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Tome CEO Jake Sigal talks with Roger Lanctot about post-pandemic transportation, future of connected cars, and Roger offers frank assessments of regulatory and future car/bike/scooter technologies. As a Director in the Global Automotive Practice, Roger has a powerful voice in the definition of future trends in automotive safety, powertrain, and infotainment systems. He draws more than 30 years’ experience in the technology industry as an analyst, journalist, and consultant.
Covering all things safety in and around the bike lane. The Bike Lane theme music by Daniel Sommers
Roger Lanctot: The future is the
world where you're pulling into
the city, uh, on the highway.
And there's a big billboard that
says accept cookies for that city.
So then, you know, all the signal,
phase and timing, you know, where all
the work zones are, you know, all the
critical information you need to know.
It's all infused into your vehicle.
Jake Sigal: Welcome to the bike lane.
I'm your host.
Jake
Sigal with us today is Roger Lanctot,
director in the global automotive
practice at strategy analytics,
which is now owned by tech insights
as director of automotive mobility
and the global automotive practice.
Roger has a powerful voice in the
definition of future trends and automotive
safety powertrain in infotainment systems.
Roger draws on more than 30 years
experience in technology industry as an.
Journalist and consultants he's conducted
and participated in major industry
studies, created new research products
and services and advised numerous
clients on strategy and competitive
issues throughout his entire career.
Roger is a prolific blogger and frequent
keynote speaker at industry events.
He's on the advisory boards at
Automobility LA part of the LA auto show
and the it's future networked car event.
His industry leadership has been
recognized with him recently being
inducted into the tu auto hall of.
And pharma last but not least.
Roger's a friend and long time
supporter of the American innovation
within the automotive community.
He was a big supporter of me
personally, and our first company
Livia, which was acquired by Ford.
Roger has always been down with
creating better and faster user
experiences and a true tech eye.
Roger welcome to the bike lane.
Roger Lanctot: Thanks a lot, Jake,
Jake Sigal: let's start off
first with your background and,
and just talk to our listeners.
And, and many of the folks are,
are in the business community with
an automotive about how you first
got into tech and automotive.
I know it's a, a great story.
Roger Lanctot: Well, I came in
through, into it, through the retail.
Point of sales side of the market
research industry and, and consulting
in that space, uh, when PCs were
big and stores like staples and
office Depot, best buy and circuit
city and computer city, remember
computer city and incredible universe.
Oh yeah.
Uh, were just getting in the business and,
and bringing technology to the masses.
And then I transitioned into, uh,
telematics research with telematics
research group and connected cars.
And I was really, I have
to be perfectly honest.
Skeptical.
And, and I have to say the, the founder
of that company was kind of a, a,
definitely a car enthusiast, and I'm
more of, uh, somebody you'd call, uh,
car tolerant and, uh, but you know,
uh, I'm all about technology and then
who isn't interested in saving lives
and, uh, clearly vehicle connectivity,
uh, is a providing that step towards
that life saving, uh, uh, proposition.
And so.
Dove in and started traveling
the world, rounding up clients
for Teles research group.
And then, uh, I supply after they
acquired them and then transitioned
into strategy analytics where.
Moved a little bit more into the forefront
at speaking at more events and carrying
the flag for, uh, using technology
to save lives, save money, save time.
And, um, also, uh, in spite of not being
a car enthusiast, making sure I had a car
that was a little bit more up to date.
So I've been driving BMW ever since
I started at strategy analytics
and I continue to drive BMWs today.
Jake Sigal: It's a great story.
And one of the things
that I've always been.
Attracted to, but also critical
of is that in Detroit, it feels
like we're always driving and
riding in the latest and greatest.
I feel when I first moved to Michigan
from east coast, I was like, wow, like
everybody here drives big three auto.
And one of the things that's,
uh, very different from not
being from Michigan is that.
The people in Michigan
always have the latest gear.
Therefore, I think a lot of people in
industry don't realize just how long
vehicles are on the road in lifespan.
I mean that, you know it, you see
it, but then when you, you actually
realize that the decisions that they
make have impacts in some cases, 15
or 20 years after those decisions.
And it.
Sometimes 10 years for those,
those, uh, new products come
in to, to really be there.
So the, the fact that you are coming
at this from an automotive perspective
without being like a, a, a born and
raised Detroit person, I think brings
a really, in some cases, sobering
look to, um, uh, various connected
systems and, and how fast they are to
use for, for, for many of the types
of solutions that have been out there.
