When Rebbe Nachman Met the Alter Rebbe

What happened when two of the greatest lights of Chassidus—Rebbe Nachman of Breslov and the Alter Rebbe of Chabad—met face to face?

Jon Rav Shlomo in this thrilling shiur as he takes us inside the documented meetings between Rebbe Nachman and Rav Shneur Zalman of Liadi, revealing a world of hidden respect, deep spiritual exchange, and historical tensions between Breslov and Chabad.

We explore how a 27-year-old Rebbe Nachman, fresh from Eretz Yisrael, journeyed straight to the Alter Rebbe without even stopping at home. What was said? What wasn’t? How did this meeting impact both movements and hint at a shared future?

Featuring rare sources from both Chabad and Breslov traditions—including Masa Berditshev, Chayei Moharan, and firsthand letters—this shiur invites us to be “flies on the wall” at one of the most awe-inspiring encounters in Jewish history.

Topics covered:

The meeting in Liozna in 1799 and again in 1810

The spiritual tension between different Hasidic dynasties

Rebbe Nachman’s cryptic title for the Alter Rebbe: “Sar HaElef”

The mystical bond between their descendants

What is The Wisdom of Rebbe Nachman of Breslov?

Rav Shlomo Katz delves into the wisdom of Rebbe Nachman of Breslov zy"a

Okay, good morning חבר'ה, good morning. We're learning ליל נשמס בסי פייגה בת ישראל, לוי בן יוסף, יוסנה בת יצחק and and פנחס מנחם בן אברהם דוד. ובפרט today is the יארצייט of my, uh, tonight's the יארצייט of my aunt חווה יטא בת חיים זליג יצחק הכהן. Her first יארצייט.

My mother's sister who our daughter is זוכה to be named after, חווה. Um, Um, today, today is a very, to me, this is a thrilling, here, pass these around, please. Thrilling, thrilling שיעור that that I've thought thought about about in, in, I I thought about this what we're going to be learning about for many years because what we're doing today is going into, we're going to be, be, uh, flies on the wall, flies on the wall. I don't know, fly on the wall.

I don't even know what what the the right, right, what, what, what the right terminology is. No, but fly on the wall is like, like, יאכסאם, I I don't don't know, know, like something more than fly, fly, I I don't know, flyby. Sometimes they bother us. A A person person that that hides hides under under the, the, a a person person that that hides hides under under the the bed, bed, much better, we're hiding under a table in the town of ליוזשנא this morning.

And in in our, our, in our discussions of רבי נחמן'ס traveling, when רבי נחמן came back from ארץ ישראל in, in, uh, in, uh, the summer of 1799, רבי נחמן meets the אלטער רבי. And this is the first of two meetings that רבי נחמן and the אלטער רבי had. Just to say those two names together, together, you you have have to to be, I'm sure you feel it, it, it's, it's, uh, it's מבהיל, it's frightening. It's awesome.

It's, It's, it's unbelievable. And we have, have, um, pretty, pretty clear and good documentation of what took place at these two meetings. It's based on a lot of ספרים that both in Lubavitch and in Breslov has, there's a lot of different רמזים and anecdotes from a lot of different places. But a number of years ago, I bought this ספר, it's a beautiful ספר called מסע ברדיטשוב.

מסע ברדיטשוב is actually from חב"ד, it's a רב named רב מנשה יאשיהו מאנשיין put together the אלטער רבי'ס journey that he made to ברסלב, ברדיטשוב and מז'יבוז' in, in, um, in the years, years, תקס"ט, this would be 1809, I believe. No, it's actually, it's a actually, number of different years. So, it's, it's So, a it's, journal of the אלטער רבי'ס, uh, journeys throughout everything. And so we And have this documentation coming more from a חב"ד source, but they needed a lot of info from ברסלבר sources to paint a full picture.So, the אלטער רבי is much older than רבי נחמן, right? The אלטער רבי of לובאוויטש is much older than רבי נחמן.

And רבי נחמן when he comes back from ארץ ישראל, how old is he? If he's coming back in 1799? 27. 27. Yeah. 27.

It's not Yeah. our It's 27, not it's our his 27. it's 20, his it's 27. right, 20, it's it's רבי נחמן'ס 27, which is our 85.

וואס מאַכסטו? אָ לַוַאי, אָ לַוַאי. אָ לַוַאי. What are you trying to חשבון? He was 54, He yeah? was The 54, אלטער רבי? More ממש like More yeah, mid-50s, yeah. 54, 55.

No. No. You know, the first thing that I wondered, the first thing that I thought about, I'll tell you the truth, was if I, was I if said I, to myself, if I, if if someone I, would ask me to like, draw an like, illustration of, of, illustration a of, color illustration of this meeting, what color would the אלטער רבי'ס beard be? That for some reason, we, we, we we, think we, of the אלטער רבי, we go, obviously because of the painting, the, the picture the, that we have is based on a portrait, right? But we go right away to an old man with a white, white beard. white, I'm thinking, you know, 50 was probably pretty grayish white, but grayish even a younger version of the אלטער רבי of what we've envisioned, right? And רבי נחמן'ס 27.

All we know about רבי נחמן in terms of a visual is that he had thin, long thin פאות and a scruffly red beard רבי נחמן had. He was had. a גינגי. Um, we have that from one of the descriptions in the, in in the the, ספרים.

But this meeting is, is פשוט is, awesome. It's, it's incredible. Now I want to actually, for the סדר of our learning, turn the page. It's the third page that you have will describe the meeting that we are going to be doing just chronologically.

And then we'll go to the first, to to the the first, second meeting that they had, which is more שייך to the chronology of this ספר.So here it starts off by saying about רבי נחמן and the אלטער רבי meeting, after it discussed, discussed the discussed, first meeting that they have written here, that wasn't the first meeting they had, but we'll go backwards afterwards. A little bit confusing, but you'll see. אך לא הייתה זו פגישתם הראשונה של שני צדיקים אלו. מעט יותר מעשר שנים לפני כן, 10 years prior to the second meeting that they had, ביקר הרב רבי נחמן בביתו של רבנו בליוזשנא.

