Why You’re Not Motivated (And What Actually Works)

🎙️ Episode 46 – Why You’re Not Motivated (And What Actually Works)

Most men think they fail at their goals because they’re lazy or undisciplined.

That’s wrong.

In this episode of the Lion Counseling Podcast, Mark Odland and Zack Carter break down the three real reasons men struggle with motivation—and why forcing discipline usually backfires. Drawing from real client stories, CBT principles, and practical coaching tools, this conversation moves beyond hype and into strategies that actually create momentum and staying power.

Instead of burning out on New Year’s resolutions, this episode will help you understand why motivation fails and how to rebuild it from the inside out.

In this episode, you’ll learn:
The 3 core reasons men don’t follow through on goals
Why starting “too big” kills motivation before it starts
The 25% Rule for building momentum (even when you feel stuck)
How forgetting—not laziness—derails most goals
Why “shoulds” drain motivation and what to replace them with
A powerful values-based framework for sustainable motivation
How successful men plateau—and how to restart growth without burnout

🎁 Get a free copy of Mark’s book
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/subscribe/

🎧 Prefer audio-only?
Listen to the podcast here:
👉 https://lioncounselingpodcast.transistor.fm

📞 Want help applying this to your own life?
Book a free consult with Mark or Zack:
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

📚 Mark’s Books
Escape the Cage
Taming the Tiger
Available here: https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

👕 Lion Counseling Merch
👉 https://ttw5i6-0j.myshopify.com

💬 Comment Question:
Which of the three hits closest for you right now—too hard, forgetting, or not actually wanting it?

About the Lion Counseling Podcast
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men break free from anxiety, burnout, trauma, and self-doubt so they can become the men God created them to be. Hosted by Mark Odland, LMFT and Certified EMDR Therapist, alongside counselor and coach Zack Carter, the show blends psychology, faith, and practical tools for real-life change.

Creators and Guests

Host

Mark Odland

Founder of Lion Counseling, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Certified EMDR Therapist

Host

Zack Carter

Zack Carter is a Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling LLC.

What is Lion Counseling Podcast?

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.

Mark Odland: 00:01

Everyone to the Lion Counseling Podcast. I'm Mark Odland, founder of Lion Counseling and certified EMDR therapist, and I'm joined by Zach Carter, counselor and coach. Our mission is to help men to break free, to heal deep and become Lions they were created to be. Most people think they fail at goals because they're lazy or undisciplined. That's wrong.

Mark Odland: 00:23

There are three main reasons men don't accomplish their goals and we see it all the time in our practice. It's too hard. They forget or they don't actually want it. So today we're breaking down these three aspects so that you stop forcing discipline and start building momentum. Alright, Zach.

Mark Odland: 00:49

I know that you work with motivation all the time with your clients. You become our guru at Lion Counseling as the motivation guy. I don't know if you knew I gave you that label yet, but

Zack Carter: 01:00

I love it. It's one

Mark Odland: 01:01

of one of many. One of many good labels. But Yeah. So these three, I mean, sounds like there's a pattern you're seeing. What are you

Zack Carter: 01:08

seeing in your practice? Yeah. So kinda like you laid out at the beginning. The main ones are are usually it's too hard. Yep.

Zack Carter: 01:16

People forget or they don't want to. And so recently, I was listening to so now that the New Year, we're doing the thing that everybody else is doing for the New Year, which is talking about motivation and goals and things. Sure. And so James Clear has been coming up a lot, the Atomic Habits guy. And I listened to his interview.

Zack Carter: 01:34

Was like, oh, it's been a few years since I've read the book. This will be interesting. And, yeah, it's it's funny. So many of the things that I talk to clients about is something that is stuff that I've I've pulled from him. And so too hard is definitely the the number one issue that I see in people, even in myself, that where we want to start our goals usually is the ideal.

Zack Carter: 01:57

Not where we not where we're actually able to start, but where we want to be. And so it's something like, I'm going to work out seven days a week for two hours a day, every day. I'm going to eat nothing but kale. I hate kale, That's all I'm going to eat. And like, I'm going to lose all this weight.

Zack Carter: 02:14

I'm going to have a 27 pack. And it's going I'm going to be ripped. Right? Two days in, we quit because it's just too much, man. It's just too much.