Roger Lanctot: Jake, what
are you talking about?
My parents met in Detroit.
My father went to Case technical.
Geez, come.
Jake Sigal: I know, but
you know what I mean?
East coast guy, it's, it's, uh, I
mean, I'm not an east coast guy.
I'm from Ohio, a truthfully
to, but, uh, I just, it's not,
it's just a, I know, I know.
Right.
But , um OHIO University, not
Ohio state, sorry for all the
Ohio state fans out there.
I'm actually from Columbus
originally, all that.
But, um, so let's talk a little bit
about connected vehicles and automotives.
So in the past few years, which have been
just crazy with, you know, chip, she chip
set shortages and things alike, what are,
what are you seeing as some of the biggest
changes that, that have kind of come.
For in your desk the last, last few years?
Roger Lanctot: Well, obviously it's all
about COVID and, uh, in the early days
of COVID, you know, all of a sudden
the space that I work most directly in,
uh, mobility suddenly was vaporized.
You know, no one, no one.
Is using, you know, micro mobility, all
of a sudden, uh, no one's, you know,
using shared cars, there's nowhere to go.
Schools are shut down.
Businesses are shut down.
People are working from home.
Uh, ride hailing, took a big hit and very
quickly, actually just in a period of
months, micro mobility came back strong.
It benefited from the fact that the
doors were opening to, to micro mobility.
From a regulatory standpoint, simultaneous
with, uh, doors reopening after, uh,
the easing of COVID, uh, restrictions.
But, uh, people actually
liked the idea of car sharing.
So car sharing recovered quickly.
Thank goodness.
Uh, and ride hailing has also
recovered with the help of
delivery, which COVID brought us.
So what COVID introduced into the market,
uh, aside from the, the supply chain
issues, which is obviously exceptionally
unfortunate, Which persists to this day,
but COVID has strangely brought forth
a greater mix of transportation options
on roads, both urban and suburban.
And we're seeing much more
dedicated lanes in, in urban areas.
And we're seeing mobility, micro
mobility expand and flourish.
So that means when you're
driving a car today.
And, and of course the demand
for vehicles came back strong.
Once the doors opened again, and people
were going back to work, uh, you're
encountering more, two wheeled vehicles
now, uh, as well as pedestrians.
And so we went from empty streets
to even busier streets than before,
and a more complex scape, which is
putting new demands on the industry.
So the, the, the chip shortage, uh, situ.
Is a problem.
And I, I felt it personally, I have a
2022, uh, X three BMW, and my digital
radio was deleted and my, uh, digital
key was deleted on the vehicle.
And, uh, the lumbar support
on the passenger seat, but
I, I, I'm quite confident.
I'm not the only one seeing featured
deletions on their new cars, but more
importantly, the streets scape has
become more complex, which means we
have a greater need for solutions.
Jake Sigal: Were you have heard
a lot about this on, on our show,
on the bike lane, uh, Noah bunion
from people for bikes was talking
about the infrastructure changes.
Even I was watching the tour
of France wrap up this weekend.
And as they go around in Paris on the
Chan, they, they even mentioned the
commentators were mentioning about, there
was some discussion about removing cars
from this massive 24, 7 busy roadway.
Roger, how, how are the, how's the
industry and looking at these types of
infrastructure changes, um, opening up the
door a little bit about the infrastructure
bill, but can you talk a little bit.
This discussion because a lot of
the discussion points we've had
and you, and I've talked about this
for feels like a decade plus feels
like it's actually now moving.
So I'm curious back to what
these infrastructure changes
for micro mobility lanes.
How are the auto companies, uh, looking
at this or are they being embraced?
Is it, is it accelerating?
Is it a wait and see?
Like what, what's your, what's your
read on this?
Roger Lanctot: I, I think the
challenges are going to become
even more severe because there.
A struggle going on.
If you're a city planner to get people
back into public transportation,
in some places, people have gone
back, but, but not universally.
So, and so people have
jumped back into their cars.
You know, you have this big metal
cage protecting you against all the
microbes that might be out there.
And, and auto makers have made
accommodations to make cars safer.
Germ free environments, uh, with regard
to the, the broader trends, uh, towards
cities, particularly in Europe, but
not, not only in Europe, discouraging
vehicles from entering the cityscape
and, and, and the urban environment.
That's a movement that I do not believe
is going to go away and, uh, What you're,
what I'm hearing is, uh, an increasing
recognition that if we're looking to
build out the charging infrastructure,
cities may be actually discouraging
the, the creation of a lot of charging
infrastructure within the city.
