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When life gets hard, does what we think we believe hold us up, or does it crumble under the weight of doubt? I'm your host, Dr. Lee Warren- I'm a brain surgeon, author, and a person who's seen some stuff and wondered where God is in all this mess. This is The Spiritual Brain Surgery podcast, where we'll take a hard look at what we believe, why we believe it, and the neuroscience behind how our minds and our brains can smash together with faith to help us become healthier, feel better, and be happier so we can find the hope to withstand anything life throws at us. You've got questions, and we're going to do the hard work to find the answers, but you can't change your life until you change your mind, and it's gonna take some spiritual-brain surgery to get it done. So let's get after it.
Hey my friend dr lee warren here with you for another episode
of the spiritual brain surgery podcast we've got my friend john
sidle guest hosting the second episode that
he's bringing us today an incredible conversation about the theology of suffering
if you've been through something hard or you love somebody who has or is going
through something difficult this is an episode that will really help you move
the needle on how to think about what god's doing when you're hurting and how
to process and handle that so you can find hope,
become healthier, feel better, and be happier. John Saddle, he's the man.
I hope you enjoyed last week's episode. If you didn't hear part one of John's
guest host, go back and check that out. But today's episode is awesome.
I love John so much, and I know that he's going to help you get some work done
today as we try to discover a proper theology of suffering. Let's hear from John.
Hello, hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Spiritual Brain Surgery podcast,
the podcast where we take a hard look at what we believe, why we believe it,
and how neuroscience and faith smash together to help us find the hope to withstand
anything life throws at us.
You've got questions, and we're going to do the hard work to find the answers.
But you can't change your life until you change your mind, and it's going to
take some spiritual brain surgery to get it done.
So let's get after it.
I am your guest host, Jonathan M. Seidel.
You can call me John. I said that in the last episode. I introduced myself a little bit.
And so if you didn't listen to that episode, I would encourage you to go listen
to it because it really sets the stage for this one and what we're going to be talking about today.
But I am an author, a writer, a podcaster, I have a book called Finding Rest,
a book that came out about in 2021.
The subtitle is –.
I'm sorry, the subtitle is A Survivor's Guide to Navigating the Valleys of Anxiety, Faith, and Life.
And it's about my journey being diagnosed with anxiety and OCD and how,
as a person of faith, that I really approach that mental health diagnosis.
And so that sets the stage for this week, because what I want to talk about
today is what I call a proper theology of suffering.
And what I will say is that that proper theology of suffering has made all the
difference in how I approach my mental health.
How I approach all the problems in my life, which, by the way,
did not stop once I got this proper theology of suffering.
They did not stop once I was diagnosed with anxiety, OCD, and was finally able to treat them.
I continue to have problems and struggle. I think that is one of the things
that we overlook most as Christians in a world where the gospel of Jesus Christ
has been watered down to be about what we want,
to be about what makes us happy, to be about what makes our life easier and easiest.
I think there are a lot of people I say, and this is, listen,
I'm not like necessarily going on a rant here, but I think there are too many pastors these days.
That preach a gospel that is really what I call a spiritual TED Talk.
And it is rah-rah. It is, you can slay your giants. You can do this with the power of God.
And if you just believe enough, these things will happen. And if you just pull
yourself up by your spiritual bootstraps and get right thinking,
then everything else will align.
And do I think right thinking is really important? Yes, that's why I'm guest-hosting
this podcast, because I think Dr.
Warren talks correctly about how so much of this starts in our mind.
And yet, I think you can hold that belief and not fall into what,
in a sense, can be called moral therapeutic deism, right?
Where God is your homeboy that's really just there to make you happy.
And so that's a little bit about what
I want to talk about today because a proper theology of suffering I think shatters
that notion and shatters that understanding and gives us a right and proper
view of how to approach the downright messy things in our lives.
So, in order to start talking about a proper theology of suffering,
let me go back a little bit to my upbringing.
I talked a little bit about that upbringing last episode, so you can go back and listen.
But here's where I'm really going to drill down on it. I grew up in a faith
and belief system that was Christian, Protestant, evangelical, but….
That was what you could call prosperity gospel, that was really treating God
like a genie or a vending machine.
