Beyond The Job Title | Underrepresented Career Stories

Join us for an engaging and insightful discussion as we explore building community, embracing new horizons, conquering imposter syndrome, fostering connections, leaving a meaningful legacy, and unlocking the keys to professional success. Prepare to be inspired as we explore the transformative power of picking yourself, building your body of work, and embracing growth opportunities.

  • (00:00) - Intro
  • (02:44) - Building Community | Unraveling the Origins of David's Community-Building Nature
  • (06:57) - Running Towards New Horizons | David's Journey from San Francisco to New York
  • (13:33) - Shifting Identities | How Seth Godin's Podcast Workshop Transformed David into a Podcaster
  • (18:44) - Conquering Imposter Syndrome | Overcoming Barriers to Connect with Successful Individuals
  • (23:45) - We All Have a Need to Share Our Experiences
  • (27:11) - Legacy | How Does David Want to Be Remembered?
  • (29:02) - Live Podcast Meetups | Engaging and Connecting with the Audience in Real-Time
  • (37:00) - Chief of Staff Role | Insights and Advice for Stepping into this Strategic Position
  • (40:24) - Gaining Momentum for Your Projects | The Law of 100 Repetitions
  • (48:44) - Connecting with Creators | Becoming Part of Their Inner Circle
  • (49:54) - Outro

David’s Bio

David is currently the host of the weekly 250+ episode Portfolio Career podcast show and Community Operations Manager for the Chief of Staff Network and BizOps Network. David was a Founding Coach for Maven, and before that David worked directly with Chris Schembra and Lisa Carmen Wang.

Referenced
Where to find David
Where to find Cesar

Creators & Guests

Host
Cesar Romero
Helping startups and SMBs build strong customer relationships that drive product adoption, reduce churn, and increase revenue | Community-Driven | Podcast Host
Guest
David Nebinski
Community @ Chief of Staff & BizOps Networks | 260+ episode podcast

What is Beyond The Job Title | Underrepresented Career Stories?

The lack of diversity in tech can lead to imposter syndrome, bias, and a sense of isolation that hinders your growth and ambition.

Welcome to 'Beyond The Job Title Podcast,' where we shine a spotlight on the journeys of underrepresented tech professionals and allies within the SaaS industry.

Join us as we delve into the personal development and career insights that have fueled their success.

Discover the stories of trailblazing underrepresented SaaS founders, executives, and professionals who have broken barriers and achieved remarkable milestones.

Whether you're seeking inspiration, mentorship, or actionable strategies to advance your career, our podcast is your go-to resource.

Tune in to gain valuable insights, build your network, and navigate your tech career journey with confidence.

Subscribe now and take the next step toward your own success in the world of tech.

Ready to connect and go beyond the title?

Join the community and be one of the first to know when new episodes drop.

