Episode 122: The Actions of One, with Julie of Mary Rose Boutique

In 2020, Julie had a thriving business selling fast fashion. But a mountain of plastic trash in her warehouse helped her realize that she wanted to do something most of the fashion industry deems unthinkable: she wanted to transform her business into a size inclusive, slow fashion brand. Also: support Etsy sellers' demand for better policies and accountability from the platform.

Show Notes

In 2020, Julie had a thriving business selling fast fashion. But a mountain of plastic trash in her warehouse helped her realize that she wanted to do something most of the fashion industry deems unthinkable/impossible: she wanted to transform her business into a size inclusive, slow fashion brand. Also: support Etsy sellers' demand for better policies and accountability from the platform. Sign the petition here.

Find and follow Julie here:
@maryrose.boutique, @hope.continues
maryrosenwboutique.com

Holy cow, Amanda was interviewed by The Cut! Read it here!

Ready to submit your audio essay? Send it to [e-mail].

Let’s make art simple- together! Check out Let’s Make Art today by going to my special link,zen.ai/clotheshorse to get 20% off. Coupon code is activated at checkout!

If you’re a maker who has been thinking about starting your own business using upcycled materials and you would like to turn it into a full time job that actually pays your bills, then check out the Rags to Riches Virtual Textile Upcycling Summit on April 20-22nd!

Clotheshorse is brought to you with support from the following sustainable brands:

Located in Whistler, Canada, Velvet Underground is a "velvet jungle" full of vintage and second-hand clothes, plants, a vegan cafe and lots of rad products from other small sustainable businesses. Our mission is to create a brand and community dedicated to promoting self-expression, as well as educating and inspiring a more sustainable and conscious lifestyle both for the people and the planet.

Find us on Instagram @shop_velvetunderground or online at www.shopvelvetunderground.com

Cute Little Ruin is an online shop dedicated to providing quality vintage and secondhand clothing, vinyl, and home items in a wide range of styles and price points.  If it’s ethical and legal, we try to find a new home for it!  Vintage style with progressive values.  Find us on Instagram at @CuteLittleRuin.

Thumbprint is Detroit's only fair trade marketplace, located in the historic Eastern Market.  Our small business specializes in products handmade by empowered women in South Africa making a living wage creating things they love like hand painted candles and ceramics! We also carry a curated assortment of  sustainable/natural locally made goods. Thumbprint is a great gift destination for both the special people in your life and for yourself! Browse our online store at thumbprintdetroit.com and find us on instagram @thumbprintdetroit.

Country Feedback is a mom & pop record shop in Tarboro, North Carolina. They specialize in used rock, country, and soul and offer affordable vintage clothing and housewares. Do you have used records you want to sell? Country Feedback wants to buy them! Find us on Instagram @countryfeedbackvintageandvinyl or head downeast and visit our brick and mortar. All are welcome at this inclusive and family-friendly record shop in the country!

Selina Sanders, a social impact brand that specializes in up-cycled clothing, using only reclaimed, vintage or thrifted materials: from tea towels, linens, blankets and quilts.  Sustainably crafted in Los Angeles, each piece is designed to last in one's closet for generations to come.  Maximum Style; Minimal Carbon Footprint

Salt Hats:  purveyors of truly sustainable hats. Hand blocked, sewn and embellished in Detroit, Michigan.

Republica Unicornia Yarns: Hand-Dyed Yarn and notions for the color-obsessed. Made with love and some swearing in fabulous Atlanta, Georgia by Head Yarn Wench Kathleen. Get ready for rainbows with a side of Giving A Damn! Republica Unicornia is all about making your own magic using small-batch, responsibly sourced, hand-dyed yarns and thoughtfully made notions. Slow fashion all the way down and discover the joy of creating your very own beautiful hand knit, crocheted, or woven pieces. Find us on Instagram @republica_unicornia_yarns and at www.republicaunicornia.com.

Gentle Vibes:  We are purveyors of polyester and psychedelic relics! We encourage experimentation and play not only in your wardrobe, but in your home, too. We have thousands of killer vintage pieces ready for their next adventure! 

Picnicwear:  a slow fashion brand, ethically made by hand from vintage and deadstock materials - most notably, vintage towels! Founder, Dani, has worked in the industry as a fashion designer for over 10 years, but started Picnicwear in response to her dissatisfaction with the industry's shortcomings. Picnicwear recently moved to rural North Carolina where all their clothing and accessories are now designed and cut, but the majority of their sewing is done by skilled garment workers in NYC. Their customers take comfort in knowing that all their sewists are paid well above NYC minimum wage. Picnicwear offers minimal waste and maximum authenticity: Future Vintage over future garbage.

Shift Clothing, out of beautiful Astoria, Oregon, with a focus on natural fibers, simple hardworking designs, and putting fat people first.  Discover more at shiftwheeler.com

No Flight Back Vintage:  bringing fun, new life to old things.  Always using recycled and secondhand materials to make dope ass shit for dope ass people.  See more on instagram @noflightbackvintage

The Pewter Thimble is a curated second hand shop, based out of Rome, Italy. Owner Desiree Marie Townley has a background in costuming and makeup for Dance and Opera, and focuses on dressing for the character you want to be in the world. Curated collections are dropped in a story sale and always have a specialized theme, like the color palette of Starry Night, the film classic Casablanca, and the children's novel The Secret Garden.  Desiree works with local artisans and pieces are rescued from markets and rehabilitated and resold with worldwide shipping. The Pewter Thimble is a collection of pieces that will have Eternal Style, from the Eternal City. Discover more on instagram @thepewterthimble.

Late to the Party, creating one of a kind statement clothing from vintage, salvaged and thrifted textiles. They hope to tap into the dreamy memories we all hold: floral curtains, a childhood dress, the wallpaper in your best friend’s rec room, all while creating modern sustainable garments that you'll love wearing and have for years to come. Late to the Party is passionate about celebrating and preserving textiles, the memories they hold, and the stories they have yet to tell. Check them out on Instagram!

Vino Vintage, based just outside of LA.  We love the hunt of shopping secondhand because you never know what you might find! And catch us at flea markets around Southern California by following us on instagram @vino.vintage so you don’t miss our next event! 

Gabriela Antonas is a visual Artist, an ethical trade fashion designer, but Gabriela Antonas is also a radical feminist micro-business.  She’s the one woman band, trying to help you understand, why slow fashion is what the earth needs.  The one woman band, to help you build your brand ! She can take your fashion line from just a concept, and do your sketches, pattern making, grading, sourcing, cutting and sewing for you. Or the second option is  for those who aren’t trying to start a business, and who just want ethical garments! Gabriela will create custom garments for you. Her goal is to help one person, of any size, at a time, including beyond size 40.   For inquiries about this serendipitous intersectional offering of either concept DM her on Instagram to book a consultation. Please follow her on Instagram, Twitter, and Clubhouse at @gabrielaantonas

Dylan Paige is an online clothing and lifestyle brand based out of St. Louis, MO. Our products are chosen with intention for the conscious community. Everything we carry is animal friendly, ethically made, sustainably sourced, and cruelty free. Dylan Paige is for those who never stop questioning where something comes from. We know that personal experience dictates what's sustainable for you, and we are here to help guide and support you to make choices that fit your needs.  Check us out at dylanpaige.com and find us on instagram @dylanpaigelifeandstyle

Blank Cass, or Blanket Coats by Cass, is focused on restoring, renewing, and reviving the history held within vintage and heirloom textiles. By embodying and transferring the love, craft, and energy that is original to each vintage textile into a new garment, I hope we can reteach ourselves to care for and mend what we have and make it last. Blank Cass lives on Instagram @blank_cass and a website will be launched soon at blankcass.com.

Caren Kinne Studio:  Located in Western Massachusetts, Caren specializes in handcrafted earrings from found, upcycled, and repurposed fabrics as well as other eco-friendly curios,  all with  a hint of nostalgia, a dollop of whimsy, a dash of color and 100% fun.  Caren is an artist/designer who believes the materials we use matter. See more on Instagram @carenkinnestudio

St. Evens is an NYC-based vintage shop that is dedicated to bringing you those special pieces you’ll reach for again and again. More than just a store, St. Evens is dedicated to sharing the stories and history behind the garments. 10% of all sales are donated to a different charitable organization each month. For the month of April, St. Evens is supporting United Farm Worker’s Foundation. New vintage is released every Thursday at wearStEvens.com, with previews of new pieces and more brought to you on Instagram at @wear_st.evens.

