Church Is Messy: Expedition Ready - Before You Hit the Trail

Technical note: Due to multiple technical difficulties, the video version of this week’s episode is unavailable. We expect the video podcast to premiere with next week’s episode. The audio version is available as usual.

In this episode, Rick and Svea launch the new Expedition Ready series by introducing a framework for the spiritual journey. The goal is not to create a formula, ladder, or grading system for faith, but to offer a map that helps people understand how growth with Jesus often unfolds over time. The journey moves through stages of discovering, learning, doing, contemplating, becoming, and loving, with “the wall” marking a significant season of deeper wrestling and growth.

They talk about the “ghost rules” people can absorb in church culture—like feeling pressure to fake maturity or appear more put together than they really are—and why authentic spiritual formation requires honesty. Growth is not about managing a Christian image; it is about becoming more like Jesus in ways that reach beneath behavior and into the deeper parts of who we are.

Rick and Svea also spend time on “the wall,” the season when old answers may no longer feel sufficient, God may seem distant, or doubt and disillusionment surface. Rather than seeing that as failure, they describe it as a normal and potentially important part of the journey—an invitation into deeper emotional and spiritual maturity.

From there, the conversation explores what happens on the other side of the wall: allowing Jesus to bring healing to the inner life, gradually becoming the kind of person who reflects His character more naturally, and ultimately growing toward a life increasingly shaped by love for God and others.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:00 Introducing video podcasting & the "Expedition Ready" fall series launch
• 01:30 The goal of becoming like Jesus — and why it can't be reduced to a formula of "right beliefs, right behaviors"
• 03:04 The overlanding metaphor: preparation, maps, and not traveling alone as parallels to the spiritual journey
• 04:32 The six stages as a map, not a scorecard — not levels, not a ladder, but seasons of movement toward maturity
• 06:35 "Ghost rules" in church culture — the pressure to fake it till you make it, and the call to authenticity
• 11:10 Stages 1–3 walkthrough: Discovering (excitement), Learning (being a sponge), and Doing (serving with rocket-fuel growth)
• 14:00 The Wall: burnout, doubt, disillusionment, and the liberating truth that "it's not a you problem, it's an us thing"
• 18:45 Stages 4–5: Contemplating (gospel healing of hurts, coping patterns, and family-of-origin wounds) and Becoming (reflexive Christlikeness vs. effortful behavior)
• 23:55 AI as a metaphor: the danger of "all product, no process" — shortcuts bypass the growth the spiritual journey requires
• 25:41 Stage 6: Loving — the final stage of true sanctification where love motivates everything, and a call to join small groups for the 8-week series

What is Church is Messy?

Church is messy podcast recorded at Autumn Ridge Church in Rochester, MN

Svea: 00:00

Well, hey, Rick. We are back with Church is Messy. And on one level, this is the same as we've been doing for years. Mhmm. But on another, we're introducing another element to the podcast today.

Rick: 00:09

This is the first time we've ever done video, and I I guess I'm kind of excited about it. I I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't say I was a little nervous about it.

Svea: 00:18

Are you feeling nervous?

Rick: 00:19

Yeah. I I think I have a little apprehension, you know. I mean, it feels like it's just a different thing, you know. It's visuals. It turns

Svea: 00:27

out Rick Henderson is camera shy after all.

Rick: 00:29

A little bit, you know. I mean, my makeup artist isn't here today. I just it just is what it is.

Svea: 00:45

Well, hello to everyone who is watching us directly, and hello to everyone who is listening as normal. No change to the audio version of the podcast. We're just adding another element and excited to do that with this fall series that we're launching now too, this Expedition Ready series.

Rick: 01:03

We've been working on this for a long time. Mhmm. You and I have worked with other churches, some from around the world. There's been a lot of digging in, lot of research, a lot of processing together for really more than a year. Mhmm.

Rick: 01:15

And finally, this series is here. And I hope, and I know you share this hope too, that people find it as liberating, as encouraging, as helpful as it's been to you and me. And we're already starting to hear people say, wait a second. This is me. This is so helpful.

