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Are you someone who cares about people? Do you seek information to support people you care about who have families? Do you care about people affected by addiction, substance use disorders, or work in the field of family support or peer recovery support? Spend about twenty minutes each month with the President and CEO of Archways Recovery Community Organization and Family Resource Centers who shares hope, strength and stories from the field and practice of Peer Recovery Support Services and Family Support & Strengthening.
Narrator 00:02
Welcome to Archways' Threads, a show focusing on the threads of family and recovery support services that help make up the tapestry of life in recovery. Join us as we share stories from peers and participants in the field and practice of peer recovery support and family support and strengthening. And now your host, Archways' CEO, Michelle Lennon.
Michelle Lennon 00:25
Hello and welcome back to Archways' Threads. We are here today finishing up our conversation with Marina from one of our Family Threads families. And I hope that you enjoy the rest of our discussion. Thank you.
Michelle Lennon 00:41
Have you, have you spent any time, like with your coach, thinking about preventing a reoccurrence of use? Like you've mentioned, you know, keeping your environment safe, keeping your communication with your partner safe. You know.
Marina 00:56
Boundaries.
Michelle Lennon 00:57
Boundaries, yeah.
Marina 00:57
Boundaries. A lot of people, so what I've noticed now, when you start doing really well, people's true colors come out. And what I mean by that is, you know, the people who never really had your best interest at heart, they'll, they will try their hardest to kind of derail you. They will, they will make the knife plunge even further.
Michelle Lennon 01:22
My husband, in recovery, saying nobody ever would give you drugs.
Marina 01:27
Yeah.
Michelle Lennon 01:27
Until you're fighting from your life in recovery.
Marina 01:30
Yeah.
Michelle Lennon 01:31
Then everybody wants to share with you.
Marina 01:33
That's why, that's why it's so important to even if you're not somebody that feels confident in using your voice. Because this is something I've had to learn, because I used to kind of fly below the radar, is that your voice is what matters. Your voice is what is going to keep you in recovery. Because when you set those boundaries and you're firm, you're going to get bad logic. People are going to say some really nasty things to you. People are going to try to manipulate you, guilt you, and you still gotta stand your ground, because when you get sober, the first time ever, you're thinking straight, and your emotions are in line, and you're, you're finally, you know the word, you're finally in alignment, and so doing things that are mean to you is going to feel scary and it's going to feel paralyzing, but the more that you strengthen that muscle, the easier it becomes.
Michelle Lennon 02:31
Yeah. So you have support for some of it, right?
Marina 02:35
For some of it, yeah. I know, I make sure that I speak to a therapist weekly, because even though the past is the past, you know, there are still things, you know, things are new to you. And you're trying to use your voice, and you're trying to re establish agency, and you're trying to, like, allow yourself to feel there are things that are going to creep up, that are going haunt you still, and your demons are still going to show their ugly face, and you know, it's all about having planned to make sure that doesn't derail you.
Michelle Lennon 03:08
The awareness of.
Marina 03:10
The awareness of anyone be like, all right, can't do that.
Michelle Lennon 03:12
Yeah. Do you recognize danger zones?
Marina 03:13
I do.
Michelle Lennon 03:13
Yeah.
Marina 03:19
It's especially since I became a mom, I've become ultrasensitive to the danger zone, danger zones, because for me, it doesn't take much to derail me, unfortunately, and I would feel a lot of guilt and shame around that, because I'm like, come on, like you have everything right now. But you know, something that a therapist said to me a long time ago is the way you speak to yourself determines whether it's a lapse or relapse. It's all about how you talk to yourself and the love that you give yourself and the empathy that you give yourself. That didn't really apply until I became a mom, but it was super important.
Michelle Lennon 04:05
So we talked like how resilient you guys have been because you were experiencing homelessness, you were both struggling with addiction, and you went from there to entering treatment, to working with a family support worker and a recovery coach to establishing housing to having your baby, who's like, doing fantastic and, yeah, and kind of establishing a life for yourself in a place that you love. I mean, hearing you talking about your feelings of like, caught my New Hampshire, and what you've been talking about. What kind of concrete needs did you run into that were like, impossible to kind of take care of in the beginning or or even now as you kind of continue on your, on your, on your path here?
