Defining Hospitality

Aliya Khan, VP of design lifestyle brands at Marriott, promotes a positive lifestyle for brands and global design strategy. In 2019, she was an honoree for women in design from Hospitality Design magazine. Aliya joins host Dan Ryan to discuss her view on #hospitality and how important it is to be more open to change and face it with a positive attitude. 

Takeaways: 
 
  • Hospitality is about bringing people together from all walks of life. Sometimes you know them, sometimes you don't. It’s about experiencing new things in life with others.
  • The environment, the experience and the memory all add up to play important roles in delivering hospitality.
  • Often it can be the small things that make an experience so much more meaningful. You want to make sure all your guests' needs are met, even the small ones. It shows thoughtfulness and caring
  • You can learn so much from watching people. You’ll learn what they like and dislike and can use that to make a hospitality experience more relatable and enjoyable.
  • When you embrace change, you always see everything as an opportunity. You need to find a positive outlook and build that culture in your work and life.
  • Surround yourself with people who have the same view on change as you do. That way when you are going through change, they can help you get through it if you struggle.
  • Everything in a restaurant is designed to work together to create a memorable experience.
  • You want to celebrate the core foundational pieces of a hotel or restaurant when taking it over. You can update some things but it’s worth keeping some core things the same.

Quote of the Show:
 
2:54 “One of my grandmothers on one side of my family [I'm one of eight grandchildren] didn't have a big enough dining table for eight children and the parents that came with them. So she had this rug and we would literally, I'm not kidding, sit around that rug. We would go serve ourselves lunch and sit on the floor. Cross-legged on that rug. And I think to myself, when I think about that, I think about how it brought a group of people together, it always brought us back together.
 
So I sort of see it like a metaphor for hospitality. It brings people together. It brings you together from all over. Sometimes you know the people, sometimes you don't. But it literally is this gathering spot.”

Links:
 

Shout Outs:
 
10:28 “American Utopia” by David Byrne
14:59 Aaron Ritcher
22:05 Marriott
22:09 Arne Sorenson
28:22 Moxie
28:26 Westin
30:39 Aloft Hotels
31:51 Equinox Hotels
33:15 Heavenly Bed
36:27 Mitchell Gold
36:36 Robert Polin
36:41 Christine McGinnis
41:16 Kristina O’Neil 
44:11 Beverly Hills Hotel
44:14 St. Regis Hotel
45:24 Westin St. Francis
45:26 The Clift
45:53 Michael Mina
46:04 Larry Traxler
47:54 The Royalton
48:14 W Hotels
 Ways to Tune In: 

Creators & Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:00:00]
Dan Ryan: Today's guest promotes a positive lifestyle for brands and global design. She is a 2019 women in design honoree from hospitality design magazine. She's an incredibly valuable team player and a dear friend of mine. She is the VP of design for lifestyle brands at Marriott, ladies and gentlemen, Malia Khan.
Welcome Alia.
Aliya Khan: So nice to be here.
Dan Ryan: It's so great to have you here. I was just before we were doing the sound check and making everything go, I just, you know, I said, I'm so [00:01:00] excited for this conversation with you because I feel like it's been 15, 14 years in the making, um, from our friendship. And then, you know, all the other shared memories that we have just of like, kind of coming up in the industry together and through so many big changes and living on different sides of the country and, you know, acquisitions.
And it's just been like an incredible journey to be on with you in particular. And. I'm just so glad that we're here. So thank you.
Aliya Khan: No, thank you. It's kind of fun because you know, there's some people that, you know, you can text them anytime of day from anywhere in the world. And you could say the most random three words that would completely make sense only to them.
And you are one of those people. We have our own language, we have our own acronyms, we have our own jokes and I think it just comes from what you said. It's this, it's this life that is work and play and [00:02:00] human and real and connected. And you know, it connects to your children and indirectly, it connects to my mother because she's very invested in your carpets.
So it makes for like, it makes for a solid relationship. And I think it's also very evocative of the industry where,
Dan Ryan: when, um, I love that you brought up your mom, first of all, because just, just so everyone knows at one point Aaliyah's mom picked out, okay. Persian rug for me, carried it halfway around the world.
Alia has given it to me and it, it moves around from room to room to room. Um, right now it's in my daughter's room and we play there and have fun. I always take pictures of wherever room it's in. It's always been a really important part of our life since you've given it to us.
Aliya Khan: That's fantastic. And you know, hopefully in time and with generations, it'll continue to be a part of the Ryan household.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And actually, I wasn't thinking of doing this, but because we, [00:03:00] you know, bringing up the rug and I think in the terms of actually, as of hospitality from where you were growing up, like, how does a rug weave into weave into like that into hospitals?
Aliya Khan: It's, you know, it's, it's about gathering. So one of my grandmothers, when we, uh, on one side of my family, I'm one of eight grandchildren and she had a very big dining table.
She didn't however, have a big enough tiny table for eight children and the parents that came with them. So she had this rug and we would literally, I'm not kidding. Sit around that rug. And we would have, we would go serve ourselves lunch and sit on the floor. Cross-legged on that rug. And I think to me, when I think about that, I think about like, if brought a group of people together, it always brought us back together.
We used to nap on that rug and I think. It's that embrace it's that platform. It's that [00:04:00] thing that brings people together in our case, it was all the cousins and remains. So, um, but I sort of see it like a metaphor for hospitality. Right? It brings people together. It brings you together from all over sometimes, you know, the people, sometimes you don't.
Um, but it is literally this gathering spot, which I think is, can be very energetic and very impactful, um, for everyone, wherever was in that gathering.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And just from my experience, having this amazing rug, you know, from all the different places that we've lived over the years and the memory, it's almost like, um, like a thread through my family's growth and trajectory in life and just, um, sitting, playing it.