Svea: 01:29

I am so excited about this. Because Yeah. We've had conversations for years now about how do we help people become more like Jesus.

Rick: 01:37

That's the whole point of everything that we're doing.

Svea: 01:39

And, and yet, you know, there isn't really an an easy simple how to manual for first do this, next do this, then do this, and and

Rick: 01:49

That's right.

Svea: 01:50

And all of that. Sometimes Yeah. Becoming like Jesus can actually feel somewhat confounding.

Rick: 01:55

And yet, we also don't want to describe it so well that or describe it in a way that it sounds formulaic.

Svea: 02:01

Mhmm.

Rick: 02:02

And we just like reduce it to some of the things that I experienced growing up. I think you probably can relate to this too. It's just like, you know, come to church, do the right things, believe the right things, do the right things. Yeah. I mean, there's there's so much more to it than that.

Svea: 02:16

Yeah. Is that kinda how you felt your your upbringing was and how you viewed that? Just reduced to right beliefs, right behaviors?

Rick: 02:23

Yeah. That's it. Mhmm. Right beliefs, right behaviors. Yeah.

Rick: 02:26

Mhmm. And and there was something missing. Mhmm. Something missing. And folks who have experienced seasons of doubt or confusion or just this nagging sense that I think there's something more.

Rick: 02:37

If you came from that background, I think it's gonna feel like someone just kicked the walls down off the box Mhmm. And threw the lid off. And I think you're gonna see, oh my goodness. There really is so much more, and it's Jesus, and I want more and more of him.

Svea: 02:50

Yeah. So in this first message Mhmm. You kinda walked us through the six different stages of the spiritual journey with the wall as a section

Rick: 02:59

Is that what we're calling it? And then the We'll just call it the spiritual journey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rick: 03:03

Okay. But we've

Svea: 03:04

got this really fun theme for this series. Yeah. We're calling it Expedition Ready.

Rick: 03:09

Mhmm.

Svea: 03:09

And there's this kind of picture of overlanding.

Rick: 03:13

I've gotten into overlanding a little bit. Like, I I love watching videos. Heather and I, we have a little teardrop trailer that we can take off road and like I just enjoy getting away and and doing some boondocking.

Svea: 03:26

So the term overlanding was new to me the first time that you brought this up. Really? I wanna just bring other maybe anyone else Well,

Rick: 03:32

I don't know I have like the official definition, but it's like off roading, but like a longer trip, you know. And it could be it doesn't have to be completely off roading, but you are just you're you're going on a long journey. And and there is a real off roading component to it and it's it's a bit of an it's a bit of an adventure and you're living out of your rig, just enjoying what the what the world has for you.

Svea: 03:53

So as we chose this as kind of the branding for this theme, what parallels do you see with the spiritual journey and something like overlanding?

Rick: 04:00

Well, you you have to be prepared, and you have to have a route and you have to have a map and really you don't wanna travel alone. Mhmm. You wanna you wanna you wanna be with others and so I think there are some natural analogies and just imagery and and things like that that that will resonate with people as we go through this. We're not gonna like hammer it home and in in a way that it's obnoxious, but I hopefully I I hope that people are able to have fun with it, and it is kinda opens up their imagination the same way that it has for me.

Svea: 04:32

So this particular message was kind of our overview message of the different stages. And then from here, we'll go each week into one of the stages specifically.

Rick: 04:43

Think of it like a each each week is like a waypoint on the journey.

Svea: 04:46

Uh-huh. Is it helpful for us to see this as a map without it becoming oversimplified into something that feels more formulaic, and we don't intend that to be.

Rick: 04:57

Yeah. We're we're not just moving. We're moving in a direction. And that direction is into maturity with Jesus. That direction is becoming to look more and more like Jesus.

Rick: 05:09

And and and I just I I hope I don't sound obnoxious in repeating this, but I really want people to hear it's not a scorecard. It's not levels. It's not a ladder. It's not a grade. These are these are seasons, or stages, or phases, or movements that we generally experience on our journey with Jesus and becoming more like Jesus.