In other words, really, you know,
rolling up the, the red carpet in
terms of limiting parking, limiting,
charging options, do not bring
your car into the city center.
Thank you very much.
Mm-hmm and.
What we had pre COVID was
actually a lot of resistance to
micro mobility, uh, post COVID.
Uh, it's a wholehearted embrace.
Uh e-bikes are, you know,
there's some talk about eBikes,
outselling, EVs, uh, EV cars.
So this is a complete.
Lifestyle behavioral change that
is being promoted and embraced.
And as for how automakers are
coping with it, automakers can't
make enough cars right now.
Mm-hmm , which is why prices
are, are still going up.
So I'm not sure the extent
to which automakers feel they
have a problem at the moment.
People like cars, they're getting
cars, these policy decisions, it
will take, uh, you know, it will
take more time for them to, to play
out.
Jake Sigal: It's an interesting
point you made about where
charging networks are going.
I mean, I know like the old school
playbook, which probably still is
probably gonna be around 30 years from
now is, is only allow parking for the
number of cars you want in a city.
And, you know, new York's
done very well with that.
And.
We haven't even touched on autonomous
vehicles, including level three,
but just from a, a battery electric
vehicle per sta standpoint is for
people that are commuting from, uh,
the greater New York area down from
Connecticut or over from New Jersey,
there's not gonna be a range issue, but.
Where I live.
Like if people end up going back to work
full time, uh, five days a week, we're
just gonna see just another arm, uh, karma
getin situation on I, 75 from, uh, the
suburbs, uh, going south, or, uh, kind
of pick your freeway that you wanna be in
where maybe having reduced charging, but.
That probably in, in conjunction
with an increase in public transit
options will, will be there.
It's not something that we've really
discussed on this show much about
how to limit the amount of vehicles.
And when you start enabling some more
of these micro mobility transit lanes,
and you realize how quickly you can
get D down from one place to the next.
Adding range for an eBike.
I mean, there's, there's
definitely something there.
And how do you think that the interest
rates going up and the issues of,
of leaving, like the tax credit for
battery electric vehicles plays out?
And I don't even know.
I used to ask a question like this
and say three years out, but I don't
even know if that's the right term.
So I'll just leave it open ended
with micro mobility, infrastructure
planning as a function of interest
rates and, and, uh, Bev tax credits.
Roger Lanctot: Well, first of
all, it's pretty clear that
people want to get back into cars.
The demand for cars.
Intense.
And it's funny where the conversation
around EVs is slowly shifting from,
you know, nobody wants 'em to, well,
some people want them maybe like
20% of consumers who want an EV uh,
I think industry executives who are
still manufacturing, IC E vehicles
are whistling past the graveyard that
that figure could shift very quickly.
I'm not, I'm not convinced that that's
a, a, a gradual shift, you know, the.
People's uh, uh, inclinations
are influenced on this.
People have seen the Teslas multiply and
they're rapidly becoming aware that there
are alternatives clearly, you know, Ford
and Hyundai and Volkswagen and, and a
growing list of, of alternative Toyota.
Uh, and so that, that
shift might come faster.
and be only constrained by supply.
Uh, I'm actually kind of shocked
at how, you know, reasonably
priced EVs are right now.
Uh, and that may be because the, the
tax credit proposition, uh, isn't
quite as compelling as a, a straight
up rebate, uh, on, on getting an EV
mm-hmm , but more and more people.
And, and so it has a kind of a momentum
to it are seeing their neighbor with
the EV and I think more and more people
are making that decision quietly.
This is the last ice vehicle
that I buy right now.
So I think a lot of consumers
are making that decision.
The next car I buy will be in
the EV it may not be next year.
It may not be the year after, but
I'm not buying another ice vehicle.
Um, and in spite of all you hear
about the challenges of, of charging,
uh, what you also hear about is.
Rapid expansion of the existing charging
infrastructure and organizations
that are coming to terms with that.
And there are issues with that.
It's not a simple pro uh, proposition.
It can be hard to find a compatible
available charging station
and get the proper location.
And the, there are debates
growing about how fast chargers
can be almost as expensive.
Running your vehicle with gasoline,
uh, depending on whether you're
using high test or regular.
And so overcoming all these complexities
does remain a, a sort of a, a mitigating
factor in, in the adoption of EVs.
But, uh, I, I think we're we're well, on
our way to that transition timing wise.
Uh, I, I, we have a forecast.
