How to Train Your Intern (ft. Mack George)

Nine interns speak on their big break this summer, and how other students can find an amazing internship, too.

Creators and Guests

Host

Jordan Miller

Guest

Mack George

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How to Train Your Intern

00:00:00 Speaker: Welcome to the Intern Survival Guide. The second summer, where it's even hotter than last year. We're welcoming you from the Annex Wealth Management headquarters in Brookfield, Wisconsin. I'm Jordan Miller, the marketing intern for summer 2025, and I'm here with a few other people, actually, a lot of people, eight, to be exact. So let's start by introducing everyone. Hi everyone. My name is Reina Wu, the financial planning intern for the summer, and I go to the University of Wisconsin-Madison studying personal finance, financial planning and econ. Hi everybody. My name is Kali Griffin. I am on the investment team currently. I go to University of Wisconsin-Whitewater. I am a finance major with an emphasis in investments. Hello, my name is Aaron and I'm in the wealth management department. I am currently attending the University of Wisconsin-Lacrosse and getting a degree in accounting and personal financial planning. Hey everyone, I'm Henry Dierkes. I'm interning in compliance here this summer. I go to Concordia University in Wisconsin and I am studying finance. Hello, my name is Peter Platzer. I'm in the IT department. I go to the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater. Going for a computer science degree. Hi all, my name is Jack Laubusch. I am a senior at the University of Wisconsin-Madison currently studying financial planning. I work at Annex this summer as an operations intern. Hey everybody, my name is Pieter Mulder. I am a client service intern this summer, and I'm an incoming senior at the University of Wisconsin studying personal finance. Hello everybody. My name is Ashton Beste and I'm currently working at annex in the Wealth management department. I attend the University of Wisconsin-Madison, and I'm studying economics. And today we also have with us Mack George. Hi, Mack. Hello. So Mack is our talent acquisition specialist at Annex. You do acquire talent, but you actually do a lot more than that. So I'm wondering what is your role kind of entailed so far? That's a great question. So I do a lot of HR support that goes from, first of all, recruitment. After everybody's on board, we found our top talent on board them onto Annex's site. Depending on which branch they're at, we're going to make that work. We usually bring them to our headquarters to all the training here, and then we send them off to their branch. But additionally, things from culture, making it a really nice place to work. There's a lot more that goes into that than you would think. So happy to dive into that if you have any more questions. Yeah. So how did you actually end up getting into the acquisition role? So I would like to say it was a really easy, natural transition, but that was not the case. So I had gone to school for art history. I thought I wanted to be an art history professor, and my second, I think it was my second week. My professor said, this is great. I love that you want to do what I do, but man, I just think you would be much better off somewhere else. And so I kind of took a step back. And freshman in college went, okay, that didn't go how I had planned. So eventually I had transitioned schools. I went to school for business, and I had landed my first job, which was in sales. I was living in downtown Chicago and had a café job on the side. Learned I loved connecting with people. Loved, loved, loved people. And I just decided, you know, there's got to be something more impactful that I can do. And so I sold products, I sold retirement plans, kind of landed into a recruiting job. After that was a mixture of my people focus. Learned I didn't really like products as much. Took another pause and said, there's got to be something else that I could do where it's more than just pairing a person with a seat. There's got to be way more than that. And so I learned through one of my really early jobs through Fiddleheads. It's actually a coffee shop up in Thiensville, Wisconsin. And the CEO kind of taught me the foundations of recruiting from there. It's such a beautiful thing to look at placing the right person in the right seat. It's really, really fulfilling to see. Once you get some extreme talent in an organization that's going to help them flourish and grow. Here at Annex Wealth Management, transitioning a little bit more than just beyond recruiting. Now I'm in human resources. Getting to see kind of the product of that talent put in the right seat, what it can mean for firm and transition that culture. And I've really noticed it because all of the interns are so motivated. They all showed up to the first intern meeting, which I thought was crazy. I honestly didn't expect it. To have that is really important. So what do you think goes into finding these interns? Gosh, you guys are great. I think we're so lucky to have such a group of high caliber interns. Last year's interns was my first group that I got to experience, and they were just stellar as well. So obviously there's some recipe for success that we have in getting a group as fantastic as we did last year. I wish I could have seen the previous years. I'm sure it would be about the same as well, but there's