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Every Monday Evening at 8pm Eastern Time, the W3GMS/R Crew get together on the repeater at 146.985Mhz and discuss technical questions and sometimes do lessons related to Ham Radio for newer Operators to learn from experienced Elmers. The Workbench was set up to be a safe place for any technical questions to get asked and good answers to be given.
Good evening my fellow Ham-Americans. Welcome
to the 985 workbench. I'm Chuck and my call
is NA3CW, tonight's host for the workbench.
I'm located in Parksburg, Pennsylvania. We
meet every Monday at 8 p.m. on the W3GMS Parksburg
repeater at 146.985 megahertz on your FM dial.
The PL tone to access the repeater is 100 hertz.
To those who have tone squelch on receive,
lucky you, the repeater transmits a squelch
tone of 94.8 hertz. Newcomers are very welcome.
We encourage all stations to check in. Take
a look at the repeater website located at www.w3gmsrepeater.com.
has lots of information including technical
articles, pictures of 985 users in action,
and repeater etiquette and history. Please be
aware that on occasion the repeater experiences
intermod interference. Please run maximum power
or be prepared to check in digitally through
EchoLink or All-Star. We want to hear you. To
be able to use EchoLink or All-Star on 985
you need to register with us. Directions for
doing so could be found on the website w3gmsrepeater.com.
Also when intermod is present before starting
a transmission Before starting a long transmission,
give a short call. Am I getting in OK? Once
the host confirms that, then you can share
your longer comments. Here on the workbench,
we focus on answering general questions of
radio theory and operation. Additionally, we
invite each station to briefly comment on
your amateur radio activity in the past week.
When checking in, please indicate if you have
a question for the workbench. If you don't have
a question. still check in. After all stations
have checked in, we will first share what we've
done this past week using a roundtable format.
Please write down the call of the station that
checks in right after you. When you have finished
your comments, turn the mic over to that station.
Once we have all made our comments, we will
start question and answer portion of the workbench
operating as a directed net. I will call on
a station that indicated having a question and
then for stations who wish to respond to that
question.
Wait to be recognized by net control, me, before
beginning a transmission. This helps us handle
the questions efficiently and keeps the net
running smoothly. At times, it helps for
two stations to pass the mic back and forth
to help clarify the situation and pass information.
Feel free to do that as needed, then pass it
back to net control. Remember, don't be too
quick to talk. because a couple of seconds before
hitting the prestatox, pause a couple of
seconds before hitting the prestatox.
This is good repeater etiquette and the pauses
are especially helpful to those on All Star
and Echo Link. When you do click the push to
talk button, wait a second before talking.
Click, wait, two, three, talk. We don't want
to miss what you say at first. It takes a
moment for the repeater to process your Pielto.
Also, the repeater has a three minute timer.
If you talk for more than three minutes without
letting up on your mic button, the repeater
completely shuts down until you release your
push to talk switch. So every two to three
minutes, release the mic button for just a moment
like this. Then you can continue. Before
I begin, I want to say thanks to all of our
Workbench hosts. They're the ones who make
this happen. If you may be interested in hosting
Workbench, please contact Jim, AF3Z, or any
of us, and we'll help you get started. Lastly,
please join Bill, KC3OOK, Old Smoothie, this
Thursday at 8 p.m. for the 985 roundtable.
At this time, we're going to start the check-in
process. Remember to indicate if you have a
question for the group. Digital stations using
Echolink are all-star. I will leave long pauses
to make it easier for you to check in. Digital
stations, please check in now. And everybody
else, please be patient till I get back. This
is NH3CW. W1RC, good evening, I have no question.
Whiskey 8 Charlie Romeo Whiskey. No question.
Sounds like that's it. Good evening, Mike.
W1RC in Marblehead, Mass. And CRW8CRW. So
we'll now take RF, or digital stations. Please
call, spread them out a bit. This is NA3CW.
Whiskey Alpha 3, Victor Echo Echo, WA3VEE.
Whiskey 3 Juliet Alpha Mike W3JAM with a query
this evening.
WA3 King Fox Tango WA3KFT John
KC3YSM Steve.
D3SQI, no question.
KC300.
KD3AIS Kilo Delta 3 Alpha India Sierra. This
is Tim with a question.
Okay, that sounds like that's our list. So
here they come and please write down whoever
follows you. W1RC. to W8CRW to W83VE. to
W3JAM. to WA3KFT to KC3YSM to KC3SQI. to
KC3OOK and to KD3AIS. Do we have any other check-ins?
Please call. Milky Alpha Two Juliet Tango
Sierra.
Okay, I got WA2JTF. Anyone else?
Okay, welcome aboard Bob. And you're the tail
gunner, so if nobody else checks in, you'll
send it back to me after your comments. So.
We'll now begin the roundtable session starting
with Mr. Mike. So how was your week in Ham radio?
W1RC. On the workbench, this is NHECW.
This is W1RC. Well, I really haven't done
much this week in ham radio as such.
I I'm busy working my last week of work. will
be...
to June so you know kind of cleaning up from
the last 13 months of work. Once we're out
of it then there'll be plenty of time for Hammering
U and other fun things. So wish you guys
a good time at Steel Day coming up and I'd
like to be down there but not this year but
who knows, maybe next. Over to CR, this is
W1RC.
Mr. Mike and Chuck, thank you for taking the
chair tonight and running the show. This week
in Ham radio, normal 985 activities, Red Rose,
Saturday night simplex net. But the big news
is on Thursday with the storm, I lost my HF
antenna and a bunch of tree branches. So with
that, Ron, pick it up. W-A-3-V-E-E-W-H-C-R-W.
Good to see you. Thanks very much. W-H-E-R-W
in the group. W-A-3-V-E-E. And good evening
to everybody on the net tonight. And also
thanks, Chuck, for being in that control. Excellent.
Well, for field day here. Right now in front
of me I've got a laptop and I want to thank
and publicly acknowledge Scott W3KZG. This
laptop was... destined for the dumpster and
he resuscitated it. It's a IBM ThinkPad
and it is working great. I have the SAT software
running on it right now and I will bring all
this stuff up to the Field Day site and we
should have satellite communications. Just
need working with Corbin to see if he can
get in there and actually operate. not, I'll
fumble through it. I'm not sure if Harvey's
going to be able to make it. He's our expert
on this stuff, but we'll see. But right now
that's the big thing. That and I will be getting
some other logistical things done. Took care
of some paperwork today and got that through
George and Joe. That's great. And so we'll
be able to welcome visitors at the site.
