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The Wellness Creator Podcast is your go-to source for expert insights and actionable tips in the evolving world of health, wellness, and spiritual-based business. Join us as we explore proven online growth strategies, chat about current trends, and interview fellow wellness creators who’ve managed to turn passion into profit by helping people live better, healthier lives.
Jeni Barcelos (00:32)
Welcome to the Wellness Creator Podcast. In this episode, we are going to discuss what it means to run a soulful business. Hello, Ms. Sandy. Welcome to the podcast.
Sandy Connery (00:43)
Hey, I think this is so funny Jeni because way back in the beginning of our business, we called our business like the non software side, the coaching and the courses side. We called it, I don't even know if we were coaching back then, but we called it Soulful MBA. And there was a moment where we really like pushed away from that and we changed it to Inner Circle and then we changed it to the Luminaries.
And now today in 2024, are like eight, nine years later doing a podcast on soulful.
Jeni Barcelos (01:16)
Soulful. Soulful businesses. Yeah, what I think is so interesting to observe about this process is that the name of our own marvelous site, formerly not Miss Dream site, what is, was, has always been Soulful MBA. And we never changed it, even though we've gone through so many iterations of name changes in our own coaching and course business.
Sandy Connery (01:27)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Jeni Barcelos (01:40)
Yeah, and I think like I always kind of like wanted to hold on to it. It was also a giant pain in the rear end to change, which I think is a big part of it. But I like, I like have sort of always held on to that and always wanted to keep those domains that we have around being like having Soulful MBA because there's something about it that's kind of always felt true to me. Yeah.
Sandy Connery (01:47)
Yeah.
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yes. I think like we've just like again, we've just come full circle because I really wanted to do whatever it took, push through whatever the mess and the hardness and the dislike sometimes and just do it to get to success. And I think that was a
mistake or we went too far, we went too long maybe doing what we didn't really want to do. And here we are. I don't know. It's just, it really is kind of fascinating. And I want to say to, the listeners that we last week, this is September, beginning of September, 2024, last week, we put out an episode about why we shut down our coaching business that we've been running for almost 10 years.
Jeni Barcelos (02:31)
you
Mm
Sandy Connery (02:54)
And so the response from the listeners and a lot of our old coaching clients was beautiful and heartwarming and they got it and they understood and they related. And that sort of prompted this conversation about like, you know, we all should be running a soulful business.
Jeni Barcelos (03:08)
Mm
Yeah, so I think that the one phrase that I've seen over and over in the different emails and text messages and DMs that we've gotten in the last few days have been, like, I totally get it. something along those lines. I think a lot of people are like, I'm sad. I'm disappointed. This is kind of a bummer. But I get it. That is basically the same message from almost everyone.
Sandy Connery (03:27)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Jeni Barcelos (03:40)
And I think that that's part of why I wanted to do this episode this week was because we want to kind of dive a little bit deeper into what that means, especially in light of how we've taught business over the past decade, just to provide some clarity to all of you listening and to our customers who've gone through our materials, who are on Marvelous Teaching or who've been through our Launch with Intention course or the Luminaries or the Inner Circle or any of those programs, just to kind of like give you a real
explanation for kind of how we think about this idea of running a soulful business and really being aligned with your business.
Jeni Barcelos (04:19)
So we really have come full circle. The original name of our first marvelous site, actually non Namastream site for ourselves in our coaching and teaching business was Soulful MBA. And that's a name that's like kept going this entire time. We never bothered to change it. think there was just some reluctance for lots of reasons. And I think that that's very telling given kind of our decision making process to close down our coaching program.
Sandy Connery (04:47)
Yeah. And I think I just want to say that we are doing this because of the re what people were telling us after they listened to our last week's podcast about closing down our coaching program. And we got so many responses that were like, touched my heart. Like they were just so understanding and so they just got it, right. Which is what you wanted to say.