Marina 04:47
Well, I think was the needs, especially when I was pregnant with my son, and the fact that we were living out of our jeep at the time, I, my doctor immediately labeled that as a high risk pregnancy. Um, because it's the dead of winter, we're at a bar. We were in Concord, park and rides and bus stations just to use a bathroom and brush our teeth. And, you know, sometimes I would look, I would scroll through social media, which I have actually stopped going on social media because comparison is a thief of joy, and it does, and it has influenced how I show up in the world, and honestly, now that I have my little family, that's all that really matters. I don't care about showing people that I hardly know anymore what's going on in my life, but I would look and I'll be like, damn, like I wish I had a bed, lounging, especially in third trimester, because getting in the back seats really hard for me, so there's a little bit of like sadness that went along with that. But we were, through Archways', we were able to reach out to like, My Health Services, or, I forget their name, but they they put us up in a hotel up until we got housing. So that was a huge relief. So, I mean, I think regardless of how little money you have or the conditions that you are living in, there's always, there's always ways to get your needs met. It may not be the most effective. It may mean that you know, you have to trudge out in like a foot of snow to a park and ride to the bathroom just to use it or to wash up. But just because, um, living conditions are tough, doesn't mean that you have to abandon yourself.
Michelle Lennon 06:53
Well, that's almost definition of resilience, right? It's like whatever comes your way, you kind of bounce back. I mean, get up again, but it gets, it gets almost hopeless. I think for some people.
Marina 07:04
It's exhausting. And I mean, I'd be lying if I said I didn't lose hope during that time. But when there's something greater than you, giving up, for me is not an option.
Michelle Lennon 07:18
Yeah, especially now.
Marina 07:20
Yeah, no. Like, I think Colton saved my life, honestly. Now that sounds cliche and cheesy, but I know I've always wanted a family. I always knew I wanted to be a mom, and now that I am, it's like I, there's no way that I'm destroying that.
Michelle Lennon 07:47
We often, we often see, like early childhood trauma perpetuating cycles of poverty and violence, and like you've kind of made the interruption. And I think in our conversation early, I can't remember if it was you or your boyfriend, but one of you had said, like, we went further than we ever would have because of the resources that Archways' had connected to us.
Marina 08:11
Yeah. I mean, I've always had this strong desire, even when I was a kid. You know, I remember yelling down the hallway to my adoptive mom being like, I'm gonna be a better mom than you were, and it wasn't to hurt her, but it's me kind of saying, like, alright, there's something worth sticking around for. And I remember holding my son for the first time. I'm like, generational curses end with me. You're not gonna experience any of what I went through. I promise you that.
Michelle Lennon 08:43
So you were adopted?
Marina 08:46
Yeah.
Michelle Lennon 08:46
Yeah?
Marina 08:48
My real life parents were addicts. My adoptive family, my adoptive dad was okay, my adoptive mom was tumultuous.
Michelle Lennon 09:00
Yeah. I grew up in a family that prized fostering. I have adopted siblings. I'm closest to my sister, probably, who I have no blood relation to whatsoever. So I am. I was like, Oh, you too. You're in.
Marina 09:15
That's, that's something that, you know, I've had to kind of heal from as well. Because, you know, I, I know that blood isn't always family, but finally, having my own kid, that's biologically related to me heals so much, you know, because I knew growing up that I didn't fit into the family that I went to. I know that I was way different from them, and now I think a combination of not fitting in and feeling like I belonged and not being heard and seeing that contributed to my drinking. Because no matter how well I did, it never seemed to be enough. So, you know, I before drinking, I fell into anorexia, because I was overdoing. I was trying to be the perfect daughter, and now I was fighting to diet at ninty six pounds. And then when that option runs out, I'll stop.
Michelle Lennon 10:17
And you mentioned earlier about getting to know his pain, but it sounds like you also got to deal with a lot of your own.
Marina 10:25
Yeah. I mean, the nice thing about going through recovery with the person you love so that you got to understand each other better.
Michelle Lennon 10:33
Yeah.
Marina 10:34
And when you start opening all the old wounds and the demons, you start to realize that there's a lot of commonalities between us.
Michelle Lennon 10:42
Yeah.
Marina 10:43
And that fosters a lot of compassion, and a lot of love, and a lot of empathy for each other.
Michelle Lennon 10:48
Yeah. I think something that's special too, is like you both are determined to be better.
Marina 10:55
Yeah.
Michelle Lennon 10:55
You know, to get better, to to improve, to grow, you know? And that, that growth mindset is not something that everybody comes to the table with and like, when we think of the the assessments and that the, you know, like the kind of screenings and stuff that go along with Family Threads, like, you know, I think about how some of those strengths really show up, you know, and sometimes it's almost like surprising to the people that do those things that, wow, I've got all of this going for me that I didn't even see.
Marina 11:28
Yeah.
