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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Bettson AB has reported on its 11th consecutive
quarter of growth. Leadership cites that Bettson
brands are now outperforming the growth of markets
and competitive metrics. iGaming Daily speaks
to CEO Pontus Lindbo on Bettson's success across
new and existing markets. This episode of iGaming
Daily is brought to you by OptiMove, the number
one marketing and CRM solution for the global
iGaming industry. Hi everyone. I'm Ted and I'm
joined by Pontus Lindvold, CEO of Betsson AB,
who is proudly wearing his Inter Milan shirt.
Great to see. Did you wear that on the investor
call? I did actually. There was no camera there,
but there was a presentation in the financial
newspaper of Sweden this morning, which is quite
a big one. And yeah, I had it. Can I just say
that as a kind of sir of football shirts, I
really like what you've done with the Inter
Milan sponsorship. Yeah, thank you. It comes
really well in, in throwing the shirts. Anyhow,
you've got a lot to celebrate. So 11 quarters
of consecutive growth reflecting on kind of
your comeback as CEO to Betson. What does that
achievement tell us about your business? Yeah,
I think. Initially, there was a lot of things
that I found that we could do with the company
and just had to make sure that we have, you
know, that I have a very strong team around
me, which is committed to do all of these things.
And now we've been doing that for many years
and it pays off. And you're now confident that
you're not only outperforming metrics, but
you're outperforming your competitors. So what
do you believe that? Bretton has over the competition
and what Bretton is bringing to kind of individual
markets. It's very hard to say. I think, you
know, it's a mix of, of course, we have a great
organization and we have like, you know, we
have people spread out over the world. We have
teams more or less everywhere. And I used to
say that, you know, all those teams are important.
If you would take one single team away. then
we would notice it wouldn't function the whole
thing. So it's a very well-oiled, big machinery
with a lot of committed people that are committed
and to do the same dream. We want to be where
we are now and be in the forefront of this industry.
We like it. We think it's fun and that helps
a lot. So let's talk about Betsson where it
is now. As CEO, are you satisfied with the
current product mix and revenue breakdown of
Betsson, that 24% sportsbook versus 70% casino?
Do you think that's a point of exposure for
your business? I think this quarter it was
about 24, 25% sports and a couple of quarters
ago it was That fluctuates depending on the
sportbook margins and other things. In general,
I think we're in a good position. Of course,
there are certain markets where I want us to
be bigger than we are today. We have things
to improve with the product, even though we
put a lot of efforts into the product and we
think we have come a very long way. Yes. To
summarize, there are lots of more things to
do and that's why we continue to struggle on
here. So when we are sitting here discussions,
discussing this, you know, I have 2,500 people
working out there to sort what's going to happen
next, you know, so, uh, we're not satisfied
where we are today. We're going to continue.
Okay. So as an executive team, we've seen bets
and take big bets. One of them is. being more
dynamic and progressing their sportsbook platform.
How does the new acquisition of Sporting Bet
Solutions make you more dynamic on the sportsbook
front? We have been a satisfied and happy customer
to that company for quite some time. I think
it's around 10 years. So we know it well. We
know how the products fit into our sportsbook.
Now we got the nice opportunity to acquire
the company. I think it's good. I hope we will,
of course, we will be more tied to that company
and hopefully we can have some influence on
the roadmap as well. So I'm sure that's going
to help, you know, to pave the way for our sportsbook,
which has developed greatly the past five years.
But it's such an important thing so that we
will continue to make it even better. One thing
that jumps out about Betts and its market mix
and you guys analyzing which regions and jurisdictions
you can grow in effectively. You highlighted
wearing your Inter shirt, you highlighted big
prospects in Italy. How confident are you that
market reorganization will work in Betts' favor?
And why are you doubling down in Italy necessarily
compared to other markets? It's not only the...
the marketing teams, et cetera, that judge which
markets we should go for. It's something that
we analyze in the company from all different
aspects. And I think we have managed to find
our own ways in terms of choosing which markets
to go for. And that has served us well. So
we have confidence in... in what we do there
and we're going to continue to do those judgments
and try to find new interesting markets that
we can put our efforts into. Okay, staying
in Western Europe, I'm sure you heard the news
this week that the French online casino is
going to be legislated for and you've also kind
of increased your share in your joint venture.