I don't have it to hand, but I, I think
generally speaking it's likely to happen
faster than, than people anticipate.
Jake Sigal: Yeah, I really,
I hope that's the case.
Like, uh, I'm sure.
Um, most listeners, uh, to the,
to the show that the internal
combustion engine ice vehicles.
There there's still gonna be a place.
I mean, I, I think it's, uh, reminds
me a little bit of the turntable
that, uh, I still love in my vinyl
collection, which is dwindled, but
still there, and time and place for it.
But, uh, I do think that.
At some point, it's gonna come
down to just dollars and cents for
people looking to own a vehicle.
So as long as vehicles are owned and used
and personally owned vehicles, whether
they're owned or leased to be clear,
it comes down to that monthly payment
for, I, I don't know the percentage,
but I gotta think it's over 90%.
It's a monthly payment issue and the,
um, the tax credits, uh, the, the rising
interest rates and then the feature push.
So I, I, um, I think that, and
kind of bring walking this back
a little bit to E mobility.
And, and just in general bike
lanes is people being more open
to it and your, your comment is.
Right on about, uh, people are
saying like, this is the last
ice vehicle or, or gonna split.
I've also heard from some other, uh,
sources that people are looking to split
the home, or one, one will have one
ice vehicle for the big trips and we'll
have that one for going around town.
And hopefully there's a, a
much wider adoption is, uh,
uh, kind of reminds me of.
My dad, obviously I love my dad.
He, he was always trying to get him
to try new food and, and, um, kind
of old school liked what he liked.
And, you know, you kind of have to like
open up the, at Thanksgiving to a couple
new things before you, you bust out kind
of the crazy new food for Thanksgiving.
And I think maybe, maybe automotive
might be seeing something along
the same lines where to get people
really open to a world where.
There's bikes and scooters and e-bikes,
wasn't around maybe that first experience
where they've got, uh, an electric
vehicle they're now embracing it.
And then they're also getting a
package delivered from USPS on, from
an electric postal service vehicle,
or maybe it's a, a last mile delivery
cargo bike dropping something off that
that might just be enough to kind of
help create a different vibe within
the, the communities people live in to
accept these types of transportation.
Roger Lanctot: Well,
there's two, two issues,
um, that I'm thinking as I'm
listening to you, and one is.
Uh, speed to market and, uh,
the software defined vehicle.
So one of my sons has a Tesla
and he just paid $200 to have,
uh, an autopilot to function.
Activated for a week that he
was on vacation for automated
passing and, and, and such.
And that brings to mind the
issue facing the entire industry.
If it's a software defined vehicle, the
software is going to require updates.
Basically, am I buying a car
or a license to access all this
software that's in the car.
So the auto makers are having to, to
have these long term relationships
with their software providers where.
Paying, you know, licensing fees on
an annual basis, but they haven't
adjusted the model around selling
the car, uh, to have an ongoing
relationship with the customer.
Um, and that's a problem.
That's a big, big disconnect in
the industry, uh, with regard to
two wheeled vehicles, they, that.
That those vehicles don't last at 11
to 15 years that we hear about with
cars and that's so, both good and bad.
The, the good part of it is those VE
those vehicles, those, uh, E scooters
and e-bikes are evolving very rapidly
towards they're becoming more rugged.
So they are lasting a little bit longer.
And we're seeing the more broad
adoption of swappable batteries, which
again becomes a business model issue.
Mm-hmm
And so.
This is a very fast moving space and
the pieces, uh, you know, on the, on
this, uh, chess board, if you will,
are, are, are moving very rapidly.
Uh, not, not staying in one place.
The issues are changing.
And so, uh, regulators open the door
to E scooters and then they're opening
the door wider and wider and wider.
And.
Don't underestimate that dedicated
lane stuff because that's, that's real.
And, uh, that is happening
all over the world.
Jake Sigal: A great
point about the swappable batteries
and some, some key improvements.
Uh, we have Bob Marus who's the EVP
had specialized on last month's show
and the bike lane and talked quite
a bit about the e-bike growth and,
and just the pace and the, the, like
how affordable they're becoming.
And.
The legislation's in place.
So the, and just working through it,
you brought up a great point about
the, uh, the SAS business model, where
you charge this fee to a company.
And, and then historically in SAS,
not even automotive related, you'd
either charge a receipt fee or you'd
charge some dollar amount, which
covers up to X number of seats.
So in the automotive example, it could be
a company that's selling safety service
software, and they tell an OEM for.
X million dollars a year on a 10 year
contract, your entire fleet is covered.