So if anybody is, wants to see what we're up
to and has not had a chance to become involved.
Certainly on Saturday we'll be up there ready
to fire the gun at two o'clock when we actually
start operating on the field day itself. Tomorrow
I hope to get onto QRZ and at least temporarily
chase the Whiskey Rebellion guys off for about
a week or so off W3R on that page and get
our splash up there as well. So between that,
oh and we did get an acknowledgement from another
county commissioner. Standby.
They will not be able to make it, are interested
in future activities that we do. So that's
two commissioners. One confirmed who will be
there, Eric Roe, and Maryam Moskowitz, who's
not able to make it. She's going to be actually
out of the country starting in a couple days.
We're over in Europe for a wedding. So anyway,
all that's very good. And so it should be
a tremendous, tremendous field day, even though
it is blazing hot right now. Stand by. Temperature
is predicted to moderate down to the low to
mid 80s, which should be quite tolerable, especially
if there's a lot less humidity. So let's see.
It goes to Jeff, W3JAM, WA3VE. Okay, Ron,
business. W-A-3-V-E-E-W-3-J-A-M out here sweltering
Studio B this evening. But I'm already soaked,
so I don't care really. It feels good in front
of the fan here. Just finished up with the
quadrupeds for the night and getting ready
to throw in the towel and head in, but I will
stick around. I do have a query this evening,
which I'll... announce it the appropriate time.
my week in amateur radio, by the way, all that
sounds very, very good, Ron, on field day.
And I've been completely absent in any of that
this year. I've put these horses here with
our guests. I've been, let's just say, come
8 o'clock. I'm down hard. Plus, I got sick,
and all the extra work really dragged me down.
I haven't been quite right here for a month
almost. And I'm just trying to claw my way
out of very bad cold and still recovering.
So anyway, fine. As much activity as is possible
when one has to come out in the Studio B in
hot weather and operate, I do manage to check
into the Simplex Net on Saturday night and
have continued to do that. Started checking
in again on the roundtable. Now the choir
is finished, which I very much enjoy doing.
And Central PA Skywarn, I can hit that repeater
in Dauphin County from out here. So very good.
And I have not made more progress on my off-center
FED, working with the chief engineer on a minor
sticking point, which I hope to get approved
here soon, a variance or whatnot put into place
to allow us to proceed with the OCF out here.
But we'll see how that goes. And have not
made any progress on my Centurion amplifier.
What will be a pair of three 500s E's in ground
to grid, but what at the moment is a pair of
four 400s and a missing transformer. And I
do have the transformer, I just need to put
it in. So from Hammond, Peter Dahl replacement.
So anyway, John, over it comes to Delco,
down to Aston she comes. W-A-3-K-F-K-F-T to
take it, W-3-J-A-M. W-A-3-K-F-T. Okadook.
Well, I've been off the air for a few days
since we did not have electricity of any flavor
for three days and an hour. Really quiet around
here. No fans, no lights until I fired up
the generator so I could keep the refrigerator
going and the freezer going. but three days
of feeding the generator, yikes, and that's
the generator we're gonna use for field day,
or at least one of them anyway, so I know it
works. So, oh my goodness sake. And right
along with everything else, the sewer backed
up. So we were taking care of that today.
Not too many radio activities, no electricity
and a back-up sewer. The sewer is cleaned out,
the power is on, so I can play radio again.
KC3YSM, your turn, WA3KFT.
John, WA3KFT, this is KC3YSM and I am glad
your sewer is fixed because that's way worse.
not lose the power. know CR, I saw you on Friday
and you were telling me about the, I guess
the...
regular 985 nets for me, some mobile. baby
That's it. Guys, have a great field day. I'm
not going to be able to be around this.
Thank you very much, Steve, KC3YSM, this is...
UI.
The was doing a fantastic job of keeping the
air conditioning on, keeping the refrigerators
and freezers and lights on. So not as bad
as some around here, but still a lot of
trees down, a lot of garbage and lawn and everything.
So need to get back to putting the final touches
on the mast. Made a trip to Homeless Depot
and got some no-locks for the conduit. Got
a couple more square U-bolts. so that I can
lock the base in a little bit tighter, a
little bit more sturdy. And need to put the
POP-2 on and put an eight-foot piece of strut
across the top. And hopefully I will have
200-foot of Berry Flux here. this week and
that will then give me the ability to take the
two meter down and throw it onto the top of
the tower. getting there, but got a ways to
go yet. So, I'll turn it over to Bill, KC-3,
okay, this is KC-3, SQI.
KC3SQI, KC3OK. Thanks Wayne and Chuck. Thanks
for taking the chair tonight. It's good to
hear everybody on here.
inside temperature here.
It's cooler than...
You're just.
We had a fairly good week in radio this week.
Use the beam.
difference.
Hey, we did it.
Thank you, Bill. This is KD3AIS. was away from
the house for this past week so didn't do much
other than yesterday observing KC3NZT Harvey's
amazing battery backup system to allow him
to keep using radio and other things that we
talked about a little bit on the repeater
today. I do have a question and I will just
give a heads up to Ron, W-A-3-V-E-E, because
I sent you an email with pictures for my question.
I know that is violating our radio communications,
but I think you sit at your desk and are able
to view that in case I'm not able to accurately
describe my question. So with that, I will
turn it over to WA2JTS. This is KD3AIS.
JD3AIS, WA2JTS, and the handle's Bob. This
is my first time on the net here, so don't
be too rough on me. We are in Potsdam, Pennsylvania.
for a long, time. We used to work at same
company. But I do have a question. I didn't
mention that when I signed in, but I'll throw
it out there anyhow. We haven't had, we've
been off HF for quite a while. my one amp
AL-80, when I turn it on, it works and I've
been able to use it. But when I turn it on,
the plate current meter pops up to 50. And
sometimes it slowly backs down and goes down
to zero. by going here at May.
bad meter that's got a dirty movement in there
or something, but that's kind of strange.
It worked fine. I've worked stations with it
and get good reports. Not any problem. But
now it's that little... happening that shouldn't
be happening. So I'll turn it over to Chuck
and A3CW. This is WA2JTS.
Very good, Bob, and again, welcome to the workbench.
