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What if you could get more of what you want in life? But not through pushing, forcing, or pressure.
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And Kate Northrup, Bestselling Author of Money: A Love Story and Do Less and host of Plenty, is here to help you expand your capacity to receive all of the best.
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Hello, we have such a great episode of Plenty For You Today. Today my guest is Alexandra rso, and she is a bestselling author of Fuck, like a Goddess and Dare to Feel She's a Transformational coach. She's a speaker, she's an artist. Her work has been featured by the New York Times, Harper's Bazaar Playboy. She's been on two seasons of the Netflix show,
too Hot To Handle. She Is a New Mom. And in today's episode, we talk about what's at stake if we don't allow ourselves to feel how to feel safe enough to actually open our hearts and go beyond the fear of vulnerability and, and essentially ego annihilation that it takes to let ourselves be seen feeling by other people how to attract incredible partnership, what our sexuality and our and our spirituality have to do with each other.
She shares, shares some really beautiful, intimate stories of her own relationship with her incredible partner. So behind the scenes information on how she felt during pregnancy, her narrative around pregnancy and motherhood and sexuality is really different than what many of us have experienced. So it's important for that to be out there and I really celebrate it. She has some incredible money,
wisdom to share as well. And it's just a beautiful episode that is gonna help you open your heart and become more expressed as the full spectrum human that you are. So enjoy this episode with Alexander Rocko. Welcome to Plenty. I'm your host, Kate Northrop, and together we are going on a journey to help you have an incredible relationship with money, time,
and energy, and to have abundance on every possible level. Every week we're gonna dive in with experts and insights to help you unlock a life of plenty. Let's go fill our cups. Please note that the opinions and perspectives of guests on The Plenty Podcast are not necessarily reflective of the opinions and perspectives of Kate Northrop or anyone who works within the Kate Northrop brand.
Hey Alexandra, thanks for being here. I'm so happy you're here. Welcome to Plenty. Mm. You are our first guest in our new studio. I love it. Yeah, I'm so happy to be here. I was just feeling into podcasts in general and the fact that you can sit with someone and to be invited to sit with you in person feels so much juicier than being on Zoom.
And it gave me an excuse to put on some makeup postpartum because I've been doing a lot of laying around in bed and not thinking about hair and makeup or anything like that. So, you know, thank you for giving me an excuse to get camera ready. Oh, you look gorgeous. You look gorgeous. If you're listening on a podcast app, it is worth going to check out the video as well.
So thank you. I need that flattery drink. No, This is so good. So you had a baby 10 weeks ago. Yes. Yeah. And you've written, you wrote both your books prior to becoming a mother. However, was there any part of writing Dare to Feel that you were pregnant? Like in the final edits or any part of it?
Or was it totally signed, sealed, and delivered before you got pregnant? This is a great question. I think there were some edits. I think there were some edits. So maybe I brought forth a little bit more of like a compassionate, calm morning sick gaze to some of the writing. But I honestly, I felt really good about it. I had one of my best friends,
Ruby Warrington, and my editor, it Sounds true, Diana, and we all worked together on it. It just felt good. It felt right. Of course, you edit, you cut out some things. But of course the book is full of my stories and I use stories as a way of teaching, which I consider to be a very old and feminine way of imparting wisdom.
Whereas sometimes linear teachings are absolutely needed because we, our modern minds are so conditioned to understand things in a really kind of analytical organized way. However, I, we still yearn for stories. Yeah. If you look at all the incredible television and film that's out there, we're watching it. We want it, we want to take in the stories of other people because there's universal themes in everything.
Yeah. So I come from an artistic background and my spiritual life has been, my life has been my art. And so I was like, I really wanna write a book where I can, instead of having stories and then a lot of linear teachings, I just wanna have a lot of stories and poems and I wanna see if they'll let me do it because it's a little bit more outside of the box in terms of the self help or Yeah.
Wellness space. So those I felt like were important to get out there. Yet they are what has led me to a place of feeling, a sense of healing and calm and security and love and family and relationship. And I think postpartum, I standby all of it. I wouldn't change a thing. That's so great. That is so great. Because you wrote your books relatively close together.
