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After an Easter weekend that saw more than 10,000 people at Sandal Church, Pastor Matt Brown, Justin Pardee and Stephanie Keen slow it down to talk Luke 13. On the docket: Eternal capital punishment, discerning the differences between evil spirits and physical injuries and the importance of work in a relationship with Jesus that’s supposed to be based on faith.
Real faith. Real life. Hosted by Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown of Sandals Church, The Debrief Podcast goes beyond Sunday conversations—diving into the questions, stories, and struggles that shape who we are. Thoughtful. Honest. Unfiltered.
No. No.
Justin Pardee:I'm telling you. It's a giant
Matt Brown:snake. Okay. Okay. That I'm gonna have nightmares. Yeah.
Stephanie Schaefer:I'm never sleeping again.
Justin Pardee:Oh, yeah.
Stephanie Schaefer:That is like a big fat
Justin Pardee:white snake.
Matt Brown:Why didn't you warn me? Okay. For those watching Periscope, we
Justin Pardee:Oh. Oh, man.
Matt Brown:It's a big old anaconda something python that figured out how to unlock doors
Justin Pardee:in this
Matt Brown:person's house. It's like fat and white. All you have to do
Justin Pardee:is type in snake opens door on YouTube and your life will
Stephanie Schaefer:be ruined. Don't do it.
Justin Pardee:Well, hey, everybody and welcome to the Debrief, a q and a podcast from your friends here at Sandals Church. I'm Justin Party. I'll be your skipper on this three hour tour.
Matt Brown:Yes. You do look like the skipper.
Justin Pardee:A little bit. A little bit.
Stephanie Schaefer:I'm Stephanie Key and I guess I'll be your first mate.
Justin Pardee:I don't know how boats work. That would be
Matt Brown:look a little like Gilligan.
Justin Pardee:That would make you Gilligan. And this, of course, is pastor Matt Brown The professor. Was I was here to go I was going with Ginger because That
Matt Brown:so beautiful.
Justin Pardee:Yeah. She was so beautiful. Yeah. We're glad you guys are listening.
Stephanie Schaefer:Yeah. So here at the debrief, we are taking questions from our community groups here at Sandals Church on the chapters we're walking through on the weekend. So if you guys have questions you want to get here on the debrief, let your community group leader know.
Justin Pardee:Hey. So before we get jump into some questions, we got to stop, pause, and celebrate. We have crossed on Easter weekend no less, 105 star reviews. We are now up to 107 reviews on iTunes, all of them five stars. Yes.
Justin Pardee:Okay. So here here's a great one and pastor Mike, you're gonna like this. This one came in from Tammy's mom, your mother-in-law. She says, this is the place to get real answers to real questions about Christianity. Jesus, the bible.
Justin Pardee:It's funny, informative, and real. I highly recommend. Any anything you want to say to your mother-in-law live on the podcast?
Matt Brown:Hi.
Justin Pardee:Yes. Excellent. Okay. This is our next our next review comes from Emil Cabazoca.
Stephanie Schaefer:Well done.
Justin Pardee:That's the best we can do with that one. She says, I'm assuming it's a she because her name is really crazy. Says, I used to say up I know.
Stephanie Schaefer:I resent that.
Justin Pardee:Alright. Sorry. He and or she says, I used to say up too late partying or going out. Now, I'm up too late listening to some really great conversation about God and Jesus. Best podcast ever.
Matt Brown:Yes.
Justin Pardee:Good choices. Continue making those good choices and and then lastly, we've got another five star review coming in from Kendralala nineteen. She says, I love this podcast for so many reasons but mainly because in the times where I'm doing laundry, cleaning up, or making dinner, I can pop this on and learn more about God in those moments. So before we jump into, the questions, I thought it'd be awesome if we just each go around and we suggest some other activities that Kendra La la could listen to the podcast while she's doing. Do you have any ideas of a podcast listening activity?
Justin Pardee:No. Mowing the lawn is one.
Stephanie Schaefer:Oh, mowing
Justin Pardee:the lawn. She likes it during Do you have any other activities? Recommended activities Yeah. Walking, I
Matt Brown:would not recommend anything that involves a blade spinning.
Stephanie Schaefer:Alright. That's that's wise. That's wise. Yeah. I'm gonna go with cooking.
Matt Brown:That's why I'm the professor and
Stephanie Schaefer:you're awesome.
Justin Pardee:I'm gonna go with eating a chimichanga will be mine. And here's here's
Matt Brown:the Can
Stephanie Schaefer:you really focus when you eat a chimichanga though or is it like just a magic moment?
Justin Pardee:I'm definitely in the zone. I'm definitely in the zone. Here's the deal. If you
Matt Brown:You are more focused while eating.
Justin Pardee:Hands down. Here's here's what the deal. We have a couple of our Debrief t shirts left over from our Genius Bar and I'm gonna give one away to anyone, the first person who puts a picture on Instagram using hashtag sandals church of yourself listening to the debrief doing one of these incredible suggested activities and you want a free debrief t shirt.
Matt Brown:Appropriate activities.
Justin Pardee:Yes. Yes.
Matt Brown:We gotta remember our audience.
Justin Pardee:Alright. Are you guys ready to jump into some questions?
Matt Brown:Yes,
Justin Pardee:sir. Okay. Pastor Matt, we got a couple of them coming in from a few weeks ago.
Stephanie Schaefer:Sure. So one question that came in was actually back to the Lord's prayer. A woman wrote it in and said, my husband is a nonbeliever, but has come the last couple weeks to church. He brought up a question about the Lord's Prayer and the translation of lead us not into temptation. His thoughts were God would never lead us into temptation.
Stephanie Schaefer:The devil would, but not God. So why pray for God not to lead us when he would not do that? Is he he's not disagreeing with the prayer, but just the translation. Can you
Matt Brown:explain Well, there's a couple of things. So first of all, you know, Jesus is led into the wilderness to be tempted by the Holy Spirit. So there is an example of that happening to Jesus. But good news is we're not Jesus, and so we don't need to be led into temptation by anything. James says that we are led into temptation by our own desires and our own wants.
Matt Brown:And so I think that, you know, what's happening there is it's just a it's just a different way, an ancient way of saying, you know, let us keep following you and not be led into. And so I don't think it means specifically that we don't want to be led by God into temptation. It's just a structural language thing from, you know, the Aramaic to the Greek to English. And so the idea there is, God, you continue to lead us and he won't lead us into temptation. Right.
Matt Brown:Because we do that ourselves. And so I think he's absolutely right. It's just it's just sometimes it's it's all it's impossible to say something from Greek in English exactly the same way. And so the idea there is though, that God would be leading us. You know, we begin with our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done.
Matt Brown:So we're starting with his will. Mhmm. And what's his will? That we would not be led into temptation, but that we would be delivered. So the Gospel of Luke doesn't have this, but Matthew's rendition of the Lord's Prayer, that we would be delivered from the evil one.
Matt Brown:And so there's a tug of war that's taking place in our hearts between good and evil. And when we pray, we wanna be led not into temptation, but to be delivered from the evil one. And so I think that's the best way to understand that text. And it's always interesting that non believers can pick up on things oftentimes much more clearly than we can as believers. And so Oh, yeah.
Matt Brown:I think your husband's right on there, and you know, hopefully he'll keep coming back to church. And, you know, and I would just say this, you know, I can't say everything about every passage every week. It's impossible. I mean, it would be so utterly boring. And there are churches that try to do that, that try to literally make, you know, church a seminary class where you're looking at four or five words a week, and it just becomes mundane, and they, you know, they try to tell you everything about the passage, and because of that, they lose all of the people.
Matt Brown:And so that's why the debrief is here. We're trying to help you guys go a little bit deeper in your understanding of scripture. And if you wanna go deeper than the weekend messages, this is a great time to do that, so that you can learn more about what the text says. So thanks for that question. I think that's right on.