רבי נחמן came to the came אלטער to רבי'ס the home. ביקור שמתקשר home. למסופר בפרק הקודם על רוח הפירוד שהחלה לנשב במכתביו של הרבי ר' אברהם מקאליסק אל רבנו משנת תקנ"ז ואילך. Let me try to explain.

Remember last week we were speaking a lot about ר' אברהם קאליסקער, ר' אברהם מקאליסק that that he together with with ר' מענדל מויטבסק, the students of the מגיד ממזריטש were the ones that made עלייה. And they were the ones that were handling also the מעות, the distribution of צדקה that was being collected by the חסידים, בפרט the אלטער רבי the from from from, you know, Ukraine from whatever you want to call that region then towards ארץ ישראל. And there was מחלוקת like there is in all these ענינים, but there was all these שאלות about where it's going, how it's being distributed, who should get, who shouldn't get, who should lead it, וכולי. And it caused, started to cause a bad smell, so much so that when רבי נחמן was coming to ארץ ישראל, remember there was a whole suspicion about him because they didn't know who he was, they were, there was a suspicion they about were, him saying, are you coming here to pose a threat to ר' אברהם מקאליסק or not? רבי נחמן had nothing to do with this.

But we see from letters that were written from the year 1797 on that ר' אברהם מקאליסק is writing letters to the אלטער רבי and they're very, they're very interesting letters, they're they're very, sad letters, not so happy, describing the tension that's happening right now. And רבי נחמן was ממש a peacemaker over here, as we'll see right now. סו את החודשים הראשונים של שנת תקנ"ט. So that means the first months of 1798, 1799, that year, right? עשה רבי נחמן בארץ 1798, ישראל.

The רבי was doing that in, in ארץ ישראל. That's when he, when he in, comes to ארץ ישראל is the night before the beginning of, of תקנ"ט. That's, you know, September 1798. So of, the of first few months of that year, רבי נחמן does in ארץ ישראל.

בהיותו בטבריה נפגש כמה פעמים עם הרב ר' אברהם מקאליסק, like we saw, he met him a few times. ובאחת מהן הבטיח לרב מקאליסק, in one of the meetings that times. they had, he made a promise to ר' אברהם מקאליסק שתכף בחזרתו לחוץ לארץ יסע אל רבנו הזקן. He's going to, as soon as he gets back, he's going to He's go to the אלטער רבי.

He promised ר' אברהם מקאליסק that he's going to go to the אלטער רבי. ויקח עמו דברים בקשר למעות ארץ ישראל. And he'll take with him words of appeasement to try to make שלום as to the whole, how the whole thing was being handled regarding the money the that whole, was, that was geared, you know, to, uh, that was coming that to was, ארץ that ישראל. was There geared, needed you to know, be to, שלום.

uh, There needed to be to a, there need There to needed be a middle person. You know, you see there's so much back then, the, the person. distance, You I mean, how long did it take for then, letters to even arrive? So there was so much lost in translation. Who was sending these funds? So the אלטער רבי was collecting them.

Who Yeah. was And sending there these was funds? what's, what's called שד"רים. שלוחי דרבנן. There were, there were these people what's, that what's would travel, that would be the ones to carry it.

I don't know about any type of mail service that, that functioned back then as to a trustworthy one that service would be the distributor of the funds, but that's what was going on. So he promises him, this is amazing. רבי נחמן promises ר' אברהם מקאליסק that when he goes back to home, he will stop by the, he will go to the אלטער רבי. And he will, he will speak with him.

Now, רבי נחמן at this time, home was a very relative concept as well, right? But it wasn't living right next to the, the אלטער רבי. right? ליוזשנא and the area where רבי נחמן was the, was quite far actually.But look what he says here. בגלל in the third paragraph. בגלל הבטחתו זו, because רבי נחמן here.

promised to make שלום with paragraph. the אלטער רבי. הנה בחזרתו מארץ ישראל ובבואו לעירו לביתו, he's coming back to his home in מעדוועדעווקע. לא ירד כלל מן העגלה להיכנס הביתה.

He didn't home even in go off the carriage to go back to his house. Meaning he had to pass his house in order to get to where the אלטער רבי is. He doesn't even go off of the carriage. He doesn't stop for a breather.

He doesn't go home. אלא המשיך בדרכו ופנה לכיוון ליוזשנא. But he continued towards the home. אלטער רבי.

ובלשון הספר חיי מוהר"ן, and this is amazing that this לובאוויטש ספר is now quoting חיי מוהר"ן, which is like רבי נחמן'ס unofficial biography. It says quoting like this: גם תכף בבואו מארץ ישראל נסע ל so לדי, ליאדי, we this: know him as רבי שניאור זלמן מלאדי. ליוזשנא, is, is there a difference between the two? Between ליאדי and ליוזשנא? What's that? Right, but, but לובאוויטשערס they're so מדייק on every single thing whether it was ליאדי or ליוזשנא. But it's one of the places that could have been and they're very, that, that's already in the same, ממש the same area.

they're סו very, גם that, תכף בבואו מארץ ישראל the נסע same, לקדוש לרב החסיד הגאון area. מפורסם מורנו הרב שניאור זלמן זכר צדיק וקדוש לברכה. ודיבר עמו הרבה מעניין אנשי ארץ ישראל. Can you imagine this? רבי נחמן is sitting in the אלטער רבי'ס living room or whatever it was and they're sitting and they're and they're שמועסן and he's telling him all about sitting אנשי and ארץ ישראל, the אידן that he met when he was in ארץ ישראל.