Fuck. Like a Goddess came out in 2020. Yeah. And then Dare to Feel is out now. Yeah. Which I think some people Do a book every I, two years Of it. I, some people do, but I, when I was looking at your copyright dates, I was like that, I don't know, to me, three years apart is pretty,
yeah. Is pretty quick. And I'm curious, how did you know it was time to write your next book? What was the process there? Great. So, because you know, the, like it takes a while. So fuck, like a Goddess. The idea was like in 20 17, 20 18, I wrote it I think 20 17, 20 18, edit 2019. So that was like the chunk that I was,
I was biting into, which was around healing relationship to my body, to my sexuality towards expression. I was looking at these kind of core feminine wound kind of imprints that we hold that are collective. And I was like, here's how I've worked through them. And then as soon as I kind of closed that chapter in a way, I met my partner,
which is interesting and Interesting. So after the writing of this first book, you met your partner? Yes. We actually, like, he was with me for the pub date, which we both accidentally were invited to the same trip in Tulum. And because it was COVID, I didn't get to have a launch party. Right. And I was like,
wait a minute, this guy is meeting me at this intense time. I'm gonna be so type A, I'm gonna be so like in my masculine, and like, what if I ruin it because I'm doing all this self promo. And he's like, man, this woman won't stop talking about her book. And I'm like, so if he can hang with me in this book launch date,
you know, this week or month or whatever of my life, then he'll probably be like, he can, he, he either on board or not. Right. So he was on board, but, but it, it marked sort of like a chapter of my own healing process. I was already wanting to kind of look to other things that I wanted to crack into.
I look at like that we all have these soul curriculums. Yes. That everybody has them. Not everybody has the same kind of wound templates. I was listening to Glennon Doyle's podcast yesterday and she was interviewing Liz Gilbert again. And Liz Gilbert was like, I didn't get the one about being afraid of being seen. Right. Like, I didn't get that wound.
Me neither. Like, It's so interesting. Right. I don't have That one. Yeah, you don't either, right? Or did you, did you get through that? I don't know. We can talk about that. Okay. But I might have like a shred. Okay. I have other things that are way bigger though. Right. So I think we all have these different either conditions,
collective or personal kind of things that we're gonna bite into this life. A lot of people don't like that the word healing 'cause it like, sort of implies that something is broken. I like to look at it more as an assignment, a soul, a soul assignment. And some of them are collective, right? If you're born, born into a particular place,
particular time, you're dealing with a particular set of conditioning or maybe set of generational trauma. Yeah. Et cetera. Anyway, so my second book, I was like, Ooh, now I'm looking into some of the wounds around intimacy and around feeling and feeling the heart and feeling love and feeling loved and feeling where I've cut off. Numbed. Yeah. Repressed.
Yeah. Been in denial. And not just me, but like how this relates to the collective wound. So it kind of happened that I was just a bit maybe of an overachiever on my own healing journey, where I was like, okay, that's feels pretty much good for now. Yeah. What's next? What's, what's next is I wanna be in a healthy relationship.
Yeah. And I'm looking at, at my own tendencies, behaviors and patterns around feeling and how those relate to the collective. How much of your relationship with your partner is woven throughout the book? Like how much, was that a parallel journey that informed this writing? Or how much was it a solo journey? You know, because we were getting to know each other.
I didn't include like, stuff about him and us in there, it was more of like the, the things that I was facing in myself by opening my heart and by wanting to be in a secure, deep, solid bond with another human. And then again, looking at how those relate to our collective wounds of, you know, numbing, avoiding closing off,
all of this kind of thing that I could see in him, I could see in me that I could see even in friendships and with family. Yeah. So there's stories about family, about friendships in there, about making decisions where I cut off from feeling and made bad decisions in life. So there is this o this like river of theme around feeling why it's called dare to feel.
