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Business is an unlikely hero: a force for good working to solve society's most pressing challenges, while boosting bottom line. This is social purpose at work. And it's a dynamic journey. Purpose 360 is a masterclass in unlocking the power of social purpose to ignite business and social impact. Host Carol Cone brings decades of social impact expertise and a 360-degree view of integrating social purpose into an organization into unfiltered conversations that illuminate today's big challenges and bigger ideas.
Carol Cone:
I'm Carol Cone and welcome to Purpose 360, the podcast that unlocks the power of purpose to ignite business and social impact.
Today I am delighted to have Martin Whittaker, CEO of JUST capital returned to the show. And today he's going to share the 2024 rankings of America's Most JUST companies, the JUST 100. The JUST 100 is the only comprehensive ranking of how today's largest public companies perform on the issues that matter most to Americans today discovered via comprehensive surveying. And what do Americans want to see in JUST business? Well, they want to see businesses paying a fair living wage, creating jobs in the U.S., the integrity of the company's leadership, their transparency, their governance, supporting workforce training and retention, protecting worker health and safety, protecting customer privacy, minimizing pollution and taking other climate change-oriented actions. And as well, taking actions to create a more resilient, safe and healthier community. Welcome back. It's always a joy to have you here.
Martin Whittaker:
It's always a joy to be here, Carol. You ask good questions, tough questions. You keep us honest and you push us, but you push us in the right way. And I know you, yourself, are deeply committed to these things. So yeah, it's great to be here.
Carol Cone:
Well, thank you. Thank you for coming back. And what we'd like to do is for those of you... who don't know you, we just love to have you just talk a little bit about your background and why you love this work that you do.
Martin Whittaker:
Yeah, well, I have spent my whole career pretty much in this intersection of capital and business on the one hand and doing some kind of good in the world on the other. And I've always believed and have tried to drive both at once, business and capital and money as a force for good. And that I came at it initially from a research standpoint, I was part of one of the first ESG rating and ranking companies way back in the early nineties. My stint at Swiss Re was really all about climate and environment and how to use insurance and markets to try and drive change and manage risk.
And then I moved into private equity and venture and wealth advisory, but it's all been connected by this idea that business and money can make the world a better place. And so when I got the chance to be CEO at JUST Capital, when JUST was literally getting off the ground... That was a decade ago, if you can believe it, Carol. This year is our 10th anniversary. I jumped to the chance because it brought together everything that I'd done in my career up until that point. And it gave me the chance to work with some incredible people on what I think is the most important issue of the day, which is how do you get capitalism working for more people?
Carol Cone:
How do you get capitalism working for more people? You've been doing it wonderfully for a decade, and one of the ways you do that is the JUST 100 and the JUST 100 has become such a valued accolade and recognition for companies. They really... And they don't wake up in the morning, CEOs, to win the award. They manage their companies in such a forward thinking and relevant way for the times. And in doing so, they then get recognized with this award.
So can you talk a little bit about how you... The methodology behind, the previous methodology, because I know you've changed a bit. But how you've done it because you have quantified, you have captured what is JUSTness in the minds, of core stakeholders in this country?
Martin Whittaker:
Yep. Well, the methodology is always evolving because we believe in continual improvement, but the framework hasn't changed from the beginning. Which is first of all, we go out and ask the American people what makes a JUST company? What are the issues that comprise JUST business behavior? We do that on a fully representative basis. We're totally objective on aligned politically. We go all around the country. And that public opinion research process is one of the unique things about JUST. We don't define what we measure, the American people.
And so that gives us the framework, if you will, the blueprint for what issues we are going to measure companies against. We also ask the public to weight those issues. So in our final model, different issues have different weights. Those weights all come from the public's preferred or prioritization of those issues. Then our team here then goes and gets the best available public information to measure, analyze and rank the 1000 largest publicly traded companies in America on all of the issues that the American people have told us matter.
And then with the rankings and all the data that goes behind it, we then lift up leadership. America's Most JUST companies in every industry. And then beneath that, we have dozens and dozens and dozens of other winners in different categories on different issues.
And the magic for us, Carol, as you know, is we're not trying to name shame. We're trying to lift up leadership in a trustworthy, accurate way. We want to be the Good Housekeeping seal of approval, if you will. The JD power, the brand you trust to really evaluate which companies are doing the best job on creating value for their various stakeholders. And so that's the model. And increasingly over the years, more and more companies have warmed to that. As you say, they now see that the rankings and the award of the JUST 100, which is the top 100 companies.
