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The Disability And…Podcast gets right to the heart of some of the most pressing issues in arts, culture and beyond with a series of bold, provocative and insightful interviews with disabled artists, key industry figures and the odd legend. The Disability and…Podcast is currently monthly.
INTRO
Welcome to the Disability And Podcast. Bringing together thoughtful discussion and debate. This month, Mind The Gap’s Associate Producer Paul Wilshaw chats with Ella and Tim Curtis. Ella won a gold medal in cycling at the Berlin 2023 Special Olympic Games. Tim is Ella's coach and also her dad.
PAUL WILSHAW
Hello and welcome to Disability And Podcast. Today I am privileged to be interviewing Tim and Ella Curtis. Ella is a gold medallist from 2023, with the World Championships for the Special Olympic Team, Great Britain team. And Tim is Ella’s coach and also her dad. So, Ella, thank you very much first of all, for coming on to the podcast. I really appreciate it. Can you tell our audience, what are the Special Olympics and the World Championships? Is that different to the Paralympics?
ELLA CURTIS
Yes, it’s different. Special Olympics are learning disability. And my disability.
PAUL WILSHAW
Okay. So it's for learning disabled people, is that correct?
ELLA CURTIS
Yeah
PAUL WILSHAW
Yeah. And like I said, you're part of the Special Olympics GB team, and I saw on the website about you and your journey, which for years it said that you were scared about cycling because you had a fall, and it was thanks to your dad and a Halloween party that got you back on your bike. Can you tell us a bit about that journey?
ELLA CURTIS
Well, I wasn’t involved but were invited to the party and cycling we’re having a party. I dressed up as Zombie. And me and my dad we went round twice in the park.
PAUL WILSHAW
Tim. What actually got you into cycling? Cause I think that's really interesting about how you've become Ella’s coach. So what actually got you into cycling?
TIM CURTIS
Well, my granddad and my dad taught me to cycle when I was a little boy. And I loved cycling. And I've been a road cyclist since I was about 12. So that's when I first got a road bike and learned to ride my bike on the road. I just love the feeling that it gives me.
PAUL WILSHAW
What do you feel about the lack of acknowledgment of the Special Olympics and World Championships on television, compared to the Paralympics?
ELLA CURTIS
Well they showed me on TV. It was amazing.
TIM CURTIS
So it's quite hard for Ella to talk about that Paul, because she's seen herself a lot on TV.
PAUL WILSHAW
Okay. So that might be a bit of me actually not knowing. I know a bit about the Special Olympics, but I don't know much about it. And I was very fortunate to be told about you Ella, and I know that you’re also a Mind The Gapper. That's how I’ve got to know you as well. So you've been on telly quite a bit. How has that been for you?
ELLA CURTIS
It was good, amazing and excited
TIM CURTIS
People recognize you sometimes don’t they Ella, because they've seen you on the telly. Do you remember when we came back from Berlin and we were at Heathrow Airport?
ELLA CURTIS
Yeah.
TIM CURTIS
And you walked up to the Border Force officer with your passport?
ELLA CURTIS
Yeah.
TIM CURTIS
Do you remember what he said to you? You don't remember? I remember, he said I don't need to see your passport. I know who you are. I've seen you on the telly. And he waved through.
PAUL WILSHAW
Now, that is cool. That is really cool that that happened.
TIM CURTIS
But I should say, Paul, I agree with you. There's not enough. There isn't live coverage of Special Olympics on TV. Paralympics is a different category. Yeah.
PAUL WILSHAW
Yeah. And I think that kind of makes me want to know more about the Special Olympics, because I'm like, why shouldn't we be shown on telly? What actually made you want to cycle competitively?
ELLA CURTIS
Ooh I like the medals.
PAUL WILSHAW
You like the medals? I love that answer. That is, like the perfect answer. I love it. That’s brilliant. What is your favourite venue or course to cycle in?
ELLA CURTIS
I prefer Berlin, around the Hamburg gate.
TIM CURTIS
The Brandenburg Gate?
ELLIS CURTIS
The Brandenburg Gate, yeah. I think it's a venue?
