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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Hey, Matt, we are here again.
Another episode.
Uh, this one is, always say the same things I can feel like, but, but that is always true.
So, uh, this guest has some resume and it, and it, think it's the first one to really
match my imaginary one.
And look, I know that, that our listeners don't come to the pod for just insights and good
looks, but they've been demanding celebrities.
And here we are.
We delivered.
This episode has a big one.
Peguy, Luyindula.
A 17 year professional career that included time at Lyon, Marseille.
Seven years at PSG was played for the French national team, New York red bulls in the MLS
locker rooms with Thierry.
Henry, Anelka, Cahill, Makélélé.
I mean, this is the real football life, right?
What matters for this show is not just his resume.
but really is the contrast of his early childhood soccer life to the glamour of Parc des Princes.
For parents in the US, we're often dealing with a labyrinth of
complexities that seem unique to us, but it's not exactly true.
Peguy does give us a clear comparison point, though.
What's different when the game is embedded in daily life and when the system is built on
development and competing beyond participating and winning.
And he talked about that not only from his specific experience, but that as a dad of a
young footballer also.
uh
Yeah, well, let's get into it.
It's not waste time on our mumbo jumbo and all of our yammering.
Here's our conversation with Peguy, Luyindula.
Liron: Peguy,
welcome to chasing the game.
Your footballing career is one that
so many of us just dream about.
Lyon, then Marsai, uh,
six years at, at PSG.
Uh, have played Champions
league, won League
one seven caps, French National team, all
that before moving to
the United States.
Um, there you, uh, played with the
Thieri, Henri, Red Bulls, what a
story.
I just have
goosebumps even reading it.
Uh, and now you made NYC your home.
And we're lucky to have you here.
And I even remember the one time you
and I got to hang out at, uh, Matt's
house and we watched the Champions
League, uh, finals together and
it was probably the most
quiet I've been in two years.
Just, uh, hearing you speak about
the game and, and how you see it.
And, uh, I hope we can
share
some of that knowledge with,
uh, our listeners and viewers.
So, welcome my friend,
Peguy: Thank you.
Thank you Liron, and thank you, Matt.
Thanks for having me.
I'm glad and very happy
to do this with you guys.
Matt: Oh man.
It's, uh, it's, it's, it's our pleasure.
And, and you know, I've had the
privilege of getting to know you
over the last four or five years,
and just when I thought I had some sort of
understanding of the game, uh, I realized
after walking away from a conversation
with you that it was minimal at best.
Not because you told me so, but just
the way you, you look and see the game
in a way that I could only dream about.
Um, so I've always, uh, treasured our
conversations and our friendships, so
it's great to, it's great to have you on.
Liron just ran through your playing
career, uh, very, very quickly, but you've
also been a sporting director for Dijon.
You own and run an academy in Africa.
You're an investor in different,
different, um, elements of the US
youth soccer ecosystem, including SoFi.
Um, but most importantly,
you're also a dad.
Um, you have three kids, two
girl, two daughters who I
think were basketball players.
And you have a son who's soon to be 14.
He's right around my, my son's age.
Um, today, look, what we're really
looking for is your perspective,
So why don't we jump right in?
Peguy: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh, with great pleasure.
Um.
I, I don't wanna be, maybe I'm
gonna be too, too a little bit
technical, uh, because it's in me
and sometimes I can, I can't help it.
But, uh, I I'm not trying to
make it that too complicated.
Uh, yes, I've been a sporting director.
Uh, I've, I was born and raised in
football, so I know a little bit
about it and, and I played also.
But coming to the US was, uh, very
different for me, uh, because of
the, the way people see the game.
It's very different as what we have
in, uh, in France and obviously
what, what it is in Africa.
So, so, so it's, uh, it
was a discovery for me.
Uh, I've been in the, and I'm
still in the, in the youth system,
um, of soccer in the us and, uh,
and I, I have to admit that I.
I don't understand everything about it.
the levels and stuff, like, I'm
not, I'm not, I'm not gonna pretend
that I'm an expert because I'm not.
So, so I'm still learning, but most of
all, I'm passionate about the game and I
love seeing kids play and how they evolve
because it's, uh, it's, it's a mystery.
It's a great mystery, like seeing
kids, uh, improving their, their
games and change the changes of,
uh, the body and, and how they see
the stuff, how they comprehend and
how they, how they basically adapt
their game to, to new challenges.
So, so to me it's, uh, it's a great
adventure and, uh, uh, with, with some
bumps obviously, but, but I'm still,
uh, I'm still learning and I'm looking
at it with, uh, with a great pleasure
and, and a lot of questions sometimes.
Matt: I love it.
A adventure.
Yeah, it is, it is definitely a, a
great adventure, that's for sure.
Can you, um, take us back,
start at the beginning.
What did your early development look
like in the game of football in France?
Um, I think your dad was a coach as well.
Peguy: my dad was a, he was,
he was a professional soccer
player, uh, in, in Congo too.
He played for the, the
Congolese national team.
Uh, he made the AFCON,
but he was a defender.
And most of the time I, when I'm
joking with him, I'm, I'm telling
him, yeah, I was, uh, essential,
like attacking me field the forward
because I was more talented than you.
you.
were not, that great.
So that's why, that's
why you were defender.
So
Matt: Oh, that's great.
Peguy: jokes back and say that
I could never dribble him.
Like, yeah, his wish.
But
Liron: Yeah, dads are always
right, so he's probably right.
Peguy: Yeah, but he could
be violent sometimes.
So, so it it, it's funny that you
mentioned that my dad was a coach
because I see him more as a former
player than a coach, and he did coach me.
Uh, so basically what, what he did, it
was he, he thought that what I was doing
in the club, uh, where, where I start, I
started playing football, was not enough.
So it was like, I'm gonna train you more
so we can, so we can like master some
move that I want you to master more.
Technically not, not s never physically.
And uh, and it's funny because when
I think about that and the fact that
you're saying my dad was a coach,
that was one that, that's one image
that I have in the, in mind, always.
He would, he, he would put
me in the middle of the
field and he was in the goal.
He would shoot a long ball.
And, and, and mind you, I was 13
at the year, uh, at, at the time.
So he was shoot like a strong
ball, like a long strong ball.
And he would, he would scream, "chest it".
And I was like, I was like getting
the boot like this with my hands
and it was like, take the hands off.