Zack Carter: 02:25

And so anytime I talk to a client, I'm like, all right, I'll even say it in this way. I'll say, okay, bare minimum, where would you like to start the goal? They're like six days a week. I'm like, bro, that's bare minimum. They're like, well, that's where I want to be.

Zack Carter: 02:36

It's like, that's not bare minimum. So bare minimum, where do we typically want to start? So we want to start with something called the 25% rule.

Mark Odland: 02:45

Oh, Okay. I'm all ears. You take

Zack Carter: 02:49

the ideal one. So if you say I want to work out six days a week for an hour a day. Okay, 25%. Alright. So first, we're gonna cut it in half.

Zack Carter: 02:58

So we're gonna take six days a week. We're gonna cut it into three. You're gonna cut it in half again. So it's 1.5. So you you get to pick.

Zack Carter: 03:04

Do you wanna start one day a week working out or two days a week? If you if you're like, ah, I'm gonna start. Let's let's go two days a week. Cool. Awesome.

Zack Carter: 03:11

If you do more, great. Bare minimum, do two days a week. Then we look at the time. Okay. You want do an hour.

Zack Carter: 03:18

So we break that in half. That's thirty minutes. We break it in half again. That's fifteen minutes. Okay.

Zack Carter: 03:22

So I want to work out at least fifteen minutes, at least two days a week. That's actually where the goal should start. People are like, what's the point in that? How am I going to how am I going to have Brad Pitt abs if I'm only working out fifteen minutes a day, two days a week? It's like, well, dude, you got to like build your momentum.

Zack Carter: 03:42

Right. There's a law in physics. An object at rest stays at rest and object in motion stays in motion. So the hardest part is to get you from at rest into motion. That's what we're working on.

Zack Carter: 03:53

So one quick story and then I'll throw it to you.

Mark Odland: 03:55

Yeah, yeah.

Zack Carter: 03:56

You Have any thoughts. So I had a client who we're talking working out. He's like, yeah, I want work out. I want to work out. I was like, Okay, like, where do you want to set the goal?

Zack Carter: 04:05

Like everybody else, he's like, six days a week, one hour. I was like, Okay, all right. Bare minimum. He's like, Fine, three days a week for thirty minutes. I was like, Great, cool.

Zack Carter: 04:15

Let's start there. We'd come back next week. All right, man. How'd it go? I didn't work out at all.

Zack Carter: 04:23

Okay. Fair enough, man. Let's make it easier. Yeah. Was too hard.

Zack Carter: 04:26

Let's make it easier. I was like, how about two days, fifteen minutes? He's like, alright. Fine. We'll try that.

Zack Carter: 04:31

Come back the following week. Alright, man. How'd go? I didn't work out at all. Okay.

Zack Carter: 04:36

This is too hard. Let's let's make it a little easier. So, how about one day a week, five minutes? He's like, one day a week, five minutes? I'm like, yeah, man.

Zack Carter: 04:43

One day a week, five minutes. Okay, fine. He comes back the next week. Alright, man. How'd it go?

Zack Carter: 04:47

Hey, I won't work out, man. Okay. Alright. Here's your goal, dude. You're going to sleep in your gym clothes.

Zack Carter: 04:56

Go wake up in the morning. You're going to put your running shoes on. You're to get into the car. You're going to drive to the gym. Gonna walk through the doors.

Zack Carter: 05:03

You're gonna turn around and walk back out. He's like, what? I'm like, yeah. That's what that's the goal. He's like, what does that do?

Zack Carter: 05:11

I was like, bro, we gotta get you from at rest into motion. Like, you haven't been doing one day a week for five minutes, so let's just get you in the gym. Hey. If you work out, if you go home, you work out fine. But if you don't, you get to leave.

Zack Carter: 05:24

So the following week, he comes back. I'm like, how'd it go? He's like, yeah, man. It worked. Like, I got in the doors.

Zack Carter: 05:30

And then once I was there, I was like, I should just hop on the treadmill for fifteen minutes. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. What do you know? We got you from at rest and emotion.

Zack Carter: 05:38

So, yeah, that's number one. Stuff is too hard. We gotta humble ourselves and say, like, alright, man. I just I can't I can't do it twice a week for fifty minutes at the moment. So I gotta make it super, super, super easy.