Because I do think that we have these collective wounds around repression, denial, numbing, avoiding, and then the sensitive people that have so much capacity to feel and then have to, in order to live a modern life, have to numb, avoid hide, and how this impacts our loving Mm. How this impacts our making love. Right. Because the modern world is asking us to sort of be a certain way.
I was just saying the other day how I think that the, the places that we are allowed to feel together is like in a movie theater. Yep. We can cry together, we can laugh together, then we leave. And then what it's done, it's like a collective catharsis. The theater used to be that for people. Yes. Television at home.
But in terms, I think it's part of why sports are so good. Sports. Yes. It's man's place to feel like I say that really general, like, don't get mad. There's many women I'm sure who love to go yell at a football game. So some, so some, yeah. Yeah. But like percentage wise it is. Yeah.
It is smaller. Yeah. Yeah. This is just the data. It's, Thank you. Okay. So I would consider you, because your life assignment led you into the world of, of the, the intersection of spirituality and sexuality and then also has led you to the heart and feeling and intimacy. To what degree, either in your own life or in the lives of your clients,
do you see that we can use our sexuality as a way to numb and not feel? Yeah, great question. I mean, it's big nowadays. I, I don't consume porn and I don't have like judgment about that as there's all these different types too. So it could be that there's some really beautiful conscious porn, but taking porn for example, and looking at how perhaps a lot of the youth nowadays are learning about sex and seeing sex and how that is,
feels very cut off from intimacy and relationship. Because usually out of context, obviously it's not real at stage. So I mean, just considering how culturally we deal with sex, even in television shows, there's so much more violence than sex and love. It just says so much about who we are as an over kind of culture that you can see horrific things on television.
Horrific. But you cannot see a nipple what? Still, still, right. Yeah. I mean, and yeah, I don't, I'm not trying to be a, you know, free the nipple advocate or anything like that. I don't know if you remember that, but why not that happen? Why not? I'm just kidding. But it's more of,
of that it reflects our, our over culture and where we are so numbed Yeah. By violence that we can see these shows that are super gory and sort of be like, oh, just a cannibal scene. Like I was pregnant, we were watching The Last of Us. Did you watch that show? No. On HBOI basically, I'm so sensitive.
I can basically like watch Ted Lasso. Okay. My band of ability Yeah. For violence. And it's especially anything disturbing psychologically, I literally have zero capacity. Yeah. So prob probably if, if anybody watched anything, I Probably haven't, you don't watch it, seen It Anyway. I was like, I'm pregnant, I should not watch something that the is this violent?
Yeah. What does this say even about me that I am able to watch this? And I'm not saying judge yourself or shame yourself for watching things, but then I'm like, as a woman, I crave seeing something that has love and sex and like seduction and there's, there's just a very, very few shows. Right. Or movies or whatever. So I say that not because my work is about TV and movies,
but I look at it as a, so it did start there. Yeah. I did start there. But I look at it as a reflection of where we are as a culture. Yeah. Like looking, It's, it's like a, it's like a, a mirroring of the collective unconscious. Yeah. And the porn too. It's like w where,
where there's so many people watching porn, right. Like, I don't know the numbers, but again, statistically quite large. And yet we can't have a nibble or a sex scene on the tele like, what, where's, where's this kind of rift? And so I do think there's still a huge rift with our sexuality. It takes me back to the wound of repression and how that is the,
the land that I live on that is now called the United States of America. The people that came that were, you know, Protestant puritans that came with this badge of honor of repression. Like they were a people that stand, that stood and stand probably still, but for repressing their sexual desires, their emotions, Yes. As a moral imperative. Yes. And that is in my blood,
same and a lot of people's blood. And so we, I still think we're like working through that majorly again, otherwise we wouldn't see the violence even of, you know, a young kid picking up a gun and who you look and you see that this kid has a history of, you know, loneliness or isolation or being traumatized and then inflicts it on someone else.