So, so I was always laugh about
it, but, but it's, uh, yeah, it
was, it was a nightmare for me.
A nightmare.
Matt: What, um, what, what did,
what did it look like for you, like
at your local club and then as you
progressed, when you think about how
did you spend your time playing, how
much of it was, was, was structured?
How much of it was unstructured?
Like when it was unstructured,
where was that happening?
Was it playgrounds, was it streets?
Peguy: The, the, like, the chance that
we have, um, in France, I think, is
that, is that basically the, like,
like football doesn't cost that much.
It's, it's increasing, like, don't
get me wrong, but at the time
it was, it was close to nothing
because, uh, uh, it's, um, it's.
Heavily subsidized by the, by the city.
So you have a field, it's paid for by
the city and maintained by the city.
And, uh, and, and the city give money
to the club so they can function.
So, so you come and you just have to
basically pay for your cleats because
even the, even the, the, the jerseys
and stuff, you don't have to bring that.
They, they give it to you.
And so, so that was structured
and you play as a kid.
You, at the time we were training once a
week and we were playing on the weekends,
Matt: What, what age is this?
Peguy: um,
it was for, from six to
10, I would say, yes.
From, from six to 10.
And, uh, but, but the rest of the
time we were playing everywhere in the
street with cans, with rocks, with,
with ping pong balls, with tennis balls,
with everything we were playing like
in the, in the, in the school yard.
We, we were playing everywhere.
So basically you would play for fun with
your friends at any time everywhere.
So, so, so that's the difference.
And maybe with New York, because New York
is difficult to, like, first of all, let
kids at seven, eight, play in the street.
It's very, it's very complicated.
Uh, it was, it was easier while where
I lived and, and over in France.
It's easier in the, in the neighborhoods,
uh, because the price of real estate
is not that, that competitive.
And you, it's not like you have.
Spots to play, basically.
And, uh, and so that's why we were playing
in the street and we were challenging each
others, and it was all about the dream
ball, you know, in the neighborhoods.
Like I grew up in a, like,
kind of a poor neighborhood.
So it was like, it was like growing
up in the US and playing basketball
in, in, uh, in the playground.
So that's, that's what we would do.
Matt: Uh, Peguy, I know you still,
you're, you're back and you go back and
forth and you're in France quite a bit.
Do you sense it's still like that?
Are kids still out playing in the
streets, playing pickup as much
Peguy: Oh yeah, they're,
Matt: you were a kid?
Peguy: oh yeah, they're, oh, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
But now they have balls.
they don't play with rocks anymore
Matt: yeah.
Yeah.
It's evolved.
Peguy: now, now it's fancy.
You know, they have the, the,
the small fields, uh, the,
the, the, the city fields.
I don't know how you call that in
the us but it's, uh, in Frances, the
"citi stad" 'cause it's a small field
with also basketball, but no one plays
basketball in my, in our neighborhoods.
Matt: When did you make
your professional debut?
Peguy: Um, I was, I was
almost 18, it was in 97.
Uh, uh, yeah.
And I was in second division
and I met my first game and I
wasn't even supposed to play.
I was, I was, I was training with
the, with the academy and we were
joking around, you know, kids, I, I
was being a kid and a stupid kid with
my friend, and at some point my coach
told me, oh, Peguy put you on the side.
You don't, you're not gonna run.
And I was like, whoa, everyone's
running and I don't run.
What did I do?
I was like, oh, I'm done.
I'm done.
It's gonna kill me.
To me, to me it was nothing
but a nothing but a bad news.
So I was, I was here like waiting
for, to know what was happening.
And then they were running, running
and I wasn't doing anything.
And at the end of the training, he told
me, oh, you have to go with the clothes.
And I was like, whoa, that's good.
And then I trained with them
because, because they had
two, uh, two strikers injured.
So, so they called me and, and they,
they told me, oh, tomorrow you're gonna
play, uh, you're gonna play with us.
And I was like, whoa.
And I didn't even make the, the reserves,
so I was still playing with the kids
and I jumped from the kids to the pro.
Matt: That's amazing.
Peguy: And so I was on the bench and
the only thing that I was thinking
about was the bonus, the winning bonus.
Because we didn't have that, we didn't
have winning bonus in, in, uh, in sub 18.
So I was like, okay,
I'm gonna get my money.
Everything is good.
And we were, we were, we were winning 1-0.
And so I was like, really
on the bench as a spectator.
I was watching the game, enjoying
and thinking about my money.
And so at one point the other team scored
and I was still thinking about the money.
I was like, oh no, they're
taking my money away.
And I was like, that's
like, that's, that's unreal.
And
Liron: you
became a real pro
Peguy: and
Matt: exactly.
From the, From From from the
love of the game to the money.
Peguy: E Exactly.
And then he sent me, no, but
that, that was because I was
like, I'm not gonna play.
So I'd rather just enjoy the money
because then they're gonna send me
back when the, the two guys gonna come
back from injuries, they're gonna send
me back and I would never come back.
Um, I, I might come back in two years.
So that's, that was my, my
vision, because I was young.
17, 18, I was, I was young.
To me it wasn't like, that's your time.
And then the sent us the sent,
uh, they sent us warming up.
So I started to warm up.
Still in my mind, I'm just warming up.
It's just like nice with
me and this and that.
And at some point he called me and,
and mind you, it's still one, one.
He called me.
I swear to God, I looked
behind me and I was like, me.
And, and he said, and he said, yay, you.
Who else "come quick".
Then I ran and I was like, oh my
God, they're not gonna do that.
They're not going, they're done.
I'm going to eat up everyone.
and then I went on the field and
like five minutes after I scored.
Matt: Oh,
Peguy: And then, and then I always, I
remember because I was running through
the, the stands because there was a spot
where all my friends from the academy
were sitting and I was looking for them.
And then I starting to like climb
on the, on the fence and everything.
And the, the rep gave me a yellow
card and uh, and, and we won the game.
And we won the game.
Matt: Did you ever play with the
academy again or was that it?
You were a pro from then
Peguy: No, never.
Never, never.
I never went back.
Yeah.
That was it.
Matt: So,
Peguy: And I did
Matt: uh, Peguy, what was, you
talked a little bit about working
with your dad when you were 13.
Now you're talking about when you, when
he's in the stands, watching you succeed
as a pro at the highest possible level.