What are your market prospects in France? Do
you see yourself making a play in that market
for online casino? Yeah. Let's see what the
regulation will be like, but it's well about
time or it's almost on overtime that they introduce
casino games to that market because it's been,
as we all know, an open market for black non-regulated
operators. So we believe it's about time that
the licensed companies, the ones that, you know,
work. hand in hand with the regulator that
pays its taxes, that we will be the one that
will serve the people who wants to play casino
games in France. So it's good that it finally
happens. Did you have any knowledge that was
gonna come into play for France or did that
come as a surprise to you? Not knowledge, but
we have been, you know, of course voicing our
opinion about this. Not that I think this...
regulation that now happens, it doesn't by any
means come from the Betzon angle. But as an
industry, I think it has been obvious that something
could happen there and it should happen. And
now it seems that it's about to happen. Will
Barron Perfect. So I'm now going to kind of
move you kind of eastwards and the CEE has become
your biggest revenue generating region. How
are you maintaining that balance and sustainability,
knowing that there are going to be upcoming
market changes in Croatia and Georgia? How do
you look at those adjustments coming in for
Betsson? I hope that they will not change the
development of Betsson in a bad way or even
a notable way. We are used to changes in many
different markets. Lucky for us, we have quite
a great diversity in markets. So we hope that
we can continue to crank on well in these markets.
Because the markets you mentioned are two important
markets for us. So I think, look, it's coming
up to the end of the year and everyone's, every
analyst is kind of eyeing up kind of the South
American opportunities. Now, you bet. big and
you bet early on this market. Do you think
that you achieved localization in the South
American markets that you're active in? What
advantage is that to Betsson moving forward?
Yeah, we realized early that in order to be
able to have any kind of success or any kind
of traction. in the Latin American markets,
you need to have a local flavor, you need to
have local adoptions in terms of payments and
all of that. We have learned and we have people
on ground. So I think we have a good foundation
to act for in the Latin American markets. one
brand that you acquired and it's a particularly
strong one. It's it's Incubate in Peru. How
are key upgrades going out for that subsidiary?
And do you think that you can expand Incubate
beyond, uh, its single market play beyond Peru?
I'm sure they could. Uh, I'm, I'm not so sure
it's going to happen. The Incubate acquisition
has played out pretty well, but we have to remember
that. Betson, which is the flagship brand of
our group, has an even stronger position in
Peru. And moving on to Brazil, and especially
what we've seen as an industry in this Q3, we've
seen Flutter acquire Bet Nacional. We've had
very positive numbers coming from Intain pre-market
for Brazil. How are you monitoring your competitors'
maneuvers? ahead of the market launch. And do
you see kind of any trends happening? Yeah.
We follow what our competitors do in preparation
for the market opening. And I think not only
us, but everyone who follows this industry can
see that it's going to be a strong lineup for
this market opening. And many companies that
are opening up their wallets. quite strongly.
As we say in the report and in communication
to the market, we will not put all the money
that we have on the bank and rush into the market
with that. Rather, see how it develops. We
will be in the market. We will not take the
biggest bet initiative, but rather see how
it plays out. Taking that balanced approach
to Brazil and from the position that you're
in at the moment, yeah, I'm just going to put
it straight to you. What do you think the cull
rate or the kill rate is going to be in Brazil
once the market is activated? That's impossible
to say. But you don't think it's sustainable
for what's being put forth with... over a hundred
brands coming in. No, I was just about to say,
I think I'm trying to think about the market,
which has been, you know, up for opening up
where there has been so many operators lined
up. I can't think of anything like that. So
it's an extraordinary situation, I would say.
Okay. And coming up to the end of the year,
I know you're there wearing your Inter shirt,
but... What's on your Christmas list as a CEO
for 2025? What do you want to see happen for
the industry? Actually, I think from the industry,
I would like to see a discussion amongst regulators
and obviously at the end of the day, between
national states about, okay, now we have regulation,
now we have taxation in many markets. How do
we make sure? that this doesn't shrink or disappear,
or even how do we make sure that we can expand
this part, which is the regulated part of the
industry? And that is a discussion that I would
really want to get going between regulators
so that they could understand the dynamics between,
marketing restrictions, product restrictions.
high tax levels and things like that. That's
on top of my wishlist. Well Pontus, thank you
for that caveat. We hope that transitions to
2025. It's been a pleasure interviewing you.
Have a great day. Thank you. Same to you. Bye
bye. Yeah, really interesting interview there,
Ted. Good to get the thoughts of Pontus as they
continue a trajectory, an upward trajectory
of growth. Just recording continued... great
results. One thing that he kind of did keep
close to his chest was the question on exposure.