כי the בעת היות that רבנו he ז"ל בארץ ישראל שחרו פניו שם שיהיו שיהיה הוא ז"ל שם. He had a lot of pressure put on him while he was there that he should also be there in, in ארץ ישראל, like, like stay there. ובעניין זה יש there כמה מעשיות לספר מה שעבר עליו בעת נסיעתו לשם ובהיותו שם ובחזרתו משם, like we've seen, this is the ברסלבר book saying, and there's so much to discuss about what, what רבי נחמן went through when he was in ארץ ישראל. what, Back into the לובאוויטש understanding of this.

מעט מאירועים אלו נתפרשו במקורות נוספים. We have a few other different sources explaining this meeting. בבואו לשם, when he came to the אלטער רבי, בשבת חזון תקנ"ט. Here we when have he a came date to even.

the There's a מחלוקת about this date of course, but this is a date that, that we have to work with. The summer, the שבת before תשעה באב, date summer of 1799. דיבר עם שני אנשים של הרב האדמו"ר הזקן מעניין חב"ד. He was with two 1799.

of the אלטער רבי'ס חסידים speaking about the whole ענין of חכמה בינה ודעת. They were talking and learning. ורבנו זכר צדיק וקדוש לברכה מברסלב ביקש מהם שיפרשו לו איזה ענין. רבי נחמן wanted these two חסידים of the אלטער רבי to explain a certain matter to them.

אחר כך ביקש האדמו"ר את רבנו זכר צדיק וקדוש לברכה לומר לפניו תורה ולא רצה. Then the אלטער רבי asked רבי נחמן to say תורה, but he didn't want to. רבי נחמן refused. ואמר הרב תורה בערך שמונה שעות.

So then it says that the אלטער רבי spoke then for eight hours. Now, you should just know this is already like it's hard for us to fathom Now, such things. Do you understand what they just said here? Did you ever hear someone talk for eight hours? Besides yourself in your mind? The last רבי. I mean I didn't stay awake for it all.

But they said. The Oh last oh the I Eight, mean even I eight didn't hours. stay That's awake It's for a it thing all. by But then.Well, they the said.

only thing is is that the other sources say that דוקא the אלטער רבי would speak actually is not long. And it was the מיטעלער that רבי, the second רבי who would speak much much longer. So this is an interesting interesting thing. Anyway, whatever it was, the אלטער רבי starts giving over תורה.

ואמר רבנו זכר צדיק וקדוש לברכה שבדבר זה הטיר ציל גטראפען קלע אל המטרה. That רבי נחמן said the the that the אלטער רבי hit bullseye with what he was with with what he was saying. שסיים אז על הפסוק, as bullseye he with finished what teaching he about was the פסוק, רחמיך רבים ה'. עס איז אַ אבדיל גרויס רחמנות.

as רחמנות he גדולה finished היא teaching עליך about רבונו the של עולם. Which means there's a lot of different ways of understanding this. There's a lot of רחמנות on you, ה', or it means ה'ס רחמנות is so big on the world. And the way that the אלטער רבי brought it down, רבי נחמן says he hit bullseye with it.

רבנו? Right, so we have to it's it's not so פשוט. You have to keep on going back and forth as to to what source this is coming from. If it's a לובאוויטשער ספר, obviously it means the אלטער רבי. If it's a ברסלבר ספר, it means רבי נחמן.

הרבי ר' נחמן עצמו חזר באוזני אנשיו את דבריו אלו של רבנו הזקן. This is what's interesting. That when רבי נחמן made it back to his חבר'ה, to his חסידים, he repeated the תורה that he heard from the אלטער רבי. He gave it over to them.

כפי שכותב הרב החשוב ר' אברהם חזן בנו של הרב החשוב ר' נחמן מטולטשין. ר' אברהם חזן was one of the great leaders who also lived here in ארץ ישראל of the ברסלבר חסידים. Um, they call him רבי אברהם בער ר' נחמנ'ס. He was the son of ר' נחמן מטולטשין, who was a student of ר' נתן.

And this ר' אברהם reported like this, שמעתי בשם אדמו"ר מורנו ר' נחמן שסיפר זאת בשם הרב הצדיק ר' שניאור זלמן מלאדי שפירש את המקרא רחמיך רבים ה'. Who explained when the פסוק says your רחמים is so great ה', היינו רחמיך הרחמנות שעליך ה' כביכול רבים ועצומים מאוד. So it's these are still things that are remaining hidden and in מסתר because we don't understand yet what this actually means that ה'ס רחמנות is very in big. But after hearing it for eight hours from the אלטער רבי, רבי נחמן had a had a השגה of what that meant and then gave that over to to his uh to his תלמידים.Now we continue.

הד מביקורו זה, an echo from this visit that his רבי נחמן had with the we אלטער רבי, נשמע במכתבו של הרב מקאליסק אל הרבי ר' נחמן. So the ר' אברהם מקאליסק and רבי נחמן would continue to communicate. And there was a letter the that was written after this meeting from ר' אברהם מקאליסק to רבי נחמן. ושמחנו מאוד אשר שמענו משפת שלמה כי בא לביתו בשלום.

We're so happy to hear that you've returned home, רבי נחמן. And that you came to meet with the אלטער רבי. וראינו שקשר אבותות האהבה לא זזה בכל לבבו דורש טובותינו ושם לדרך פעמיו the ונהג נסיעתו בעצמו למדינת רייסן. Okay, so to explain this without context is impossible.

What ר' אברהם מקאליסק is basically letting Okay, רבי so נחמן to know, explain he this says, without whatever context the is שליחות impossible. was What for רבי נחמן to is accomplish basically by letting the אלטער רבי, know, it he worked says, because whatever we're so happy was to for hear that on his own, the אלטער רבי now it has worked decided because to we're journey so elsewhere happy to to another hear area, that probably to go own, and collect, to continue, to continue the the journey important שליחות of collecting צדקה for ארץ ישראל. And the אלטער and ר' אברהם מקאליסק is so happy to hear this. יהי כן ה' עמו.