What was the relationship
with him when you, from 13 to
18 to when you became a pro?
Like how involved was he?
Um, how difficult was it between
the two of you or not difficult?
What did, what did that look like?
Peguy: Uh,
he was particular, he was particular
because, um, my dad, he, he
was never coming to my games.
Like never.
I played from 7 to basically 14.
He was, he, he wasn't coming.
Like he, he, he didn't even know how, how
good I was or like, he knew it because
his friend told him, said, oh, your, your,
your son is good, but he wasn't coming.
And then when he started coming, I
wasn't comfortable with his presence.
Matt: Hmm.
Peguy: I, I, I really didn't like that.
From 13.
Yeah.
From 13 to 15.
I didn't, I didn't really
like him coming to my games.
Matt: Did.
Was he not coming when you were
between seven and 14 because he was
a pro, a former pro, and he didn't
want to put pressure on you, or was
he not coming because he was working?
What was the.
Peguy: exactly.
Because he, he didn't wanna
put any pressure on me.
He, like, like my, my, uh, my dad
was always, um, very demanding
in everything that I was doing.
And even when he was training me.
So he was training me, but
he wasn't coming to the game.
That's, that, that was,
that was very strange.
And then he starting to come because
he had to bring me, because I
was playing, uh, 45 minutes away.
So I changed club.
So he had to bring me, uh, so that's
why he starting to be at the game.
Follow me.
And that's the, that's
the period that was like.
The most difficult for me because around,
yeah, 14, 15, um, I was, I was really
small compared to the other kids, and
physically I was like, I was so late.
And, uh, and I tried to get into,
you know, the famous, um, uh, academy
Clairefontaine, big one from France,
et cetera, have been rejected.
Then I tried another one in, in my area.
I've been rejected and then I, I,
at one point, I, I wanted to quit.
I would need to stop football.
I didn't wanna play anymore.
I was 14, I think.
uh, all of my success are bound to
him my dad on that very night when he
convinced me to not stop playing football.
I told you I, I've been rejected,
uh, from uh, two or three, uh,
academy they didn't pick me.
And, and physically I felt like
it was too difficult for me.
Because, because, yeah, I was, I
was fast, but I wasn't strong, so
I couldn't sustain the, the, the,
the sharks, I couldn't sustain
like the physicality of the others.
Uh, they were like, like bigger than me.
And, and, and it was very difficult.
And so, uh, I was discouraged.
So, so at one point when I, I remember
because I received the letter and you
know, it was, you know, you get the
letter and they say, yeah, unfortunately
we're not picking you, blah, blah, blah.
Good luck.
And, and so I read that.
I was like, yeah, that I'm done.
I'm done.
What do you want me to do?
So I went to my dad and I say, yeah,
I'm gonna stop playing football.
And he asked me, whatcha gonna do?
I said, oh no, I'm gonna play for fun
with my friends in the neighborhood.
And he was, and he was like, okay,
I can, I can sense what you feel.
I know it's difficult.
You shouldn't quit.
We're gonna take another route.
We are gonna take it slowly,
but you should not quit.
Like, trust me, we're gonna do it
differently, but, but don't quit because
you have the the, the quality and,
and quitting right now, it's not gonna
give you any benefits because you don't
know what's gonna happen in the future.
So then I was like, okay, at
least one person believes in me.
So, so yeah.
So I continued and uh, and then after
that I went into the Academy of Niort.
And the, the rest is, yes,
is history I'm always telling
to the kids, so where is it?
The kids from Africa that we're
bringing on here, or I'm also president
of my childhood club So, so I go and
speak with the kids all the time,
and I speak also with the coaches and
I say, you can make a good player.
That's why to me, like
having the US right now on.
Not being at the play, the,
the place there should be.
It's strange because you, you have
the matter, you have the, you have
the quality in your, in your country.
You just have to train them because
you can make a good pro, you can
make a player, and then you have
the others, the gifted from God.
And that's God Messi.
It's God, Ronaldo, it's
God, Neymar is God.
And you can do nothing about that.
You are never gonna dribble like Neymar.
Never, ever, you are never
gonna do what Messi does.
It's impossible.
Impossible.
Like, like I, I repeat Impossible.
Liron: what you're
saying is, is so strong.
It's, um, a lot of the parents
they'll share Instagram clips of,
let's say, uh, Neymar doing this, or
they, all the kids should see that.
I go, wait a minute.
First you have to
be Neymar
to do
what Neymar does.
it doesn't matter how many times your kid
is gonna try that, that is not happening.
Peguy: not, it's not.
Look, if, if you, if you watch closely
because you have to watch, you don't, like
they see football, they don't watch it.
They, they just see it.
If you watch it closely, watch Messi
when he plays, how many touches he makes
with the ball and at what pace, and
then try to think if you can do that.
It's not possible.
Matt: Hmm.
Peguy: It's not possible.
The, like, the amount of time where it
touches the ball that allows him, if
you come to him, he can change because
he always touches the ball, but he
doesn't, he doesn't like slow down.
He keep the same speed.
So that's, that means that he comes to you
when you come and try to get him the ball.
He has the ball on his,
on his foot like this.
If he does that, you come,
he do this and he go there.
How you gonna catch him?
It's impossible.
I remember one day I was, I was
watching a game, it was a Champions
league game, Barcelona, Arsenal.
He's in next to the six yard box.
Like he did three touch
in three milliseconds.
That was like, boom, boom.
And I was like, that simple.
How do you do that?
don't minimize the fact that he's playing
in MLS because there's also a factor
because we're playing football, is that
you need your teammates to pro to, to
produce, you need to have good teammates,
ex and you need to adapt to their level.
And it, it, it's like, it's not easy.
Like people, people think that you
come in MLS because you played in, in
PSG, Real Madrid, et cetera, et cetera.
It's gonna be easy for you.
No, it's not gonna be easy.
See how, see how, uh, Olivier
Giroud couldn't adapt to the,
to the, to to, to LAFC, it's not
that Olivier is a bad player.
He is an incredible player.
But he was struggling in LAFC because
you have to play with your teammate and
Messi can do that easy Ever since you're
on the side of the field, you watch
a game, you think everything is easy.
That's why everyone thinks
they can play football.
Liron: Yeah, it's very easy.
Of course, it's easy.