Creators & Guests

Host

Amanda Lee McCarty

What is Clotheshorse with Amanda Lee McCarty?

Host Amanda Lee McCarty (she/they) decodes and demystifies the fashion and retail industries, and takes on topics like consumerism, workers rights, personal style, and why fashion is a case study in capitalism gone awry.
Your money is as powerful as your vote!
"If you wear clothes, you need to listen to Clotheshorse." --Elise
"If you are human and live in the world, you need to listen to Clotheshorse." --Individually Wrapped

Welcome to Clotheshorse, the podcast that is sometimes nostalgic for the simpler days of MySpace.

I’m your host, Amanda and this is episode 122. Today you’ll be meeting Julie, the CEO of Mary Rose Boutique, designer of Hope Continues, and founder of the Mary Rose Foundation. I’m going to give you a heads up that we will be talking about anti-fat bias and eating disorders for the last ⅓ of our conversation and it’s totally okay to skip that section. Julie did something that is kinda unheard of, totally difficult to execute, and yet incredibly impactful: she made the decision to switch from selling fast fashion to becoming a sustainable and ethical small business. You’ll hear all about it in our conversation!

Before we move on, let’s do some housekeeping:
New episodes of Clotheshorse will now be released late in the day on Sunday or even Monday morning. Why? Because I’m just going to be honest that working a full time job and running Clotheshorse–remember I do this by myself–is a lot. And maybe some day I’ll get to just work on Clotheshorse, but right now it’s just not possible. Over the last few months I have worked 9 to 6 or 7 or 8 at my day job, then shifted into working on Clotheshorse until bedtime. Remember, it’s not just podcast episodes, it’s instagram posts and conversations with guests and so much correspondence and scheduling. TBH I’m super behind on my emails because I never get a chance to just sit down and do those. Maybe I’ll do that tonight? Anyway, this has been a very difficult pace to keep up. So I’m trying a new thing where I don’t work on Saturdays at all! Normally I would jump out of bed at 7am and work on Clotheshorse all day until the episode was done. Because there’s a lot to do! From writing and recording my segments, to creating transcripts, writing show notes, and making the instagram posts. I have to make the post on squarespace and upload all kinds of stuff. That’s after I’ve spent weeknight evenings recording with guests and editing interviews. So now I’m going to do most of the Saturday work on Sundays. It’s really luxurious to have one day completely free of work and I can feel the difference in my mental health!

Next, I wanted to say (very excitedly) that I was recently interviewed for an article from The Cut about sustainable shopping and I want all of you to read it! I’ll share that link in the show notes!

I also would like to remind you that submissions for the next round of audio essays are due on 4/15, which is a little bit less than two weeks away. Here is the theme: What is a style “rule” that you’re glad to break? What was your journey to realizing that your style was personal and nothing to do with anyone else’s rules and opinions? Or conversely, are you fearful of breaking the rules and why? Tell us about your relationship with how you dress! Your essay should be between 3 to 10 minutes long. And you can record it using your voice memo app on your phone or computer.
You’ll find all the details for submitting your audio essay in the show notes!

I am proud to say that I began my career in fashion by working retail, like literally working in a store. First I was a seasonal part time sales associate (which meant no guaranteed hours, no benefits, or even the expectation that I would have a job in two weeks). Soon I became a department manager, and that would ultimately be the bridge to a surprise career in buying.

Working retail and being a single parent with very little support from anyone else was really fucking hard. Like that’s the biggest understatement ever. When I think back to what a hard time that was, it kind of makes me angry at the world as a whole. My partner had died just a few months before my daughter was born. My entire world had collapsed. I quit my job and moved home with my mom, the last thing I ever wanted to do. I lost my friends, my life as I had known it, and honestly, every single one of my life dreams had been obliterated. I had nothing financially or socially by the time I moved across the country to Portland, OR. But what I did have was the constant fear of homelessness. Of somehow losing my child to the foster care system because I was so broke and unable to provide the way a good upstanding middle class parent would have. I had the constant judginess of society as a whole, that idea that being a single mother meant that I was a bad person, a floozy, a slut, a drain on society. That somehow my child was a punishment for what? Having sex? Being born with a uterus? I’m not sure. It was a gross time to be a young woman.

I was struggling so hard to keep a roof over our heads, to afford diapers and food and all of the other basic needs for myself and my child. And at the same time, I was still dealing with the grief of losing my partner. Grief that would haunt me for well more than a decade and grief that still lives with me today. Back then I cried almost every night. I was sad and scared. And yet I had to pull it together every day to be a good mom and take care of us. I certainly couldn’t tell the world, “Hey world, I had a hard, traumatic childhood, there is really no one in this world who I can count on to love me and support me, I lost the love of my life, and I’m trying my hardest to survive.” Instead I had to act cool, like everything was fine. Because that’s what the world wanted from me: If I was going to have the audacity to be a tattooed single mother, than I sure as hell must act like everything was fine.

But I was desperate for any crumb that came my way. It made me accept shitty people as friends. I dated toxic individuals. And I put up with any and all abuse that I faced at my job because I was always one missed paycheck away from homelessness.

I wish I could go back in time and tell my younger self that she’s doing a great job.

There was a sale associate who worked in my store named Veronica. And she was cool. I really liked her as a person. She had great taste in music and a dry sense of humor. But she was a terrible employee. Constantly late for work and creating non-stop drama when she was finally clocked in for her shift. But I kinda gave her a pass on all of that because I liked her. One day the store manager pulled me into the office and said “hey, I noticed that you haven’t been writing up Veronica when she is late for work.” I kinda shrugged my shoulders because I never wrote people up for being late. Most of us took the bus to work and you know what? Buses are unreliable. I was always on time for work (despite having to wrangle a toddler) because I biked everywhere…mostly because I couldn’t actually afford to take the bus AND my feet were always more reliable.

The store manager (also a person who I liked very much) gave me an ultimatum: write up Veronica the next time she was late or be written up myself. And if that happened, I wouldn’t be eligible for a raise or bonus. These things are a pretty big deal when you are so broke you can’t afford bus fare. So I agreed, fine, okay, I would write her up the next time.

Then I flew home for a few weeks to see my family in Pennsylvania. And while I was there, Veronica was late for work every single day. And so she was written up by other managers and ultimately fired.

I was both sad and relieved.

But then I received a message via MySpace…and it was from Veronica.
You’re a loser. Your family is ashamed of you. You’re a bad mother and the best thing you can do is just die because you’ll never amount to anything. There were a few more statements and they were all equally terrible.

I’m not going to lie. It was pretty hurtful. Especially because–despite my brave facade–I was struggling so hard emotionally and otherwise just to live life every day. To be told that I was still a failure, a loser, not worth living…that was brutal. Yeah, I cried. A lot. I mentioned it to some of my friends (I suppose friends should be in quotes) and they dismissed it and continued to hang out with Veronica. Like I was the one who was wrong for being sensitive.

And I did what so many of us do when faced with situations like this: I gaslighted myself into believing that I was the problem. If I weren’t so sensitive, I would laugh at that message. If I weren’t such a loser, no one would be able to write that message.

Veronica probably forgets sending that message…she probably forgot it immediately, but I never did. I copied it over from notebook to notebook over the years, forcing myself to confront it every day. And at first it was a stern reminder that I had to stop being such a disappointing loser. And for me that meant working hard and advancing in my career. That made me even more desperate for every job and every promotion. And it meant that I overlooked a lot of red flags, toxic bosses, bad behaviors, and all-in-all unethical business practices on the part of my employers. Allowing myself to think about these bad things–since apparently I was such a sensitive crybaby–would only reinforce my loser status. So I just put on my blinders and kept working.

Over the years, I felt kinda proud of myself. Like I was doing something with myself, something that single moms from trailer parks couldn’t do without being especially clever and hardworking. Maybe I was a special person after all. At one point I said to a friend, “I think my family should be proud of me because I’m finally successful.” And that friend–also probably a friend in quotes–responded “you’re not successful.”

This would have been a great time for me to ditch my bad friends, tear that page with Veronica's note out of every notebook, start seeing a therapist, and just kinda restart my life with some healthier habits. But instead I doubled down on it all. I continued to work for bad companies doing bad things. I looked at Veronica’s note in a new way: that it didn’t matter what anyone else said, as long as I was proud of myself. And I was proud of myself for somehow stomaching all of the bad stuff I saw happening around me at work.

