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Matt and Sean talk about petulance, “culture”, acceptance, and new Klingon battlecruisers in Star Trek: The Original Series, Season 3, Episode 13, "Elaan of Troyius.”
Matt and Sean talk about petulance, “culture”, acceptance, and new Klingon battlecruisers in Star Trek: The Original Series, Season 3, Episode 13, "Elaan of Troyius.”
- (00:00) - - Intro
- (03:48) - - Viewer Feedback
- (04:16) - - Today's Episode
- (07:56) - - This Time in History
- (14:50) - - Episode Discussion
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Creators and Guests
What is Trek In Time?
Join Sean and Matt as they rewatch all of Star Trek in order and in historical context.
Sean Ferrell: In this episode of Trek in Time, we're talking about how to eat green chicken. Welcome, everybody, to Trek in Time, where we're taking a look at all episodes of Star Trek in chronological stardate order. We're also taking a look at the world at the time of original broadcast. So here we are in episode 13 of season three, the 57th episode produced, the 68th aired overall. This is Elaan of Troyius, originally broadcast on December 20th, 1968. I'm Sean Ferrell. I'm a writer. I write some sci fi, I write some horror. And with me, as always, is my brother Matt. He is that Matt behind Undecided with Matt Ferrell, which takes a look at emerging tech and its impact on our lives. So between the two of us, we got the fiction, we got the science. Put them together, you get science fiction. What does that mean? That means Star Trek. Matt, how are you today?
Matt Ferrell: I'm good. There's actually two things I wanted to bring up that are just random tangents I think tracking time listeners and watchers will enjoy. If you haven't been watching Vince Gilligan's new show on Apple tv, Pluribus. Oh Boy, gotta watch that show. It is probably the best first two episodes of any show I have ever seen, ever. It comes out of the gate punching and I love Vince Gilligan. It feels to me, Sean, like watching X Files from back in the day. And I am loving every minute of it. So highly recommended. Second thing was, I don't think you were, Sean, but I'm kind of a huge Stargate fan and just saw news yesterday that they're coming out with a new Stargate show with the original producers from the Stargate SG1 shows is going to be coming on Amazon prime at some point in the next couple years. And I almost jumped out of my chair of like, yes, it's not a Stargate, it's a Fargate. I'm really excited, really excited that that's coming back as well.
Sean Ferrell: The only show of the Stargate universe that I enjoyed and legitimately was like, oh, I'm into this and I want to keep watching. It was Stargate Universe, which.
Matt Ferrell: That was like the best one.
Sean Ferrell: That was a premise that I was just like, this is amazing. And it just didn't. It just didn't have the legs. I think it suffered from fatigue. I think it suffered from Stargate's fatigue in the same way that we saw Star Trek suffer as Voyager was finishing. And it was like, this has been a lot of years of this show. And the writers and producers and audience are all kind of tired. And I saw news about the Stargate return as well. And what I saw was the online community debating will it be a reboot or will it be a sequel? And I question you.
Matt Ferrell: It's not a reboot.
Sean Ferrell: It's not a reboot, so it's a sequel.
Matt Ferrell: I watched an interview with the creators and they said it's, as they put a chapter from. It's going to be its own distinct thing, but it's going to feel very Stargate.
Sean Ferrell: So my question to you is, do you think that's the right way to go?
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, I don't think there's any need to redo SG1 or the other Stargates, Atlantis and all that stuff. It's kind of like Star Trek. There's no need to redo it. It's like just find a new part of the story that you want to kind of tell. There's plenty of room, so go for it.
Sean Ferrell: We'll see. If I can imagine with Amazon prime money, it's going to look really good. So hopefully the writing. So hopefully the writing is top notch too. So looking forward to that. So, normally, before we get into our conversation about the newest episode, we're taking a look at, we like to visit your comments, but this week we don't have comments because we have recently realigned our recording schedule, which means you all haven't seen what you'll be talking about yet. But you will. You will see it and then you'll comment and then we'll see it. So we'll see you then. On now to our discussion about the current episode. Yes, that noise, those flashing lights, it means it's time for the Wikipedia description. Matt, good luck. Just like last week, you're gonna have to buckle up because it's a long one.
Matt Ferrell: As you say, with, I think it's one sentence. While transporting an arrogant, demanding, spoiled princess for a political marriage, Captain Kirk must cope both with her biochemical ability to force him to love her and sabotage on his ship. It's oddly worded there at the end, a little bit so terribly it makes it sound like she's doing the sabotage on the ship.
