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In the Mix is a podcast dedicated to the people, projects, and innovations shaping the masonry industry—block by block, brick by brick.
Hosted by Adam Hutchinson, Executive Director and professional engineer, this show brings together architects, engineers, contractors, and industry leaders to explore how masonry drives resilient, sustainable, and high-performance building design.
Each episode breaks down real-world applications of masonry construction, from structural integrity and fire resistance to long-term durability and environmental impact. You’ll hear behind-the-scenes insights, industry challenges, and practical conversations that matter to those designing, building, and specifying with masonry.
If you’re passionate about stronger buildings, smarter construction, and advancing masonry in modern design—this is your place to get in the mix.
Join us in supporting the Masonry Industry mission: https://masonryinstitute.com/in-the-mix
1. Jed
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[00:00:00] Welcome to In the Mix, the show that puts Masonry in the spotlight. Block by block. Brick by brick. I'm your host, Adam Hutchinson, executive director, professional engineer, industry advocate, and believer in the power of resilient building design. Every week I sit down with architects, engineers, contractors, and building.
Donors to break down how masonry makes our community stronger, safer, and more resilient. We're here to share stories, tackle the tough questions and help you see what's possible when we build better together. Let's get in the mix.
On today's episode, we're gonna be talking to Jed Oleson. He's the current president of the Masonry [00:01:00] Institute He also owns Johnston Construction with his son Hogan Oleson,
and is a great industry advocate and promoter of Masonry. We're gonna be talking about his past, how he went from panelized masonry design, and the importance of drafting and organizing how you work with a material to how we can build panelized systems such as this archway right behind us.
we are going to talk about the transitional leadership and what's needed to. Really bring up the next generation of masonry executives, masonry promoters, and also, how family businesses can help promote the masonry industry. I hope you guys enjoy and now let's get in the mix.
Jed, let's, let's get started. So, okay. Tell us about yourself, where you started, where you've been. So I started back in 1982 [00:02:00] in the masonry industry working for Barks Shire panel systems. So we did pre-manufactured brick panels and pre-manufactured granite panels and would hang them on the buildings to expedite the installation of of brick.
Okay. That's a lot. Like, then this whole archway is perfect for you, right? Where Yes. Yeah. That's kind of the inspiration behind it. So it was prefabricating something that would just install really quickly rather than bringing the mess into the office. Yeah. I mean, this thing went together really, really smoothly here in the office here.
It was a lot cleaner to install a pre-manufactured panel rather than having to, yeah. Then the problem is you don't have to, you don't have to wash it. Right. Yeah, you can wash it all. So how do you contain all the mess when you're trying to wash? Oh, man. Of building can, I can imagine. What would you do?
Would you use like a, you'd basically build a plastic trough tent Yeah. With a bathtub kind of. And collect all the water. And get the water outta here. And so let's, [00:03:00] let's go back to where it all started. How did you choose Masonry? It was just by chance I worked for a company drafting. So I have a machine design and drafting degree.
So I was doing you know, machine parts and then I worked with a gentleman there. And then when I left the company, he left at the same time, but he went to a masonry company and I went to Boeing. Okay. So then I got laid off from Boeing and went to, I called him up and said, I just got laid off. And he says, well, I've got lots of work for you to do.
So, that's how I got into the masonry industry. But it's with the background in, you know, mechanical drafting and, and working with the, and that was back when it was hand drafting, right? Yeah. So I, yeah, drew on the board for 14 years. Okay. And and then I learned how to do AutoCAD at home to see if it'd be worthwhile.
Bringing it into the office. Right. AutoCAD's. Interesting. I've worked with it for over 20 years now. let's see, it was [00:04:00] 96, 98, somewhere in that timeframe is, is my first version of AutoCAD. Yeah, it was 93 for me. Yeah. That's pretty close. I mean, yeah. It was, it was a new technology for us in middle school and high school.
So way we learned. Right. So tell me about how, how did you go from drafting to So, so I was drafting at Flow Systems, which did the high pressured water cutters. Okay. If you've heard of those. They do, yeah. Kinda like the CNC Yep. Cutters, CNC with the, with the water jet. So as was in kind of the beginning of that stage.