Rick: 05:33

I'm not sure that it's totally linear. I mean, we might we these are

Svea: 05:36

People are likely gonna start with discovering.

Rick: 05:39

Well, it's gotta start with discovering. Point. Yeah. It's gotta start with discovering. But at every point, you're gonna be learning.

Rick: 05:46

Every point, you're gonna be doing it. All along the way, you you're you're becoming. But each of these kind of different movements or or sections or stages of of life with Jesus represent different things that we're prioritizing. And we're not ranking, but there might be things that we're prioritizing. And clearly, are times that we've got to there are things that we really gotta learn.

Rick: 06:04

I'm thinking about a season in my life where, I I found that I was making the same mistake over and over again relationally, and I didn't know how to break out of it. And so I I bought a book and and I begin to read through it. I begin to talk to some people about it. It's like, I have to understand this, so I gotta learn first, and then I need to act on it. I gotta do it.

Rick: 06:24

And and those two things blended together, but it started with the prioritizing of learning a new competency that I really needed.

Svea: 06:32

Mhmm. That makes a lot of sense.

Rick: 06:34

Okay.

Svea: 06:35

I love the line that you gave in there about the ghost rules that may exist in church culture.

Rick: 06:40

I learned that from a leadership talk that we watched at Leadership Exchange a couple of weeks ago. Yeah.

Svea: 06:44

Uh-huh. You wanna just bring us back up to speed

Rick: 06:47

on ghost They're they're things that you you're actually operating by even though they aren't the official rules. Uh-huh. Right? And it's it's a ghost rule, fake it till you make it. Right?

Rick: 06:58

No one at church is ever saying, hey, just pretend that you are who you aren't. No one is trying to to do that intentionally, yet we can slip into it. Right? Uh-huh. I've had moments like that.

Rick: 07:07

Well, I kinda wanna look like I measure up, and they seem like they have it together. I don't wanna look like I'm the only one who doesn't it together and and no one ever said, hey, Rick. Hey, pretend to be somebody you're not. But Yeah. No.

Rick: 07:18

There have been times in my life I just find myself, oh, I think I'm faking it right here. Mhmm. Hoping to make it. Mhmm. That's not what Jesus is calling us to.

Svea: 07:25

No. And we don't want church to feel that way.

Rick: 07:27

No way.

Svea: 07:27

Or if anyone wants to walk in here feeling like I've gotta just put on the church face right

Rick: 07:32

now. No. Don't want our church to be fake. We want it to be real and to be honest and authentic and and wherever from wherever we are, that we are moving towards Jesus and what it's like to be in a mature relationship with him, a deeper, more more loving, joy filled relationship with him, and that we are actually being transformed Mhmm. To be more like him.

Rick: 07:52

Mhmm. Not like some sort of Christian reputation management club. Yeah. What a waste.

Svea: 07:59

So I've been using this stage formula. No. I don't wanna say formula. The the the stages of spiritual journey as a way of I

Rick: 08:07

noticed you've going around the office, you've been grading people, you've been ranking where you are compared to where other no. We don't do that. And you certainly don't do that.

Svea: 08:15

No. But I've been using it as I've been talking with people and they're asking about, you know, I I want to have a richer, deeper Mhmm. Satisfying spiritual life. Yeah. And, you know, and sometimes people just feel a little bit lost in how to go about that.

Rick: 08:31

And that's the kind of thing we were trying to tap into at the beginning. We hate like those I hate where I just can't see my way forward. Mhmm. And I hate that for people.

Svea: 08:39

Mhmm. And it's just been so exciting Yeah. As I've been using this tool and talking through the different stages for people to be able to see themselves as they've moved through these stages Mhmm. And to realize that when they've hit stages, like being at the wall where it just feels like things maybe aren't working the way that they once did, or that God maybe feels distant in a way that he hadn't prior to that, that they're not broken.

Rick: 09:07

Oh, yeah.