Right. It's like, again, it's that wound of holding it all in. Right. Right. Because there's not a safe space. It things are changing. Yeah. But there aren't a lot of safe spaces for that level of honesty and expression. Well, even In my programs or even sometimes with my friends is less with my friends, but still,
it will be certainly in my programs, if we're on a Zoom coaching call or something, or even if I lead a retreat, it is a knee jerk thing to have an emotion to start to cry while sharing a story or an insight or whatever and to immediately apologize. Yeah. So even that in communities where like you signed up and paid money to heal Yeah.
To feel and still we're apologizing for doing it. Yeah. So like, why do we do that? And what's a suggestion that you have around just some basic places to start if you come from a repre repressed family? A repressed culture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, awareness is always for any kind of thing that we're trying to transform, awareness is key.
So it's like if you're in that circle of women and you start crying and you notice that you either these kind of somatic indicators that you either put your hands over your face or another one I see a lot of women do is like this. Right? Yeah. And everybody has their sort of thing. Right. Or just like fast wiping. These are again,
like we're using our hands, we're trying to get rid of it. Yep. We're trying to hide it. What was the other, we're trying to fan it away, you know, so those are like, oh wait, let me just come into awareness. What, what am I doing? Mm. I'm trying to fan my tears away. Okay.
Interesting. Cute. I love you girl. Do you need to do that? No. You know? Yeah. So it's obviously not shaming yourself when we're trying to change a pattern. Like so much love and compassion. But noticing is always the first step. I talk about that in my first book. Awareness. Oh, this is a thing that I do.
Fuck. So a lot of people then you're like, fuck, that's so annoying. What do I do? It's like, okay, that voice isn't gonna help you. So now could you have a little bit of a pause between you and that reaction? So again, the, the moment happens in your life where you notice, or you're about to pick up the phone to scroll because you feel lonely or something.
Right. Or whatever the thing is that you're gonna do. You're about to like go have the third drink because you're like, again, like lonely, sad, whatever it is. Stopping and just pausing and going, huh. Interesting. Yeah. Like interesting, curious. And I didn't invent that. I don't know the, the curiosity moment is an important moment I think a lot of people talk about where you just get curious about the pattern,
the behavior, the un that is what's making the unconscious conscious. And in that moment, if you can stop and take a breath, you create a small pattern interrupt. Yeah. Maybe it'll still take you 500 times before it changes. And that's okay. Think about it. If you, all the women in your lineage have never cried in public or have,
you know, tried to get rid of their tears in public for so long and you're the one just trying to change that. You're working against this like rushing river of tendency. And so for you to stop it, I'm like, Hey, guess what? You may not stop at this generation. You still might have like threads of addiction running through you or threads of like,
you know, hiding or avoiding or martyring or whatever it is you like to do whatever it is you were taught or whatever. And so it's just the small moments where you can stop and even you can say it out loud. I love doing that with clients and myself. It's like just saying out loud, oh, I noticed. Like I was literally,
you were talking to me, Kate, and you said something about money and I literally went to pick up my phone unconsciously. 'cause I wanted to avoid being in the conversation with you. I could just say that out loud to you. Right. And go, I'm gonna put the phone down and take a breath and maybe notice why I'm getting triggered about this.
Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. What is the risk that we run if we don't let ourselves feel? Because I will just say like when I'm those places of going for a numbing behavior, whether it's like eating chips in the pantry at 11 o'clock at night or Standing there. Yes. In the dark. Standing there in the dark. Yeah. Yeah.
Not one. I sort of nipped in the bud. Yeah. I'm so grateful. 'cause it was not great for my digestion. Yeah. But it definitely, like, I can feel it sometimes, especially if I'm overtired. Yeah. I don't like that. That I, It feels like if I let myself feel sometimes I'm going to die. Yeah.