ה' should be with the אלטער רבי in his journey. ובמדינת רייסן לא יש לנו שום ידיעה should מה be נעשה with שם the בנידון זה. We in have his no journey. idea.

We don't have anyone reporting to us as to how the collection is going in that area. אבל אחרי נסיעת כבוד תורתו לשם ונתראה פנים ויספר להם מכל התלאה אשר מצעתנו. I'm area. sure the אלטער רבי כבוד תורתו that's כ"ת ר' is the ראשי תיבות כבוד תורתו.

We will see בעזרת ה' what will happen when he comes back. מצפים אנו שיודיע לנו This one I don't know. ר"ו מ"ע, I was looking for it, back. I couldn't figure it out.

It's another probably another know. description of the אלטער רבי. He will explain to us בפרטיות מכל אשר עשה שם. So and and it'll explain to us, he'll let us know what exactly us happened there.

But the the point of this meeting of documenting this is that the the אלטער רבי was a there. was a רבי. You know what I mean? The אלטער רבי wasn't that like the אלטער רבי was already a מנהיג over here. He was already and he and he comes and he meets this 27-year-old kid.

Think about it. It's it's, you know, already the and ages, what did you say, 54 and 27. And he's coming from ארץ ישראל. He has a message from his old old friend, the אלטער רבי'ס old friend that things got wishy-washy over those years of being far and distant regarding the distribution of of געלט of צדקה.

And רבי נחמן was somehow able to משפיע that the flow should continue distribution to be and the אלטער רבי was מקבל from רבי נחמן whatever he had to say.Now this is if I told you this, learning this out of a ברסלבר book, you would say to me, this is just a ברסלבר book. So of course they're going to say that you רבי נחמן was able to give something over to the אלטער רבי. This is a לובאוויטש book what we're learning out of today. And they're saying here that it came out that רבי נחמן was פועל and then after he met the אלטער רבי, the אלטער רבי then continued and journeyed and continued the functioning like the way that would make them happy in ארץ ישראל.

So that's very special. So just they're going to add a few things here on the bottom. מן העניין להביא כאן אזכורים נוספים של רבנו הזקן ותורתו. Let's bring a few more things regarding when רבי the אלטער רבי and רבי נחמן had some kind of קשר.

בכתב יד של רבי נחמן מברסלב. when Just to show you, I didn't put it in your pages, but here they they they they published the whole letter. This is רבי נחמן'ס handwriting. This may be one of here the they the they communications that was taking place back then.

I could send this out to everyone. But this is like this is also he was a real person. He he was here. He used a, you know, a pen.

He had fingers. They formed letters which person. formed words. No, because sometimes, you know, ברסלברס they take רבי נחמן it's almost like completely detached from any form words.

of being able to relate to. That's how I feel like quite often, you know. But then I see, oh, he actually wrote things and he was in feel this world to a certain extent. אוקיי, בתחילת התקרבותו של הרב ר' נתן מברסלב, turn the page.

תלמידו הגדול של הרבי ר' נחמן לרבו. So as ר' נתן began to get close to רבי נחמן, סיפר לו רבי נחמן, this was in חודש אלול תקפ"ב. That means it's about August, September time 1802. That was when רבי that was when ר' נתן was getting close to רבי נחמן.

רבי נחמן told him שלוש מעשיות. He told him when three different tales. It doesn't say which tales he told him. It just says that המעשה השני מהרב ר' שניאור זלמן מלאדי.

The second tale was a story that had to do with with the אלטער רבי. שהיה לו תלמיד שאמר שמונה שנים תורה על תורה אחת מהרב. So he said that that this story is that the אלטער רבי had a student who said תורה for eight years on based on one that teaching that he heard from the אלטער רבי. ובזה רימז מיד על מורנו ר' נתן שהרבה מאוד years לחדש בתורתו הקדושה של מורנו ר' נחמן.

This is amazing. In ברסלב they learned this out to be that when רבי נחמן was meeting ר' נתן and he told him over that there was a תלמיד of the אלטער רבי who spent eight years deciphering and writing תורות on one חידוש of the אלטער רבי. So in ברסלב they understand that to mean that רבי נחמן was already giving the instructions to ר' נתן that you're going to spend your much more than eight years, but you're going to spend your life non-stop taking each תורה that I said and writing more and more and more about it. But what struck me is that רבי נחמן meets ר' נתן in 1802 in אלול and he tells him this story.

כמעט exactly eight years later, רבי נחמן passed away. That's the that's the only that's the time they had together.They met in אלול 1802 and רבי נחמן died in תשרי 1810. I the don't that's know why they didn't pick up on it here, but I just thought of like, wow. רבי נחמן meets ר' נתן, talks to him about the אלטער רבי'ס student who spent eight years saying a of one תורה of an אלטער רבי.

That's all the time they had, eight years. ר' נתן meets him in 1802. Okay, I hope you're as excited about these things as I am. I'm just this stuff thrills me, thrills me.

פעם אחת דיבר you understand because inside there's going to be until משיח comes I'm and just after an eternal wrestling match between, you know, ברסלב חב"ד, ברסלב חב"ד and ה' going to tell us all, why did you call it two different things? And the חב"דניקס in שמים it's going to say, because there are. It is two different things. And the ברסלבר is going to say also, and it was two different things. And then חבר'ה I don't have to like our our חבר'ה בעזרת השם will say, no, and no, no, no, no.

It's one. It's one thing. פעם אחת דיבר רבי נחמן עם אנשיו בראש השנה ואמר שאין ללמוד ספרים של דרושים ומוסר אלא רק אותם ההולכים על פי דברי רז"ל בגמרא ומדרשים וספרי הזוהר הקדוש וספרי האריז"ל. So רבי נחמן once told his students, don't learn the ספרי מוסר that are not based on the גמרא and the מדרשים and the זוהר הקדוש and the ספרי האר"י.

