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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
The 4 Aspects of Adventure and Why We Need It
Jesse French
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Restorative Man podcast. My name is Jesse French and I'm one of the hosts here today and I'm joined by my good friend and co-host Cody Buriff. Cody, how are you, man? Hey, good to be- Yeah, glad you're here. Cody, today we get to unpack a concept that you and I have been able to kind of chew on and riff on over, it feels like a couple of years, which is kind of fun. And so-
Cody Buriff
Good here, good to be with you, Jesse.
Jesse French
Anticipating and looking forward to that. But as we often do, feels like a helpful on ramp to that is to just take the vehicle of story. And so you've got a great one, man. And so I'm going to throw it to you and take us into that fateful day. So there I was. There you were.
Cody Buriff
Alright, Well, it was a couple years ago, my first summer with Restoration Project. I think that was four years ago now. You guys asked me to guide a backpacking trip with fathers and sons. We call that Backcountry Boys. And so I've got this group of six dads and their sons and we're up at 11,000 feet backpacking in the Rocky Mountains. And we start out that day and we can see some potential storm clouds out in the distance.
And you don't want to be at altitude for anybody who's never been in the mountains at altitude, especially in the middle of the day. You don't want to be there when a storm comes through. Like it's kind of dangerous.
Jesse French
Why is that Cody? What's the thinking?
Cody Buriff
Yeah, well, when you're real high, there aren't trees around to who. And so basically, you're the you're the tallest thing around, which means if lightning is striking, you're the target. So.
and
Jesse French
And can you kind of just, I'm just going to interrupt. Can you like see it just like looming and just like slowly or maybe not slowly just like coming closer?
Cody Buriff
I mean, it's catching us. Let's put it that way. We're not out running it. And so, you the sky is getting darker. The clouds are getting angrier. Like you can tell this is not just like, you know, white clouds, puffy clouds. This is a storm coming. Well, it starts raining and we're still probably a mile, mile and a half from our campsite. Starts raining and then you start hearing the thunder.
And I'm trying to figure out like, what do we do? What do you know? Do we stop? Do we get in lightning position? Do we, you know, high tail it and run? Like, what do we do? Well, we decide to stop and try to like sort of take shelter in a low spot and kind of get into lightning position, which lightning position for anybody who's wondering, you put your feet together, you squat down, you get as low as you can. You don't want to be spread out over the ground because lightning will travel through the ground, up one leg, down the other leg. And the farther the distance is, the more energy gets
shot into your body. And so all that to say, I've got all these like dads and kids trying to squat on the ground with their feet together and we're getting rained on and then it starts hailing and it starts out with like, you know, rock salt like hail, you know, and then it grows and grows and within a few minutes we're getting pelted by like quarter sized hail, ping pong ball sized hail.
And usually when that happens, you know, it lasts a minute or two. Yeah. No, like we're squatting there in lightning position and everybody's like run and grab their backpacks to like cover themselves from getting hit by this hail. It goes for 20 minutes of like quarter ping pong ball sized hail coming down on us. And we're all like covered in welts. And then.
Jesse French
Yeah.
Cody Buriff
It starts to decrease, still raining, still some thunder, and I'm looking around and people are kind of freaked out, you know, like wide-eyed, and I run over to this one little group to kind of check on them, and this one guy is like chattering teeth. The ground is white with hail. Everybody is wrenched. The temperature has plummeted like 30 degrees, and we got two guys that are hypothermic, like early stages hypothermic, and
It was chaos. ended up like ripping open a couple little candy bars and shoving them in their mouths because they couldn't even do that. I'm like, chow on this sugar. Like, let's get your blood moving. And basically decided, all right, we just got to like, regardless of thunder, lightning, whatever's happening around us, we just got to get moving and get people warm. so everyone survived. There were some unhappy people. Everybody was a little freaked out, including myself and.
20 minutes of ping pong ball sized hail coming down on you will do that.
Jesse French
As it
Cody Buriff
Absolutely. Now, Jesse, I'm aware that you were actually out in that storm. You didn't get hit with the exact same area of that storm, but you were out in it,
Jesse French
This is true, this is accurate. Yeah, I was maybe, I don't know, three or four miles kind of away from you guys on a different part of the trail. I had seen you guys the night before, which was great. My task for that trip was a pretty fun one. We had the idea for me to bring my horses in for the reason of packing in steaks and a really nice dinner to then surprise you guys, which...
happened the night before you didn't tell the dads and the sons that was happening. And so they rolled up and.