Jeni Barcelos (05:11)
Yeah. So I think, again, the most common comment we got was, wow, I'm disappointed. I'm a little sad about this, but I totally get it. And I think that given the fact that we've taught business a certain way for the past decade, we really needed to have this conversation publicly on the podcast about our thought process and kind of
how we arrived at that decision. I mean, we talked about that a lot last week, but it really was rooted in this idea of wanting to kind of be true to our own souls. Like we actually used the word souls when we were having this conversation over the last few months. And I think that that is very indicative of like why we created the business in the first place, what we wanted to get out of it, what we wanted to bring to the world through it, and then how we arrived at kind of this like.
Sandy Connery (05:42)
Mm -hmm.
Jeni Barcelos (06:00)
Pulmonation of letting it go and it's not like the business is closed down It's really the the main program of the business is shut down and new things may come from that business But we're not ready to talk about that yet So I just want to put that out there as well But I also Sandy I really want to talk to our entire audience and our entire customer base including folks on the software platform Because I think so many people get into health and wellness because they feel
like soulfully called to do this work. And I just wanna honor and acknowledge that it's very challenging to stay connected to that initial reason when you get into the day -to -day operations of running and growing a business.
Sandy Connery (06:30)
Mm
Right. Because you are called to do the work, but you're not necessarily called to price and market and, you know, get out there and write blog posts about your work. Right. Like that's a different skillset. It's a different hat. And we know we have to wear both, but I think the calling and the soulful part is the work. I want to make the medicine. I want to sing, chant, move, whatever it is. Right. And that, that I think is.
Jeni Barcelos (06:51)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sandy Connery (07:16)
part of the disconnect.
Jeni Barcelos (07:18)
Yes, and we've talked a lot about how to incorporate your thought leadership and your soulfulness into your marketing, which I still think is, I have not changed any views on that. think that you totally can market and run that part of your business in a way that's connected to your calling. But I do think what happens and what I've observed over the last decade in the business world, including with myself, and I'm sure you would have something to say about this as well, is that like,
Sandy Connery (07:24)
Good time. Good time.
Jeni Barcelos (07:47)
you know, like you kind of start making compromises with your, I don't want to say values, but just like with what brings you joy or helps you feel connected. Like there's just at the longer you're in business, the bigger your business grows, you sort of like chip away like bit by bit at things. And then 10 years later, you're in a situation where the direction you're going, it's like if you're, you're using a compass and you're just like going, you know,
Degree different every month you're gonna end up ten years later on the other side of the planet from where you wanted to get and I think that that is so common in careers and in business because we all want to like be realistic and we want to you know, maybe follow a trend that we don't don't feel connected to or there an opportunity comes up and we feel like we have to take it because We don't know when the next one is gonna come so we kind of like compromise on what our soul is calling us to do just a little bit
over and over and over. And then, yeah, then you end up with something that doesn't feel good.
Sandy Connery (08:47)
Misery. -hmm. Yeah. So how do you think like...
How do you reign that in? How do you become aware? Because I agree with it is like so like it's a tiny thing in the moment. It's a tiny thing. It is literally one degree. But how do you know?
Jeni Barcelos (09:03)
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I think this is all about intuition and intention and soulfulness, like all of these words that we kind of throw around, these blue words, but like if you really define them for yourself, they have a real meaning. So I think I am like a big fan of morning pages, of journaling, of connecting to yourself. I think that you have to be checking in on a very regular basis with does this feel right?
Is this taking me where I want to go? And if I keep going down this path, in five years, where do I end up? I think that's a constant process that we have to evaluate against.
Sandy Connery (09:52)
Yeah. And I think too, in that process, there's like, am I people pleasing or who am I trying to please versus, cause you say yes to the podcast that you don't really want to be on or you say yes to, know, hiring some YouTube coach that's convinced you, you know, they can double your views or whatever. Right. And it's like, where are the moments where you don't want to feel the discomfort and that
Jeni Barcelos (09:57)
Yeah, yes, yes.