Matt Brown:And your non believing husband is smart.
Justin Pardee:I love it. So I was driving golf cart shuttles around main campus this weekend with the crazy parking, and one of the ladies who jumped on the shuttle said, hey, can you ask pastor Matt on the debrief? Though, you've talked a little bit the last couple of episodes about differing levels of judgment Yes. That we might experience in hell. And she had just really never heard of that before
Matt Brown:Right.
Justin Pardee:And was wondering what is the scriptural biblical evidence for that kind of thinking?
Matt Brown:Right. Well, so there there's a bunch of problems in modern Christianity. And one of the things is, you know, so much so so often our our theology is a reaction to something. And so one let's start where this whole idea of that all heaven is the same and all hell is the same. It comes from this feeling that all sin is the same.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. And so why do we do that? We we do that to try to overemphasize, you know, I've I've seen, you know, somebody on their soapbox down at Huntington Beach preaching. You know, If you've ever told a sin, you're just as guilty, know, as if you murdered somebody. And, you know, I understand what they're trying to do is they're trying to make a case that every person's a sinner.
Matt Brown:But comparing someone who's told a lie to someone who's killed somebody is stupid. It's absolutely, it makes no sense, you know, theologically, it makes no sense, you know, I mean, in any kind of reasonable way. And that's why when you look at the Old Testament, there's differentiating punishments for different kinds of sin. So for example, if you get in a fight with somebody, and it it just turns in and you accidentally kill them, right, during the fight, a moment of rage, that's different than wait, you know, lying in wait, planning it out, and killing somebody. Right.
Matt Brown:And so this whole idea of first degree murder, second degree murder, you know, manslaughter, that's not a western idea. That's a biblical idea. Mhmm. And so the idea is that, look, there there are differences even in the way we kill somebody. Yeah.
Matt Brown:In the end, someone's dead, but there's a difference between, you know, getting in a fight, killing someone in self defense, versus waiting for somebody in a parking lot and strangling them. And any Christian that says that those two things are the same thing is stupid. Mhmm. And that's part of the reason why the world doesn't listen to us is because we say stupid things. So this is what I would say, all sin is evil.
Matt Brown:It's all evil. It's all bad. It's like cancer. Right? I mean, if left alone and left untreated will kill you.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. But Cancers, you know, differentiate in the way that they kill you and the speed with which they kill you. So we need to think about sin in the same way. And so, you know, there are differences in sins, and that's not to say that, you know, I'm better than you. It's just to say that there there are categorical differences, and that is clear in Luke chapter 12, where Jesus is talking about how he will treat his servants when he returns.
Matt Brown:And there's three categories of servants that he will deal with. The first servant who he deals with the most harshly, is the one who intentionally wounded the sheep. Now he's gonna Luke's gonna tell us in the book of Acts that there will become wolves from amongst us. And so this is one of the reasons that so many people are turned off by church. They point to examples of, well, this pastor's all about money, or this pastor, you know, is, you know, telling nobody to have sex, but he's having sex with all these people, you know, not his wife, or, you know, or there was that case a couple years ago in Colorado where the pastor was totally against gay marriage, and then we found out, you know, he was having sex with Yeah.
Matt Brown:Potentially with his massage therapist. That was a man. And so they they point out these hypocrisies, and it's like, look, the Bible says that Jesus will deal with those people, the harshest. So the harshest level of hell is not for the worst sinner, the harshest level of hell is for those who claim to be the best saint, and yet abused God's family, God's sheep. And so he talks about this.
Matt Brown:And so listen to my words very carefully, because some of you are gonna have a hard time with this, but this is what Jesus says. If the master returns, and he finds one of his so called servants abusing the sheep, manipulating the sheep, wounding the sheep, Jesus says he will tear that person to pieces. Rip rip him apart. Right? Mhmm.
Matt Brown:And throw him into hell with the unbelievers. That's where that person is going. It's the harshest level of punishment. The next person he talks about is the servant who knew what he was supposed to do, but did not do it. What does Jesus do to that person?
Matt Brown:In this story, that person is severely beaten. There's punishment. Now that's hard for us. Right? Because we can't even, you know, conceptualize spanking our children.
Matt Brown:Well, the ancient world, beatings were a regular part of discipline. So in our world, right, we get all upset about that. And I'm not making a case for spanking or not spanking I'm your just saying in the ancient world, it was not considered immoral to physically beat, you know, a servant. And so Jesus is saying, look, this servant who didn't do what they were supposed to do is going to receive a beating, a severe beating. That's the word, a severe beating.
Matt Brown:Then there's the other servant, right, who didn't really know what to do, but kinda knew it was wrong, but didn't have the information. And Jesus says he will receive a lighter beating. And so here's the understanding that, you know, not everyone's experience in hell will be identical. Some people are going to be torn to pieces. Some people are going to be beaten severely.
Matt Brown:Some people are going to have a light punishment. And what does Jesus say? To whom much is given, much will be required. Mhmm. And so, judgment will be based upon your knowledge, upon your understanding, upon your upbringing.
Matt Brown:I mean, Christ is the fair judge, and and that's who he is. And so this idea that all hell is the same is absolutely ridiculous. What I would say is this, as hell will be very personal to the sins that you've committed. And so what that means is, you know, Adolf Hitler is going to have a very, very different experience in hell. And, you know, we need to be reasonable people.
Matt Brown:I'm gonna go way back, I think it's to the late eighties, there was this serial killer, I think his last name was Bundy. Oh, okay. And it was interesting. So, Bundy, right before he was sentenced to death, made this profession of faith, got saved. And was forgiven and wanted to be, you know, and so I think it was Oh, what's his name?
Matt Brown:The psychologist from Colorado. Oh, James Dobson. James Doctor James Dobson went and did an interview with him, and talking about, oh, this guy's forgiven. And I'm like, this guy see, this guy is manipulating this, and all the Christians wanted to talk about how great this was. And to me, and we'll talk about this later, if the guy was truly saved, he would he would say, I deserve the death penalty.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. Absolutely. Right? Just like the thief on the cross who gets saved, what does he say? I deserve this.
Matt Brown:Yeah. I'm I'm here hanging on this cross for a reason. I believe that if, you know, Bundy was Ted. Right? Yep.
Matt Brown:Ted Bundy, who truly was repented, he would say, I deserved to die. But he didn't didn't do that. And we were all we're all caught up in that. And I and I think that that guy is a manipulative psychotic person Mhmm. And and and deserves a very very personalized hell because of the way in which he killed people.
Matt Brown:It was terrible. He went around, right, acting like he was wounded. Suckered women into trying to help him put his groceries into vans, and then he he brutalized them, murdered them, raped them, and killed them. Okay? He needs to have a very very unique experience.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:And and I know that people are gonna be upset by that, but John says that there are sins that lead unto death, and we should not pray for those people. There are some people, and that's why we this this passage is chapter 13 is so difficult to understand and to navigate, but we need to understand there are severe consequences for severe sins. Everyone's a sinner. We're all a sinner. We all fall short of the glory of God.
Matt Brown:That's what I talked about in the Easter message. You know, the word sin means we miss the mark of moral perfection. But some people aren't shooting for the target. Some people are shooting other people. Right.
Matt Brown:And that's very very different. And we need to deal with this, like, especially as we deal with the threat of radical Islam. These people in the name of God going into supermarkets, what happened in Pakistan this weekend Mhmm. People are gathered together to worship the risen Christ, and some person attaches a backpack to their body with ball bearings in it and explosives, walks into a crowded area with women, children, right, and blows himself to smithereens destroying these people. That is evil.
Matt Brown:The most abhorrent, awful evil. Right? He is hurting God's people in the name of God. Mhmm. That person will be torn to pieces on the day of judgment.