It's like a timestamp that I can always refer back and see that in my family. I
Aliya Khan: love that. And, you know, w when we talk about, when you talk about an experience like travel, or you talk [00:05:00] about hospitality, it takes so many different forms. And certainly it means different things to different people, but I find very quickly in my mind, I'm always referring back to a specific moment in my life.
And so, you know, the rug is your sort of timeline or thread of specific moments in a certain way. And you know, for me, travel is a thread. Um, everybody's got their own thread or their own metaphor, um, which is kind of a nice way to look back and anchor yourself to a moment of time.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And it's interesting as like, you know, I'm sure we'll talk about this more as we go, but if you think about, you know, your day job, right.
Of creating these amazing built environments where you're impacting guests that are coming through, and one of the ways to impact that. I guess one of the motivators to impact them is to have that imprint.
Aliya Khan: I feel strongly about the imprint and, you know, [00:06:00] often I find that imprint has become too tactical.
It's too much about, oh, it has to be this upholstery or it has to be that flooring. And I always ask people to kind of take many steps back and talk about the types of imprint. I want to imprint your memory in a favorable way, your life experiences in a memorable way. I would like to be able to be a small part of giving you something that you're going to reference back in your mind.
And you're going to say, you know what? I want my children to be a part of this. I want my friend to be a part of this. And so for me, it transcends just the physicality. It's the environment. It's the experience. It's the memory. All of those things. I think come with love, attention to detail, caring, really wanting someone to love the part of the experience that you spent time thinking about, you know, really kind of [00:07:00] digging deep inside you.
Like what makes people happy? You know, when you get off a plane after, I don't know, 23 hours, what is it that they're going to want? And how do we as travelers, experience makers, hosts, thinkers, find ways to deliver that in a way that it feels good. It might feel novel that people come back again and again, um, you know, we've kind of gone down the path of my mother and I'm going to continue on that for a second.
I consider her like the, the quintessential hospitality. She's not an interior designer. She does not have any technical qualifications to give her that title. But what she is as a human, who cares, and you can ask any of my friends who know her, anyone who has been to our house, she will always remember, oh, you know what, Dan likes tea.
He doesn't drink [00:08:00] coffee. Or, you know, so-and-so liked this chicken I made the last time I was, they were here. Why don't I remake it? Or so-and-so, doesn't like, you know, to sleep in a noisy room or doesn't like the air conditioning or whatever it may be. Now, these might appear like small things. But when you think about it, here's this person who actually cares about you and your wellbeing.
And when you're in her world, she's going to do everything to make sure that you have the best possible time, that you're always comfortable, that you always feel loved because somebody cares about you. And it could be as simple as, you know what doesn't like, tea only drinks, coffee, and that's top on this, right.
That comes from within. And I'm not kidding. She remembers this about everyone she doesn't know.
Dan Ryan: And I think, you know, for, in the beginning you were saying, you know, you're, you're presented with these challenges of how to make people happy. Right. [00:09:00] And maybe that's that personalization that your mom does.
Um, she's doing it from a place and an intention of making someone else happy of serving them and making sure that they're cared for. Um, as you think about like your mother's influence on you. Even your aunts and sitting around the rugs and you know, how that idea of making others happy. How does that tie into your definition of hospitality?
Aliya Khan: I think it's about like the details, really getting into things and caring about things. And it's not just, I'm going to tick a box because this is what it's going to do to get this open. It's about really thinking who are the people who are coming here? What do they want, what do they care about? What do they need?
Have they seen too much of this? Or I saw this cool thing in this city. How about I find an interesting way to bring that to you? And to me, what that is is [00:10:00] it's thoughtfulness, it's caring, it's, you know, really sort of giving a shit from inside and wanting to deliver all of that in a real. And I think that's love, right?
Why do any of us do this? We love travel. We love designing. I love people. I love watching people. I love sitting in airports and seeing how people travel and the decisions they make, or, you know, people watching on the street. And how do you take all of this peripheral stuff that you encountered day after day and use it to help you make better choices or offer like greater depth into something than just here's a bed.
Here's a shower. There's your coffee, you know, have a nice day.
Dan Ryan: I love that. You said love of people and just watching people. I, I recently just saw, um, David Byrne's American utopia for like the third time and I really want to go see it a fourth time. I'm [00:11:00] addicted. Oh, good. I will take you up on that.
Actually. I want to get a whole crew together and we'll do it. So that actually I have a note in my, my little note capture thing, it's a project to be done. Um, but in it, he says, you know, one of the most enjoyable things by all humans is to and what he loves more than anything, but I think it transcends everyone.
And the most fascinating thing to watch is other humans. And whether they're eating a bag of potato chips or riding a bicycle, or just being, watching other people is the greatest thing. And actually moving up to Connecticut from New York city. That's one thing that I miss the most is just not like I'm talking to every person, although Annabel would say she misses that I don't talk to just random people on the street anymore.
It's just being around that energy of others and love. I can relate
Aliya Khan: to that. I mean, I, as you know, I moved from DC from New York to DC and you know, certainly DC is a city and interesting and has [00:12:00] its own layering. But when I go back to New York, I mean, some of what I love is I never take the subway and never take an Uber.
I walk everywhere. There's no bigger joy than walking down the street in Manhattan and see, what are people eating? What are they drinking? What are they doing? Oh, okay. I think we're in a slightly better place. COVID the master kind of off. And it's just, you learn so much from seeing people, particularly when they are going from point a to point B.
And I love that. I, you know, I live for it. I, I could sit in an airport and people watch for hours. You know, all my, my friends will read very important books and do very useful things with their time. I'm just like, watch the people you learn so much from the people.
Dan Ryan: So. One of the things that fascinates me, the most of all these conversations I'm having, but in particular with design people, is how, you know, you take that idea of love of people, or how do you make other people happy?
And these are very [00:13:00] nebulous kind of ideas, and I'm always just amazed and awestruck at how you can take those ideas and turn them into concrete, binary, tangible things. Right. And I think a lot of what you do, you do and you've done in your vocation is how do you as communicating these ideas as a brand and turning them into reality?