Michelle Lennon 11:28
And, you know, like, like, even just the way you talk is like, wow, you know? You can hear the resilience. You can hear, like, the growth and hope for the future. You know?
Marina 11:29
I think it's kind of like an oxymoron in a way, because you know, ultimately, your recovery is for you, and that's got to be the first priority to you. But I don't think that means that you have to not acknowledge that your partner is a driving force, or your kids are a driving force.
Michelle Lennon 12:02
Of course not because it because, honestly, I think, I think one of the growth areas for the recovery movement in general is that we have been about consequence based goal setting. He had mentioned it, you got to go to this meeting, you have to, you have to meet these requirements and all that. But it wasn't the thing that supported your recovery. For you, it was this pregnancy. It was this value of wanting to be a good mom. It was all of these other values that tie into to that. So then you get away from the consequences of checking the boxes to know I am going to be a person in recovery, because I am going to be the most amazing parent that I can be. And when we tie any goal to like identity like that, and it becomes so part of who you are, you have better success.
Marina 12:52
Yeah, exactly.
Michelle Lennon 12:53
You know?
Marina 12:53
And you know, I think that's why environment's so important. Because in a lot of those environments, like when you go to the meetings, there's a lot of gossip, and a lot of, you know, talking behind people's back. And to me, that's not recovery.
Michelle Lennon 13:06
Yeah, it does depend on the meeting. Cause there are some that are, when you did, I know that, like a group that meets and they do a book study, everything is very serious. You know?
Marina 13:15
That's, that's what I.
Michelle Lennon 13:19
Didn't find.
Marina 13:20
That's what I like about those kind of meetings, the serious ones, the ones where, you know, they're determined to help people. And I think what put me off to AA and Daniel was [undecipherable] , because those meetings weren't serious, and those the sober houses were filled with drama and going behind people's back, and that just, like, really frustrated me, because it's like, you come out of detox and a 30 day program only to land yourself in a sober house where you're pinned up against one another. Like, that's, that's just a recipe for relapse.
Michelle Lennon 13:57
Yeah, it's, it's interesting, because we do see, like people often don't realize in early recovery that they're inviting drama into their lives by engaging in some of those behaviors. And.
Marina 14:09
Yeah.
Michelle Lennon 14:10
Usually two years out is when people start coming to awareness about that. But I do think when you're, when you're with a recovery coach, or, you know, with somebody else that is, you know, fighting hard to, to not only sustain recovery, but address all of these other areas of life that also support recovery. You know? You tend to kind of back out of the drama quicker, you know?
Marina 14:32
Yeah, and like, since getting sober, and even when I was in detox, I've never been the type to kind of feed into that, because I've been there. It's exhausting. It's not worth my time, my energy. And so I, even when we were at Sobriety house, we just basically stayed quiet. We focused on what we needed to do. We're like, okay, so our time is almost up, okay. And that means we have to find the next, but quitting was never an option. It couldn't be. It wouldn't be. And I think, I think a lot as a parent, like Colton didn't ask to be brought into this world and everything is so moving. It's his first time living. It's our first time living, too. And so, you know, if I can say at the end of each day that I showed up and I do the best that I can. Now, I'm okay with that.
Michelle Lennon 15:19
It's a good day.
Marina 15:24
Like it means that my son gets to go to bed with a full belly and a warm place to sleep. I did my best.
Michelle Lennon 15:34
Yeah, well, you're doing amazing. You know, I think about, you know what we talk about, protective factors, parental resilience. I mean, you guys embody that, right? Knowledge of childhood development, like you guys have gone out of your way to learn how to be good parents, right? You know, you've worked with a family support specialist to learn about, you know, childhood development and what to expect, and you're doing all of the right things that you know, people who haven't had struggles sometimes don't, do, you know?
Marina 16:06
I mean, It does take a certain kind of mindset, and I think that, so I don't like to toot my horn. I don't like being the center of attention, but I think it does take a certain kind of person to be always, to come out of detox and to come out of rehab, with accomplish as much as you have, because not everybody has our resilience. It's not everybody has our way of thinking.
Michelle Lennon 16:35
The same thing about resilience, though the skills can be taught.
Marina 16:37
Which is great.
Michelle Lennon 16:38
You know?
Marina 16:39
And I think working with a specialist like that, you know, it re establishes a resilience is still there. I think they give you, they give you hope that, you know, yeah, shits hard right now, but it doesn't mean that it's going to break you. It doesn't mean that it's going to prevent you from going forward, and that's what you need, especially when you're so new to recovery. Especially when the world is, because when you get sober, the whole world changes.