You rub the lamp, God pops out, and what you want is what he gives you.
Now, the vending machine comes in because that's maybe like the step further.
So, if God is a genie is the real simple way to explain it, the vending machine
is the next step in explaining it, which is if you put the right change in and
you press the right buttons, God will give you what you want. It's very formulaic.
A plus B equals C.
And a lot of A and B is if you believe the right things, pray hard enough,
give money, sow seeds of faith, as it was called.
If you deny that you are sick, for example, if you say, I will not confess those
words that I am sick, you will not be sick.
And then God will give you what you want. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills.
And that was used so much growing up. And he wants for you to be healthy, wealthy, and wise.
And that's what I was, that's what I grew up to believe. That was my view of God.
And people who got sick either didn't have enough faith, they weren't praying
hard enough, or they had unrepentant sin in their life. That was another big aspect of it.
So maybe you were praying hard.
Maybe you did say, I have enough faith.
But if you had unrepentant sin in your life, well, then, you know,
God couldn't work and wouldn't work.
And so this really colored my judgment of who God was and how he loved me. Yeah.
God was a very cause and effect God. And I actually wrote an article on this
recently on my blog, TheVeritasDaily.com.
And I wrote an article talking about how my biggest faith struggle isn't what
I thought it was going to be.
And that is because this image, this view of God as a cause and effect God who
I could control in a way by making him happy, by doing what he said to do,
that image, that view of God has colored my life and my faith in more ways than I thought.
I thought I had untangled it, and yet I still find myself falling back into that trap.
Not in the trap of thinking, well, if I do this, God will heal me.
If I do this, God will blah, blah, blah.
But in ways that are a little bit more subconscious, where, for example,
my wife and I have gone through a really hard year this past year.
She got in a car accident a couple years ago. So we're coming up on two years
and it's caused a lot of health issues.
I had a thriving consulting business at one point and God has taken that away.
And now I'm back. Now I'm back in school. I'm in seminary full time.
And and, you know, people like might think, oh, that's like that's like out
of a movie. That's cool. It's not it's not that sexy, guys.
I'm telling you to go from having making the most money of your life now having
to pay money to do something.
I'm telling you, it's not that awesome. And yet, I have a big piece about it.
But I find myself thinking, God, thinking, not thinking, thinking,
God, I have nothing to give you. And I don't think that you're going to do something.
You're not going to come through because I have nothing to give you. And God is saying, God.
That's not why I come through. I don't come through because you have something
to offer me. I come through because I love you.
I come through because I am God. I come through because I said I will work all
things for your good and my glory.
So my point is that this type of theology, this type of thinking is so ingrained
in me that even though I'm cognizant of it,
there are aspects and tentacles of it that I still can fall into,
and that's the grip that it had on me for so long.
But part of finally understanding the ways that that was wrong came via my mental health diagnoses.
In college, I started kind of getting an idea that, hey, maybe this God that
I've come to know and understand isn't really who God is.
It is the same God, by the way. I was a Christian.
But these aspects, these attributes of God, the ways that we can maybe manipulate
him into doing what we want. I don't think, you know, as Princess Bride would
say, I don't think that word means what you think it means. I don't think that
God is who you think he is.
Um, and so I started untangling it a little bit and I will remember that the
first big wrecking ball that came to this type of theology in my life happened in college.
I, um, I was back, I think it was for Christmas and my stepdad and I were driving in the car.
And um as we
got to this stoplight the radio
dj came on it was a christian station and he said
hey i have some really bad news reggie white the longtime beloved green bay
packers defensive end who helped um win us a super bowl i say us yes because
i'm a green bay packers fan i am actually a part owner of the team,
as are thousands and thousands of others.
But that Reggie had died.
And I remember almost immediately my stepdad getting this look on his face and
saying something to the effect of how sad Reggie must have had unrepentant sin because we're promised.
Were promised life of 75 years.
And so if he died early, then there was something wrong in his life.
And I remember just kind of immediately having this visceral reaction and saying,
this is not right. And then I said it out loud. I was like, what are you talking about?
And we got into a major, major argument over this because I said,
Reggie White, if you don't know really his story or who he was,
Reggie White was one of the most committed Christians that the NFL has ever seen.