Svea: 09:08

That there's not something wrong with them. Yes. I liked how you pointed out that we have this fear that maybe when things have gone not the way we wanted to in our faith Mhmm. That it's not a you problem

Rick: 09:18

It's not a you problem.

Svea: 09:19

It's an Us thing.

Rick: 09:20

It's an Us thing. Right? So you and I'm it's not even an Us problem. It's just a thing. Mhmm.

Rick: 09:25

It's it's just it's just part of the journey and that's okay. Now, I'm gonna be very clear. Like there are things along the journey where I might be experiencing distance from God and and sometimes it's just like, it's it's something it's a necessary thing to work through sometimes that might be in my life because because I can assume that I need to to wrestle down. Right? But, yeah, experiencing this journey, this movement, even hitting the wall.

Rick: 09:51

No. It's not a problem. This isn't us thing. And it's always been a thing. I mean, Paul's writing to people who need a little bit of clarity on how to follow the way of Jesus when he isn't there to like just whisper the play into their ear.

Rick: 10:03

Yeah. Here. I want you to be able to act on this even when I'm not there with you.

Svea: 10:09

Do you think Jesus is more of a soccer fan than a football fan?

Rick: 10:14

I'm not gonna get into that. He's got he's gotta love football more. American football, man.

Svea: 10:18

Oh. Okay.

Rick: 10:19

I mean, I love soccer. I think it's fun. I think it's I think it's a lot of fun.

Svea: 10:23

But I liked your analogy Yeah. In the message there that, you know, the spiritual life isn't like football where we get an evaluation and a play determined Yeah. Between each play. Yeah. And and yet we're just out there doing

Rick: 10:35

You're just out there doing it. And really you got to have a level of understanding that empowers you to make decisions, to make judgment calls, to to live in the moment with confidence. And that's part of what this journey should be producing in us. Mhmm. Yeah.

Svea: 10:50

So we've we've dropped these six stages in a few different like I I had mentioned it in a sermon that I preached a few months ago. Yeah. And, and we've introduced it in some pockets. I think we've even talked about it on the podcast a little bit, a few months ago as well. And I know it's a lot of information for people to initially take in.

Svea: 11:10

We have put a one page handout, as well as a tool to help people kind of be able to see themselves and where they think they might be on the spiritual journey

Rick: 11:19

Yeah.

Svea: 11:19

On our website. They're both available on our small group resources page. But just kind of quickly in a nutshell, walk us through the first three stages, the wall, and the second three stages.

Rick: 11:30

Well, you're gonna have to you're gonna have to help me. I'll help you. Are you willing to collaborate with me? The first one is We're just we're we're discovering, wow, God wants a relationship with me and the way that I can have that is through Jesus. Mhmm.

Rick: 11:43

And when someone's there, Svea, what are the kind of kind of things that

Svea: 11:47

Oh, it's excitement. Yeah. It's like a whole new world is opened up to them. Maybe they feel like they've been given freedom from an old way of life, freedom from things that they had struggled with, a new outlook, a new perspective. There's just this excitement.

Rick: 12:01

Yeah. And it's kind of a a just real centering on Jesus. I know I want Jesus. I'm not necessarily sure that I know everything and, where all this is going, but I wanna be with him. I'm I'm in with him.

Svea: 12:13

Yeah. Yeah. And then then we move into the learning phase.

Rick: 12:15

Learning phase. Yeah. And this is some people describe it like being a sponge. Right? This is where I'm really I I've got things that that that I that I wanna learn and and maybe people are list they're just devouring podcasts from from Bible teachers, from pastors, maybe it's something like the the Bible Project.

Rick: 12:33

You just kinda love coming to church. Maybe you're a double dipper, you know. People are just gonna sit in a sermon a couple of times because they're they're loving taking notes. They're they're loving what they're they love going to the classes and and reading books and and stuff like that. Take it on.

Rick: 12:46

And either you might even hear someone say something like, oh, I just I I there's so much that I feel like I don't know. And I'm just I'm just thirsting for for more information because it makes sense. It's starting to make sense of my life. Starting to make sense of the way my life used to be.

