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The Net Assets podcast delves into the most pressing issues in independent school business and operations. Delivered by NBOA, the only national nonprofit membership association focused exclusively on fostering financial and operational excellence among independent PK-12 schools, each episode is based on a popular article in NBOA’s Net Assets magazine. Chief financial and operational officers alongside other leaders of school business share what inspires and challenges them as well as their approaches to problem solving and innovation. In each lively exchange, host Jeff Shields, NBOA president and CEO, teases out the human stories behind the printed story.
My dad and my grandfather both they served the people from all different walks of life and when I went off to find my own journey I always thought that hey when I show up I wanna show up, and I want all the skills that are required for me to take advantage of the opportunities that came my way.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Net Assets Podcast, the official podcast of MBOA Business Leadership for Independent Schools. I'm your host, Jeff Shields, MBLA President and CEO. And today, I truly am honored to welcome Dallas Joseph, Chief Financial and Operating Officer at Baylor School in Chattanooga, Tennessee. If you haven't been to Chattanooga, you're missing out. Get there.
Speaker 2:Dallas has served Baylor for more than twenty five years and is one of the most respected leaders in independent school business operations. In 2019, Dallas was recognized with the Ken White distinguished business officer award, the highest honor presented by MBLA. He served on the MBLA Board of Directors, serving as board chair from 2011 to 2013, and currently serves as an advisor to MBLA Advisory Services, as well as a mentor for the MBLA Leadership Academy. And we're gonna talk about all of the above today live at the twenty twenty six MBOA Annual Meeting in Orlando, Dallas. Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:So thank you, Jeff. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to sit here and talk with you today. I can't believe it's taken me this long to get you on as a guest.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right.
Speaker 2:You have so many firsts in your resume. You should have been one of my first, but you know what? No time like the present, and I'm really grateful to have you here today. Before we dive in, obviously, you're here because you've been deeply involved with MBUA for decades, with meetings, with conferences, board service, all of it. I'd love for you, because I wasn't there, for you to take me back to your very first NBOA event.
Speaker 2:What stands out about that when you think about it today? Yeah.
Speaker 1:So my very first NBOA event was in New York City. I believe it was probably in 2000, 2001. It was a joint program that was put on by TIAA and NBOA. Oh, wow. It was special because at the time, I was new to the independent school world and I was really trying to reach out to network and meet some colleagues who could tell me more about independent school and the challenges that were there and just trying to meet colleagues that I could connect with.
Speaker 1:And so I remember showing up and there were two young ladies sitting in front of me, Mary Pat Higgins who was at Hockaday I remember her well. And Melissa Ott who was the Greenhill School. They were my first two people that I met. That's the same thing. And I remember both of them asking me, hey.
Speaker 1:How would you like to work in an association? I I really didn't know what they were talking about. Sure. Because at the time, NBOA wasn't a known name to me. For sure.
Speaker 1:And so that was my first introduction to NBOA.
Speaker 2:What did they say to convince you to get involved with NBOA back then?
Speaker 1:The same thing about NBOA. They just asked, hey. Would you be willing to work in an association? Okay. And he said, yes.
Speaker 1:Because I wanted to be involved. I wanted to get to know people in the profession. And so I said, yes. And so later that night, I got invited with a group of people to go out to a bar. Right?
Speaker 1:And the Ken Pills of the world, the Terry Armstrong, the Sarah Daniels, Dee Forgett, Cave Lindsey. What a roster. And then Sam, I didn't know who these people were or what they meant to NBOA. I just knew that I was invited, and so I went out and heard all these people talking, and and now I know what those names mean. And for those of you who listen who don't know those individuals, that those were the standard bearers.
Speaker 1:That's my first NBOA event.
Speaker 2:So many of those things are still true today. The connections, the come out and have a drink with us, the importance of community. But when you think about that time, what changes since then stand out the most? It's 2026 now. What's different about the profession?
Speaker 2:About this meeting, there's some obvious things that are different. But what do you think about? Really thinking about particularly business leaders and CFOs today from that time? I think the association sort of mimics the evolution of the profession. I agree with that a 100%.
Speaker 1:And I think about NBOA. The NBOA that I first got introduced to, I think was tactical. It was an organization that was more so about networking, getting business managers together, setting up ways for us to share information, and probably disseminating tactical information. That was similar to what I found the business role was when I entered into independent school. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because again, was coming from Harry and so I the the organizational structure was different. And I was the VP of Finance company and I was more strategic at that point. The independent school world was just moving from business manager to CFO. Sure. And so it was more tactical.