Subscribe: https://www.beyondthejobtitle.com/subscribe

David Nebinski | BJT10 - Main
[00:00:00]
[00:00:00] David: you gotta pick yourself and,For me with the podcast, it's every week is picking myself and investing into my own personal body of work.
[00:00:08] And it's really fulfilling and it's really great to have full creative control and to feel like you're learning and growing and building something, even if it's doesn't meet the expectations of what other people have, but just like doing it for yourself, is really empowering. And, I think I would love to see more people, try personal projects and take them seriously.
[00:00:31] I think taking a personal project seriously,isn't a, an incredible feeling and there's some ups and downs that we were talking about, but I think once you get to the other side or get to some over some humps, it's some really great stuff. So I would encourage people to.
[00:00:47] especially in the last couple months, we've continued to see just like companies that are just, not being as human and are just like, doing what's in the best interest for their company in their bottom line, which is not, is at odds of the [00:01:00] humans, the people that are behind, that are in those roles,
[00:01:02] Cesar: So I think picking yourself and taking your own body of work seriously will continue to help you, navigate uncertainty and will help you lead to future opportunities and fulfillment and great conversations, Hey friends, this is your host Cesar Romero. And you're listening to beyond the job title podcast, the show that explores the human experiences to shape our professional and personal lives. My guest for this episode is my good friend, David. he is the host of the portfolio career podcast. Where he gets to talk. With people from all walks of life who have to sign their portfolio career. To optimize for growth, resiliency, and happiness. He's also the community operations manager for the chief of staff network and B's ops network.
[00:01:57] On a personal level. He is the [00:02:00] inspiration behind. Me starting this podcast. And in this episode, we dive into his journey as a podcaster, as a creator. Overcoming imposter syndrome, connecting with successful people.
[00:02:12] The art of building community. But most importantly, We dive into the Y. Of betting on yourself. Picking yourself. And building that body of work that will unlock. Learning opportunities. Growth opportunities. And great conversations that might lead you to success and fulfillment. So if you are someone that is.
[00:02:35] On that path of starting a creative project, Then this episode is for you. Thank you so much for joining and here's my conversation with David Lipinski.
[00:02:44] David, thanks so much for coming on the show. And I wanna start off with, so I went to your LinkedIn and there is a recommendation there that stood out to me from Ben Bradbury Uhhuh, and I'm gonna read it so that [00:03:00] listeners have,the full recommendation.
[00:03:01] And I quote, in a city of 9 million people, David makes New York feel small in the best possible way. How his empathetic approach to community building forging connections comes naturally, as does moving teams forward under a common goal. For me when it comes to the movements David leads joining isn't a matter of if, but when.
[00:03:29] And I have to agree with that. To me, it's, it was a matter of when And until I came in to the course, and became part of your community. But I wanted to ask you,where does that come from? The community building, the building
[00:03:42] David: connections? well, I think we need to first give a shout out to Ben.
[00:03:48] I literally was just texting with him, but,I think that Ben has an incredible ability to distill ideas and to short, actionable, [00:04:00] relatable, specific, nuggets. so I think it's a major shout out to Ben on that. and super honored. Ben's an incredible guy. If you don't know about kind of B2B podcasting,and the space that's happening there, and a lot of the movement that's actually been happening there, that Ben and the workweek team have been leading, you should definitely check that out.
[00:04:20] Ben is an incredible content creator himself, but has decided to elevate other people's brands and businesses and their ideas. but I think that at some point the tables will turn and Ben will take the mic again and, people should keep an eye out on Ben Bradbury. not that they already aren't, but I think that, He, his ideas and his work will be on a bigger pedestal at some point, sooner than later.
[00:04:49] where does the relatability come from or where does that quote come from? I think that I'm just a product of the people that I've been in my [00:05:00] life, that, that are in my life, Ben being one of them. and I think my story is actually a little bit similar to the way Ben's story is, Ben moved to New York in 20 16, 20 17, only knowing like one or two people.
[00:05:13] And then in 2018 or 2019, he left to go first to Bali, then back to London, but he threw a picnic going away party and there was, I don't know, 50 to 75 people, all great friends of his from all different walks of life and. He but came to New York with one friend. so again, testament to Ben.
[00:05:33] I think I've gotten lucky by finding some incredible people and somehow them letting me become friends with 'em or chatting with them. I found a community called Personal Development Nerds and that's where I met Ben and a lot of other great people. That was really kinda influential for me when I was in New York, and still am in New York, but when I moved to New York and, yeah, so I [00:06:00] think,when I first moved here, I was trying to start a little bit of a newer chapter, was trying to make new friends, going out to bars, going to places, a lot of events by myself, and then stumbled across this group called Personal Development Nerds and was like, wow, there's some incredible people here that are talking about ideas, talking about books, talking about.
[00:06:19] their purpose, things that they're creating, things that they're building, and it was never about their job. going to like the core thesis of this podcast beyond the job title, and, that was like super inspiring to me after I had moved here from San Francisco. and that, I was like, how do I stay friends with these people?
[00:06:36] How do I stay close to these people? So kept staying, showing up, at that community and their events. And then, started my podcast in 2018, the portfolio curve podcast. and the first, the first guest, was my roommate at the time who he was a influential member of that community. yeah, I got lucky.
[00:06:55] Still am lucky.
[00:06:57] Cesar: what prompted the move from San Francisco to New York, [00:07:00] and what were you running away from and what were you running towards to.
[00:07:06] David: I moved here with a job, so I was head of growth at a company, a startup at the time. It's like a chief of staff, like role. we, me and the two co-founders had a week of meetings here in New York. I was living in San Francisco at the time, as I'm mentioning, and we had a road show, here in New York and, I don't know, 10, 12, 15 meetings or something like that.
[00:07:27] A lot of potential big partnerships, And then at the end of the day we were at like a WeWork and whiteboarding, here's what we thought was gonna happen. Here's what actually happened, here's some kind of next steps. And we were just mapping them all out and, We're like, okay, take the lead on this.