Mm -hmm.
Sandy Connery (10:19)
the like the friction versus what you really want to do. And that that's for me been a really big deal is like the clients want this and the clients like this or the team likes this or whomever it may be. And it's like, but I don't really want to do it anymore or I don't really, you know, and that's so the people pleasing I still think is a huge part again, especially for women in business.
Jeni Barcelos (10:34)
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, I would say that at least 75 % of the mistakes I've made in business were because of people pleasing mostly our team and sometimes each other. Like I will put that out there. Like I have made, there was a period in our business where I made daily decisions based on my fear of pissing someone off and that I felt accountable to or that I felt like we needed.
Sandy Connery (10:52)
Hmm.
Mm
All
Jeni Barcelos (11:12)
And so I just wanna say, you asked this question, how do you know if you're going off track, if you're kind of veering away from that soulful business? I think fear, for me, I think it's totally convoluted with people pleasing, but when I have made decisions out of fear in business, it has pretty much never worked out. And so I think that, so you can connect with that through journaling or through meditation or whatever, however you,
Sandy Connery (11:33)
Mm -hmm.
Jeni Barcelos (11:41)
going on a morning walk and noticing your thoughts. If you are making decisions because you were afraid for whatever reason, then I would just put the brakes on and really think about that harder before you make that decision and commit.
Sandy Connery (11:54)
Yeah, think emotion is the way to tell. Like emotion, what you are feeling is your sign, your guidepost. For me, I resent a lot of, I get angry and I'm resentful. And so those are my two sort of warning emotions that something has gone off the rails. Why are you laughing at that?
Jeni Barcelos (12:11)
Yeah.
And just like so true. Like, think it's just like so obvious to me when you're like in that state. And I'm sure my like paranoid, fearful state is, whatever, it's triggering for you too. So I think part of the reason why I really wanted to talk about this on the podcast is because so many of you who are listening to this, I've either gone through like a free version of kind of our Becoming Online Teacher that we used to have.
Sandy Connery (12:18)
Yeah.
-huh.
fear.
Mm
Jeni Barcelos (12:45)
or have been through lunch with intention or the luminaries or something. And in those programs, we have always emphasized, and on the earlier iterations of our podcasts, we've always emphasized this importance of building a business around solving a problem, an important problem for a specific group of people. And I wanna talk about how these two ideas are connected, because I don't see them as like mutually exclusive from one another.
So you need both. I mean, the short answer is you need to solve a problem for people and you need to also stay true to your soul and you're, you know, the reason why you wanna have your business. Like I think both of those things are true. If I had to pick one and this is what has changed over the last few months. If I had to only have one to start with, I actually would advocate for, especially in our industry, in the wellness industry, I would advocate for having like the passion
and having the soulful connection to your work above serving a specific group of people and solving their problem. Because I think you can create that when you are bringing a ton of energy and new thinking and content out into the world and thought leadership. I think you can manufacture an audience to purchase what you're selling.
And I think you'll know very quickly whether that's working or not. And if it isn't, then you need to pivot, right? Otherwise, it's not a business. It's a hobby. I no longer, and maybe never was, a fan of just building a business where you're solving a problem and a pain point specifically just to make money. We would not have built the businesses that we've built if we were just about that, right? We would have gone to other industries that are more lucrative.
Sandy Connery (14:29)
Mm
Jeni Barcelos (14:37)
where we were selling enterprise software for like $18 ,000 a sale, like we would have made different decisions anyway. But I think that over time, as we were teaching this content, I became kind of, I don't wanna say brainwashed, but I became a little more cynical about the idea of like even having a soulful connection to anything or even having passion for anything. Everything became so over time.
So, so much of a job.
Sandy Connery (15:12)
Yeah. Like you're an employee. You're responsible too. And you would say that you'd say, you know what? It's just my job. I can do anything. It's just my job for two hours a week. I'm going to go do X. I can do it. It's my job. Right. And it's like you forcing yourself into a place where you don't want to be. So
Jeni Barcelos (15:15)
Yeah, you're just doing your job. Yeah. Yeah.