Peguy: at the game and, and you like, and
you, oh, I would, I I would've done that.
Oh, I would've score this one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Obviously you
Liron: question.
Peguy: And yeah, and he is making
that for the professionals.
So the professional, we make
it look easy for the amateurs.
He make it look easy for us.
And it's difficult.
Matt: Yeah.
Liron: So, so what you're saying is
because I look like, uh, Zidan out of
shape cousin doesn't make me Zidan.
That's
really what
you say.
Okay.
I again, look, I'm learning a lot.
You know, I, you know, I want
switch to the,
I
wanna switch to the MLS Uh, what
was your impression of the league?
Was it different than your European life?
Obviously you did play with very
high level European players.
Can you tell us a little
bit about that change?
Peguy: when I came in, the, in,
in MLS to me was great because the
atmosphere is, it's so welcoming.
Uh, I was like, that's great.
I can bring my kids, uh, you
know, it's fun to play, et cetera.
And then the more you're playing
in it, you're like, yeah,
but you miss that tension.
You miss that, that like, you miss it.
You, you miss that, that,
that drama basically.
You really miss that drama.
And I was missing the drama, so, so
I was like, in the regular season,
I was, yeah, I was a bit bored.
And, and the, the only thing that
I was waiting for was the playoffs.
That's it.
Matt: You're playing for a supporter
shield and then you're playing
for the playoffs, but it's not
the same, obviously, and, uh,
Peguy: it's not, it's not the same.
Because I think that, I think
that I, I think that they.
They don't, they don't put
enough emphasis that winning
the supporter ship is difficult.
It's difficult because basically
you have to be good all year long.
It's very difficult.
Matt: if you pay attention to any
of the matches today versus when
you were playing in MLS, Uh, does
it look and feel different to
you, the atmosphere, the quality?
How
much has it improved?
Peguy: I think it's, it's incredible
because stadiums are brand new.
Uh, the people are coming, they're
really enthusiastic about their
teams, like on, at that point.
I think it's fabulous.
I think I, I think they can, they
still can improve what they're doing.
And um, and, and to me it will
go with the, with the salary cap.
Unless they, they manage to like, bring in
players with better salary to level the,
the quality of the, of the overall team.
It's, it always gonna be difficult
because it's, it's too, uh, asymmetric
and, uh, and, and you, you can
see that It's the same thing.
It's the same thing in
France, for example.
When you, when you analyze all
the, all the squads and you see.
The squads that, that are able to
afford, like better salaries for
players, they're not gonna go down.
Liron: if you look at the MLS today,
and let's say you compare it to
Ligue 1, like, do you, and put the
top four teams from Ligue 1 aside.
Would you call that level
comparable to the MLS
Peguy: no.
tactically, uh, tactically in
Ligue 1 Um, they, they are better.
it's very physical.
Like MLS it's physical,
it's about running, like you
are running a lot in NLS.
You, I don't think in
Ligue 1 you run that much.
but it's, it's, it's more difficult
to find the space to score.
It's more difficult to like impose
yourself with the defenders.
look, Lionel Messi could do
stuff in Ligue 1, unless he was
in 1 v 1 against, against, uh,
a big dude from, from Nigeria.
Now, now, now, good luck.
'cause the guys, he's just
gonna impose his physic on you.
He's not gonna let you leave.
He's not gonna let you turn with the ball.
He's gonna be on your back for 90
minutes and then try to escape that.
I'm never go, I'm never going back in
Ligue 1 because in Ligue 1 was it's
war Ligue 1 it's war was seriously.
Matt: can we get to a place
in 25 years where MLS is a
top four league in the world?
Is that, is that possible?
Peguy: the problem is, so there's
two answer to your question.
Does football's gonna look
the same in 25 years from now?
That's the first question.
Like with all the stuff that.
Like that, the, the money's pushing Super
Matt: League.
Yeah.
Peguy: changing the, changing the format
of champions league, the, the game
that wanna be, uh, relocated in the
US in in Asia, et cetera, et cetera.
I don't necessarily think that football's
gonna look the same in 25 years It's
difficult to catch up, the MLS is
gonna evolve because they can adapt.
Something that maybe sometimes
is difficult to, to do
when you are in Europe,
Matt: I think in some ways gives the
US hope that our league will continue
to grow and eventually be on par.
But I'm not sure what on par looks like.
Right.
Liron: it could be it could be a New
American soccer, could be a different
kind of culture of soccer too.
Yeah.
Uh, it, it doesn't always
have to be the same.
Uh, you know, I was, I was thinking
about like, uh, Peguy, I'm sure
you're familiar with, uh, FIBA, if
you look at the European basketball
games and you can see a game from
Greece where the fans are fanatic
and it, it doesn't look like the NBA.
The NBA looks like a Broadway show,
but the level of play at the NBA is
much higher than it is in Greece.
But the culture and the fun.
Of the basketball atmosphere in Greece
is 10 times better than the NBA.
So maybe the Americans will figure
out a different kind of soccer that
is theatrical in a sense, not in a
bad way, and leave the, leave the
rest of the world to beat the crap
out of each other in the stadiums.
Matt: Yeah.
We're gonna make, we're gonna
make the goals bigger, the field
Liron: Who knows?
Every, uh, if you score from outside
of the box, it's three points.
I, I don't know.
There's many ways that
we can make this better.
Peguy: Y Ev everything can happen.
Everything can happen.
And they, and they, and they, um,
like you have two players that
Liron: Uh.
Peguy: really have changed
football for forever.
Christian Rolando and Lionel Messi,
and even though they're not playing
in Europe there, are still followed.
As if they were playing in Europe.
So, and, and now they're bringing
the awareness and the eyeballs
on different territories.
Liron: I just wanna kind of move
a little bit as we're gonna.
Now talk about probably
the most challenging
football system in the world.
US youth
soccer.
You are, you are in it now,
just like all of us.
Uh,
tell us a little bit
from your point of view, which
is much more interesting
than ours,
what does that look like to you
when you're, for, with all your knowledge
and everything you've done with your son?
Peguy: Uh, it's not easy.
It's, it's certainly not easy.
Uh, it's a bit confusing.
Like I said, I, I'm still
unaware of what's the level,
what, what can you do to go up?
Why you going down?
Why is one level better than the other?
I don't know.