So it feels like, okay, probably eating chips is a better choice, but I'm just Right. It's like, What is the risk that we run in not, not feeling. Yeah. Like what does repression lead to? You did speak to it in the violence in our culture, which I think is so true on a systemic macro level, but on a micro level in our own individual lives,
what are we missing out on? Oh gosh, that's such a good question. Because we're literally missing out on our lives. So when we can't feel our lives, we can't feel love, we can't feel pleasure, we can't feel joy. Or we're feeling it like at a level two. Yeah. And so we could be feeling it at a level seven,
eight, you know, actually one of the ways that I like to know and notice how, where I'm at feeling wise is like, when's the last time I had a cry about something beautiful? Mm. Like, when's the last time I let myself be touched by seeing a friend or seeing something beautiful, A beautiful song and not just like in a PMSy hormonal.
Right, right, right. So just taking that into consideration. But even Though those tears are real too, too those totally real, however Yes. Totally real and important because they give you almost like the practice of letting yourself be moved if that's do how PMS impacts You. And they also release excess estrogen. Great. Just ffy. I didn't know that part.
Amazing. So those moments are important. And I have, I have one of my good friends, like, she's like, oh, I'm just PMS. I'm like, no, this is actually the time that you let yourself feel the most because you have to. Yes. And that's really important for you. So let this be a practice for you.
Because one thing I tell a lot of my clients and students, it's like, it's gonna feel a little dramatic. Yeah. You know? And because I'm half Brazilian and I come from a Brazilian family who they all feel, I don't know if I'm not saying all Brazilians are dramatic, but my family is, and when they're talking or at a dinner,
it's, there's so much passion. Yeah. So much aliveness. And so I have that reference point. Yeah. Even though the other side of my family is super like white, British, Irish kind of background, like super repressed, buttoned up peoples. But it's gonna feel a little dramatic when as if you're sitting at that table with my family in Brazil and everybody's yelling and everybody's like,
you know, and kind of getting into each other's business and laughing and whatever. But allowing yourself a little bit of space just to expand a little bit past the comfort zone of feeling is so important. But noticing, am I touched by something and am I touched by something that is painful as well? And like you said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna speak first to the collective and then the personal,
it can feel overwhelming. And so if you're somebody who grew up and you notice that you were more sensitive, which maybe you are, if you're listening to this podcast, then likely you learned how to cut that sensitivity down in order to survive. And that is, there's nothing wrong with that. Like that's okay. Especially if someone went through some sort of a trauma as well.
It's like I had to survive. Yeah. And that's, that's actually perfect. So then what do you stay in that survival mechanism? No. You wanna kind of pull and, and press and massage yourself into a state of openness. Again, you can look at it very similarly to like, if you hurt yourself doing some sort of an exercise or some sort of a sport,
it's like, okay, then you have an injury. Right. Does that mean you're not going to play the sport ever again? Hopefully not. Does that mean you're not gonna stretch that, that space and go, Ooh, it hurts a bit. Oh God, I don't think I can do it. No. You say, I don't think I can do it.
But then you, you try again. So we're not taught that same skill with like our heart, our loving. Right. We get hurt, we shut down and we often become hard bitter. We then navigate our lives in a way to avoid pain, avoid discomfort. Right. Modern life is a lot about avoiding pain and discomfort. So if you're sort of getting a little bit more into like,
wait a minute, I don't wanna live that way. I wanna live in a way that is more fun and awake and alive. I wanna feel the joy like to the nth degree and the love to the nth degree. I don't want everything to be sort of in this safety place. Right. Like muted. Yeah, exactly. But I think a lot of people are living that way because of the numbing.
It's so true. So it was, I don't know, like maybe a year and a half ago I was just driving to a dentist appointment and I just, since I moved, so I moved to Miami. It'll be three years this month, three years ago. Where were you guys before? Maine. Okay. Like, I don't know. Yeah.
We were in Maine. Yeah. And Maine is a much more culturally repressed place than Miami. Totally. You Know, for a lot of different reasons. It's cold, it's, you know, Puritan roots, all sorts of things. Yeah. And that time in my life was a time of a real deep feeling. 'cause my husband was sick. There was a lot going on in my family also in the world.
Just like a very stressful time in 2021 for us. And I let myself feel in ways I never had before. Like one day my daughters came out and they were I think like four and six at the time. And my, I, my daughter was frustrating me so much with something about a hairbrush, I can't even recall. Hair is a big deal.