And yeah, we rang the closing bell of the NASDAQ yesterday with the number one company, the CEO of the number one company, Antonio Neri, which is Hewlett Packard Enterprise. As I say to the companies, "Our success is really your success." And we want to tell those stories and lift up American business leadership and do that in as powerful and as meaningful a way as we can.
Carol Cone:
And I've seen it over the years. I mean, I saw it in the first few years when I quickly landed on your doorstep 'cause I totally was in alignment with what you were doing. And our clients were skeptical. They said, "Gee, how do I get in it? Is this a pay for play and whatever?" And you have just been so credible and authentic in what you have done. I want you to share with our listeners, how many tens of thousands of citizens have you queried over the last 10 years? It's a big number.
Martin Whittaker:
Well, we're pushing about a hundred seventy-five thousand. We'll do another... I don't know, 5,000, maybe 10,000 this year. So we do that every year. It's not just one survey, it's a sequence of focus groups, and then we do qualitative surveys. We'll sometimes poll on specific high importance issues of the day to understand how did the American people think about this or that.
I think there was a lot of skepticism initially. And quite honestly, Carol, when we did our first few years of surveys and polling, we didn't know what we would find. I had a lot of people in the industry that I know say, "Why would you ask the public? The American people, A, they can't agree on anything and they don't really know much about these issues." And both of those things are wrong.
In fact, we got a huge amount of agreement even across political lines. And the issues that get identified are really, really crucial kitchen table issues that affect American families every day all around the country.
Carol Cone:
Great. What are the core issues? Have they trended? Have they stayed the same? Are there some ones that are really, really poignant today?
Martin Whittaker:
I think what we've seen over the years is that worker related issues have always been at or close to the top. We basically divide 20 separate issues into five categories. And the five categories are how does a trump company treat its workforce? How does the company treat the communities where it operates? That includes supply chains around the world. How do companies treat their customers? How do companies treat the environment? And then shareholders and governance where we're looking for leadership with integrity and ethics and things like that. And good governance including by the way, making money because part of being a JUST company is staying in business and making a profit. And so the American people understand that.
I think what's happened over the years is we've seen worker issues become more and more important. The number one issue this year is pays a fair living wage. And that was number one last year. But its weighting has improved. But what it really means is it's a proxy for how financially vulnerable or well off people think they are. It's a proxy for their financial and economic well-being. Do they feel like they're compensated well, compensated fairly for the work they're doing? And so that's the number one issue. It's getting more and more important.
Number two this year: creates jobs in the US. I think people are worried about the job market and I know the economy's going well and the job market is kind of funky right now, but creating good jobs in the US is also clearly very important. And then number three is not a work-related issue, but it's still a resonant importance, which is basically about accountability. I think we call that accountability to all stakeholders. What people really mean by that is a company that's taken its responsibilities to society seriously and is aware that it needs to be accountable for its impacts on society.
Carol Cone:
And how has governance changed over the years? I'm curious.
Martin Whittaker:
We want companies to be led by people with integrity. It's tough to measure.
But really what we look for are measures of accountability. How is executive compensation handled? How is the board comprised? Do you start to see board representation? We do measure board diversity. So you start to see this issue of accountability show up in governance. And I think along with that comes issues like transparency courting so that people can see and make their own minds up how companies are really doing on issues that they care about. So that has all become much more important and more prominent in the idea of a well-governed company over the years.
Carol Cone:
Great, thank you. Let's talk about HPE, the number one. Why were they number one?
Martin Whittaker:
Well, they're number one because I mean, you can't be number one in our rankings unless you're good at pretty much everything, which HPE is. They're number one in their industry. They're tied first for workers in their industry or they are number one for workers in their industry. The twenty-first overall and number one in their industry for environment. The number one in their industry for communities. They do extraordinarily well on... A couple of things I can point out. One is their apprenticeship programs. Interesting, their CEO, Antonio Neri who was with us yesterday at NASDAQ, he started out as an apprentice.
Carol Cone:
Oh, that's lovely. That's great.
Martin Whittaker:
Yeah, it's an amazing story and I encourage anyone listening to this to go check it out. He's an amazing individual and his leadership is really second to none. He really personifies the idea of a JUST leader, which by the way is I think essential. You got to have CEO leadership on JUST issues. And if you don't have that, it's never really going to permeate a company. But Antonio has really embodied that. HPE also has the best paid maternity and paternity leave in the Russell 1000. They do 26 weeks.