Michelle Lennon 17:07
Yeah.
Marina 17:07
Yeah. Reality.
Michelle Lennon 17:08
Everything is new.
Marina 17:09
Everything is new. Everything is so much more intense, because you're feeling for once, and you're experiencing life without surviving, like that's beyond overwhelming. For sure.
Michelle Lennon 17:22
Yeah. Well, you know who to call when you get overwhelmed, right? I mean, that's the good thing. Like, you know, I think about the Family Threads program, it's not like we discharge you from the program and say, see you later.
Marina 17:34
Yeah.
Michelle Lennon 17:35
You know?
Marina 17:35
The fact you guys check in, you send the text, like how are you doing? That's awesome. I mean, I mean, I may not respond right away because I'm like, the throes of.
Michelle Lennon 17:43
Parenting?
Marina 17:44
Parenting, getting ready for school, but like, I always do my best to respond. And like, I know that if I need help with anything, that you guys will do your best again. I don't think Tanya will be able to get that situated but she did, and you know that's, that's another wave of hope for me, because, you know, there are going to be barriers that come up, and you always have one or two choices, keep going forward or give up And I've never been to give up. So I was like, All right, you gotta be persistent. You gotta keep trucking on, you gotta keep doing it. And sometimes I can't do it for myself. I'm like, alright, you can't do for yourself today. Do it for Star. Do it for Colton. And it's okay if you can't do it for yourself, but the fact that you have people that want you to keep moving forward.
Michelle Lennon 17:44
Well, thanks to sitting down with me today.
Michelle Lennon 18:30
I, you know, if you were talking to somebody that was just starting out in recovery and they found themselves pregnant or, you know, parenting a little one, you know what, what would be the what would you tell them about Family Threads?
Marina 18:30
Yeah.
Marina 18:56
Don't be afraid to reach out for help.
Michelle Lennon 18:59
Yeah.
Marina 19:00
Honestly, like, I know that there's this mentality that you got to do it alone. Now you got to figure it out on your own. And you know, you're the one that got yourself into the situation, so it's your job to figure out, you know, I just, I would say, also, just give yourself a chance, because so much of recovery is learning how to love yourself, how to be there for yourself. And one of the ways that you can prove that you love yourself is to reach out to people who you know have your back, like don't deprive yourself help just because you're scared or because you're worried that you couldn't catch up, you just have to reach out to the right people.
Michelle Lennon 19:46
I think that's the key, right? Is that you can reach out and not get the right people and then be afraid to keep trying.
Marina 19:53
Yeah. And so look, once you know people that you can rely on, don't ask for anything in return. That's when you continue to make the right choices. And when a hurdle comes up, you're like, "all right, Tanya, hey, help."
Michelle Lennon 20:09
Help.
Marina 20:10
You know?
Michelle Lennon 20:11
And we all went into barriers, you know, I know. I have my people that I call. I get stuff in life, and you know when I think too, when you have to leave your social networks behind you know, and some people do, you know. Some people don't. You know, it just depends.
Marina 20:25
That's a beauty of adulthood too, is that you literally get to create your own little village of people. It doesn't have to be a lot of people.
Michelle Lennon 20:32
No.
Marina 20:32
You don't need to invite the whole world. Just a few good people that you know will help.
Michelle Lennon 20:36
Anything else you want to say about Family Threads, the program, having a family support or a recovery coach behind you?
Marina 20:44
Whether you guys see it or not, you guys are changing the course of recovery. And I'm so, I'm I'm a skeptic, and there's a lot of cynicism within me, but you guys have changed that significantly.
Michelle Lennon 21:00
So much you want to join us. So, becoming a social worker.
Marina 21:06
Yeah, I mean, change the world too, even if it's not, like I don't, I don't expect to make a massive impact on life before I go. But if it means that there's a little dent with the work that I've done, and that's more than enough.
Michelle Lennon 21:21
Yeah.
Marina 21:23
You know?
Michelle Lennon 21:24
Well, it's been a pleasure talking with you for sure, and I am, I'm excited for what comes next for you guys.
Marina 21:31
I know. There's a lot of big things happening.
Michelle Lennon 21:33
All right. Thank you so much.
Marina 21:39
Thank you, yes.
Michelle Lennon 21:39
Can't wait.
Narrator 21:41
Thank you for listening to Archways' Threads. If there is a topic you'd like to see us cover, email us at podcast@archwaysnh.org or call us at 603-960-2128. Visit our website at archwaysnh.org to learn more about the Archways' family of recovery and family resource centers.