Sean Ferrell: It is. And it is written in a way that it's sabotage on the ship.
Matt Ferrell: Yes.
Sean Ferrell: As opposed to sabotaging the ship. And it implies that she's doing it with her biochemical ability, which.
Matt Ferrell: Yes.
Sean Ferrell: Jump into the comments, everybody. What would a biochemical ability to sabotage a ship be? Because I can't think of anything. So let us know. Elaan of Troyius Season 3, Episode 13, directed and written by John Meredith Lucas. Oh, John Meredith. He thought he could get away with one. It originally broadcast on December 20, which means last week we talked about Spectre of the Gun, which was, I believe, if I remember correctly, the sixth episode of this season. So the first episode they produced for season two was episode six. The second episode they produced was episode 13. This is basically December 20, 1968. To me, that feels a little bit like throw it at Christmas. So we'll see why in a minute as we get into that. Here we have, amongst the guest appearances, France Nuyen as Elaan. France Nuyen has her acting credits cross paths with William Shatner a good number of times. They were in a stage production together. They also did another TV series, an episode or two together a couple of years after this. So I don't know about you, Matt. One of the things that I picked up in this episode, they have chemistry, but they also seem to have good rapport. Yes, I think there's a level of trust there between actors that have worked together before. On display also in this one, Jay Robinson is Ambassador Petri, Tony Young, Lee Duncan, Victor Brandt, K.L. Smith, Dick Durock, Charles Beck, Frank Da Vinci, William Blackburn, Roger Holloway. And let us say a fond farewell. This is the last episode with Eddie Paskey as Lieutenant Leslie. He has been in, it feels like every single episode up to this point. So farewell to Lieutenant Leslie. Pour one out, pour one out, Pour one out for the les. Amongst the regular crew, correct me if I'm wrong, we see everybody.
We have William Shatner, Lenard Nimoy, DeForest Kelley, James Doohan, Nichelle Nichols, George Takei, Walter Koenig and even Magel Barrett as Christine Chapel in a scene in which she says, hey, give me some exposition, will you? And Ambassador Petri says, I'd be glad to give you some exposition. So what was the world like on December 20, 1968, when this episode was broadcast? Yes, Matt, you heard it through the grapevine because the number one song was Marvin Gaye singing I Heard it through the grapevine. Take it away, Matt. You know everybody, if you're like me and you like to close your eyes, when Matt is doing that, it's almost like Marvin Gaye is in the room grinding his teeth. And at the movies, people were lining up to see a film called Funny Girl. This is the 1968 American biographical film directed by Billy Wyler and written by Isabel Leonard, adapted from the stage musical of the same name, starring a little known actress named Barbara Streisand. Hmm, Wonder who she is. It also starred Omar Sharif, Kay Medford, Anne Francis and Walter Pidgeon. It is about the career and life of Fanny Brice. And on television we're taking a look at the schedule that was the shows that were on around Star Trek, both competitors on other networks and the lead in shows for Star Trek itself. Friday nights usually historically kind of the huh, evening of the broadcast schedule because well, people go out on Friday nights. So it was either kid friendly programming or programming that they didn't know what else to do with. Then that includes this week's entry, 9:00pm on ABC, the Don Rickles Show. It was a short lived comedy variety television series that aired on ABC from September 27th, 1968 to January 31st of 69. It starred Don Rickles, of course, known for his insult comedy and to certain aspects of our audience, probably a potato.
And it featured a mix of musical celebrities, comedy sketches and guest appearances by celebrities such as Richard Harris, Carol Burnett, Kirk Douglas, Mickey Rooney and others. We always like to show a image. This is after all not just a podcast that you might be listening to on Spotify or Apple podcasts, but it is a YouTube program. So we like to include images for the people who are sitting there watching the screen and they can say, well, there's Don Rickles. Now this is an image of Don Rickles and I'm looking at a picture of him right now. Yeah, this image is not from this program. This image is not from the Don Rickles show broadcast on ABC from 9-27-1968 to 1-31-69. This is from the Don Rickles show broadcast on CBS years later. That's right. Don Rickles has had two shows named the Don Rickles show and this show that we're talking about, the Sketch Variety Show. I couldn't find any images because every time I looked for the Don Rickles show it would show me this, this image. It'd be like, oh, you mean the Don Rickles show, the sketch. Not the sketch comedy show but the sitcom. Yeah, I didn't mean the sitcom. So here you are looking at Don Rickles and he's a few years older than he was when he was in the show that we're actually talking about in 1968. So that's that. And in the news, well, it's the end of the year, usually a quiet time headline wise. So we have some things about criminal investigations, looking into some claims by a Jersey legislator about mafia pressure to do certain things. There was President Johnson talking about the federal budget, was going to be larger the following year. He, of course, at this point is no longer president. The election has taken place in the past in November. So everybody knows that in just a month's time, In January of 69, Richard Nixon will be sworn into president, into the presidency.