This went on for years…until the pandemic. Just recently my boss had said something that had created a massive crack in the way I was working and thinking about myself. She said “you would be more successful in your career if you cared less about the people working for you.” Of course at first I was like “why am I so soft and sensitive and caring about others?” Totally gaslighting myself into being the problem. Crying every morning about what a soft, mushy failure I was.

And then I lost my job. I played the Sims all day. I spent hours on Reddit each day. I tried to pretend that everything was fine. But I had plenty of time to think about my life, my jobs, the industry that had employed me for so long, this industry that had simultaneously made me feel like a success and a failure every single day. What it meant to be a failure, a loser, an embarrassment…and what it also meant to be successful, to be proud of oneself, to feel good about the impact of one’s life.

Clotheshorse was born out of all of this thinking. And I didn’t know what was going to happen with it, but it was a great way to start unpacking the sadness and rage that had been building up inside of me during the years I was working for all of those fast fashion brands. I finally could speak about the bad things I saw happening, why they happened, and how we could all as a community untangle it and force the industry to do better. It gave me a sense of purpose that I had never had before. And you know what, it made me feel proud of myself in a way I never had before.

Something that Julie said multiple times in our conversation has stuck with me since she said it: “The actions of one impact us all.”
And I believe that. When I hear from one of you that something I said here or on instagram made you rethink something you took for granted and make changes based on that…it makes my day, my week, my month. That’s why I’m here. And I can guarantee that information you are sharing with others, changes you are making, stuff you’re posting about on social media or discussing regular day-to-day conversation…these things are making an impact on others around you. We all have so much power, so much influence, so much ability to change the world and make it better. This is something that took me a really long time to figure out, because I thought the best way to have any kind of impact, the path to being “successful”...it would mean keeping my mouth shut, my head down, pushing my feelings into some bin in the corner of my mental closet, and just working and working. I know now that I was wrong.

Veronica’s MySpace message was garbage (and yes, I no longer keep it around thanks to some good advice from my therapist). But I’m sure so many of you have similar stories about someone else making you feel as if you had to be silent and play along. Of someone making you feel like you were a waste, a failure, a loser. Just as those people had the power to make you feel powerless, we all have the power to make others feel good, motivated, excited about a better world. It’s so easy to feel defeated as one person, as a singularity…but we all have the ability to make this world more fair, healthier, happier, and safer…all of the good things. Step one is realizing that. And step two is taking actions, whether it’s something as major as Julie did with her business, or just sharing information with friends. We all count. None of us are a waste or a failure or a loser. And we can lead the world into a better place just by being ourselves, by proudly sharing our feelings and ideas, and by welcoming others to join us.

And speaking of individuals taking action toward big changes: I want to give a shout to Kristi Cassidy and what she is doing to force change and accountability from Etsy. Kristi has been selling on Etsy since 2007. If you listened to the Etsy-sodes series, then you know that Etsy has been prioritizing profits over people for years now. And specifically, profits over its sellers…who are the entire reason that Etsy exists. Etsy doesn’t make things to sell. It makes its money by taking a share of the sales made by the sellers on its platforms. There’s so much to unpack there and I recommend you listen to those episodes to get the full picture. Some of the issues include ever escalating fees, increased competition from businesses selling mass produced products on the platform (which keep selling prices low and make it harder to find actual makers), lots of dumb polices around ratings and advertising, and to top it all off, really terrible support for sellers. I’m going to share a great article from The Verge that breaks it all down–thanks to Selina Sanders for sending it my way–but there are two important things to call out here. One, Etsy sellers are calling for a boycott of Etsy on April 11. Sellers will put their shops in vacation mode–so no one can buy anything–and buyers are encouraged to skip purchasing anything from Etsy that day. Why April 11? That’s when a new round of fee increases go into effect, raising the cost of selling on the platform by 30%. Second, Kristi has started a petition to stop the fee increases that all of you should sign ASAP. I’ll share the link in the show notes.

I don’t know Kristi at all but I’m so proud of what she’s doing. And I’m excited to see Etsy sellers take collective action to demand accountability from Etsy. As Julie said, the actions of one impact us all. So if one person can successfully pull off an Etsy boycott (and create a PR nightmare for Etsy in the process), then it will force the platform to make changes to its way of doing business. This can have a trickle down effect to other platforms where small businesses operate, like Depop, Poshmark, Ebay, etc…and this could have major impacts on small businesses everywhere….which in the long term could shift wealth away from big corporations and allow smaller businesses to flourish. Yes, that can really happen! So go read the article, sign the petition, and share this with all of your friends and family! Let’s change the world together! It all starts with one person. And speaking of a person making some major changes, let’s jump into my conversation with Julie…

Amanda
Julie, why don't you introduce yourself to everyone?

Julie
Yeah, hello. So my name is Julie Allen. I am from the Portland Oregon area and I own a women's clothing boutique called Mary Rose boutique. And I founded the Mary Rose Foundation. And also we have our own line of clothing called Hope Continues that is focused on size, inclusion and ethically made pieces.

Amanda
So when you reached out to me, you know, lots of businesses reach out to me all the time. But what really set you apart is you said, like, hey, we used to be a fast fashion boutique, and we're not anymore. So I mean, that's a that's a big change. I mean, like, you know, something we talk about on the podcast all the time is, you know, for like, say Zara, or Urban Outfitters or any of those big fast fashion companies to suddenly change their ways is kind of impossible, right? Because it's like, baked into their model. How did you do it?

Julie
It was really, really hard.
Very, very challenging. So we've been in business, we're going into our fifth year in business. So we've been, you know, we were pretty well established as a fast fashion boutique. And we had the brick and mortar sin. Three, four years ago, we've had the actual storefront, but prior to that, we were online only. And then when COVID really hit in early 2020. We switched all all the way to online, right. And with that came a massive surge in sales. And so we had just dipped our toes into fast fashion at this point, in 2020 km COVID pandemic lock, you know, all the things and we went full force into fast fashion, we ended up having a 5000 square foot warehouse. Oh my gosh, it is it is kind of painful to say really like looking back. But then what happened was, one day I was just walking into our warehouse, he was just casually walking into there prepping for this live sale, right? That was probably over 100 pieces. We did these multiple times a week we did these live sales that, you know, to sell as much as you can as fast as possible, as cheap as possible to as many people as possible, right.

\ And I remember for some reason, I just like, saw what was right in front of me. I saw a 5000 square feet covered in plastic and covered in it was GARBAGE. Literally garbage was everywhere. Like I'm not even kidding. We had a corner in that warehouse that was dedicated to garbage that couldn't fit in the garbage. So yes, yes, it was so bad, because fast fashion. It comes wrapped in plastic, and then it comes on a plastic hanger. And I stopped and for the first time I saw what was right in front of me. And also, what am I doing? What is this? And so then I started to learn more about the fashion industry. And it is embarrassing to say, but I didn't know, I had owned a boutique for at this point three and a half ish years. And I had no idea that child labor was a thing. I had no idea the amount of waste that the fashion industry produces. I didn't know. And once I started to learn and see the reality, that was fast fashion, I said to my business partner, who I also happened to be married, which is a whole nother conversation. I said to you, I said we can't do this anymore, right? Like, we can't do this, we have got to switch like I don't know what the solution is. But I know that I cannot be a part of this. And he looked at me and he said, you're going to lose the entire business. And I was like, I don't care. Like I can't, I can't do it. Like once you really start to see and understand like, like people in our supply chain. First of all, we don't know what's going on. You know, there is zero transparency in the fast fashion world. You know, you like to think we like to think just because something says USA made, or you know, whatever it says it doesn't mean anything. They and so this was early 2021. And so we spent a good year redesigning and rebuilding our business. I mean, it's an entirely new business model. So when you say like Zara and h&m it's built into their model that is absolutely true. We have to make an entirely new business model. And that is a tough switch. That was We lost probably 70% of our customers our revenue. I mean, we were, we were down well over half 2021 Compared to 2020. But it's worth it, it is hands down worth it because I want people to be treated like human beings. Like, that's just, I don't understand. I don't I don't understand. I really don't. And I didn't know, I didn't know prior to early 2021 how bad it was.

Amanda
I mean, honestly, most people who work in the industry don't know that, you know, like, it's not something that you talk about. I mean, I can guarantee that none of the sales reps you were working with at any of the vendors knew either because it's not like they get to go to the factory and see what's going on. I'm sure if they asked any questions, they would lose their job, like there would be repercussions for sure.