Like, how did you, how did you find that path? How did you develop this superpower?
Aliya Khan: Oh, it's going to take many more hours than we have, but, um, I think there's a couple of things that, uh, become kind of interesting and important to think about. I think the first is whatever you do in life. When you have you ever been in a presentation and you've had the one person come up and they they're telling you something, you know, they may be selling you a water filtration system, but [00:14:00] when they believe in it and they love it and there's enthusiasm and passion and commitment to a message and how you engage a community, it's so believable and plausible and people walk out of there wanting to buy the whole thing.
Versus this is what I do. This is how it is, you know, take it or leave it. It has to be this way because I'm telling you, it has to be this. Now in today's world, particularly I find with media what it is, exposure, what it is. I mean, you know, the entire world has been stuck at home for 22 months, and yet somehow we've continued to travel in our imaginations.
You know, we have watched movies, we have read books, we have absorbed all of this stuff, and I think it goes back to the idea of love. But then secondarily, when you take all of that that's passion, right? And when you can bring that passion and use it to [00:15:00] influence people to come along on the ride with you, I think that's far more successful than this is my brand.
This is how we're going to do it, and you have to follow the rules. So that's sort of at a higher level, but I think it also comes back to. I started this whole journey by accident. You know, I literally got an internship at Starwood by accident. Um, you know, everybody knows Aaron Richter and I was, it was, I had come out of class and I was with, um, his girlfriend at the time.
And he came and joined us and he was like, Hey, you know, I need someone to come and do some drawings for a couple of months. Why don't you join me? And I'll help you figure out an employment thing while we're at it. Next day, I get the phone call. This is Starwood hotels and resorts coming. We believe you're joining us on Monday.
And you know, that was almost 20 years ago. But I think the point of all of this was right out of the gates that fluke led me to this community of people. [00:16:00] And this community of people was eclectic. They were interesting. I mean, it was such a mishmash and I mean, you know, all of them. And at the time I sort of thought, oh, this is cool.
This is like an eclectic bunch of people. They have different life experiences. Some of them intended to be here in their careers, others fell into it, and we all kind of just co-existed and inspired each other. And we would travel together and we would eat together and we would do this God awful commute together, which now I think back was probably one of the most enriching things to be able to, you know, ride Metro north with people that inspire you.
And I thought it was normal. I thought everybody has this. And now, you know, 20 odd years later, I realize it was not normal. It was the absolute, it was an absolute gift of unique. And I bring it up because in spending time with each other and learning [00:17:00] from each other. You learn a couple of things you learn about the power of expensiveness, of opening, your mind to new experiences, the value of influence rather than this is how it has to be, um, the comfort to learn from each other and teach each other.
But to do it all in a way that we always felt like our little pod, um, how do each other's back? And we did, I mean, we pulled off some incredible stuff with limited resources, just because everyone would roll up their sleeves and dive into what was happening. And some people were better at other things and learning from each other and helping each other and growing yourself a little bit in the bargain.
Um, that was all that experience. I mean, I lovingly call it Starwood university. You know,
Dan Ryan: you have like, I love that you call it a pod as well, because. In our industry and I'm sure in [00:18:00] every industry, but there's all these kind of little pod birthing zones. If you will, where, you know, you have these really talented people coming together, burning the midnight oil, creating these great things, and then life happens.
There's acquisitions, there's mergers, there's a financial crisis. There's a, uh, uh, what are we going through now? A pandemic. There we go. Um, and it okay if it causes those that let a core of people that did these great things to kind of spread their wings and float out and, and germinate in other areas.
And that pod in particular of you guys from Starwood is really impressive to me. Not only because of. I have a shared experience and kind of came up at the same time, but like, you all have gone on to do some pretty awesome and incredible things,
Aliya Khan: you know, it's, it's so two things to that. I think that was the pod.
But then there was the part that, you know, you were part of that, that, that ring [00:19:00] that kind of helped the pod. You Katie daily. I mean, Joan Cardi, God bless her. How many times have we texted her in the middle of the night, asking her to help us with the most random things and she texts back. So it was this group
Dan Ryan: of, and you can probably send her just three, three words, like you said earlier, and she totally gets it.
Like you're on a telepathic wavelength.
Aliya Khan: Well, you've got a girlfriend if I'm understanding this correctly. But I think the thing of it also was because we all know each other and we knew people, everyone had strengths and everyone was good at everything. But the best part is it was no one ever said no.
The answer was never, you can't do this. The answer is like, all right, never done that before, but let's figure this out. And I really believe that that ability to be in a safe space where you could experiment and try things and test things and bounce things off of people, I think just gives [00:20:00] you, gives you a little more confidence to maybe continue to try that and push for that.
And, you know, help and support comes from many different ways. And everybody had a piece of that.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And so to tap into the love that you keep saying, and, you know, to bring it back to the water filtration guy or gal, I think what you were talking about is, okay, so the water just to use water filtration, it's this is what I do, right.
And again, this is the whole thing it's like, I think we've really tapped into why you're doing we're re we're very. With the why. And if you think about people in love and, and the why with some of the people that you mentioned as well, like we totally get people. We see where they could be a good fit also.
And I, we joke about it. Like we should start a, a recruiting and staffing agency, because like, we're always thinking about who they are and not what they can do, but [00:21:00] why they would be a good fit. How did you get so good at matchmaking?
Aliya Khan: Yeah. Dan, you actually are the master of this, this notion of what can I, as an individual do to shorten somebody's journey, right?
And again, that goes to spirit that goes to love. It's where you're seeing people for what they are very good at. What makes them happy. There's something pretty joyful about, you know, causing synergy or bringing like like-minded people together or helping solve somebody solve a problem. And again, I think it goes back to the core spirit of hospitality.