Sandy Connery (15:35)
Yeah, I do think I agree with you. I do think there has to be a problem. Like I don't want people to think that you can just be like, I'm going to go sell chair yoga or whatever. I'm going to go sell chair yoga. then, but you don't really identify the market and the problem and the, know, like you still need to be smart about that, but you have to be connected soulfully to the work.
Jeni Barcelos (15:41)
Yes.
Yeah, I totally agree. And I also would say, if you are completely deeply, intuitively, passionately connected to helping people heal their mobility and their pain through chair yoga, you can go build a multimillion dollar business, like right now in that industry, but you have to be so effing passionate and interested in like all of the levers that it takes to scale that.
Sandy Connery (16:12)
Hmm.
Mm
Jeni Barcelos (16:32)
that you have to, like, it has to not just be like, I think I'll do this. I'm kind of good at this. It has, so like, when I say like, passion and soulful, intuitively connected, I mean from a place where it's like, I'm gonna go conquer the world with this thing, and that's the energy I'm bringing to it.
Sandy Connery (16:36)
Great.
And you're not afraid to go be visible and speak and talk and let everyone know what you're doing. Cause you're so dang excited about it. I think I don't want people to think like a soulful business is an inactive business. And it's just like love and light at all comes to me and manifesting. don't believe that. I agree that energy, what you bring with what you bring to your business is, is crucial, but you still have to go take action.
Jeni Barcelos (16:51)
Right. Yes.
Yes. Yes.
Sandy Connery (17:16)
And that can be fueled by your passion and your excitement, but it doesn't mean you sit back and like, wait for people to find you or like that white or that, Prince charming syndrome where it's like, someone will come and find me and I'll make like, somebody is going to start talking about me. You got to go do that. And no matter what business you have to take, take action. just see a lot of procrastinating and waiting and like hoping and just like,
Jeni Barcelos (17:29)
Mm
Sandy Connery (17:44)
really passively running a business. But yeah, I think you're right with the energy and the, you love it, you are going to go talk about it.
Jeni Barcelos (17:52)
Yeah. And that's the energy we brought for the first at least five years that we brought to everything together. And I woke up every day so freaking excited to do this work. There was a period of time where I was still practicing law. And I would be doing our podcast editing and writing show notes in the car on the ferryboat.
Sandy Connery (17:58)
Okay.
Jeni Barcelos (18:19)
I was like, shucks, like I have to put my passion away while I go to work and be a lawyer for a little while. And then I pick it back up after, like, it was the thing I could not wait to get to. And so I just want to put that out there. Like the level of like soulful connection, that's like what we're talking about is like, this is the thing that makes you jazzed when you wake up in the morning. And you cannot, like, and I will shot this from the rooftops forever. You cannot half ass a business and expect success.
Sandy Connery (18:25)
Mm. Do this other thing. Yeah.
Jeni Barcelos (18:49)
maybe you got lucky during three months of the pandemic and that happened, like that's never gonna happen again. Like that is not real. That was like a momentary blip. And so like, I think that the sad hard thing for me in like the last few years has been dealing with in our industry, I think these like very unrealistic expectations on behalf of the people who got started and swept into business because of the pandemic, who otherwise like,
Sandy Connery (19:17)
Mm
Jeni Barcelos (19:17)
would have worked for someone else, or maybe would have found business at a later time in life when they had a different energy for it. But you can't make this shit up. Like, you have to really want to do it.
Sandy Connery (19:29)
Or people who through the pandemic survived and threw what up through whatever up online. And now they're stuck with a business that they hate or a business model or a topic. Right. And they're too afraid to go and change it because people pleasing the clients, this is what they want. They show up every week. I can't let them down. You know what? And I, yeah, you can, you can say no, you can pivot, you can change and yeah, it sucks. And most people will understand as we've just experienced.