TIM CURTIS
Well, it's the main roads in Berlin city centre. So they closed them for us, didn't they for two weeks. Imagine, like closing The Mall in London in front of Buckingham Palace. Because you didn't just ride past the Brandenburg Gate Ella, did you? Although you remember that, you rode past the Bundestag, which is the parliament building in Berlin. All these amazing places that the roads were closed by. Just for you guys.
PAUL WILSHAW
Now that is amazing. You won gold in the 1K race at the World Championship, and what was that experience like for you Ella?
ELLA CURTIS
I was very happy and excited
PAUL WILSHAW
How many people raced in that race?
ELLA CURTIS
I think it's, five
PAUL WILSHAW
Five. So you had five people racing against you, and you won the gold medal?
ELLA CURTIS
Yes.
PAUL WILSHAW
That is great. I actually have here, audience, the gold medals. I can see gold medals. And we're going to get a picture with Ella and Tim later on, with the gold medal on. So that is great.
So this one Ella, is going to be a bit cheeky. What is it like that your dad is also your coach on the GB team and is there any times that you disagree with your dad as a cyclist and coach about how to race?
ELLA CURTIS
Well, I love my dad, because he helps me. Sometimes I go down it wobbling, and I don’t like it wobbling. But my dad makes me do it.
PAUL WILSHAW
And Tim, what is it actually like coaching Ella?
TIM CURTIS
Ella’s a pleasure to coach. Obviously, like anybody, Ella finds it hard sometimes doing some things. What she’s undertaken, the journey she's been on is amazing. From not riding, as you already asked about earlier in the interview, to riding three wheels, riding three wheels to a bronze medal in Abu Dhabi on the formula one track, and then teaching yourself to ride two wheels in lockdown. I didn't teach you. You taught yourself. So Ella’s is a real pleasure to work with. Of course, like she says, she doesn't like downhill or wobbly bits. So sometimes that causes some fuss. Especially if we're on the road riding. But she's also correct, I do say…
ELLA CURTIS
I’m not fussing!
TIM CURTIS
You’re not fussing? But when you do fuss, like she says,
ELLA CURTIS
I go quite er…
TIME CURTIS
It's safer to get our job done isn't it Ella? Safer to finish what we've started?
PAUL WILSHAW
That's great. And you can tell like, that is just beautiful. What was your favourite memories of last year's championships?
ELLA CURTIS
I love my friends in my team, and my coaches
PAUL WILSHAW
And your coaches?
ELLA CURTIS
Yeah.
PAUL WILSHAW
Do you think the Special Olympics and World Championships will ever get on the same level as the Paralympics, in terms of acknowledgment from the public?
ELLA CURTIS
I don't know.
PAUL WILSHAW
You don't know? Perfectly good answer there. I hope it does, because I think, why shouldn't it? But yeah, I think the Channel Four and the BBC need to get their eyes up because we have some real good championships in the team. And I think the BBC, and I always call these people out, so let's get the Special Olympics on the TV because I want to see more of Ella, and I want to see more of the team. And that's one thing we want to see.
ELLA CURTIS
Yes.
PAUL WILSHAW
What are the audiences like at these events? Can you tell me?
ELLA CURTIS
Small crowds of people.
PAUL WILSHAW
So they’re small?
TIM CURTIS
At Berlin, the crowd was bigger than it is when we have our championships in Wyke, isn't it?
ELLA CURTIS
Yeah
TIM CURTIS
But it's still not the same size, is it as the Paralympics or Olympics?
ELLA CURTIS
No, no
TIM CURTIS
But there's quite a lot of people at Berlin. You had your whole family around the course when you were racing
ELLA CURTIS
Yeah.
TIM CURTIS
They spread out around the one kilometre course cheering you on.
ELLA CURTIS
Yay.
TIM CURTIS
Then you couldn't be a lazybones could you? You had to keep peddling.
ELLA CURTIS
I'm not lazy.
TIM CURTIS
No you're not. You're a gold medallist!