You know, this transcends just this thing of a place to stay. This is about a life. This is about welcoming. This is about thoughtfulness. This is about maybe sometimes finding the partners to help you do things differently. Knowing that [00:22:00] when there is an invested community of people or an invested pod, that outcome will always be good.
You know, it's because it comes first from spirit and intention.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I'm also very excited in that pot idea and spirit and intention, as far as your migration from Starbucks. To Marriott and being down there. And then if you think about the pods that have developed there, and I think it's also a really exciting time for where you are at Marriott now, too, sadly with the passing of, of Arnie and new leadership, but also moving from like the headquarters, the fortress, the mothership, if you will, to a new location, um, in Bethesda, downtown, uh, easier access, like how are you seeing the evolution of your pods and bringing new people into the pods and with this whole movement and, and new direction.
I mean, it's a really [00:23:00] exciting time in our industry and just in our industry, but also specifically at Marriott in particular,
Aliya Khan: I think, you know, it's, it's a couple of things, um, There are some people who fear change and there are others who embrace it. And when you embrace change, you always see everything as opportunity.
And, you know, it's pretty inspiring to be around people day to day. You know, the person who leads our group, he came from Disney and, you know, he'll tell you he's not a bricks and mortar person. Um, but what it shows to me is when you come with a mindset of embracing change and you come with a mindset of.
Um, this is going to be a good thing. And you start to build your pod to support the good thing or find the good thing or grow the good thing. I think happy accidents happen along the way. And it just kind of becomes more cultural, you [00:24:00] know, I mean, by all accounts and meet with there, isn't one person in the world will argue this.
The pandemic has been awful, right? People have been home, they have been isolated, they have been lonely. They have, you know, I've so many amazing people on my team who had homeschool their children and looked after elderly parents NPS brought their eight plus plus game to work. So now we're hopefully all sort of sliding out of this.
We hope God willing. Um, Promise an opportunity to look towards, right. Um, being back together again in an office, what does that look like? Where especially lucky, because you know, we're moving into a new office, so it's a, it's going to be, I think the joy of being back together again, but joy being back together, again in a new experience and doing it together and building that sort of emotional culture that will live within those walls, as everybody comes back together and finds their new [00:25:00] comfort level around, you know, day-to-day engagement, there's travel look like, you know, trade shows, um, field trips, PIP walks, all of those things, right?
At some point we're all going to get back out there and all of this. And if you're with a group of people who can help you navigate it, who understand that change sometimes is a little bit of an adjustment. People who will step up and help you through stuff that maybe is hard for you because they're in your pod.
I think all of that additively is exciting to me. It's very exciting to me, you know,
Dan Ryan: as you were saying that I was thinking that as we're coming out of this pandemic and all the changes that Marriott and being in a new physical space, if we go back to the beginning of the conversation and thinking about how you can create these physical spaces to impact people positively, like we're going to be coming out of this knee Deere [00:26:00] kind of a new wave coming up and you're going to be in a new place.
It's like a tremendous opportunity for change and regeneration. And
Aliya Khan: you know, it's like everything that we do today, it's like, it's going to be a little bit different. You know, when you think about it, look at the industry are. Owner's going to renovate their hotels, maybe the way they used to maybe, maybe not, you know, you want them to be able to, but if they're not able, what can we do to maybe help some of that?
You know, how are we going to share all of our new ideas in a way that people can use them usefully without being overwhelmed by them? You know, if I'm going to show up in someone's office and hand them, you know, a 70 page drawing set and, uh, you know, a thousand page spec book and be like, Hey, this is what you have to do to renovate this hotel.
I'm not sure that's going to fly anymore. So what do we do as we start to think about inventive ways to keep product fresh, to keep it interesting, uh, to keep it relevant, [00:27:00] to keep it appropriate to the brand that it represents, but do it in a way that it doesn't overwhelm and scare people. And I think that takes the ability to almost literally throw out a spec book and think of.
You know, what's it going to be? And so,
Dan Ryan: yeah, as you said, brand there and thinking about that, I went back in time in my mind. I don't know, two or three years ago, maybe three and a half. I don't remember exactly, but when Marriott acquired Starwood, I don't know how it went from X brands to a hell of a lot more brands.
And one of the things I was, I was concerned about, it was like, oh my God, how are they going to make all this, all these different brands? There's so many, how many are there
Aliya Khan: now?
Dan Ryan: 33rd. Okay. How are they gonna make these 30 brands kind of differentiate and specific and as just an outsider, looking in that kind of, that matrix that you guys [00:28:00] developed?
Um, it was so impressive to me from a lifestyle to luxury to, I don't even want to mess with it all, but the way that. I feel like you guys put six months or a year into thinking about what all of them are. And then once you figured out what they are, you figured out, how do they fit in to this whole picture?
And that, to me, I just don't know how you guys did that. That was so impressive. Like tell us, you have to think
Aliya Khan: about it though, right? Imagine that there are 30 children, there are 30 siblings and yes, they might have the same parents and yet they might have, have some of the similar life experiences. They all still have 30 unique quirks.
And I see this as an exercise in celebrating those quirks. Right? What are those things that make Moxie ownable that no one else is doing and what is Western doing and why is that interesting and why is that relatable and who is it relatable to? I think, you know, the biggest [00:29:00] mistake that anybody makes.
In this world is when you're trying to be everything to everyone. You don't need to be there 30 of us buying the one that's right for you and let's do it properly. You know, if
Dan Ryan: I think with those quirks that you're talking about, as you think about for each brand, it's almost as if you're creating a unique culture and language for each of those.
So, okay. Give us an example, like when you identify. How do you differentiate and build a culture around that?
Aliya Khan: I think it's more of the guest almost identify support. Like we find like certain guests or certain, you know, psychographics gravitate to some brands over the other and you kind of dig into it and say, all right, what is it about this guest?