I guess there were other like self-help books back then or books to, I don't know, מוסר דקה books, but they weren't based and rooted in anything. It was just some then guy's anger needed to felt let out the rage and he put it out in a ספר and that's what people had. So now they write felt here in bold typing, וכן כל הספרים שחיברו הצדיקים הסמוכים לדורותינו שהם בנויים על יסודות הארי הקדוש על פי דברי הבעל שם טוב זכרונו לברכה. So he said and also learn the ספרים that are from צדיקים, from from contemporaries, right? That are built based on the fabric, the foundation of the בעל שם טוב הקדוש.

So who what ספרים were out then? שהם ספרי הרב הקדוש מפולנאה, that's the תולדות יעקב יוסף. וספר ליקוטי אמרים. Okay, what what's what's the ספר ליקוטי אמרים? Could be the תניא. Right.

So it's good you said could be. Because there's a what שאלה about that too, right? And and the let's say for now the תניא. וחשב עוד כמה ספרים כאלה שטוב ללומדם. Now, like they continue here right? and it says, the אף שאין לדעת בבירור אם כוונתו לליקוטי אמרים אמרים מתורת הרב המגיד ממזריטש או לליקוטי אמרים של התניא.

Back then, the initial publication of the works of the מגיד ממזריטש was also called ליקוטי אמרים. Because what does ליקוטי אמרים mean? Basically, what does that mean? Collections of sayings. What's ליקוטי מוהר"ן? Same thing. Collections of statements of that was like they weren't that innovative yet with like, Collections you of know, sayings.

נועם אלימלך or שפת אמת, תפארת שלמה, you know. So ליקוטי אמרים, like what are we going to call this? you Well, know, it's just a gathering of sayings, right? So even though he says we're not we're not we're not 100% sure if he's referring to the מגיד ממזריטש or of the אלטער רבי. אבל. says And we're this is a big אבל.

איננו הרואות שספר התניא שגור על לשונו של הגאון החשוב הרב ר' נחמן טשערינער. Okay, now again, ר' נחמן טשערין was a leading ברסלב figure after ר' נתן מברסלב. So he wasn't מקבל directly from רבי נחמן, but he may as well because he spent his life with ר' נתן. And he had the ספר התניא in his mouth all the time.

Now you got to understand, these ברסלברס, especially the hardcore early ones, right? They would never dare learn something or teach something that wasn't ברוח רבנו הקדוש רבי נחמן מברסלבר. So if he is constantly quoting תניא, then it must mean that there was מקובל back then that the תניא was a ספר that he you learn as a ברסלבר. It's not necessarily true the other way around. There's no ענין by לובאוויטשערס to learn ליקוטי מוהר"ן, if anything it's not so much the ענין.

But ר' נחמן טשערינער, you know, for our חבר'ה one of the great figures in ברסלב is ר' יעקב מאיר שכטר. He's quoting the אלטער רבי every every for few our pages.So he was he was this ר' נחמן טשערין, like it says in the third to bottom line here in this paragraph, pages.So הוא השליט במרחבי תורת מוהר"ן ומפליא בביאוריו. He had such command and control in the teachings of רבי נחמן. ומפליא בביאוריו, the way he explained it was was wondrous.

ולא זז מחבבו בספרו דרך חסידים ואתו עמו דרושי הסידור של אדמו"ר הזקן המובאים שם לרוב. And other basically was the תורה of the אלטער רבי was one with this with this יר' נחמן טשערינער. He was always with it. other Now there's another very interesting item.

על רבנו הזקן מסופר שבשעה שנתעוררה with המחלוקת הגדולה על הרבי מברסלב רצה הרבי ר' אלטער רבי לעמוד לימינו ולהגן על כבודו של הרבי ר' נחמן. This is brought down in the ספר בית רבי, which is also these like biographical works that were put out in לובאוויטש about all the רביס. And it says here that when there was like a מחלוקת on רבי נחמן, that the אלטער רבי wanted to stand up and protect the name of רבי נחמן. It's not a simple thing, חבר'ה.

It's a very very big thing. ובלשון אחר נמסר שהאדמו"ר הזקן שלח להכריז, he let everyone know, the אלטער thing, רבי told everyone, שכל החולק על רבי נחמן הוא כחולק על האדמו"ר עצמו. If you mess with him, you're messing with me. The source of this as you see it's such a it's such a far out statement that there was a few different sources over here.

But you this see is it's coming from לובאוויטש sources. But this is coming from לובאוויטש sources. So we see that there's something beautiful But going this on is over coming here. from Again, their sources.

עניין their ענינים of how their תורות came out into the world, it's definitely different. Like someone that's swimming Again, in their the תורה of רבי נחמן is swimming a certain with a certain stroke. When you swim Like in the תורות of the אלתר רבי, you're you're also you're swimming a it's certain a different stroke. It is, it's it is it is what it is.

But you you're have you're to also remember you're in the same pool. That's the is, important it's thing it to is remember. it But it is different, it smells different, it it it appears different. There's something different going on.

And anyone that's tasted from both of those, you know, different, both it of those worlds of מעיינות knows exactly what we're talking about.So now, with the time both that of we those, have, you go know, back to what they quoted here as the first one. As you see, do you see the second page that you have? There's another letter here that they I think this As one you you see, do have, right? Yeah, this is a letter from רבי נחמן that he wrote in the year that he died. It's unbelievable, huh? It's really unbelievable.Okay, so the first page is like this. During the in trip.

Now, it's it's kind of sad and embarrassing, but it it is what it is. There wasn't just מחלוקת regarding trip. the צדקה at that time. By the time that, you it know, the אלתר רבי is is is leading the reins, things are things have really grown tremendously in terms that, of you what חסידות is, who's a חסיד, who are you hanging reins, out things by.