So they have a number, very, very clear targets, which they've hit also for representation and diversity on the management team, the leadership team, the board, by gender, by race. So they're walking the talk. They have an incredibly stringent and aggressive environmental objectives, especially around net zero. And Antonio tells it like it is. They're winning business all around the world because they're seen as a leader on energy efficiency and environmental issues. So all of this relates to their business leadership as well as their leadership in the JUST rankings.
Carol Cone:
I love what you said, and this is really important for our listeners. That the CEO has to lead and shape a JUST company. We always say it can't be laminated, it has to be lived.
Martin Whittaker:
100%. Honestly, I look throughout our JUST 100 and throughout the rankings there's leadership throughout corporate America, doesn't have to be always the CEO. We see leadership at different levels. It tends to land well in the C-suite, you tend to have board members who also care about these issues. And so the totality of that makes for a company whose DNA is sort of committed to being the best they can be as a JUST company.
And when that happens, not only do they start to... We see material change, but also we start to see that translate into business results. And we can talk about this now or later. But all of our JUST indices, the top companies are outperforming the benchmarks in the market. So it shows up again in financial performance.
Carol Cone:
Let's talk about the hard results if we can.
Martin Whittaker:
So the reason I say that is, we've had an index live trading now since December 2016. It's the top half of companies that we rank in every industry. And that index has beaten the Russell 1000 benchmark by over 10%. Since that time, we've had the JUST 100, which is an equal weighted index, the JUST 100 names. And that has beaten the Russell 1000 equal weighted index by 38% since inception. It's up 3% year to date this year.
The worker index... If you just took the companies that lead on the workers also against the Russell 1000 equal weighted index, our worker focused index has beaten that benchmark by over 100% since January 2018. And then the last data point I'll give you is a spread. So the top 10% of companies that we rank has outperformed the bottom 10% since January 2018 by over 75%.
Carol Cone:
Those percentages that you surpass the Russell 1000, we got to get those numbers out there because I am always asked, "Oh, this is great and this is wonderful and whatever." But you are absolutely creating the management guide for greater value to all and greater value even in the equities. So I want to see more of those out there. Of course, we're going to promote them like crazy.
Martin Whittaker:
Thank you.
Carol Cone:
We have a place on our website, it's called the Case for Purpose, and we put all of this data and we're going to put your data right at the top 'cause it's also the most recent, so we love it. Were there any surprises in some of the categories or maybe in the top 10 of the JUST 100 This year?
Martin Whittaker:
We saw semiconductors do really well this year. We saw healthcare companies, too. Actually some of the banks did well, but the semis did well, which is kind of interesting. We looked at the data... Actually, we saw a lot of industry representation, perhaps more industry representation than JUST a hundred than we've had in previous years. So that's good. It means that other companies are from other industries are finding-
Carol Cone:
You're drawing them in. Right.
Martin Whittaker:
Yeah, exactly.
Carol Cone:
Are there any other stories from the 937 companies that were analyzed that really stood out for you?
Martin Whittaker:
I actually went through this year and looked at as many companies that had improved or that had been a number one of standout on individual issues. And I love those nuggets. Now, I love celebrating the JUST 100 and the big companies, but I also love the little nuggets that come out when you get down into the details. I've found that Valvoline, which I don't know much about Valvoline, but turns out within their industry, they're number one on worker advancement and training. I'd love to know how did that happen? Who's behind that? Who are the people benefiting from that? Those kind of stories to me are really what we want to really get into with our work.
Carol Cone:
So to our listeners, I know we're asked all the time, "How do I get either in the JUST 100 or how can I get higher?" So can you share what are the best practices that companies... Besides the fact they need to be well run, we got that. But you need to get the data. And then you also talk to them and I always say, "Hey, you can talk to them." They go, "What? I can talk to them?" So what are the best practices so that your team has the best information, the most accurate information?
Martin Whittaker:
Honestly, we've invested a lot of money over the years and a lot of time over the years, and we have a dedicated team to engage with companies throughout the process. The best thing they can do is just email us or reach out, it's on our website. I think it's corporateengage@justcapital.com.
We're geared up to work with companies. We are bringing to market... You alluded to this earlier where this year we're developing a toolkit [inaudible 00:30:53] companies and so we want to offer a lot more value-added services to companies to help them improve, to help them benchmark themselves, to help them understand what best practice looks like. To look at the ROI of sort of stakeholder performance and lots of other things, too. So all of that's in the works, but really the best thing they can do is just reach out to us.
Carol Cone:
And you respond, which is great. And by the way, this is a little promo for you. JUST capital is a not-for-profit guys. So I always send them some money during the year. If all of us can chip in a little bit more because they are truly... They need our support to do this amazing work.