Matt Brown:Why? Because what they're doing is a horrific, awful, evil. And that's the servant that Jesus is talking about. The one who does these things in his name. There's gonna be some there's gonna be some ugly, ugly judgment there for these people, you know, and we need we need to be aware of that.
Matt Brown:And as Christians, I think we need to we need to not not glorify, but we need to not be all upset that God's going to punish terribly people. Because if God doesn't uniquely punish those people, then God is not love. He's not. You know, if somebody does something horrifically horrible to my family, it is not love to not punish them. It's not.
Matt Brown:So there needs to be there needs to be justice for crimes committed. And so, you know, and that's why we can talk about, you know, we can get into social issues like the death penalty, but that's why, you know, I think that as Christians that lose their minds because, you know, the government shouldn't kill people. They're not reading scripture. They're they're they're just not reading what the Bible says. And so, you know, the government has a responsibility to exact punishment on in severe horrific cases, and to do so makes them unjust.
Matt Brown:And so this idea that love doesn't punish doesn't understand love. It just doesn't. And so so I know that's that's a huge question or or a huge struggle for for those listening. But listen, not everyone's experience in hell will be the same, and not everyone's experience in heaven will be the same. So in heaven, you know, on the day of judgment, when God tests our faithfulness, we will go through fire, and the fire will test and see what what is pure in our lives.
Matt Brown:The Bible says that God will hand off rewards, and he will bless those who have been faithful. And, you know, we're all going to go to heaven, but we're going to have different experiences in heaven. And so this idea of utopia and it's all equal, that is not a biblical concept. It is not. And so just like people in hell will be judged, and right, everyone will say it is righteous, the same thing will happen when God hands out rewards.
Matt Brown:You know, it will be righteous. I mean, who am I to be jealous of what the apostle Paul has given on the day of judgment? Because I mean, you know, that whole list he gives of all the things that happened to his life, you know, beaten multiple times, left for dead, shipwrecked, you know, tortured, maimed, lost all of his possessions, right? So his heaven experiences to be the same of mine. I live in an air conditioned house, and I preach the gospel in a church where I have freedom of religion, right?
Matt Brown:I mean, come on. I'm not going to receive the same blessings as the apostle Paul, and I shouldn't. And I should be okay with that. And on that day, I will rejoice, you know, in what Paul receives. Because if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be here, and neither would you.
Matt Brown:None of us will experience heaven if it would not have been for the torture that Paul went through. Mhmm. So.
Justin Pardee:Craziness. And chapter 13 is which is where we're gonna shift over to now, starts off just as intense with this really interesting story. It says, Pilate had murdered some people from Galilee as they were offering sacrifices at the temple. Do you think those Galileans were worse sinners than all the other people from Galilee? Jesus asked.
Justin Pardee:Is that why they suffered? Not at all. And you will perish too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God. I tell you again that unless you repent, you will perish too. So, this is pretty intense beginning to the chapter.
Justin Pardee:What's Jesus talking about here?
Matt Brown:Yeah. So, you know, the idea in the ancient world was when something bad happened to you. Disease, famine, earthquake, and you died in that, that it was somehow always God's judgment. So it was something that you deserve. So the ancient world was was really all about karma.
Matt Brown:So this idea of karma nowadays, so which is an Indian philosophy. And it's the idea that what comes around goes around. And so the Bible just speaks directly against that. Now sometimes, right, there's karma like concept. So what you sow, you shall reap.
Matt Brown:So what that means is, whatever you're planting in your life, eventually it will come up come about. But it doesn't mean that just because you always plant good things that bad things won't happen. Christians die of cancer, Christians die in car accidents, missionaries. I just sat down and met with a missionary team that was in Afghanistan, prayed, raised money, you know, went to Afghanistan, and one of their team members was killed on the front door of her steps because she was sharing her faith. She was not protected.
Matt Brown:She died. She was murdered, you know. And so the reality is, was she murdered because she was doing something wrong? No. She was murdered because she was doing something right.
Matt Brown:And so Jesus is speaking that look look look. Those people, this horrific thing didn't happen to them because they're terrible sinners. And by the way, it's a horrific thing. We don't know a lot about Pilate, but one of the things that we know is he was slightly crazy. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:So what he did was is he murdered these Galileans, and he took their blood and mixed it with the blood of the sacrifices in the temple. And, you know, he's like, you guys wanna sacrifice for God? Fine. Then you can be the sacrifice. And it was just this horrific moment and clash between, you know, Roman power and Jewish religion.
Matt Brown:And they were like, oh, well, they must have done something bad because God would never allow righteous people to be slaughtered in Jerusalem in the temple. Really? Because what did Jesus say in last week's chapter? That from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah Yeah. They're murdered in the temple.
Matt Brown:And by the way, where is Jesus gonna be murdered?
Justin Pardee:That must be.
Matt Brown:In the temple. And so what Jesus is saying is, and this is what's so important is, all of us have to repent. These Galileans have to repent. Those who died in the accident, we we don't know about this accident anywhere in history except in the gospel of Luke. This Tower Of Siloam collapsed.
Matt Brown:Maybe it was an earthquake, maybe it was built not correctly. Maybe it was old, we don't know, but it fell on a bunch of people and killed them. He says, look, everyone has to repent of your sins because we're all gonna die. Mhmm. And you don't know when it's gonna happen.
Matt Brown:You don't know how it's gonna happen, but we're all going to die. So you had better repent. And that's that's the opening of Luke 13.
Justin Pardee:Right.
Stephanie Schaefer:So then I have a question kind of moving down into Luke from Brandon in Jeff's group. So it's from Luke thirteen sixty nine. I'll read that. Then Jesus told this story. A man planted a fig tree in his garden and came again and again to see if there was any fruit on it, but he was always disappointed.
Stephanie Schaefer:Finally, he said to his gardener, I've waited three years and there hasn't been a single fig. Cut it down. It's just taking up space in the garden. The gardener answered, sir, give it one more chance. Leave it another year, and I'll give it special attention and plenty of fertilizer.
Stephanie Schaefer:If we get figs next year, fine. If not, then you can cut it down. Brandon says, I'm a little confused by this parable. Is God the man, Jesus the gardener, and the follower of the fig tree? Can you explain who
Matt Brown:Yeah. I think he's overthinking it. So
Justin Pardee:Okay.
Matt Brown:You know, the Jesus' parables usually have one point. So that's the first thing. So one of the theological dangers when we look at parables is which when we try to extract multiple points from the parable. So here's here's the point of this parable. Jesus isn't talking about fig trees at all.
Matt Brown:He's talking about Israel. He's talking about an unrepentant nation. So the fig tree was planted three years ago. Jesus' ministry totaled three years. So for three years, he's been preaching to an unrepentant nation of Israel.
Matt Brown:And what he's saying is, the time is up. I've waited long enough, and I'm going to bring judgment upon you. Rip the tree out. And so it's a symbol of Israel. Rip it out, and judgment is gonna come.
Matt Brown:But the person says, no no no no. Let's try to provide more fertilizer. Let's try to let's try to do whatever we can, more water, and give it time. And so, you know, what Jesus says here is okay. He he says then let me read it specifically.
Matt Brown:He says in verse is it nine? Then if it should not bear fruit next year, well and good. But if not, he says, you can cut it down. And so what Jesus is saying here is, look, you only have so much time. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:You only have there's only a certain season of grace. Grace will not last forever. God's invitation to forgiveness is not an eternal open ended invitation. God will allow grace for a certain period of time, and then he will bring judgment. And Jesus is saying to Israel, you guys are only going to receive so much grace, but God's patience is about to run out.
Matt Brown:Now, Luke's audience, right, they're going to be reading this knowing what happened to Jerusalem. So about
Justin Pardee:Got it.