And we see here that there's always tension between those that we would call גזע, גזע, which means, יחוס, right, means like the family, like the גזע. That's what it really means. Most לובאוויטשערס don't even know that it means גזע, that's a Hebrew word. Between those that come from the family of the בעל שם טוב, and those that don't.

It's not דווקא, it's just it is what it is. So by some people, they were very startled by רבי נחמן. However, they knew he's the בעל שם טוב'ס great-grandson. We have to treat him with royalty, just like we saw the the story that when רב נחמן put his head down when he met with with רב אברהם מקאליסק in טבריה, the and he asked him to give him a ברכה.

Remember what רב אברהם קאליסק with did? He jumped backwards, he freaked out. He said, this is insane, the great-grandson of בעל שם טוב lowered his head in front of me. I can't give him a ברכה. Then the assistant also lowered his head, and he had no problem giving him a ברכה.

But there's a there's a there's an עניין here. רבי נחמן has has a few siblings. One of them is actually, his name there's is a ישראל. there's If a you've been to the ציון of the בעל שם טוב, he's buried right as you walk into the ציון of the בעל שם טוב.

And רבי נחמן has of course, his mother had two brothers. He had he had brother רב משה חיים אפרים of סדילקאב and he had רב ברוך. Now this already is a whole סיפור. רב he ברוך had ממעז'יבוז'.

brother When you mention his name in חב"ד and you mention his name in other places, you hear two completely different worlds, different stories going on. I don't want to get too much into it, although a chunk of this ספר is all about the tension that was between the world of רב ברוך ממעז'יבוז', who was the בעל שם טוב'ס grandson, it was רבי נחמן'ס uncle. Excuse me, and the אלתר רבי.So here he's traveling in this in this stage that we're in right now, this is the this is 1810. It must be 1810 because of what we're in going this to say over here in the beginning.

So now, while this the is אלתר רבי was going to see רב ברוך ממעז'יבוז', בדרכו אל הרב הקדוש רב ברוך, שבאותם ימים היה מושבו בטולטשין. He was living in the town טולטשין. ערך רבינו ביקור אצל הרב הקדוש רב נחמן מברסלב הסמוכה. טולטשין, everyone knows, טולטשין and ברסלב are very close to each other.

We're on the first page right now. טרם שרבי נחמן עקר משם לאומן בחודש אייר של אותה שנה. רבי נחמן'ס house burnt down on חול המועד פסח. And then right after פסח, they moved from ברסלב to אומן.

רבי נחמן only spent six months living in אומן. That's all he lived there for. From אייר till תשרי. But before the fire took place, so he's still living in ברסלב, and ברסלב is right next to טולטשין, so the אלתר רבי stopped by רבי נחמן, and he met him so there.

הרב רבי נחמן יצא לקראתו. רבי נחמן goes out and greets him. ואל מחוץ לעיר, he greets him already, he knows he's coming so he goes to the outskirts of ברסלב. What's beautiful is that some of us have been there, we could we could we could visualize this.

He goes to the outskirts of ברסלב to go and escort him, but he goes בליווי there, רבים we מאנשיו. could He we takes a lot of his חבר'ה. רבי נחמן had a lot of חסידים by now. This is already the end goes of his life.

So he comes outside and he his greets the אלתר רבי, בכבוד גדול עשו לו. And they give him great כבוד. ואמר הרב רבי נחמן לאנשיו, Oh, thank you so much. ואמר רבי נחמן לאנשיו, תנו כבוד לשר האלף.

Give כבוד to the minister of a thousand. Now, this is going to be, I'm already letting you know, the next שיעור you have to bring your ליקוטי מוהר"ן. Because go to footnote 62. ברוך אתה אדני אלהינו מלך העולם שהכל נהיה בדברו אמן לעניין שרי אלפים במשנתו של רבי נחמן, ראה ליקוטי מוהר"ן תנינא סימן ע"ב.

The 72nd teaching in ליקוטי in the second piece of ליקוטי מוהר"ן discusses in depth, beautiful, beautiful. I was going to start it today but it would have in been a we need a whole שיעור for it. We need a whole זמן for it. It's a long תורה, we're not going to do been all of it.

But there רבי נחמן goes into the depth of the concept of being a minister of hundreds, a minister of thousands, a minister of hundred thousands. What does that even mean? And where does it come from? Where does that לשון even come from? Does anyone know? משה ויתרו. בדיוק, from משה ויתרו. So my plan already now, I'm telling you is to continue this שיעור, I'm not going to be around next Thursday, but from the following Thursday will be our last one for the year probably, going in depth to understand what this story that we're about to learn right now.

This is very exciting. We're going to understand this story based on the teaching in ליקוטי מוהר"ן.Yeah.I need to clarify. רבי נחמן is on his way to רבי ברוך?No.No?The אלתר רבי.The אלתר רבי. Ahh.

So it's confusing because it's coming from your ספר.Yeah. So the אלתר רבי is on his way to רבי ברוך ממעז'יבוז'.מעז'יבוז', yeah, who was רבי Ahh. נחמן'ס So uncle.Right, it's who confusing was because at it's that coming point living in טולטשין.טולטשין. רב ברוך ממעז'יבוז' was living in טולטשין.Okay.And also...So the רבינו is the רבי?ערך רבינו is the אלתר רבי.

Remember this is a לובאוויטש book.To see רבי נחמן in ברסלב.Correct, because it was close to טולטשין.Okay. We good?Got it.Okay. And then as he approaches ברסלב, רבי נחמן goes to the outskirts of ברסלב to greet the אלתר רבי. Can you just imagine that? It's like, like, לא יאומן, I I don't know, I don't know what this is.

I'm freaking out. I'm freaking out. Just I've I've read this so many hundreds of It's times. like, Every like, time I think I that this actually happened.

ממש ממש chills and it's not because of the air. It's really... Just Okay. I've רבינו בא לביתו של so רבי many נחמן.