a lot of things that go into our process. Of course, once we get your guys's attention, we go to these career fairs, campus events, networking events, who, you know, referrals, things like that. But it starts with you guys. Seeing the execution of how much you guys are putting yourself out there, the aptitude of what you're willing to do to go find an internship. Things like that are important. As I'm looking at a lot of these students, I met Reina at a career fair. I met Kali at a career fair. I think I met most of you at a career fair. A couple of you I met through personal referrals and my first example is Jordan. Jordan came up to our booth in a pink suit. I did top to bottom, and I remember I turned to to Nick and Brady and I said, let's take a bet on what degree he's going for. And we went, uh, you know, maybe, maybe it's some kind of communications. And Jordan came right on up and he started talking to us and he goes, I'm in marketing. I'm looking to get an internship. And I was just totally blown away by the confidence because he was setting himself apart from the crowd. But to me, that was a really cool thing to see is in such an intimidating environment. I mean, that's incredibly daunting that gym at Whitewater is huge. You guys go to Whitewater. You know, I would hate to run track and field in there. That is far too long. Kali I had met as well too. She came right up with confidence. She had a blazer on. She was prepared. She had her resumes, things like that, where you're really taking it upon yourself to know what you want, know how to approach those conversations. Maybe you don't have all the answers that they're going to ask you right away. They might ask you one. Do you want to do in ten years? You might not know, and that's okay. But it really starts with keeping yourself confident, composed, poised and going after those conversations. And the suit was a lot pinker than I thought originally. So I think the one thing I would have regretted is just trying to fit in because I feel like I almost didn't buy the pink suit because I was like, is this going to work? Or am I just going to look like an idiot? And I was like, no, as long as I look like an idiot, but then I come up and actually explain why I'm not, it'll be fine. And it was because I'm here. It worked out alright. Mhm. I'm wondering from you guys, the interns, what were your unique stories of how you got here? Henry's got a good one. Well, so through a program at my school, Concordia, I met Tom Parks, and I sort of started to shadow at Annex and got to really see the office, how it worked, what the people were like, both Mequon and here in Brookfield. And Tom sort of showed me around, and I thought it was really, really interesting and compelling, just the way that the work environment was maybe different than what you'd expect for finance, where it can seem very high stress and not very friendly. It was actually the opposite. So I talked with Tom about potentially looking at an internship and then connected with Matt Morzy for coffee, and that just snowballed into me coming in for an interview here at Brookfield. Now I'm in compliance and it's been a great experience. Just goes to show that networking is super important. I met Tom at a random program at Concordia through some events, and our relationship went to even events outside of work together as well. Who you know and how you maintain relationships is very important, and Tom is a great first person to meet because he's really funny. I'll just say, um, my story was not the most unorthodox, but I had met Mack at the career fair, and I was actually on my way out. You guys were near the door. I decided to stop and say hello. One of the things Mack had said to me was she handed me the little pamphlet and said, apply to all six positions. I really didn't think I wanted anything to do with probably four out of six of those. But she said it's very rotational role, and I really think you'll find your place in it. And I'm really glad she gave me that advice, because first of all, it is a very rotational role. But Annex, it's small enough where we get a glimpse into each department here as interns, but it's big enough where it's reputable and you really feel that in the internship program. So thank you for that advice, Mack, because that's played really well into my position this summer. Can I throw a question back? You can. How many of you landed an internship that you specifically were hoping you would get? Got one. Isn't that kind of crazy? We had six internship departments, and one of you landed in the one. Kali did too? Yeah, no, I did Well I guess three. Okay, well, you know what? Great point. So how many? We've got nine interns. We had six departments. Reina had landed in financial planning. That was the one she was pulling for. But the rest of you landed either as an addition to our program this year, or you're somewhere where you maybe thought, okay, that's not really anything I'm necessarily studying. I don't know how that would apply to my degree or my future career, but I'm sure now you can see this is week three that you guys have been running around like crazy. Starting to meet new people. Really seeing what it means to define a fiduciary. And I think that's cool that you guys will be able to really know the difference between what you guys are doing here, what you're learning at school, and how you can actually apply that to a full time job, kind