Matt Brown:Thirty years after the death and burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Roman armies sweep in
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:And destroy the temple like it has never been destroyed. Even when the Babylonians conquered Israel, you know, in the last great destruction of the temple, they still had some respect and some reverence for God, and so it wasn't a complete destruction. Rome had been fed up with the Jewish nation, and literally made it a point to destroy everyone. Josephus records that the Sea Of Galilee was like a sea of blood.
Justin Pardee:Josephus was like a
Matt Brown:old Yeah. So Josephus was one of the head generals of the Jewish army of the northern armies of the Galilean armies. And so when Rome came in, Josephus was like, okay, this isn't gonna work. And so what he did was they all were gonna, you know, kill themselves like they do on Masada, the famous place in Masada. They all decide to kill themselves.
Matt Brown:It's the the southern most fortress in Israel. Okay. And you can go there when we take a trip to Israel, we'll go up to the top of Masada, you can see where the last remnants of the army of Israel fell to the Romans. It's pretty cool because nowadays when you graduate into the Roman army, or excuse me, into the Israeli army, they take you to Masada. The graduation is at Masada, and they say never again.
Justin Pardee:Oh, wow.
Matt Brown:It's pretty cool. But so they had that same pact in the northern armies, and and Josephus was the leader of the northern armies. And so he said that he would be the last one to kill himself. So when everybody killed themselves, he changed his mind. He's a Benedict Arnold, and he switched sides, and he actually helped the Romans conquer his fellow Jews.
Matt Brown:You know, and so we can we can, you know, ridicule him for his unfaithfulness and his craftiness. But the reality is he's the only other external source about Jesus Christ, you know, that we have. He talks about Jesus.
Justin Pardee:Yeah. So he became like a pretty prolific historian.
Matt Brown:He became the most famous Jewish historian. And so he writes to us about all the events of of Judaism post pre and post annihilation in in the fall.
Justin Pardee:Got
Matt Brown:it. But So the the the the Roman Greco audience reading this would have known that Jesus said, look, I'm gonna give you a little bit more time, there's gonna be one more season, and then the axe is coming to the tree. And so what happens? Israel is annihilated because ultimately of the rejection of Jesus Christ. And so that's what he's talking about.
Matt Brown:God is speaking to your life, he is giving you grace, he is, you know, trying to woo you with his holy spirit. But if you continue to be stubborn, if you continue to be stiff necked, and you do not repent, sooner or later, the axe will fall.
Stephanie Schaefer:Eddie also has a question kind of on this passage and more on the whole concept of bearing fruit. He asked what defines bearing fruit? Is it sharing the gospel and winning people for Christ, or is it personal growth?
Matt Brown:Yeah. So it's both in this instance. So usually bearing fruit means sharing sharing the gospel and seeing people be saved. But here, the instance, the bearing of fruit is people being saved. Themselves.
Matt Brown:Themselves. They're responding to God. Yeah. So in this instance, it's personal fruit. The nation of Israel must bear fruit.
Matt Brown:So they must receive the Messiah. They must recognize Jesus Christ for who he is. But ultimately, the majority of Jewish people rejected him. And what's so tragic about that, in the book of Zechariah, it talks about God negotiating once again with Jerusalem and setting things right. And there's a king named named Zerubbabel, who who God makes things right with, and there's a high priest, a great high priest, and his name is Yeshua, which is actually the Hebrew name for Jesus.
Matt Brown:Right. And so this great high priest, his name is Yeshua, and Yeshua literally makes a new covenant. And God says, I will make things right with Israel. Listen to this, in a day. In one day, he will make everything right.
Matt Brown:And he will take the foul excrement filled clothes of Yeshua, and he will take them off. The sin that's on Yeshua, he will take them off, and he will put a new robe on Yeshua, and he is the great high priest. And it's interesting. Right? Here's the high priest, and his name is Yeshua.
Matt Brown:It's exactly the same name, and they don't get it. And ultimately, they reject God's mercy and God's grace. And it's just it's tragic. It's absolutely tragic. So the first fruit that you need to be concerned about is your own.
Matt Brown:Are you saved? Mhmm. You know, have you repented of your sins and placed your faith and trust in Jesus Christ? And if you haven't, you need to deal with your fruit before you are concerned with the fruit of others.
Justin Pardee:Okay. So Eddie wrote in with another question that I thought was so good. I didn't even notice this when I was reading Luke chapter 13 in verses six through nine oh, no. Excuse me. In verses 11 through 13, on the Sabbath day, as Jesus was teaching in a synagogue, he saw a woman who'd been crippled by an evil spirit.
Justin Pardee:She'd been bent double for eighteen years and was unable to stand up straight. When Jesus saw her, he called her over and said, dear woman, you are healed of your sickness. Then he touched her and instantly she could stand straight. How? She praised God.
Justin Pardee:So Eddie's question was, how did Jesus see that it was a spirit afflicting this woman and then and not just like a physical issue that she was dealing with?
Matt Brown:Yeah. So let's take a step back before we talk about Jesus. Let's talk about Luke. So Luke is a doctor. And this is a story that is not found in Matthew, it's not found in Mark, and it's not in John.
Matt Brown:So it's only found here. So it's something unique to the Lucan Lucan message and the Lucan gospel. And so there's something he's trying to communicate. And I think for Luke as a doctor, as a physician, that what he's trying to communicate to us is that ultimately the greatest ailment that people face is not our physical disabilities. And those are often the things that we pray for and ask to be healed of.
Matt Brown:But there's a spiritual separation of God, and in some instances, there's a demonic possession. There's something, you know, tragic. There's some tragic spiritual affliction. So how did Jesus know the difference? Because he's Christ.
Matt Brown:I mean, right? He he can accurately diagnose a human being's problem, be it emotional, be it spiritual, or be it physical instantaneously. I mean, he's the son of God. Mhmm. So as Christians, we don't have those same powers and the same abilities, and so we have to pray through things.
Matt Brown:And so what we have to do is, you know, we what I try to do is I try to flesh out all three. Is this an emotional issue that needs to be dealt with? Is this a spiritual issue that needs to be prayed over? You know, is this a physical issue that needs to be treated? And so usually what I found is it's it's some of all three.
Matt Brown:Rarely is it just spiritual, rarely is it just emotional, and rarely is it just physical. And so what we need to do is, you know, as Christians, we need to seek physical treatment. You know, hospitals are a great place for that. We need to find emotional treatment. You can go to a counselor, you can, you know, a Christian counselor preferred, because I think it's important that they understand your faith and can, you know, push you in that direction.
Matt Brown:But there's also spiritual healing that needs to take place. At our church, we call it deep healing. It's this idea of speaking deeply into people's lives, and, you know, seeing if there's something demonic happening in this person's life. And so before we freak everybody out, you know, like I said a couple weeks ago, Christians cannot be demonically possessed, but we can be demonically afflicted. And so this woman is not a Christian, but Jesus says she is a child of Abraham.
Matt Brown:And what I love about this miracle is she didn't ask for healing. Jesus is simply motivated by compassion.
Justin Pardee:Oh, yeah. I hadn't noticed that.
Matt Brown:She didn't ask, she didn't seek. She just writes she's just an old lady going about her business. And Jesus sees her, and there's something in her that touches his heart, touches his spirit, and he reaches out and he heals her. And what's so sad is okay. So let's go back to the fig tree.
Matt Brown:Jesus has been preaching, you know, for three years, and there's something in Judaism that's gone so horribly wrong that they're more concerned about the legality of their religion than they are about helping this poor woman. And so, you know, Micah six eight, what does the Lord require of thee? To love justice, mercy, and to walk humbly with our God. And so whenever we lose our value for people, we've lost our value for God. Those two things must be married at all times.