Speaker 1:Back today when you look at it, it's all about strategic Yes. Initiatives. Right? And the responsibilities of the role of the CFO today is so much greater and so much more risk involved than it was. Sure.
Speaker 1:It's the same thing with NBA. We didn't have the large platform that we have across the independent school world that we have today. We've gone from being a voice to the voice Right. What is us in in independent school.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate that. And thanks to you and so many of the people that you just named that you mentioned during that first meeting. That's just really incredible who you ran into first. Reflecting on your service on the MBOA board, we're gonna fast forward a little bit. What are you most proud of?
Speaker 1:I think I was there when we visioned the idea of moving from a small organization to a much larger national organization and being a definitive voice in the profession. And just thinking about how we could be that strategic partner for at the time they hit the school because that was the big thing back then.
Speaker 2:It's still big today. You would agree relationships break out all.
Speaker 1:Agree. But I do think that we were not talking about governance there. We're just talking about being a strategic partner to the head of school. Today, it's more strategic, not only to the head of school, but to the board of directors as well.
Speaker 2:Yes. And your colleagues on the leadership team? Absolutely. Yeah. Everyone being that strategic partner and really establishing yourself as someone who doesn't just run the expression I hate the most, the back office.
Speaker 2:That's right. Doesn't just run the back office, but is really there to support the entire enterprise and the mission through a financial lens. Now you mentioned, which I didn't know at the time, which is interesting, that you came from higher education to the independent school world. That's great. I came from the CUBO, for folks out there, which was the National Association of College University Business Officers to MBOA.
Speaker 2:For CFOs or COOs, thinking about the transition, I know what I would say is the big difference, but I wanna hear from you. Considering a move from higher education into independent schools, how would you describe the difference in those roles, understanding a lot has changed in both higher ed and independent schools since you came to this space? When I was in higher ed, I didn't necessarily sit and there are a number
Speaker 1:of things that I probably could point out, but I'll go to this particular one. In Harriet, I was not on the financial aid committee. In the independent school world, as a CFO, if you desire, you could be on the financial aid committee. I wanted to be on the financial aid committee. The difference that you get to make by helping families who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford an education Mhmm.
Speaker 1:For their kids is just it's unbelievable. Powerful. It's very It's a powerful thing because you see these kids and whether you are pre k to twelfth grade, Baylor's sixth to twelfth, you help a family at the sixth grade level afford the education. I've been at Baylor long enough now for the students that I helped in 2000. They're 25, 26, 27 years old now.
Speaker 1:They're coming back and they're talking about how I helped them and their family afford a Baylor education that helped them get to their dreams. That's huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And it's so interesting to me because you do have a lot of tenure. You're so well respected, but being on that financial aid committee has always been important to you. And a lot of CFOs didn't see it that way Yeah. But you do for that very reason.
Speaker 2:Is that your advice to other CFOs to be part of that process, get closer to it, and really play a role in it?
Speaker 1:Well, that's the mission of the institution, to help kids make a positive difference in the world. For sure. That's the starting point. Sixth grade Ed Baylor, right, you have the ability to have a lifelong impact on the life of a child and their family. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That that's just one aspect of the difference between higher ed and independent schools. I'd say the other one is just the impact that you can have across the platform. In higher ed, depending on what size institution, most of your colleagues may not even know you, may not have ever met you, but in an independent school where every colleague that you work in, you get to establish friendships and relationships that help you provide the resource and support. Yeah. That whether it's back to the staff or students need to be successful in their institution.
Speaker 1:A lot of times, you don't get to do that in that area.
Speaker 2:I agree with that, and that was my observation. I called it the level of I'll say involvement Yes. That the CFO has at a pre k through 12 independent school is so different than in higher ed. And I would say you mentioned the lives of your colleagues, faculty, and staff. I would say the lives of your students.
Speaker 2:In higher ed, you you're really not involved in the daily space and activity and engagement of students the way I think this job almost demands.
Speaker 1:That's
Speaker 2:right. In pre k through 12. That's right. Now let's take a break to tell you a little bit more about the Campus Services Group. We know that independent school leaders have a lot to focus on.