of given that combination of things, are you starting to see the connection between each department and how we truly can't be successful unless we have each other to lean on and row that boat in the same direction? Yes, I communicate with Bonnie a lot because she does the events. Specifically, she's juggling maybe eighteen events at once. That was the exact number she told me. So that's not a made up number. Everyone is so integral. All of the hiring is intentional. Well, you guys show a curiosity and a willingness to learn and apply yourself. And really, you know, you're making an impact more than you would think. Just being here, learning your sole job here is to learn and be able to make yourself a sponge. I sponge. I think we all talked about that in every interview you guys have had. Is what are you hoping to get out of your interns this year? And all of us have said be a sponge. There's nothing more beneficial than when you're able to leave and wring out all of that knowledge and information that you've got and figure out, okay, what did I love doing? Maybe what are some things I didn't like doing? But now I know you've kind of got that direction too. So, Mack, with that piece on intentional hiring, through the process of exploring each different team at Annex, it seems like each team has their own sort of culture within them, how how they get along, values that they have. So I'm wondering, how long did it take you to get your finger on the pulse of each team, and how much does that go into the hiring process? That's a really good question. I'd say I saw that very distinctly in my interview, my very first interview with Ondine. It's very even apparent - it almost drips into all of our media and everything you see on Instagram, LinkedIn, things like that. The reporting you'll see just in general. It starts to bleed into all of those things, really demonstrating a unified culture overall as a brand. But when I had come and I had met with Ondine and we met on a Zoom interview super quick, she wanted to just get to know me a little bit, you know, see my face, just get a sense for, are we even going to click? And so now reflecting back on that, it was very apparent just in my personal experience coming here as soon as that first foot was in the door, day one, it was go. It was not slow. It was very fast-paced. It was very clear that the work you do here, no matter if you're earlier in your career, if you're a senior in your career, it's making an impact, right? We can't row that boat with one... Was it an oar? Yeah, right. You can't row a boat with one oar, because what would happen? You'd just go around in circles. Yeah, right. So I had to pick up an oar and immediately get to work and start to learn a little bit more of what our culture means. And you're very correct, Pieter. There are certain dichotomies in each team, but that's really a cultivation of a blend of deepening our existing overall culture. You have to find people you can work with. You have to find people you can trust. That goes into a lot of our behavioral interviewing is what it's called. You guys have all walked through that. Whether you are aware of it or not. You've all probably answered a behavioral interview question. If you've interviewed with me, you certainly have, but it goes into inner workings of purely the questions that we ask, the assessments that we have you guys take helps us understand who you are innately as a person, and how we can support your career growth and where you'll find yourself more successful. Those areas where, you know, you could maybe consider it a flaw, but we don't consider them flaws. We don't consider them weaknesses. They're only growing points. That helps us better understand where we can support you in a career at Annex Wealth Management. So knowing that that culture goes so far just beyond the recruiting, it goes into everything we do. It's very pivotal. Once you're here, I know you guys probably feel it and see it as well too, but everything's connected. I know the Annex has been awarded the Top Workplace Award seven times, which is crazy. So what sort of behaviour specifically do you think it takes to keep that motivation and engagement between everyone? Not just for the honeymoon period, but consistently forever? I love that phrase. First of all, consistently forever. I think that's a great goal because as much as we may feel we're perfect on some days, no one's ever perfect. What makes you really sound and stand out in an industry where there's a lot of people trying to do a very similar thing, that's making a lot of impact. You have to be consistently improving, or at least putting in the effort to consistently improve together and grow together. First piece of that that goes into what makes us a seven time best workplace is our values, our lived values. I'm going to tell you what they are, unless anyone has a guess. This is your quiz now as interns, there's integrity. There's one say it in the mic. Integrity. Honesty. Knowledge. Courage. Accountability. One more. Two more. Respect. Ownership. Wow. Great job everybody. So once you have those values defined and you can go back and reflect on those. And everybody knows that same vision, the way you're able to execute yourselves as a team goes further beyond than you would think. Something that I think is really important when you focus on culture. What are the things that define that culture? I'd say secondly, playing