There's a lot of people who gave glory to God after a win, and I want to thank
my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, blah, blah, blah, which I don't want to fully discount those things.
But I just think sometimes that has become a cultural thing and not a spiritual thing to do.
But Reggie, he was preaching the gospel to people in the locker room.
He was trying to drag people into heaven in the best sense of the phrase.
He was constantly pointing people to Jesus.
He would play in Green Bay, and on the weekends, there was a church that he would preach at.
And in fact, when he died, he was pastoring a church in North Carolina, I believe.
And so when I'm talking to my stepdad, I'm saying, you got to be kidding me.
Like, this man is a man of God. like he is doing great things for the kingdom.
What do you mean? What do you mean he must have had unrepentant sin or there
must have been something going on in his life that he was hiding that this would happen to him?
And so that really started me on a big journey to understanding what I think and what C.S.
Lewis, my favorite author, would say is the biggest affront to faith in Christianity.
And that is why do bad things happen to good people?
Why does Reggie White die? He had a nickname, Minister of Defense.
How can the Minister of Defense die in his sleep at a young age?
I mean, he had retired from football by this time, but he was still probably in his 50s.
How can that happen, that evil, bad thing happen to someone who is serving the Lord?
And I'm not going to tell you that I figured that out.
I went back to college in New York City and then figured that out in the next
semester. But it started this long journey.
This long inquiry into this question.
And once I got diagnosed with anxiety and OCD, it really put it all together for me.
And I finally was able to get to an answer.
And that answer is what I call a proper theology of suffering.
A proper theology of suffering,
is what I say is really understanding.
That we get to a point where we don't judge God by our circumstances,
but we judge our circumstances by who we know God is.
And I stole that from somewhere, and I talk about it in my book,
And there's a proper citation in there. I just can't remember it off the top
of my head, but I want to say that again.
A proper theology of suffering can be summed up by saying, I'm going to judge.
I'm not going to judge God by my circumstances.
I'm going to judge my circumstances by who I know God to be.
Who do we know God to be? Well, we know, and I think one of the most important
verses we have on this topic is Romans 8.28.
And in Romans 8.28, it talks about God working all things together for the good,
for those who love him and are called according to his purpose. Now, here's the thing.
I certainly heard that verse growing up, right?
But in that prosperity gospel world.
Where I got it wrong and where they get it wrong is that we think we get to
define what our good is, right?
We have these ideas of what we think good is, and we equate what's good for
us with what makes us feel good, with what makes us happy,
with what fulfills the quote-unquote desires of our heart.
But what we don't realize is those desires of our heart are pretty darn rotten, right?
And so, growing up, I would define what is good.
And yet, what the Bible teaches us is what is good is not always,
and dare I say usually, not what our sinful hearts define as good.
Not what our sinful hearts want. So when Paul talks in Romans 8,
28 of all things working together for our good, for those who love him and are
called according to his purpose, those next two things are really important.
Who love him and are called according to his purpose. So meaning if you love God,
which we know from Scripture that to love him is to abide in him,
to abide with him, to be in constant communication, to be just sitting with
him on a consistent basis. That's what loving him looks like.
And are called according to his purpose. If we are living out that identity that he has given us.
There's a really important book that you need to read called Living Fearless
by a guy named Jamie Winship.
It helped change the course of my life. And it is about finding your true identity.
Not just as a general son or daughter of God.
But what he has placed and knit you together to do that is so important.
And that your skills and your abilities can help you fulfill.
So if you are called according to his purpose, if you are living out that identity,
those two things he will work then for – he will work all things together for your good.
And your good is predicated on loving and being in communication and relationship
with him and living out your purpose, right? Right.
And so that's very different than what I grew up being being told.
And so when I got my diagnosis, I said, huh, okay, if all things work together
for my good and his glory, which that's another very kind of succinct way to put it, right?
That he is working things out for my good and his glory, for your good and his
glory, for our good and his glory.
So what's ultimately good for us, we can't define.
He gets to define. And his glory, well, listen, he defines that as well. What brings him glory?
And so I started thinking.
Okay, God did not cause my anxiety. He did not cause my OCD, right? He is a good God.