[00:07:43] what do we think about that? here's what I learned. Is that what you heard too? And then,I was like, this is all, this all sounds good, but, I don't think any of this is gonna happen remotely at that time. And, they said, yeah, that's a good, I, yeah, that, that makes sense. I was like, yeah, I think somebody should be here.[00:08:00]
[00:08:00] And they said, yeah, that makes sense. Who do you think it should be? I was like, same person has said yes to, to many other kind of new projects, new initiatives. not to say that the founders didn't, and many people at the other company didn't, but you know, it was an early stage scrappy startup.
[00:08:17] And so we were all putting the company be in front of our own kind of personal interests. And so I was like, anyways, I'll try this out. And I think it started as A week experiment, two weeks max. And then at the, after each week for a couple weeks, I would just say Hey, things are going well.
[00:08:31] Here's a progress update. And they were like, cool, sounds good. Stay another week. And so it was just bouncing from Airbnb to Airbnb. so I think I was running towards those new opportunities. that was my potential growth at the company was like securing one of these partnerships.
[00:08:48] and thankfully one of them happened. and so I was running towards that opportunity. And I think when you work at a startup, there's, you go in these ebbs and flows and stuff and that was like a way for me to jump on,and try to [00:09:00] ride. And so that brought me here to New York and, I don't think that I was really running away.
[00:09:05] From much in San Francisco. I think my time in San Francisco was like an incredible chapter. I, had moved out there similar to the way I was like talking about New York of wanting to start a new chapter. and yeah, it was great. met a lot of cool people, got really like into the kind of like the tech and startup scene there.
[00:09:24] so I don't know candidly at the top of my head, I don't really think I was like running away from anything there. It was just like New York kind of just brought me here. New York
[00:09:36] Cesar: sucked you in into, for someone that might be considering moving to a new city. what advice would you have for them in terms of building meaningful connections?
[00:09:46] Like how do you approach. Finding communities, finding people that you wanna connect with. and we'll get into podcasting, later on. But yeah, for someone that's yeah, I wanna move to a new city, but I'm scared because, I'm not gonna [00:10:00] know anybody.
[00:10:02] David: before we jump into that,do you feel that you're either running away or running away from something or running towards something?
[00:10:07] I love that question. I'm curious to hear if, if you ask the que sometimes there's a question behind the question, which is a que you question, you're trying to ask somebody to get their answer, but also you're trying to internalize a little bit because you might be going through the same thing.
[00:10:20] I don't know, does that anything similar on your side? Is that, is there a decision that you're working through? Well, first of all,
[00:10:28] Cesar: thanks for asking questions cuz I see podcasting more, more of a dance. so I love and I can see the experience podcasts are coming into play here, but, yeah, I believe that all of us are, at all times are either running away from something or running towards something.
[00:10:45] At this particular moment in my life, I'm running away from, not listening to myself in terms of those creative projects that I want to have come out and put into the world, right? So this podcast is one [00:11:00] of those. and, because I don't want to get to, let's say when I'm 80, 90, if I get there,
[00:11:07] David: manifest it.
[00:11:09] Yeah.
[00:11:10] Cesar: and how much regret of oh man, I should have done that podcast when I had the chance, or I should have. Insert whatever creative project you have, I should have. So I wanna minimize the shoes. so that's what I'm running away from and what I'm running towards to is
[00:11:27] serendipity, building relationships with awesome people, having great conversations. I was,I had a podcast guest yesterday, and we're just talking and, I told her, look, ideally in an ideal world if I could just have a microphone and you put me in whatever city, ideally I would just have conversations with strangers and ask them where they've been, where they're going, what they do,
[00:11:54] and do that. yeah. So all this to say that, that's what I'm running towards, [00:12:00] just, I guess, giving myself more permission to. To scratch those. Its right in terms of creativity,and, building relationships with people. and have more meaningful conversations.
[00:12:10] Yeah.
[00:12:11] David: what do you think is holding you back from doing just the podcasting full-time? I mean, it's, these days it's possible more than probably ever. what do you think is holding you back on that?
[00:12:22] Cesar: what's holding me back was,fear and judgment of people of other people.
[00:12:28] Really like people that I don't even know, but
[00:12:31] David: many people feel that way too. yeah. thanks for calling it out cuz there is, yeah. that's,something that I'm sure I've gone through at APL plenty of different times. I can't think about it in this moment, but,yeah. Yeah. And it's super
[00:12:44] Cesar: relatable so that, which.
[00:12:47] Perfect segue into, into podcasting, right? Because you have done so far, 250 plus episodes, right? Yeah. For portfolio careers. And you have interviewed like some, like [00:13:00] amazing accomplished people,set coding, Doug Clark, Lisa Carmen, Wang, those are just few that are top of mind right now.
[00:13:07] Yeah. and I wanted to ask you, there are two questions starting with what kept you going, right? how was the early stage for you in terms of letting go of that external judgment and also that internal judgment too, because like as Steven Pressfield likes to call, there's always that resistance when you're a creator.
[00:13:29] So I'm just curious, what that journey was for you.
[00:13:33] David: so I started it a little bit of on a whim, in the summer of 2018. I think there's some people that like been thinking about a podcast for years and then they like, decide to make the leap.
[00:13:43] for me, I'd gone through a little bit of a shift, a shift in perspective, a new worldview in New York compared to San Francisco that I was talking about a little bit before. And then I got an email, as part of Seth Godin's normal daily blog that said, Hey, I'm starting this new [00:14:00] podcasting fellowship.
[00:14:01] think of it a little bit like a summer program. it's not about,how many downloads you have or if you make any money, it's about creating a body of work. It's about developing skills and it's about like you actually making it. And it was something about the right email, the right language at the right time.
[00:14:19] That just was like, sparked something inside me. So I was like, oh, let me, lemme check this out. And it was super affordable as well. And I was in that workshop and immediately I was like, whoa, this is a space, a place that I'd never been a part of.
[00:14:35] This kind of online community, this kind of online workshop of people that we're all super passionate about wanting to create a body of work. And I think there's something really cool, and I think this is why kind of founder accelerators are also very popular and transformational, but I think that there's something really special that happens in a podcast team.