off of one of our values to is mutual respect and ownership. There's a lot of autonomy in what we do. We trust each other that we're going to put our best foot forward, always putting 130%. Being able to have that trust in your team and your colleagues is really pivotal. I'd say, thirdly, a focus on growth and development. Maybe I'm biased being in human resources and having Ondine Wallinger as my boss, but the dedication and devotion that we have to again, continuous improvement, always looking for ways to grow. It might not be immediately visible. You might not see everything, all the little details that go into it behind the scenes. But man, when I tell you that I've been at a lot of companies that I feel do it very differently, and the way that Annex is able to put our best foot forward for each other day in and day out. That's a really reassuring piece of that as well. Yeah, and it's unique because we actually follow the values that we put out there. Any company can have the words where it's like word period, word period. But I think the best way to know if the company actually upholds those values is internally and I think we've all seen that. I think the first time I saw that was after my in-person interview, and Mack kind of gave me the follow up email and said that they want to have results out before Thanksgiving so that we can go home and tell our family that we got an internship, which I think - even just that foresight and like thinking about us and, you know, the excitement that we'll get from potentially landing this internship, I think that really shows it. And I was told I would get a response on Friday and I got it on Thursday. So that was cool. Go HR! They're speedy. Peter makes a great point as well too. You know obviously we set goals and as much as we try to execute those as quickly as possible, again some things may need reworking. Some things may need a little bit more thought put into them. But our goal of Thanksgiving is being able to have you guys go back home and say, I got an internship! The ones of you that came later on should also celebrate that, because we added you into the program! When we were set to have six, we got nine. That is a win. I think that's a huge success and that's one of those things we celebrate. That's something that didn't go to plan, but it turned out even better because we have that much more brain power and passion and collaboration in our program. We continue to celebrate the wins that we have together, because it's important to recognize those wins, big or small, they're big to us. It's a big deal when a project gets an improvement or somebody learns a new skill or you meet a new person, those are all really big wins that we should all continue to celebrate together, and we fit all of them into one tiny room. They're all here. How were you able to add more interns? By the blessings of Dave Spano. Thank you. Dave. Okay, I have one last question. What's one thing that interns don't usually do that you think would improve their experience during their internship? I think there's something different every year that we learn with this internship program. Really, the biggest thing I could think of is proactiveness, being able to get out of that comfort zone and uncertainty and go seek those people that you may or may not have met yet. Maybe you passed them in the hallway, maybe they spoke on a podcast or radio show, or a wealth manager meeting. Going out of your way to proactively schedule and practice those skills of smaller collaboration, sending a calendar invite, walking into their office saying "hey, you know, I would love to grab twenty minutes of your time. Whatever works for you. I'll find some time, put it on your calendar. Let's connect." Those skills, as small or large or super comfortable or intimidating, whatever it may be. You know, there's a lot of variety to that task itself, but being able to make those meetings happen for yourself, getting that networking pool, building it now is key. Because it can't all be done for you, and people will never know if you don't just ask. Can I return another question? Yeah. Who is the most impactful person you have met so far in your three weeks at Annex and why? Uh, Mack, to answer your question, I would say the most impactful person I've heard from so far, I would say Eric Strom, and I think a lot of people would concur with that. Eric's words come through very clearly. He's very good at illustrating his thoughts, and everything he says just sounds like words of wisdom. He's kind of like an office Yoda, but I also think it's very relevant information. And surprisingly, a lot of it is just unrelated to anything business. It's all life skills and just how to be a better person in general. I believe everything he said will translate to an office setting, in relationships, wherever it may be. Eric Strom is also known for giving incredible book recommendations. Henry, I had just borrowed you a book that Eric and I mutually had read separately, but once I came to Annex, him and I were talking about building relationships, deepening existing relationships, and he paused and he said, hold on one second. He turned around. He swiveled in his chair, and he swiveled right back and he said, have you ever read this book? And he held up a book. And I looked at him and we both kind of went, huh, okay, We're speaking the same language. It's really cool to see once you start picking