Zack Carter: 05:52

That's huge. I'll throw it to you. Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 05:54

I love that. I think that's that's that's so good. And and I think sometimes we have to be a little silly, almost ridiculous with these assignments we give people because because we gotta break the pattern. Right? We gotta break the pattern.

Mark Odland: 06:07

There has to be an emotional some kind of experience or or emotional something that just shakes things, that disrupts the pattern, that sets something in motion. And it gets our attention. Right? It gets our attention. I mean, I think and that's what I'm thinking.

Mark Odland: 06:25

Like, something like the Atomic Habits is so good. Right? Because it gives people a framework for how to put that into practice. And some people can just sit down and read a book and then be like, okay. I'm gonna follow this plan, and they do it.

Mark Odland: 06:36

But then sometimes if they don't have the extra accountability and encouragement from another human being, even that can fail. Right? Even if they have the right ideas. I mean, I remember I maybe told you this, Zach, but I had a chance to talk with James Clear one time, and and I kind of I was thinking to myself, is he putting me out of a job? Like, is Atomic Habits just the new thing and I'm no longer necessary?

Mark Odland: 07:01

And I kind of of put him on the spot and I just asked him like, so do you think this is gonna replace therapy? What's your and he's kind of like, is the wheels returning? He's like, I don't think I want to say that out loud that I think I am replacing psychotherapy with my book. But no, eventually like, he's a confident guy, but I saw the humility and that he's like, okay, you know, I'm not trying to be a therapist. I'm not trying to be a counselor.

Mark Odland: 07:25

And that's essentially irreplaceable. So it's a tool, it's a very effective tool. But in my experience, you take a tool like that and then you pair it with someone like you, Zach. And that's like the the the recipe for saying, have the tools, I have the strategy, and I have someone to encourage me, to hold me accountable, to, have that consistency with that weekly appointment. That that tends to be a good recipe.

Mark Odland: 07:52

I mean, I don't if you found that, but I mean and and everyone's different. Some people just read a good self help book or hear a podcast, and they just go after it. And that's all they need. But that's not how it works for most people. We're wired to be relational.

Mark Odland: 08:04

And so yeah, I'm just grateful that you're doing the the work that you do. I mean, at Lyon, we kinda joked that I I told the client the other day, I'm like, well, I might be with my EMDR therapy. Like, I'm like the surgeon. I'm like the orthopedic surgeon, and Zach is like another kind of he's like the physical therapist combined with a personal trainer who's just gonna like get you back into shape and rehab this sucker and or you know what mean? I don't know.

Zack Carter: 08:31

Yeah. So That's a good comparison. And

Mark Odland: 08:35

and I

Zack Carter: 08:36

love that.

Mark Odland: 08:36

Yeah. So I think it's it's interesting. I I I appreciate that we can offer different paths to the different guys we work with, which leads me to the next question. You know, we work with a lot of men who are entrepreneurs, business owners, CEOs, professionals. And, man, on paper, they don't look like people who are struggling with motivation.

Mark Odland: 08:58

They seem to be rocking it. But then when they get in our office, they're like, man, I I I don't feel motivated. I feel plateaued. I feel like I worked my butt off to get through med school or to create this business, and now I'm coasting. And I don't I don't feel good.

Mark Odland: 09:16

I feel demotivated. So I'm curious about these other things that sabotage the these guys that we work with. Like, you mentioned these these these three things. I mean, yeah, what's what's next on on your mind, Zach, for kind of, like, how where where to go with I

Zack Carter: 09:32

think we'll speak to that question as far as how do we get someone motivated? So, like, I've done the things, and now I'm, like, plateauing. I think that'll be covered by number three.

Mark Odland: 09:43

Like, Okay.

Zack Carter: 09:44

They don't actually want to. They want to. But so one of the things it's funny that because I even as we were prepping for this, we're like, should we say like the only three things that cause lack of motivation? And I was very hesitant to say that. Like, man, there's probably a bunch of things.

Zack Carter: 10:01

And so you reminded me of one of the things that I tell people. And so, for instance, outside of the three we'll be talking about, some people like they they give me like the list of things that they're doing and they're booked up. Sixteen hours a day or something. Like, they're just like, it's just and they're like, yeah. And I just man, I'm so lazy.