So what do you think of the term responsible business? I know that some organizations, and I won't name them, are saying, "Look, let's not use the ESG term. Let's use responsible business." What are you thinking about that?
Martin Whittaker:
Well, it's kind of coming full circle for me. I do remember the rise and... I'm not sure if it's fallen yet, but perhaps become out of favor of corporate social responsibility. The idea of responsibility I think is kind of widely appealing. So I can understand why today it would be back en vogue. I don't have a problem with it. I think it begs the question, responsible to whom? And so that's interesting.
I feel like we get caught up so much in labels and acronyms. When you get to the underlying issues and you look at the substance of business performance on the underlying issues, that's really what it's about. So I don't really mind what you call it. I'd rather the world call it JUST business. But that's-
Carol Cone:
There you go.
Martin Whittaker:
So, I'm trying to do that.
Carol Cone:
So with the idea of instead of calling it ESG or responsible business, let's call it JUST business. Then my wish for you is that you partner with a business school or two or three, and there's a whole course of work, body of work called JUST Business and that they rename it.
Martin Whittaker:
Amen, Carol.
Carol Cone:
So five years into the future, we are having this conversation. So what changes or evolutions do you wish you're going to see in five years?
Martin Whittaker:
Well, I'll tell you what's on my mind on that because I've had these conversations recently with our chair, Paul Tudor Jones, about AI. And this idea that AI is going to be a massive accelerant for productivity in America, but also a massive accelerant. It also brings with it a lot of societal risks. It can undermine trust in systems and trust in companies, but it can bring about huge benefits as well. And so how that shakes out, how the wealth that gets created from the deployment of AI over the next five years, that I think is going to have a major impact on what we do.
If it exacerbates inequality, I could see workers being not 40, whatever it is now, 42% of the model. I could see being 80% of the model, I could see being paid fairly and being paid a living wage, not being 17%, but being... I don't know, 30%. So I could see worker related issues becoming a lot important because if it really has a huge negative impact on white collar jobs and disrupts the labor market with a lot of rapid and unforeseen circumstances, I can see that playing out in what this idea of a JUST company even means. So that to me is the biggest influencer of the next five years.
Martin Whittaker:
But the idea of purpose, what do you stand for? Why? What are you trying to achieve? I think that comes down to values. And I like to think that those don't change much. I don't think... I hope my values will be the same five years from now as they are today. And I'm not sure my values today are different from what they were five years ago. So I think that's something enduring and that probably is a source of great hope for the future as well.
Carol Cone:
Love that answer. And I do agree with you that values, we are working with companies today and they're saying, "What is in my soul? What is my character? What are my values? What are my behaviors?" And hopefully AI is not going to tell us how to do that. We have as humans have to embrace that as to your point, transparent and trusted and consistent.
Martin Whittaker:
Absolutely. Absolutely. People have to ask themselves, "Is this serving the purpose? Is this consistent with the values that I hold dear?" And everyone's got to do that, especially leaders today have to do that, look themselves in the mirror and be comfortable with the answer.
Carol Cone:
Ah, comfortable with the answer. So I always like to give the last words to my guest before we close. This has been a great conversation, as it always is with you, my dear friend. So mic's over to you.
Martin Whittaker:
I just want to say thank you, Carol. This is my 10 year anniversary as CEO of JUST. And looking back over that decade, I obviously think things have changed immeasurably over that period of time in social and political terms. But I think this idea of a JUST company or companies that are really actually trying to figure out how they can have a better impact on society, I think that has also come on leaps and bounds. I really do.
There's many reasons to be pessimistic these days and politically, absolutely. There's a lot of divisiveness, but when it comes to business and when it comes to capitalism working for more people, this is a united country. Believe me, you mark my words. This idea of business as a force for good is something that can bring us together, and that's what gets me going every day.
Carol Cone:
I want to thank you Martin Whittaker, CEO, of JUST Capital. Congratulations on your 10th anniversary.
Martin Whittaker:
Thank you, Carol. The pleasure's all mine. It's great to be here, and I know we'll do it again sometime.
Carol Cone:
This podcast was brought to you by some amazing people, and I'd love to thank them. Anne Hundertmark and Kristen Kenney at Carol Cone on Purpose. Pete Wright, and Andy Nelson, our crack production team at True Story FM. And you, our listener, please rate and rank us because we really want to be as high as possible as one of the top business podcasts available. So that we can continue exploring together the importance and the activation of authentic purpose. Thanks so much for listening.
This transcript was exported on Feb 12, 2024 - view latest version here.
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