He is not doling out anxiety and OCD as punishment.
He didn't create them. He didn't introduce them into the world.
No, a proper theology would say sin, when it was introduced to the world in
the garden as a result of Adam and Eve eating of the fruit that they weren't
supposed to, sin entered the world and broke it.
And a result of those broken things is pain and suffering and disease and death, right?
So sin entering the world causes my anxiety and OCD, right?
Last episode, we talked about anxiety actually being a good thing when it's
in its proper place. It keeps us safe, right?
But sin has distorted that. Sin has made it so that my fight or flight response
is completely and utterly out of whack,
where the slightest uncomfortableness in my life can cause me to go into an
episode where my heart races. I sweat.
I can't not move, right? Like meaning I have to be moving. My heart races.
All these things. I can't stop thinking. That's a result of sin.
God didn't give that to me.
But God has allowed that in my life. He has not stepped in and stopped that.
He allows that in my life for my good and his glory.
Like, think about that for a second. So God, in his infinite wisdom,
knows that me having anxiety and OCD,
that there is a world in which he's operating, where he takes that and he uses
that for my good and his glory.
Well, I've absolutely found that to be true, right?
Like in my life, I have found that my anxiety, my OCD –.
Brings me closer to Jesus.
And I guess like brings is maybe the wrong word. It forces me to Jesus.
There's a great quote attributed to Charles Spurgeon.
It says, I have learned to kiss the waves that throw me against the rock of ages.
Those waves that are battering you and And over time, they cut holes in you
and they wear you down, but they throw you into the rock of ages, into Jesus, right?
And dare I say that those waves can also, in a sense, hone and refine your rough edges?
Yeah, that's what they've done for me. And so what I've come to find and understand,
and again, this goes back to I'm going to interpret my circumstances by who I know God to be.
I know God is good. I know he is loving. I know he cares for me.
I know he is working things for my good and his glory. So if I have these diagnoses,
if I have anxiety, and if I have OCD,
which newsflash I still do, then I know that he is being faithful to use them
for my good and his glory.
And I know like maybe this at this point, it's sounding a little repetitious,
but like I want it to sink in because by the way, I'm preaching to myself here.
I need to continue to I know these things and yet I can get off track.
I can get upset. I can get angry. I can get frustrated with God,
man. I have some great anger sessions with God.
Oh, boy. I don't know if you've ever had a good anger session with God,
but I really encourage you to do it.
I really encourage you to have a good anger session with God.
I mean, I'm probably about like once a month, you know, God, why?
And you know who models that so well in the Bible? David.
David, the psalmist.
Like, these are, it's what we call laments. And there's a whole book in the
Bible called Lamentations.
And like, I don't think enough preachers have a sermon series on lamentations.
But the root word of lamentations is laments. And laments are cries to God when
things are not right in this world.
And guess what? Because of sin, because of that brokenness, things are not right in this world.
If you are not encountering things that are not right, I don't know what to
tell you. Something's off. Something's wrong.
Because I sat next to a guy the other day at this event.
He was just telling me like how great life was. And, you know,
he's just got this amazing perspective on everything.
And I kind of was like, bro, like either you're lying or you're lying to yourself,
or something like just wait.
And I don't wish that on him, but I also know the words of Jesus that said in
this world, you will have trouble.
You will, right? Right. So I lament. I lament often.
God, this is not right. When my son a year and a half ago started limping out
of nowhere and we brought him to the pediatrician and the pediatrician said, he's fine.
Nothing wrong with him. In fact, he's probably got some behavioral issues in
this. He's just making this up. What?
And my wife who mama bear came out and said no i don't think this is correct and we got him to,
children's hospital and they come in and say mr mrs seidel your son has a tumor
in his shin and you have an appointment with the oncologist.
I lamented things were not right that is not right that is not god's design
for a four-year-old to have a tumor in his shin.
By God's grace, we find out within a couple months that it is benign,
and in what I can only say is a miracle, it's disappeared.
Disappeared. To the point where the oncologist later said, in our last appointment,
said, I wonder if I misread this.
The doctor said, I wonder if I misread the MRI. I have the MRI.
I can see it as clear as day. It doesn't take an expert to see it.
I don't think this doctor was a person of faith.