Now listen to this story. It's a simple story, or you think it may be. רבי נחמן comes to the home of sorry, the אלתר רבי comes to the home of רבי נחמן. ובאותו מעמד Now why am I freaking out even more? Because on one of my trips to ברסלב, someone that I was there, that was there that took me around told me that this is this was רבי נחמן'ס house.

So when I'm freaking out even more is like that a I little was bit there, of a visualization of the actual home where they met. When this you is see it, it's I don't know if they I I can't make too much out of it, but it's just amazing.But it burnt down.What's that?But it burnt down.The area, no no, it, not it's not there, know but if the they the the land, yeah, yeah, the land like where it was. I mean, amazing.But I'm it shocked burnt it down.What's didn't that?But burn it that burnt burn down when they were meeting together in that room. the That's that's what's shocking to me.

רבינו בא no just just thinking that those four pupils, those two burn sets that of eyes were looking at each other in this world is it's that's hard for me to comprehend. I just don't I just can't believe it. That they actually saw each other and that and the the world either still continued to exist or that משיח didn't come I at just that don't moment.This is the second time.And this is the second meeting, correct, correct. So how and many the years are between the two meetings? 10 or 11?11.The first one was 1799.

Now this is 1810. Okay, so רבינו בא לביתו של רבי נחמן. The אלתר רבי goes into the רבי נחמן'ס house. ובאותו מעמד פנה רבי נחמן לגביר ר' משה טשינקעס חינקעס שהיה מאנשיו ואמר לו.

He told רב נחמן told one of his בעל גבירים. He said the to him, give house. give צדקה for an אמת'ן תלמיד חכם. Give צדקה for a real תלמיד חכם that's He here.

וילך ויניח על השולחן מטבע זהב. So he put one gold coin on give the table עבור רבינו for for the אלתר רבי. פנה אליו רבי נחמן בתמיהה, he says, what? דאס איז געמיינט פאר אן אמת'ן תלמיד חכם? This is what you give a real student, a תלמיד חכם? So, הניח רענדל נוסף. He put another golden coin.

כשהבחין בפני רבי נחמן שהוא עדיין תמה, so the גבאי saw Rebbi Nachman still like, are you serious? הוסיף והניח רענדל נוסף, אך התמיהה לא שרה, והוסיף והניח עד שנתן עשר מטבעות זהב. Till he gave him 10 golden coins. אז גרף רב נחמן בידו את המטבעות ונתן בידו של אדמו"ר הזקן. And then he was the then he gave then then he took all this money, רבי נחמן in his hand and he gave it directly to the אלתר רבי.

Now, And just then to he understand, was there the was then one he of gave the then footnotes here, it explained exactly what what what the what the currency was back then. So look at footnote 63. ערך הרענדל ניתן ללמוד מכך what is these coins? We can learn the מכך שקהילת what ברסלב what נתנה what לרבי the נחמן, על פי דרישתו שלו או דרישתו של הרב ר' ברוך, whether it was his uncle that said this must be the משכורת or learn it the was רבי נחמן himself that said, that he needed רענדל אחד לשבוע. He needed one coin a week לפרנסתו.

והייתה זו נתינה ביותר מכפי הרגיל, which was more than the usual of whatever was back then the the the the salaries that that רביי I mean it's weird week to say this, but the salaries that heads of קהילה or רבנים used to get. So here, how then much the is the the אלתר רבי getting? that 10 months of I of what a salary would be for רבי נחמן. על פי רבי נחמן'ס דרישה. שאל רבי נחמן את האדמו"ר.

Then רבי נחמן asks the אלתר רבי, האמנם הוא שיש לכם of שמונים אלף חסידים? Is it true you have 80,000 חסידים? Which was unheard of at the time. 1810, that there's that one רב has 80,000 חסידים? I mean, how much long before this did the אלתר did did the בעל שם טוב pass away? Only 50 years. Did 1810, the that בעל שם טוב have anything close to 80,000 חסידים? So this was this was really did like the he was did he couldn't believe it. Huh? רבי עקיבא had 24 at the time, right? Thousands of I mean, hundreds.

Years later. Yeah, but we're this this was is nothing to compare, like meaning, he it's that number is very very Huh? fascinating, but here had we're 24 saying at 80,000 the when time, this right? concept called חסידות was still was still beginning. It was we're still beginning. השיב לו רבינו, so meaning, the אלתר רבי answers him, very שלא יהא הדבר חידוש בעיניו.

He says, it could be. It could be. was Why? מפני שיש לו בתוך חסידיו גם מלמדים רבים, because amongst my so חסידים I have a lot of teachers. ולכל מלמד יש הרבה He תלמידים, says, and every one of my teachers has a lot of students.

וכל תלמיד נותן לי צדקה להחזקת רבינו, and every student of my of my teachers gives gives us a little צדקה for uh holding up the house, right? ובזה הוא נחשב לחסיד שלו. And I guess that even those that are of already my twice removed still fall gives into the us category of my חסידים. כי uh באם הוא נותן צדקה עבורו הרי בזה הכוח לא יתהפך למתנגד עליו. Because we know one thing, if he's giving צדקה to our מוסדות, the one thing we know is that he's not going to become a מתנגד of mine.

ואדרבה, naoborot, זכות הצדקה תגן עליו שיתהפך לטוב. ובזה האופן יוכל להיות שיש לו שמונים אלף חסידים. So he explained that it really really could be that this number does add up. יש naoborot, אומרים, there are those that say, listen to this, this is fascinating, שבין הדברים אמר רבי נחמן לרבינו, שבבוא היום ישתדכו צאצאיהם זה בזה.

I've seen this source in a number of places that רבי נחמן told the אלתר רבי, you know, we're going to be we're going to become משפחה one day. דבריו נתקיימו כעבור שנים רבות. This actually did happen a few places years later. תקע"ז.

