Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
How to navigate the beginners mind and what you can do to prepare for a psychedelic therapy session, the aftercare and integration of walking in this world after your experience.
The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
Take a moment.
Imagine.
A place in time.
When you were younger.
Where you were developing
your core beliefs.
Experiencing things that
may be misunderstood.
Or learning to understand.
Your childlike behaviors.
Your expression.
You're wonder.
Your ah,
In this moment.
I invite you.
To take your adult self.
Back.
To that time.
Fostering a connection to your childlike.
Adolescents youthful self.
And in that moment.
Find a deeper connection to yourself.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly
dose of the psychedelic.
Psychologist where I invite my
guests to share stories about.
About their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction.
To severe depression.
To finding wholeness
and spiritual emergence.
Today's podcast.
You're going to hear
from one of my guests.
Who is exploring.
Connecting.
With their younger self.
Finding a deeper sense of
wholeness within the experience.
Working with psilocybin.
And honoring The beginner's mind Today,
we have Tom joining us and a wonderful
spirit, but I've been working with
recently for the last couple of months.
And today we're going to talk a
little bit about his psychedelic
experiences and Tom, welcome.
Thank you.
Tell me a little bit about what
psychedelics means to you today.
I think, um, no, I think that,
psychedelics right now, I mean,
honestly the big word for me.
Integration.
Um, not, not, maybe not even knowing that
integration in, psychedelic therapy has a
specific meaning, but I'm thinking of it
in terms of, bringing all of the elements
of my, um, wife, I guess, together, as a.
You know, as, as opposed to having
sort of siloed existence at work
and siloed existence of maybe at
home and, you know, on my own.
So, it's not just the integration
of the psychedelic experience, but
it's really the integration of.
Everything like everything
about the, I love that.
And don't forget, I will pay you for
that endorsement of integration, but
to get, to get back to the truth in
that is what I'm hearing you say.
And if I would ask a deeper question
is what does it look like to
integrate and not keep it siloed?
What have you been doing to know this work
relational and your own personal story?
Well, I mean, I think that, you
know, there were some, there were
some profiling, experiences during,
the psychedelic journey for me.
And a lot of them maybe are related
to this, this idea of, Oh, the
touchstone, it was kind of like
a surprising image for me, but,
shouldn't have been, could you paint
the picture of your experience yeah.
yeah, sure.
So, at least in this particular, part of
it, there was a, I was definitely working
through, a part of a journey that was.
About me.
Like I had this very, very clear visual
image of me as I, as a young boy, you
know, maybe five or six years old standing
in front of the house that I grew up in.
And, so there was, there was a, you
know, a feeling of loneliness, that
was there, which was, Uh, something
that I can certainly identify with,
although, I haven't thought about that
for a long time, but then there was
this idea of this, touchstone of this.
Uh, it was like, it was
like a physical, um, stone.
It was like a physical object, and that.
It carried some meaning of going literally
going back from this 55 year old man
and going back, it felt like a time
travel sort of a thing and touching
this stone and it created this, this
opportunity to sort of move or maybe,
or maybe, Change path, maybe a little
bit, but it was, to me since that
experience, I've felt like a lot of it
was about this idea of integration of
having this place to go back to that.
I could, you know, where maybe it
was, I don't know whether it was.
a particularly comfortable
or supported part of my life.
And I could touch that.
And then, you know, sort of this,
you know, opportunity sort of to
have this integrated life sort of
unfolded and love that I love that.
You are new to psychedelics.
Correct.
And these sessions that you and I have
been talking about and preparatory for
your work and the integration of your
work, can you provide a little bit
of a picture of what you are using?
What drew you to psychedelics?
Yeah, so, my, the, the journey was,
I used, um, suicide bun and it was,
I don't know, it was, you know, a
little bit of a combination of you
know, like seeking kind of a thing.
So I have.
You know, working with
psychotherapists for years.
And so this is sort of an added, this
was sort of added and there was certain
intrigued around it because of some,
people who are close to me in my life.
Who've also been thinking
about it and, you know, reading
about it and the, the sort of.
Um, opportunity.
In my particular case where I felt
kind of locked in to, uh, of state
where I was, where I had this sort of
disconnect between, this very intellectual
thinking brain and feeling body, and
wanting to investigate this, this idea.
Psych, you know, like medicine might
be able to unlock some of that or maybe
unstick some of that, inability to
go from intellectual to body feeling.
And so, you know, I had
done a lot of reading.
I was, you know, felt
comfortable enough to sort of
understand, you know, safety and.
You know, uh, find ways to find
a practitioner and, it all came
together, in a, beautiful, but, you
know, sort of emotionally challenging,
um, in a very good way, emotionally
challenging, Speak to me a little bit
about what's coming up emotionally.
Now, as you reflect back, you said
emotionally challenging in a good way.
Can you elaborate on what that
feels like in your body today and
what has been landing for you?
Yeah, I mean, there was, there were parts
of the journey that were, you know, scary
and a little bit dark, but, I think.
In the, and you know, as, as,
I mean, we're still there.
I feel like I'm still working through
some of this integration work, but I
mean, the, the, the idea that, , that,
that the entire experience was.
I felt it was very much body
oriented and I've never had a, I've
never had an experience like that.
And there was, you know, there was
fear and joy and, you know, all sorts
of, you know, anguish and all sorts
of emotions that, came up and it was
all very much, centered somewhere in.
Um, my body and it was, I think even
as I think about it right now, like,
you know, it's like, there's, um,
there's like a very particular feeling.