people's brains outside of just kind of a day to day task orientation, what you'll learn. So I'll be curious to see Henry by the end of this program, should you finish that book, let us know a review. Thank you, Mack, for being on this podcast. The sort of personal points that we touched on really helped shift it from just a business to actual people working here. And so I really appreciate you being on the Intern Survival Guide podcast. Thank you guys for having me. And thank you for continually elevating the work we do here at Annex. It is such a honor that we get nine interns this year, so thanks for having me. Thank you. Thank you Mack. So I want to use this segment to reflect on what we talked about with Mack. Before I ask my questions, is there anything that Mack said that stood out to you? Jordan, one of the things Mack spoke on was her time right after school and one of her first jobs. She had a mentor with the whole recruitment process and how that works as a recruiter. And that's something you don't really think about in our shoes because we're so concerned about, as the interviewer, what goes into that whole process, trying to prep questions and whatnot. It shows, you know, they really put thought into the questions they're asking. Mack mentioned that nobody is perfect and there are always processes that can be improved. I was actually feeling some stress this week, and it was kind of physically impossible for me to be in every place at once. It kind of taught me, like, even though I want to say yes to most things, it's not a terrible thing to have to say no once in a while. So what would you guys say is one of the most stressful things you've dealt with so far? Personally, the first day when we had to talk in front of the entire company, I was definitely sweating a little when I walked up and had to say a few things about me. I would probably say just the first week of our internship in general, because this was all so new for us, so we had no idea what to expect, what the work hours were going to feel like. And so I think getting past that part of it has made everything else just a little bit easier. And in the three weeks, do you think you've adjusted well? Definitely. I will say something that's been stressful for me, or at least certainly was, was like adjusting to coming to work every day and staying here for what was long hours to start and trying to, like, fit in and figure out, okay, this is these are what my days are going to look like and just getting used to the new environment. But some of us already touched on, I think that has got a lot better as time has gone on and feeling like I'm more in the flow of things because I think it feels unnatural to be in this type of business environment at first. I know one of my first days I had a random lunch with Emma and Greg and they were just talking about all this complex business stuff, and I was like, I can't even contribute to what they're saying because I have no idea what they're talking about. And so I kind of just sat there and it was like, am I making a bad impression right now? But I don't think so. It's not a big deal. The most stressful thing that I did was yesterday, when I had to, like, figure out a timing that worked for eight people for a meeting. So I know our interviews couldn't have been that bad. Obviously, if we're all standing here right now, but I'm wondering if any of you have a mistake that you made in your interview where it made you kind of think, I don't think I got the job. So one thing that I'm sure we've all heard during the interview process, you need to have questions and you need to be prepared to ask them at the end. My interview process was much more of a conversation rather than just question and answer. So a lot of the things that I prepared, all the questions that I had kind of got answered through the entire interview, and it got towards the end, and I was feeling really good about the interview. I was happy with how it went. And then they asked if I had any questions and I was like, I sat there for a second. I was like, no, I think I'm good. Which ending it like that was a little scary to walk out, but it turned out okay. So. Well, that's funny because literally the exact same thing happened to me. I was coming up with questions throughout the entire interview and I was like, yes, this is going so well. And then they asked me that final, like, do you have any more questions? And I just like sat there in silence for like five seconds. And I was like, this is bad. Like, I got to say something, even if it's like, it doesn't even make sense. So I was like, I didn't prepare any more questions. And that was the last question, obviously. So I walked out after that and I was like, I did not get this job, whatever, I'm just going to go to bed. I think I ordered like Panda Express or something because I was like, I got to get like some type of food because that was bad. I did the same thing. I went and got a milkshake afterwards to comfort myself, so... That's awesome. I definitely walked out thinking I did not get the position. I didn't necessarily make a mistake, but Trevor was just plugging me with questions. So I definitely just thought I didn't get it because I didn't think I responded well. I also got my wisdom teeth out that week when I had my interview. That was a hot mess in itself. That's fun. Yeah, I think it's the pre-workout that he has. Oh, definitely. Oh, he came in just absolutely ready to destroy the interview. Yeah. I think the fact that Annex was more looking for potential and good candidates, that seemed like they were willing to learn, rather than somebody coming in with a lot of knowledge already. It's just another part of why the interview process was different, and I feel like it makes a lot of sense for an internship to be that way, because anyone at that level can brag about what they know, but everyone has pretty much the same level of college education. One of the things I will say about the interview process here at Annex, when it would reach the end, it would come back to a question from my resume. 