Jeni Barcelos (19:38)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, that's so interesting, Sandi. I want to give an analogy to our own business, our own coaching program, which is now shut down because of this. And I had not put this together until I just heard you say what you said. And that is the fact that part of my discomfort, and like, I don't want to say hatred because I didn't hate it. just, it was not like the ideal business model for me to be a part of for a long, for a long term time.
Sandy Connery (20:23)
Mm
Jeni Barcelos (20:23)
Part of why our coaching business evolved the way that it did was very much due to the pandemic. We went from having something that was like, I don't know, at the most one call a week, but even less frequent for a lot of its iteration. It was very much a self study in a written community. We had an online community with people posting questions and we were always in there answering questions and sharing links and people were helping each other. But during the pandemic, the first...
couple months of the pandemic, there was such a need in our industry to provide tremendous support that we just like became a huge robust community space with like, I think at one point we had calls every single day of the week. We had multiple coaches in there, like three coaches in addition to us at one point. were, it became this like, I don't know.
Sandy Connery (21:17)
monster.
Jeni Barcelos (21:18)
Yeah, a monster, like a giant kind of always on consulting, always interactive thing. While we're running a software company that's sort of growing exponentially, that to me was the experience of maybe if that program had not evolved in the way that it had because of the pandemic, we would still be doing it and loving it and it would have been a different animal. And so I just wanna say we weren't immune from what you're talking about either. I don't regret it because
Sandy Connery (21:36)
so quickly.
Right. Yeah. Yeah, we reacted.
Jeni Barcelos (21:47)
The community needed that at the time. The industry needed it.
Sandy Connery (21:52)
And we did make small changes. Like we took some of the coaching calls out that weren't well attended and we just, you know, like it was awful and awkward to like say, Hey, this one's not going to be there anymore. We just kind of slowly backed up trying to create what we wanted, but we just could not get back to that place of, of, of joy and, and soul, soulfulness with it.
Jeni Barcelos (21:59)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. And I think that there was, when you talk about resentment, because I just want to be honest with people and you're not the only one that feels resentment, Sandy. for people, I am an introvert. For anyone that doesn't know, you're not, but I am. But you're very good at boundaries. And I think for someone like me to have had years and years where I just kind of have to be available to so many people all the time, that took a toll on me. And I think that there was like this sort of
Sandy Connery (22:39)
Yeah.
Jeni Barcelos (22:44)
I don't know, subconscious maybe, a little bit of conscious resentment just always, like not just for client, like just for everyone, for team, for clients, for like the world, like just people DMing on Instagram when we were still, just like back the F off. Hey world, like sorry, the lights are out. And I think that that's, maybe that's burnout, maybe that's exhaustion. Like, I don't know, but for me it was like, this is no go, like.
Sandy Connery (22:48)
Yeah, yeah.
The damn inbox, yeah.
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Jeni Barcelos (23:13)
I don't know. Like, I'm not wired for this.
Sandy Connery (23:17)
Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, yes, I am an extroverted, but that was a lot like every angle 24 seven, your phone is dinging. My phone is dinging with people who need help or who want something, who want a favor, who want to ask something or who want to deal, who want like help or have a quick constantly. And so yeah, it is interesting to reflect that a big part of this. And I didn't, I didn't put this together that it is still kind of the tail end of like post COVID.
Jeni Barcelos (23:22)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Sandy Connery (23:46)
hangover of like, still trying to clean up the mess that that, that event created for us, personally and, business wise. And I do want to say Jeni, all of that, that was happening in those years, you also were dealing with long COVID. Like you were very sick on top of it all on top of the demands and the decisions and the holy shit, what do we do now? And like, you know, just navigating territory that
Jeni Barcelos (24:02)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sandy Connery (24:13)
Nobody had, you know, as, we all did, but like you were really sick and we're, are going to be posting an episode of you talking about that time in the next, in the upcoming weeks. So, cause it's, fascinating and really inspiring to hear what you did through there. But that's a little off, off, off topic.