And, but they, they would not historically
be selling that when you buy the
vehicle and, and people that are my
agent owner, and I'm, I'm 40, about 41.
It's like clearly not used to having a
subscription service in a car where gen Z
is probably a lot more, uh, accommodating
for the subscription services.
I also learn.
And, and this is, this
is kinda interesting.
I wasn't thinking about this prior
to the show, but we're hearing the
same thing for the its providers.
The intelligent transportation system
providers is that cities and hopefully
the infrastructure bill will help here,
but cities are used to buying a black box.
They bolt that black box on a pole for
my terrace or 3m or somebody, or, and
they're like, I don't pay for software.
I buy the box.
So you have companies like auto talk, um,
giving them a great plug, great company.
Making these roadside units known as RSU.
Everything's got an acronym
in, in the its community.
They would buy these boxes
for six grand or 10 grand.
And that's how they've, uh,
funded the cost of developing
and maintaining software.
Where now you have programs from
either products from Qualcomm or
even products from companies like
Cisco that are its service providers.
And they're like, look, you can get
your platform set up, but you gotta
go to a different supplier for that.
So just like you mentioned
from a consumer stand.
I think that same issue
might be in front of us.
Well with cities is that they're gonna
have to shift over to a, a SAS model
and maybe the whole business community
just has to learn more about SAS
and get, get comfortable with that.
Roger Lanctot: Well, I think you're
going to see more like the crown
castle American tower kind of model.
So there will be, there will be mass in
cities, maybe even on every corner where.
A provider that owns that ma is
leasing out space to the various
different connectivity propositions,
whether it's, and you know, we've
got this 5g densification problem.
Uh, we, you know, You had the cruise, a
cruise automation vehicles come, you know,
come to a stop and jam up the streets.
They found a white zone.
We need densification
of the cellular network.
It's just not good enough, uh,
for what we're trying to do.
And so, uh, you know, the future is the
world where you're pulling into the city,
uh, on the highway and there's a big.
Billboard that says, accept cookies,
accept cookies for that city.
So then, you know, all the signal phase
and time, and you know, where all the
work zones are, mm-hmm, , you know,
all the critical information you need
to know about, you know, what streets
are shut down or one way and all that
it's all infused into your vehicle.
Mm-hmm and you're sharing
your information in real time.
And, uh, it, in the end further to this.
Better communications between those
two wheel and four wheel vehicles.
And when you talked about the its
community, I hate to say it, but they
are so far behind the eight ball on,
on getting up to speed to where they
need to be in terms of integrating
cameras and LIDAR and, um, uh, bringing
in CV to X, uh, kinds of technology.
Maybe even satellite has a role
to play for back haul at at least.
But, um, we have a very primitive
road network today and we need a.
Big step forward from,
uh, from the its folks.
Yeah,
Jake Sigal: I agree.
They, they are responding quickly.
I had a, a great conversation
with the labor union of, uh,
work zone workers and out in DC.
And, um, and they're, they're really
leaning in on this and there's a lot
of other worker issues that are out
there for, for people on the roadways,
whether we're talking police, fire.
Construction workers, uh, roadside people,
uh, I mean, people that are like at the,
in the most vulnerable state and that's
something that we think is the lowest,
uh, the first priority day, one use cases.
And when you mentioned about you enter
a city and hopefully that Papa doesn't
cover up anything important when you,
when you get that or your car doesn't
pull off the side of the road, unless
you accept terms, I'm still trying to
find the one person that read the iTunes
terms and conditions, uh, cover to cover.
I, I haven't even seen a blog on that.
If someone sees that drop me.
A note on LinkedIn.
Now I'd love to love to share that out.
It'd be kind of funny, but it it's,
um, that type of experience about
going for the vulnerable workers, I
think is where its has done a great
job advancing and looking at things,
just looking for intrusion alarms.
Um, I mean, HAAS alerts done
a fantastic job bringing in.
I mean, they were first through the
wall, they got bloody doing it, but they,
they were first through the wall to get.
Notifications of these types of, for,
uh, first responder vehicles going out.
And now they're supporting the, as
you, as you may know, Roger, we've got
the work zone data exchange, which is
supported by, by the federal government.
And I'm really encouraged to see that.
And I mean, there's a lot of
work that still needs to be
done on the two wheel comment.
We've got our consortium, uh, shameless
plug here for, for the consortium,
but the SAE vulnerable road, user
consortium that we brought up and Roger
you're there at the first workshop.
And we working on that for years.