Julie
Definitely, definitely. So when we started to switch the business, from fast fashion to slow fashion, first of all, we had no idea what we were doing. Like, I don't want to do FIS, and I want to do this, but I have no idea how to get from point A to B right. And we had no idea what we were doing. So it took us about a year. And now we're in the storefront where at over 85% Sustainable wow, like know, our supply chain on 85% of our things. We're getting there. But it has taken I mean, it's taken a year to do to do all that

Amanda
. I think for a year that is miraculous, because there are so many other boutiques out there retailers, etc. Who are like, it's just too hard. So I won't do it. Right. I mean, I think a lot of us get in our heads like that, well, how can I ever have the impact of say, Amazon? You know, so why bother trying to have an impact at all?

Julie
I understand that I really do. And I think the biggest thing that stuck out to me, has been we've been in a pandemic for however many years at this point, right?

Amanda
I know, it's forever.

Julie
I mean that this doesn't even it's just a long time, right. And I feel like one of the things that the pandemic really brought to light amongst so many things, but it was the actions of one impact us all. And each individual human has the power to make a change in their own, you know, their own little corner of the world. And then it expands. But my actions absolutely do impact other people. And we really saw this so clearly with the pandemic, like it was a I mean, it's been fascinating, really. So that's the kind of mindset i i took into switching the boutique. Because yeah, we are a small business. I'm not I'm not a corporation. I mean, at one point, I think we had seven full time employees. But now we're down to one, excuse me to two full time employees. And it will be it's so easy to say what I do doesn't really matter. But it really does. And we've seen that so clearly over the course of this pandemic, that my actions or individual actions really do impact one another.

Amanda
Absolutely. I mean, like, Yeah, listen, the past few years have been really horrible. Yeah, but I think so many of us have learned so much and and how much we do matter. And our decisions do matter. I mean, just even thinking about you and your warehouse with a corner dedicated to trash.

Julie
It's cringe. It's cringe worthy right now, like we have it like, it was more than a corner. Okay, like it was expanded into the warehouse. Like it was bad. It was bad.

Amanda
Yeah. I mean, like, and that's like, if you could think of all you know, I talk on the show all the time about how small business is so powerful, and has such a major impact on the planet if we support it, because individuals can make changes like this what like, once again, you're like, oh, it took us a year. And I'm like, wow, that was so fast. You know, like, like, that's the difference between a small business and a big retailer. Like if, if tomorrow, h&m was like, No, we're really going to do things the right way. I mean, it would take them like 10 years, to dismantle whatever they've built. And the impacts would also be negative, not just positive. I mean, it would be it's not something they're going to do, right because they just, they just can't and I think it's just like one more reason to shop small because you see this impact playing out in front of you. And it's it's incredible. So you were you were telling me you know, before all this, you would go to magic, you would source stuff online. And you know, for everybody who's listening magic is this huge. I mean, I'm gonna say it it's a fast fashion trade show.

Julie
Yes, it is.

Amanda
I was just there a few weeks ago, and it was it was really small this time. And so what was left were kind of The worst, most fast fashion clothes, like all the biggest, fast fashion brands like you, you as the average customer doesn't know these brands, right? They're not like household names, but you see them in all kinds of boutiques all over the place. It from what I can gather, a lot of them have disappeared during the pandemic. And so we're left with the sort of biggest fast fashion providers if you're, if you will.

Julie
Yeah, it's not good. The trajectory is just is not good. I have a stepdaughter who's almost 11. And we were talking about sustainability. And I love it. I know, I know. And she said to me, because I was talking about polyester. I was like, oh, you know, honey, polyester does not like it stays in a landfill for a very long time. And she said to me, she goes, Well, what's going to happen? We when we run out of room? I say I don't? I don't? I don't know, honey. I don't know.

Amanda
I don't know, either. I have anxiety about that..

Julie
And like, I don't understand how people don't understand we have a finite amount of resources, you know, like, this is not really even an option to change anymore. Like there has got to be a better way. And I really do believe small businesses and small brands that are, you know, the end consumers like educating consumers, because I was in the industry. And I had no idea, no idea. And I really, I do have hope for the fashion industry as a whole. But we have a long ways to go long, long ways, long ways.

Amanda
I mean, the polyester is a really good point to bring up because most people think of polyester as being like a 70s thing, right? But actually, we're living in the golden era of polyester with like, 60 to 70% of new clothing being polyester. It's just like sneakier now. Like it's not the thick. I mean, you know, you'll see a 70s polyester, you're like, Yeah, that's probably you can see it from like, across the room, right. But now, now, it's like silky, or shear or drapy. And all these things. And, you know, I remember before we were talking so frequently about climate change, you know, 20 years ago, it was like, we're gonna run out of fossil fuels, right? Like, that was the conversation all the time. And that was sort of what started the development of electric cars, and, you know, alternative energy sources. And, interestingly enough, this is before we started making nine gazillion polyester clothes, which are made out of fossil fuels. And I feel like we don't, we don't talk about that enough. That, you know, you we, I mean, we have to change our habits around driving and flying and everything anyway. But regardless, we're pouring tons of oil into clothing, and other like semi disposable things that could have at least in the future been used for transportation. You know, it's gross, it's really gross. I was just in Vegas again last week for another trade show. And what am halls me most when I'm there, I mean, it's a lot of things is all of the plastic that I see everywhere I go, like people walking down the strip with these huge disposable plastic cups full of like, so called daiquiris, you know, and like, those are gonna go in the trash, right? Like, there's just so much everything is plastic there, I went to a restaurant, where all the utensils were plastic, the packaging was in plastic. And it's just, like, that's just one place. But, you know, I think we look at a plastic cup. And we're like, oh, that's so wasteful, but we don't look at the polyester clothes. And think about those.

Julie
Yeah, completely agree, completely agree there. I know it sounds very doom and gloom a lot of the time, right. And I totally get that. And I really do believe that more people are starting to realize these things. I mean, I'm a, I'm a great example. I had no idea. No idea what I was doing contributing to the landfills and this overconsumption mindset, right of just, you need to buy this in order to fill some void. And I didn't know and I just have to believe that there are a lot more people out there that are going to realize, especially you know, when we get through this pandemic, like that, I what I do does matter. It does have an impact, and I know it can feel overwhelming, and I know it can feel stressful, but it's like I have to go back to that. That hope that like I really do have for humanity, which I feel silly saying that but…

Amanda
I think you're a great example like you're not an environmentalist. You know what I mean? You're not like a scientist. You know, you're not like an activist who's out there like chaining yourself to trees, right? You're a person who you're a small business owner, you love clothes. You love what you do. And you have all these other passions around size inclusivity, and so many other things that we're going to talk about, and yet you were like, Hey, I'm realizing this, and it can make a big change. And I think that's what's really important is I think sometimes we, we think, well, we can't be a person who makes impact. We can't, nothing we do matters, right? We like don't have the reach, or the influence or any of that. And that's just not true. I mean, think about the clothing alone that you were buying and selling that came wrapped in the plastic with the plastic hangers. Even just thinking about not having that anymore. It all adds up.

Julie
It does. Yeah, we did really well, in 2020. Like the pandemic, the first part of that pandemic, we ended up doubling our revenue from 2019 to 2020. More than doubling Wow. And, I mean, we we walked away, like I can't do this, like, I just if something doesn't sit right. It's like, yeah, you just just couldn't do it anymore.

Amanda
That's so inspiring.

Julie
Thank you. I really appreciate that. Because it's been, it's been hard. And like, of course, small business is always hard. Retail is always hard during a pandemic. Oh my gosh, oh, my gosh, I get two little kids like it's Yeah. Hearing Like, you know, I've had a couple of clients come up to me, or just DM me over Instagram and just say, like, I didn't know before, and now I do. And thank you. And it's like, Okay, start there, start there. And just slowly build, like, I just, I really got to hold on to that hope, you know, if we really will be okay.

Amanda
I love that. So let's talk about it. Because it was hard, right? So what did you do with all the stuff you already had?

Julie
Yeah, we sold it pretty much at or below cost. And we did. So we had a big warehouse, like just got rid of stuff, got rid of a lot of stuff. We donated a lot as well. We have several local charities, we work with an LGBTQ youth charity that's close by us, we have a couple of houseless houseless charities, and so we donated a lot and we sold a lot at or below cost. And then we sublet our warehouse, and we just really focused on finding vendors that matched all of our boxes. And let me tell you, that was the big thing.

Amanda
I mean, I'm sure like when you were preparing for this, I was just like, once again, I can't believe you were able to pull this off in a year because it's so hard, right? We're gonna talk about that but even just getting clear, transparent information, like you don't get it until you try to do it. It's feels impossible.