Cody Buriff
It's just so everybody knows, like picture this, you're tired after a day, you roll up on this little spot, nobody knows it's coming, and there's Jesse, freaking cowboy poet, in his cowboy hat with his horses, sitting over this little grill of steaks, and there's cold beers in a like glacier sort of spot. Yeah. was pretty sweet.
Jesse French
snowfield.
That was cool. That was really fun. And part of the reason we did that was because there was another group that was kind of also on the trail the night after you guys, was going to do the same thing for them. And so when the storm rolled in, I had the total luxury of at this point, I already had my tent up. I was kind of in between waiting for the second group to arrive that night or later that afternoon. And I saw the storm roll in same as you and just hunkered in my tent.
And man, it was so I was not hypothermic. was dry, but I was like equally as freaked because, like you had said, it looked like it had snowed four inches, like the ground was pure white. My horses were tied on what's called a high line, which is a big long rope. And I kept peeking my head outside of the tent, certain that they were just going to like completely hit the eject button and like, you know.
Pull the rope down and just adios, right? Because they're just getting pelted. Felt so, so bad. Again, there's no trees around. And so yeah, man, like I stayed dry, but like the fear, the trepidation, the all of that was just like coursing through my brains. And then you walk out, right? Or I walked out of my tent when it ended. It just was like, I wasn't shaking, but you're just in kind of shock, right? Of how just powerful and fast.
this weather event just rolls through, right? And makes you feel real small, real fast.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, totally. It's really interesting, Jesse, that we like to tell stories that involve like chaos. know, yes, they're not perfect. Those are the stories we like to tell.
Jesse French
It's true. It's true. Why is that true, Cody? Why do you think that is true of, I would say, probably all people, most people?
Cody Buriff
Yeah, it's a good question. think we enjoy telling those stories because there are these elements of adventure that speak to our hearts, that shape us as men, as humans. so engaging those pieces of the stories, that's what's worth telling. That's what we want to experience. That's what we want to experience with each other and through each other and in each other. And those are the parts worth telling.
Like if you walk a story where you're like, well, I walked out into my backyard, I looked up at the sky and then I came back inside. Like whatever, you don't tell that story, right? know, it's the one where something ridiculous happened and you survived.
Jesse French
Right, right for sure. Yeah, so that is true Cody and I want to ask you because you've done some really good I think and helpful kind of thinking around Even taking that a step deeper and to say okay There is this natural draw to tell these stories where there's some chaos There's conflict right and I would say that most people are drawn to that but a typical way to that some people can engage that right is like those stories can be shared in the like
one upmanship sort of vein, right? Of like, well, yeah, you had a hell storm there. Well, I, my hell storm was four hours, right? Like, it just, we've all been there, right? With people that just like continually went up and that's not what you're talking about. That's not what we're talking about. When we talk about the importance, I think of actually these spaces is so that our ego can be fed and we can kind of position ourselves higher. What you're saying, Cody is these spaces are important actually because
the space of the venture actually offers certain conditions that are needed for our hearts and for who we are as humans. that right?
Cody Buriff
Absolutely. Yeah, when I think about adventure over the last several years as a thought about adventure, I've kind of narrowed it down to like there are four primary components that define adventure that our souls need. And so I would say as men, really as humanity, but most of our people are listening are men. So as men, we actually need adventure.
to both make us men and keep us men, to bring our hearts to life and transition us, you know, even from, you know, boyhood or even like, you know, being born into a maturity, into a masculinity. And then we needed to keep us there. Like our hearts start to die if we don't have these kind of four components of adventure in our life.
Jesse French
So good. All right. And maybe I might just preface this. When you say adventure, it is a much broader term than like an outdoor sort of epic adventure. Like the story you told the backpacking trip. Yes, that falls within that. But you're viewing the term adventure is like that does not just limited to the outdoor, to the back country, to that type of space. It actually is a wider application of that.