I don't know because it's not that
coming to a league and it brings
you like, like basically if you an
NAL maybe you guys can tell me that.
Uh, what does your team has
to do to go in, in MLS next?
Liron: Uh, Peguy,
we're here to ask the questions,
not answer questions because
obviously I, I have no idea.
Matt: idea.
so, so,
so,
so, so.
Peguy: no, no, because I, I, I
was like, maybe, maybe they know.
I always respect people that are like,
uh, in, in the country before me and
Liron: know someone who knows
in this out of the three of
us I know Who's gonna know.
Go ahead Matt,
Matt: No, I mean, gosh, I don't know.
I mean, I look, I think, um, well
I, look, I don't know if anybody
knows that answer, except probably
with people within the MLS system.
Right.
And Peguy, I mean, they,
they've rebranded a little bit.
You've got MLS next homegrown, which is
the first team you have MLS Next Academy,
which are typically the second teams.
You have some of those teams who, um,
don't have MLS next homegrown teams.
They just have MLS next, not just,
but MLS next Academy teams, which
play on a more seasonal calendar.
So the fall for the older kids
is off for the high school kids.
Similar to like an ECNL Right.
Or an elite academy.
Um.
But it's, uh, as far as how you get up
or, or if you go down, I have no idea.
Liron: is there an
Matt: and I don't know.
Liron: I think it's,
Matt: I mean, I'm, look, I'm sure they
look, they've clearly defined criteria, or
at least it seems, from what I can tell.
And some of that is
player pathways and kids who players
who have moved on and become college
players or professional players.
I think there's an element of it, which
is around facilities and infrastructure.
Can you provide the right,
the right atmosphere?
A part of it's around coaching.
I think for MLS next,
homegrown, all coaches have to
have A-A-U-S-S-F be license.
Um, so I, I think they've tried
to put the right criteria around
it, but, but I don't know what,
how it, all plays together.
Peguy: yeah, but that's the thing.
Um.
I don't, I don't know if, when I was
a kid, because we have, at the time we
had like two level of national plays.
It, it was U 15 national
and U 17, uh, U 17 National.
There was no U 18, U 19, blah, blah, blah.
There was U 15 and U 17, and that
was the only two level national.
All the rest was regional.
And, and if you were good, you would
play, like, you don't have to have a
coach there with a X, Y, Z license.
If your team is good, then you're
going to, you're going to level
up in U 15 and play in national.
Even if you have like a, a, a, a
coach from, from uh, uh, the project.
No, no one cares.
You good, you go.
And what I was trying to
understand in the US it's that.
How do you make that term?
How do you go there?
How do, and then again, it's
about identifying players so
they can come to a league.
It's not servicing players
so they can improve.
And, and, and that's where, that's where
I struggle because, because by doing
this, I feel like when you play at a
level that it's not necessary, MLS or NAL
or the, the one that are well known, you
consider like, like not a good player.
You consider like, like
you useless basically.
And, and, and to me, I
think it's a mistake.
because, you don't help
the confidence of the kids.
Uh, and you don't focus on what
they have to produce on the field.
So basically you don't teach them because
you consider yourself at a lower level
and then you disregard them, and then
you don't care if they have a good coach.
You going, you gonna give them, uh, uh,
a coach from the, the gym next door.
Just because he knows how to run doesn't
mean that he knows how to train kids.
And so people are gonna tell you,
oh yeah, but it's a low level.
Who cares?
No, the, at least I care.
Because, because if you wanna, if your
vision is Oh, in 20 years, uh, we are
gonna be, we're gonna be the, the, the,
the best sports in the US as the, the US
soccer is, is, is pretending to say right
now, then you have to put all the tools on
your side so you can train the players so
they can at one point elevate the overall
level of the, of, of the, the US soccer.
Matt: In, in fairness, it feels like a,
I mean, a, a a significant part of the
challenge is the size of this country,
not just from a population perspective,
but from a geographic perspective.
And then not just soccer,
but every other sport.
And we've talked about this a bit on
here, is also a pay to play system, right?
So there are things that are more
difficult to figure out, right?
Like, this isn't England, where you have
cat one, cat two, cat three, you jump on
a train and you're every, anywhere you
need to be within three to four hours.
It's not quite as simple as that.
how do we make, I mean, I think we're
making, we've made so many strides, right?
How do we continue to make strides?
Like what do you think
the biggest obstacles are?
Peguy: I don't know.
Brazil is big too.
Matt: I know Brazil is
the one that always yeah.
Liron: You walked into that,
Matt: I know it's true.
Brazil.
Brazil
Liron: last interview we
were also told by, uh, the
the
CEO of Albian that he was going
to Brazil to learn about kind of
their systems and and structure.
Um, I think that the issue that,
that Peguy brought up, and I, if I
understood it correctly, is that on what
you call the lower levels or there's
just also a huge gap in coaching.
So
it's you, you have a whole
system of kids and parents
willing to pay for the systems.
And there's so many kids
in America playing soccer.
Obviously not everybody could be
good enough
to play, but what we don't have good
enough coaches on the lower level to
even give the lower ones a chance.
If, if I
understand
what
Peguy: Oh yeah, definitely.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
you, you have to train coaches.
You have to give them a path to form them,
to make them understand how you train
the kids and how do you make them better.
Like you have to, you have to start
with the, with the coaching system.
Liron: some of these coaches
probably didn't play that
much soccer growing up anyway.
Peguy: That's okay.
I mean, I mean, I, I've,
I, I have bad coaches.
When I was a kid, I had bad coaches.
But within the organization where
I was, there was good coaches.
You cannot have an organization
where it's, it's, it's more like, um.
An administrative system where you
have someone who knows and he's more
preoccupied by how he's gonna make
that business work, whether than
than try to help the coaches that's
struggling with the lower levels.
You have to have that kind of sporting,
not sporting director, but the
sporting coordinator that's gonna go
and help those coaches to get better.
And not having the, the one with all the
knowledge getting lost in the paperworks
to, to like trying to lobby that league or
that league to move up so he can attract
more parents to ask them to pay more.
It's impossible to, if you do that,
then you lost your only hope to help.
Not the kids, but the one
who's gonna help the kids.
That's the problem.
Matt: Uh, Peguy, what, what, just from
what you've observed, seen, heard,
whatever it may be, how different, how
different does the actual development look
like here versus your academy in Africa,
uh, or your boyhood team in France, or
even like the larger academies in France?