So this is a lot of just kind of like nuts and bolts, day to day sort of news headlines. But it made me think about something, made me question, okay, here it is, the end of 1968. What are the major news stories that have taken place in the past year? As a refresher to everybody, as we've been talking about many of these news stories week in and week out, as we talked about Star Trek, yes, we're talking about things like the Ted Offensive in Vietnam, which took place in January of 1968. We talked about that quite a bit because it haunted the US endeavors in Vietnam through the beginning of 1968 and played a big part in Johnson choosing not to run for reelection. The worm had turned in the US as far as the view of the Vietnam conflict, we also saw in April, and we touched base on this just a few weeks ago as we reached the episode that preceded the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. On April 4, 1968. We never discussed the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy in June of 1968 because it was during the summer hiatus of the program. So we never had an episode that, that overlapped with that news headline, but that happened in the middle of the year. We also had In August of 1968, the clashes at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, the famous photographs you've probably all seen showing protesters outside the convention center being sprayed with fire hoses and being arrested in large groups and beaten by police as they tried to protest calling for civil rights. And finally, August 20th, another point in time. Both these headlines from August would have been during the summer hiatus when we would not have had any programs to discuss. The Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia on August 20 to crush a rebellion which was known as the Prague spring. So these five headlines from 1968 are arguably the biggest stories from that year.
Interesting that some of them ended up taking place in a gap when we didn't have programming. But all of them helped shape the news headlines that we see here at the end of the year and heading into the beginning of next year, we'll continue to see the reverberations of these stories. On now to our discussion of this episode. Matt, I feel I don't recall which of us jumped off last week and talked about it. I feel like it was me Because I let the cat out of the bag. Spectre of the gun, one of my favorites. I couldn't help but right at the beginning of the episode, say, this is one of the best. So this time around, let me throw it in your lap. Okay, here it is.
Matt Ferrell: Okay.
Sean Ferrell: What do you think about this one?
Matt Ferrell: We've talked many times about how the show is so inconsistent. Well, guess what? It is consistently inconsistent. And this is a good example. I do like that you pointed out that this. Since we're watching in chronological order according to the show, this is what, episode 12 or 13 of the aired season was the second one we're watching. Yeah.
Sean Ferrell: Woof.
Matt Ferrell: It's like from the first one they did to this one in chronological order. It is like a record scratch. I'm not gonna say this episode is devoid of anything enjoyable. There are moments I enjoyed, but wow, man. The misogyny, the. The treatment of women. Just the. I wrote down, what was it? Kirk basically trying to break a woman and saying to Spock, the women on your planet are. The women on your planet are logical, Mr. Spock. Yours is the only planet that can claim that.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: That summarizes this entire episode. And I find it so surprising because there was the. The misogyny took over the entire episode where there was the potential for a more accessible storyline around hatred and bigotry and. Yeah, you know, peace. Give peace a chance, find compromise. That was there, but it was almost there. Just like a sprinkling of it at a high level and there was no meat to it, where.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: I don't know what. I. So confused. It's like they could have made that the more deeper part of the conversation. Instead, they leaned into tropes about women being overly emotional and immature and men having to basically tame them and break them and fall in love with them. Uh, the. The spanking, the. The. I. I'm basically broken, Sean, because I can't. I can't. I can't give this episode, like, a good review because of just how bad it was for the treatment of women.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: And at a time when the women's movement, feminism, was really starting to kind of like, kick in at this point in history.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: This just flies in the face of that every which way. And it just. Again, Star Trek is supposed to be a progressive show, and then they put out episodes like this. I know it's the time. I know it's the time. So you have to cut them a little bit of slack. But that's where I'm having the dissonance problem of Feminism and women's rights were percolating at this time. And to put out an episode like this is so tone deaf. That's why I'm just struggling.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah, this is. I. I don't disagree with anything you had to say. I think this is the episode that they could make in 1968. Yeah, I think it, it's one of those times where it, it's so rooted in the era that it was made in that it can't be anything else. Because as progressive as your ideals may be, we are all at a certain point challenged to recognize our blind spots. And this is a case where they weren't able to do it in creating a story that would challenge something like you've laid out is like, yeah, there's a story here that could be told a different way. I will. This is not meant to be a full throated defense of this episode. They almost make the exact same episode in next generation 20 years later.