Julie
Oh, and then the answers that some some reps give you you're like, What on earth is that? E\\\

Amanda
They don't know either. They don't!

Julie
It's interesting, because you know, when we first started this journey of like, trying to get transparency from our vendors. I didn't really understand how to read the the emails that they were sending me trying to describe their supply chain. I was like, oh, that sounds good enough, right. Like maybe that's okay. And then you get farther in it you're like oh, no, they were just talking out of there. You know what? No brainer. And yeah, it was it was not easy because yeah, we lost we lost a lot of customers a lot of vendors I believe we had, oh my gosh, I need the actual numbers but we probably had 100 vendors that we were buying from buying from and now we're at about 30 and we definitely diversified our offerings like we have a lot of home goods now like eco home goods. Just because like it just first of all doesn't exist in the clothing industry like it is it is remarkable how challenging it is to find a transparent supply chain but it is almost impossible and then size inclusion. Oh oh my gosh, that is that is where I just get like super passionate because 70% of people identifying as women in the states are a size 14 or above the vast majority of quote sustainable slash ethical brands carry up to a size large vast don't get me started. Oh my gosh, maybe an XL. Like if they have an XL they quote carry plus size, I think no, you don't.

Amanda
And the XL is probably like really an XS.

Julie
Absolutely. Absolutely. And so size inclusion has been built into our brand from the get go. I mentioned at the beginning, we have a nonprofit, we have a foundation, that it helps fund treatment for people struggling with eating disorders. So the anti diet culture and accepting, accepting all bodies and making this safe space for people that have lived or that live in marginalized bodies is incredibly important to me. Like that is what that is the heart of our business is that nonprofit in eating disorders in marginalized communities, like that's what we care about. And then is switching everything like oh, my gosh, I can't find it. I can't find it. And it just does not exist. I'm telling you, I think we found maybe three clothing vendors, three, and one is local to Portland. And I'm like, thank God, because somebody out there else is doing it because it is virtually impossible to find. And I don't want to hear anyone's excuse anymore for it. But I'm so over hearing excuses about how it costs too much to make above a size large. It doesn't. It really doesn't.

Amanda
Oh, yeah, I'm so tired of hearing it too. Especially like, if you look at some of the larger like, so called Sustainable brands. I went on a weird, creepy scavenger hunt a few, I guess, maybe more like detective work a few weeks ago, where I was like, I just want to know, like, what's the size of these businesses? Where's their money coming from? And basically, any larger one that you're seeing on Instagram that's taken out tons of ads, they have investment money, right? They're not, I'm not talking about the small makers who are literally at home sewing everything themselves, or with like one other person. We're talking like, they are placing orders with factories, they have a team working for them. And they're taking a decent amount of investment money, budget for it, in your p&l for a fit tech and a fit model.

Julie
No, it is not that much more to expand out because like I mentioned, we started our own clothing line, and it goes up to 5x. It is not that much more expensive. I'm like I can actually pull the freakin numbers and tell you it is not like that is just some BS excuse I don't. It's rooted in fatphobia and diet, culture and all of that. And I'm just I'm so tired of hearing that excuse that it doesn't sell. We didn't try you're not making a welcoming environment for people that live in marginalized bodies, like by only in advertising her any kind of media, if they only have one body represented. It's like no, of course not.

Amanda
I mean, I It's, I feel like every time I like someone sends me a screenshot of reaching out to one of these brands to be like, Why don't you offer more than a large? Why don't you offer more than extra large, it's like, oh, it's like we're a small business. And I'm like, You know what, you guys fuck you. Because it does, there are people who so one garment at a time who are making all sizes and figuring it out, you can do it too, you have the resources, you're literally leaving money on the table. That's how deep seated your anti fat biases are.

Julie
That is fatphobia. It is the diet culture equates moral superiority to living in a smaller body. And unfortunately, there's also this sense of moral superiority in many sustainable and ethical fashion brands. So of course, like, why would somebody that lives in a larger body care about all these things, right? If they're not moral, right, and it just doesn't I can't I can't

Amanda
I you know, when the first time you told me that I was like, Wow, you're so right, because I see if you were like thinking about these brands and their current consumer base, there are all of these like, like the Venn diagram of it, they're all these intersections between sustainable fashion and well, so called Wellness culture, and like, boom, and diet culture, and it's all like, intersects far more than it doesn't. And so, of course, they're leaving out all these people, because it's not about sustainability. It's not about being ethical. Because if it were, they'd be dressing more people, if these brands were on a true mission, to change the industry and make it more equitable, more ethical, truly not so bad for the planet, they would say, hey, we want to dress as many people as possible. So more and more people can take part of this and can be the norm, right? We're gonna make all these sizes. They're not to me. No, it says they don't care. They don't care about a better world.

Julie
No, they don't. It's, that's not their motive. And so then it makes, I mean, there's many questions to be asking, but that is like, Well, then why, why are you doing this because it's trending. Not a good answer. Like and that's what that says to me. That's what it says. It says a sustainable brand is not. They don't actually care. And I just I don't want to be a part.

Amanda
It seems so fake to me. That's how I feel, too. I get riled up all the time with these brands. So yeah, okay, so you make all these changes. It's really, really hard. Right? How did it go?

Julie
Good question. Still going great. It was, it was the hardest thing we ever had to do in our, I'm sure. Tell us about it. Yeah, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, like we lost. First of all, we lost a lot of money. Second of all, we lost a lot of customers, because people want that $5 t shirt. And as many times as I say, a $5 T shirt does not exist. Just because you and I didn't pay for it. Somebody paid for him, whether that was not getting paid, whether that was being treated horribly, like somewhere along the supply chain, somebody paid for that T shirt. But a lot of humans were not ready to hear that. And I, they they went away. And that's okay, that's perfectly okay. And during this time, also, we also began being well, we really dialed in our mission, because it was a bit of an identity crisis, if you want to call it because I knew that we couldn't do that anymore. But I didn't know what we could do. And being like, it was a very hard stop being not being able to find size inclusive pieces, right? Like it was a hard, hard stop. And so we had to sit down, I sat down with my team, I have the best general manager ever. Like she came. She came from a corporate background, but this woman's hearts in the nonprofit world. And she's just like dynamite human being. And she and I had multiple conversations like, Okay, this is where we want to go, this is where we are. Who are we? And what do we stand for, you know, if we're going to make a change in our business, we're going to just make a change. And we're going to sit down and we're going to figure out what exactly we care about and what we stand for. And we're not going to be shy about who we are anymore as human beings, and as a company. So we sat down and we came up with three pillars of our of our mission statement, sustainability, inclusion, and social justice. All three of those mission pillars were what we based every decision on after that. So once we got incredibly clear on who we were and what we wanted to accomplish with our business, like it's always been, like, my business has always been more than a business with me like we opened the nonprofit maybe six months or so after, after having the boutique and a portion of all sales at the boutique donated to the nonprofit like it's, it's what keeps me going on hard days, right? But really dialing in who we are and what we stand for and the messages that we want to portray. Like, we want to be a safe place for people that live in marginalized bodies, right and automatically that turns off a lot of and that's okay. I had to really come to terms with that like we got a lot of not very nice emails. A lot of a lot of it. We our storefront is in a very conservative downtown and right outside of Portland, Oregon in downtown Oregon City. You want to know what we did Amanda did you do? Oh my gosh, we put rainbows up everywhere. Rainbows everywhere so our door is like covered in rainbows and all the things just and apparently that ticks people off like I didn't know

Amanda
I mean you never know you know like there's all this idea of like progressives and liberals being these like delicate snowflakes and I am like I would beg to differ because we don't get offended by things like rainbows

Julie
oh my gosh, you I'm like what I said we also have a sign that says like we welcome all people in the you know all the things and like do not enter if you have symptoms of COVID, transphobia, fatphobia, homophobia, any of those kinds of things. And I don't know how that pisses people off. I'm like just don't come in like it was a very hard it was a hard stop though for everybody and all that to say once we dialed in who we were and what we stood for, it became a lot easier for us to make decisions. So that was really key for us in making businesses business decisions. Whoo. That's hard to say business decisions that align with our value We had to stick by it. Like, there were many times when we were like, well, this company does this, but it only goes up to this size. But oh, do we do it? And it's like, Nope, can't do it. So we did was it was tough, it was really tough, there's not really a better way to say that other than it was really hard, but getting clear on who we are. And what we stand for was critical for us. Because people have opinions about everything, right. And when you start to stand up and say, like, this is not okay, this is wrong. And these are the reasons that we believe this, you're gonna get a lot of pushback. And going back to, this is what we believe, as individuals, as a company, and we are going to stand on this mission statement. So it became that filter for us, that was made it just much more clear for us.