Peguy: It's the rules.
I'm talking about rules starting
with, with the adults, not the kids.
You have to have a set of rules,
and the guideline that you have
for your club, and then those
coaches can pass it on to the kids.
But the problem, because you,
you're servicing clients.
In the US then there's a lot of stuff
that you put under the carpet, so you
don't have to speak about it, and you
have to hide it, and you don't, you
don't pay attention because that's not
the thing that's gonna make you money in
the, in, in Africa or in, in, in France.
When, when I was, when I was a player
growing up, you have to respect some set
of rules, like being in the collective,
how you are gonna conduct yourself and
on the field, how you're gonna respect
the tactical schemes and the, and the,
and the, the advice and the direction
that the coach is gonna give you.
in the US it's even worse
because parents are paying.
So if you pay, if you make
donations, if you this and that,
now it's riggs against the others.
So how someone who cannot even afford
to pay the price to play is gonna come
and, and, and challenge the other kid.
It's impossible because the
parents who pays now, they think
that they have an edge on others
and because they pay that much.
you just have to bow down and
just please the parents so you
can have your client happy.
That doesn't work
Matt: um, in a lot of ways, I think
it's harder for the, the person who
started, who owns the club in some
cases, for the academy director to
actually do what they want to do.
Right.
I truly, I, I believe that, that
these people want, they, they,
they believe they love the game.
95%
of them, I honestly, They, they don't
get in this to make a lot of money.
Right.
It's almost like teaching, you know, you
do this because you have a passion for it.
You want to see kids develop, but the
system is almost rigged against the
owners of clubs and academy directors
because the system is one in which.
Parents pay for their kids to play.
And look, some probably acquiesce
a little bit to some of that,
and it creates uneven dynamics.
There's no question about it.
Right.
Probably it, it happens everybody's
human, but I don't think anybody gets
into this business thinking about it.
Right.
And I think that there are so many
coaches who commit so much time and they,
and trying to develop players trying
to create an incredible environment.
But it's hard to do it.
I mean, and look, it's happening.
It's happening in a lot
of different places.
It's certainly not
happening in all of them.
And it's certainly not happening as
many as we would all want there to be.
I don't know, call me
an optimist on this one,
Liron: You're a nice
Matt: but I think, I think
Peguy: No, I
Matt: there's a lot of people who
care a lot.
It's just not, it's
Peguy: but you, you have.
You have, you have to have
optimist, optimist, people like you.
It's a, it's, uh, you are optimist and
that's good that what, what I'm saying is
that you have to shift on the pressure.
What you're saying is, what
you're saying is very true.
Like you have people who
are passionate about it.
And what I wanted to say is that the, the,
the people that, that should like, give
them strength to go the way they wanna
go, they cannot do it because they're
too focused on bringing money to survive.
And so that pressure, that pressure
that they feel now, now you can see it
on the field day to day because they
have the pressure of the results so they
can stay afloat with their business.
Otherwise, otherwise they die.
So now there's two ways All we can find.
A system that works differently
and I, I don't know where, where is
that gonna gonna fall, come from?
I don't know.
Or, or the, the federation, the US
soccer has to come with something
that can take off that pressure
off the shoulder of the clubs.
But that pressure is what makes today
difficult for the, the, the coach
who are passionate about the game.
Matt: what feels very absent in
all these conversations is the
impact or non-impact of US soccer.
Right.
MLS
Liron: the governing body,
Matt: Yeah.
I mean, look, M Ls has, MLS has stepped
up and done arguably a really, really
incredible job with, with where we are.
Like ECNL does an incredible job, I
think, GA on the girls side, ECNL, boys
and girls, like there are leagues who
have stepped up into a vacuum that in
some ways US Soccer has created, but US
soccer has gotta try to figure this out.
You can't just leave it to four
or five independent leagues.
There has to be a place and and
and an impact that US Soccer can
have on the system for it to get
better, for it to be where it
should be and where it needs to be.
I'm gonna get off my soap box
Peguy: They, they have to.
Matt: Wow.
Liron: Wow.
You're on fire
Peguy: No, no, no.
They
never, never, my, my you,
you're right, you're right.
And in France there, there's some
mechanism that makes, that, makes
the, the, the federation very
powerful and, and, and give them the
ability to give those subsidies to
small clubs so they can function.
The, the problem is that, like
you said, us, it's a, it's a huge
country, so they have no choice
other than split up the country.
In, in, in, in smallest federation You
have to have state with their own budget,
own government, that report to the US
soccer and the US soccer has to take care
of gov governing the, the overall project.
They cannot meddle everywhere.
It's not possible.
Liron: I mean, we're not
gonna solve all of these
problems tonight.
Maybe
just a couple of them,
Matt: you?
Well,
Liron: but,
Peguy: day.
Liron: uh,
but, but I, you know, I
just wanna, I wanna say
that focus a little bit on, on us, as
parents, just, it might surprise a lot
of our listeners or viewers that, uh, you
and I, Peguy, are a little bit different.
You're very athletic.
I'm not, you are French, I'm not.
You played the
highest level of
football in the world.
I pretend to understand
football, so all that
is established, but in
my case,
Matt: he, he's, he's much more charming,
Liron: true.
My more charming.
But in my case, my son
Levi's already figured out
and he has very little respect
for me as far as my football
knowledge on
the field.
So
it's kind of done.
I've done all I could.
Now he's independent.
If I
look at Marcus and I think about your
son, he sees his father who's was a, a
legend.
Is that a difficult position
to be?
Does he want to be a
football player and Do
you want him to be a
football player?
Peguy: I, I, I want it,
I want him to be happy.
I don't, I don't necessarily
want him to be a football player.
I don't, I don't really care to,
to be quite honest, because from
my position, I know that you can
enjoy football with at, at multiple
level and in, in multiple areas.
He doesn't know that because he's a kid.
He just see the, the, the, you know, the.
All the, the, the, the smoke and mirrors
that, that you see when you, you watch tv.
So he wants to go towards that.
Um, it's, it's difficult because,
um, obviously he doesn't have the
talent that I had, uh, at a young age.
Um, again, there's some stuff that he
can do, but it's, it's the same thing.
He, he will have to work, you
will have to understand that
he's gonna have to work hard.
And even if he was like crazy
talented, nothing is given.