But the doctor said, like, I'm
questioning my initial diagnosis because there's nothing there anymore.
Is that like, seriously? But those are the kind of things you lament about.
Those are the kind of things you go to God and say, this is not right.
And so, in those laments, what I have found is that God is faithful to show
up. I also love the laments if you look in the Psalms.
They don't just end with complaints. They don't just end with cries for help and hope.
David especially will consistently say something to the effect of,
but I know who you are I know what you've done I know that you're good I know
that you're working this is wrong, this is bad this shouldn't be happening but
I know who you are and I love you God,
and that fits right in with a proper theology of suffering now, I want to say this,
All that's great. But there's one book of the Bible that has made this utterly clear to me.
And my thinking on this topic and this subject did not come together until I
read and reread this book.
And in my book, Finding Rest, I call this, and I have a whole chapter on this,
and I call it the most important book of the Bible.
And that book is Job. Here's what's interesting about the book of Job. I'm in seminary now.
And I had heard this before, but my professor brought it up recently,
and it was just such a great reminder.
Job is arguably the oldest book of the Bible.
There are many scholars who believe that Job was chronologically the first book
of the Bible ever written. Why is that important?
Because, if true, that means the first book of the Bible, the first book written, was about Satan.
Suffering, was about pain in the world, was about dealing with the issues that
are not right in our lives. Can you just think about that for a second?
So I think the point there is that in the totality of human existence,
one thing we all have in common is suffering sucks.
So much so that the first book of the Bible, the oldest book of the Bible,
is about suffering and suffering sucking.
Like, I just don't think that's a coincidence. Like, I think that should say something to us.
And so if you're not familiar with the book of Job or maybe just cursorily familiar,
maybe just made that word up, thank you.
Job is introduced to the world in the beginning of Job as a righteous and upstanding
man, the most amazing guy in the world.
Like the introduction, I'm like, listen, if that introduction were written about
me someday, I would be flying high.
And yet, the most righteous, the most upstanding, God-fearing man in the world loses everything.
His kids, his family, his money, his wealth, his possessions,
his animals, everything.
And in fact, almost loses his life. Gets so sick.
Not just sick like, I've got a cough, I'm in a daze.
Like, boils on his body. Painfully sick.
Here's what's interesting. I think many people miss this about the book of Job.
And this really is one of the most important aspects for me coming to understand
a proper theology of suffering.
In the beginning of the book of Job, do you know who, like, so, well, let me say this.
The devil and God are having a conversation.
And the devil asks God if he can, like, he kind of makes a bet with God.
Like, I bet if you let me afflict Job, take away all his stuff,
he'll curse you. And God says, I'll take that bet.
Just can't kill him. Okay.
Again, we tend to know that part. But the part that we skip over and don't realize
is, do you know who brought up Job in the first place? It wasn't the devil.
The devil didn't. It says the devil was searching to and fro throughout the earth.
And it's not that the devil saw Job and then went to God and said hey God guess
what I bet I've been looking at this guy Job and I bet that if you take away all his stuff,
or let me take away all his stuff and do all this evil stuff to him he'll curse you no no no no no no,
God brings Job up to the devil he says have you considered my servant Job.
Think about that for a second,
God brings up Job to the devil. It was God's idea.
God is the one that planted the idea in the first place.
Well, what do we do with that? I mean, think about that for a second.
Now, God didn't cause it. The devil did. The devil did all the evil things to Job.
God allowed it to happen. And in fact, God, in a sense, set it in motion. Why?
Because he knew that it was ultimately for Job's good and God's glory.
God would get the most glory out of Job going through this suffering.
And he's God. And if there's anything I think that's the hardest part for us
to understand about this, it's that. He's God.
We want to figure it out. We want to have it all neat and tidy.
And friend like i just want to let you know there are things
we will not fully comprehend or understand this
side of glory and the sooner you realize
that i think the sooner more peaceful your life will be not not not because
ignorance is bliss but because our feeble minds literally cannot comprehend
stuff and i think one of the things is god is god as god he deserves glory and he gets glory.
And in this instance, especially with Job, the thing that would give God the
most glory is for Job to go through this suffering and yet it also,
it also was the best thing for Job. Well, why? How do I know that?