What do they love? What do they love about the spend? Why are they coming here? And then how do we start to put a clearer sort of lens or filter around it? I think, you know, Western is a really good example of exactly [00:30:00] that. And you know, this guest who is the healthy, active, and, you know, while they're out on the road, What can we be doing from an experiential standpoint and welcoming them thoughtfully?
Um, so that they kind of feel like there's relatable product experience, passion and programming. And I say Western also, because it's so dynamic, right. Wellness alone in the last 22 months, what wellness has become for everyone working from home? You know, what does that mean? What are you eating? What are you drinking?
How are you working out? How are you sleeping? Sleeping, sleep is important. And what are those things that we are hearing and learning and seeing that if been evolving over a large amount of time, but especially now in the last 18 months and 22 months. And how do we pull that in to what we do for our guests now?
What we've do for that guest is for that guest, we would be so [00:31:00] incredibly remiss if we tried to force some of that thinking into say an aloft hotels or Moxie, where the guest is very different, you know, they're not looking for those things. And so I think the magic comes in listening, watching who are these guests that go to these 30 brands?
What is it about those 30 friends that appeals to them as individuals? You know, certainly some of it is location and price and, you know, et cetera, but really digging into the philosophy of what is it that is so right for that guest in that hotel. Um, and then kind of digging into that, literally sitting and watching them and seeing what it is that they do and how do they travel and what do they want and what did they eat and how do they work?
And trying to put a little bit of experiential, um, detail around that
Dan Ryan: coming out of the pandemic, I've been hearing [00:32:00] two words more and more and more. Um, you mentioned one just now wellness and sustainability is the other one. And I think these are actually two real silver linings. And you also, you mentioned Aaron Richter before, because I think what they're doing, what's really interesting at Equinox hotels is in the idea of wellness for their hotel.
It's like about restoration and sleep, right. Or like I, and I'm sure it's more than that, but. This idea of wellness is really exciting to me because it's been around a long time. I think it's been misappropriated. But when you think about taking wellness in an Inn and kind of forcing it into a built environment, how, how do you take that wellness idea?
Then you can use Western or any other one, and like really pull on that from what you're watching and seeing with your guests, but to what the final execution is.
Aliya Khan: I think, you know, there's no one answer, easy answer. I think something [00:33:00] like wellness, first of all, it exists on every level, right? Wellness is for the individual it's for the family.
It's for your pod. Um, it's for your mind, it's for your physical body. Now, you know, some of that is one thing translates to the other and vice versa. I think there's plenty out there for us all to absorb, react and respond to. But I mean, to me, what I even love is like, think about the Western heavenly bed.
I mean, God, it's been watched over almost 20 years, right. Having these shower at heavenly bed.
Dan Ryan: I joke about that because in a way I think that well in a sad way, I think that the heavenly bed might have been one of the most innovative things in hospitality in the past 20 years. And it's a bed like that's where we go to sleep.
Aliya Khan: It's true. You know, but now like, think about it, like the art of sleep alone, like you should do it, or you should do a chat on that. You [00:34:00] know, we, we know people who make incredible bedsheets that allow, you know, temperature control and how you sleep. And they ease that journey. There is so much around lighting around sound around scent, around posture, ergonomics.
I mean, you could keep peeling this onion. And I think that there would be enough for everyone to go around it's, but there's, there's so much there and that's just wellness or that's just sleep. I mean, there's a million other sentiments thoughts, experiences that a person goes through in the course of travel.
There's enough for everybody to take something and really, but really kind of drill down into it. And what does it mean and what does it represent?
Dan Ryan: You know, I'm looking at that bowl of, uh, matches behind you. And I remember you told me about. That collection you have there, but if you were to just look at their over there, look at one of those matchbooks [00:35:00] over, over whichever side, which one of those matchbooks is like a.
Enjoyable and evocative memory of hospitality.
Aliya Khan: It's every single one. Like if you want to play that game, I can tell you I can pull and tell you who I lived with, where I was, how we felt in the moment. Um,
Dan Ryan: all right. So look over there. There's a re uh, there's a Stripe red, white, and green one to the right.
I think of the pink one. I think, I don't know if you're
Aliya Khan: yeah, it is. And it is a, um, an Italian restaurant in New York city. And I remember going there for dinner with my uncle. Um, he lives in North Carolina and he would come into New York once every so often. And he'd be like, Hey kiddo, come have dinner.
And, you know, I have a visual of it. It was a very sort of cheery room. It was cold and there was a good Amber light and good wine, but it's like a good experience. It's like, I'm smiling. Right? [00:36:00] I've had many such experiences with him, but it takes me back immediately. You know, when I hang up, I'm going to go through all of them and I'm going to relive all of those memories, but it's like matchbooks from all over the world.
Um, and truly, like I would say almost 25, 30 years of collecting matchbooks.
Dan Ryan: That's how I love it. And then, uh, how about the pink one to the left of the red, white and green one. I think it's pink
Aliya Khan: or red. The pink one is, oh my God. This is going to make you laugh. Just make me laugh. I think. It's those Caminos and it's the one on park avenue.
And it's funny. I have two, but I, I will tell you this particular one was, um, it's a funny story. Uh, Mitchell gold. When I started at Starwood Mitchell gold Mitchell himself took us to [00:37:00] dinner and Robert pullin was our sort of contract at the time. It was Christine Mitchell, Robert Polin myself. Those Caminos had just opened the one on crack and.
You know, it was like, it had just opened and they were so generous. They wanted to take us to this new cool place. Um, and there was so much excitement and this was from that moment. And then ironically, I moved to this neighborhood, um, much after the fact, but at a time when the, you know, people stopped giving out matchbooks, that's the other thing people stopped giving matchbooks, not many will do them
Dan Ryan: anymore.
And then they would give out jewels.
Aliya Khan: Now they don't even do that.
Dan Ryan: Interesting. Just on just looking at you and like from the Italian one, there was this warm, like loving, just nurturing, nurturing experience. And then, you know, the, the dos Caminos, it was like raw, pure excitement. '
Aliya Khan: cause, [00:38:00] you know, it's people that are still in my life.