Zack Carter: 10:21

I just can't get myself to work out. I'm like, it doesn't sound like you're lazy. It sounds like you're tired. Like, it sounds like Well It sounds sounds like you're putting in an eighty hour week and, like, you get home and all you can do is watch TV. And they're like, no.

Zack Carter: 10:35

I can't be. I'm like, it sounds like you're tired. And so, like, that's another thing. Right? And so sometimes it's that, like, I feel like as humans, we're so quick to call ourselves names, call ourselves lazy, call ourselves unproductive.

Zack Carter: 10:48

Sure. I had a client the other day. He was like, yeah, I'm just I'm just so unproductive. And I was like, okay, where are some exceptions to that? He listed like I had to stop him.

Zack Carter: 10:57

He was like listing so many things. I was like, all right, man, like, have you have you noticed you're like productive in a lot of ways? So like, yeah, here's some things that you're struggling with. Let's talk about it. But you're not an unproductive person.

Zack Carter: 11:08

Like you're a productive person that like sometimes struggles with not being productive. And so It's good. Those kinds of mindset can really can really hold us back. Oh, sure. Yeah.

Zack Carter: 11:19

So those are a couple of thoughts. If you don't, if you have a thought, cool. If not, I can go to our our next meeting.

Mark Odland: 11:25

Well, I was just just briefly, Zach. I was just gonna say, I mean, that that dovetails so well with CBT work that you do and challenging negative thoughts as well. And I would say, I think in our experience, these these successful guys that we often work with, it's not it's not like, wow. It's I'm so surprised that the successful guy struggles with negative self talk and motivation. It's almost like the norm, honestly.

Mark Odland: 11:48

And it's the negative self talk that actually has driven men to overcompensate and and to try to prove something, to themselves or the world or the people from the past or whatever, and that's been fuel. Yeah. But then the fuel isn't working anymore the way it used to. And they have to re calibrate everything. 100%.

Zack Carter: 12:10

Yeah. Yeah. It's so surprising. And this is why you can get people like I had a client. I asked him if I could share this on the show.

Zack Carter: 12:17

Sure. I think I've shared it before, but Yeah. I think he was, like, valedictorian in, like, one of his classes. He's like, yeah. I'm so lazy.

Zack Carter: 12:23

I was like, what? In what world is the valedictorian lazy? And it's just like, yeah, we just get like a script in our head and we just like put it on loop and put it on repeat. Like you said, sometimes it can really drive us. And we're gonna talk maybe about some of those aspects coming up here in a minute.

Zack Carter: 12:40

But, yeah, eventually just it it goes from fuel to poison, you know, it just really starts to clog up the engine and Yep. Causes the car to break down. Dang. So yeah. Yeah.

Zack Carter: 12:52

So number two. Alright. So number one Number one thing is oftentimes it's too hard. Number two thing is we forget. Sometimes we just we have a thing that we want to do, but it's not part of our routine.

Zack Carter: 13:07

And so it just doesn't come to our mind. And then like, I'll have clients that'll come to me with me. I'm like, did you do the thing? They're like, oh shoot, I totally forgot I was supposed to do that. And so that's for guys like us.

Zack Carter: 13:18

It's actually our job to anticipate that and say like, okay, how are you going to remember to do this? What reminders are you going to use? And for a long time I was the kind of, before we even started recording today, I was talking about how when I was younger, I was very good with the flow, did not have a calendar. And situation after situation, I got kicked off the worship team because one Sunday, I just forgot I was supposed to show up, and it's not good if a drummer doesn't show up on a Sunday. It kinda causes the other people to scramble and try to figure out what to do.

Zack Carter: 13:52

So they, like, put me on probation. And so, yeah, they were like, you could play the congas, but you can't play the drum set. And I was like, oh, no. Conga duty is the worst. So Yeah.

Zack Carter: 14:06

So, like, that working at a bank forced me to get organized. And so I think for sometimes, I I take for granted that a lot of people don't know how to remind themselves. Sure. And so If this is you, if you're like, I genuinely don't know how to remind myself. Yeah, man.

Zack Carter: 14:25

Physical calendars are great. Something that you can see. Some people like sticky notes on stuff. Some people can put an object on a table to remind them. For me, I have reminders in my phone and I use my email as a reminder.