So.
It's happening.
And I feel like it, it is accelerating,
but, um, it always feels like it's not
fast enough, but I I've been telling
people forever that, uh, less forever,
but for at least the last 10 years that
it's it's, um, things just take time
with these type of legacy industries
where primary innovation would be asphalt
products or other sorts of things.
And now, now we're moving to digital.
Roger Lanctot: Well, there was
a, there was a big, uh, infrastructure
event some months ago and, and
the, uh, award winning you.
Uh, product designs were for connected
street signs, you know, like warning signs
and, and I guess cones and things, which
was sort of like, uh, okay, that's a step
in the right direction, but actually the
workers, you know, get a vest on that guy.
Uh, or that, that woman, uh, so a,
and get the solution in the car as
Stant has done with adopting host
alert, as you say, uh, so that the,
the driver can get those signals.
Hey, there's someone right
at the edge of the road that
you're driving down right now.
Mm-hmm, be careful mm-hmm and,
uh, that applies to, to bikes.
I was just talking to a guy with a
company called emergency safety solutions.
That's for individuals who have to pull.
To work on their vehicles.
I I'm, I'm sure you're like me,
you see someone get a flat tire
on the side of the road and you're
thinking to yourself, I'm not even
gonna try to change that flat tire.
I, you know, I'm gonna leave
that to the professionals.
It's too dangerous.
Um, so we, we, yes, we have a problem
there and it, it may be, you know,
Uh, hundreds of people that are
killed in these scenarios every
year, but that's, uh, you know,
that's hundreds of people, too many.
Mm-hmm we, we need to solve that problem.
Jake Sigal: Yeah.
There's we, we're doing a lot of work
in industry to help sync up and align
with folks from the.gov community,
including federal highway and its
a I'm really encouraged about CES.
So we were.
Um, in, in a smaller fashion this year,
I I'm really excited about January
with the immobility, uh, expo outside.
I'm I'm looking forward to welcoming
a number of folks from, um, uh, state
DOTs, uh, large city and even, you
know, suburban city DOTs and then the,
the, uh, government folks, cuz really
the there's a lot that has to happen
because you not, it's not just the
tech where in, in the consumer world.
And even to some extent, auto,
if you look at what Tesla.
Straight up, just did like, Hey,
okay, we're just launching this.
And the, the regulators can catch up.
When you talk about like works on
safety or police fire, you gotta
update the uniform guidelines for
the, the state highway safety programs
and go through a number of boards.
Then you've got the standards groups
that for auto, you got groups like
SAE that you have to go through.
And I mean, there's a lot of checks
and balances, which, which help
keep the safe technology safe
and that they, it works properly.
And we hope avoiding, um, like dictated
government regulation that is not.
Promoted by outside industry.
Roger Lanctot: Well,
mandates and dictates aren't
necessarily, uh, horrible.
So NTSA came out and required reporting
of, uh, level two, uh, collisions that
result in fatalities, uh, or injuries.
And, uh, you know, clearly car
companies are under reporting
because the numbers were way too low.
Uh, so, um, something's not right
about that, but more importantly,
Cars are required to have an event.
Data recorder, cars in the us are
not required to have a connection,
but you can't buy a car that
doesn't have a wireless connection.
Why don't we put those two together?
Okay.
That there is an obligation to report that
data out in the event of a crash, uh, and.
That, uh, it's collected.
Now, maybe even more importantly,
that data is communicated directly
to public service access points.
Uh, so there's no delay in
going through a call center.
Mm-hmm to get that data
redirected, uh, to the PSAP.
Now, are the pap ready to
handle this information?
No.
Is NTSA ready to handle this information
and put it to work immediately?
Uh, clearly from the
report they published.
They are not prepared.
Uh, they don't have the resources today,
but we, we, what did they say in the
$6 million man, we have the technology.
We can make them, we can make
these cars better than they are.
Uh, we have the solution,
right, right in our hands.
And, and it may take a mandate to
say, you have to connect the EDR.
To the connection in the card.
Jake Sigal: Yeah.
I, I want to, uh, double down on your
last point that for, uh, PSAP, which
for those of you that are outside of
that industry, we're talking about
the public safety answering points.
So things like 9 1, 1, uh, response
that what I'm hearing, Roger, I
don't wanna make, this is a good kind
of clarification discussion point.
Is that.
Data, um, sharing data sometimes called
data Federation and, and being transparent
about this is pretty important.
A lot of the, the anonymized
making sure there's no personal
identifiable information, PII is
part of it, but getting that data
out can only help improve safety.