Cody Buriff
Yeah,
I would say definitely because yes, we love to tell the epic stories, the crazy outdoor, the things that would make movies, you know, or storybooks. And I think it does a disservice to the word. Some people might refer to things as like micro adventures. That might be a helpful way to think of it, but I don't even know that they're micro. Some of them are actually far more significant than an outdoor epic crazy.
You know, float plane ends, backcountry ski, whatever thing, you know, they're actually, but they are adventure in the ways that they challenge us. So I think maybe it'd be easier to tease it out as we go through the four components. So the first one that I've kind of identified, I think we've talked about a bunch is the idea of wilderness. Like adventure has to involve wilderness. And really what we mean by wilderness is kind of the.
Unknown spaces, the uncultivated spaces, the forgotten spaces. And yeah, that might mean somewhere back country, you know, no humans been in something crazy undeveloped, right? It could also be spaces in your own heart and your own story that you have forgotten about or have not explored.
It can be skills or places or things that you have not done or seen or acquired or explored yet. There's a whole lot of ways that you can define that, but ultimately wilderness is kind of the category we'll put them all in.
Jesse French
Yeah. And so a space that is unknown, that is unfamiliar, maybe uncultivated is a way to define that. think that's so helpful. There's an author, Belden Lane, who actually talks about this and one of the just great examples he gives, and he's a lover of outdoor spaces, but what he also says to your point around wilderness being unknown is he talks about actually sitting in the waiting room of a hospital. Like as one waits for a diagnosis, as one waits for
news from a surgery, he's like, that is a space of wilderness. This completely unknown, unfamiliar, disorienting type of space that is a wilderness, even though it's in an interior space, right? And so again, very helpful wilderness place that is unknown, unfamiliar, uncultivated, that could be physical or, or not.
Cody Buriff
Yeah,
totally. I'd say like another example maybe. We've talked about the show alone a couple of times. It's funny, but the television show alone where they drop people all by themselves in the middle of nowhere in the wilderness, the physical wilderness, often what actually sends people home when they tap out because they start to experience the wilderness within them. Yeah. And that wilderness drives them out of.
the physical wilderness because they can't handle it anymore.
Jesse French
That's right. That's right. is. I'm alone with who I am with my own thoughts and it is nothing familiar about. Okay. So adventure needs to have this component of wilderness. That's the first aspect of it.
Cody Buriff
Yeah,
so wilderness is first aspect. Second aspect I would say is that it has to involve risk. The possibility of loss, the possibility of death, the possibility of things not working out well, you know, it's basically where that outcome is not guaranteed. The element of risk.
Jesse French
Yeah. Yeah. And so it's something where there are actually stakes to it. Like there is, like you said, the outcome is non-guaranteed and the potential for a negative outcome that is undesirable. yeah, there has to be risk to it.
Cody Buriff
Yeah,
Jesse, I'm curious. I'm going to put you on the spot and ask like, where is a space that you feel like you have had to take risk or you maybe need to take risk or have stepped into it?
Jesse French
Yeah, lots of them. One of them that comes to mind quickly is I think about my job at Restoration Project and have the like total honor of being in a role where I oversee and lead a lights out awesome team of people. And you and I have talked about this before of just like, is such an honor.
And it's like, there's a responsibility to that. Like you're talking about the stewarding of people and their livelihoods and their giftings intersecting with mission. so trying to do that well and to hold that wisely, like that feels really risky. Like there are total stakes to that process of wanting to engage people well and generously and wisely. And I would say for us, right? Like.
That's true of the organization. Like when you think about the story that you gave of leading those dads and those sons, like for sure, one of the elements of risk there and that were like physical safety was that was in question, right? But even the larger container of that trip, right? Like those dads said, Hey, I'm going to bring my son on this trip because I want to usher him into godly manhood. And I'm actually entrusting Cody and restoration project to help that process. And so when you think about the risk, right? Like what an honor.
And also like, that's a weighty thing for a dad to say, I'm going to say yes to this process and trust these guides in the ways that they're going to help steward.
Cody Buriff
Absolutely. Yeah. Now it's interesting, Jesse, even you talking about, you know, doing your job, you know, and stepping into the risky, the weighty space of that. It's like, I'm aware that many of the things that you're doing and that we're doing as a team, like we haven't done before, we're trying new things like there's wilderness in that there's there's risk in that. It's like, man, what if this doesn't work out?