And we love questions.
sticky meter maybe. Yeah, welcome to the workbench
and come back early and often. And we've
got the roundtable on Thursday night at eight
and love to hear from you any time in the
middle. Do we have any other, before we move
into the questions, do we have any other check-ins
for the 985 workbench? Please call NA3CW.
AF3Z mobile outside of Lancaster and not much
to report but I am here for a while AF3Z.
K3LH.
Okay, two very good additions, AF3Z Mobile
and Leon AA3LH. So Jim, how was your week
in AMRADIO? 39 eventful, a little bit of CW
and some 9856
AF3Z. Okay, well thank you, this is AA308.
We can have radio.
off there. Too much air conditioning. I have
some excuse, AC feels good. What I did, this
past week, I was on the round table last Monday,
last Tuesday I was on this radio, Wednesday
I wasn't, Thursday I wanted to be on it and
the guys told me they can't hear me. Now that's
strange, you can't hear me on this radio? So
Friday... Friday I decided I'm going to terror
me. Friday, Thursday night, was too dark to
even go out and examine what happened. I know
we had a heavy thunderstorm, so I wasn't sure
my antenna wasn't hit by lightning. So I waited
until Friday after breakfast to come home. The
antenna looked okay, so we started checking
feed line. Now understand, we had like two inches
of rain. in about four hours Thursday night,
Thursday afternoon or Wednesday or Thursday,
whichever day it rains so badly. And I got
water at the coax and the outside end of the,
yeah, the PL end of the coax, say this right.
And I had water in my coax. So we took care
of that and everything appears to be working
and that was what we did. That's what I liked.
to report on that. So if you heard me good,
that's what the problem was. Like last Thursday,
I couldn't check in. Just didn't work. All
right, that's all I have to report. Back to
Chuck. NA 3 CW, A 3 OH.
Well, Leon, congratulations on finding the problem
in Europe. You're banging it, full quieting.
So you absolutely fixed it. And Jim, time
to go home and chill. So we have three questions
tonight, which is pretty good. So before we
get to the questions, we encourage all stations
to make comments, observations, or share experiences.
Don't assume that your level of experience
and knowledge isn't sufficient. We want to hear
from you. We can all learn from each other
and contribute to our discussion. feel free
to pick up the mic and it's time to stump
the chumps. Jeff, you're on. W3JAM. This is
N8RECW. Okay, very good Chuck. I don't think
I'll stump the chumps tonight. is, least I hope
not. By the way, good evening to Bob, WA2JTS.
Uh, Bob, I'm also in Pottstown. I think I heard
you a while ago. If I'm not mistaken, I think
you're off of Schoolhouse Road. I'm off, I'm
on Ellis Woods Road, just past the Township
Building, halfway up the hill. Just past that
is, or halfway down the hill, depending on
perspective. Anyway. good to all and my question
is kind of related to the amplifier that I
did pick up. Joe had alerted me to this. It
was part of that Westchester estate disposition
and it's a 10 tech centurion. I never owned,
I mean obviously I'm very familiar with 10
tech and a lot of their product line, but I
never owned any 10 tech equipment in my amateur
radio career. Just never have. So this Centurion
amplifier is the first. it modified slightly
in the sense that the OM had an outboard power
supply transformer. I think just transformer,
but I don't know, maybe the entire high voltage.
uh... people uh... filtering and rectification
i don't know i i i assume it was just an upward
uh... transformer that he then uh... connected
back into the amplifier anyway i the amplifier
sans uh... sans transformer so no big deal
i just uh... had uh... hammond by way of digikey
produced one for me and that arrived a couple
of weeks ago and uh... Nice piece of iron,
an impressive piece of iron, I'll say that.
So I'm gonna put that in here shortly, but
I was looking at the amplifier itself and
I did not realize that Tentec, and I don't know
whether it was strictly with the Centurion
or any of their amplifiers, did not include
an ALC feedback circuit. So there's no ALC
connection. I've not operated an amplifier
without an ALC connection and I assume that
as long as you're... monitor the ALC level in
your exciter, you should be okay. There should
be any problems with over driving the amplifier.
So therein lies the question, is that in fact
the correct statement if I were to just, let's
say, use that with one of the, and by the way,
I don't plan on using this amplifier with any
of my solid state stuff. That's really targeted
to my Viking Ranger 2, so I can maybe pump up
the juice a bit for AM operation. I don't know,
maybe 300 watts or so. carrier. as long as,
let's talk about SSB or sideband operation,
as long as I keep my transmitter ALC indicator
within bounds, I assume I'll be fine business
with the, with the.
And I don't know, may have time to hang on.
It may have timed the repeater out or I timed
out my time out timer. I have not adjusted
it on the 857D. This is the rig I bought from
Joe. I need to do that. But the question therein
is simply, am I correct if I just keep my exciter
level, ALC level within bounds and I'm driving
at the appropriate power level to drive the
amplifier to full output, whatever that might
be, 65, 80 watts, probably not that much, but
a little bit less. Do I have nothing to worry
about?
Query, Chuck, back to you, W3JAM.
Thanks Jeff, a good and relevant question indeed.
now's the time to hear from you. What say
ye the crowd? Please call NHRECW.
Some of you guys that worked amplifiers, talk
to Jeff. Very good. Just getting ready to
try to forward this email. This is WA3VE. Very
good. Let me just jump in here real quick.
My understanding is exactly that also. What
I try to do here is keep the ALC within bounds
to be able to make sure I don't overdrive the
amplifier. What I do have though here is a
scope that has a little loop that is just
a proximity located loop close to the coax
so that I could take a look at what the waveform
looks like. If looks like I'm clipping, then
I need to back off on the ALC. Jeff, I don't
know if that helps or not, but let me turn
it back to Chuck first.
Thank you, Ron. Do we have any other input?
crickets on the repeater. I'll give mine then.
I've never operated an amplifier with the ALC.
because I would never operate an amplifier
without a scope. That's just, I just don't.