Oh, because if you read the book of Job, which is beautiful,
by the way, a massive section of Job is Job lamenting. We talked about laments.
And there's this, And there's this point where Job is questioning God.
And God, in a sense, gets really upset and basically goes into this long discourse
that says, who are you to question me?
Who are you to question me? Who made the heavens? Who made man's mouth? Who made the ocean?
Like all this stuff, right? Kind of reminiscent in a way of what God says to
Moses at the burning bush. who made man's mount.
And,
And Job, at the end of God's response, is so humbled.
Not humbled like in a cowering way, but humbled that in this experience,
he has come closer to God. He has gotten more of God.
The relationship between Job and God has been enriched in a way that Job finally realizes.
Oh my gosh. the creator of the universe I have access to him and if this is
what he's doing if this is what he's allowing I should say,
then woe is me to question it now,
I talk about this in my book that there is a difference,
between asking God questions and questioning God and I think it is normal and
right and good for us to ask God questions because in that questioning, we get closer to him.
Now, questioning God is different, and it's not like the unpardonable sin here.
But questioning God is saying, are you good?
You can ask God questions while still knowing that he's good and still knowing
that he works things for your good and his glory, but you can ask him questions.
That's what the laments are, right?
Now, if you start questioning God, that's where you have to go back to a more
foundational theology more foundational steps to say, okay, what do I believe about God?
And that's where I would go back to and say, am I interpreting God by my circumstances?
Or am I interpreting my circumstances by who I know God to be?
And so in the end, Job gets more of God. He gets so much more of God.
Now, that's the point. and yet again growing up in a prosperity gospel church,
and theology that treated god as a vending machine what i was told about the story of job,
was yeah yeah skip to the end of job and he gets double everything he gets he
like look at if you're faithful to god you will get double everything like that's
the message i was told about Job.
Be faithful to God and do what he says and look at a double portion, baby.
Do you know how that's actually talked about in the book of Job?
It's an afterthought. It's a footnote.
Towards the end of Job, if you read it properly, you see that,
no, the point of what Job got was more of God.
He got a better understanding of God. He got a proper theology.
He got more of a relationship with the Almighty. And oh, by the way,
He didn't end up getting more stuff.
Like, it's not the main point. It's not the main point at all.
And yet we in our sinfulness make it the main point.
And what the book of Job is telling us is no, God loves us.
He loves us enough to go through suffering because in going through suffering, we get more of God.
We get more of him. And it is so amazing.
And that's been true in my life. That's been true in my anxiety,
my OCD, and boy am I going to drop a bomb on you here in my alcoholism.
What? Yes.
And here's where I say this. Even though I wrote my first book about having
anxiety and OCD, about going through these stuff, about going through suffering,
about having this proper theology of suffering,
what I didn't know was going to happen after I published my book is I was going
to I thought I did a lot of healing and I did I did a lot of stuff,
but I went through the toughest toughest moments of my life in the year and a half,
after publishing my book stuff that,
I hadn't properly prepared for. I thought I did.
And I became an alcoholic. A Christian alcoholic.
Think about that for a second. You know, we love stories of people who are alcoholics
that become Christians.
Like we make movies and videos about them at church.
We don't do much with the people who are Christians who become alcoholics.
The Christians who become heroin addicts.
The Christians who cheat on their wives.
And the problem, I think, with that is it's led to us not fully understanding
the power and the necessity of sanctification.
That is the episode that I'll be talking with Dr. Warren about,
the Christian alcoholic one.
Not Dr. Lee, the Christian alcoholic one. The one, the podcast,
the Christian alcoholic one.
And so, but I want to mention that because I also don't want you to think that
even just embracing this proper theology of suffering is enough to placate God
and then he gives you what you want.
Like that's not true either. Having right thoughts and right presuppositions
and all that stuff is good and you need that.
They are not a replacement for a relationship.
One of the things I realized after publishing my book is I fell out of relationship with God.
I want to be careful here that you understand. I'm not saying I lost my salvation.
I think sometimes I say, do you have a relationship with Jesus?
And we mean that in a very broad sense. I'm meaning this in a very specific sense.