And I, yep. It was. And I put down the brush and I was like, mama's just gonna go take a break right now. And she, she goes, mama, are you gonna go scream into a pillow in the closet again? And I was like, yes. I'm, thank you for asking. Aw. But that's the sort of thing that I was doing,
which I had never given myself permission to do before. Wow. So then though, like about six months later, I'm just putting these Yeah. Dots together as we're chat chatting here six months later ish, let's just say I'm driving to a dentist appointment and I was so overcome by joy that I had to leave a voice memo for my girlfriend and just be like,
there is literally no external reason to be joyful right now. I'm just loving my life so much. I'm like on the way to the dentist obsessed with this moment. And I just have to share. And I wanna share that because those moments are pretty mundane, but I can see the degree to which that level of joy was available before. Yeah. And I wasn't accessing it because I wasn't screaming into a pillow in the closet.
Yeah. Yeah. Or doing whatever else I was doing. Needing to feel on the other side. Yeah. And you know, and in my life there were like a lot of reasons to feel, but I think it was uncorking Yeah. Decades Yeah. Of, of stuff. Yeah. That was like, needed to pass through. So in, in your experience,
is that what happens, like once we start, is it, are we then like, diving in and, and what do we do when it feels like if I start to cry, right, I'm going to cry for the rest of my life, so I can't actually open that particular door. Yes. And that's Or scream Yeah. Or Whatever. That's the part of your question from before that I still wanted to answer.
Like that feeling of I'm going to die if I feel all of this. Yeah. Or never get out of that. Or never get out of it or off the floor. And, and I'm not a, you know, licensed psychotherapist. I work with people in their emotional body, spiritual body, like mental, all, all the time. And I've had my own really deep journey and relationship to myself and been mentored by amazing people and all this.
So I'm speaking from that position. I think that there's definitely a correlation to trauma and the degree of which we've experienced different traumas. So if someone has experienced a certain type of trauma that they froze at a young age, I mean, that's a whole journey. And I've worked with people on that journey. I've been a relationship with people on that journey.
And there are so many different ways that people shut down. So you can look at like polyvagal theory and you can look into all kinds of different somatic kind of ways of understanding yourself, your nervous system, all that. You do a lot of nervous system work as as well. So if you don't have the, let's say capacity in your nervous system to hold emotions and to hold a certain type of emotion,
it will feel like you could, like you, you're gonna die. Right. So that is, I look at it again as like a practice. How can you practice just titrating a little bit? A little bit? And everybody's little bit is different. Yeah. I've led retreats and my little bit has been at moments women have been like, oh hell no,
this is frightening. And I'm like, yeah, my little bit's a little hot. And that was when I was younger. Maybe now I would take it a little slower with people just knowing that sometimes when you ask a woman to sort of uncap that emotional place, it can be a total tidal wave that comes forward. And I don't know what it's like with men as much,
but it's their own journey or anyone else. But I do think that we've gotta do it. Yeah. And so everybody may have a different way that you do it that feels safe to you. Mine has been, and you, it's in the book, it's like a little bit step into the fire. So it's a little bit like face it. Yep.
Like head on some people it's like, okay, just like open the door in therapy once a week. Right, right. Just really little bit. It depends what it's taking away from your life. Totally. So for me, I'm like, oh my, whatever I'm avoiding within myself is taking away my ability to be in a healthy, committed relationship.
So I wanna face it head on. Right. And that meant at the beginning of my relationship when we had ruptures, sometimes I fully reverted to my child self, who was just like, go in a room, shut the door and just be defeated and just be like kind of this voice inside, which I, I love parts work. I've done a lot of parts work with my mentor.