Zack Carter: 14:40

So I'll like leave different emails unchecked or different text messages unchecked until I'm like ready to get to them. Sure. So you have to find your own way. You can go online and research a bunch of ways. But my biggest thing for you listening is to really start to try to set reminders for yourself so that you can get your goals accomplished and so you can get more organized.

Zack Carter: 15:02

It's going to make you way more successful. And so the biggest thing is just do it right then while you're thinking about it. So like, you're like, oh shoot, while Zach's talking about this, I'm thinking about all the things I am not doing that I need to get done right now, pause the video and like put it in. So I'll actually do that in sessions with clients where they're like, yeah, I should probably set a reminder for that. And I'm like, do you want to do it now?

Zack Carter: 15:25

They're like, I should probably do it right now. Yeah. You should do it right now. And so I highly recommend that. Like, set these reminders, put these things in, and do it while you're thinking about it.

Zack Carter: 15:36

Any good thoughts on forgetting?

Mark Odland: 15:39

What did you just say, Zach? I forgot. Dad joke. My daughter's listening right now. She would be cringing.

Mark Odland: 15:48

Yeah. But, no, I think I think it's I do see it a lot too, and I see that some of the guys we work with too. Like, I mean, I I remember a lot of the entrepreneurs I've worked with. They've blown up the business. Sometimes it's, grown a little faster than they were ready for because of some, you know, hard hard work and good ideas.

Mark Odland: 16:07

And now they're putting out fires all the time, and and it is so much to keep track of. And oftentimes, the solution does come with finding systems, not relying on your brain to remember one more random fact. It just doesn't work that way. And you have to have you have to create essentially an external brain for yourself, you know, with these this reminder system. So I love that you're getting that practical with people.

Mark Odland: 16:34

And no matter how successful or smart someone might be, we have to kind of swallow our pride, I think, and get back to basics and realize, you know, we're not above some of these quote unquote simple or basic ideas because they actually work. You just got to put them into A 100%.

Zack Carter: 16:53

Yeah. Yeah. A to do list can be an amazing thing for lots of lots of reasons. On top of keeping track of everything, you also get hits of dopamine every time you scratch something on the list. Like and you feel that forward momentum.

Zack Carter: 17:04

So this is another thing that can help you be motivated. So it can it can do so many things for you. So awesome. Cool. Yeah.

Zack Carter: 17:11

Let's go over the last thing. And then the last thing is actually gonna break us into a sheet that I prepared for us today. Okay. That I think will be good to cover. But the last thing is don't want to.

Zack Carter: 17:22

What do you mean I don't want to, Zach? I'm telling you I want to do it. Maybe maybe you wanna do it or maybe you don't. So I'll have clients that like they're using screens before bed and that just wrecks your sleep. I'm like, Okay, well, what could you do instead before bed?

Zack Carter: 17:41

They're like, I mean, I guess I could like read a book. I'm like, do you want to read a book? They're like, well, I should read a book. And I'm like, do you want to read a book? I'm like, oh, why would you why why do we want to set that as a goal then?

Zack Carter: 17:55

Right. And so And we get too ahead of myself, but those shoulds are alive and well in our head. And we really want to be careful being driven by the shoulds because they tend not to work because we tend not to do the thing that we quote unquote should do. So let's talk about what motivation aspects are actually helpful. So you see that on the screen?

Mark Odland: 18:18

Yeah. I see it. Yeah. Cool.

Zack Carter: 18:20

Alright. So this is this is our worksheet. So if you're watching the show right now and you've got a notebook or a journal, you can pause real quick, go grab it, come back. What you're gonna do is you're gonna pop that bad boy open, and you're gonna draw across in the middle of the sheet. Okay?

Zack Carter: 18:40

The top left, we got desires or wants. Bottom left, we got our shoulds. We got our values. It's what we care about. Okay.

Zack Carter: 18:48

Upright. Bottom right, we've got duty and responsibility. So say I want to lose weight, right? Beginning of the year, it's what most people's goal is. Time to lose weight.

Zack Carter: 18:57

I watch the shows. I watch all those shows that are coming up right now on YouTube saying this is how you can lose your belly fat. All right, cool. That's what you've decided, we're going to lose weight. There's some different things that can bring about motivation inside of us.

Zack Carter: 19:14

So we've got desires, wants, these come from our five senses. So I walk past the bakery, I smell the donuts, I want the donuts, I eat the donuts. So I was motivated by the smell to go eat those donuts. So we can also do this for positive goals. So that'd be a negative goal is eating the donut.