Matt Brown:Because Can you
Justin Pardee:say that again? Whenever we lose our value for people?
Matt Brown:For people, we've lost our value for God. And so this is why Jesus says, right? He says, the axe is coming. Because you guys I mean, they rebuke him. They're they're mad at Jesus Mhmm.
Matt Brown:For healing this woman. And Jesus is like, you hypocrites. Which one of you today didn't untie your donkey, right, untie your ass and lead it out for water, but I can't heal this daughter of Abraham? Mhmm. I I can't do this?
Matt Brown:And so that's what's so sad is, you know, so many of these churches are so wrapped up in theology that they've forgotten that the whole purpose of theology is to draw people to Jesus. And it's just tragic. And I see this all the time, you know, with pastors who judge us at Sandals Church because, you know, we're not 100% right in every area in our theology. It's like, look, no one's 100% right. We're all saved by grace.
Matt Brown:It doesn't mean that we get to get stupid. But what I care about what I care about most isn't preaching to the choir on Sundays, it's reaching those broken and lost people. Mhmm. That's why I love that the woman, you know, her her lost husband's coming to church and he has questions. Great.
Matt Brown:That's great. You know, we can both learn about Jesus together. And and just, you know, look in your own heart as a religious person. What do I care more about being theologically right or loving people? And I don't think those two things have to be in conflict.
Matt Brown:I think that we can be theologically right. And so what that means is when I confront somebody in sin, my heart breaks for them and I love them. And I'm not looking down on them from my pious, you know, high horse, but I'm bro I'm a broken sinner with them, trying to lead them back and get them to see that ultimately, it's not about me being right and them being wrong. It's about them getting their their life right with Jesus, because sin will destroy them. It will destroy them in in every facet and in every way.
Stephanie Schaefer:That's just what I love about what we get to do here on the debrief, because I think the more we dive deeply into what God's saying in his word, the more we realize how much we're called to love. So I just love that. I've been thinking through that as we've been talking about that. So then moving into verses 18 to 21 here, Jesus says, the kingdom of God is like a tiny mustard seed that a man planted in a garden. It grows and becomes a tree, and the birds make nests in its branches.
Stephanie Schaefer:It is like the yeast a woman used in making bread. Even though she put only a little yeast in there or in three measures of flour, it permeated every part of the of the dough. What exactly is the kingdom of God, and why does Jesus talk about it like this?
Matt Brown:Yeah. So the kingdom of God is the rule, reign, and authority of God. And so as human beings, you know, the unrepentant sinner does not live under the rule, reign, and authority of God. So why do terrible things happen? Why is everything awful?
Matt Brown:You know, because right now, we are living under the rule, reign, and authority of the devil and of selfishness. And so what Jesus is saying is, he's saying, I'm in I'm invading that kingdom. I'm setting these captives free. You know, you think about the holocaust and, you know, what the Jews went through in some of the camps, you know, Auschwitz and some of the camps. The moment the Americans came through, they were liberated.
Matt Brown:Right? The kingdom of America had come. It was there. They were liberated. They were free.
Matt Brown:And so that's what Jesus is saying. He's saying, I've come to set captives free. I've come to make people's relationship with God right. I've come to bring peace in your relationship with God. There's not gonna be peace on earth yet until he returns.
Matt Brown:You know, the great day of the Lord that the Bible speaks of, actually when he will come from the Eastern Gate. The Bible says that the Mount Of Olives, which is an amazing place. I hope that you can come with me when we go to Israel. I think we're gonna go in 2018, the summer of two thousand eighteen. But the Mount Of Olives, the Bible says, will be split in half.
Matt Brown:Ain't that cool? And Jesus Christ will come through the Eastern Gate. And when we go there, you'll see that the Muslims have walled it up. Because Oh, really? Yeah.
Matt Brown:They've done two things. So number one, they they they have a cemetery right there on the Eastern Wall. Oh, right. Because the holy one can't can't walk on dead people. Right?
Matt Brown:And which Jesus has no problem with because he touches dead people all the time. Mhmm. So Mhmm. And isn't tarnished. And then they've walled at the Eastern Gate, so he can't get through.
Matt Brown:I think he'll get through it.
Justin Pardee:He'll have no problem.
Matt Brown:So yeah, after he cracks the mount of olives in half, I don't think that But You know, some masonries cracks. Oh, there's a milk. Sorry keep the risen Christ from from coming back again. And so so, okay. So the kingdom of God is rule, reign, and authority of God.
Matt Brown:So why does he talk about the mustard seed? And you just have to understand how prophetic this is. So we talked about this a little bit this weekend. You know, for us, Jesus is the most, you know, worldwide known human being to ever live. But here he is, he's a no name from a no name town in the middle of nowhere.
Matt Brown:So Jerusalem is considered the outskirts of of of the Roman Empire. Right? It's the worst place possible. And Jesus is from the worst town in the worst place possible, Nazareth. So they find out he's from Nazareth, they say, can anything good come from there?
Matt Brown:You know, it's like, you know, being from like Blythe, California, you know, only thing that's there is heat. I mean, there's just, you know, there's just not there's nothing there. Of course, you're from Blythe, we love you, and thank you for listening to the debrief, but Yeah.
Justin Pardee:Have fun with your creepy little gas station.
Matt Brown:Yeah. It is creepy. So so, you know, what he's saying here, and you have to understand how prophetic this is, is what I'm doing is starting off so small. One person who can't even change, you know, the the thoughts of a kangaroo court in the middle of the night Mhmm. Me as this little mustard seed, I'm gonna permeate through all of human creation, and I'm gonna reach every nation, every people.
Matt Brown:I believe it's Zechariah says that the gospel will go forth, and at least 10 people from every tribe, tongue, and nation will be saved, which is interesting because that's how many people it takes to have synagogue. So every tribe, every tongue, every nation, every people group will have at least 10 people represented at the table of Christ in the great banquet when he when he returns. And so what he's saying is, my gospel's gonna go forth everywhere. So it starts off as a little mustard seed, and a mustard seed's not, you know, the smallest of all seeds, but it's a tiny seed, and it grows into this huge plant. A mustard tree can grow 10 to 12 feet.
Matt Brown:And so, you know, and and so this idea that birds are gonna gonna, you know, nestle in it to find shade, and people are gonna come and have comfort. And so just like yeast, a little yeast permeates its way through the whole dough. You know, think of sourdough bread here, and it's just gonna rise, it's gonna permeate everything, it's gonna change and affect everything. And so Jesus I mean, think about this. He's about ready to die, but what he's saying is, my life, my kingdom is going to change the whole world.
Matt Brown:That statement is ridiculous. It's it's insane what he's saying, except for the fact that it happened. I mean, it happened. That's why we're we're we're debriefing about this two thousand years later, about this, you know, hillbilly from Galilee who never left his own area. You know, had a brief stint in Egypt as a kid, but for the most part, you know, didn't leave a 50 mile radius.
Matt Brown:That's more than most of us drive on, you know, on one way to work.
Justin Pardee:Right.
Matt Brown:And yet, this guy is the most significant human being to ever walk the face of the earth. Pretty incredible.
Justin Pardee:It's Zechariah eight twenty three for those of you guys listening and wondering on the other end. Good job there. Okay. So in verses 24, really through the end is where Jesus like feels like he's kind of getting into the zone here, with his whole preaching thing and he's getting warmed up. And, verse 24, somebody asked Jesus, Lord, will only a few be saved?
Justin Pardee:And Jesus replied, work hard to enter the narrow door to God's kingdom for many will try and enter but will fail. So why is Jesus saying to tell people to work hard when Christianity is supposed to be all about faith?
Matt Brown:Right. And so I hear a lot of Christians say that. And so this is why it's so important that we study the book of Luke and the book of Acts together. Because it's not just all about faith. Here's what the gospel is treated as in the in the book of Luke and the book of Acts.