Svea: 13:00

And then in healthy development, people get to a place of not wanting just to be an inward focused consumer

Rick: 13:06

Yeah.

Svea: 13:06

But wanna live out their faith Yeah. And put it into practice That's and move into the doing faith.

Rick: 13:10

That's right. It's just it's you know, one of the things we've talked around here about is I I I it's good to receive joy in in what we receive from others. Right? It's good to find joy in what we would like receive from our church, but there's also so much joy to be discovered in what we give. And people are in the doing phase.

Rick: 13:29

They're just like, oh my goodness. I I wanna serve. I want God to be happy with me. I I wanna I wanna put a smile on his face. As I'm as I'm serving and loving on other people, putting my spiritual gifts into practice, what a it it yeah.

Rick: 13:43

Super exciting time. A lot of people I think a lot of people feel like their growth is, just it's got afterburners on it. It's just rocket fuel, just moving forward.

Svea: 13:54

Mhmm. But it seems to be not uncommon when someone's been in that learning phase Yeah. That doing phase for a long time that there can be a period of burnout. Yeah. Either maybe they have literally just burned themselves out in serving or

Rick: 14:07

Yeah.

Svea: 14:08

Or the the closeness that they felt with God initially, that excitement that they had in the discovering phase just feels like it's cooled. And it just seems to be so liberating when people realize that the same God who created us to relate to each other in relationships and gave us certain emotions in the beginning of a relationship, and then as a relationship matures, some of those feelings change. He's the same God that designed the way we relate to him too. And so just like, you know, in a new love relationship, there's that initial period of, like, butterflies and and jitters and fluttering heartbeats whenever you're around that person. Yeah.

Svea: 14:44

But as that relationship matures into something deeper, richer, more stable, you might not have the same butterflies.

Rick: 14:50

Absolutely.

Svea: 14:50

But it's changed into something that's more trust based, and you've been through ups and downs of life together. And same thing in our relationship with God.

Rick: 14:59

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And some of the things that people might experience is, yeah, the the learning new information or or it's not hitting me the same way. I I still see it as good.

Rick: 15:13

And I still see the serving as good, but I I just it's this sense that is there something more? Have I missed something? And again, this is really where it's so important to remember this is not a you problem. Mhmm. This isn't us thing.

Rick: 15:26

This is this is a natural thing. We call it the wall. And and not that we came up with this, these these are what we're going through. We're putting our language to things that we've we've learned from researchers and Christian psychologists and others who've really spent a lot of time researching this and and mapping this out. But yeah, this is a this is kind of a it's kind of a real thing, and maybe people are what are some of the things that people are saying?

Rick: 15:49

It's fair.

Svea: 15:50

At the wall?

Rick: 15:51

At the wall.

Svea: 15:51

This is, you know, for a lot of people, it might be a period of doubt. It may be like big unanswered questions are resurfacing. For other people, it might be kind of a disillusionment that what they expected their faith to do for them maybe isn't performing in the way they thought it would. Yeah. And, or God isn't acting in the way that they thought he would, or they're not feeling God's presence in the way they used to.

Rick: 16:13

And simplistic answers do not work. Mhmm. Not that anybody was ever targeting simplistic answers or we were trying to give people simplistic answers, but there is there there's a need to see the the complexity, the depth, the nuance of wisdom and truth that's available Mhmm. In Christ. And I don't even know that this analogy is is the right one to use, but I I remember, you know, like there was a time when when my kids were really really little and like where does the baby come from?

Rick: 16:41

Well, comes from the hospital, you know. The doctor takes out of mommy's tummy. That's all they needed, right? Yeah. And there's a time when we just need we just need like just just give me just a little bit of information, Right?

Rick: 16:51

But then as we're growing, there's a hunger and there's a need for, okay, I need I need a bit more here. I'm sure we've all experienced this. I know this is a part of your story, Svea, that, yeah, we need to know that God is in control and he's not shocked by anything, and that we can trust him and he's good even when the world is wrong Mhmm. Even during disaster. But then when we experience that, we're like, okay, that answer was good and it's true, but I need to I need to double click on that.