Amanda
I mean, I love that, you know, like, I think even as just an individual, if you don't own a business, you're just trying to live, live your life in the most ethical, responsible way. I think putting those filters on for yourself, actually makes life a lot easier.

Julie
We live in a capitalistic society, we knew. And the quickest way I've found to impact change, is knowing where I'm spending my money. And if a business says I support LGBTQ I support, you know, people in like, all marginalized wise, like, Yes, I will spend my money with you. And if I hear otherwise, I'm gonna just fun somewhere else. So it's really been, it's empowering to know that like our dollars, they really do have an impact. Like, when people choose to spend their money with us. It makes a very noticeable difference in our lives, you know, in the lives of my employees in our foundation, and all all the things like it really, I think we can forget that so easily. Like, we really can make change and it's is a one positive that's in our, the way our society set up.

Amanda
It is it really is, you know, like, once again, it's so easy to feel like you have no power, like nothing you do matters. And that's just not true. You know, and I think we all we all feel that way. Sometimes. I'm sure there are times where you're like, This is so hard. What if no one ever shops here again, and nothing gets better. But it did, right. I'm sure listen, I'm I'm sure you have lots of customers who missed your fast fashion. Right? And who were angry about it and probably said unpleasant things. The people who said bad things about the rainbows, they can whatever, they can go kick rocks, And I'm sure, yes, you lost some customers, right? But I bet you've also gained some new customers and met some really amazing new people.

Julie
Yeah, that's, that is very true. We lost a lot of customers but the ones that we gained they care and they share the same values and the same mission and the same desire to do good. You know, we don't always know how to do good. We don't always know how to impact change, we don't always know the next right thing to do, right. But the clients that we have now want that they want that as well and it's very It feels like home now to me when I go into our storefront and our Yeah, it's just it's a comforting feeling knowing that like we've worked so hard to create this space that people can come in like if you're a size 4x Cool come in like just come in and something else I love about our stores that we don't have a quote plus size section and the same it's the same cost for all the sizes. It always really bothered me like how oh the stores would have this like little tiny section shoved in the back corner not well lit it felt like a corner of shame. Yeah. And now we're not we don't do that we don't we're not doing.

Amanda
Yeah everyone should get to shop together. I hate that. I hate that so much and it's funny that you still see this happening at most stores right? Everywhere. If if fast fashion retailers who are like sort of size inclusive, who offer plus sizes like they're They're in a separate part of the store. They are more expensive, even though the same things and it just, I'm going to tell you, it doesn't have to be that way. Even the more expensive thing, you just make it work. You get out a calculator and you futz around with it until everything can be the same price.

Julie
I know. I know. And then I'm like, that goes back to diet culture now, doesn't it? Because we live in this society that is obsessed with controlling, particularly when Oh, yeah, it's everybody's body, of course. But women just tend to get the women just get a little bit harder on. But yeah, it's diet culture, and this obsession with controlling women's bodies, and I don't like it.

Amanda
I don't like it either. It makes me really, really angry.

Amanda
One of the things you've done, you mentioned this is you've started your own line. I guess mostly, but not completely, because it's been really, really hard to find what you want out there. So did you like assume when you like when you were a little girl, were you like, I'm gonna be a fashion designer when I grow up.

Julie
I came from health care. Actually, I was a physical therapist prior to having the boutique. So I was I worked in skilled nursing facilities. So like post acute care, I helped rehab people after strokes and surgeries, and all the things but after I had my first son, which he just turned five, which I can't even

Amanda
a good age. I love five.

Julie
I know he's going into kindergarten, I can't even I can't even but I remember going clothes shopping. I was about six weeks or so postpartum from him. And I struggled a long time with an eating disorder growing up about 15 years of my life was spent in in and out of treatment for anorexia, bulimia. So I was I had a long time with an eating disorder. And I remember going clothes shopping six weeks, however, I had my dear sweet son. First of all, PSA, don't tell you that. Yeah, don't do that. It's really bad to see. Yeah. But I went into the fitting room. And of course, nothing fits me. Because I'm six weeks postpartum, right? And nothing is supposed to fit you like it's fine. It's fine. But I remember that feeling of feeling so bad about myself and feeling like there's something wrong with me. I failed. I didn't do this good enough. Like, there's something wrong with my body. I am not good enough. And it was all the messages that are subtly around you, when your clothes shopping. It's from the size of the mannequins that are available are shown. It's just all these different messages. Say, if the clothes don't fit you, there's something wrong with your body. And my husband was with me at the time. And I turned to him and I said, Okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to open up a store that's going to be different. I'm going to do it and he was like, okay, honey, that's a really great part. I'm crying. I'm hormonal. And my little my little guy ever was just screaming because, you know, he says they do. Yeah, yeah. Not even a year later, we ended up opening the store. And so that that inclusion piece, I mentioned it as being one of our pillars in our current mission statement. But that has always been central to our business. And it's evolved a lot. The business has evolved so much over the course of these five years. But that that inclusion piece, that desire to help people and all bodies, feel safe and feel. It's okay to come in and shop no matter what size body you live in. You deserve to feel good in your body because I spent so many years hating my body. And I would argue most people, most women, people identifying as women don't often love their bodies, you know, we're most of us are trying to change them in some way, shape, or form. And I don't like that either. So we just wanted to make a place that was going to be different than we did.

Amanda
I mean, that's, that's incredible. I think it's interesting. I've had so many guests on the show who had no vision when they were younger that they were going to get into this field that they were going to open a store start their own line, and they always end up coming at it in this very personal way. Like that's what the journey is something in their personal life, their relationship with clothing, their bodies. It drives for them to do it. And we need more of that. Because for people who come out of, you know, like a fashion education, a lot of them have already had some really bad ideas drilled into their brain, whether they know it or not, not that people who go to fashion school are bad people, but you know, they're there. They come into this world, it's like, this is how it is. That's just how it is. And so, there is something special about saying like, I'm an outsider, I came at it because my personal experiences, you haven't already been told that it can only be this way. So you don't know that, that that's what the world's gonna try to tell you. Oh, you know?

Julie
Yeah, I yeah, I really. I've kind of joked a little bit before about like, oh, my gosh, I came from healthcare. Like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Right. But it really, it was really a good thing, actually. Because, yeah, like you mentioned, I didn't have all these preconceived ideas of how it was supposed to be until I got into the industry and then realized, oh, my gosh, we're a fast fashion boutique. This is not okay. But yeah, it, it was not a bad thing. Definitely not a bad thing to have no idea what I was doing. And you learn, you feel like that's what yeah, you read books. Listen to amazing podcasts like this one. And that's what you do. So you figure it out?

Amanda
Yeah. And you just make it happen. You know, I mean, you definitely pulled off what like, I'm just gonna say this, again, what so many people would think of is impossible. And you're, you're doing it and you didn't have to close your business and declare bankruptcy. And, you know, like, like, it's working, even though it's scary. And it's, it's hard. It can work. So tell us a little bit about your line.

Julie
Yeah, I love it. So called hope continues and hope. Hope has been another one of those central themes in our entire business. And it seems so fitting like, just at the point we are in this world, and it's like, no hope. Continues. Hold continues. And so it is a size inclusive, we make extra small through 5x, ethical, sustainable, all those things. Oh my gosh, it's made of hemp. It's made of, wow. No, I love him so much. And it's a seven piece like capsule collection. And I'm calling it for the sexy minimalist, because that's the kind of style I love. And we actually named each piece and each piece was inspired after a Greek goddess. So it has this like, blending of power and sensuality to it. It's a very, it's a very pretty line, in my humble opinion, who designed it. So I'm really, really excited about it. We are the pieces are set to arrive in May to ask to spring summer collection and yep, seven pieces, but it's actually up for pre order. pre order right now. Because it's expensive to do things ethically,

Amanda
because it is it shouldn't be. But it is, right?

Julie
It's the reality of our society and that it's okay. Like, it's, it's okay, we understood that at the beginning. And it was worth it. To me, it was like, Okay, well, did everyone get paid? Okay, check. And it's worth it.