What if people say blah, know, whatever, you know, what if we hurt all of that is risky. And then along the way, you know, to jump just to the third component is there's struggle. Like it's not easy. And I think struggle is like, you know, there can be usually it involves, you know, maybe it's circumstances or climate or, or even people outside of yourself.
Jesse French
people, right?
Cody Buriff
that are either coming against you or just standing in your way, know, obstacles that you have to overcome. But sometimes those obstacles, those adversaries are actually inside us as well. And so obviously there's, there's evil at work, but then I think there's actually sometimes a wrestling of even the different parts of ourselves. Yeah. You know, as maybe we're doing inner work, you know, and so the struggle, the tension is it exists everywhere when you are entering those spaces.
Jesse French
Cody, what was, to kind of flip it back to you, what was some of the struggle, again, in that story when you're getting pelted with hail, obviously one of the struggles is like the physical, like my body's freezing, is also the struggle of like, you're trying to discern what is the wise path, like for sure, the struggle of that. But to your point of what you just said, like what was some of the internal struggle, maybe even a little bit below that for you individually in that moment?
Cody Buriff
Yeah, it's a good question. I think I'm aware of if I can put myself back in that moment for a second. I was afraid, you know, honestly, they don't want to get struck by lightning. I don't like how this feels. And I think there was an awareness like, what are these guests thinking of me as their guide?
You know, some of that kind of stuff. think there's part of me that wanted to like call the trip and say, all right, guys, we're just going to the parking lot. You know, part of me wanted to, you know, I could tell I was afraid. I wasn't totally sure what the right decision was. Like, do we keep going? know, in the midst of this rain, do we stop? Do we get into lightning position? Do we run? Like, I wasn't totally sure what the right call was. And.
Yeah, and even after the fact, it's like we had a dad who was pretty ticked off and all of his stuff was soaking wet, you know, because he hadn't packed it the way we told him to. And he wanted to bail on the trip. And so there's like this like, OK, how do I handle this situation? Well, like with this guy and how do I, you know, hope I don't screw this up? Yeah.
Jesse French
Yes.
Yeah, it's really good that you highlight that because I think there can be a little bit of an assumption, at least in my mind, of which even saying this feels like, dude, that's totally Pollyanna and rose-colored sunglasses, but it actually lives in my mind of kind of this mentality that says, like, man, when struggle hits, it means that, like, blatant mistake has happened. And that could be true, right? That's possible. And what also could be true is, like,
And think what you're getting at is like in adventure in these places where there is risk, where it is unfamiliar, like struggle will be inherent that will be unavoidable. Even if you make kind of the best decisions that you can write, even as if you do it as well as you can, whatever that even means. The struggle is unavoidable. And so the contending the wrestling that happens actually is a sign of this is we're actually in the space of adventure now. And it's more of a reality and less of some sort of.
perfect world where there is no struggle and all the right decisions get made and there's no, there's no tension.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, totally. Well, and I'm aware, Jesse, when I think about these first three specifically, the wilderness, the risk and the struggle. the unknown forgotten spaces, the possibility of loss, the tension and struggle and fighting. We try to avoid that. Yes. As men, as much as we can. Our brains are wired to try to avoid it, to make life as easy as possible. What do you think happens?
when we cut those things out of our life, what happens to our souls?
Jesse French
man, I mean I think the short answer, the first thing that comes to mind is we're unable to change. Like growth becomes not possible. Like those categories that you talked about, like the unknown of wilderness, the high stakes of risk, the reality of struggle, like I would say those are the conditions that growth and transformation actually happen. That actually the...
the Spirit of God intersects and uses those spaces and meets us in those spaces to allow transformation. know, there's, think Richard Roar says like, we're really only changed by two things. It's either great love or great suffering. So like those are the spaces. And so I think when we cut those three things off in our life, like, and you could actually give the definition, right? Like something that is not growing is actually dying. So like what happens to our souls if it's not changing and growing, like then our souls begin to.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, there's totally there's like a decay that starts to happen. Yeah, when I look around and I'm guilty of this as anybody, right? When I when I look around, I see us as humanity as men. You know, we enjoy adventure, but we're afraid to live it. And so we try to like.
Jesse French
word.