Especially, main reason I got the amplifier
was for AM. And if I was relying on the ALC
in the rig, I would blow the amplifier off
the table because I only have one 3500Z and
it's very easy to drive. So I could badly
overdrive the amplifier without even touching
the ALC in the rig, in the transceiver. The
great arbiter is the scope. One of the fallacies
of ALC is all loop feedback systems take a
finite amount of time to react. when, say you
drive the amplifier hard enough, say into,
let's say you were using an ALC feedback from
the amplifier and I have an ALADB and it's
got ALC set and all that stuff. I could set
it. But say you drive it into overdrive, then
it produces a voltage which goes back into the
transmitter, into the transceiver, which backs
the gain down on the drive signal. Meanwhile,
while in those milliseconds that takes for
that to happen, you're splattering. So to me,
I'd rather just go by the scope. And in your
case, depending on how much drive you can get
out of your exciter, you may have enough drive
to drive the Centurion into clipping, depending
on how you have it loaded. And that's important
too, without overdoing the ALC and the transceiver.
So yeah. It's important that you load the
amplifier heavy enough to cover the maximum
peak of power that you're conceivably going
to hit. if you can get hands on a scope and
make a sensor, just wrap a loop around the
coax, do something to keep an eye on it. That's
the main thing. Then once you get your system
adjusted, and adjust your ALC and adjust this
and that and the other to your scope, then
you could more safely operate without one. But
in my case, especially on AM, it's one of
these things, don't leave home without it. I
won't get on the air with an amplifier without
a scope. Any other comments for Jeff? Please
call NA3CW.
Okay, Jeff, have we beat it to death? Sir,
Chuck, thank you. Very good inputs from both
you and Ron. And certainly for a YAYM operation,
I was thinking that a scope would almost be
mandatory anyway, especially during the, what
I'll call the rehabilitation of my current
Johnson Viking Ranger II from craptacular audio
to something more akin broadcast quality.
I would definitely want to be... monitoring
improvements to the modulated waveform and
I understand the importance of that especially
too in the context of using an external amplifier
with the exciter. So yeah, I was planning for
my AM station to definitely have an inline
means of monitoring, AKA scope, or maybe something
like a field fox if I can get my hands on one.
Use one of those at Lockheed, absolutely loved
it. That's another topic for another day.
But yes, but on sideband I was just looking
to perhaps use it a time or two. I do have
an AL 811. Yeah.
Yeah, it's the 3811.
the heavy model which has four closer to 800
watts peak. This is, I run mine considerably
less, usually around 400 watts when I was using
it anyway and I tend it to be more of a, what
I'll call, because I knew from on-the-air reports
that there was no splattering as long as I
kept my observed ALC characteristics within
range and wasn't driving that M too hard.
E.G. wasn't loading it too heavy. Everything
was fine and dandy and I could be a good old
appliance operator. So very good. I appreciate
the inputs and kind of emphasize the importance
of the scope. put the scope on it as they say
and I definitely will. Thank you all. Back
to you Chuck and I will be in listen mode. I
will offer dumb looks for free and any answers
to any questions if possible but I am in trying
to out in the lights and get back into the
air conditioning because it is sweltering out
here. W3JAM. Thanks, Jeff. And by the way,
you're more likely to splatter if you underload
the amplifier. If you don't have high enough
loading, you'll run out of voltage before you
run out of current. And that clipping of
the plate voltage waveform will cause splatter.
So thank you for all that. And moving on
to Tim, KD3AIS, what is your question, sir?
Thank you, Chuck. NA3CW. is KD3AIS, Tim and
Malbert. My question is with regard to transformers
on power poles and the potential for them to
cause noise on HF. Looking around at power
poles, I know what a traditional transformer
looks like, but not every house has a transformer.
Some of them have smaller things that seem to
be functioning. to step down the power to the
house, but are not transformers and are not
green boxes that are mentioned when I Google
this online. To make this a radio question,
my question is, is it better to live away from
a transformer or away from these other units
that step down the power with regard to noise
on HF? Does it matter?
Thanks Tim, interesting question. Who wants
to be first to respond to Tim? Please call
on A3CW. W83VEE. Tango.
Very good, and with the indulgence of the fine
net control operator, I will turn it directly
over to John. Oh, very good. A couple things
you mentioned there, Tim. I just wanted to
do a minor course correction on two statements
you made. First of all, I know of no house
in existence that runs on the primary power,
which would be something like 2,000. or 7,000
or 4,160 or something like that. So those are
the wires that you see on the, what's called
the cross arm, on the tops of poles. That's
generally a very, very high voltage. And the
reason it's high voltage is because it takes
a lot less current and it feeds an awful
lot of transformers. So that's one thing right
there. The next thing is that, Yes, sooner
or later, every load, house, business, street
lighting, whatever, has got to have some kind
of means to have the voltage step down from
that high voltage I mentioned down to a working
voltage of 240, 120, et cetera. That requires
a transformer. Transformers are the thing
that does the stepping down. They also work
in the other direction, but that's not the
topic here. Or they keep the voltage the same.
That's a whole other, another topic for another
night. But in this case, everything does have
a step-down transformer to get from the higher
voltage to 240 or 120. So these other devices
that you're showing here, and by the way, I
sent I sent this email to everyone that I had
an email for here on the workbench on this
net standby.
for me, had the luxury of having this right
in front of me here on the Shack computer.
So what you're showing here, what Tim is showing
for those of you who cannot display this, he's
showing two photographs. And one is a picture,
the first one is a picture of a cross arm
on a utility pole. not a telephone pole, a utility
pole. And it shows a fuse. And what that
fuse looks like is a, first of all, there's
a connection to a wire, and that's called a
bug. And that bug takes the high voltage,
feeds it through a fuse. And for those of you,
when you do get a chance, if you're not looking
at it now with this photograph, you'll see
like a flanged. like a Y-type looking arrangement.
That's where the blades actually go for this
white cylindrical thing that's vertical in
the photograph across this insulator. That's
the actual fuse. The high voltage comes off
of that and then goes to a feed that goes
underground. There's no transformer in that.
That just is taking the high voltage and feeding
it underground. That's what we have in our
neighborhood. And that feeds a whole bunch
of transformers up and down my street here,
which are on the ground. Those are those green
boxes. So that's high voltage that's being
fed directly underground. The next photograph
does show what's called a distribution transformer.