Speaker 2:The last thing you should worry about is whether your facilities are meeting the mark. Campus Services Group works alongside schools as a partner in the day to day stewardship of the campus. CSG believes the right people make the difference and invests heavily in the teams who maintain the campus experience. From custodial programs to ongoing facility support, Campus Services Group manages the operational details so leadership can stay focused on mission and community. Visit campusservices.com to learn more.
Speaker 2:You've been at this role a long time. Now I'm at MBLA sixteen years today, Dallas. Today, as we're celebrating this. So you remember that? That kid that talked a lot and had a lot of big ideas and a lot of energy and all that.
Speaker 2:Anyway, it's not about me. It's about you. Twenty five years, twenty six years at Baylor School, how do you maintain that role? How do you maintain that level of longevity? Because don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna judge that, but that tenure is gonna be harder and harder to find in business leaders, especially CFOs and COOs, as the years come ahead of us. But what's your secret to longevity at Baylor?
Speaker 1:The team that I've worked with. Yeah. I think it's important for us as leaders to recognize that we have to prepare for when we move on. Yeah. And you do that by hiring a great team that you can give opportunities to take on initiatives so that you don't have to do all the win.
Speaker 1:Right? And when you have a good team behind you, they continue to push you to learn new things and to go places that maybe you didn't think you could go. And so you keep raising the ceiling. Right? Because you bring people in behind you who need more.
Speaker 1:And when you recognize that and you give them more, it means that you are moving up and you're learning and taking on new responsibilities and new roles. I think we talked a little bit about this earlier. I think I've reached that point in my career where, in some ways, I'm second guessing whether or not a twenty six, twenty seven year career is good at one place.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And what do you mean by that? What are you second guessing about it?
Speaker 1:So as you become the institution in place. Yeah. And that's a heavy burden when you are the holder of all of the information. Right? Everybody wants a piece of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You're in every conversation
Speaker 2:Yeah. Every meeting. Or they check-in with you after
Speaker 1:a conversation. Right. Yeah. And your time becomes the institution's time. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You're fighting for that strategic time that you used to have, that you used to guard Yeah. Because you were not in all of the meetings. You were not in all of the phone calls. And, yeah, being refreshed and going off somewhere and starting over where you can let that go and you can really get in to the things that you need to do to keep moving the needle. But once you start making all of the meetings and being in all the conversations, it's it's just a whole lot to move the needle like that for me.
Speaker 2:I often say to myself, why would I go to a different organization and deal with what I don't know? I'd rather stay at this organization, which I happen to love and the members I love, and deal with what I already know Yeah. Has to be had. I wanna talk about a sensitive but important topic. And throughout your career, you've really broken boundaries in independent education.
Speaker 2:Talk about a burden. Right? Talk about a a responsibility that you've I think you've elected to. You can tell me differently, but I think you've elected to being the first person of color to serve as CFO at Baylor, to chair the MBUA board, to receive the Ken White distinguished business officer award. What's it like to be a trailblazer in a profession in this regard, and what has that meant to you personally?
Speaker 1:Well, we've talked a little bit about this before. Growing up in the sixties when I grew up, my grandfather and my dad both owned their own businesses, and I watched how they had to navigate to whether it was to get licenses to run their business or to buy from certain vendors. And it taught me a lot about perseverance and always being prepared. Yeah. And my dad and my grandfather both, they served people from all different walks of life.
Speaker 1:And when I went off to find my own journey, I always thought that, hey, when I show up, I wanna show up, and I want all the skills that are required for me to take advantage of the opportunities that came my way. And we have a saying that you always have to be better than everybody, and so that that was just always there. And so when I had the opportunity as a vice president of finance in the collegiate world to be the first African American or black kind of president to vice president at a Lutheran Finnish College in Michigan. I was prepared. I didn't walk in thinking about that I was the first.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I had a job to do, but also knew that I had to be successful in that role in order for someone else behind me to get an opportunity. Is that a burden? It is. So is working hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But my mom and my dad prepared me for that growing up during the time that I was growing up to say that, hey, once you get these opportunities, you have to be ready for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. When that door opens, when the
Speaker 1:door opens, your job is to be prepared. To be prepared. And to be thinking about the impact that you have will have an opportunity for someone else to walk through that same door. That's right. Keep the doors open by doing your job.
Speaker 1:And so that first one, it was a little scary Right. Because I was more concerned about failing None. Feeling what I should've been thinking about, which was, okay, what do I need to do to get them five years down the road? But after that first year, when I got comfortable and I knew I could I was making a difference, it was a no brainer that, hey. This is right for me and that others behind me will have an opportunity because I'm stepping through this door, and I'm being successful.