Obviously, we know they're, I think, like 24%
sportsbook and 70% casino. What were you expecting
from that question? Do you think there will
be fears on that exposure from Bettson? I think,
look, as a PLC, Bettson probably need a higher
percentage of sportsbook rather
regulatory markets, they prefer a better product
mix there of balance from your high-risk casino
games versus your more controllable sportsbook
elements. So I think it's market-regulated.
That's going to come more into play. But again,
they're doing a lot of investment in that particular
area, the acquisition of sporting solutions.
So one thing that we always get from Pontus
is that he backs the strategy and... They are
one step ahead and they are building towards
creating better platforms and becoming more
self-reliant in every aspect of their enterprise.
So I think it's an element that they've got
under control, but as he said, there are so
many factors in sports betting, you know, including
the margins and the, you know, how the fixtures
play out. But I think that, you know, they will
need a better kind of product makeup or product
mix. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Another thing you
kind of brought to the attention, I know you've
covered the market in quite some depth, including
on this podcast, is the French market. Interesting
to hear his thoughts on that. Where do you think
Betson will be thinking lies ahead for the
French market? I think for now they're going
to be cautious. We still don't know what the
real tax rate is going to be. What actual legislation
the... French market, the French government
are going to put into play for online casino,
how heavy that's going to be on compliance
and compliance demands. But look, it's a big
Western market coming into play. I think all
CEOs will have their eye on that. Western European
markets that are dynamic or are fresh or nearly
impossible to come by. all leadership will be
analysing the markets and what they can get
out of it. I think we'll see early by 2025 who
takes the bite for the French market. Right.
Another market that Pontus was talking a lot
about was the Latin American market. And then
the results, obviously, they got quite substantial
growth in there. I think it was over 34%, something
like that. What were your thoughts on what you
said about localisation in that market? What
do you think that will say about the approach
to entering Brazil when that opens up hopefully
later this year? It's clear that bets and trades
with confidence in Latin America, it bet big
early and it's reap the rewards of that. But
I think leadership amongst all PLCs views Brazil
and Brazil bets as completely different to any
market. In South America it's much bigger.
It's got... know, certain very, it's structured
in a much more different way to the other markets
that we're seeing in South America. So yes,
they've done very well in South America, but
I think Betz is a different proposition. Also,
as he mentioned, launching with another hundred
markets at the same time really kind of elevates
the competition. I don't know how sustainable
the first stages of play are going to be for
Brazil. I think that is in the minds of leadership.
I don't know what you guys made out of his response,
but I think everyone in Brazil is keeping their
cards close to their chest. Yeah, I agree. He
also gave us his Christmas wish list. Your
request, Ted, a good question to close and I
think we should close the same here. Firstly,
I guess we hope that markets don't disappear.
realistic are his hopes for the year ahead.
Also, what's on your Christmas wishlist, Ted?
What's on your Christmas wishlist this year?
Can I just add that I really liked that. It
was nice. It was very nice. Yeah. No, because
you do see some bad ones with the weird guy
gaming. Aesthetically, I'm saying guys, right?
So yeah, I'd like an Inter Milan shirt. If anyone
wants to hear this. But no, I think his vision
is kind of reflected where the market is and
it actually does carry conversation. I think
leadership, regulators, and wider stakeholders
need to have about the industry. Can we have
some harmonization on rules? Can we get a level
playing field on platforms? And again, I think
there's also kind of... Looking back to what
you said about this fear of like the Brazilian
market is a great opportunity, right? But it
is not the perfect condition to launch a market.
I don't think anyone in leadership wants to
go active with 100 brands coming into play.
I think the fallout of that market will be realized
quite quickly.
But I think there's a lot of truth in what you
had to say in terms of the vision for the industry.
What are your thoughts? Yeah, no, I agree. I
also agree that it's an interesting time. It's
an important time and that type of harmonisation
is crucial, especially if we're to combat the
black market. We've heard so much about the
black market, kind of the growing threat of
the black market. If we're to combat that in
the year ahead and it's kind of all we've got
time for as well. A really good interview and
good to follow up as well and kind of pick
your brain after it and hope you've made the
nice listing you get your into shirt this year,
Ted. Thank you.