75% of the conversation, I'd say, at least, had to do with questions related to experiences on the resume. So what I kind of took from that was don't kind of fabricate things. Make sure everything you did was genuine. You actually benefited from it. Not only does it make you look better, but it also helps you just be more passionate about your talking points. So I actually applied to around thirty places, which doesn't sound like that much. It felt like a lot more. It was a pretty brutal process for me, and I kind of poured my heart out for the Annex interview and I was like, if I don't get this job, I'm going to take a break from applying because it was a brutal process just trying to do that with school going on at the same time, two different campus jobs that I was doing to like gain experience. It was a crazy process. I definitely empathize with people who go through that process. Even though it was a brutal process, now that I'm here, I can kind of see myself slowly creeping into the role that I kind of dreamed of for a long time. I think this is a really cool place to be a part of. I'm wondering if you guys feel similar. Yeah. Jordan, I believe there is a lot of opportunities here at Annex. Something that just came up recently for me was in my one on ones with my manager, Ryan. Kind of just went over the steps of what it looks like if we were to work here after and how we would develop our personal growth, I think it's really important that they have a plan set out for each and every one of us in order to grow our skills. Everyone has a great chance to be what they want to be. You could say it's an infinite sea and we're all rowing the oars. I like it. Thank you Ashton. Going off what Ashton said. Whether or not we decide to stay at Annex, I think we're learning the fact that this environment is something we really want in the future. So I feel like finding out what we want to do, but also the environment is, is great. Yeah, because I think the environment creates the work in a way. You can have the industry, but the way all of the work is done is based on the people within the company. I would agree, and I would say already the industry feels way more approachable than it did even just a month ago before starting this internship. And like you said, Kali, Kali mentioned the environment that we're in, whether it be at Annex or not. I think we all know what a high standard looks like now. So while we're searching for jobs after this within Annex or, you know, years down the road, we know what a good culture is and what a company looks like that wants to grow an individual. Um, and Kali and Peter bring up a great point being that when you first start the whole internship recruitment process, you're focused so much, or at least I was, on the title of the position you're applying for, and that is important. But there's other factors that you come to realize are much more important, such as the workplace culture, environment, the opportunities you have for growth. You know, all these things that we kind of pushed to the side sometimes that sound cliche or like they don't matter. I think those things really do make the big difference in your role. I'll say from my perspective with Mack, how she said apply to all six positions. And I was like, I really don't seem too interested in about four out of the six positions, but I'm so glad I did because first of all, it's rotational. Very much so. But also Annex is a great size where we're going to get experience in every department. Yeah, thank you Jack, because yeah, we do have a ton of shadowing that we've done these past couple of weeks. And it sounds like that's not just an intern thing either. We're a small enough company where we're all close to each other in that way, and we're all able to be cross-trained so that we're super flexible, which is really cool. So Danny Clayton, our senior media producer who's actually in the room right now, but he's editing videos I believe, he told me that there are three types of people which are the madman, the artist and the critic. So the madman is the person who throws a bunch of ideas at the wall and sees if they stick. Doesn't even see if they stick, just throws them at the wall. And then the artist is the person that brings those ideas to life if they do stick, and the critic is the one that limits the artist and the madman, so which one do you think you guys are? Do you think you're the madman, the artist or the critic? Yeah, well, I think we all work on teams, and so part of our job is to be as useful as possible to that team. In a way, we're all kind of an artist where we're bringing the goals of what we're trying to accomplish, putting that in action, but also being in compliance can definitely see the critic side, where we have to look at