My comment was, uh, and I didn't say
this, uh, but I, I wanna clarify that
my comment was more about picking safety
technologies and specific sensor suites
and other things that are heavily.
Lobbied to be in as opposed to
private industry that can bring
forward things that are based
on precompetitive standards.
So if somebody is able to lobby their way
into a regulation, then that particular
private company then kind of holds that,
um, hold can, at least it's possible to
hold that and then increase the cost,
which then decreases the ability for the.
Average person out there to have
this, or in a bicycle standpoint,
which are not licensed vehicles
in, in most areas of the world.
And in my opinion, personal opinion
should not be, I mean, you got someone
that's low income and that's the only
way he or she has a way to get to work.
Last thing we wanna do is make them
put a $300 widget on their bike so
they can use the shared bike lane.
My thought here is that I, I think
that the types of regulation that,
that we would, um, like to, I
guess, discuss a little bit more
are things about being open and
transparent versus things that are.
Proprietary solution and only one or
two, you, you end up in an oligopoly
situation have access to which then
can only rise, rise the cost of it.
But, uh, curious to get your thoughts
on that, Roger.
Roger Lanctot: Well, I think the, the
bigger concern from my perspective
is the regulatory capture of
NITSA by the automotive industry.
There's so many former automotive
engineers that are working within NTSA.
and it seems like everything is
about slowing things down as opposed
to speeding things to market.
And I think you and I both know a lot
of, uh, folks who have beat their head
against, you know, the doors of the U
S D O T trying to get, uh, some new I
safety idea adopted or at least evaluated.
And of course the evaluation process,
the testing, I mean, my hat is off to
the testing that is done there, but.
Creates such a lag in terms of
delivering solutions to the market.
Now with automatic emergency braking,
uh, they, they got the industry to
sort of, so they, so what did they do?
So in under Obama, they
switched to voluntary.
Like mm-hmm to get voluntary, uh,
cooperation in the industry to try to move
things forward a little bit more rapidly.
The only problem being that.
We want a more robust solution
than just automatic emergency
braking, kind of at low speeds.
And that does require some
further testing and evaluation,
uh, to, to get to that standard.
There are some requirements
that are right on the cusp.
All the research has been done such as
the anti drinking technologies that are.
All the research has been done for all the
different solutions that can be applied.
And I believe we're just a year
or two away from, uh, some kind of
regulatory action, uh, requiring,
uh, anti DUI interlock, uh, devices
in the car to prevent drunk driving.
And if, when you look at the data.
Drunk driving is a massive contributor.
So it's not one of these, uh, you know,
the backup camera kind of mandate mm-hmm
, that's going to save, you know, a couple
of hundred, uh, people from being backed
over or, um, the mandate for detecting
someone in the back seat that might save,
you know, a, a few dozen lives a year.
Uh, anti drunk driving, uh,
functionality in the car.
Thousands and thousands of lives.
Mm-hmm so that's a, that that
could be a big breakthrough.
Jake Sigal: Yeah.
We we've always looked at prioritizing
at our company, the, uh, the number of
people that we can help improve, whether
they're fatalities or serious injuries.
And then the other thing is the, uh, the.
We we look at what's the
likelihood of the confidence level.
The technology is ready to deploy
and that people will accept it.
And there are definitely
are some technologies.
And one of the biggest things that we
started with, and this was from the early,
the original, I think it was original
workshop with, with, to Trek and Ford.
Uh, I don't remember what year.
This was a while ago.
And it was like, we should
be focusing on sober drivers.
That are not distracted trying to
do the right thing and cyclists that
are not running four-way stop signs.
And, you know, in the, in like obeying
traffic laws and in the correct place
that where they're supposed to be.
And that was kind of our sandbox
of our starting point because, um,
you end up opening up a bit of a
Pandora's box with other issues.
When you look at.
Creating protection schemes
for people that are behaving
inappropriately or illegally.
So, uh, to your point, I think that as we
look@thesetypesofsafetyoptionsandworkwith.gov,
I, I think for listeners today is
like, if you, maybe one of the things
that you could take away from, from
this, this discussion is what are
some of the features and functionality
within safety active or passive.
That can kind of meet a criteria where
it would be welcomed by the other side
or by regulators where they would go.
Yeah.
And probably
precompetitive as well.
Roger Lanctot: Well, here's an example,
driver monitoring systems, which
are becoming a requirement in Europe
and are likely to become standard in
the us, whether we mandated or not.