It's not because you, you, you
freaking talented at 13, 14,
15, that you're gonna make it.
Like 90, 99.9% of the kids that
were like crazy talented with me.
I'm 14, 15, 0 0.
I'm the only one.
And I, and I, and I'm the
kid who wanted to stop.
So, so
Liron: Peguy,
Matt: why
Peguy: to you there.
Matt: so why is that?
I mean, is it, I mean, 14, 15,
third, uh, let's call it 12 to 15.
Or when these kids are
growing, their bodies change.
They grow into having pa they,
they, their passion picks up
or the passion dissipates.
Why 99.9% of the kids that you
were playing with at 14, 15 at
a high level didn't make it?
And why did you.
Peguy: Um, I think because I
was, I was ready to fight for it.
I was ready to like to.
Give up, give up anything.
Not saying that they
should give up anything.
It's, it's, they should understand that,
and I understood it at a very young age
that it's going to be difficult when
you're 15-14 and it's given to you.
You don't think that
it's gonna be difficult.
And, and the, the most, the
hardest thing in that, in that
industry is to understand that.
When it's hard, that's, that's
the time, that's, that's the time
when you have to bow up and fight.
Because, because it's gonna,
it, it, it might break you.
So, so I knew that from a young
age, and I think that's what,
that's what like protected me.
And then throughout my career, when it
was, when it was difficult, I, I, I fought
through it, but, but most of the kids,
they don't, they, they think it's a dream.
They think it's a game.
It's not a game.
It's a game when you're a kid.
But then when you become
a pro, it's not a game.
like you're gonna play
with, with the teammates.
They're not gonna pass you the ball.
Simple as that.
How do you do, how do you do?
You're gonna fight them.
If you fight, then you're done.
It's over.
So, so you have to, you
have to find the solution.
It's, it's, it's crazy difficult.
Liron: So
with this life
experience you have, which is so
unique, specifically in football, and of
course lessons in life, is it difficult
to relay those to Marcus ? Does he
want to hear it or is it the other
way around where he, he says, you
know,
Peguy: I don't, I don't
Liron: in in, in those stories.
Peguy: now, I, no, he, he is interested.
The, the, the only thing that I
can see is that he doesn't get it.
He is a kid.
He doesn't get it.
He's a kid to me.
He's a baby.
He's a baby.
And I'm, I'm not saying that
because he is, it's my son.
I'm not saying that because he's my son.
I'm saying that because at the
same age, I was not a baby.
I was not.
I was not a baby.
It was all I hard to like,
go outside and fight.
And I was, uh, I didn't
have a big brother.
So when I got into fight, I had
to fight with everyone basically.
So, so I had to fight at his age.
I wasn't like this, and my dad
wouldn't even allow me to be a kid.
He was very harsh on me.
I'm like, I'm cool with him.
I'm, I'm very nice.
And, and I think it's cool
because he has to be a kid.
I wasn't allowed to be a kid
and, and I didn't like that.
So I'm allowing him to be a kid, but
sometimes I want him to have a balance.
But he's too young.
He wants to have fun and, and
he doesn't understand when,
when he, he has a challenge.
But the good thing is he
has, he has resilience.
So if he wants to make, uh, that
his, his, his, uh, his profession.
I'm gonna help him.
I'm just going to keep telling him
that there's, there's like 0.1 chance
that he succeed because those are the
statistics, those are the, the, the risks.
It's not me.
It's not me like going against him.
It's like it's that difficult.
Liron: But don't, don't
you stand sometimes
on the sidelines.
'Cause you are who you are and you look at
what you just brought up, the coach or a
player, and you go, okay, let me fix this.
Let me get involved.
Or you do you, I've
been with you, so I've seen
how you keep your distance away.
Is, is this why,
Matt: he's so quiet
quiet
Liron: how quiet you are.
Peguy: I know that at, at some
point I'm gonna be involved.
I know that I'm gonna do something, but
I'm gonna do something on my own terms.
I don't wanna go.
If you bring me in and I have to go in the
pay to play and blah, blah, blah, blah.
You don't, you don't need me to do that.
You don't need me.
I'm not, I don't wanna grab a spot.
I'm not like, uh, I'm not, uh, advocacy
for, uh, uh, a position somewhere.
That's not what I do.
I'm silent on the sideline because
it's either I take over or I say
nothing, but there's no in between.
I cannot say, oh, no, do that, do this.
Sometimes I, I like, I
cheer up for the kids.
I say, oh yeah, go try this, et
cetera, because it's fun to me.
It's not guiding them.
It's fun, but I cannot like go
and starting to guide them, all
of them because that's, like I
said, I will have to be the coach.
Matt: Liron,.
I've tried that with him by the way.
I've, I've basically begged.
Liron: Like please tell them something.
Please.
Matt: no.
And that's, that's not a
slight on any of the coaches
Liron: Yeah, please help
them with one small thing.
Get just a little bit, he
Peguy: but you know what?
at the same time, because.
I, I didn't want to play football.
Wasn't when I was a kid.
Like I wasn't really interested.
I just wanted to play in, in the
neighborhood with my friends.
And my father was playing at the time in,
uh, in, uh, in, in, uh, in our hometown.
And that this game, he wasn't
playing, he was injured or whatever.
And I saw the kids my age going in
the middle of the field, a halftime
to shoot penalty kicks and all dress
up the same, you know, with the
jersey, the attire of the, the club.
And, and I was like, and I watched
my dad and I was like, I wanna go.
And he was like, what do
you mean you wanna go?
You always tell me you
don't wanna play football?
I said, yeah, but I wanna go on
the field and shoot with them.
What the heck?
And he was like, no, you cannot,
you're not, you're not registered.
You can't go.
And then I was like, oh geez.
I remember I start, I start crying
and then I, I asked my dad to
register me and that's how I started.
Liron: That's
it.
Oh, wow.
Matt: man.
Let, Peguy.
We're gonna wrap up with rapid fire.
Liron, you got the first one?
Yeah,
Liron: think we already, uh,
we already asked that one.
Uh, the one you wrote
me, we already covered.
So I'm gonna ask a different one.
Sorry.
And it might won't be one word,
but Peguy if there's a story Okay.
From your PSG or French National Team
Days, a story that still you look at
today and it still influences you today,
a story or a memory, please share with us.
It's gonna mean so much.