Amanda
I mean, I think so too, you know, one of the the only thing that is less expensive now than it was in the 1990s is clothing. And everything is a lot more expensive. Yeah. So we just don't even understand how much clothing should be. And unfortunately, you know, we've got it, we've got to change that mindset, that we shouldn't need to be able to go into a store and spend $100, and leave with a whole bag of clothes, we don't need a whole bag of clothes for $100 Unless they're secondhand fine, but like, we we need to change our thinking about that, you know, people in the 80s 90s Before that, they didn't go shopping with the expectation of coming home with four outfits for a very small amount of money. Like we just have to delete that from our brains that that's even a possibility. Right. And I also I mean, my personal feeling is like your relationship with what you buy with your wardrobe. Whether you realize it or not, is colored by the origins of those clothes. Like, if they are cheap, if you know that exploitation was involved. If you know that they're like not built to last or they don't, you can tell they don't fit you very well or make you feel that confident. You're not going to wear them, you're not going to feel special wearing them. And so I'd rather have less that cost me more that I know has all this like good origin story behind it. Because I'm going to, I'm going to wear that stuff all the time and feel feel my best.

Julie
That's an entire mindset shift for our entire culture. Because we have this idea that we always need more and It goes along with diet culture, and this idea that we're not enough as we are. And we always need to be looking for that next thing to make us happy in speaking in the diet, culture world, it's this next diet, this next exercise program this next whatever, whatever it is, that's going to, quote, finally fix you. It's that same mentality with fast fashion. It you are not enough as you are. So here, here's all these things that are going to make you feel good about yourself. And it's feeding a monster. I mean, it's really like this giant monster that is fast fashion, and the diet culture and it all is related. It's It's fascinating, the more I'm like digging into the, the intersection of diet, culture, and sustainability and all those things, it's it's quite fascinating, really, and they're so so connected.

Amanda
Absolutely I do. I mean, I just anecdotally find that when I'm feeling the most unhappy with my life, whether I like hate my job, or I'm in a bad relationship, or I'm not in relationship and want to be in a relationship, or just, there's something about my life where I feel like I don't quite have control over it. There are two things that I always do. One is I spent a lot of time hating my body and figuring out how to change it, and to buy a lot of stuff that I don't even like, it's all contentious.

Julie
Yep. And it's, you know, to it's like you, you know, these things, and it's still it's so ingrained in us. And like I mentioned earlier, I struggled with an eating disorder for a very long time. And still to this day, when I get stressed out my go to is, I feel fat. I've learned 20 years in therapy, that fat is not a feeling right? But it's like what did what's under all that. But that is it's such an automatic go to like, I hate my body. Something is wrong with me, I need to fix it. I need to control this aspect of my life. And it's interesting.

Amanda
Well, I mean, it goes back to this idea that you pointed out earlier of like, we look at being larger as a failure as a human.

Julie
Yep, absolutely. And, yeah, it doesn't our entire society is based on that. Like the the medical, medical field, everybody has these Wait, biases in these fat phobic things? Um, there's a big, there's gonna have to be a lot of system overhaul in the next few years, I think.

Amanda
Yes, yeah. Yeah, it all starts with us. Just being like, Hey, we're not gonna put up with it anymore. It's stupid and supporting one another. Yeah, as we go through this, because for so many of us, it is so deeply entangled in like, it's like, one time my cat got a whole spool of thread, and unwound the whole thing around the house. And it was like a, it was like, creepy trapped, like, there was just thread everywhere. And you could never get it all it was like it would turn up months later, here's some more wrapped around a quarter around something. That's how I feel like diet, culture, and fat phobia. And all these things are in our brains. And I think the best thing that we can do is help one another, untangle it, and like, Be the person who spots the hidden threads and your friends minds, you know, be like, Hey, I see what's happening here. Let's talk about it. Because I do think it's like this vicious cycle of feeling bad. And then buying stuff and feeling even still feeling bad, possibly feeling worse than going back and feeling bad again. And it just leads to so much unhappiness. And like, I'll be the first to say I've spent so much of my life hating my body. And every once in a while I think why, like, this is all I have. This is it. This is me. My body is me. Do I hate me when you know?

Julie
Yep, yep. And women in particular have been quite subject to this over the course of however long Right? Like I can remember my grandma talking about, you know, going on diets and hating her body and stuff. And my grandma's passed away. Like this is a generational thing. Like a lot of people have been through

Amanda
this. Yeah. When I'm thrifting I see so many really, really bad, bad idea, like diet cookbooks from like the 50s and 60s and 70s where everybody was like, have your cottage cheese and a piece of jello and like some cabbage and I just thought, Gosh, this has been going on like I remember hearing the stuff coming from my grandmother's mouth. My mom's mouth like It's like we were never going to end this if we don't all take a stand and support one another and, you know, work on ourselves to break the habit. That's it's like it is generational at this point.

Julie
Yeah. And women. I mean, it's just gonna speak for women right now because that's what I identify as and that's where I am but Women have been kept small. And we've been kept quiet. And we've been kept contained. And that is the ultimate goal. I feel like of this diet culture, like if I am so focused on my body and the size of my thighs, like what else am I? What am I? Not?

Amanda
Exactly, you

Julie
know, I'm, I'm not focused on changing, changing the world, like, I know that sounds big and aspirational. But that's how I feel like if I'm so distracted by focusing on what I ate in the size of my stomach, or my thighs, or the fact that this whatever is going through my head at this point, like that's taking up a considerable amount of brain space. And like, I just wonder, like, what would happen if more women realized their power and their potential in this? Like, I am obsessed with the feminine energy? I'm sorry, I'm just gonna say it like this, this powerful but sensual, like gentle, like dance, right, like with femininity, and I just feel like it can change the world. But we can't get there. We can't get there. Because we're focused on what our thoughts look like

Amanda
how old we look, or are we desirable, whatever that even means. Right? I mean, it. Yeah, I agree. I mean, this is it's a it's a distraction.

Julie
Yeah, it's absolutely a distraction. That is the perfect way to put that it absolutely is. And it's like, what would happen if what would happen if all that brain space was cleared up? I don't know.

Amanda
I think it's a good thing. Man, I would love to just have that, like snipped out of my brain so that I can focus on other things. Because like, no matter how passionate you are about other things, or how much time you spend, you know, working on stuff that's important to you learning new things, all of that it's still there. It's still there. Like when you wake up in the morning, every day, and I I do hate it. I someone said to me, like a year or two ago, like, don't you think all of this is an intentional distraction? And I was like, wow, I hadn't thought of it like that until now. And now I can't stop seeing it that way. And you know what, actually, when you start to see it that way? It's sort of like step one to starting to deal with it.

Julie
Absolutely. Yeah. It's the first step is you're acknowledging, you're acknowledging it, and you see it, like, even in the way we changed our whole business, right? Like, the first step for me was, oh, my gosh, what am I doing? You know, like I had, I didn't see the problem prior. And I couldn't, I couldn't How can you change things if you don't see the problem? And I think it's exciting.

Amanda
I think it's really I love it. I love it. I'm so excited for you. And once again, like you did, what so many companies are afraid to do it is possible. Is it scary? I mean, I'm proud of you. This is a risk. I know your husband was like oh my god,

Julie
oh my god. Like that. I'm the I'm much more of a dreamer and the idea person and he's the analytical type, which I know you need. He thought he's gonna have a heart attack. Like he's like, you're you're not tell us like, well, you've said this before. And it's worked out? Well. So here, here we go.

Amanda
Yeah, I think it I think it's great. I'm so happy for you. So the last thing I just wanted to talk about, because we've been talking about eating disorders, and diet culture, and really how this, this is what led to you starting your own business, which is, you know, not what you expect to hear, you know, most of the entrepreneurial stories that exist on the landscape, were like, I'm a genius, visionary. And I went and did it and, or, you know, I am an inventor, or I'm just like, I'm a money guy, or what you write like we, we never hear, I just don't think we very often I'll say this here, a story of an entrepreneur who was really motivated by something personal, and their own commitment to making a better world, like in a real way, not in a fake like, Google kind of way. Tell me a little bit about all the other work you've been doing to battle eating disorders.