Jeni Barcelos (24:30)
I wouldn't call it that, but thank you. But yeah, yes. I mean, and I think, I think it's like so many people who became very, very ill, right? Like there's all a lot of degrees of illness, different kinds of illnesses and mental illnesses and actual COVID hospitalizations and all kinds of terrible things that people experienced. But you're right. Like it's all tangled up for me. So I think just to go back to this idea of soulfulness, like,
Sandy Connery (24:40)
Mm
Jeni Barcelos (24:53)
I think that's rooted in intentionality in making decisions not from fear. And again, during the pandemic, we were all making decisions because of fear, like lots of different fears. And I think that part of what running a soulful business means is like being very aware of what is factoring into your decisions. I have had this since we made that decision to shut our coaching program down, what, like a month and a half ago was when we made that decision.
Sandy Connery (24:58)
Mm
Yeah. Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, no, I don't think it's, I think it's like four weeks ago.
Jeni Barcelos (25:22)
Yeah, it was like, it's a life changing transformation, I think for probably both of us. Like everything is different now.
Sandy Connery (25:27)
Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah, I wanted to talk about that. Now that we do feel like back in line, aligned. It's like, like I felt like I had a, like a anchor, you know, dragging behind me and I was just slow and like, you know, lethargic and just, couldn't go and the freedom. And I think.
Jeni Barcelos (25:37)
Mm
And yeah.
Sandy Connery (25:56)
You know, that's like one of my, think it is for a lot of people. One of my values is like, don't tell me what to do. And just like the openness and the spaciousness. And like this morning I woke up early cause we're, we've got this mammoth project and I love that everyone's writing to us calling it this mammoth fraud. Can we do your mammoth project is I was thinking about it and thinking about it. And I realized this morning I'm like, this, this is what it should be like. This is what it should be like.
Jeni Barcelos (26:02)
Mm
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Sandy Connery (26:26)
Like questions, like I'm trying to solve for things, you know, like how do we explain that? How do we talk about that? How do we get that message out? And it was like, my God, this is what it used to be like pre pandemic. Right. But I never would have got there if we held onto the coaching to keep our clients happy. I never would have gotten here. I would have been like,
Jeni Barcelos (26:38)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and that's not a logical argument because it was not enough like hours to explain it, but it is like a spaciousness and our minds I think and an access to for me creativity, which it sounds like it's the same kind of thing for you. Like I cannot be in administrative mode and creative mode at the same time. Newsflash, like those two things do not go well together. So when you are in your business and to me running a soulful business, like there has to be some
Sandy Connery (26:52)
Right.
Right. Yeah.
Jeni Barcelos (27:15)
like access to that creative life force. That's like the soulful connection for me in business is actually like tapping into that creativity. But when you're like, and now we've got to file the insurance payment and now I've got to do the coaching call. And then I have like three questions to answer. And then I've got to go on this team call. no creativity is gone.
Sandy Connery (27:35)
Yeah. And there's people that thrive on that, right? And they'll, they'll recognize that, but that is not you or I. I also want to talk about since we made the decision, like how much fun you and I have had.
Jeni Barcelos (27:41)
Yeah.
enough
Sandy Connery (27:49)
I don't know the number, but I would be embarrassed to say how many hours you and I have spent on the phone slash Slack huddle talking and weaving through things and like dreaming and just bullshitting and talking and like saying ridiculous. Like it's been so fun. Like so
fun, but hours, like we will spend, you know, two, three hours on Slack.
just talking and we never did that. Never did that. Yeah, yeah, but yeah.
Jeni Barcelos (28:25)
Well, we did in the first five years. That's all we did. I mean, that was, so that's like the birth of everything. I mean, that's what I'm trying, like, yeah, we're back. Like, it's not like, this is a new phase. I'm sure it is, cause like, whatever. But it's like, it feels like it did. I'm just thinking about like, when I moved into my house, my last house in Washington and like working off of, like my desk was a cardboard box and I was sitting on the floor and.