Rick: 17:20

I need to know the depth of that answer now that I'm in the depth of a pit of whatever this adversity Yeah. I'm in right now. Yeah. Sometimes we hear the word thrown around deconstruction. Mhmm.

Rick: 17:30

Right? And, yeah, that's not something to be afraid of. There's something good on the other side of the wall. Keep going.

Svea: 17:37

Reconstruct our faith.

Rick: 17:38

That's right. Yeah. Keep going.

Svea: 17:39

So I love the line from the message that you had that said our faith can travel only as far as our view of Jesus will take us.

Rick: 17:47

Mhmm.

Svea: 17:48

And I think there's so much truth in that that if our faith has been built only on the learning and the doing stage. Yeah. Learning the truth Mhmm. Beginning to do what's what's pleasing to God, and that's all that it is. We have a very small limited view of a Jesus that's so much bigger.

Rick: 18:08

Yeah. Let him kick the walls down on your imagination. Yeah. Ex let him expand your view of who he is.

Svea: 18:15

And the the later three stages

Rick: 18:16

on Yeah. The

Svea: 18:17

other side of the wall Yeah. Seem to be about discovering a Jesus that's so much bigger than we initially realized. Mhmm. About a God who has love and mercy and compassion and justice Mhmm. And all of these amazing qualities in depths that that we haven't even begun to to reach yet.

Rick: 18:38

Yeah. You know, I feel like I've gone through the wall stage, and I I don't I'm I'm not even sure that it's been like a one time thing. The what a season of contemplating, and that's the the

Svea: 18:49

Fourth stage.

Rick: 18:50

That's what we're calling it after after the wall is, okay, Jesus and what he's done and who he is and what he says, it has some things to do, can put a light on, it can bring truth to some of the hurts I've been carrying, some of my coping patterns that I've developed over my life. It's got truth for some of my family of origin influences, and I've got some family of origin influences, you know.

Svea: 19:20

We both do.

Rick: 19:20

Yeah. I got some ways that I kind of the things about my experiences, and my past, and my home life, and all of that affect how I approach relationships, how I approach people, and how I relate to God. Mhmm. And now this is I think hard work is fair is a fair way to describe it, but it's good and it's healing that the gospel is starting to really, saturate and affect those areas.

Svea: 19:47

Well, I just wanna say to people that maybe are finding themselves there, be encouraged. I think it can actually be a sign of God's desire to bring you into something deeper. You know, so like I mentioned in the discovering phase, sometimes people will feel free of an old way of life, you know, maybe an addiction or or a pattern of behavior. And then all of a sudden, now that they have Jesus, there's like this incredible supernatural escape from that.

Rick: 20:15

Yes.

Svea: 20:16

But then it's not atypical Mhmm. For years or or some time down the road for some of those things to start to come back. Yeah. And at the wall, people could easily be misinterpreting that as well, maybe God isn't still with me anymore. Yeah.

Svea: 20:30

Or he's not giving me what I need in the way that he used to. Yeah. Instead, it actually might be an incredibly good sign that God's saying, you're far enough along now, we're ready to start dealing with some of those

Rick: 20:41

things. Yeah.

Svea: 20:42

And facing some of those those parts of your soul that maybe you've just been trying to block off or hide or ignore, and I love you too much to just let that cancer sit there untreated. Yeah. And we're gonna do some hard work right now, and it might not be fun, but it's going to be Yeah. Good and healthy in the

Rick: 21:00

This is a stage where I think people are discovering my spiritual maturity is not going to outpace my emotional maturity and my emotional health. Yeah. And sometimes sometimes people here can say things like, you know what, I just want Jesus. But then discover, oh, but sometimes I'm using Jesus to avoid Jesus. Like I'm using religious stuff to Yeah.

Rick: 21:23

To avoid this. And if I really want Jesus, I'm gonna follow him as he wants to to lead to health in some of these areas.