[00:14:58] or podcasting launch [00:15:00] accelerator where someone has an idea and then they leave with a podcast. There's something really special that happens there. Nothing against a lot of the other courses, but I think there's something really special that happens when, before you take this workshop or before I took this workshop, didn't have a podcast after left with a podcast and there was a big transformation that happened there.
[00:15:20] Started walking differently, started thinking differently, started talking differently. And I, and was just loving this workshop. And so after it was over, I launched the show and then a little bit after that, somehow Seth and. his partner on the workshop, wonderful woman named Alexander DePalma, who's super talented, is founder, co-founder of a podcast production company called, domino Sound.
[00:15:46] she's produced many popular podcasts and incredible, woman. And she, they said Hey, like this first new workshop, this first new cohort, went well and we wanna do it again, [00:16:00] and we want you to be a part of it. And I was like, wait, what? I was like, I literally have I think I, at that time I had 15 episodes or 20 episodes,and, but I still felt like super green.
[00:16:13] And they were like, it doesn't matter. You don't need to be experienced. just do the same stuff that you were doing in the class, in the workshop. Just, answering questions, connecting with people, like sharing updates on where you're at. Ask follow up questions, try, just try to be helpful.
[00:16:27] And, I said, all And that being in that program, so as a coach, like forced me to then model the behavior of continuing to keep going. Like I didn't wanna like coach people to say yeah, publish this episode, but I don't know. I don't know what that's like. And so that was the fall of 2018.
[00:16:48] And so then after the end of that one, I don't know, at that time I was probably like 40 episodes or something like that. And then I got lucky and they asked me to be a coach for the next two cohorts. And so [00:17:00] then by that time it was over, I don't know, I had maybe like 70 or 80 episodes. And I think then at that point, it just was like ingrained into me.
[00:17:07] It just be, I was just, my identity or one of my identities was a podcaster. And what do podcasters do? They publish episodes and. so then I just kept on going. And I think the, and then during the pandemic and, in 2020 and 2021, there was,a lot less to do. a lot less distractions.
[00:17:30] A lot more people became accessible through Zoom. Like conversations like this on Zoom were happening a little bit before, but are now a lot more common. People had upgraded their mics. People were used to having meetings recorded. Like the idea of hopping on a Zoom and having, an in-depth personal conversation with someone who you'd never met before became like more and more prevalent and common.
[00:17:51] So the tailwinds of that was very lucky. And, and, so that, those are some of the tailwinds that have kept me going for me. [00:18:00] Like I also like really like it from a,Oh, as a way to keep me on my toes. And, so that kind of like the dancing with fear that you were talking about and the tension, to me, that's what kind of keeps me going.
[00:18:12] And I like the cold outreach. oh, who could I like try to talk to this week? And that always keeps me like pushing forward. And then, I mean, if you like re if you have something on your calendar of someone who you really look up to, like you're gonna force yourself to learn.
[00:18:29] You're gonna say, oh my gosh, I gotta read their books. I gotta go through all their tweets and their blogs and and that's a really incredible forcing function to learn. And yeah, whenever I feel like stuck a little bit, I'm like, let me just try to reach out to someone even higher than I've already done.
[00:18:44] Cesar: Who was that first big guest for you? And yeah. What was that experience like? Did you ever feel like, hey, I should not be reaching out to this person. I'm not ready.
[00:18:56] David: Yeah, of course. there was probably two that [00:19:00] kind of comes to mind really early on.
[00:19:02] one was, Austin Allred, who's the founder of a company called Bloom, which used to be called Lambda School. And,very prolific on Twitter. and I think he tweeted and said something about Hey, if you have a podcast, I wa I wanna talk to podcasters and I want to get the word out about what we're doing at Lambda School at the time.
[00:19:25] And, so I just responded to that tweet and,And, then he responded and then,I forget the details, but it was something around like, when should we do this? and then,
[00:19:36] I just flew out there and was like, I felt like it just was, it would've been a better conversation and, and maybe, I don't know, would force give me more skin in the game? And I don't know, maybe I thought like maybe wouldn't cancel if you knew that I was coming there. I don't know what the psychology was at the time, but, yeah, that just was like a cold tweet.
[00:19:56] and then I went out there and that was an incredible conversation. And that was like [00:20:00] episode 2025, somewhere around there, very early on. Sweet. And
[00:20:04] Cesar: then, so you flew yourself out there and had the interview in person? Yeah. Was that the first time that you were doing a in, in person podcast
[00:20:13] David: interview?
[00:20:14] No, the first interview was with my roommate at the time, so I was in person. Oh, that's right. That's right. and then a lot of the other, a lot of the first episodes were in person,close friends, and then expanding the network a little bit.
[00:20:27] met somebody at an event and thought they were super interesting, And then, or somebody had recommended someone. And then Austin was the first that was like a big kind of like real branch out outside the network. and then, Steve Schlafman, I really looked up to him and he was like, yeah, let's do it.
[00:20:47] Cesar: And so then we met up in person and, tho those kind of two, early on were like, like really big wins for me. How has your [00:21:00] perspective and mindset shifted, from doing 250 plus interviews, how has that impacted your work in building community, with the sh chief of staff network?
[00:21:11] Yeah. And even podcasting itself.
[00:21:14] well, I'm actually curious, did you experience that with your other podcast? I know you, this one you're just getting started, but did you experience some of those moments and what were those like for you? I think it's so cool to, I never really get these kind of conversations the behind it, like podcaster to podcaster,so I'm curious if you had, I know you mentioned you were co-hosting a show, but if there was like some moments where you were like, wow, like this is happening.
[00:21:35] Yeah. I think the biggest shift for me was in realizing that whether you are an executive or c e o or a professional just starting their career, everybody is approachable and everybody has problems. Everybody's human, they have insecurities, they have a need to share their experiences with others.
[00:21:59] So as [00:22:00] soon as you are bold and courageous and come from a place of genuine, like you want to know more about the person Yeah. And make the ask via email, via Twitter. So that shifted because, I kept, reaching out as what you said, right? some people didn't respond. Some people said, Hey, this is a good time.