So then when I was at Boeing. Was drafting there as well. And then when I went to Barks Shires, we would draw the panels Okay. And coordinate all the embed placements in the buildings and in the panels. Right. So that hopefully they would fit together. But it was intolerances. But the tolerance of a machine part is super tight.
Yeah. 1000th of [00:05:00] an inch. Whereas it worked really well with designing brick panels because we had a half an inch joint to work with. There you go. And then it's just designed like a like a machine part. Mm-hmm. So the fit, that's how I got into Masonry. So it was just by chance? Just by chance. But then it was making panels.
Okay. And then, so that, that's panelized systems. When did you get a t trial in your hand? I never did. Never did. Okay. So, so just like, so I laid all my masonry with, on, on either the board or in a computer. Okay. Okay. That's interesting. So, you went from the panelized systems to working with Johnston Construction. Yep. Tell me about how that transition worked. And, and so I was at Bark Shares for 23 years and then when they retired we decided not to continue the business.
'cause I talked about maybe taking that one over. So then we decided to. Do that. And then Johnston had called and asked if I'd be interested in joining them, and I wanted to be an owner 'cause I had started a company [00:06:00] during that time. So then Johnston's came about and then so I joined forces with them.
As a co-owner. As a co-owner? Yeah. Okay. We worked together for about six months to see if we liked each other. There you go. And, so then that's when I joined, and then Mike started to retire. Okay. From Johnston's. So that's pretty recent then? 2005. 2005. Okay. It's been 20 years ago. A while. It's been a while.
So then now one of the things that we have quite a bit of in the masonry industry is we got the old guard. Going into the sunset and we got some new, new young blood coming up. Yep. How have you handled that transition with your son and bringing him up into the industry? So he's kind of been in the industry since since he was young.
Mm-hmm. So my wife and I, we built our shop that we lived in for 12 years and then we built our house. Okay. All of our, all by ourselves didn't sub it out. So outta masonry, we got some [00:07:00] masonry, but mostly, mostly wood. Yeah, sure. But Hogan and the kids, they grew up working on the house. So Hogan's got a vast knowledge of construction.
And then what hard work, requires Yeah. Rather than just going out and buying something, we were building our mm-hmm. Place to live. And then Hogan started working with us when he was 14. Okay. In the summers. So then he would work in the yard and then pretty soon he was working in the field a little bit, delivering materials when he was a little bit older, when he could drive working in the office.
So he is kind of seeing all aspects from the very, very bottom, all the way through. All the way through to the top. So then he went to school and got his engineering degree. Okay. At UDub. Which one? A civil engineer. Civil engineering. Okay. So then he worked for a civil engineer for a couple years.
Yeah, like two, two or three years. And then working on groundwork stuff. I'm sure I'll interview him later too. All retrofit [00:08:00] type. Okay. Stuff, you know, fixing some of the older buildings and, mm-hmm. So then he called one day and he says, I don't think this is for me, dad, so I'm gonna come to work on January 1st.
All right then, and I said I guess I'll talk to the, the owners and just make sure that's okay. So, so he's worked for us for you don't know, five or six years. And then Yeah, October of 23 him and I bought out Rick Johnston. Okay. Well, Rick Johnson, he's kind of retire and enjoy his retirement.
Yep. So now it's working with my with my son. Nice. Yeah. And, and Hogan's been great to work with on different projects that I've gone out on job sites with him, and it's always great to see that new guard is still well, he is trained and he is kinda like an old, you know? Yeah. And like an old soul because he is, he's just, he's been around it, he's been around it his whole life.
So he's [00:09:00] right. He's not, guess new to construction. He is, he has some management classes at UDub for managing people. Sure. And he had project estimating and things like that I'm sure. Yep. While he was at UDub as well. So, I mean, that all plays right into helping buyout and Yeah. Run the company, right?
Correct. How many people do you typically have? Work for you throughout the year. And what kind of projects do you focus on? We focus on projects that we get the bid on. So, is there a specialty niche that you like to bid on or is it just kind of whatever we bid on?
Pretty much everything that's we don't typically go after any big box Okay. Type work. We try to, you know, we, no job is too small. Right. Some jobs are a little bit too big, but depending on the schedule, we don't like the ones where you just yeah. You don't like the six week schedules where it's [00:10:00] a massive, huge building.