Zack Carter: 19:37

The positive goal is, you know, I'm watching the new Formula one movie with Brad Pitt, and he takes his shirt off, I'm like, dang. Brad Pitt's in his fifties with a six pack. Like, talking about Brad Pitt's six pack a lot today. May have a tiny male crush. I didn't wanna say it out loud, Zach.

Zack Carter: 19:55

It's okay. Doesn't take much psychologizing. Don't get me started on Ryan Reynolds. Alright. So coming from the five senses.

Zack Carter: 20:06

So I see the Brad Pitt abs. I want the Brad Pitt abs. Okay? So we're gonna put Brad Pitt abs. Right?

Zack Carter: 20:14

So I'm like, I need to go get some of those. I'm a get into the gym. I just I just watched Rocky. I watched the the the workout routine he just did. Time time to get in the gym and get some abs, and that, like, works for, like, thirty seconds.

Zack Carter: 20:31

And then as soon as the movie's done, you're like, let me get back to my popcorn. Right? Desires and wants tend not to be good fuel. They may work for a small amount of time, but they're not really good sustaining.

Mark Odland: 20:43

So, Zach, wait. Just so what you're saying is if you want Rocky, a Rocky physique, it's not enough to just be like, hey. I'm gonna work for hard for a day. You need to actually rent a barn in Russia and train and train there in the mountains. And then maybe maybe you got a fighting chance.

Zack Carter: 21:03

Maybe. Maybe. But there's no promises. We can't promise anything on like that like that on the show. So

Mark Odland: 21:09

PS, if anyone if anyone does want to attend our retreat in the mountains in Russia, hit us up. We'll we'll give you more details later.

Zack Carter: 21:18

That's right. There'll be a link in the description below. Alright. So bottom left, we got our shoulds. Our shoulds.

Zack Carter: 21:24

Where do shoulds come from? Shoulds come from culture. So the people around us, YouTube, come from our faith, religion, come from our family. Maybe your mom's like, oh, you've been gaining a little weight. My grandmother, we were talking earlier about me losing a bunch of weight in high school, and she's like, you're really skinny now.

Zack Carter: 21:43

And I was like, oh, thanks, grandma. Like, not not helpful. So our family our family can impact how we set our goals or what what we try to do. They can be motivating forces. Sure.

Zack Carter: 21:56

So we'll say, you know, David Goggins says, I need to stop being wuss. I'm gonna clean the language up. So I am going to work out. Cool. Thanks, David Goggins.

Zack Carter: 22:18

Alright. We go. That was definitely the cleaned up version of David Goggins. So we're told outside of us what we should do. Do you ever pay attention?

Zack Carter: 22:29

If someone tells you to do something, do you typically do it? Not usually. This is why literally our job as counselors is to ask a bunch of questions so you figure it out on your own. Because usually, I'm not saying I never do it, but usually when I do it, I'm like, you know, you should think about doing this thing. Very often, they don't do.

Zack Carter: 22:48

Sometimes they do, but very often, they don't do it. Right? So Right. So shoulds come from outside of us tends not to be good fuel sources. So notice that these two come from external sources.

Zack Carter: 23:03

These come from our five senses and then all these come from the culture around us, our faith and our family. Mhmm. K? Before we move to internal sources of motivation, Mark, do you have any comments, thoughts, questions, concerns?

Mark Odland: 23:18

No concerns. This this makes a lot of sense. I like this I like this framework. I haven't seen it put like this, Zach. So thanks for giving this resource.

Mark Odland: 23:27

Yeah. I think and we can we can definitely throw a link to this document in the in the show notes for you guys if you wanna print out a clean copy for yourself. So yep.

Zack Carter: 23:35

Yeah, I can I can delete all the random stuff I'm typing right now? Like, I mean, who doesn't want Brad Pitt abs on their sheet? But, you know, if you don't, we'll we'll take it off. So thanks for supplying that, Mark. So all right.

Zack Carter: 23:48

So we got top right. We've got values. Okay, so this is what we internally find important. Okay, so we've mentioned James Clear earlier in the show and he's got a really great and I recommend you could type it into Google. You could just type in core values list.