[00:22:20] But I would say eight 80% of the guests that I, I reached out, they were like, yeah, let's do it. happy to share, my experience with the audience, right? So that was the biggest shift for me, that don't be scared of reaching out to people. you might get rejected, right?
[00:22:35] that's a possibility. and it could be bad timing as well, right? Just because you reach out, that doesn't mean that you'll get the guess. and also, I remember getting like this first big guess, he was like the president of the, this company. It was just like, wow, like I felt like an imposter.
[00:22:55] who am I to talk to this person? But [00:23:00] then you start to see yourself in a different lens. Like you're more of a guide, right? You're there to guide the conversation and you're not there for you. you're there for the listeners, you're there for the audience, and hopefully,extract the best nuggets of wisdom from your guests, right?
[00:23:17] so if you shift yourself from the mindset of, Hey, I'm here to serve the guests and the audience, I think that takes a lot of the pressure off, right? Into okay, we're here to help. Yeah.
[00:23:27] David: Yeah. I remember there's, there was a couple times earlier on I remember a conversation and someone was like, you didn't speak like you, you just asked me questions and what ha I feel like I was just blabbing and I was like, I think that's like a little bit of the point is for you to share your ideas, your story and stuff.
[00:23:45] So I, I think she was a little bit, she was cut off guard and then I've learned that, that was, decent. and the general posture of trying to your point around being the guide, being, in service [00:24:00] of the conversation, in service, to the audience. and, what do you think that means?
[00:24:04] How you said everyone has like a need to express and share their, like experiences. what do you think that means and is do you think there's anything else that, like knowing that we know that or that you know that and you've shared that with me, what else do you think that we could do because of that?
[00:24:21] Kind of nugget.
[00:24:23] Cesar: Love it David. Great questions.
[00:24:25] I think it means exactly that. I believe that we'll have this need to, whatever we learn, whatever we go through, whatever we experience, we need an outlet, we need something or someone to share it with. And I have an issue with social media cuz I believe it's very superficial, right?
[00:24:47] Like the TikTok and the LinkedIn posts and Twitters and all that. sure you could share it in that way, but I believe that what you're doing specifically, and I wanted to [00:25:00] ask you about this, in, in real life events, in real life podcasting, there's just something different, right? the energy is different and giving people a space where they can share, and not only share right, but sharing.
[00:25:15] Exactly how they feel, what they think, being honest and transparent, which is something that you don't get from social media, right? There's a lot of tactical advice on Twitter, on LinkedIn. Yeah. Which that's part of the reason that sparked this podcast of, I want to go beyond the job titles, like beyond the Labels, I'm here for it.
[00:25:36] who's David? Who's David? The Human, with his, challenges, with his accomplishments, right? It's I wanna dive different into that. I, so going back to your question, so I think it's exactly that. we all have this need, right? Now that doesn't mean that you need to start a podcast or that you should, connected on social.
[00:25:57] Yeah. it could mean that if you have a team, [00:26:00] right? share with them your experiences, be vulnerable. and just go beyond, beyond the tactics of how to reach goals and revenue goals. Yeah,
[00:26:11] David: yeah, totally. I mean, I think there's such an opportunity to be, beyond the job title, but beyond the, to be more human.
[00:26:19] And I think, it seems like you're really been advocating and that, and have really been ex sharing that. And I can imagine and the teams and the like roles that you've had that you're bringing that kind of posture to the workplace and the stuff that you do. And I think like that stuff sends a lot of ripple effects to, I think like a lot of times you don't you don't, maybe sometimes you don't really see it, but you have a Zoom and then you share this thing and then who knows?
[00:26:42] Like that person then, hops on another Zoom and they're still thinking about your conversation or they walk, they talk to their roommates or their friends or they, the local like coffee shop, et cetera. And I think Those are the things that we remember, right? Not necessarily like the tactics.
[00:26:57] And I think there's a famous quote by [00:27:00] Maya Angelou. It's like people don't always remember what you said, but they remember how you made them feel. And I think like being more open and relatable, in the workplace is what people remember.
[00:27:11] Cesar: on that topic, how do you want to be, remember David?
[00:27:14] David: I would like to remember as someone who tried,
[00:27:19] yeah, I think that,until,
[00:27:23] I'd say probably for the last 10 years or so, does it feel like I've really tried, or really put energy towards positive things. and so I wanna keep going with that. And I think those, to your point earlier, we were talking about living to 70, 80, maybe 90, and I think hundreds.
[00:27:40] Yeah, hundreds. Yeah. Who knows these days of technology. but yeah, I think for me it's around, trying and I think the more I think. The more conversations, the more people I talk to, the more people I meet. I think that there's just like more opportunity to try and I think the more that you expand your worldview, the more things and that you find as a way [00:28:00] to contribute and to be helpful and to be active.
[00:28:02] And I think, one of the cool things that I think has happened, starting with these online workshops, in 2018 and then continuing to see that with online communities, there's all these people that are out there that are waiting to have conversations that are waiting to learn.
[00:28:15] They're waiting to learn and grow, but sometimes it just takes your kind of the cold email there, cold tweet that you were talking about. and so yeah, I just wanna keep trying, I think My roommate used to say, you gotta earn your sleep.
[00:28:28] And, or I didn't earn my sleep today. And, I really stuck with me for a while, so I still joke with him about it. But, this idea of did you put in like we were, we know what like a full day looks like and for these days, obviously you're super privileged compared to a lot of other people, but,
[00:28:43] you know what that like full day of like physical labor looks like, what that full day of,playing sports, et cetera, like I remember that a lot, and then just being so tired and you fall asleep. But you can do that similarly, I think with like emotional labor and intellectual labor and,reaching out to people, trying to [00:29:00] hold space for people, trying to be there for people.
[00:29:02] Cesar: Trying to see the other side of whatever's on people's minds or whatever you hear and try to like, connect dots, so yeah, I think I'd wanna be membered as someone who tried. You definitely, not only triumph, but you're succeeding. in being that connector that, that community builder,I've been fascinated following your journey, especially with the live podcast.
[00:29:25] and I wanted to ask you what the difference is that you've noticed? like the biggest difference is be between hosting, in real life podcast versus one that's virtual.