It was, and I was new to this whole hospitality thing, right. Like, oh, wait, you mean, are people who'd like to take us to dinner? Why. Oh, how nice, how generous, but then you actually hang out with them and you realize like they become your friends. They stay in your life. I, you know, coincidentally, and I will tell Robert, this he's coming to dinner tonight.
I'm going to show him this matchbook. And I'm going to tell him we had this conversation because you know, it, it goes back to sort of where we started. None of this is a job. This is a love. And at some point the work and the life, part of it all blurs into this one thing. Um, I really believe that the pod in my formative years was instrumental in setting that, um, you know, even now, today, like, as I like navigate [00:39:00] Marriott, There are, there are a lot of people who I respect immensely and they're so disciplined and they're able to compartmentalize their lives in very healthy ways that I think I admire truly.
Um, I am not that
Dan Ryan: I
Aliya Khan: love it all too much. It's not that they love it any less. They're just a lot more discipline than I am. So
Dan Ryan: I'm curious, like, let's pretend you guys acquired or developed a new brand or wanted to position one of the existing brands. Would it be a worthwhile exercise to envision someone in their office or room a week later, looking at the matchbook that they got from that property and what they felt.
Aliya Khan: You know, um, it's interesting that you asked that because when I was in graduate school, one of the classes I took was around, um, I want to say it was called [00:40:00] dining by design or something. And the premise of it was, was that you had to design an entire restaurant project over the course of the semester.
And in the course of that timeframe, you also got to meet different designers in their restaurants that they had just designed. You know, we met, I, that's how I met Tony chief for the first time, et cetera. So, and what I loved about that was how everything had to communicate. You know, it, wasn't just about this as a box where you sit and you eat menu, font, match, book, and soap.
Um, how all of these tiny details of love have to come together to paint a bigger picture. I mean, look at Africa. Remember when they opened. Yeah. And then you'd go into the bathroom and there was those stacks of the tiny little soaps, right. And they were so beautifully displayed. They were functional objects that were beautifully explained, displayed that were wrapped [00:41:00] in a particular way.
And I mean, they could have put a pumper soap on the counter. It would have fulfilled the same tactical thing. A very good question. I, if I had to guess probably 17 ish years ago, Tony, I was talking to Greg earlier in the week. Uh, and we were reminiscing a little bit.
Dan Ryan: Um, so around what would that be like
Aliya Khan: now after that it was after that, I want to say a all 4 0 5 would be my guests.
We should take, we should take a better.
Dan Ryan: Well, I, I, cause I have a specific memory with Kristina O'Neill there. It was really funny. I'm an early adopter of just tech and stuff. And I think it was 2006 or something. And I just gotten the first iPhone and I remember sitting there with her and William there and there were a couple other people and I was like, wow, check out this crazy thing.
And I remember sitting there with her [00:42:00] in particular and typing on a non Blackberry keyboard, right. It was like revolutionary and writing. The quick brown Fox jumped over the lazy dog or something where I think that incorporates. Letter. And I just remember that it was super funny. I have so many great memories at that restaurant.
I
Aliya Khan: think anyone who has worked or live in New York city at that point in time has at least one memory. But I think, you know, going back to what you asked, what I love is like, they care about the little details and that's love. I mean, they have those, like, we used to have those like, um, library card drawers, where they would keep like menus and things like that.
Like who does that? Only someone who loves it.
Dan Ryan: Yup. Oh gosh. That was amazing. I kind of get back to it. You know, it actually made me also think, um, recently I've only been to Indocin a handful of times, but
Aliya Khan: it's so [00:43:00] good. It's so iconic every time
Dan Ryan: that wallpaper. So that was the amazing thing I've been in there before and just like, okay, it's a party or we're having dinner.
But if something was happening and I was sitting at the bar while they were organizing the table or something, I was just talking to the bartender and saying, Hey, when did this place open? Cause I forgot the whole story. I think it was like 1984 or 83
Aliya Khan: sounds about right. And I
Dan Ryan: said, is everything the same here?
I like the wallpaper in particular. He said, everything is unchanged, the wallpaper, the light fixtures, the ball. And it is just like it's. So on-point everything like they don't need to change a goddamn thing
Aliya Khan: there. No. And I actually think that if they did it with the little slack religious almost, but you know, think about it.
Like when you think about trend and how suddenly there was a point in time where everybody was doing the green and pink room and everyone was doing the big abstraction of the leaf. And every time I see one and don't get me wrong, there's some incredible, incredible, uh, products [00:44:00] that were sort of evocative of that.
And every time I would see when I would think to myself, ah, in the chain
Dan Ryan: and when I see that, when I see those big leaf. And this goes into like to quote bono. Every artist is a cannibal. Every poet is a thief. To me, it goes back to the Beverly Hills hotel and those huge banana leaves, but that's a great place to be inspired from and make that your own if you will, because they did it effectively.
And
Aliya Khan: then you're going to take me into this other sort of down this other rabbit hole of how do you honor some of those things, right? The Beverly Hills hotel is chronic, the St. Regis New York. I conic you think about people who have had big moments in their lives, you know, proposing to someone, um, you know, taking I, when I was re renovating, working on the renovation of the St Regis New York, I remember there was somebody at the bar who said, please don't ruin this place.
[00:45:00] I used to come here with my grandfather when I first came home, drinking age and. People in life, have I, chronic memories associated to iconic places. So how do we, as an industry, continue to keep them fresh and renovate them and on-point, and relatable and functional and clean and all that other good stuff without violating the beautiful memories and the love that is associated with the memories.
And, you know, it's, it's a fine line. It's a, it's a little bit of a dance. How much is too much, you know, we've all been to places that, you know, get renovated and then they become something completely different. And you're like, oh my God. But it was so good before what happened.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I think, as you're saying that I'm getting teleported right back into the late nineties, early two thousands in San Francisco with the Western St.