what marketing is putting out there, not trying to step on it, but just really trying to make sure that it's within the rules and regulations that the firm has to adhere to. I think my role in compliance can be a little bit of the artist with trying to bring a bunch of projects to life, and then also the critic and just trying to really protect the firm and be overly conservative. It's necessary in a business like this where the company couldn't exist if there were SEC violations. So compliance is something that needs to exist, even if the departments butt heads sometimes. It's a very professional discourse. Just so Jordan what I assume annex likes about having new hires and interns is we come in with a fresh perspective. I think in a way we could all be critics as well, because we can see things in a new light that may not have been noticed or addressed, so we can notice inefficiencies and stuff like that. So Mack also shared her search for a satisfying job. It sounds like it was somewhat of a process. Everyone has a sort of different path to getting to that job that they actually enjoy, but I think it's cool that it's actually possible to get to that point, and that a lot of people have that realization that they're at the place that they enjoy to be at. So I'm wondering, have your college journeys been pretty straightforward? Jordan, I'll answer this question first. I actually switched my major from Elementary Education now to finance, so that was quite a drastic switch that then made me, you know, have to take some extra classes and knock out another year. But I think it's really important that if you have a little inkling that that's not for you, that it's something you need to change and you should to explore it. So I'm glad I got to finally realize that at some point before it was too late. Do you think passion was the driver for that, or what was it that drove you to change? I wouldn't necessarily say passion. I met a professor who was able to communicate the skills that he saw in me that I don't think I necessarily saw in myself. And then after I started explaining that to other people, they also saw those skills in me too. And I was like, you know what? Maybe I should make the switch because I think that does suit me better. So for me, I'm a transfer student. So I did a year and a half at the University of St. Thomas in Saint Paul, Minnesota. For me, it wasn't necessarily the subject that I was studying that made me want to change. It was more the culture of St. Thomas, and I wasn't really enjoying it there. So I took a year off and really reconsidered a lot of things, moved back home to Milwaukee, and eventually found my place at the University of Wisconsin studying a similar subject. I went from finance at St. Thomas, which was more geared towards like corporate finance, to. Now I'm studying more personal finance. But yeah, for me it was it was a scary change to essentially drop out of college and try something new. But I think it's good. Like Kali said, if you have that inclination that you need to do something, you got to trust your gut and go for it. It's - it's taking some type of action versus just doing nothing about it. I think that separates a lot of people from the people who aren't willing to do that. For my personal story, Whitewater was the only college I applied to, so I had all of this motivation and like, creative juices flowing. But I was like, how do I actually, like, get a job out of this? What even is the next step? And so I looked at Whitewater and I actually started out as computer science. The program is good. I think it just wasn't for me. For about my first year and a half, I was kind of lost with that. I was like not enjoying college. And so I made this step to switch majors, which was pretty scary. I met with my advisor. I was like, comp sci just isn't working. I don't like it. And they were like, oh, well switch it, turn it into a minor. And so I did that. It was too much trying to do marketing major and computer science minor. It just didn't make sense. The coursework was so different and so I switched to marketing finally. And that was where things started to pick up and I was like, I like this finally. And it kind of flowed into everything else, and I finally grew the confidence to actually go up to the booth and apply to different jobs. And that's how I'm here now. Jordan, I think that's a great story. Thanks for sharing that. I think it's also really important to know that we don't have to know what we want to do, or what we can do, or what we should do, or whatever it may be. I just wanted to reiterate what you were saying, kind of by saying, we don't have to know what we're doing. If you have an inkling that you might want to do something else, or you might want to try a different career, or you might want to try a different food at its simplest form, just go out and do it. So just some motivation for everybody, I guess. Thanks for tuning in to the Intern Survival Guide. Next episode. Hear from Deanne Phillips, Director of Client Learning and Development at Annex. With her over twenty-five years in the financial world, these are industry experts. So if you know of someone or are someone who's gearing up for graduation or has already graduated and is on the job search, consider this podcast a resource. Thanks for listening. Annex Wealth Management is a registered investment advisor. 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