Yeah. And you gotta throw 20 people, 30 people at it, right? Yeah, we, we don't really focus on that. The stuff that's super tall, we don't really have the scaffold for doing the super tall stuff. But we've done several super high end homes. That's got super accurate tolerances and quality. We, we love that type of stuff.
We can help with the design upfront so that we're ordering a lot of stuff cut to size rather than figuring it out on the, on the fly. Yeah. So, save a lot of material coming in. Yeah. And it reduces the lead time on the projects and everything Yep. For your, for your installs, right? Mm-hmm. And we can help design, you know, if they're designing something that doesn't feel right.
Yeah. We can kind of guide 'em, along the way. Yeah. So typically we talk about strength, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats in the masonry industry as well. What are some strengths to masonry that [00:11:00] you, you see that it succeeds at really well? I think the longevity the history. And it just, it just, if you look around, there's buildings that are a hundred years old and they still look really good.
Right. Whereas different types of sightings or, yeah. Materials might not, they may get dated may get dinged. Even if a masonry wall gets dinged a little bit. If it gets dinged enough. It starts to become rustic, so, right. Or if it, if you get a break on one of the bricks, you gotta tear out that one brick and put a on in.
Oh, well, right. Yep. It doesn't require you to replace a whole panel or, or hold Correct. The whole side of the building right there. I had a project over when I was going to physical therapy in Spokane. A car ran into the brick side of the building and it busted through the brick.
Maybe protruded six inches into the building. A whole car hit the building. Right. And in their retrofit of it, instead of doing the flat red brick wall, [00:12:00] they took out the, the panel right under the window and put it in at a 45 degree angle interlocking angle. Oh, that's nice. And it was just one of those nice accents where, hey, we've got the, we've got a claim.
They're gonna pay for the new wall. It's not much more to put in a, a different, same brick, just different pattern. And, and it gives, make it an accent, gives in a nice little accent. And maybe the architect that originally did it was just looking at economics and just wanted to get the building out so we could sell it off.
But yeah, it was just kind of one of those scenarios where even if a whole car runs into a building, you don't have to replace the whole wall, just, just where it's damaged. Right. And we did a house in Tacoma. It got hit by a car on a corner. Okay. And the car was traveling about 80 miles an hour, but it was, but it was a glancing blow.
The car, hit the rocks, hit the house at about it was probably four feet above the ground [00:13:00] and hit right before the entrance glanced off and hit the other side of the entrance. But there was very. Little damage of the framing inside. 'cause the brick was a shock absorber. Right. And the ties took a lot of that load since it was glancing.
Mm-hmm. So we just changed the brick out and, and that was back to, back to new that. Yeah, that's definitely an opportunity for masonry. if we need to repair. What other opportunities do you see for masonry promotion that we need to educate architects, engineers, contractors, building owners, building officials.
I think one of the jobs we have in Tacoma that's coming up it's an auto parts custom high-end car repair. And it had a fire inside Okay. Of a CM UCMU building. And it had a, gypsum sheet rocked ceiling. And it had four, four cars inside fully engulfed in flames.
And they're gonna modify the building. [00:14:00] The CMU, there was no damage to the CMU at all. And there we go. The only modifications they're doing is they're changing the one end of the building. From a glass garage door to infilling that with CMU and then putting the door on the back. Okay. Because they had a break in and then somebody got the fire cars on fire.
So they'll have more security with the door on the inside. Yep. But just, you know, we've got photos of, of the damage and the trusses are not damaged because of the sheet rock lid. Mm-hmm. And the walls are not damaged 'cause they're all CMU. So. They basically have to re sheet rock. We're doing a little bit of fire containment system right there.
Yeah. So that was super impressive. Yeah. if we can share those pictures, that'd be awesome because we we're gonna have a website with the podcast, it's called masonry mix.com and we'll put other promotional efforts on there and, and [00:15:00] kind of tie it in with the Yeah. 'cause a lot of buildings are apartments will have like a firewall.
Yeah, of course. And I've, and I've seen they used to have CMU firewalls and now a lot of times you'll see double walled sheet rock firewalls. Yeah. But just seeing this fire and how violent it was and to not have any damage to the wood trusses was pretty crazy. Pretty eye-opening. Yeah. I think that'd be great to share with people so that they can really understand the whole concept of compartmentalization.