PAUL WILSHAW
You’re a gold medallist, that’s certainly not lazy! If anyone say’s that a gold medallist is lazy, they must be wrong. What are your expectations for the coming year Ella?
ELLA CURTIS
I’ll keep on cycling and keep on beating the clock. And do a world race.
PAUL WILSHAW
Do a world race. Tim, we've talked a lot to Ella, now I want to know about you and your journey. How long have you been coaching cycling?
TIM CURTIS
I've been coaching cycling for ten years Paul, officially. I qualified in 2014. That was the year the Tour de France came to Yorkshire. I'm a level two British cycling coach, but I'm also a cycling UK group leader, and that means I can coach competitively to an elite level in a level two environment. And that means essentially that means no cars. But my group ride leader role allows me to be insured and to take people and teach them out on the road. So I combine both those qualifications to do the things that I've been doing for the past ten years.
I've been a road cyclist since I was 12, so that's nearly 40 years of riding a bike on the road.
PAUL WILSHAW
Woah. I remember my time of when I was at school and we had to do cycling. And yeah, I wasn't very good, and I fell off.
TIM CURTIS
Sadly, falling off is part of it, isn’t it Ella?
ELLA CURTIS
Yeah.
TIM CURTIS
It has happened to us. If I didn't have my hat on today, I could show you my scars in my head.
PAUL WILSHAW
You were a coach for the Special Olympics Great Britain team in 2023. What was that experience like for you Tim, and do you coach other people as well as Ella?
TIM CURTIS
In terms of do I coach other people for the Special Olympics Great Britain team, yes. Not as regularly as I coach Ella. In my squad in 2023, there was one other Yorkshire cyclist from Sheffield. But Niall has his own coaching program that he follows. So my role really is to select people that I know about the level of their cycling and where they're at, and select the appropriate events and races for them to race in, but also to encourage them and keep an oversight of them while they're training where they are based. So that meant I had to go visit everybody where they train. The guys in the northwest, up to Scotland, down to the southeast, and our Yorkshire cyclists.
In terms of what's it like being a head coach of any team for the Special Olympics, it's one of the most intense and proud experiences of my whole life. It's intense because I had less than a year to pick that squad. I already know them because I've been in and around Special Olympics cycling for the best part of ten years. So I've seen them at national competitions. I meet them at least once a year in that regard, but still making sure you pick the right people at the right level, that I pick, unlike maybe in Paralympic or Olympic sport category, I pick a range of people with a range of neurodiversity or learning disability, and also a range of ability. We so we have ability ranges within the sport. So Ella’s a category three. But you can also compete at category one. So there are different categories of where you're at in your journey in cycling. So I made sure that I wanted a nice spread. I wanted a mix of male and female cyclists. I had a mix of ages. Our oldest cyclist was 38 and our youngest was 16. Those things are all really important to me and took a long while to develop. And that all started a year out from the actual cycling competition. Then I had to coach them on our own meeting together, at different venues and places, staying together for the weekend, and then also with our joint whole squad team training. And that took up lots of weekends in that year and leading up to the competition. Because it's really important that they're comfortable and confident to perform at their best level and be with us. And I know I did that because each one of them produced personal bests in Berlin, or they got podium places and medals, and for me, those two things are not different. You can only do the best you can do. And that's what I got out of our cyclists. So, I'm really pleased with that impact.
Special Olympics is different again to Paralympics and Olympics in being in terms of being head coach, that it's not just the sport coaching and the event. For 24 hours a day for 21 days in Berlin, I and my two other coaches had full time duty of care of those athletes. So that meant, looking after everyone from morning to nighttime and making sure when people got poorly that they were sorted out, making sure they were eating properly, hygiene was taken care of. So there isn't any rest! So by the time I finished and came back from Berlin, I felt very exhausted. It's a really exhausting process. I'm proud because how many people in the world can say they've ever coached their favourite sport, at a world championship, and on top of that, that I coached those cyclists to their best performance. And that one of them, one of those three gold medallists we had in that squad is my own daughter. It doesn't get any better than that. It was amazing.
PAUL WILSHAW
And I’m interested, because with the Special Olympics, it's for learning disabled people and neurodiverse people. Is there a grade that you have to go to, so how does that work?