Cody Buriff
absorb it a little bit or vicariously experience it through movies or video games or books or whatever. that's not all bad. That's actually, there's really a lot of goodness in the like holding of the stories and, know, leaning from that. But, you know, we also try to keep ourselves safe. You know, the like safety first thing of like, we're going to stay on our nice put together life. We're not going to step out into places we don't understand.
We're not gonna take the risk. We don't wanna struggle. We want it easy. We want the air conditioning, you know. Even in our souls, we're not gonna ask the hard questions. We're not gonna have the hard conversations with other humans, with the people we love. Like, at end of the day, like, yeah, if we don't do that, we just start to die. We start to wither, and our souls just wither. And so I think we absolutely need
wilderness, the risk, and the struggle just to stay alive.
Jesse French
Yeah, but I think we totally do. I think part of our reluctance, think maybe to step into that is yes, those things like unknown risk and struggle feel like those are challenging. Those are not easy, right? But it also comes from the when we view the outcome, the desired outcome of experience, when we view that only through a lens of it needs to be the epic fish story. It needs to be the epic adventure that can then one up the next person like
When we view the story as only something that has, you know, incredible success, or even if the success is like, it was just, you know, amazingly risky, like we lose, we short circuit the ability like for transformation. Right. And so how many stories do we tell of like, Hey, here's the adventure that I went on that ended really poorly. Actually, like the stakes were there, the risk was engaged, the struggle. And like the outcome was this guy was super pissed.
And you know, like I disappointed this person. Like we don't like to tell those. And yet if we actually viewed it towards what if the question was, how are we formed by that and how are we changed by that? Suddenly the outcome or the objective, the result of that experience feels far different and far more important.
Cody Buriff
Totally. Yeah, I feel like, you know, real adventure happens. It's like when we know things might break, when they might fail, we go anyway. You know, we're entering the, you know, struggle is not a detour from the adventure. Like it's where we're formed within it. And if all we're doing is going after like adventure for adventure's sake, like we're not actually living the adventure.
You know, if you're only going to cool spots, you can take Instagram photos of yourself so that you can prove to everybody that you are adventurous. It's not actually adventure. That's for sure. And so it's not healing your soul. It's not helping you grow as a human. It's actually helping kill you.
Jesse French
Yeah, yeah, well said. Cody, what's the fourth one? The last piece of-
Cody Buriff
Yeah, the last one is glory. And what I mean by that, like glory has to be experienced or will be experienced. I don't think it has to be. It just will be. part of it. And that glory could be like, you know, the rainbow after the storm that's like over these epic mountains and you know, whatever, right? There's the glory in the created world around us. There is the glory in a great outcome or sometimes often.
Frankly, the glory is a lot harder to Maybe it's not going to be seen until maybe even our next life, but it may be the glory in rediscovering or discovering something about yourself, something about who God is. so naming that is pretty important and is a major part of adventure.
Jesse French
I think it actually is, and wiser people could say more, but I think it is a revelation of who God is, right? Of like, in me, in the other people that I'm with, in creation, like there is a deeper sense of the goodness of God, right? Whether that's experienced through the wisdom and tenderness and compassion from someone else, whether it's through just the miraculous physical beauty of creation, like glory is a representation of the mysterious, wonderful goodness of God, right?
Cody Buriff
Good.
Jesse French
And that feels far deeper than like, it a good trip. Like, check out my cool Instagram picture, right? Like, that was pretty, right? Or it was fun. Like none of those words, that might be true, but none of those words like actually get at, no, there is rich, rich goodness that was actually present.
Cody Buriff
Totally. Okay, Jesse, I want to ask you what's an example or two of adventure that is not the like epic outdoorsy, like just kind of everyday life micro adventure, however you want to think of it. It involves these four components just to help guys wrap their head around the idea.