Sandy Connery (28:34)
Okay.
Jeni Barcelos (28:51)
It was just like Thanksgiving and things were crashing with the app. But I was so freaking happy. I was stressed. But it was like the adventure of a lifetime. And it was fun. it was like, I have not had that energy in a long time, like years. And that is like, you and I are really good operating from that place together. So I just think like, folks, if you are feeling disconnected in your business,
Sandy Connery (29:01)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm
Jeni Barcelos (29:20)
Like you need to listen to that. Like I think that we maybe did not set the best example for the last couple of years of like pushing through. We did the best we could. No, whatever. We can't change anything. But like, if I could go back and do it differently, would have ended this sooner and really listened to that inner soulful calling to be able to access the part of running a business that brings me joy.
Sandy Connery (29:39)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I would have done the same. would have like, it was literally years that we talked about it and it should have been shut down the, you know, probably a good year ago. But anyway, whatever, no, no regrets. No regrets.
Jeni Barcelos (29:55)
years.
Two years, two years. But yes, yes, because we were both like dead inside for the last couple years. I mean, that's just being honest. And I think people don't talk about that.
Sandy Connery (30:09)
Mm
Yeah. Yeah. But I, and I, I do like, there is another side. Like if you are experiencing this and don't want to sell what you're selling or you need to do a huge pivot or you need to shut it down and start something new or whatever it may be, or leave a career and come, you know, into the online space.
There is another side that is like beautiful and fun and exciting and like you can never go wrong. I don't think you can never go wrong if you follow that sort of soulful bliss.
Jeni Barcelos (30:34)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's right. And I think part of it is being honest. And this is the other thing that I will point out that I think was really helpful for me. And I know I shared a lot of this with you already, Sandy, which was like, I was really looking at businesses that I was jealous of. I was really trying to notice where I was feeling envy. And I know we're like kind of in one school of thought we're taught to like that that's kind of a bad.
Sandy Connery (31:00)
Yeah.
Jeni Barcelos (31:08)
you know, bad thing to pay attention to or that's negativity or you're just comparing yourself. But I was like, there's a real reason why I'm watching people in these businesses and I'm so freaking jealous. And then I'm also paying attention to other founders and their businesses and their stories and where I'm like, hell no. Like, I don't want anything to do with that. Listen to those things. Those are breadcrumbs. Those are your soul's breadcrumbs. yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sandy Connery (31:28)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, Sarah Fisk says what you are jealous of is what you is really what you want, right? And so yeah, listen to it.
Jeni Barcelos (31:38)
Yes, and I think that that was like, when I was, you and I have had a lot of conversations about this and we almost started a different podcast together like six months ago because of this. We were both really inspired by certain other podcasters actually who were that, like the podcast is their entire business and they were sharing honest, heartfelt, real, authentic, raw conversations.
Sandy Connery (31:46)
Okay.
Jeni Barcelos (32:05)
And that was where my jealousy was. For the last few years, was so jealous, especially because of cancel culture and because I shut myself down for years. It was a noticing of the craving. I don't want to be quiet and muted and running a business from an administrative place for the next 20 years.
Sandy Connery (32:26)
to appear.
Jeni Barcelos (32:34)
I'm not a good parent, I'm not a good partner, I'm not a good friend, I'm not a good anything from that place. Like I just saw how it was showing up in the world and it was terrible. So like listen to those jealousies, listen to those, your soul is giving you information. Listen to it.
Sandy Connery (32:56)
Yeah, you can run a soulful business. It's possible.
Jeni Barcelos (33:00)
Yeah. Yeah.
Sandy Connery (33:02)
Okay, Jeni, good chat.
Jeni Barcelos (33:04)
All right, thank you for the chitty chat, Sandy. All right, folks, we will see you next week.
Sandy Connery (33:10)
Bye.