תקע"ז is 1817. כשנכדו, so you רבי know, נחמן we're is going not in the world anymore. כשנכדו של אדמו"ר הזקן, that the huh? And the אלתר רבי is not around either, right? Meaning when they neither of them were there to see this. The אלתר רבי'ס grandson, רב אהרן מקרעמענטשוק, who was the son, בנה של הרבנית that פרידא the בת huh? רבינו, he was the grandson of the אלתר רבי.

נשא Meaning בזיווג when שני, they his second marriage, his first wife died, he married a woman named חיה. And who was חיה? רבי נחמן'ס younger youngest daughter. That's pretty close. That make that's really משפחה.

The אלתר רבי'ס grandson married רבי נחמן'ס daughter.Is she the one who's buried in?No.Right? That what?פרידא is the one who's buried.טבריה?No, מרים.מרים'ס husband.The one in צפת? No, no. She she she didn't make it to ארץ ישראל, this this. Do we know anything? Yeah, we daughter.Is know she about the her. one Huh? who's Yeah, buried yeah, in?No.Right? it's That also what? in this is thing the that one I who's found, buried.

yeah. I'll send it out. אחר כך ליוו, okay, so after she this she meeting finished. אחר כך ליוו אנשי קהילת this ברסלב this.

עד Do ליציאתו we מן העיר. So again, they're escorting the her. אלתר רבי out of ברסלב. And and listen to this, ושני הצדיקים נסעו יחדיו בעגלה אחת.

But these but but רבי נחמן and אלתר רבי, finished. ממש, think about this. Blowing in the wind. The the the end of the the skip this.

And they're on a carriage and going out together this, out of ברסלב.Huh, so I'm going to But ruin these it but for but you because now and look at the next page, or they ruined it for us a the little the bit. כשנסבה שיחתם, the this is it's not ruining it, but it's still כאילו showing that there was there was תכלס to talk about. כשנסבה שיחתם אודות החיכוכים עם הרבי ר' ברוך, when they started talking about the tension that happened with רב ברוך, התבטא this רב is נחמן במליצה, פעטערבורג. Okay, so you have to understand what that this there is.

האט איר שוין געפֿערט? פעטער ברוך האט איר נאך ניט געפֿערט. Okay, so what does this mean? It's a play on words. What's כלאָמער מפעטערבורג כבר נפרדתם, מעדות ברוך עדיין לא. Okay, what's Petersburg in? When you say the word Petersburg in לובאוויטש land? Jail.

Black jail. That's where he was imprisoned, right? But in אידיש, פעטער means uncle. פעטער ברוך means Uncle What's ברוך, right? So רב נחמן they say that he Okay, he had he said to the אלתר רבי, okay, from Peter from Petersburg you got you're done with, but פעטער imprisoned, ברוך, Uncle ברוך, he's still giving you, you haven't figured out how to how to get through that one. So he there's he a had lot there's a lot to say on this last statement.

There's a you lot got of been there have been a lot of מאמרים that have been written as to what was how רבי to נחמן really saying to the אלתר רבי when there's he a said lot you still haven't gone through Uncle ברוך. It's not for our עניין right now. been But there the last paragraph over here says like this, אחת המסורות יודעות לספר שמפני מה לא הסכים רבינו ללון בביתו של רבי נחמן אלא דווקא בעגלת מסעו. For some reason, the אלתר רבי didn't agree to sleep in רבי נחמן'ס house.

I mean would you? Would you have agreed this, to sleep in רבי נחמן'ס house? I mean, we can't understand these things, but even the אלתר רבי is like I'm going to sleep in my carriage. ומוהר"ן אמר, so so רבי נחמן said when he heard that that the אלתר רבי won't sleep in his house, he said, אה שבודאי חפץ רבינו להשיח באוזני הבעל עגלה בענייני עתיק ואריך. Which means that what happened right now with our meetings, so the the whole world will will will never that ever know. We'll never know.

But the אלתר רבי needs to said, let things out, so he's for sure going to start to reveal the secrets of what took place with this meeting meetings, with the בעל עגלה. Now will the will בעל עגלה was always a, you know, the בעל שם טוב had אלעקסי, right? The בעל עגלה of the אלתר רבי also was filled with secrets. Who knows what was going on over there as well. עתיק ואריך are obviously are the קבלה'דיק, you know, concepts that are relating to the deepest levels of the secrets of the תורה.

So in our in our learning about רבי נחמן'ס life, to me these two meetings, I would they become more are and obviously more meaningful as we're getting closer to משיח. Because the world is incorporating more and more of both of these צדיקים. in It's our not like one is bigger, one is one is being learned more than the other. It's it's hand in hand.

Hand in hand. There's more לובאוויטש and more ברסלב תורה and more celebration of אידישקייט happening simultaneously all the time. All the time. And this is a very big moment in רבי נחמן'ס journey back from ארץ it's ישראל as I told you, that רבי נחמן'ס the ליקוטי מוהר"ן that we have, I'm going to get the exact number, but the teachings that we have from רבי נחמן from before this journey took place are minimal.

We don't have a lot. We have a lot of stories. But רבי נחמן was only interested in the תורה that came out after the trip to ארץ ישראל. And as we'll see when we continue this in the near future with the chronology and and what was taking place, the תורות רבי נחמן was saying after meetings with the אלתר רבי, you see a lot of very, very deep insights.

But regarding why רבי נחמן asked him and referred to him as a שר and האלף, בעזרת השם next time we learn you're going to bring your ליקוטי מוהר"ן, and we're going to see inside what רבי נחמן was really saying to the אלתר רבי and what he was telling his חסידים as well. And this meeting happens, this one that we just spoke about over here, we could probably get an exact date, but it's the last year of רבי נחמן'ס life. Could be this is right before פסח, I don't know exactly.שבת פרשת צו?נכון. So yeah, whenever it is.

It's that last תקופה of life. Okay. I hope these these details were as exciting for you as they are for me. And we'll continue בעזרת השם.

exactly. these