TIM CURTIS
I think the first thing to say is that every Special Olympic athlete, I should also say as well, with my hat on as a Special Olympics GB coach, that Special Olympics isn't just what Ella does at elite level - going to a World Games and winning a gold medal. Special Olympics activities happen week in week out, in clubs all over the country and all over the world. And just attending those clubs and doing activity counts as being a special, we refer to our participants as Special Olympics athletes. Even if you've got no ambition to ever go to a World Games, compete at all, just come and train in your sport. That's being a Special Olympic athlete. So you have that level of participation and then you are nominated or you put yourself forward to be a member of the World Games squad at your chosen sport. That requires, to be a Special Olympics athlete, it requires that a relevant professional or person with experience can vouch for your level of intellectual capability or your level of self-awareness and care, and how that might differ from a typically developing person. Those are the criteria about how you get into Special Olympics. Now, of course, we know that that is that isn't the same for everybody. You might have a learning disability that's more profound or less profound than somebody else. But within that then we have categories of competition. And then also on top of that, you might, you might also be born with a physical disability, so that might also affect which kind of category you're placed into for your sport or your performance.
PAUL WILSHAW
How do you think the Special Olympics and World Championships could get the same acknowledgment as the Paralympics?
TIM CURTIS
Crikey. That's a difficult, that is the $21 million question, isn’t it? Literally it's about political will and money. The people in charge, I don't just mean politicians in Westminster, but the people in charge of sport and funding streams in this country need to decide that what Ella does and what all the other athletes do. Like I just said, every single day of the week, different clubs up and down the country, are worthy of recognition and resourcing funding. And until that happens, we're not really going to get to the same level playing field as the Paralympics and the Olympics. Special Olympics is a charity and that already marks it out as different than Paralympics, Special Olympics, The charity status of Special Olympics is something I would like to see change. I would like to see it centrally funded. So Paralympics and Olympics are both funded by Sport England, Sport Wales, Sport Scotland, Sport Northern Ireland and the National Lottery. And so are the athletes and coaches and their whole program, whereas everything we do at Special Olympics, we have to raise money for. Ella and I are wearing some of our Special Olympics branded Great Britain clothing. I won't give the sponsors names, but there are sponsors, that's one way that we have to go round to with a begging bowl to get money, to afford to get our athletes to go and do something amazing, like go and perform in Berlin. So until that changes, I can't see things changing.
I have to give praise where it's due though, Ella did answer her question before about being on TV. They gave Ella and Niall, two Yorkshire athletes who both got gold medals in cycling at the Special Olympics, incredible coverage on mainstream BBC, ITV news. I have friends around the world. I had friends from Grenada and from India telling me that they'd seen Ella on the World Service. Ella and I were talking earlier about her being recognized by the passport control officer. So obviously it's improving, but we haven't got yet you can't watch live stream sport like you can at the Paralympics and like you can at the Olympics. However, again, having said all of that, that only really started changing in London 2012 for Paralympics. And up to that point, I think it might have, I might be correct in saying it was the Beijing Olympics, which was the first where Paralympians had, National Lottery funding, but prior to that they didn't have National Lottery funding either. So at some point we need to get more money into the Special Olympics and the people in charge of who gets the money and who goes on TV need to decide that these guys are worth it.
PAUL WILSHAW
Definitely. And you've said about the Paralympics, so I'm going to go to that next question about the Paralympics. Like you said, the Paralympics did bring up so much acknowledgment and understanding about disabled athletes and people in 2012, do you think a Great Britain Special Olympics would bring better understanding of people with learning disabilities to the general public, and if so, what cities would you like to see host it and have pride in it?
TIM CURTIS
Well I do, do you think that we should host the World Games, Ella?