And in slang, we call those pole pigs. And
that takes the high voltage and definitely steps
it down to the voltage that we use in our
homes. you're seeing here is you're seeing again,
you're seeing a fuse and a connection, a high
voltage connection from the primary wire, what
the utility company calls primary. And that
goes to a fuse. And then it goes through a insulator
on the transformer. Coming out of the transformer,
you see three rather thick black wires. That
is 240 across two of those wires and neutral
in the middle. And that is what's feeding your
house. interference can certainly come from
a partial breakdown anywhere in the system,
primarily of insulators. And what you're hearing
is you're hearing what's called corona that
is radiating RF. And any time you have this
situation, I'll try to wrap this up. Anytime
you have that situation, you basically have
the same technology that Marconi used to do
transmissions in the very early part of the
century of 1900. That was spark gap. So yes,
these things, when they start to get old,
they start to break down, they start to partially
short intermittently. And that's what causes
the Corona that radiates the spark. And that's
what gets into your radio. I hope that's not
too much. John, what did I not say correct?
W-A-3-K-F-T W-A-3-Z-E-E W-A-3-V-E-E, W-A-3-K-F-T.
Well, since we just had no power for over three
days here, I have been spending time out at
the curb talking to the power guys. In my case,
what happened was a tree limb came down on
the high line and... some fuses, but the
tree was still too big and it didn't burn off.
So we spent three days with no electricity until
finally yesterday the crew was out here and
when they, the first thing they did was they
pulled a fuse on the pole hog, that's the
transformer, the round transformer hanging on
a pole hog. And they immediately said, hey,
we can't do anything. We got tree limbs on the
wire. Go call a tree surgeon. So some five
hours later, the tree surgeon shows up and
climbs the tree and trims his way up the tree
and clears everything out. And then they
replayed, well, they pulled the fuse on purpose.
of the high line out at the street, I'll say
the highway. We're in a, I'll say a residential
area, but it's fed from a highway. So they pulled
that, that killed everybody. And after the
tree surgeon got done and what have you, they
put the fuse back at the highway. Then they
came back to our backyard and put the fuse
back in. And the transformer was good, so
they didn't have to replace that. Transformers
usually don't go bad. They're in service for
30 or 40 years. They do get changed, and the
reason they change them... because of age
and because they're not big enough. So they'll
put a larger transformer in. The high line
on the cross arm typically is in the world
at 2,000 volts. The transformer takes at 2,000
volts, well, 2,000 volts to ground. is a center
tap winding and the end to end is your 230
volts and the center to one end, the center
to either end is the 115, 120 and that's the
voltage that goes into your house. Pole hogs
normally don't die. something else happens.
If the power line got struck by lightning or
something like that, it might damage a pull
hog. But otherwise, they survive well. They'll
change them because there's a failure. They
change them because the load... The neighborhood
has gotten too big for the transformer on the
pole. So they'll take the transformer off and
put a bigger one on. Mechanically, you may
not see a difference in size. And I don't have
a feeling for the KVA rating of the transformer.
But being close to the transformer probably
is a good because you don't have the voltage
drop of the line running through the neighborhood.
you're going to be relatively close so your
voltage, if anything, will be a little bit on
the high side. You're not going to have the
IR drop of the wire going through the rest
of the neighborhood and picking up another
10 customers. in terms of noise and so forth,
electrical noise, because you're close to
the transformer, you're not likely to get it.
If you're further away from the transformer,
you may get more electrical noise caused by
other customers using noisy things in their
house. my recommendation is look for a place
where a pole hog is or in some cases in some
of the new developments, the green box sitting
on the ground because they're now putting a
lot of stuff in underground. This is WA-3KFT.
Back to net.
Thank you, John. Do we have any other comments?
KC3SQI. Go ahead Wayne. Thank you, Chuck.
Yeah, as stated by Ron and John, the transformer...
most often is not the problem. The problem more
commonly are the insulators on the poles
or on the transformer because what will happen
is as they get dirty, as they get cracked,
or with expansion contraction there'll be
a gap start between the ceramic and the metal
and it will, as Ron said, start arcing. And
so usually it's an insulator or a stack insulator
that's going to give you more problems than
the transformer itself. And like John said,
the further away from the transformer you get,
the higher the impedance and the more noise
that your neighbors can send down your house.
That helps a little. And back to you, KC-3SQI.
Thank you, Wayne. Any other comments?
is NA3CW? I'll toss in mine. Lightning arresters,
which are kind of ribby things that I think
are usually vertical. One end is grounded, one
end goes to the wires. It's like a long insulator.
They can go bad and make tremendous amounts
of noise. And Joe can tell stories about
lightning arresters. Loose hardware of any
kind can cause arcing. Sometimes if you have,
you know, well by the arcing and then it rains
and the arcing stops, that usually is an indication
of loose hardware because the rain kind of
makes up the connection. So when transformers
let go, it's usually spectacular. I had one
do that right behind me. I was walking on
the college campus and I heard this, phoom,
and the skies lit up and... about three seconds
later the top of that can came down with a
clang, missed me. And the oil was on fire
in the transformer. So usually that is rare,
but when it happens it's usually spectacular.
So it's more mundane stuff, loose hardware,
noisy lightning arresters, dirty insulators
I've seen in seaside environments where they're
actually glowing and you talk about noise.
So do we beat that one to death? And back
to you, Tim. KD3AIS and A3CW.
KD3AIS, thank you everyone for your learned
opinions. I really didn't even know the full
breadth of the question I was asking. So, but
my takeaway is I look out my window at a, a
Polhog, I guess, or a transformer, and I previous
to this call thought that I, that was a bad
place to be. It's not necessarily bad or worse,
but. I actually may be better off on a relative
basis because I'm not 10 houses down the line
with people using noisy things in between me
and my power, if I understand correctly. So
no need to beat it anymore to death. But thank
you and back to Chuck NA3CW. This is KD3AIS.
Thanks Tim, thanks for your question. And
yes, I've often said some of the simplest sounding
questions are the hardest ones to answer. So
that's why I like newbie questions because they
can bring in lots of material. So over to Bob
in Pottstown. Is still with us? WA2JTS, NA3CW.
An A3CW, WA2JTS, real fine, yep, I'm still here.
Okay, well, as I briefly commented, there's
not too much more I can add to what I had said
initially when I came in, but have an AL-80,
and we have not been on the air with that
box, I'll say, for a good five years. and
we moved from East Fallow Field right around
the corner from Joe. We moved from there to
New Holland and was in New Holland for two years
and now we're here in Potsdam and it'll be
three years in October. And this is the first
time since having lived in East Fallow Field
that the AL-80...