Um, I don't know, like, like a.
Lively or electric kind
of feeling in the body.
It's like, all I know about your
audience can't see me, but it's like,
I'm shifting around in my chair.
You know what I mean?
There's very much still
a, a body component to it,
even just thinking about it.
Does it resonate with you?
Is it new to you that body sensation?
That movement?
Yeah, it's very new to me., And it
resonates to me in the sense that,
no, I don't want to sound too like
super goal oriented, but I mean,
I think it, it's a suggestion that
this is that what I was after, you
know, the, the, what I had hoped for
in my experience of, of having this.
Body feeling emotion is actually there.
It's actually a realized
that's a really nice thing.
I really appreciate that in that
vulnerability of realizing and
getting what you were looking for.
Does that second guess you, or put
you in a different paradigm of how to
approach psychedelics in the future,
knowing that it was
such a good experience.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it it's interesting
cause I have this, , I have this
expectation, that expectation.
I have this sort of,
knowledge, that I will do that.
I will do it again., but I
don't have a, there's not a.
It doesn't come with a set time or a real
like, impulse to need to do it again.
I feel like after, because I was
anxious before, ingesting the suicide.
And, but I think that, now there's
more of a feeling of., it's, , it's,
it's a little more, like I
understand that I'll get that.
I'll do another one, but there's
no, real drive necessarily.
Like I need to do that tomorrow
to heal, or I need to do that.
It's like, it will come
in its time and its place.
And I don't have any
fear about the journey.
Or any anxiety about the journey.
And it's like a little bit of
something to look forward to.
I love that looking forward to it.
And also the intentional use
of it brings into picture.
Am I using everything I
got from the last session?
And what I'm hearing too, is it
sounds like your body will start
telling you potentially when
it, when it's time to dive in.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think so.
And I think, you know, it's, it's, I've
had this sort of interesting experience
with, when I recall the journey and I,
you know, doing this integration stuff
is that time, this sort of, this sort
of re very linear, Feeling about time
and like storytelling follows this, you
know, like very prescribed path and the
time frame, you know, follows that path.
It's a strange feeling, but time it's
like times time is like on its own.
Like it's not, it's no longer necessarily.
rigidly connected to the experience
and the integration and the it's all
kind of leaks, which is fascinating.
I've never, I've never felt
that before and that looseness.
Do you find confidence in that looseness?
Do you find comfort in that looseness?
Not only around time, but within
your body, within your experience
of walking in this world?
Comfortable.
I think it's, there's a little
bit of, there's like a little, uh,
openness for creativity or something.
It's like, it's like providing a little
bit of space, which is, which is nice.
I mean, I, we didn't go to
who I am a lot, but I, I have.
My background is in engineering,
which is very sort of, you know,
like, , there's a lot of sort of rigid
thinking and maybe sort of, trying to
be rational as opposed to emotional.
And I think that this whole looseness
idea is opening up some space
for some creativity and thinking,
thinking about things differently,
which has been really nice.
Yeah, giving you a different
perspective coming in, in a
way through a different door.
Can you tell me a little bit more about
when you say that, that creativity and
also at the beginning you said, you know,
goal oriented or focused on outcome.
How do you, co-mingle those two ideas
being creative and flowing and free.
And as you said loose, but also there's
constructs that we still have to live by.
Yeah, I don't, it's, it's interesting.
It's, it's a,, that looseness is not,
um, does not feel uncomfortable or scary
knowing that, you know, there's still.
Stuffed stuffed to do.
There's still tasks to complete, and
there's still a whole, uh, life that had
structured with it that, um, you know, I'm
back to in, you know, to a certain sense.
It's just a, it's like finding
a, um, finding out like a
different perspective on,
Meeting those goals, but still
finding the space to, I feel my
way through certain parts of.
I love that because it gives
perspective in the sense that you're
still accountable to yourself.
You're still allowing
yourself to be who you are.
It's not as if you've exiled
who Tom was and yet you've
added and incorporated this new.
Appreciation for looseness,
kindness, compassion, and, you know,
lo and behold, you haven't grown
dreadlocks out in left for Bali yet.
So at the things there is still,
you know, on the table, gainfully
employed doing your thing, right?
Yeah.
And I think like there's
a, there's a piece of it.
Of course.
Then I connect to that.
I talked a little bit about that, you
know, seeing myself as a young boy,
but I think there is a, there is a
feeling of this looseness as being
a little bit more, childlike or a
little bit more playful, you know, a
little, a little bit less, Buttoned
down, you know, adult that's fantastic.
And in a beautiful way.
Yeah.
A playful way.
Yeah.
What what's landed for you?
I know this is new work.
This is a new realm of exploring
healing for you, Tom, what has
been the most awe inspiring aha.
And capsulation of that
suicide and experience.
Um, I mean, I think I used that.
I think I used the term on stock.
And I think the, you know, the, the most
odd, inspiring thing is that, is that
once it's on stock, like it's all there.
Like it's me.
It's not, you know, it's
not like, it's not like a.
It's not like another person or another,
it's just an, it's a, this it's like
being in awe of the fact that this with
this brain and this body have these
maybe other modes of experience that
sort of get tamped down and probably
make a way to sort of unstick that,
that has been the most inspiring thing.
Tom, thank you so much.
It means the world to hear your story,
to support you in integrating for
those that are new to psychedelics
it's vital and imperative.
As Tom mentioned to do the research, find
safety, find confidence, and most of all,
I encourage you all to just be gentle.