I,
Matt: ask him for rapid fire.
You ask for a
Liron: I'm, I'm sorry.
I, I, I know what, what I want to
Matt: Peguy You, you, you, you
can, you can listen to him.
Liron: please, but.
Peguy: uh, again, coming back to, uh, PSG
and how difficult it was to play in that
atmosphere and sustain that atmosphere
because, uh, most of the time, what I
was saying to my friend at the time,
um, his name is Ka Kamara, uh, he's,
he's the coach of Montpelier right now.
And, uh, and he came from Saint-Étienne.
He, he was like also like
a, a, a dreamer of PSG.
He wanted to play in that club so
much, and first, his first game, so we
were in concentration at the, at the
hotel and he was like, oh, tomorrow
it's the first game of the season,
if we can beat them three zero.
And I watch him and I was like,
who you are optimistic, man.
He was like, what do you mean that team
is okay, but they're not better than us.
And I watch him and I was like,
oh, you don't know my boy.
You don't know.
not when you, when you have that
jersey and you play in Parc des
Princes, first of all, every team
that want that come in Parc des
Princes, they want to shine because
they know everyone's gonna be there.
It's Paris, their family,
their girlfriends, whatever.
Everyone like play his best.
So he's going to be difficult.
And I, and I looked at him
and I say, listen to me.
If we trash them one
zero, I would be happy.
And you look at me like one
zero is not trashing anyone.
I was like, eh, trust me in that
stadium, when you're gonna get the,
the ball in your feet and you're going
to look at anyone who wants the ball.
Because that's the thing, when you
play football, if you have the ball and
no one wants the, everyone is hiding
behind opponents, how can you play?
And that was the case when I was
playing at that time, there were
so many players that were hiding.
There was, they were so afraid
that they didn't want the ball.
It's that difficult.
It was that difficult.
So that's why I told him, if we trust them
one zero, that would be like very good.
And he looked at me
like, this guy is crazy.
Trust me.
After the game, we did one, one, by
the way, after the game, he say, okay,
I understand what you're saying now.
Liron: That's, see, we
almost missed that moment.
That was amazing.
Uh, okay, now wrap.
Matt, you can move to
the second rapid fire.
Matt: What's one thing Americans
should take from Europe as far
as development is concerned?
Peguy: Um, yeah, rapid fire
is not gonna be so rapid.
Liron: This,
Peguy: no, that This one is difficult.
We have something that we
call, uh, it called the Foot.
So it's uh, it, it's school
of football basically.
And that's from, that's
from five to eight.
And you only learn technical
skills like control passes,
like the ability with the ball.
Like, like familiarize
yourself with the Ball
Matt: Yeah.
Ball mastery.
Yeah.
Peguy: Yeah.
But, but not, not ball mastery as like,
you wanna start to do crazy stuff.
Like basic stuff like basic boring stuff.
Liron: it's true.
Um, Americans are lacking in
that, that I see it in the kids.
It's true.
Uh, Peguy, uh, one thing, uh,
um, parents should stop doing
Matt: As it relates to soccer.
Otherwise,
Liron: yeah, right?
yeah, That, yeah.
I forgot about that.
Yes.
I told you.
Matt's on fire today.
Peguy: it's difficult because I,
I would have to explain, but they
should, they should stop putting,
uh, pressure on your, on their kids.
Yeah.
They should stop putting pressure
when I'm, when I'm, when I'm
saying pressure, it's about.
Not letting them enjoy the game.
Like, enjoy, like, like there are kids,
they should, they should be enjoying this.
They should be like going and be
happy and kid around and like,
it's too much like you have soccer.
It, it, it looks like it's, it's
uh, the prolongation of school.
Like you are in school and then you're
still in school soccer basically.
You learn and, and you have to
be like, focused, concentrated,
like they, they, they should
enjoy more and, and play around.
Liron: It's beautiful.
Matt,
Matt: Best advice for a 10-year-old
who's chasing their dream to
be a professional footballer?
Peguy: even Christiano
Ronaldo and Messi got haters.
So there's no perfect.
Don't try to be perfect and please
everyone, because even the best
one in history got haters, so
Matt: It's amazing, right?
Liron: Uh,
can we say, wow, are we,
am I allowed?
I know people always say,
always say, wow.
I say, wow,
this
interview was the real, wow,
Peguy, I,
I,
I, I,
I just don't know what to say.
Uh, it, you are amazing.
You're, I had the privilege to
meet you, spend time with you.
Now I'm embarrassed that you saw
me scream like an animal next
to you while you were there.
All quiet.
And, oh, God, I
have so much work I need to do.
And I,
but
the
fact that, that you're still here
and, and, and just, you've
told us so much and I've
just
adore you as a father, as a, as a, is
a friend, as a person, and as a player.
And just thank you so much for, for
everything you've given us today.
Peguy: No thank you guys for this.
It was a great pleasure.
I, I love talking about football.
I, I love you guys.
We spend so much time together
talking and trying to remake every
game, so I, I, I still enjoy it.
And, and, and it was very fun.
It was very fun.
Double wow.
Un, deux, trois wow.
Un, trois wow.
If you take one thing from Peguy, it's that development is not a schedule.
It's a lifestyle.
He literally described it as we were training once a week and we were playing on the
weekends.
And then the rest of the time we were playing everywhere on the street.
That's a completely different foundation than what most kids get here.
And the other thing he said that hit me, don't try to be perfect and please everyone,
because even the best one in history has haters.
He of course was referring to Messi.
not to me.
He also made it really simple and synthesize this idea of access, right?
You just have to basically pay for your cleats.
This is how he sees football.
It's beautiful.
And that's part that you and I keep coming back to many times, how the environment can
shape a player way before tactics, rankings, and all of this stuff.
And now how can we not wrap this up without bringing up his relationship with his dad,
former soccer star himself, huge personality.
that didn't go to his son's practices or early games.
Brain exploding.
But uh he was the one who actually kept Peguy in football when things look really grim
during Peguy's teenage years.
So Peguy, mon frère, thank you very much, seriously.
And for all of you who listening, if this episode brought up something that you're dealing
with right now, please share it with another parent.
Send it to a coach you trust.
This is exactly the kind of conversation we want to have more of.
You can find Chase in the game wherever you get your pods in the full video on YouTube.
Thanks for being here.
Matt, next time.