Matt Ferrell: Yes.
Sean Ferrell: And it's just as bad.
Matt Ferrell: Horrible.
Sean Ferrell: And you can say 1968, it's the era of Mad Men. They didn't know any better. And they were talking about the women's movement as either a passing fad or something to fight against or who cares? And. And the 1970s is when I think the women's movement really stands up and says, like, this is a thing. In 1968, I think there was still a lot of like, oh, they got to get back in the kitchen. But it's not so much like, oh, there's an actual attempt to get an amendment passed. So here we are in 1968 and they make this. And I kept watching it and thinking, like, has. Yeah, it's touching a bad wire again and again and again. And I kept thinking, and they remade it in the 80s with Picard and Femke Jensen. And I kept thinking like, wow, like. And it's. I had forgotten enough of this episode. This is one of the cases where the cold open. I was like, what episode is this? Until she appeared on the transporter platform. And I was just like, oh, this one?
Matt Ferrell: Yes.
Sean Ferrell: And then watch the entire episode feeling like. I feel like they just took the same script and gave it to Patrick Stewart. And I wasn't.
Matt Ferrell: That episode on Next Generation from the first two seasons, wasn't it in season one or season two?
Sean Ferrell: I think it might have been, because.
Matt Ferrell: So that's when Roddenberry had his fingers all over that. And that would explain why they did.
Sean Ferrell: It again because, yeah, Roddenberry was So it is difficult to do. But as you said, and we talked about this last week. I mentioned on this watch through, I'm discovering really, oh, for me, Star Trek is a kind of big ball made up of a lot of individual little moments that have knitted all together to create this great nostalgic feeling. And then as we watch these episodes, I'm like, oh, every episode has like three, three good moments. And then if you get more than that, it's gravy. And if you don't, you get this. So I'm like, yeah, okay, I'm watching this. And I'm like, I was, I was struck by a couple of things. First of all, I think that we mentioned her earlier, France Nuyen. She does a great job with a terrible role. Yes, she's really, she's really, really good. And I'm just like, boy, if she had been in any other episode as a love interest, as a villainous, as a. Like, we have an episode that's going to come up in a few episodes which revolves around a Romulan plot. And I'm like, she would have been great as of. As a Romulan nemesis to Kirk. Like the, the way that the, the chemistry that they have, I felt really could have been used to great ends. And yeah, not a great episode, but I was watching and I'm like, when she's on screen, you really can't look away. She's really, really good. And I feel like, is she one of those actresses who in the 60s, just because of ethnicity, was not going to find the roles, but she was better than a lot of other people around who were getting those roles. And so I'm looking at the performance from that angle and I'm like, wow, it's really, you know, it's not a great role, but it's a great performance and I really like it.
Matt Ferrell: Yes, it is.
Sean Ferrell: I, I also want to point out this is the first time that this class of Klingon worship was presented in Star Trek. The clips from this episode would be reused. We will see these exact clips again. I would also like to say I'm watching the remastered version and with the remastered version, the battle sequences in this one, the way it's all filmed was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed, I really enjoyed it. And there have been a couple of responses online. Some basically, as every 10 years or so there's another cycle of, let's rate all of the episodes of Star Trek and let's give them all grades. And so this has been done again and again and again. This episode divides people into two camps. One Camp is it's not a good episode because it's just Taming of the Shrew with very little done to it to make it in any way Star Trek. And then the other response is, well, once you get past them hooking up, you don't get what you think you might get, which would be Kirk screwing up the wedding and freeing a woman from being treated like commerce. Instead, you get a lot of interesting battle sequences. And from that angle, this episode, from that point forward, as far as the outwitting the Klingon battlecruiser and being able to do what they need to do, it's a really intriguing episode just in those scenes, because as opposed to other episodes where you get to see Kirk, like, Corbomite maneuver like, well, we're gonna blow up our special secret weapon. And he's out thinking the enemy in a kind of intellectual capacity, this is an episode where you are seeing him as the tactician in a way you don't normally get to see in these episodes where he is this part of the movie, maneuvering the battle mastery of a Klingon. And I found myself really, really engaged by that. With Sulu, you got to keep our shields between us and him.