Same, just like this voice. I know it's not me, but it's a part of me that was like, see Alexandra, I told you you'll never be loved. See, you'll never find love. And so I had to sit in that excruciating place where I was literally ready to walk outta that relationship so many times. Because when the ruptures felt too intense,
that little voice was just like, yeah, I told you so girl. Like the, like, it's just, it's not gonna happen. It's not this, this is another one. Bites the dust and it's just, oh, such a fatalistic voice. I mean, I can laugh at her too 'cause it's just so dark and like, you know,
existential at times. And then there's like a little child voice that's really sweet. And there were times where, where Eli just sat with me. I mean, makes me wanna cry, think, you know, thinking about it. He just sat with me on the other side of the bathroom door while I sat in the bathroom crying because I just couldn't face being that loved.
And so I had to try to run away from it. Or I, I thought I couldn't have the emotions in front of him, so I needed to go in the bathroom and freak out and be sad. And he was like, no, no, no, I'm here. I I'm, I wanna stay with you in this moment and be with you.
But the little girl me hadn't experienced that because of my own stuff. And so I didn't feel safe to feel in front of another person that deeply. Yeah. So that took, I think the first two years of our relationship That's so beautiful. Like the titration of like, okay, but I can feel on the other side of the bathroom door. I know it's just like him sitting on the other side of the bathroom door And I wanna know Which,
which is totally vulnerable and embarrassing. I am like a grownup who does this for work, who helps people. Yeah. And I'm like running to the bathroom to feel my feelings because I'm feeling so scared of this amount of intimacy and love. It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. For our listeners who really are wanting to attract that level of partnership, Get to know your Intimacy,
what are your tips? Yeah. Well get to know your intimacy issues. You know, I mean, I say that tongue in cheek 'cause issues is not the kindest word in the world, but get to know how you love, how you open, how you close. Look at your past relationships and go, huh, do I see some patterns? They may look different,
they may be different genders, they may be different, you know, ages, but what's the through line? And there it's always about us, right? It's like we cannot blame somebody else. And the thing is, is for me, I was like, well I keep choosing these relationships or the person is not fully available where I'm in a little bit more of a position of power so I can leave when I want,
which helps me to avoid the wound of rejection, which is another one of the core wounds that almost every human just has. Yeah. And so what happens if I choose a partner who's an equal, who may reject me, who I have to be out of control with, so I got to know my stuff. It's like, if you are looking for that level of openness with someone,
you have to know your stuff. You have to get familiar with it. Get kind of compassionate. I always tell my clients, I'm like, if you can't name me like five shadows or behaviors that you do that are not helpful to you, like a you don't have any, congratulations, I don't, you don't need to work with me, then please don't pay me.
Right? Yeah. But if you can't name those, then we have some work I want you to get to know so that they're not unconscious. Right. So that you can know about yourself. Oh look, I'm doing that thing again. And I'm not saying that I only want people to look at their, their kind of shadow side or their shitty side or their terrible side or their,
you know, whatever you wanna call it. I mean, you don't have to be judgy. And that's revealing my own shadow that I can judge myself. But it's knowing ourselves, again, coming with curiosity. And so if you're dating someone and you know that usually around date three, you start kind of figuring, oh, start judging them, let's say,
or holding them to impossible standards. Or you jump into the bed with them really quickly to want to like use sex as love. You just wanna know these things about yourself so that then you could decide if you wanna change them or not. Right. You may still do it. I mean, I did a lot of the same stuff with, with Eli,
but I was Aware of it. I was like, Well that's, that's the thing because when it becomes conscious, then it's not driving the bus without you knowing Exactly. Then. Like, it can still be there. It can still be there. You know, it will. Absolutely. Yeah. I, that's, that's so great. And, And then I can tell him,
Hey, Right, I'm doing this thing. I'm doing this thing. That's something that our therapist, David, has helped Mike and I with a lot of the times is like naming the shadow pattern or he calls it our, you know, our part. You know, he does a lot of inter internal family systems work. And then he'll be like,
just let each other know like, oh hey, like one of my parts is the tallier. I was like, oh, the Tallier iss here. And then Mike's just like, thanks for letting me know. Right. And then the Tallier doesn't need to be fighting so hard to be in control. 'cause she's like, oh, thanks for seeing me.