Matt Brown:It's twofold. So the gospel of Luke starts off with the with John the Baptist, the one who comes in the way of Elijah. By the way, the last book of the Bible, the book of Malachi, ends with these words. Elijah will return, paving the way for the Lord. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:So literally, that those are the last couple verses in the Old Testament. Where does Luke start off? With the coming of Elijah. And he's not literally Elijah, but he comes in the spirit of Elijah. And what is Elijah's message?
Matt Brown:Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. And so when we read the gospel, and we run into Luke, the apostle Peter preaches, you know, the messenger of of following Jesus, you know, to those who believe after Pentecost. So the Holy Spirit falls, he preaches, you guys killed the Messiah, you know, you killed God, that's kind of some bad news. Like, oh, no. What do we do?
Matt Brown:He says, repent and believe. Mhmm. So true faith begins with repentance. True faith begins with repentance, and that's the problem. And so that's what Jesus is saying is these Jews will not enter the kingdom of God, not because they don't believe in God, but because they refuse to repent.
Matt Brown:They refuse to humble themselves of their self righteousness, and because of that, they're going to miss out on the great banquet. They're they're gonna miss out, and we're we're I I don't know how much more you're gonna ask me all about this passage, but they're gonna miss out on the banquet of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And they and here's what's so sad is they think they're in. They are convinced simply because of their nationality that they're in. And what Jesus is saying is, you're not gonna make it.
Matt Brown:And and let me just say this, you know, what I think most of us do as Christians here is we're gonna reflect and we're gonna we're gonna ask the same question, who then can be saved? And what we're gonna do is we're not gonna personalize this, and we're gonna push this on others. And what we need to do in this passage is not ask this question of others, is we need to ask it of ourselves, and this is why. The hardest person to save, the hardest person to bring to repentance is the one who thinks they're saved. Pharisees still exist today.
Matt Brown:It breaks my heart. I have friends and family members who call themselves Christians, but they are not repentant, faithful followers of Jesus Christ. They're not. And they're going to miss out on the kingdom of God. And so Jesus is not saying that we have to earn our salvation.
Matt Brown:That's not what he's saying. What he's saying is the the door is narrow because it requires humility, repentance. One must humble themselves. And we see this all throughout scripture. So for Luke, as he preaches the gospel, it requires repentance and faith.
Matt Brown:Repentance and faith. And that's what's so sad, you know, in the church today is we think, oh, you just gotta say you believe. And so Jesus is gonna go on to that. He's gonna say, some of you claim to know me. He's like, but you know, it's not happening.
Matt Brown:You don't know me. You haven't repented. You haven't humbled yourself. You haven't been real with yourself. That's the way we see it as analysts.
Matt Brown:Yeah. Haven't been real, and therefore you're not healed, and you're gonna miss out. And so, you know, that's why Jesus is saying this. And and again, he's preaching to his Jewish audience, to people who think they're good. They don't think they have to do anything.
Matt Brown:They're so self righteous, they look down on Jesus. I mean, about that. That's that's the disease of self righteousness. I can become so self righteous that I look down on Jesus when he heals a woman in church. Ain't that sad?
Matt Brown:Terribly. It's totally totally sad. I mean, this happened to me when I was a youth pastor. I I had 300 kids come to this rally, and you know, it would The night got wild, right? They were rough kids, they came, and I was in this traditional Baptist church, and I almost got fired that weekend, because one of the kids broke a window in the church, and some kids left pizza in one of the rooms on Sunday morning.
Matt Brown:What is the church about? Are we about not breaking windows and not leaving pizza? Right. Because for the these Baptist deacons, the church building was sacred. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:More sacred than kids who needed to be saved. And I think they missed it. I think and I'm not saying mean, I get frustrated here when things get broken and things like, but why do we have this building? Why do we have these things? It's not to erect buildings, it's to make room for people.
Matt Brown:So the building is not nearly as important as the person who comes in to meet God. Totally. And so that's what's important here. And so I would just say, you know, to all of you out there who, you know, think you're a Christian, this is what I would say, is if you're worried about your salvation, you probably are saved. If you're not, I'm a little concerned.
Matt Brown:The Bible says work out your salvation with fear and trembling. We gotta work it out. That's the Apostle Paul. The same guy who said we're saved by grace. Not of ourselves.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. That same guy who said that we're saved only by grace said, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. And so, you That's know Philippians. Right? Yeah.
Matt Brown:Philippians two two?
Stephanie Schaefer:Two twelve.
Matt Brown:Two twelve. Two twelve. Okay. Forgot a number. Two twelve.
Justin Pardee:So let's keep going. Verses 25 through 27 goes like this. Jesus is continuing to talk and he says when the He's telling the story, when the master of the house has locked the door, it will be too late. You will stand outside knocking and pleading, Lord, open the door for us. But he will reply, I don't know you or where you come from.
Justin Pardee:Then you will say, but we ate and drank with you and taught in our streets. And he will reply, I tell you, I don't know you or where you come from. Get away from me all you who do evil. So here's a question, when is it too late for somebody to get right with God?
Matt Brown:There's a season of grace. So let's go back to the the fig tree. There's a season of grace and God has extended grace. And unfortunately, people have interpreted God as love, as God will always extend grace. And and that is not the gospel.
Matt Brown:The gospel is there is a season of grace. And if you continually harden your heart, resist the Holy Spirit, and reject Jesus Christ, there's going to come a time when it's too late. And there's gonna be a lot of people on judgment day that figure out in that moment that they were never right with God. And what Jesus is saying is, then it's too late. Then it's too late.
Matt Brown:You know, for example, for these people that are rejecting Jesus, you know, their unwillingness to repent of their sins and place their faith and trust in Jesus Christ. And so I I think we need to be careful not to assume that it's too late only when a person dies. Certainly, it's always too late when a person dies if they have continually rejected Jesus Christ. Mhmm. And by rejecting Jesus Christ, I need to have a caveat here.
Matt Brown:It doesn't just mean that they believe in him. Because I have people that tell me that all the time. Oh, yeah. I believe in him. But they've not repented of their sins.
Matt Brown:They do not understand the seriousness of their spiritual condition. They minimize their sin. And that that that to me is the is the first evidence of an unrepentant heart, whenever I'm trying to make excuses for myself. So the apostle Paul says in Timothy, right, this is a trustworthy saying, Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of which I am the worst of them all. Yeah.
Matt Brown:Why would he say that? Because he understands the gospel. And because he understands the gospel, he understands himself. Mhmm. And and people that, you know, I mean, there are people that would say, well, Matt Brown's the best person I know.
Matt Brown:Well, may be true. But the reality is I'm still a horrific sinner, and I battle selfishness every day. And so the person who is unwilling to recognize their their their the state of their soul does not know Jesus. And so there are people who, you know, Jesus says in Revelations three, behold, I stand on the door and knock. He's knocking on the door.
Matt Brown:We can't assume that he will continue to knock for your entire lifetime. I think that that there are moments in people's lives where the Holy Spirit is present, where the gospel is powerful, and it's their moment. Mhmm. And they may never have that moment again. That's why I'm so every every every sermon that people hear at Sandals Church, the worship every week, every single week, whether it's me preaching or somebody else, I want it to be powerful, I want it to be excellent.
Matt Brown:Because we don't know if those people ever get a chance again to hear the gospel. We don't know. Mhmm. And so I try to treat every circumstance like it's people's last, because it may be. Right.
Matt Brown:It may be. All God promises is that he's gonna speak powerfully to you once. I mean, Jesus said, I preached to you for three years. I'm gonna I'm gonna take the axe to the tree. Oh, no.