And when Sulu doesn't do it and he's like, Sulu, I said, do that.
Matt Ferrell: It's like, it can't go that fast. I can't.
Sean Ferrell: I can't move the ship fast enough. I just don't have the right maneuverability. But he's doing the best he can. And you get. There's one shot where he's giving Sulu commands and he basically puts George Takei into a hug. He's like, got one arm on his shoulder and his other arm on his arm, his hand on his arm. And he's just like, kind of cradling Sulu. He's like, move him into position. And I'm like, this is fascinating because you don't normally. These episodes were usually built around, I will find the peaceful solution or I will outwit people to get out of danger. I really, really liked. I don't have an operating ship, but I am going to beat this Klingon. Even to the point where before he knows that he has the lithium crystals in her necklace, he says to the dolmen, we're not gonna die. He says it in a way that's just like, we're losing, but we're gonna be okay. And I'm like, classic Kirk.
Matt Ferrell: I loved it.
Sean Ferrell: Well, that.
Matt Ferrell: The whole battle sequence, it felt. I'm not. I'm not saying it's at this caliber, but it's like, hunt for Red October or Das Boot or like, pick your submarine naval battle kind of thing. It felt like that where it's.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: These two huge ships passing each other, taking shots at each other. And it was. I. That was the part of the episode, Sean, that was my favorite part was all of that. Yeah. Take the misogyny stuff aside. There actually is something else. Thinking about it. Can we talk about the costumes for just a brief moment?
Sean Ferrell: Oh, absolutely.
Matt Ferrell: The show had its budget slashed. I know that. So when they first show up on the ship, the two big strapping dudes that show up to protect the Queen.
Sean Ferrell: They're dressed to go play highlight.
Matt Ferrell: They're. Yeah, they. Though. I can't believe they put those on. They were like, yeah, that looks good. Let's go with it. It's like, no. Can we just maybe put them in a regular costume or something? Because this looks really bad. No, they went with it. The second part of the costumes I found hysterical was the Queen's costume changes. There was a sequence near the end, Sean. She changed.
Sean Ferrell: She disappeared.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, yeah, three times. She changed costumes. And the amount of time that took place in the episode was probably like 10 minutes or 20 minutes. And she came back on the bridge. It was like, wait, this is a different costume than you were just had when you just got kicked off the bridge. And only, like, minutes have passed. What. What are you doing?
Sean Ferrell: It's like, you know, they shot it out of. You know, they shot it out of order. And that somebody. There was no continuity expert because somebody screwed up because she's. He's like, you've got to go down to the sick bay. It's the most protected part of the ship. You've got to go there. And she goes down wearing a dress that is open down the entire side. And yes, I remember that because in that moment where she, like, she throws herself in one of the attack runs toward the, the doors of the, of the turbo lift. And you could see very clearly it is open all the way down. And I noted that because I was like, okay, that's an unusual design, but also she looks stunning in it. And I was like. I was like, wow, that's really quite in a. Like, it's quite an image that she strikes in that outfit. And she goes down to sickbay, and then she's like, I can't be away from him. And she goes back up and she's wearing a completely different outfit. And I was like, you literally were wearing something that was so breaking we are going to remember it. This isn't like, wait, did her costume, did that flower move positions or did the blood stain move or wasn't his jacket open? And now it's closed. It was literally, Literally, like completely different. My darling Kirk, I couldn't be away from you, so I, as soon as I went back to my cabin and changed my outfit, I came back like, huh, like distracting.
Matt Ferrell: Is this.
Sean Ferrell: You didn't want me here. Was it because of the slit that went down my entire side? Because I took that dress off and I put this one on. It's a little more modest. And I put on this necklace and it was also. I don't remember her having the necklace on in the first time she was on the bridge. And then she leaves and comes back and now she's wearing the necklace. Correct. All right.
Matt Ferrell: Yes.
Sean Ferrell: Like, really? Also, yeah. These are just common stones, the dilithium crystals. They make the claim that the planet is a part of the Federation.
Matt Ferrell: They would have known this.