Immediately I noticed upon trying to get things.
working that when I turned it on, I knew
I hadn't turned anything on in terms of high
voltage yet. I noticed the plate current meter
was just setting at 50 milliamps. And I thought,
well, that's kind of strange. yet.
noticed it would like to.
remained having it sit there.
Oh, okay. That's interesting. And then after
a little while, it crept up a tiny bit, double
the width of the needle.
I thought, well, okay, let's try and do a very
minor load.
And I put some RF to it, way down about 10 watts,
I think it was, 10, 15 watts. And things
worked, you know. I could tune up. would go
up like this.
get supposed to.
Tune it up.
little
to get a little braver and took it up to 400
watts. Again, the plate current meter is operating
properly. It's moving up and down. I spoke
into the mic finally and you know it got
movement out of it. Everything worked like it's
supposed to. Turned it off for a while, came
back, found a station on 40 meters. was a
small quesadilla going on and I broke into
that and everybody...
They gave me all good reports, nothing sounded
strange or my signal was staying steady, know,
wasn't going up and down and doing squirrely
things. So, I'm sure right now if I went over
and through the switch that it probably would
go up to 50 mils. that I think that it's,
but maybe it is, but I don't know whether...
some kind of current that's making it go up
to 50 mils or what? But that's my question.
So back to you Chuck and A3CW, WA2JTS.
Thank you Bob. Good report there. So do we
have any responses for Bob? Please call NHECW.
John? Question for Bob. The AL-80, that uses
a 3-500, doesn't it? Yes, it does.
I got one sitting on my dining room table.
I haven't put it on the air so I don't have
any experience using one. when they're in
the stand- so you're not transmitting through
it. But it's warmed up and ready to trans...
They can draw a little bit of plate current
because... you have some biasing as part of
it. Some circuits are zero biased,
to look at the schematic to see exactly where
that plate current meter is and to see if the
only thing after the plate current meter is
the plate. Because it could be seeing a little
bit of leakage current or something like that.
The plate current meter is going to be after
the power supply. So... If you had a leaky
capacitor, it would not affect the plate current
meter. So the plate current meter is going to
be, I will say, one terminal directly connected
to the plate of the tube. So there's nothing
in between. And unless the tube is leaky
or something like that in the standby mode,
you should have very, very little or zero
plate current. WA3KFT
Thanks John. Anyone else have a comment?
I'll put in my two cents. I have an AL-80B
and I use it every week. The A, the B, and
the C are all very different amplifiers. More
between the, well there is no AL-80A, there's
the 80, 80A, and 80B. I'll get it right. The
biggest difference is between the 80 and the
80A. The 80A is really a redesign. And the
80A to the B is a number of upgrades, but
essentially the same design. I got uncomfortably
familiar with the A that belonged to Corbin.
It was brought to me in a blown up state
and to a long story short, I fixed it. High
voltage comes on as soon as you turn on the
amplifier. When you turn it on, you hear this
bump. That's high voltage power supply charging
up. So the high voltage is always there. So
it's just a matter of whether the tube is
biased on in its resting position, biased
on, or also if it's driven. There are relays.
is a, again, I don't know the original.
very well. But there is a relay or two inside
and I think it's salient that this, and
confirm with me Bob, this amplifier sat for
a long time not being used. Go ahead. That's
correct. It was in my house, it hadn't been
used for a good five years yet, so no power
had been applied to it at all.
Okay, what I would advise at this point is use
the thing. If you've got slightly tarnished
relays inside, use will take care of that most
likely. Also, if the tube is at least a bit
gassy, that can lead to current flowing when
you don't want it to be. And the way that you
degas a 3-500Z is by making the plate, the
outer part of the tube glow, which means you
have to use it and use it pretty hard and make
it glow. And there's a chemical coating on
the plate called a getter, G-E-T-T-E, our getter,
because it gets, captures, and chemically
holds gas molecules that run into it. But it
only activates if the tube is hot. Smaller
tubes have different kind of getters, but the
3500Z, the getter action is the plate glows
red and it will absorb gases. That's what
it's designed to do. So I would advise, the
thing, excuse me, use the thing, drive it up
into power and I think you may find that
the swirlingness will go away. That's just
a guess. Back to you, Bob. NHRE CW.
NA-3CW-WA2JTS. Okay, we'll find that Chuck.
Yeah, because I have, sitting right next
to it, I have an AL-82 right next to the ADA.
it doesn't do any this silliness at all.
But it was, like I said, I've been here
now for... of only three years in October
and... Took a while getting the house squared
away and.
got around to being able to get my radio equipment
back together again. So that's associated
with an FT-101EE and an old Johnson Viking
Matchbox. So I have three separate stations
here sort of and I can switch.
And so that was the last station set up to
get fired up. And wouldn't you know.
Yeah, it doesn't sound like it's going to be
too big of a problem. And like you say,
just using it could possibly resolve the
Well, we'll say thank you very much and I appreciate
the input and for the other inputs that I got.
Good, good, Bob, and thank you for your question,
and thank you for coming to the workbench.
Do we have any other check-ins, or did any
questions arise in all these exchanges? Please
call on A3CW.
Okay, silence was heard. So thanks to all stations
for checking into the 985 workbench. A big
thank you to Joe, W3GMS, for making the 985
repeater available and maintained for the workbench.
And you are invited to use the repeater often.
Joe really likes that. This is a great way
to show that you appreciate the gift of 985
to the amateur radio community. So finally,
we hope to hear you again Thursday night at
8 p.m. with... Our redoubtable host Bill,
KC3 OK for the roundtable. And this concludes
the workbench for the night. Feel free to stick
around and keep 985 hot. Have a good night.
A great weekend of field day. And this is
NA3CW clear.
N83CW, WA2JTS, are you still there Chuck? I
am just sipping some tea. Where is field day
this year? Is it in the area down near Joe
there or is it up here in this area? Where
is it going to be? near Ludwig's corner, is
the intersection of Route 100 and 401.
No, well, come down 100 quite a bit from here.
So, okay, is it around that firehouse? Is there
a firehouse there? forget. Been a while since
I've been down there. What's, is there a field
associated or nearby there? ...at, excuse me,
there is a storage facility there called Lines,
L-I-N-E-S, Lines Self Storage. It's right next
to the Jeep shop and you go in the driveway
and up the hill, up the hill, keep going uphill
and turning right, turning right, turning right,
till you get to the top where you have to make
a left. And that's where it's going to be.