ELLA CURTIS
Yeah, I will
TIM CURTIS
You do? you think we should? And actually, in the long term, I think that the Special Olympics should happen in the same city and the same country as the first of all the Olympics and then the Paralympics. So in the case of this year, that would be Olympics first in Paris, then the Paralympics in Paris, and then the Special Olympics. And the reasons why I think that is because they've already invested massively in the stadiums, the infrastructure, the travel, the transport, the advertising. They got all the sponsors in place. They've got the TV companies there. So it makes it, they're pushing an open door to put the championships in those places. It's a very difficult long-term dream for the reason I said to you before, but in the short term, before that happens, yeah, I think the Special Olympics could be hosted in the way it's done currently as a separate event to those other two in the UK. Yeah, I definitely do. But while lots of people from around the world would want to come to London and identify with London, I actually feel a different city, or combinations of different cities would work best. So Glasgow, Birmingham or Manchester would be amazing. They've both got, all three of them have got experience of hosting Commonwealth Games or World Championships in cycling or athletics recently. It just depends whether they can afford to host it. We’re back to my money point from earlier.
PAUL WILSHAW
I think that is so much the same around disability arts and sport and stuff. It's such an interesting thing of where money is a major thing and how we respect and, really prioritize what is actually good for our society and how we are going to progress and make sure that younger generations are supported in this, so that we’re not just segregated and things.
TIM CURTIS
And if you can't see someone that's like you succeeding and doing something, how can you imagine that or even have that as an ambition? So we know that that's what happens with Ella. We have members of our Saturday Cycling Club that come because they've seen you on the TV or seen you win medals. Am I right, Ella?
ELLA CURTIS
Yeah
PAUL WILSHAW
And actually just on that point where it's your cycling club? So that our listeners who might have a learning disability or might have a disability might want to join, so let's plug that for a sec
TIM CURTIS
So yeah, I mean, like I said, Special Olympics is something that happens not just at big elite competitions, but in week in, week out clubs. I'm a co-director of a community interest company called Summit Creative, and we run our Saturday wheels on Saturday Ella?
ELLA CURTIS
Yeah. Saturday.
TIM CURTIS
Can you remember what time?
ELLA CURTIS
I think it starts at half two
TIM CURTIS
It does. And it goes on for how long?
ELLA CURTIS
One hour
TIM CURTIS
Yeah. And where does that happen Ella, can you remember? You might not
ELLA CURTIS
I don't know
TIM CURTIS
You don't know? It happens at Wyke Sports Village at the Wyke Cycle Circuit, which is in South Bradford. If people would like, if people listening are interested and would like to go, the best way would be to contact my co-director Lucy at Summit Creative. It's summitcreative@gmail.com. Or you can find Summit Creative on Facebook or Instagram, or Lucy's phone number is 07547 799826.
Paul, I would say if enough Mind The Gap members wanted to try cycling, it's possible that we at Summit Creative could bring cycles to the mill, but the implications of that would be it might cost some money and we might need to like fundraise to make that happen.
PAUL WILSHAW
Well, let's think about that in the future. So I've got questions for you both now. And this one is how would you both encourage other disabled people who might be nervous or either learning to cycle, have given up but what to start again? How would you encourage them to do that Ella?
TIM CURTIS
Could they come somewhere Ella, if people wanted to try cycling and they were worried, they wanted to try a strike or see what it's like to ride a bike again could they try cycling?
ELLA CURTIS
I’d try cycling
TIM CURTIS
Where could they try it? Where could they come?
ELLA CURTIS
Cycling wheels
TIM CURTIS
Saturday Cycling wheels, yeah. Come to Saturday wheels. It's probably the best way I could encourage people to come along. But we do have a high staff to participant ratio at Saturday wheels and most of the athletes, they're being coached. They're not coming to have a go cycling, they're trying to improve their cycling wherever they are, whatever level they're at. Which is why we try and encourage people to contact us first so we can make sure we can look after you, or we've got the right cycle there for you, or it's ready or whatever. Because if you need a hand-crank, for example, we have them, but we'd have to make sure it is up and ready for you before you got there.
PAUL WILSHAW
I want to know; what cyclist inspires you? Who inspires you to cycle? Is there any famous cyclist?
TIM CURTIS
Are there other any of your other GB cyclists that inspire you to cycle Ella?
ELLA CURTIS
Kiera Byland
TIM CURTIS
Kiera Byland. That's right.