Matt Brown:No. Let's give it one more year. He's like, fine. One more year. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:That's Jesus. One more year. He doesn't say until they die. He says, I'm gonna give it one more year. And then what he's gonna do, he's gonna move on, and he's gonna go somewhere else.
Matt Brown:And the same is true at Sandals Church. If we stop bearing fruit, the holy spirit's going somewhere else. He's not gonna stay here, because he's got souls to save, and he's gotta lead people to Jesus. And so I think he said I think you you got to this part where he said they said, but we but we drank in your presence, and we taught in your streets. And I think that, you know, that's an illusion there, or an illustration there even of people who are preachers, and pastors, and priests.
Matt Brown:Just because somebody's a pastor doesn't mean that they're a repentant follower of Christ. People could become religious for all kinds of reasons. Oftentimes, it's power. Religion is the easiest way in the world to manipulate people.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:It is. I am constantly reminded by the Holy Spirit not to use my physical gifts. Right? I I have woo. I can lead people.
Matt Brown:I can use my personality. That's not the gifts I need to use to lead people to Christ. And so I have to say no to myself and my personal gifts, so that people can say yes to Jesus. Because I see manipulative people in power all the time. I think we see this in politics.
Matt Brown:People use their persona. People use their their their giftedness to woo people, and to I think mislead people. And so there's gonna be a lot of people on Judgment Day that are like, look, was a pastor. I was a priest. And and Jesus gonna say, I didn't know you.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. Because the only way we can come to truly know God is when we come to know ourselves and we repent of our sins. I see that I'm a sinner, and I see that Jesus is the only way to save me. And that's repent and believe. Repent and believe.
Matt Brown:And so Luke will add, repent, believe, and be baptized. So what is baptism? Baptism is the outward sign of the inner repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. It's saying, I I need to die to self to be raised to life with Christ. And that's what baptism is.
Matt Brown:And then if you're, you know you know, that's why, again, those of you who haven't been baptized, you need to deeply deeply consider that. Don't be lazy in your faith. You need to publicly declare your faith in Christ. I am repenting of my sins, and I'm placing my faith in Jesus Christ. So
Justin Pardee:One of the things, this last weekend we had, I think it was just over 260 people get baptized Oh, on Easter weekend, which was super awesome. If you're listening and you're part of Sandals Church and you want to get baptized, if you go to sandalschurch.com/baptism, sandalschurch.com/baptism, you can learn a little bit more about what baptism is and why we do it here at Sandals Church. And you can sign up right there to get baptized and we will reach out to you and help make that happen.
Matt Brown:Yeah. And let me just say this real quick and we can talk about this when we get in the of Acts. But at Sandals Church, we believe that baptism follows repentance, and so that's why we don't baptize children. So some churches baptize children, we can get into that in the book of Acts. Yeah.
Matt Brown:Why why the church has kinda developed that theology.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:And and I and there are good reasons behind it for a season and for a time. But, you know, we we believe that every child of God must choose to be a child of God, and you can't make that choice for your for your kids. They have to choose it for themselves. So God is not interested in grandchildren. He only wants children.
Justin Pardee:Yeah. One of my best friends, his oldest son got baptized this weekend.
Matt Brown:Oh, cool.
Justin Pardee:You know, so cool for him to say, this was his decision, his choice, and he asked us if he could do it. Yeah. Awesome.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm. That's so cool. So I wanna keep walking through the end of chapter 13 here. Jesus continues on when he's talking about it being too late, and he says, in that place, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves cast out. And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at the table in the kingdom of God.
Stephanie Schaefer:And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last. Mhmm. Can you especially like hit on that last part there? What exactly does that mean?
Matt Brown:Yeah. So you know chapter 13 is coming to an end, and once again, if you're not a Christian, you need to listen to these words very very carefully. And if you are a Christian, I think these words should humble you deeply. But what he's saying is there's only so much time, and there's going to come a day of judgment. He says, on the day, on the great day of Lord, he says, there's going to be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matt Brown:And this is Jesus' favorite phrase to describe people who are cast into hell. Mhmm. There's going to be a great deal of weeping. And so we talked a little bit about this on Good Friday, but the worst thing that happened to Jesus was not the crucifixion.
Justin Pardee:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:As horrific as it was, as terrible as it was, the worst part of the crucifixion was the moment Jesus was separated from God the Father. The tearing apart of what had always been together. And he says, Father, why have you forsaken me? Mhmm. That's the deepest pain that Jesus will ever feel as he ascends into hell to preach the gospel to those who who who are lost.
Matt Brown:And by hell, it's not the permanent place of hell, but it's the prison of those awaiting hell. Right. And it's just this weeping. There's just going to be this incredible moment of clarity, of this this moment of transparency. Jesus says that and this is why our vision is to be real at Townsend Church, because on the day of judgment, we're all getting real about everything.
Matt Brown:Everything we've ever done, thought, you know, or said is going to be revealed. And there's just going to be a weeping. There's going to be deep deep regret. But it's too late, because there's a season of grace, and then there's the day of judgment. And, you know, there's a difference between being feeling sorry for what you've done and repenting from what you've done.
Matt Brown:On the day of judgment, those people will not be repentant. They'll just be sorry. Sorry they got caught. And there's gonna be a lot of weeping, and there's gonna be a lot of anguish. And then it says there's gonna be a gnashing of teeth.
Matt Brown:We don't know exactly how to interpret this, but it could be anger. They're angry at God for his judgment. Probably there will be Jews who are angry because they thought they were the chosen children of Israel, and they're angry. And they don't get to sit down at the table of, know, Abraham. And this is, you know, it's so sad, you know.
Matt Brown:So many people wanna party when they're young, and and you're just gonna miss out on the greatest party the world has ever seen. Jesus describes it as a banquet, this great feast, this incredible, you know, the greatest party the world has ever seen. And we're gonna sit down, and we're gonna be family. Family, man. It's gonna be so cool.
Matt Brown:But he says, you know, you're gonna be cast out. You know, you're gonna weep, and you're gonna gnash your teeth. He says, when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets of the kingdom of God, but you yourselves are cast out. And, you know, this is David's prayer of repentance. Cast me not away from your spirit, oh God, but renew the right spirit with me.
Matt Brown:So this idea of being thrown away from God's presence. So what is hell? Hell is the bottomless pit where we fall forever further away from God every single day for all eternity. That is the worst thing that can ever happen to somebody. And so he says, you're gonna see yourselves.
Matt Brown:But he says, but people will come from the East and the West, from the North and the South, to recline at the table in the kingdom of God. And he says, behold, I tell you that some who are last will be first. And what he's saying is, you know, the Jews assumed that they were first. He says, no no no, you're gonna be last. And those who thought they were last, those who didn't think they had a chance, the Gentiles who thought they were excluded from the kingdom of God, they're going to be brought in.
Matt Brown:And that's why we're here today. We're Gentiles. I'm not Jewish. Mhmm. And we've been brought to the table of Abraham, to the table of Isaac, to the table of Jacob, and we get to recline with God's family, and and those who are faithful.
Matt Brown:Why? Because I've repented of my sins, and I've placed my faith in Jesus Christ. Those two things have to happen in my life for me to be saved. And so and again, these people would have said they have faith in God, but they didn't repent of their sins, and they rejected Jesus. Mhmm.
Justin Pardee:So Jesus closes kind of his response here in verse 34. He's responding to the Pharisees who are saying, get out of here, Herod's going to kill you. And, he's really grieving over them and he says, Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers. How often I've wanted to gather your children together as a hand protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me. And now, look, your house is abandoned and you will never see me again until you say blessings on the one who comes in the name of the Lord.
Justin Pardee:Man, as we've talked about the parable of the fig tree, it almost kinda sounds like another way of telling that story like, you know, I've I've wanted you to bear fruit.