It's up that hill in the trees. You can't see
it from the road. But you can see the Jeep
shop. and there's a sign there for lines self-storage.
Okay, I think I know where mean now. Okay, real
fine. All right, thanks a lot Chuck. We'll
see you 73s and appreciate the help. An A3CW
WA2JTS clear. Good night, NHRACW clear.
H3CWKC3, okay.
Glendon for punishment sitting there in the
heat.
just dedicated to 98.
where the humidity is in bad Yadda. This was
80.
And Bob, if you're still listening...
did not have to do one thing today. The bolt
holes...
He
and A3CWKC3, okay.
Very good, that's a good one. Make that punch
list get smaller. But yeah, thanks for doing
that and enduring it. I spend most of the day
fussing with a computer for our church. I
got it straightened out. It's an old Dell
all-in-one that we've been using in conjunction
with our PA system, digital mixer. And the
control software that was in it. suddenly refused
to run. And so I cleaned it out and rebooted
the machine and reinstalled it and it would
still refuse to run. It would light up for
about one second and then blink off. If started
again it would light up for about one second
and blink off. And this seems to correspond
with a Microsoft update because it was running
Windows 10. And given that it was running
Windows 10 and Windows 10 is going unsupported
in, I think it's September or October, whatever.
I was always gonna convert that machine to
Linux anyway. So today was the day I converted
it to Linux. And I got it all straightened
out. Everything loads and runs and everything's
hunky-dory, but that was most of my morning.
And then had to do a little shopping. went
out to... pick up a slice of pizza and pick
up some stuff at Walmart and that was my glorious
morning. Siddling with bits and bytes. Back
to you, NHRACW.
KC3CW and KC3O, okay. Well today was a perfect
day to be the inside working on a computer.
That's great you got it worked out. yeah,
as we've talked before, I really am looking
forward to getting Lennox in.
Cool, Micros. really frustrating and all
this game that pops up while you're...
Well, thanks for taking this. here for a hot
evening.
but I just...
for doing that and congrats on getting that
accomplished and I understand you got the bolts
done too, the lock-tighted bolts, so that's
a couple of things off the list. So, hoorah!
Very, very good. And yeah, do you have any Windows
11 machines at the moment? do, my new computer
is Windows 11 and that's what's given me all
the problems. And I have an old inexpensive
one that I just used for Vera FM and the signal...
internet for six months. I'm afraid to do
it. But yeah, have one Windows 11 machine.
figured...
If you liked Windows 10, you'll love Windows
11. It is so.
It's like a...
like a chihuahua that's always biting your ankles.
That program just makes me nuts. I can't do
without Windows for some of the software that
I have, but that doesn't mean I have to let
it online. What I'm going to do, I think I've
said before, I'm going to stick with Windows
10, except I'll just isolate it from the internet.
Because none of the software that I use it
with needs to be connected or updated. It works
fine. So I only have one pure Windows 10 machine.
It's the laptop I have here at the ham station.
They call it a portable workstation. It's
a heavy lumpy thing. It's a really heavy computer.
Old, but good. And what I plan to do on that
is...
Convert it to Linux and then put Windows 10
as a virtual machine on it for when I'm, you
know, for the occasions where I need to run
Windows 10. The rest of the time it's going
to go Linux. So that's going to be my solution.
So 7-3, have a good night and go drink something
cool. But KC-3, okay, NH-3CW.
Sounds good Chuck. Well, just acclimating to
it. It'll get easier as we go. And yeah, I've
got uh... You Good night again.
BCWS.
7-3 Bill, always a pleasure, NHBCWQRT.
KC-3-O-L-K-W-3-J-A-M. W3JAM KC3OOK. Hey Jeff.
Bill, I wanted to ask you, do you know what
the problem might be with your 510? I you
report that you actually had a two-point, a
double failure. The thing we kind of downplayed
statistically, two-point failures, single-point
failure we always dealt with in reliability,
but not two points of failure. At least they
were considered relatively low probability
of occurrence. Sounds like you had the diplexer.
and the 510 both crap out. you have any idea
what the problem is with the 510? Exactly,
not exactly, but I have some data that makes
it look a little abnormal and I'll tell you.
I checked everything. didn't check one. I
replaced each one, then I replaced it with
another barrel, know, multiples, because,
time when I
Okay. to the two meter port and the radio's...
and I went, well, why would that be? I've got...
You know, I've got more path, I've got more
things in the path, why would it go on direct
be slightly not as bad as the other and I didn't
pick up on it. So yeah, it turns out that the
triplexer, when I'm on the Diamond 510, well
I'll put it this way, when I'm on the beam,
this is how I figured it out on Saturday afternoon,
when I'm on the beam with the 9700 going through
the triplexer at 100 watts it bolts it back
to 50. I took the triplexer out, put the coax
right into the beam and I was getting a full
100 watts out. So I carried it back over the
diamond and I found that when I'm on the diamond
through the triplexer it was folding back, 100
was 50, and when I went directly into the radio
100 was 75. So the only thing I can think, break
there, is I know, At least once by accident
I might have gone from a Saturday night on a
Sinplex net over to FT8 and been running 100
watts of digital. In theory that shouldn't hurt
that antenna. I know it's good for 160 watts.
But I don't know. I just don't know or maybe
the combination of the triplexer affected it.
But one thing I'll tell you Jeff is when I put
my antenna analyzer The antenna is resonant
down around 144. When I get up to 146.0, which
should be the center of that antenna, I'm up
to about an S5. I go up to 147 and it goes off
the chart. So long explanation. Back to you,
Jeff. W3JAM, KC30K.
Yeah, okay, Bill, very good. Well, it sounds
like the antenna somehow got detuned. And,
uh, you know, when I first put my 510 together,
I, uh, I was getting all kinds of wonky SWR
readings on it. And, uh, I took it down and
reassembled it. And, uh, I don't know if I
didn't have something physically tightened properly
or what, but, uh... I actually recall it was
a bit of a pain to put together. I redid it
and everything was fine after that and it's
been fine since. Talking about the one on Studio
B, haven't noticed any issues. Nothing seems
to be folding back. yeah, guess the, yeah,
power wise the antenna should handle it. I
know the digital modes are more of a continuous
duty. I I suppose it's possible that that
might have messed up your triplex, right? I've
never used a Plexer with my 9700. I always
had separate feeds for VHF and UHF. I didn't
have anything on 1296. I did buy a TriPlexer.