Jesse French
So yeah, I may have talked about this or alluded to it recently, but the one that comes to mind is my stinking sprinklers in my backyard. This past weekend, like I spent multiple hours trying to fix this one zone that has like just was terrible weak pressure. And the reason why that is that it actually checks all of these boxes. So like for me, very much wilderness, like
Very unknown. All of my sprinkler knowledge is through the old YouTube and like a ton of mistakes made. I have no no formal or even observational training from anyone. So there's that is completely unknown. So it feels like I'm just waiting my way through the dark there. Like the risk is for me and I was even feeling some of this like in the middle of it is it feels risky because number one failure is possible.
actually there's more stories of me not fixing it than there are of me fixing it. But even below that, it's risky because the stakes are like, I want to be perceived as someone who is competent, who can like be semi handy and troubleshoot and be independent. And so, so much of Saturday where I just like dug up this huge patch of my lawn and did not make any progress, all of my ideas for what the problem was were untrue, was like pointing to the, you're,
aspirational image of that guy, you're not that guy. And so that feels like the risky, and there's lots of reasons why that's true in my life. And then getting to the next piece of that internal struggle of, yes, the struggle of I can't actually find the stinking problem here, but even more the surfacing of like, okay, and if you can't fix it, what is still true about you? Like that's actually the deeper struggle, right? Of to like actually sit in the, you didn't fix it.
It was not solved. You can't have the like sweet brag of like, this is what it was. And so how do you answer the question and who are you and how are you like that internal struggle was super real. And so then, and then maybe the last one of, I was thinking about it this morning, the glory piece, Morgan Snyder has offered some really, I think helpful language in a really simple prayer around just like asking God to father us to like, when we come to the end of our ropes to say like,
Even though we don't, but like, Lord, father me, give me like the wisdom, the provision that you know that I need, like guide me in that. And there was, there was a moment, like, as I have 12 feet of exposed sprinkler line in my yard as a mess was like, I don't know what to do here. Like I am out of clever options. God like father me in this. And felt like in some sweet ways, like that actually happened. And so even in that context of practical mundane sprinklers, there was the sense of like,
being guided in some of that. so, so I would say like, that's not 10,000 feet. That's not the Grand Canyon rafting, but like that actually was, was some of the adventure.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, you totally. You stepped into the wilderness. You had no idea what you were getting yourself into. But you knew there was a problem to solve and you stepped in knowing that you might not actually get it fixed or you might break it worse or spend a lot of money or whatever and then still have to hire somebody. Right. Yeah. The struggle. I don't know how many times you went to the hardware store. It's usually my struggle. But then like if you hadn't been in that spot in those spaces, you would not have experienced the glory.
the fathering, right? For sure. For sure. So good.
Jesse French
Yeah. Cody, there's this great, great quote that I love so much that I think speaks to what your imitation is when we think about adventure through the containing of these four different components and such a deeper view than that, than just the like notch on your belt, cool story to tell Instagram picture. And it comes from the guy who founded the Patagonia clothing brand, Yvonne Chouinard. And he tells the story.
Cody Buriff
I know we often at the end of some of our trips we take a few minutes before we you know get off the trail and we invite people to think about their trip and usually you know when people after an adventure like that or an experience like that you know if they're going to tell stories you know or people are gonna ask them about it they're gonna what'd you do you know what was what was awesome about that you know what's your highlight what's the story and I know we typically invite people
to think through it a little differently. We asked them to answer the question to think about what did this trip mean? So not what did you do? That's cool. But like, what did it mean? And I think, you know, I've heard you say this in the past. I don't remember who you quoted or whatever it was. You're a man of many quotes, as everybody can tell at this point in the podcast. If we don't process an experience,
Help me out. What's the...
you reflect on it. And so I guess maybe the question that we leave our people with, I know on our experiences is what did it mean? Like reflect on it? What was the glory? What was the wilderness, the risk, the struggle and the glory that you encountered? Why did that matter? Yes.
I just want to encourage everybody one more time. We've said this a couple of times, but again, we talk about adventure as these big epic things, but adventure in real life, experiencing those four components, wilderness, risk, struggle, glory, like that can happen when you're applying for a new job, when you're asking a girl out on a date, when you are stepping into some house project that you have no idea what you're doing.
There are micro adventures, adventure type things that you can experience in your day to day life, know, weekly, daily probably. And so maybe start thinking about what's actually happening around you. Maybe even start out thinking about what are you avoiding and why, and give yourself permission to experience it as an adventure.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, Jesse, thank you for this conversation. Thanks for even just thinking through the four concepts with me around adventure and chatting through it a bit. For everyone who's listening, yeah, it's been fun.
Thanks everybody.