And how passive fire resistance works. Mm-hmm. I think a lot of people don't understand that, or if they do understand it, it's, it's maybe thought as, oh, that's how they used to do it. We have sprinklers now so we don't have to do it that way. Or maybe we don't have to do it that way, but maybe we should.
Right? Yeah. For the. FF for just the yeah. It's just impressive to see that there's just no damage mm-hmm. To [00:16:00] the building. Just, just had to replace the drywall Yep. And clean the walls for sure. And some lights, and clean the walls and Yeah. Some of the little insulation, superfluous or whatever that word is.
Yep. Extra stuff in there. Right, right. The stuff that's meant to melt, meant to burn away. And that's just how it is. Yeah. So what about threats and weaknesses to the industry right now? The biggest threat is the competition of other materials.
Okay. So, you know, not having masonry specified, 'cause there was lots of choices. Mm-hmm. There was a big push for being green friendly. Yep. Sustainability. And then we didn't we didn't market at that time because. Our product is pretty green, we know it, right? Nobody else knows it.
So there's these other products that have certifications that say, oh, we're green friendly. So that's the way it went and we lost a huge market share that way. Yeah. So that's an opportunity for us to, to try and [00:17:00] rekindle that love for resilience. That love for sustainability and longevity. Yep. Of materials.
In your opinion or in your, in your own mind, how is Clay Break or CME block more sustainable than other materials? It's just the durability of it. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't go away. It doesn't melt away, it doesn't rain away, it doesn't rot. With the new mortars, the mortars last way longer than the sand mortars from mm-hmm.
A hundred years ago. it's pretty much bomber proof Yeah. we have these pictures that, that we've done testing on walls where we've shot the walls with 30 out sixes and 38 specials, some different other kind of guns. Right. And, and even when we shoot brick, it'll fall a little bit.
Yep. But the bullet doesn't go through. Right. And we [00:18:00] don't talk about ballistics very much when, when we're talking about schools or public buildings or anything like that, because everybody wants to just hush hush it, right? But there's a, there's an inherent risk of that op that threat happening. And we've done testing that shows that brick and block will stop that threat from entering the building.
Yeah, you might have a small repair to do, but oh darn. Replace a couple bricks 'cause they got some potholes marks in 'em. Or do a concrete patch on A-A-C-M-E block and away you go. Or if it actually looks really bad with the patch, then take out the whole face shell and put a new one in. Right. And away you go.
Right. I think there's a lot to be learned from the resilient aspect of masonry at the high level. How do we go about teaching architects, engineers, contractors, building owners, building officials who are very focused [00:19:00] on this green path only, that the bigger sustainability picture requires both green conscious carbon conscious materials, as well as this long lasting, durable, resilient product like masonry.
I think one of them, one of the answers to my own question is to put out this podcast and kind of talk to those kind of people about it. But how, how do you see the masonry industry picking up the slack on that education? I think I think we were good doing well.
Before COVID. Okay. Because we were able to actually visit some of the design industry. We were getting together with them on different functions, getting architects and contractors together. Mm-hmm. And that was working pretty well, so that it's not kind of that scary, I can't talk to them or Right. But then COVID hit and then it was like, well, nobody can come into my office [00:20:00] anymore.
So, and it's kind of human nature not to wanna talk to. People from the outside Right. Of your community. Right. So, I think it's just getting back into the offices. If we can get in early enough that it can be an impact to whether it's the job they're working on or, or future projects, it's nice to get in early.
So at least it can be helpful with the design. Yeah, I think that's a huge aspect of it is. Is building those relationships with the architects and engineers so that if they have any questions, they can just reach out to us, reach out to the contractors that they know and, and get some information or guidance that otherwise they wouldn't have available to them if they didn't pick up the phone.
Right, right. Not everything's found by Google, right? Nope. We, we still have years and years of, experience in the field. People who have done the engineering side of these buildings, and I think. Sometimes it's [00:21:00] hard to call somebody you don't know. Right? Right. So you, you sometimes pick up the phone because you, you know somebody, and it's a lot easier than just calling a random number and cold calling them and saying, Hey, I have a question about Masonry, and I saw your number on Facebook or Instagram, or whatever.
Right. So I think part of this podcast, the reason why I want to do it, is to build those relationships with the contractors. And the architects and engineers, as well as showing people, Hey, we have this wealth of knowledge with everybody in the industry. How do we, how do we get out there and, and share it?