Svea: 21:30

Yeah. So facing stuff in this contemplating phase moves into the fifth stage into becoming.

Rick: 21:35

Yeah. And it's not like you're not contemplating all along. And it's not like you aren't becoming all along. We are becoming. This is the word we use to describe describe this and so

Svea: 21:45

It's the main focus.

Rick: 21:46

It's the main focus. Talk to us about the main focus of the becoming stage.

Svea: 21:49

So it's it's where we're spending so much time with Jesus that we are becoming more like him in a natural way. Yeah. You know, so like in the doing phase, we're trying to live out our faith to be the hands and feet of Jesus in a way that is intentional Yeah. And is good. Mhmm.

Svea: 22:07

But it's a little bit more effort based. Yeah. In the becoming stage, we may be doing all of the same things, serving in the same kind of way, but we're doing it almost more from a place of reflexive just, it's just it's who we are.

Rick: 22:19

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We've said this is not a scorecard, there's no levels, there's no ladders, there's there's nothing like there's nothing like that. And yet, I think it's totally okay to look at other people and admire a kind of maturity that they have, or admire an experience they have.

Rick: 22:36

Like I remember when, our kids were really really really young, and Heather and I would see, parents with more adult kids and they just love hanging out. We're like, I like what they have Mhmm. And I wanna have the same kind of thing. And so it it inspires me and kinda helps orient me and and what we're what we're aiming for. I admire people who have lost or who are losing like this sense that they need to prove themselves.

Svea: 23:02

Mhmm.

Rick: 23:03

And like, want that. I want more and more of that for me. Yeah. Does that make sense?

Svea: 23:08

Well, and it might be kind of like in the doing phase

Rick: 23:11

Mhmm.

Svea: 23:11

You might be the person that says, I wanna be patient.

Rick: 23:15

Yeah.

Svea: 23:15

And today, I'm gonna commit

Rick: 23:17

to

Svea: 23:17

being patient

Rick: 23:18

Mhmm.

Svea: 23:18

And you actually make incredible progress, and you are patient in a lot of challenging situations. In the becoming phase, you are a patient person.

Rick: 23:29

Yeah.

Svea: 23:29

It's it it could be the exact same behavior

Rick: 23:32

Yeah.

Svea: 23:32

But in one, it's a little bit more I'm making the choice to be patient in this scenario, in the becoming phase because of the time you have spent with Jesus, because of the the hard work you have done to bring him into the inner parts of your soul Mhmm. Because of the years of walking faithfully with him Mhmm. You've now become the kind of person who can just react that way.

Rick: 23:55

So, Anne, do you like AI?

Svea: 23:57

I'm fascinated by it.

Rick: 23:58

You're fascinated by it? I we have some fun. On on some of my family and friend text threads, there's been quite a few fun AI generated photos of pets and things like that. I like AI, and I and I like how, it can help with with research. I I I just I think it's a cool tool.

Rick: 24:16

I it's been helpful to me on my health journey as I'm, you know, like trying to, you know, shed a couple of pounds and, you know, it there's so many great things about AI that I love. Let me tell you something I hate about AI.

Svea: 24:30

What's that?

Rick: 24:30

It's all product and no process.

Svea: 24:34

Okay. Say more.

Rick: 24:35

It's it'll give you results. Right? It'll give you an outcome. It'll give you information. It'll give you whatever the thing you're looking for, but you can totally bypass the process of getting there.

Rick: 24:47

And I hate that. And I hate that for people who are young, who are missing out on the years of going through the process that's needed. Yeah. And that shortcut is gonna shortcut a whole lot of things in their life and in their future. And I just want people to breathe and rest and know that the process is good.

Rick: 25:08

Yeah. The product of looking like Jesus, if I can use that term, so important. The product of becoming a patient person that's good, But that process early on that you described it, like today, I am applying my heart to patience and I'm gonna choose to be patient and I'm I'm going to I'm gonna keep this note on my phone and I'm gonna I'm gonna read through some tips that I need to be patient. I'm gonna focus on it. That's good.