[00:29:39] David: there's a couple different parts to this.
[00:29:40] So there's like the virtual one-on-one, which we're doing here, which is great. There's the in-person one-on-one,that's great too. And then what I've been doing since the summer of 2022, I think I've done 13 or 14. I call 'em like podcast mixers. And,the conversation or the episode is more of a conversation [00:30:00] and it's more of a facilitated experience.
[00:30:03] It's more about a conversation that is relatable to the people that are there. It's more tell me the story about that. Or, trying to pull the audience in and make it really interactive.
[00:30:14] which has its, it has it, its pros and its cons. It's a different, kind of posture or guide,as you were saying. but for me also then goes back to what you were talking about earlier of like, how have I kept going and stuff like that. And I think for me, starting to host these podcast mixers has really improved my workflow.
[00:30:33] I have to schedule and plan farther out. To say, Hey, are you available to come to an apartment in four to five weeks? like it's hard to say, can you come to this thing tomorrow? or next week. Like people are busy and but if it's on Zoom, it's oh yeah, actually like next Friday.
[00:30:47] Yeah, I can hop on Zoom for 30 minutes, but it's a lot more to ask for that. so it's been a lot of, it's the, like the conversation's been good. It's helped my overall workflow and I think like it's a, and one of the lessons and learnings is there is a small shift can [00:31:00] have a big implication and big impact.
[00:31:02] it's helped me in a lot of different ways, but it's also made me more productive and more efficient because I'm planning farther out. it's provided a lot of Ongoing momentum and energy building up to these events.
[00:31:15] cause I've gotta plan, I've gotta start inviting people. I've gotta start, putting together a lot of different things. and then the other episodes it's easier to plan those out or figure out where to try to fit them in if possible. so yeah, it's been an incredible, credible thing and I'd love to see more people do it.
[00:31:30] I think it's, to me it's been a surprise on,the idea that people want to attend these things has just still been a, an aha for me. But, when you look back, I don't know, you, you live in Austin? Yeah. Yeah. So like a lot of places have, a lot of coworking places have shut down, in the last two years.
[00:31:53] A lot of Things that were happening before have shut down. a lot of places that used to host,[00:32:00] shut down. And so we, and and now we're all working from home a lot more. So this idea of having more spaces to like, just gather and,there's less and less of them.
[00:32:09] And so at first I was like, I don't know if anyone would be interested in this. But then I realized like, there's less and less of these things happen. it's been a lucky kind of thing to find something that people are interested in.
[00:32:20] Cesar: Yeah, I'm a big fan of this young format, and it's something that I'm working, I will work myself towards to, because one of the things with podcasts is that, at least from what I've heard, is that, that there isn't that much engagement, like a live engagement from the audience, right?
[00:32:36] it's typically if it's a monologue or if it's a. Interview format.
[00:32:40] David: but the people that are listening to this hello. We wanna hear from you. Reach out to us. Say hello. Yeah. No,
[00:32:45] Cesar: exactly right. So reach out. and the fact that you're doing it live, right? and just creating this community connection, this intimacy.
[00:32:53] I think there's something there. there's a gap, there's a need. this past, I think it was two [00:33:00] weeks ago now, the guys from my first million. Yeah. Did you go? Yeah. they hosted that and event here in Austin. and I was more of a, in the audience just paying attention to how things work,
[00:33:12] and they had this big production and they feel more like celebrities, which they are right in, in, in their own right. But, the thing for me was, That they had a segment where they engage with the audience, right? Yeah. It was like a meet and greet. yeah. And I think that is, I wanna see more of that, right?
[00:33:31] David: you like the meet and greet part more than the actual podcast part? Yes.
[00:33:37] Cesar: Because, and maybe the way you do it is different, right? Because the way you do it is a conversation, right? They did it more of a, it was like just them talking about, their story, which, if you've been following their podcast, like you pre, you're pretty familiar with the story.
[00:33:50] So I thought that kind of felt flat a little bit. but engaging with the audience, right? I think that's where the key is. and I think,I'm betting on that for the future, that we're gonna see podcasts being more, [00:34:00] more engaging, in that regard. Yeah.
[00:34:02] David: I'm here for it. Yeah. the other thing that's interesting
[00:34:04] So during these kind of podcast mixer episodes, I ask a couple questions, but then the audience does, their questions are very interesting compared to my questions. Sometimes they're like very specific and personal. Sometimes they're very like nuanced and detailed.
[00:34:18] And so while, you're creating an arc of this episode, et cetera, like you're following a certain thing, but then when someone else gets the mic, they don't care as much of wait, what's the name of this podcast? wait, what's the main topic that like David's really trying to talk about here?
[00:34:31] It's no, let me tell you, I've got this kind of question. this week someone was like, interviewed a woman who's a poet and someone asked what kind of emotion are you trying to evoke with your poetry? And I asked some personal questions, but that was like a very like, specific type of question that someone else did and someone else was, talked about,how poetry relates to them, et cetera.
[00:34:51] But it's just really interesting then to hear other people's questions. obviously then yeah, shows me my questions are off, but people have [00:35:00] great questions and I think like podcasting and just in general gives people a platform to ask questions. And then also, yeah, it's just really interesting to see other people's questions in this kind of format.
[00:35:10] they have a, they have enough context to know, like enough to be dangerous and then like they ask a really interesting question.
[00:35:17] Cesar: Yeah. You know what's interesting? So I've recorded so far 10 interviews, right? Cause I, I'm like batch recording before officially launching in June.
[00:35:26] And one of the things, I prep for the episode, I to research and I have like a. It's like a structure I wanna follow. Yeah. But man, every time that we start off, with a question or two, and then my struggle is with listening and the con the conversation being organic, but also okay, now I gotta ask this question or I gotta ask this question.
[00:35:51] I'm there with you. It's always
[00:35:53] David: here, man. I'm there too with you. I'm there to with you right now in this conversation. I'm, and I'm sure that I'm [00:36:00] not helping you. No. Even this episode. Yeah. I'm bouncing around. I, there's been a couple questions that you, I just didn't even answer,
[00:36:07] Cesar: No, but it's always struggle, right?
[00:36:09] but to me, what matters more is that the conversation feels organic. and even if, you know what I, the idea I had is not a hundred percent there, or it takes a detour. I think it's important to be okay with that. That's a. As a creator, as a podcast host. Yeah. because yeah, it doesn't feel forced.