Julie
Thank you. So we started the business in early 2018. And very shortly after that, I mean, I I've always loved the business I always have it's always had a piece of my heart, right? But then, like I realized about six months or so after that. I want to do something more like I need to figure out how to make more of an impact in the space that I'm in. And so I had this fun idea. I was like I want to do a really awesome fashion show. Right? This is my this is my brain at this point like July maybe 2018. All right, let's do a really cool fashion show. We are going to Have a silent auction. And the silent auction is going to benefit a charity. Okay, this is my this is how it's going in my head. And I think, Okay, what kind of charity? So what am I passionate about? Oh, I'm very passionate about eating disorder, advocacy and treatment, and all of all those things, treatment saved my life on many, many occasions I was in, I was in and out of treatment, my entire teenage years, like hospitalizations, and all those things, and it saved my life. But it is so expensive. So expensive. So we are talking without insurance, the average cost of a residential stay is $30,000 a month. Key average person needs two to three months treatment. It is completely inaccessible. And even if people have insurance, they often have very high deductibles. And even then you're still running into if it's a child, parents have to work, they can't most of the time just to have their child in this treatment center without going to see them and there's just a lot more pieces to it and a lot more expense pieces to it, then people really realize and I did not, I did not grow up with money. But I was very privileged in the fact that my parents, they took out a second mortgage on their house to pay for my treatment, my mum didn't work, so she could take me to all my appointments and all of these things. So automatically, I know that I came from a very privileged place, and that was still so hard, financially on my family. And so like I mentioned, they had to take out the second mortgage on their house to pay for my treatment. And back then this was probably 15 years ago, at this point. I had this thought I was like some day I'm gonna pay my parents back. Some day, like when treatment finally became my choice when recovering from my eating disorder was really the only option I had I if I live or die, right? That's kind of Yeah, to interrupt. Yeah, highest mortality rate of all mental illness up to 20% Die, about half of those deaths are from suicide. It is not good. It is it is a very, it's the deadliest mental illness. But anyways, long story short, I wanted to pay my parents back. And I had no idea what that was going to look like a table that thought, you know, got married, had kids did all the things. But they don't want to have this fashion show. And I want to find a charity to work with. And so I kept looking for charities, I was like, Okay, there's got to be an eating disorder charity that like funds people's treatment, because that's what my parents needed. That's what I needed. I needed actual funds, right education, so important. But I need money, right? Like my parents needed money to pay for it. And I could not find it couldn't. There's a couple, there's a couple of eating disorder charities that do really, really good work, really good work project team was one of them. And I reached out to them, they got back to me, but not like till a month later. And so I had already already made the decision at that point to open my own nonprofit, which again, this is another conversation with my husband, what we're doing now, Julio, and I'm like, Well, we are going to open up our own nonprofit, we are going to fund people's treatment for eating disorders. And this is what we're doing. He's like, okay, great. But we did, we did that. And so August 2018, September 2018, or so we applied for 501 C three, and it took probably about a year ish or so to actually get that, that IRS tax exempt status for that. But that, that nonprofit has always been like, what I go back to on really hard business days, like, I really believe you have to have a greater mission because this world will eat you alive. Like business world. It's, it's, it's tough. And there's so many days when you're like, I can't do this, I can't do this. But when you have that, that heart, I don't want to say heart centered, but you know what I mean? Like when you have that thing that you go back to so on hard business days, I know that we are making an impact on people's lives. And I've been really hard on myself about 2020 the pandemic and the warehouse and the all the fast fashion. But you want to know what makes it kind of okay, in my head. We were able to donate we did three scholarships that year during the Panda, the the big get treatment. And so I fall back on that I was like, okay, you know, we we were doing these things wrong, and I didn't know now I know I'm going to do better. But we we funded three people's treatment to eating disorders for eating disorders during 2020 and that that really really helps. And so that was 2020 2021, we kind of switched gears a little bit to develop our education and outreach programs. Because you can fund treatment all day long. But until we're really hitting that prevention side, until we're working with our youth to help them develop these coping mechanisms, and this positive image, body image, and just to know that, like, you know what, you're more than your body, like, we have to hit that side of it, because we were getting to three applications a week for people that needed $60,000. And we're like, we can't do this. Like that is that is just, it's not where we're at. And so over the last year, during all the changes with the business, we we hired a director of education for the nonprofit. And so she really helped us get going on our youth. So we have youth based body positive art groups is what I call them. So we have once a month, we do an in person, like art based group, and we have like, take home kits for kids that don't want to come in, as well. So just working to empower our youth to love and accept themselves as they are. And also, we have support groups for adults, because we let's be real, we have a lot of crap to work. Yeah, true. So it's all kind of connected. And this year, I'm really excited to be able to do scholarships, and our education program. So I'm, I'm we're doing well, we're doing really well there. And it's, it really does keep me keep me going on those hard days, because like you're actually impacting lives and treatment saved my life. If it weren't for my parents like being willing to take out that second mortgage on their house, like, I don't think I'd be here anymore. And yeah, it's just, it's something that's really needed. And yeah, that's a little bit about why

Amanda
I mean, I love that I think that's incredible. And yeah, I mean, you cannot underscore enough how limited access to that treatment is for so many people. You know, like, I think there's always been this misconception that eating disorders are only for a certain type of person, like you have to be, you know, wealthier, like definitely a lot more privileged, financially, socially. And guess what, that's just not true. You know,

Julie
it's not true. anybody, any age, any gender, any race, any, any anything. And there's a lot of problems with this, because eating disorders are not recognized in people that live in marginalized. Yeah, they are. They're not asked the same questions at the doctor's office, like, I will admit, I live in a privileged body. I am a tall, thin white woman, right? Like, I fit the stereotype of what an eating disorder looks like. And I was I was young, I was a preteen teen when it all started and like I fit that description. Would I have been? Would it have been unrecognized? If I lived in a black body? Would it have been unrecognized if I lived in a larger body? You know, there's just so many questions to ask. And it's, it is one thing I want people to hear on that one is eating disorders do not discriminate. They can and they do occur in people in all bodies. And you cannot tell someone has an eating disorder by looking at them. Yeah, like just because someone lives in a larger body does not mean they are not struggling immensely with an eating disorder and vice versa to someone lives in a smaller body. It really does not mean they have an eating disorder. It's really it's not about that.

Amanda
Yeah, no, that's definitely something that we all need to work to dismantle because I feel that so many people don't get treatment and suffer for so long. So long. Yeah.

Julie
And, yeah, they're deadly diseases, like anorexia, highest mortality rate, and like, it's not life. I lived with that for 15 years. And I honestly do not remember a lot of that time of my life. And I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change it now. Because I really do believe it's made me have so much more compassion and empathy and drive now. But that was hard. It if I didn't have the supportive parents, and if I didn't have this dis privilege that I by no means had other than just I had it. Like, I don't know what would have happened.

Amanda
Yeah, I don't I don't know either. Yeah. Well, what? What an impressive guest Do you have any final words of wisdom or just something you want everyone to hear? I mean, I feel like this conversation is going to be so inspiring for so many people.

Julie
Thank you. Yeah, what I really want you all to hear is that you The actions have one really do impact us all. And your individual actions, my individual actions really do add up, and they do make a difference. It is so easy for us to think what I do doesn't matter, it's not really going to impact change. And it really, really does. It really does. And I think once we take that power in realize, like, this is cool, like, I really can make a difference. And you know, what starts in your little corner of the world? It starts with just little tiny corner of the world, and then it just kind of keeps expanding out.

Amanda
it does. No, I love that. I think everybody needs to be reminded that every day some days, I have to wake up and remind myself with that. We all we all need that sometimes.

Julie
Totally. Absolutely.

Amanda
Everyone should write this on their mirror.

Julie
I love doing that. I love reading my mirror, we actually have what's called an affirmation mirror at our shop at the storefront in Oregon City. And so you know how you you come out of the fitting room and you see these stupid mirrors, right? That's what you do. We have things written all over the mirror like you are more than your body, your worth is not tied to your body. Like all these things that we we we want that to be yes, yes. When they come.

Amanda
Gosh, I have so much dread for that moment when you come out and look in the mirror. So I think that's a great idea.

Julie
Yeah, so you write all the nice things.

Amanda
Thank you so much, Julie. This was such a delight.

Julie
Thank you. I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much to Julie for spending some time with me! You can find her on instagram as @maryrose.boutique and @hope.continues, and on the internet at www.maryroseboutique.com
Please go give her a follow! I know I’m proud of the work she’s been doing. Let’s support her on her mission!

I’m going to end the episode here because yikes, I’ve been talking a lot today. But remember, the actions of one impact us all. I’m proud of all of the changes you’re making in your life, the conversations you’ve been having with others, and all of the new stuff you’ve learned. You are making an impact. Keep up the good work! And know that you’ve got a whole community out there supporting you and watching you grow! Is this all cheesy? I don’t care! We all need to hear these things a lot more than we are!

Thanks for listening to another episode of Clotheshorse, mostly recorded about six inches away from Janet. Like all episodes around here, this was written, recorded, edited, and hosted by me, Amanda Lee McCarty.

Thanks as always to Dustin Travis White for our music and audio support.