Well, here it is. Right. I loved hearing about your drafting past it, it really plays into my own history as well. Mm-hmm. Uh, As a computer aided drafting and design graduate from ITT back in oh nine, then went into engineering, which lines up with Hogans. Yep. So it's kind of cool. Uh, Well, and the interesting thing like in at Berkshire is we did, [00:22:00] you know, people knew us because we did a prefabricated brick panel.
Right. And they started that in 1976. so a lot of the jobs that we had, the architects would just call, say we have a panel job, and all they would have is an elevation. A set of elevations and maybe two or three floor plans. And then we would come in and tell 'em where all the loads are gonna be, drop all the panels, all the jointing.
That helped the engineers design the building to pick up the loads that we had. So we were on way ahead time, the time really early. Yeah. Yeah. On everything. So that's, that's kind of the background of, of how. It's operate, it's kinda like a design build operation, right? Yep.
Kind of before the time though. Yeah, way before the time. Yep. Yeah. So that's what our, and that's how I look at it, is, is we're here to basically give them their dream, right? They're, they've got a dream to do right? And we're here to help [00:23:00] accomplish that dream. And then I've always, on every job then we, we draw the masonry part of it.
And then that allows us to have a good layout for our work, but also we can give that information to the general, right. For relocating his rebar, his dowels. Mm-hmm. Just so that if I can make their job a little easier and have it in the right spot, it makes my job easier. By the time we get there, it's, that's called being a team member right there.
Right. Yeah. That's just, I mean, that's common courtesy, but it's not so common anymore. Right, right. I think shop drawings is one of those things that. I didn't realize the impact that it would have on my career early on. Just 'cause you always are handed shop drawings as a new engineer, right? Yeah. The amount of shop drawings that I've reviewed from steel shops to cold form trust shops, CMU shops, concrete shops, it's really amazing how much [00:24:00] effort and time can go into them.
When you want a successful project. Yep. And then that's your last line of defense. As an engineer, you can, you can find things where you miss, it's like this, right? Yeah. I sent some drawings into this and we modified it to fit the hole and Yeah. Then I can recreate that. Yeah. In real life. So, exactly. And, and we were able to adjust how many bricks were up on top versus underneath, and kind of make it look like it fits the area.
And looks aesthetically pleasing. So I know I have a, a great opportunity here as the executive Director of the Masonry Institute of Washington, Oregon and the Northwest Concrete Masonry Association to bring everybody together. how do you see that moving forward? Do you see more collaboration opportunities being the benefit to contractors, producers, architects, engineers, building owners?
I guess the benefit I could see is you just have to come to one place. That's right. Rather than, let's say I [00:25:00] talked to this certain person that's over here, but they only handle part, they only handle a block. And then over here is my brick. I think just a one stop shop is, is is the most beneficial.
Yeah. I think that's probably the biggest thing that I, I'm pushing for in the industry overall is to bring us all together. when you're all succeeding. It's easy to hire an executive director here, here, and here, here. Keep it all separate. Right. Now that we've, we've kind of lost a little bit of our share over the last five, 10 years, really since 2000 I think there's definitely an opportunity to kind of join forces again overall and work together a little bit more to promote the overall industry 'cause.
It needs it, right? Yes, it does. So I know my goal is to get architects, engineers, contractors, building owners, building officials on the podcast. I appreciate you coming on the podcast today and [00:26:00] sharing your insights on your background with the masonry industry. , And I appreciate you coming on today, Judd.
Yeah, you for having me? Yeah. Thank you. Well, that's a wrap on today's episode of In the Mix where we put Masonry in the spotlight, block by block, brick by Brick. A big thanks to our guest, Jed Olafson, for sharing their time and insights with us. If you enjoyed today's episode, do us a favor. Click that follow button, leave a quick review and share it with someone who cares about building smarter and stronger.
You can connect with me, Adam Hutchinson on LinkedIn and find bonus content from today's episode@masonrymix.com. In the mix is produced by Espresso Podcasts and hosted by yours truly, Adam Hutchinson. You can find the podcast wherever podcasts are found. Hosting of the podcast is made possible by the Northwest Masonry Institute. Thanks for listening. And as always, stay curious, stay connected, and keep building strong. See you next week, right here in the mix. [00:27:00]