Um, and the perfect example
of that is super crews.
If you wanna use super crews,
you're going to have to agree
to be monitored by the system to
make sure you're paying attention.
Mm-hmm , but there's a.
Value proposition in having that driver
monitoring technology, which is maybe
you get credentialed in the car with
facial recognition, which is actually
quite popular in widespread in China.
And then, you know, you don't have
to get in the car and have that
moment is, is my phone connecting?
Is it not connecting?
Mm-hmm it scans your face in a,
in a flash your personal cloud,
whether it's Amazon, apple.
Or Google or all of the above is
immediately infused into the car.
Uh, and when you leave the car, by
the way, it's deleted and removed.
Um, but the point is.
Uh, the car knows me, knows my
destinations knows everything.
It doesn't have to retain it in the
vehicle it's in the cloud, but immediately
activated with facial recognition.
And oh, by the way, that facial
recognition is there as a safety
measure, to make sure you're
paying attention and not falling
asleep or having a medical problem.
Jake Sigal: Wow.
That's, that's a great way to put it.
So there's something in it for everybody.
So you're trading off some anonymity
or trading off some, some sum of
your privacy for a better experience
and also safety for those of
you in the vehicle and around.
Exactly.
I hope that works.
uh, I think there's,
there's something there.
So for all of the engineers
and engineering management,
Teams that are listening there.
There's something there from Roger.
Uh, as we, as we begin to wrap up on,
on the show, I'm, I'm curious as what
hot topics are you seeing for the next?
And I normally would say like, like
year, but almost to say this summer
and the fall, like what's hot right
now that you're tracking personally.
Roger Lanctot: Well, I
think this whole world of
semi-automated driving, you know, the
super crew's kind of functionality.
I think it's nothing less than shocking.
Uh, that's such.
Uh, pioneering, uh, almost terrifying, uh,
feature has be, has, uh, been converted
into a commonplace, uh, enhancement
to, uh, GM vehicles and is spreading
rapidly through the product line.
And it, uh, lets people take
their hands off the wheel.
Uh, the idea being, of course,
you're on a long drive, it's tiring.
Uh, but as long as you're paying
attention, you, you can do that.
You can take your hands off the wheel
and I, I have to take GM's word for it.
We haven't done our.
Uh, consumer surveys on this subject,
but the, the feedback is, is very
positive and almost every other
competing auto maker on the planet is
working on this, uh, kind of technology.
And this actually makes sense.
Uh, and it begins to address what Tesla's
overall advantage is, which is Tesla
is allowing its computers to learn.
From the humans, it's allowing the humans
to teach the computers, how to drive.
That makes sense to me.
And that is a huge, competitive advantage
that Tesla has that, of course, in the
fact that Tesla controls practically
its entire aftermarket, which is very
profitable, uh, piece of business, robo
taxis, I think are just utter nonsense.
And, um, I I'm, I've still.
Struggling to see what the collateral
value proposition might, might be.
That could be derived from them
because robo taxis, you're taking a
computer that that's trying to figure
out how humans drive on its own by
looking at all the, by reacting to the
environment and operating based on,
you know, certain rules and algorithms.
And, uh, I, I just don't think that's.
Going to work, the Tesla approach,
allowing the humans to teach
the computers, how humans drive.
That makes sense to me, humans
actually drive pretty well
in spite of what you've read.
Jake Sigal: And one
last question for the show.
Any favorite podcast,
newsletters or shows that.
You listen to, to, uh, stay up
on things you can share with our
listeners?
Roger Lanctot: Well, it's a little quirky
listening to Ellen corn house or on smart
driving car, but, uh, every now and then
he, uh, he gets a, gets a gem, a, a good,
uh, uh, visitor O on the podcast and,
um, uh, his insights cuz he's training
the future generation of autonomous
vehicle developers at Princeton.
Uh, so Keith he's worth a listen.
Pete Bigelow at shift gets a, a.
Decent guests every now and again.
Uh, so those would be the two non
automotive I'd say skullduggery.
Jake Sigal: Awesome.
We will make sure to put those
links into the description.
Thanks, Roger.
Roger Lanctot director and the global
automotive practice at strategy analytics.
Uh, now part of tech insights,
please be sure to follow
Roger and join the over 190.
Thousand followers, LinkedIn.
Wow.
That's, that's insane on, uh, on,
uh, LinkedIn and check him out.
I'm your host, Jake Siegel.
Thanks again for listening.
And we'll see you next
time in The Bike Lane..