Sean Ferrell: How would nobody? Like, they would. This is also during an era of Star Trek where, you know, at a certain point in Next Generation they make it clear to be a member of the Federation, a planet needs to have a societal stature of a certain level. And you do not have first contact until they have space faring technology that includes warp. Because it's the whole, ah, they're in warp. They're now going to start running into all of us. So we're going to go to them and say like, hey, we noticed you got warp. We're all here. That's the logic of all that. And I love that here you have two planets where they're like, they do not have warp technology and yet they are technology because against the parts of the Federation. They are both parts of the Federation, but, but they are also actively in conflict. And I'm like.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, how?
Sean Ferrell: All right. Also, this isn't to throw mud at the episode, but I feel like this is. They lost an opportunity to have an engaging, intriguing Klingon villain.
Matt Ferrell: Yes.
Sean Ferrell: Because they just went with. I mean, he basically comes across as a bureaucrat. Like I said surrender. And then he goes away, comes back. Did I mention surrender? And then goes away. Hey, guess what rhymes with Barender. That's right. And it's like, okay, we get it. Like he's just there to be a threat. It would have like, I, I flashed back to Star Trek Undiscovered Country. Like the, the chess match between the captain and the Klingon nemesis in that film. I know this episode was focused not on that, but it would have been nice if it had been somebody with a little more personality, somebody a little more willing to chew the scenery a bit as a Klingon. Would have been fun. So the last thing I want to visit in this episode is the opportunities that they have for some of the secondary characters. And I like the fact that Uhura gets a little more screen time in this. She's showing up in places that are not the bridge in order to communicate information to the captain. I thought that that was nicely done. They give Sulu some nice opportunities to demonstrate. Like, I'm trying to fly a bathtub here. So, like, anything that you get out of this, as far as maneuverability is because of my skills as a pilot. I liked that. You also get a lot of Scotty doing all the nuance of, like, how do you. He and Spock put together the dilithium crystal matrix by hand.
Matt Ferrell: On the fly.
Sean Ferrell: On the fly. And, like, we're going to have to test it. And it's going to be, like, it's going to take us a while to test it to make sure it's not going to blow up the ship. Like, you get a first. The first test will be when we. When we launch weapons at the enemy. So you get a lot of that. You get nothing out of Chekov except for a. Well, they're limping away. And, like, thanks so much for that, Pavel. But you get another nice moment between McCoy and Spock in the very closing scene. And I like, there's also one earlier in the episode when they walk in on Kirk while he's making out with the dolmen.
Matt Ferrell: That sequence, I love Sean.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah, we'll talk about that.
Matt Ferrell: It was funny. It was funny the way they were kissing and the, Spocks at the door, ringing the door, ringing the door. And then you hear the door open and the camera pulls back and Kirk realizes he's being seen. He kind of recoils and pulls back. That whole scene was just charming to me. I thought it was very funny. And the way that McCoy and Spock handle it.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: Is just chef's kiss. Just Spock being Spock is just emotionless about it. Of like, could we speak to you, captain?
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: But McCoy almost looked like this, like, little, like. Yeah, Captain, can you come on here? Like, it was just handled so well.
Sean Ferrell: I liked that there was a subtlety to McCoy's response, which was he repeated the urgency of the need to talk. And you get the sense of. He's like, did you touch her tears? Yeah, he's Like, I know what's going on here. Like, yes, this isn't Kirk being Kirk. It's like, there's a certain aspect to it which is, I imagine in Spock's mind, Spock is just like, Kirk is.
Matt Ferrell: Going to Kirk, but McCoy is like, he wouldn't do this right now.
Sean Ferrell: Oh, yeah, that's what I mean is.
Matt Ferrell: Like, it was clear McCoy was having fun with it, but also alarmed because he knows Kirk would not do that at this moment. Yeah, I got the impression from Spock. Spock's like, kirk's gonna.
Sean Ferrell: Kirk.
Matt Ferrell: Kirk. Yeah, Kirk's gonna.