Francis in particular and the Clift. And I remember. The Western St. Francis went under a lobby renovation, and they had those huge [00:46:00] Redwood columns that were just flooded with, I dunno, Doric ionic capitals and a restaurant tour. Michael Mina, I think moved in there and painted them white. And it was like front page Chronicle, like scandal.
Why would they paint these white? Um, and it was a simple thing, but it was like a violation right. With the people of San Francisco. But, and then you go to the Clift hotel, which had, you know, its storied four seasons. Incredible. Um, and then I think Larry Traxler was involved in this one was Schrager when they took it over and they went so off into another place, but kept so many elements that were the foundational core.
And I think like, I think they were Redwood panels in the room that they put this moving art. So they didn't paint over the Redwood. Whereas at the Western St. Francis, they painted it over. And I would say that the departure from the Clift was probably more extreme than that of St. Francis, but they somehow, they were [00:47:00] able to figure out what those core foundational elements were.
And it was, um, it was celebrated.
Aliya Khan: It's all about balance, right? How much is too much. And it's funny when you were talking about the cliff, like I loved the way they layered the juxtaposition. You knew what was old, you knew what was new, but they were both kind of talking to each other and then, you know, sitting there and you see the oil or you see the oil paintings and you see the eyes following you across the room and, you know, cleverness can be so light handed and yet, so, so impactful.
And I, I love and respect when people are able to do that because, you know, we enjoy.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Oh man. I got to talk to Larry about that because that they really, the, the amount of celebration that was there was consternation before the opening, because, you know, they're like Stan Bromley was the GM there forever four seasons.
And it was like this incredible, incredible hotel. [00:48:00] And so there was like, oh, what's it going to be? There was all this anticipation I remember. And then it just, they checked all the boxes and they hit that thing out of the park with a major reposition.
Aliya Khan: And that's the thing. Right? You have these experiences that have been so formative in the history of hotels, think about the Royalton number and how people use to sashay down that catwalk.
And yes, the catwalk is still there, but how it was really about the people and the space was just a set. It was the scene.
Dan Ryan: And actually that excitement that's right there in that, in that. 'cause that was w hotels like launching out as well from your pod Ville. And like, that was another super exciting time.
And I feel like, I feel like we have, I feel like we're due and maybe this uptick is that exciting time that's happening, but I haven't, maybe it was just my age as I was going through it, but I haven't seen that level of excitement [00:49:00] for everyone, um, in a really long time. And I, and I really hope it's coming.
Aliya Khan: You know, I think some of it is our age. Like I, like you said, w and I thought immediately, right after the Royalton, my next thought was w union square. And it wasn't the largest living room, but let me tell you, you would squash your rear end onto that tiny little wooden window seat, if you could get a space, because it was just.
There was something about the energy of the space that was so magnetic. And, you know, you'd walk down the street and you'd look in the window and, you know, half of us, when we'd go there, it's like the pod would go there. No one was making enough money to have, you know, $22 martinis at the time didn't stop us.
But you know, there was magnetism and allure. And I hope that maybe with what I sort of optimistically calling it, this sort of pallet cleanser that has happened over the 22 months, like maybe we've all reset a little [00:50:00] bit around what is important to us and what is important to travelers and what are the things that people miss the most when they were home.
Um, and maybe that's going to help us as a collective, maybe peel out some of the noise that perhaps isn't needed in.
Dan Ryan: And, you know, as I forgot the w union square to also think about that energy, that somehow that was palpable and there, right. It was a real thing. And I'm curious, like, is it possible that that energy was, you know, speaking of Indocin earlier, but like from a Max's Kansas city or union square cafe of that whole like rockstar art kind of cool thing that somehow managed to wind up in that small living room.
Aliya Khan: Yeah. I mean, look, I think it was super relevant to, I think it's placement was key. It was also like, it was at a time when hospitality, we went from being. A very specific [00:51:00] thing to something else. I mean, you know, you we've all been to the hotels where the check-in was this long, beautiful grand, you know, long desk.
And the agent was always on the other side and you were on one side and there was no engagement. And the lobby was literally, I mean, from my childhood, I remember being the place where you waited for your taxi, or if you were in different rooms, you all kind of collected in the lobby before you went out, you didn't collect in the living room to have a cocktail or two before you head out or have your nightcap before you went up to your room.
And, you know, I think what hotels were have evolved. And I think now the question is, what's next? What are we going to do next? You know, because you're right. We are do.
Dan Ryan: And that's a great question. As far as like a segue of like, what are what's, what are you most excited about right now? What's exciting you about the future?
Aliya Khan: I think on a very basic human level, [00:52:00] I am just so excited to travel. Um, I miss I miss travel. I really do. And I miss food from all parts of the world. And I want to see all of my friends who are all over the world and I feel this is important because a lot of what inspires and drives me comes from the good fortune of being able to have these experiences, to be able to get on a plane and go and have the, you know, amazing Damiano pool in Bangkok that you know, everyone's going to tell you don't need it.
You're going to get sick, but you eat it. You don't get sick. You love it. And your relationship to a place is reinforced by what you smell, what you see, what you hear, what you touch and. You know, photos can only carry you so far. Instagram can only carry you so far, and I'm ready to kind of get back into all of that and see how I feel about travel in the course of it.
You know, [00:53:00] um, I used to get on a plane and go to Dubai for three days and I would think nothing of it. And then I come back and now it's like, well, there's a little bit of planning. There's a little bit of protocol. There's a little bit of, you know, anticipation, but then when you're in, then it's like, God, I've been through all this to get here.
Now I really want to hang out here and spend a little more time doing that and absorbing that. And so I think how we, as an entity travel, move relate over the next few months and years will be interesting. And I think informative to what we then do as we start to shape experiences.
Dan Ryan: I think you just made me think of this.