[00:36:30] cuz the opposite of that is, oh, just gonna read from these questions and it feels like an inter very robotic thing, Yeah. So I try to stay away from that, but, yeah, it's always a struggle for me, but you know, the best podcasters are the good listeners and being a good listener means that you ask follow up questions right.
[00:36:49] To, to the topic. Yeah. or to the previous question. So that's what I'm trying to get better at.
[00:36:54] David: You're on your way though, the fact you're thinking about it. Yeah. You're on your way.
[00:36:59] Cesar: [00:37:00] Awesome. so David, you are part of, the chief of staff network, right? Yeah. You're the community, operations manager there. And the chiefest staff role is a very interesting role in, in a startup, right? Because I feel like you're in this middle ground. and I wanted to ask you from your experience,what's one of the misconceptions that people have about the chief of staff role and, for someone that wants to step into the chief of staff role, what would be some of your advice?
[00:37:30] David: Yeah, the misconceptions part is hard because I think there's a lot, like every chief of staff role from what I've gathered, is a little bit different. It's a, it's almost, it's a, it's a collaboration. it's a partnership and a collaboration between two people. So it's hard for me to give some kind of sweeping generalizations on, on kind of the misconceptions.
[00:37:49] But, I think it's a very dynamic role. I think it's a very,it brings different people with different,backgrounds. I think there's a couple different kind of certain kind of [00:38:00] per personas. there's some people that like to just work on like many different things. There's some people that, are using this as like a stepping ground into something, kind of something bigger, like to really learn from a high profile c e o et cetera, to learn about building a business that, you know, without the kind of risk that you were like talking about earlier as well, of having a podcast, but not being the main host.
[00:38:24] so that, that's one thing is that. and then the kind of the advice about how to get a Chief of Staff role is very similar to like my experiences. I think a lot of the, what I hear from people about how they got their chief of staff role usually is some kind of like unique story.
[00:38:42] there's, I've heard someone who like met somebody at a bar and then, they started working with them. my experience have mostly been through relationships and, and so I think like that, like the role itself is very like relational. Like you're very, you're working closely with someone else and so it makes sense for that.
[00:38:59] It also should [00:39:00] come from generally from relationship. I know that's not really The best advice because, people feel like that might be hard to act on or maybe they don't have a big network, et cetera. But you can send cold emails, so you can send, you can reach out to people, you can listen to podcast episodes, follow people's tweets, et cetera.
[00:39:14] Respond to it, try their products, give them feedback. try to assert yourself into the conversation or try to add value ahead of time and then keep showing up and then eventually people will respond. so yeah, I think to get a chief of staff job, I think it is a very like, proactive search, but I think that's a good thing.
[00:39:31] I think it does kinda limit some people that are not as, hungry for the role and hungry for this kind of relationship. And those that put in the work, I think do get the good roles. And then that turns out to be a, a great. Great arrangement. and it's really cool to see where people go after the role too.
[00:39:51] although there's some people think that it's like a stepping stone to something else. I know people that have been chiefs of staff multiple times. but then it's also interesting just to see where [00:40:00] kinda chiefs of staff go after, like their, first chief of staff role. I love it.
[00:40:04] Cesar: I was the chief of staff who is a very small startup, right?
[00:40:07] So I, I don't even know if that qualifies the cheapest staff. but yeah, I did that for a year and a half, and was basically like the c the founder and CEO's right. Hand Yeah. Person. and I transitioned into a sales role. but it's very different, right? Like this, that was a small startup.
[00:40:24] And I, I've heard that, if you're into like a more, hyper growth startup, things might have differently. And what you said about, there's an episode that, that you have actually, I can't remember the name of the guest. but the episode was about, or one of the segments was about you're only 100 emails away from, from the thing that they want.
[00:40:42] and I thought, yeah, it sounds very simple, right? But it's hard to implement. But if you were to send a hundred emails, a hundred messages, to people that are in that industry or in that startup or whatever that thing is, right? you get closer to getting that thing.[00:41:00]
[00:41:00] David: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's,episode with Visa, I think it's just in general, the thesis around like doing a hundred things, do a hundred reps of whatever that thing is, a hundred podcast episodes, a hundred YouTube videos, a hundred cold, emails a hundred. runs a hundred workouts, a hundred pushups, that you'll eventually, you'll learn a lot along the way and you'll become some, something different at the end of it.
[00:41:20] Or if nothing else, you'll become more interesting, I think is what he said on the
[00:41:23] Cesar: episode. Yeah. Yeah. I, big believer of that. So the low of 100, I think it's, it's known on Twitter.
[00:41:29] David: Yeah.
[00:41:31] Cesar: Awesome, David. Well, I wanna do a rapid fire round next. Yes. where, let's do it, super easy. I'll ask you a question and you gimme your top of my answer, or whatever comes to mind.
[00:41:39] Ready? Yeah. I'm in. Let's do it. All right, let's do it. First question, one book that has influenced your life,
[00:41:47] David: your music, and people by Derek Ss. I'm a big
[00:41:51] Cesar: fan of Derek Ss. I, strangely, I just stumbled upon his work, but man i's
[00:41:57] David: So great. Yeah, there's a lot to dig into. [00:42:00]
[00:42:00] Cesar: Lots to dig into. Alright, next question. What are the most worthwhile investments that you've made recently? and it could be financial, it could be a physical thing.
[00:42:08] It could be our, a relationship.
[00:42:10] David: Yeah. I'd still would, I would say like starting a podcast
[00:42:14] that wins trumps everything else and keeping it going.
[00:42:18] Cesar: Yeah. No, definitely. I'm on the red track then. Alright, next question. Quote that you think of often or perhaps your life model that, that you live by.
[00:42:31] David: I think about keep going and, I would probably attribute that to, Seth Godin. Big
[00:42:39] Cesar: fan of Seth.
[00:42:40] All right. Next, next question. In the last 12 months, in the last year,any habit that you have implemented that have a profound impact?
[00:42:50] David: it might be a little bit more than 12 months, but,something that I've done consistently over the last 12 months has been, consuming athletic greens in the morning, every [00:43:00] single morning. Shout out athletic greens.
[00:43:03] Cesar: I also do that, it took me a while to get over the aftertaste. especially for the first week.