Sean Ferrell: They have that moment. And I will say this, too. Like, the. The show has misogyny. And we've talked about that. We talked about, like, it's. It's rooted in the. In the era that it was made in as a conceit. The idea that the woman's tears would do this to the captain at a base level. I don't have. I don't have a lot of difficulty with that as a plot device. I don't have a lot of difficulty with, like, the idea that he didn't know I shouldn't touch the tears. Oh, now it's done this thing to me, and I can't not see her as the focal point of what I'm supposed to be doing. This is one of the things that in the episode, I don't like the overall arc of the story. I don't like what they're doing. But Shatner's performance around that as an element of him as captain from that moment onto the end, I thought Shatner did a terrific job with that tension of. All I can do is think about this woman, and when she's around me, I can't do my job. But my job is to save everybody on this ship. Because we're currently limping around on impulse, and we got this giant new Klingon ship on our tail. And I thought it's another example of the era of acting that Shatner was trapped in because of, like, he got typecast as this character, was not given opportunities to do a lot of things beyond this character. As a result, probably started coasting on jobs and name recognition instead of evolving as an actor, and then became a punching bag with a cliche of, oh, Shatner's an over actor and he's terrible. But you watch an episode like this, this is of. And in the era. And I watched this, and I was like, this is really, really good. He's very good in this one. So I just wanted to.
Matt Ferrell: I had the same feeling like when he was. You could see him trying to hold. He was trying to grapple with how he was feeling versus his responsibilities. And it came across clearly, and it was handled very well today. It would have been overacting, but for the time, I agree with you. It was very, very good for the time.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah. And I think there are some nice moments where. Where he gets a look on his face where you can tell what's going through him is what just happened.
Matt Ferrell: Yes.
Sean Ferrell: He's like, what just happened? Something turned on, and I now can't take my hands off this woman. And it's just. It's really, really nicely handled. And then it's nicely handled as it moves through the rest of the episode so that he's on the bridge and he's doing everything he needs to do. And then, as I mentioned before, we get a very nice moment at the end when McCoy comes in all excited. I unlocked the cure. He's figured out the cure for these tears that other scientists have failed at. And Spock, wryly says, no need. He already had a cure. And you get a subtle dig. So subtle. But you get a dig at the end that is so subtle, where, well, there's no cure for the Enterprise. And Spock says, for this one time, I agree with you. And did you notice, as the camera then pulls back, McCoy gives Spock a double look as he realizes he's been insulted. Did you notice that? Because Spock's line is, for this one time, I do agree with you. And then the camera pulls back to show you Kirk signing documents and being the captain. And in the background, McCoy smiles and then stops and gives him a look that's just like, idiot. You just insulted me, you jerk. And it's very subtly done. So I like that moment, too. So this one, again, would. It feels like a broken record at this point. Moments I like with a plot that just leaves me saying, like, ugh. But as opposed to going to a planet full of Nazis or a planet full of mobsters or a planet full of Romans, this one at least felt like they were. They were doing a thing. They were doing a thing. As opposed to just, like, throwing a bunch of costumes that they had in the lot already and be like, go out and be Nazis, and then Kirk and Spock will fight you. Like, this felt like, okay, this is. This is trying to be a thing.
Matt Ferrell: And I agree.
Sean Ferrell: And there are parts of it that I think are enjoyable. So, viewers, listeners, let us know, what did you think about this one? Jump into the Comments do you think that this is a bitter pill with some levels of sexism and misogyny that linger from the late 1960s? Or do you think that the elements of it that are more engaging, like the Klingon battlecruiser and the performances of the actors in the episode, do you think it pushes it up a level and makes it more watchable? Let us know what you think about that. As always, your comments are greatly appreciated. We didn't share any of them in this episode, but that wasn't because we didn't want to. It's because, as I mentioned, schedule changes. So please jump into the comments. And while you're doing that, don't forget to like, subscribe, share with your friends. Those are all very easy ways for you to support the program. Next time we will be talking about the episode Paradise Syndrome. So as you're jumping into the comments to let us know what you thought about this conversation, wrong answers only. What is Paradise Syndrome about? I look forward to finding out what you all have to say about that. And Matt, is there anything that you wanted to share with our viewers and listeners about what you have coming up on your main channel?
Matt Ferrell: We're coming out with some typical stuff, Sean. End of year is coming. We're doing kind of a recap on solar technology from the past year. Some of the big breakthroughs, what's happening and what to keep an eye out for going forward.
Sean Ferrell: Don't forget, if you want to support us directly, you can click, you can go to trekintime.show, click the Join button there. It allows you to throw coins at our heads and signs you up for Out of Time, our spin off program in which we talk about things that don't fit within the confines of this program. As a matter of fact, Matt and I are about to record an episode of that in which we are going to discuss the podcast on. So if you're interested in checking that out, we hope you'll be interested in joining us in our Out of Time subscription. Thank you so much everybody for taking the time to watch or listen and we'll talk to you next time.