Matt Brown:Yeah. Well, it shows a couple things. Number one, it shows God's heart and desire even for unrepentant evil people. God's like, I want I want to make the relationship right with you. But, you know, it's just like if we have friendships, you can't write a relationship if only one person wants to write it.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:The only way a relationship can be reconciled is when both parties agree to what reconciliation looks like. And in our in our case with God, he's not the one who sinned. He has not committed the crime. He has not been the unfaithful spouse. He has been nothing but faithful.
Matt Brown:He has done nothing but blessed us. And the Bible says we have hoard ourselves out to other gods. What is interesting about this is this is one of the instances where Pharisees are not evil. They're trying to protect
Justin Pardee:him.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. They're actually concerned for Jesus. And and I love what Jesus says there. Says, who cares what Herod the fox says? And by the way, that's an insult.
Matt Brown:He's like, he's not gonna kill me. I'm gonna die in Jerusalem. Why? Because that's where all prophets die. That's the place.
Matt Brown:Isn't that sad? The one place that's meant to declare God's glory is the one place where time after time after time, God's prophets are murdered and slain and killed.
Justin Pardee:Right.
Matt Brown:The place that's supposed to honor God is the place that kills those who honor God. And it's just absolutely tragic, and that's where he has to die. Because that's where God's servants and God's prophets die. But it's just it's just absolutely amazing that here he is, he's gonna go there, and they're gonna kill him. And even in that, right?
Matt Brown:I mean, one of the last words on the cross, father forgive them for they know not what they do. He's still the hen, wanting to bring them into his arms. He still cares for them as they spit at him, as they accuse him, as they crucify him. He still wants, you know, to to love them. And he says, you're not gonna see me again.
Matt Brown:I'm going to be gone. And until it's too late. So
Justin Pardee:Do you have any closing thoughts for us on Luke chapter 13? I mean, because it was Easter weekend, you shared a little bit differently than you have normally the last couple weekends. Do you have any just other takeaway thoughts we should Yeah.
Matt Brown:Think about? Just my my prayer for our church is that they would understand the vision of being real is not a side note to Christianity, but it is it's the whole note. It's what everything is it's what everything's about. If you are not real, you are never going you're never gonna get right with Jesus. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:And I just think that's so absolutely important. I mean, Jesus uses that word hypocrite over and over and over again. And I'm just gonna say this, you know, we talk about not all sins the same. The worst sin is hypocrisy. It's the worst sin, claiming to be something you're not.
Matt Brown:And it's what drives Right? Jesus has nothing but grace for a woman caught in the act of adultery. Nothing but grace. Nothing but love and forgiveness. And yet, when he runs into the religious self righteous hypocrites who pretend to be clean in the outside, but inside are full of self indulgence.
Matt Brown:Why are they religious? For themselves. Mhmm. For what they get out of it. Because it makes themselves feel good about themselves.
Matt Brown:That for Jesus is the worst sin. He does not want us to be hypocrites, and at Sandals Church, we have to take off the mask, we have to quit playing games, and we have to be real with ourselves, and get real with our sin. And in that moment and again, I shared this, you know, on Sunday and and Saturday and and Thursday when I preached. It's not about making you feel bad, it's teaching you to learn to feel love. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:Because all of us in our relationships, we're constantly trying to earn someone's love, to earn someone's favor. We do it with our kids, with our parents, with our spouses, with our boyfriends, girlfriends. We do it at work, and we're on this hamster wheel trying to earn something that cannot be earned. Love is something that is given. And God wants to give us his love, but the only way that we can receive it is through repentance and faith in Christ.
Matt Brown:And so I just would encourage you guys, you know, if there's any area of hypocrisy in your life, get rid of it. Quit being fake, and start being real, and invite the gospel into area every area of your life, because you don't have to fake it anymore.
Justin Pardee:Totally.
Matt Brown:You know, Jesus knew you couldn't be perfect. No matter how hard you try, no matter how hard you work, ultimately, we all fall short of the glory of God. And that's why Jesus is the perfect high priest, the one who intercedes on our behalf before God every single day. And so we can come to him and confess our sins, and he's faithful and just, first John one nine, to cleanse us of all our wickedness. And we all have it.
Matt Brown:And for those who don't think we do, it means we haven't we haven't been to the basement and seen what's really in our hearts, and we we need to do that. And again, I'm not calling you an axe murderer, but I'm certainly not calling you a saint. So Yep. We are saints because of the grace of God and the blood of Jesus Christ that covers our sins, not because of who we are. So just again, try as best you can to wrestle through that have I repented?
Matt Brown:Again, it doesn't mean you're perfect, but but are you truly sorry for the sins that you commit? And do you want to change? So the word repent is metaneo in the Greek, which means to change one's thinking an entire life. So, you know, we we've gotta change the way we are, so that we can become something new. And and right, we could just go back to the last, you know, the kingdom of God question.
Matt Brown:The kingdom of God is not something just in the future, but it's to be something that's here and now. Mhmm. And so that's why Paul says, we are citizens of heaven. We're citizens of the kingdom of God. Don't act like a citizen of Rome.
Matt Brown:Why? Because they act like a bunch of crazy weird freaks. Right? Don't act like that. And what what is America doing now?
Matt Brown:It's all about sex. It's all about right? God would never give you sexual desires that he didn't want you to act on. Well, read the Bible. Because he says he doesn't want you to act on any of those.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. Don't act like a kingdom of Rome. Don't act like an American. Act like a follower of Jesus. Yeah.
Matt Brown:And that's what we're called to do. And so Jesus is the standard by which we will be judged. And that's why every single human being, even mother Teresa, has to repent of her sins and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.
Stephanie Schaefer:Great. Thank you so much, Pastor Matt. And thank you guys so much for sending in questions. Your questions are really what are driving these conversations that we get to have every week. And so please keep sending those in.
Stephanie Schaefer:We're loving them so much.
Justin Pardee:Thank you so much think this was one of my favorite Yeah. Episodes so far too. Thanks, guys.
Stephanie Schaefer:I think so.
Justin Pardee:Cool. Well, as always, we wanna close with your thoughts on an inspirational quote. Are you ready for this one?
Matt Brown:I'm never ready for these.
Justin Pardee:Okay, Stephanie.
Stephanie Schaefer:Alright. You have to be odd to be number one.
Matt Brown:Okay. I get what they're saying numerically.
Stephanie Schaefer:Yes. See, it's it's tricky because there's like numbers, but then
Matt Brown:Where do you guys find this? And and and perhaps Beautiful place assign called you guys more work because clearly there's too much free time.
Stephanie Schaefer:This is our work.
Justin Pardee:This yeah. Exactly. This this happens late in the wee hours of the evening when
Matt Brown:we go You have to be odd to be number one.
Stephanie Schaefer:Yeah. I'd actually never heard this before. This is new.
Justin Pardee:Exactly.
Matt Brown:I guess I like it better than the quote from Britney Spears last weekend.
Stephanie Schaefer:That hurts.
Matt Brown:That one hurt. So
Justin Pardee:You you just drew a line in the sand and Stephanie and I are sitting across it.
Matt Brown:Please don't show you need to warn me before you show me stuff like that.
Justin Pardee:I literally
Stephanie Schaefer:Well, I started as he started to freak out, I realized, I don't think this is just gonna be like
Matt Brown:a cute puppy Oh, you
Stephanie Schaefer:gotta do door. But I'm gonna lean in and watch it.
Justin Pardee:My feet were off the ground, dude. I can't that's the I don't even like Harry Potter hate snake.
Matt Brown:Okay. That's why everyone should have a wild rooster in their house to warn you.
Justin Pardee:When there's a
Stephanie Schaefer:Do roosters warn
Justin Pardee:you about snake? Detection.
Stephanie Schaefer:Roosters detection roosters.
Matt Brown:Are much tougher than you think.