Zack Carter: 24:07

Usually his thing is like the first thing that pops up where you can type in James Clear core values list and you can get this like list of typical values that are internal to each human being that that each of us have certain ones that we really connect with. And so what do you know? Yeah. If you took a guess, Zach as a counselor really loves connection with others. So we'll just call it connection.

Zack Carter: 24:33

Yeah. So working out, like, I guess I've never thought of myself as, like, the workout guy. But, like, if you looked at last year, I probably worked out 80% of the days last year, probably. Like, consistent, I would think. Yep.

Zack Carter: 24:52

And so how did how did I go about doing that? Well, I've learned years ago that if I want to stay consistent in my workout, I need to find workout buddies. So when I was in Virginia, I had a couple guys that every morning we would get up, get there at 6AM, workout together. I have a guy now, now that I'm in Florida. I connected with him at church and he and I work out every morning at 6AM.

Zack Carter: 25:19

And how did I do that? Because I found out what is my actual value? What do I actually care about? What I actually care about is connecting with people. And so if I utilize a value of mine, I'm going to be more likely to actually work out.

Zack Carter: 25:39

On the days he's like, sorry, bro, can't show up. There's a good chance I play video games that morning. There's a very good shot that I play video games. Right? So me utilizing these values has been very helpful for me.

Zack Carter: 25:55

And so especially if I know in advance, I can say, alright. Well, I've got another buddy who likes to work out. I'm going reach out to him. Right. So, yes, sometimes I do.

Zack Carter: 26:02

I can get myself to go work out, but I know if I want to be consistent. I need connection. Okay. So those are values internal. Lastly, duty responsibility to others.

Zack Carter: 26:14

So this is. So we have shoulds on one side. So this is what people tell you you should care about. You should care about country. You should care about family.

Zack Carter: 26:24

You should care about your faith, whatever. But on the inside, we have like actual feelings of duty. Like we actually, we don't really need to be told. We just go do the thing. That's right.

Zack Carter: 26:36

So I had a buddy back in Virginia who he was that I worked out with. And when you would ask him why he worked out, he would say he was in his forties and he just had a baby. And so he's like, I do this to stay healthy for my kids. He knew. He knew that if he didn't take care of himself by the time his kids were active and moving.

Zack Carter: 27:03

There could be a good shot that, you know, he would not have the energy to actually play with his kids or actually do sports or whatever with the kids. And so his duty to his family is why was the motivating force to work out. Okay, wow. So in summary with this chart, you've got these two up over here. These are external.

Zack Carter: 27:26

These are these are the outside world telling you what's important to you. These over here is what you actually find important. If you don't know what you actually find important, remember, go find that core values list online by James Clear. He's gonna give you a ton of stuff. Yep.

Zack Carter: 27:42

Okay. My big encouragement is no one's around and no one's watching. And so if you're like, well, faith should be on my list. There's a should, probably not a good source of motivation. I'm not saying I'm saying ideally it would be.

Zack Carter: 28:01

But if you have a should in front of certain I love should be the thing that's motivating. Well, if you've got a should, it's not actually motivating. So what if and if you're like being successful. Okay, cool. So then I work out because I know that my body is an advertisement to the people around me and that that's part of me marketing myself when I go into interviews or when I'm online having a presence or whatever that people say, hey, this guy looks good.

Zack Carter: 28:28

He must have discipline. I'm going to use this guy for my business. Okay, cool. Then you use success as the fuel to go work out, for instance, if that's the goal you you have. So actually pick goals that matter to you and then actually pick dudes that actually matter you.

Zack Carter: 28:44

Okay. Thoughts? Yeah.

Mark Odland: 28:47

This is so good, Zach. One one subtle thing. I don't know if you found this, but I've had times when the one of the guys I work with will identify one of those shoulds. Right? And they'll be like, oh, man.

Mark Odland: 29:01

I should do this. And they're like, yeah. That doesn't feel good. I don't think that will motivate me. And they'll there's a simple exercise you can do is write down that same sentence.

Mark Odland: 29:09

I should do this, and then replace it with, I want to do this. And then be completely honest with yourself in the in your gut.

Zack Carter: 29:19

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 29:20

Does it actually work? Like, is it actually true? Right? I remember hearing a couples therapist say it this one say it this way one time. You know, it was like, instead of saying, oh, I should be more more romantic with my spouse.