Rick: 25:29

Mhmm. That's you'd like you never become a person who just like breathes out patience Mhmm. Unless you earlier go through that process.

Svea: 25:36

Mhmm.

Rick: 25:37

So, yeah, I I just don't want anybody to be discouraged. Be encouraged. It's good.

Svea: 25:41

And all of this is driving us to the final stage of true sanctification Yeah. Where we are the people who are living out what Jesus said is the greatest commandment, to love God and love your neighbor.

Rick: 25:52

That's right.

Svea: 25:52

And, and people in this final stage, this loving stage, they're just the kind of people that you can tell love is what's motivating everything that they do.

Rick: 26:00

Yeah. Is this is a stage that some of the research that we've come across, they're like, not a lot of people might care. It takes a long time. And we all want to be there. We're all like, yeah, want that to to to describe me.

Rick: 26:12

I want that to

Svea: 26:13

Yeah.

Rick: 26:13

To describe me too.

Svea: 26:14

Wish that described you too.

Rick: 26:16

Thank you, Sam. Well done. Well done. Welcome to the sarcasm club. And me too.

Rick: 26:23

Like people who just like consistently live this out, I feel like I've met two. Like I know two people Mhmm. In my life. Mhmm. Right?

Rick: 26:32

And that's not a dig on anybody. Yeah. But like when you meet someone who's like this, you'd it's just like I just wanna sit at their feet

Svea: 26:40

Yeah.

Rick: 26:41

And be with them. Yeah. Are Or when you're

Svea: 26:44

with them, you feel like Jesus is right there too.

Rick: 26:47

I feel like they've been with Jesus. Yeah. I feel like I I'm closer to where Jesus is just because of the my proximity to this person.

Svea: 26:53

Yeah. Yeah.

Rick: 26:54

Yeah. And so I hope that I hope that Jesus gives me enough time and to to let me eventually one day be a little bit like that.

Svea: 27:05

Yeah. Yeah. Me too.

Rick: 27:06

So what do you think? You think this you think this series is gonna be helpful?

Svea: 27:10

I'm so excited about this series. Like I said, I've because I've been rolling this out with various groups and and different people.

Rick: 27:16

Mhmm.

Svea: 27:17

I have just watched people express such freedom Yeah. In hearing these things. Yeah. Of being able to situate themselves on where they're currently, where they've been, where they wanna be in the future. Mhmm.

Svea: 27:29

Feeling like this is like a map. Not a formula, not a prescription, but like a map that just helps us kind of get the lay of the land and and begin to think about like, where am I in this stage? What kind of work might God be doing in my life? And and where can I most focus on how he's trying to grow me in this particular stage that I'm in and be able to move forward? And, you know, like we said at the beginning, the goal of what we're doing is trying to help people become more like Jesus.

Rick: 27:58

That's right.

Svea: 27:58

And it's a lot easier to become like something if you have a picture of of what that looks like.

Rick: 28:03

Yeah. Yeah. And so, man, I hope people are encouraged. I hope they buckle up and stick around with us. I hope people will will be here every week.

Rick: 28:10

And for those of you, something comes up and it keeps you from being with us, watch online and get in a group. Have a have a group of people who you're with

Svea: 28:20

Yeah.

Rick: 28:20

And who you can who can really process this stuff together with. And it'll

Svea: 28:26

So most of our small groups are gonna be going through discussion questions

Rick: 28:29

Mhmm.

Svea: 28:30

On all of this. That's all available on our website

Rick: 28:32

That's right.

Svea: 28:32

Under the small group resources. Mhmm. But even if you're not in one of our formal autumn ridge groups, I'd encourage anyone to download these questions and find someone to talk through them.

Rick: 28:41

You don't need permission to talk talk these through with anybody.

Svea: 28:44

Has to be programmed. Yeah.

Rick: 28:46

Get together with your friends. Talk about it.

Svea: 28:47

Yeah. And just process what God doing in your life right now. And so I'm just thrilled that we are gonna spend the next eight weeks focused on on this framework and and where God is leading all of us on this expedition of our faith journey.