PAUL WILSHAW
And does she inspire you?
ELLA CURTIS
Yeah.
TIM CURTIS
You're on your way to chasing her medals.
ELLA CURTIS
Yes!
PAUL WILSHAW
I can see you challenging! Tim, who inspires you?
TIM CURTIS
Crikey. I mean, I first started watching cycling when the Tour de France was on channel four in the 1980s. It's the first time they put it on TV. When I was a young lad, when I was a teenager. And so there were two Irish riders then, Stephen Roche and Sean Kelly, that really inspired me. But current cyclists that inspire me, I love Mark Cavendish. I love Lizzie Dynan from Yorkshire, former world champion. I like, David Stone, who's a Paralympic tricycle champion. And yeah, Ella Curtis. My cycling inspiration.
PAUL WILSHAW
That is great. This is the last question and it's a personal question. I want to know how you both feel about the word ‘special’ in terms of disability. I personally don't like it myself, and I'm very honest about that. I want to know how you both feel about, as part of the Special Olympic team and everything.
ELLA CURTIS
So, I feel good. That’s it.
TIM CURTIS
Fair enough Ella. And I would say, quite carefully because I'm here as a representative of Special Olympics Great Britain, as well as, a representative of Summit Creative and Ella’s dad, I would say that, unfortunately, lots of the words we use in Special Olympics, they're American. Special Olympics is the brand name of the third Olympic movement, and it's over 55 years old. And although words have changed their meaning in that 55 years, the organization name hasn't changed. It's actually older than the Paralympic movement. And, it was started by Eunice Kennedy Shriver, who's a member of the famous American Kennedy family. So it kind of stuck. That's what the reasoning is behind that name. Another American term we use that widely in Special Olympics is intellectual disability, where I would say and we would say in the UK, learning disability and neurodiversity. As much as I have my own personal opinion about it, I have to use that terminology sometimes when I'm filling in official paperwork, I don't make those rules. I would like to change them. But they're not my rules.
PAUL WILSHAW
No, and we totally get that. And I think it's really interesting like, terminology. We’re having the same talks and conversations around that in the arts, as you guys probably having in sport as well. And I think that's where sport and art come together, is terminology always changing. We need to see more of our generations coming up in the sports as well as in the arts. We need to see more gold medallist. We need to have more representation on our arts, in our sports, in everyday life, because we're here. We are here, we are to be seen and we're certainly, in the case with Ella, is certainly going to be heard. It's been an absolute pleasure to interview you both today. I'm really grateful that you've come in
TIM CURTIS
Can we finish with one last thank you? You've interviewed me about how I help Ella, but Ella’s family have been really important in helping her journey. So when she went to Berlin, she had two sets of grandparents there. She had her sister there. She had her PA, Katie and Katie's boyfriend, they came all out to Germany to come and support her. And four years ago, when she'd raced in Abu Dhabi on the formula one track, she had even more family members come and support her at that event. So my message would be, if you want to do arts, come to Mind The Gap, come and join our Summit Creative artistic activities. If you want to do sport and you want to do cycling, come along and join us on a Saturday afternoon. But, if you can get help from family and friends, that's a really important thing to help you pursue your dreams, your goals. And you could join in every week and have fun and learn and make new friends and learn new skills. You could go to a World Games you could perform on the stage at Edinburgh Fringe.
PAUL WILSHAW
Yep, and you could be the next Ella!
ELLA CURTIS
Could be the next Ella, or the next Paul!
PAUL WILSHAW
Or the next Paul, or the next Tim! Why shouldn't we also have…
TIM CURTIS
I would love to have a learning disabled coach as part of my coaching squad. That would be amazing.
PAUL WILSHAW
So thank you very much Tim and Ella. Please listen to the next podcast by Disability Arts Online. Take care everyone.
TIM CURTIS
Auf Wiedersehen! Goodbye.
ELLA CURTIS
Bye!
OUTRO
Thank you for listening. We do hope you've enjoyed this episode of Disability And. Further episodes of Disability And can be found that www.disabilityarts.online