Speaker 2:I have to tell you, I obviously have known you since I started at MBUA. For the listeners, Dallas was on my search committee. And one thing I've seen you do is mentor other professionals at the meeting. Yes. Why is that important to you?
Speaker 2:Can you expand on that? Because I you seem to be very actively doing that every time I see you at a gathering like this. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've always been a person who cared about helping others. But that first NBA event where whether it was Sarah Daniel, Katie Lindsey, or Terry Armstrong, Bob Mueller, they didn't know me, but they invited me in to have a conversation for me to learn more about independent schools.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the more I talked with them and met with them at different conferences, it was almost like I owed it back to the profession to help people like people who helped me to get there. That's what it's all about. Still today it's probably one of the lasting things that has never changed about NBOA and that's the help that business officers give to one another.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's in our DNA.
Speaker 1:It's in our DNA we're always willing to share and be helpful to others and so whether it's helping other black professionals in the organization in the NBOA get to positions where they have an opportunity to serve on boards, serve on committees, whether it's reaching out to just any of my colleagues and giving me any advice that I can. That's just something I love to do, it goes back to that that first meeting I had with NBOA. People helped me too. It speaks to your leadership, but
Speaker 2:it really speaks to theirs because they were practicing inclusivity before we even had a name for it Yes. And before it became a thing. And isn't that something? All those many years ago, they saw how important it was to bring someone in especially someone who was unique Yeah. To the community at that time?
Speaker 1:But here's the thing Jeff, I didn't recognize that until after it happened because I remember we were in San Diego for an NBOA meeting and Kate Lindsey, after the dinner, basically said, hey, I think you could hit this organization. I hear you, but I just kept walking. I didn't think twice about it. And years later, I got to thinking about that comment from Katie and how so far out in front of things in BoA was at the time. I'm impressed to hear that actually.
Speaker 1:But it was Katie who based and if Katie I know Katie, you know how she thinks. But, yeah, NBOA was out there in the front.
Speaker 2:Pratt hosting that. The whole diversity issue. That's right. We're running out of time. I could talk to you all day, but I definitely wanna ask you this last question, which is what do you want your legacy to be in the profession, in MBOA, in the community?
Speaker 2:I'll always remember you. You've had a huge impact on my career, but what would you want people to remember about Dallas Joseph? That I was always there to be helpful.
Speaker 1:Wow. I remember a NBAA board member walking up to me several years ago when he was just up and coming in the profession, and he said to me, he said, I'll always remember that you always took time to answer my questions. Whenever I saw you at meetings, you're always readily available. And so for me, I think that's it. Being available for my colleagues, sharing the information that I have to help make them successful, that's what I want to
Speaker 2:be remembered as. And make them feel at home at NBOA and make them feel like they belong there. Yes. Which they did for you. Yes.
Speaker 2:But what do
Speaker 1:I think would be my lasting impact Yes. On NBOA, the association? And what I'm what am I most proud of was serving on the search committee that brought you into NBOA. I'm glad you did. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because when I think about the n b o a today and look, we talked about it, what was the difference? Today is more professional and more strategic than it was when I first had my introduction to n b o a. But you coming into NBOA was the real transition for us in the profession from moving to the tactical to the strategic. When coming from Nakubo Yep. Which I was part of when I was in the hiring role.
Speaker 1:And today, we're talking sixteen, seventeen years later. Yeah. Just look at the growth of the organization, the professionalism of it, the growth of the association team. It's been fantastic. And so my most lasting impact will be your leadership on this impact because I was the person that was handed your search packet.
Speaker 1:That's right. And so that to me, that's probably gonna be my most lasting impact,
Speaker 2:you know. So I never thought about it that way. You're probably the first independent school business officer I actually spoke with directly Yeah. About MBLA. Your respect and your support has been invaluable to me my entire career, and that's all the time we have.
Speaker 2:But I wanna thank you for that, and thank you for joining us today. You're gonna go back to doing what you like to do, which is mentoring in our Leadership Academy program, but I do wanna say thank you for the leadership, the service, the example you've provided to MBOA and to independent schools across the country. To our listeners, if today's conversation resonated with you, I encourage you to get involved with MBOA through learning, volunteering, networking, opportunities that fortify you and strengthen the profession. And remember, MBUA is always your partner in leading the business of independent schools. So until next time, thanks for listening to the Net Assets Podcast.