Well, it's not great. It's actually upsetting, but like I just connected the dots on something where, um, the experience of travel and the impact we all get it. It used to, it used to be really frictionless and easy. Now there's this, all this extra [00:54:00] planning and thinking and the what ifs it's, it's made it more difficult.
Go have an impact and go have an experience, not just for yourself, but also, you know, for all the travelers that like to travel and impact others or get impacted, come back and impact them around them. And I just, I want that friction to go
Aliya Khan: it's it's, you know what it is, it's taken away the spontaneity, you can't wake up in the morning and say, oh, you know what, I'm going to London tonight.
Uh, because you now have to scramble and you have to do certain things. And look, I remain optimistic that we will get to a point where this, some of this will level set and we will get back to some semblance of ease of travel. Um, it's obviously going to be a little bit of a journey, but yes, it has taken away.
The I'm just going to do this. You know, I have a, here's my debit card. Here's my passport off. I go, granted that won't happen for a little bit, but I think it's coming. People are ready. People are dying to get out there, you know, [00:55:00] knowing that. Perhaps business travel is going to take a little bit longer to return.
People now have cabin fever. They're like, you know what? I'm in home for too long. I need to get out. I need to go to a beach. I need to go somewhere. I need to, I need some culture that isn't my everyday. So the human desire I think is there. And I think we're all just going to do it in whatever ways we're able.
And I think it's going to teach us all a lot more about how we travel and move through the world in the coming time.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, I think about as you're, as you're saying, thinking about one of the ways that we would educate our kids aside from school is we would drag them all over the world. We would, and we want them to experience and see as much as they can and act.
And I hadn't thought about it until like right this second, but that friction from what Alexis and my goal it was, or wasn't is to raise the kids. As much experience as possible. And as they're getting older, [00:56:00] because they don't stay little forever, you know, they don't want to be around us as much all the time.
And I feel like the world is robbed. My kids have this two years of experience.
Aliya Khan: They robbed your kids of two years of experience. But I think what it has offered your children is maybe a new resilience and maybe not something that I think any parent would want for their children, but I think they're all going to be a lot smarter, a lot more flexible.
I mean, Dan, I think about like how my calendar was so specifically orchestrated for six months and the idea of pivot or change. Nope, Nope, Nope. Nope. It's in the book. It has to happen. And now it's like, you know, for so long when I, and I believe children are a part of this have woken up and said, all right, today, we're going to school.
We're not going to school today. This is happening today. That's happening. And I think there's something. There's a lesson in here about moving away from some of the [00:57:00] rigidity that we had before, because we had to, because we told ourselves we had to, and maybe being a little bit more fluid and empathetic and listening and adaptable than we might have been before.
So, yes, I agree that, you know, two years of not being able to enjoy that sort of stimulus that comes from traveling, I think it has taught people, other things. I mean, you know, I think you and I talked about this, like even the ritual of sitting down to dinner and cleaning up and what that looks like, and those are things that maybe you and I perhaps were raised with, but there's a whole generation where that wasn't happening anymore.
And so sitting back down to dinner and talking about your day and connecting as humans and not being on your device, and yes, it's horrible that it took a global pandemic to get us here. I think there are things that are going to come out of this that will make your children [00:58:00] much smarter than we were that's for sure.
Dan Ryan: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. It's all about the different experiences and being adaptable. And you know, it's funny that you, you know, talking about kids and stuff. If you were to go back in time to your auntie's house on the rug and you, and as you, and you see the little version of you on the rug, drinking tea, eating something, hanging out, laughing, and you sat down next to your little self.
What advice do you give yourself?
Aliya Khan: Don't take any of it for granted, like to be surrounded, to know that whether you are physical or not, you are always surrounded by people. You love. Don't take it for granted, invest in it, you know, sitting around the rug as children. It was like a simple thing. You know, we were sitting there together.
Um, the pod at Starwood was its own version of that circle. [00:59:00] Uh, you know, through the pandemic, the people who have called and made an effort to stay connected, to check in, you know, couldn't do it physically, but that didn't stop people from wanting to connect. And I don't believe that you can take any of that for granted, you know, the love, the love of what we do the love of caring for each other, the love of listening and wanting to be listened to.
I think all of those are just very real human things. And I think how they exhibit themselves changes over time and certainly over the last few months, But it's there. And so invest in it from your heart because you love it because it will give back to you in ways that you couldn't even imagine.
Dan Ryan: I love that.
Take nothing for granted. Good. That's great advice for you.
Aliya Khan: It is. I, you know, I'm working on it. Um, [01:00:00] you'll have to do, or 10 years in 10 years. Where are we now?
Dan Ryan: Oh yeah, there will be, there will be. Um, Hey Alia, I just want to say I'm grateful for our friendship to know you and to also just have this time to like, just talk, so thank you very much.
Where can people find
Aliya Khan: you? You can email me. I can. Do you want me to say my email or should I
Dan Ryan: give it to your
Aliya Khan: email? As you know, I am terrible with picking up the phone. Instagram is fine. I'll use K I think that thing or LinkedIn, LinkedIn, Instagram email, anything, because I won't call you back. I, you know, and
Dan Ryan: I know sometimes you'll call me back and I love it when you call me back because
Aliya Khan: you, because you shamed me into my, like, into how it takes, you know, investing back into the [01:01:00] relationship in a way that is pleasurable for you.
Dan Ryan: Well, I appreciate it when my phone rings and it's you, I get very excited.
Aliya Khan: That's very sweet,
Dan Ryan: but I do want to say thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Aliya Khan: Thank you for having.
Dan Ryan: Uh, and I also want to thank our listeners. Thank you for listening to us. And hopefully this conversation with Ali has changed your idea on what it's like to give, receive hospitality, also designed for it.
And if you have, if it has, please pass it along to your friends, we love the growth in listenership. Thank you everyone. And we'll check you next time.