[00:43:09] Yeah. But now, oh, your head too nice. Yeah. Typically drink it in the mornings. I found that it just makes me sharper, as opposed to eating like, I know bagel,
[00:43:19] David: nothing against bagels, but,
[00:43:20] Cesar: yeah. Yeah. No. all right, next question. What do you find the most fulfilling about your work?
[00:43:27] I think the most fulfilling thing is just like bringing different people together. Like its kind of, it's a, it's like a, what's that?
[00:43:37] You can say something like that.
[00:43:39] David: You did your research. Ah, yeah. I think it's just like beautiful just to see. Just different people come together and, you've got relationship with all the people, but not everyone has relationship with each other and sometimes feels like magic.
[00:43:57] And,
[00:43:58] Cesar: is there a moment that stands out to [00:44:00] you, when you brought people together and you notice something or someone said something after the fact?
[00:44:05] David: Yeah, I mean the first podcast mixer,that one. also then the first, we've been doing these kind of chief of staff summits, the first one in October, 2022.
[00:44:16] That was an ex first time we'd really done like a larger scale gathering. And I remember some chiefs of staff, or I specifically remember one, but there was a couple. But I remember one conversation when someone said, I really liked this one session. This was really great. I'm gonna bring this into my own company's kind of offsites, leadership retreats, et cetera.
[00:44:40] And I hadn't done anything like that. And, we just designed this thing and then, tried, I mean, there's tons of imposter syndrome. but, we didn't know. And, yeah, when that person said that, it was like, wow, this was, that was really meaningful. Love
[00:44:56] Cesar: that. And last question to, to wrap up.
[00:44:59] what would [00:45:00] be one of your takeaways from the episode, for people in terms of their career, in terms of their creative projects? what would be something that you wanna leave the audience with?
[00:45:10] David: Yeah. I think, a lot of, going back to trying and stuff, I think a lot of it comes down to you gotta pick yourself and,For me with the podcast, it's every week is picking myself and picking my, investing into my own personal body of work.
[00:45:24] And it's really fulfilling and it's really great to have full creative control and to feel like you're learning and growing and building something, even if it's doesn't meet the expectations of what other people have, but just like doing it for yourself, is really empowering. And, I think I would love to see more people, try personal projects and take them seriously.
[00:45:47] I think taking a personal project seriously,isn't a, an incredible feeling and there is a little bit of there's some ups and downs that we were talking about, but I think once you get to the other side or get to some over some humps,[00:46:00] it's some really great stuff. So I would encourage people to.
[00:46:05] especially in the last couple months, we've continued to see just like companies that are just, not being as human and are just like, doing what's in the best interest for their company in their bottom line, which is not, is at odds of the humans, the people that are behind, that are in those roles,
[00:46:20] Cesar: So I think picking yourself and taking your own body of work seriously will continue to help you, navigate uncertainty and will help you lead to future opportunities and fulfillment and great conversations, Well, I'm a product of your work, right? So I'm taking this creative project seriously.
[00:46:40] Yeah. And thanks for being the advocate that all of us need. when it comes to getting started, whether a podcast or whether something creative, that your body of work, right? That's gonna have a legacy, I think it's important. and yeah, take it seriously, right? Because. You only get one chance at this thing called life.
[00:46:57] So
[00:46:58] David: is that the quote Amada that you [00:47:00] think of? Huh?
[00:47:02] Cesar: One of them? Yeah.
[00:47:04] But when I used to work in travel it, my, the motto I had accidentally, it was, it's all about the experience. I like that. Yeah. Cuz something happened on the trip and something that was supposed to happen didn't happen. and my way of ease, the burden was, Hey guys, it's all about the experience.
[00:47:24] So that, that stuck and yeah. and what that means to me is you take it, the ups and downs, it's all about the experience, so that's what that means. But yeah. I love it. Cool. Awesome David. Well thanks so much for coming on the show, for sharing your journey with us.
[00:47:40] Or inspiring me to start this podcast, this project that I've been wanting to, to start it for years. But, finally pull the trigger thanks to your body of work. yeah, what's the best way for people to connect and to reach out to
[00:47:53] David: you? Well, first thanks. This was so fun to, to chat and,talk about podcasting on a podcast with another [00:48:00] podcaster.
[00:48:00] And, I know that sounds meta, but it's, to me, it sounds great. and, best ways to stay in touch, Twitter, Instagram, Twitter's, David Naski, Instagram, I should, probably should change the handle, but it's David Nbbs. and then I've been really, actually really enjoying writing on CK recently, so I've moved over there and I've got a.
[00:48:21] CK newsletter called Portfolio Career that I send out every two weeks. And, that's been a lot of fun and I'm trying to invest into that. and if you're interested in starting a podcast, and then you can find that on my website, portfolio career podcast.com/course. And I know I've been rambling now here, so I'm just gonna stop, but you can find me.
[00:48:42] I'm out there if you need to find me. I, it shouldn't be
[00:48:44] Cesar: too hard. We'll make sure to add it to the show notes. And, some, something that, another creative shared with me yesterday actually, and she's part of this first series of episodes, was that if you want to, the best way to get a hold of a creator is subscribe to their work.
[00:48:59] [00:49:00] if they have a newsletter, if they have, a podcast, become part of their. Circle. and I thought that was, huh. That's sounds like logical, but I guess a lot of people don't do that.
[00:49:11] David: Yeah. Well, the other thing, is try to connect with that creator in an other medium that when they're, where they're popular.
[00:49:22] So if you, I don't like, let's say to a famous YouTuber, if you try to like, comment on their YouTube videos and say will you come on their podcast? will you come on my podcast? They're not gonna see that. if they have a small Instagram account and like you could DM them and they're probably gonna see it and,you'll stand out from the noise there.
[00:49:44] Cesar: that's smart. Awesome day. Well, thanks so much for, yeah, thanks so much for coming on the show and yeah. I'll love to do another episode down the road.
[00:49:52] David: Yeah, thanks for having me. Looking forward to it.
[00:49:54] Cesar: [00:50:00] all right. I hope you enjoyed this episode and thank you so much for listening all the way through. I appreciate you. And I hope that you get some valuable information that you can apply to our personal and professional life. If this story resonated with you and you would like to support the podcast.
[00:50:18] Please make sure to subscribe. So you don't miss out on any future episodes. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I appreciate you. And I look forward to serving you in the next episode.