Mark Odland: 29:34

And then it feels like homework to do. It feels like this obligation. Who want you can't control me. Why would I wanna do that? But then they replaced it with, wait a second.

Mark Odland: 29:43

I do love my spouse. I want to be close to them. I want to be. And then you have to kind of reframe it in your mind. And then but it's almost like a look yourself in the mirror kind of moment, but then back to what you're saying.

Mark Odland: 29:58

But then still have the courage to be honest with yourself. If you try out the I want to and you're like, if I'm honest, I actually don't want to. Okay. Well, that's probably not gonna be a good motivator for you then. You gotta find something stronger.

Mark Odland: 30:09

Mhmm.

Zack Carter: 30:10

I love that so much. Yeah. I might use that. I'm gonna steal that from you. Yeah.

Zack Carter: 30:14

The the switching it to I want to. If you if you actually like pay attention in your body when you say the word should, I feel a I feel a drop in my chest. Like we don't usually pay attention to how words actually make us feel internally. And so for most of my clients, they feel the same thing. If they say like, I should love my spouse more.

Zack Carter: 30:31

Boom. Even now, as I'm like just demonstrating, I feel like a drop go down in my chest. Right? And if you say, I want to love my wife more, there's no drop. And so you can practice that at home and just see like, does that happen for you as well?

Zack Carter: 30:44

Do you feel an internal change inside your body? It's kind of weird. It's all connected. Our thoughts, our emotions, our behaviors, that's the bread and butter of cognitive behavioral therapy. But if you actually pay attention to what happens in your body.

Zack Carter: 30:56

So that's why the words we use, have to be very careful of because we can they can really be either motivating or demotivating based on how you phrase it. If you say, I am an addict, well, you now you've given your self permission to act like an addict.

Mark Odland: 31:13

Right.

Zack Carter: 31:13

If you say, I'm an overcomer, well, now you've given yourself permission to overcome. So words can be super powerful as we use them, and it it and it impacts not just our mind, but our body as well. So I love that I wanna change it to I want from I should to I want. That's good. You guys can write that down.

Zack Carter: 31:32

Yeah. Alright. Lastly, so just as an example, reframing. So in this sheet that we'll be providing, we're gonna try to reframe our motivation. How can we reframe this goal so it aligns more strongly with your actual values, with your actual responsibilities or duties?

Zack Carter: 31:51

And so I just gave you an example. I want to work out to look good. So that's going to be more of the left side, right? That's going to be more of the desires. Sure.

Zack Carter: 31:59

It could be more of the shoulds. Right. I want to work out just to look good. Whereas if I say I want to work out to connect with others. Okay, that's actually going to be more of those internal internal values that will actually help fuel you to get whatever your values are will fuel you to actually get those things done.

Zack Carter: 32:22

Wow. Okay. So that's all I have for today, Mark. Any last thoughts?

Mark Odland: 32:27

Yeah. This is this is really good stuff. And I think, know, you what we're looking for is not just fake motivation that burns hard and fast and then burns out. Right? We're looking for staying power.

Mark Odland: 32:39

We're looking for systems, healthy habits, new patterns that help us to as you we say a lot at our company, right, is to become the Lions God created us to be, right? God might see us see the best in us because of his grace, but we live in a world of cause and effect and reaping and sowing and what we do matters, right and so we want to try to live into that that high calling and to try to step up and keep keep working and we get knocked down all right get back up get back up try again there's support there's grace Hopefully, you guys have it within your family and in your friend group. If not, that's something to keep working on. And that's what Zach and I are here for too. Right?

Mark Odland: 33:23

We know that it's hard to do it alone, and sometimes the people that are closest to us, there's a limit to how much they wanna hear about our stuff too. Like, especially some of the guys we work with, like, they don't necessarily wanna dump all their stuff on everybody. So that's a whole other conversation. But, you know, if you go to escapethecagenow.com, you can schedule a free consult with me or Zach, and we're happy to talk it through, see if it might be a good fit. You know, things are busy.

Mark Odland: 33:49

Space is is pretty limited, but we do try to make room for guys who are motivated and want change. So, if you feel led that direction, we'd, we'd be honored to work with you. So that's all I got, Zach. Thanks for sharing all that good info, and, until next time, guys. Take care.

Mark Odland: 34:06

Happy New Year.