When the winds came and the storms blew after I published my book on mental health,
my very specific relationship with Jesus, I fell out of that.
And even though I knew all the right things to say and do, I didn't do them.
And so what I want you to know is that suffering is an ongoing battle.
And it's not predicated. You won't suffer just because you know the right things.
You have to be in a relationship with Jesus. That proper theology of suffering,
when I say it's interpreting your circumstances by who you know God is instead
of interpreting God by your circumstances, it's not.
That first part, interpreting your circumstances by who you know God is,
the key to that is abiding in him and having a relationship with him.
Not a general relationship.
I mean an ongoing, real relationship with him.
So for me, that looks like I get up early every morning. I used to be a guy
that made fun of those quiet time people.
Oh my gosh, if I had one more person tell me to have a quiet time.
Because back then it was just a checkbox it's just a duty it was one thing to
placate god it was one thing to say or do to earn his favor now it's done out
of an abundance i can't not,
i can't not for christmas my wife got me a metal sign that she had laser engraved,
And it's this quote from Martin Luther that has come to just be a calling card for my life.
And he says this, I have so much to do today that I must spend the first three hours in prayer.
Oh my gosh, John, does that mean you spend three hours in prayer every morning?
Sometimes. Not all the time.
But sometimes. Sometimes I'm up at four and I'm spending time with the Lord
till seven. And that's not because I'm so spiritual.
You know why it is? It's because I know how desperate I am for him.
When you become a Christian alcoholic and come to the end of yourself,
you realize how desperately you need Jesus.
So how do you cultivate that proper theology of suffering?
You have to be desperate for Jesus. And so that's what I want to encourage you to do today.
Take a step towards cultivating that relationship with him. And I'm telling
you that that proper theology of suffering will be birthed out of that.
So if you want to not judge God by your circumstances and instead judge your
circumstances by who you know God to be, I want to encourage you today to abide with him.
And I'm telling you it'll change your life.
It changed mine.
So, how was that? How were those two episodes? Was that good?
Was that helpful? Let me know.
I'm on Instagram at John Seidel. J-O-N-S as in Sam. E as in elephant. I-D as in dog.
L. John Seidel on Instagram.
You can also find me at johnseidel.com.
You can keep up. I have a book coming out in October, October 7th,
called Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic, where I will get into way more
of my alcoholic and alcoholism story and what I learned about God in that aspect.
I'd also love to have you join me as
I send out a daily devotional at theveritasdaily.com, theveritasdaily.com.
I send that out. It's an overflow of the time that I told you I spend every morning with God.
And so I spend time with him. I pray with him.
I talk with him. And from there, I write whatever he wants me to say.
And if that sounds too weird to you, I'm sorry, but I think you'll enjoy it.
So, listen, I want to thank you so much for joining me on the Spiritual Brain Surgery Podcast.
Please, I really would like you
to subscribe and make sure that you never miss an episode of this show.
Because not only do I love what Dr. Lee does, but I love that he allows people
like me with messy sanctification stories to come and guest host and tell you
my story and call you to something better than I'm calling myself to as well.
So please, be sure to like and subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode.
And remember what our friend, Dr. Lee Warren, always says, you can't change
your life until you change your mind. And the good news is, you can start today.
Talk to you soon. I told you, I told you, John Seidel.
He's the man. What a great look at suffering, theology, what God's doing,
what you're doing when you're hurting.
I know it was helpful to you. Check out John's website. His sub stack is amazing.
He writes every day, the Veritas Daily, and his books, I'm telling you,
his upcoming book, Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic, not available for pre-order
yet, but he's going to be on the show to promote that when it's time.
Incredible. I had the great honor of reading an early copy. He got to endorse that book.
I think the world of John and the work that he's doing and the people he's helping,
like me, like you, all over the world, good luck today at suffering.
Hey, John Seidel, I hope you enjoyed that. God bless you, friend.
Spiritual Brain Surgery will be back every week. We've got a new Tuesdays with
Tata episode for next week.
Stay tuned for that. It's going to be a good one. For now, remember,
you can't change your life until you change your mind.
I'm Dr. Lee Warren. It's been a pleasure to be with you for Spiritual Brain
Surgery today. God bless you, friend.