I did buy a diamond. It's either a diamond or
a comet so that I could actually have all three
bands connected simultaneously via one feed.
And when I rebuild my station, I'll probably
use it unless, of course, I get weird performance
results. in which case I'll promptly discard
it. But yeah, the other thing is there could
be, you know, the thing that always worries
me with the fiberglass antennas is water penetration.
If you get a crack in that fiberglass radome
or maybe something's not sealed quite right,
I I told you I always use like the RTV 102
to seal the joints just so I don't get any
water penetration. But... wondering maybe
if you've got some water penetration that compromised
your antenna. This is only one way to find
out. Take it down, look at it, see what happened,
visually inspect it, see if there's any water
in there or whatnot. well, I'm glad you've...
I'm glad you figured that out because I did
hear you mentioning you were having some issues
and I did, I'll tell you I did hear you quite
well when you were on the beam. Normally out
in Studio B I don't hear you. I don't have the
Yagi here now with the omnidirectional antenna.
I don't hear you typically but when you move
that to the northeast I heard you very well
and I believe I was even hearing you. I think
I heard you say you were rotating it to the
east and I could still hear you. So that antenna
works quite well. the RF up here well enough
to be heard on my 510 at 27 feet. KC-300KW3JAM.
3JAM KZ30K. Yeah, I was real happy with how
it worked and it was interesting study. You
get yours going.
really worried it was the radio, I just feel
so relieved that it's not. Unfortunately, you
know what's... over. I guess I'm going to have
to arrange some time to get a bunch of pizzas.
see if we can get a few people out. Yeah, I'm
pretty sure that's it. really think that's
it. And as far as the sealing it up, I know
what you mean about putting them together.
Unfortunately, I have this long table in the
shop, and you have a coupling with a screw
connector that you have to...
so I can set it under, keep everything in line,
and then...
I am
The only other thing could be is.
base of the antenna. the
So
Okay.
Yeah, okay, Bill. Yeah, I won't keep you. I'm,
uh... I retreated to studio A. I just took
a shower.
Chief Engineer.
like to be operating out in the warm.
Anyway, uh, yeah, that thing is detuned somehow.
The only way to really diagnose it is to, yes,
I know, it's bit of a project to get that
thing down. I mean, I remember looking at it
when it was down, visually inspecting it,
and it looked like it was in perfect condition,
least from what I saw. They give it the fairly
good once over. I recall, I think I departed
shortly after that with Joe and young Luke
for a donut run, as I recall. the raising of
the antenna, but I was definitely there for
the lowering. And your antenna looked like
it was in good shape. yeah, I haven't noticed
anything like that going on with mine yet, not
to say that it won't. I actually just bought
another one of those. I have two of them now.
I haven't assembled it yet, and I'm debating
when I put Studio A back on the air. I was
planning to put another 510 up. and have one
on Studio A would actually be a 40 feet, it
would be a good 13 feet higher than the present
one, which starts to make a lot of difference.
It would be roughly as high as my Yagi, well,
be higher, the top of the antenna would be way
higher than where the Yagi was, so that should
help out quite a bit with some of more marginal
contacts. But I haven't put it together yet,
just because I remember it was kind of a pain
in the neck putting the thing together, and
every time I think about doing it, I... either
have something else to do or frankly I haven't
been feeling well enough to even worry about
it lately so trying to get over this cold I
had. Anyway I just wanted to touch base and
figure out what was going on with your setup
there. My 9700 is QRT at the moment. I've
been strictly operating with the 857D or my
Yehsu 3185 which I really like a lot. That's
the 2 meter ring. with 85 watts in the digital
audio signal processing. has essentially a receive
preamp in there with some audio signal processing
to help with the weak ones. So lots of time
on Simplex, and then I'll flip that on and
it'll do its razzmatazz and I can really pull
the weak ones out. Sometimes I prefer not to
turn on the audio signal processing and just
turn on the preamp. but there's no option
for that in the 3185. You get one, and if you
have the audio signal processing installed,
you get that as well. I think the more expensive
version of that rig, the dual-bander, actually
has the option to turn off the ASP, know, independent
control of each of those functions. And that
would be desirable, but oh well. All right,
all that you can build, and glad to hear
your problem has been diagnosed, and we'll...
We'll see what it takes to get that fixed.
glad the rig, it's not the rig. I agree with
you. KC3, OK, 73 from W3JAM.
Great night, Jeff. Stay cool and hopefully those
horses...
Thank
KC3, OK. This is KC3, EMS.
KC30K, was there another station there?
Hey Bill, this is Kilo Delta 3 Echo Mike Sierra.
83 EMS. I believe it's Chris, correct? Yes
sir, you got it. I was on the starry night
net and I believe you're running a beam antenna,
is that correct?
I was on Saturday night because you might have
heard... The diamond Omni is not working
right now and I did hear you. down everything
I hear. I did hear you there.
Yeah, I checked in with East, because I was
up in Shady Maple. I was actually in his backyard.
I think I was blown away with a 5'9", being
about four miles away. But no, want to tell
you, I actually heard you twice. I heard you
for the first round, the second round. I did
not hear you for the third round.
Okay, I'm trying to think which way I went on
the third round.
I went to west or northwest. I picked up those
guys in Caledonia.
Nice, yeah. Yeah, I was pretty surprised. I
wasn't sure exactly. I know you had mentioned
what direction you're running head towards.
yeah, up around east of Earl there, is the
elevation. I'm not sure exact elevation, but
it is pretty high there. So it's pretty easy
to get out from up there. But yeah, just wanted
to know, didn't hear you on the beam. Like
I said, first two check-ins.
Great, that's great. I appreciate getting the
signal. did it with the beam on the net. It's
not ideal. In the future, the plan is to receive
on the, do the announcements on the Omni and
take the check-ins on the Omni and then respond
on the beam. Because I've got pretty much bearings
for everybody that checks in, just spin it around.
Good to hear you, Chris. I'm glad you enjoyed
it. And yeah, that location up there in East
Earl, that is up there.
Alright, Bill, I'm gonna go 73 here, so uh,
yeah, we'll uh, we'll talk soon. So KT3, you
okay? KT3, EMS.
Good Chris, cool tomorrow. KD3EMS, KC30K, have
73 and I'll...