Now I can relax. Yeah. It's wild how that works. And it seems like so simple, but it's very effective. Okay. Yeah. One last thing I wanna say about that is that I just feel like because we consider these things to be sort of private and hidden, we, unless we're people like us who are part talking about it publicly,
there is a tendency for people to feel so much shame around the fact that we all have issues and we all have tendencies. And like there's a, a liberation of going I do. You do. We all do. So instead of you just talking about them really in private or in your journal or whatever, could you be comfortable enough that you could say it to even your best friend?
I'm not saying you have to post about it on social media, but like even to tell your best friend, wow, I have a tendency to only go for people that satisfy this surface image of what I want. And it often eclipses my capacity to feel their heart or if they're a good person. And so I may be saying goodbye to some potential amazing partners because I'm so caught up in their appearance and I just want UK as my friend to know that.
And maybe would you let me know if you see me do it again? And that is very vulnerable. It takes conscious friendship, conscious relating, but I think that's the step, right? Because otherwise it's just happening all internally maybe with a therapist. But not everybody goes to therapy. No. Most people probably don't. And so the pattern just keeps playing out.
And, and I hope both of my books are like, just advocating for people. Like, Hey, your soul work here is your, is why you're here. Not here just to get the car and the house and the this and the that. You're here to evolve. I believe in that, you know? Totally. Yeah. Like, what's your curriculum?
Yeah, for sure. Now you've become a mother recently, and I heard you talk about something from your first book around like this feeling of entering spaces with sort of your full throttle sexual energy and just being like, this is, you know, this is who I am and it's fine if it makes you uncomfortable. And, and then, and then learning to like maybe modulate that over time.
And I wanted to know whether it's around, you know, sexual expression, sexual energy, or it's around emotional expression and emotional energy. And then I'll get back to the motherhood question. Actually, I'm realizing I'm asking you a different question. Fine. What do we, what do we do about caring for the hearts and just like other people's feelings in our own desire to fully express and how do we not,
like if you are somebody like me who is very sensitive to the people around me, my default will always be to tone it down so everyone else is comfortable. Yeah. But I can also see like you had shared maybe from some of your previous years with zero regrets of like being fully expressed, even if it pushed people's buttons, which is medicinal for the collective also.
Right? So like how do we think about modulating between those two things when, when it comes to our feelings and when it comes to our sexuality? Because so much of that energy can feel like it is too much for other people. And I would say one of the number one reasons people don't go for it in those areas is because of feeling like it's gonna hurt other people or just make them uncomfortable.
Right. Right. Right. Well, I talk about this kind of thing that happens with a lot of women in my first book of too much or never enough. Right? And so if you have like the too much wound, maybe you're always worried that you're too much and you're sort of hypervigilant about how you express, and then maybe sometimes you don't give a fuck.
But then you realize, oh shit, maybe I was too much. You know? And then there are, there are some people again on this kind of spectrum who are like, oh, I'm never enough. Like I walked in, but I like, wasn't this enough or that enough. So there's a sense of knowing yourself and knowing where you fall.
Right. Are you a person that is at a dinner table taking up a lot of space, laughing hugely and not noticing that there are a lot of other people there whose voices may be long to be heard. Again, it's not your responsibility to take care of them in that way, but if it's someone you love, you could just notice and make some space for them.
So discernment is a word that I love. Boundaries is a very popular word. These, when I, when I think about how do we find ourselves in that space of, okay, I need to set a boundary. Like I, I, I just ex I I just am, am expressing too much, or I'm at the opposite end of somebody else's expression.
And it, their expression is now kind of taking over, et cetera. It's like boundaries and discernment, like about what you need in a given moment. 'cause it's not one size fits all. Right? You are gonna hold yourself differently at the post office and then not a dinner party with pre with your friends. Presumably. Presumably. Presumably. Exactly.
And so, so at a dinner party with your friends, you may show your full essence and be in this like radiant or sensual or whatever way. But when you're dropping your kids off and you walk them into school, you may not wear that as your kind of front facing self. Doesn't mean you're abandoning your other aspects of your being, but you're just noticing.
And the thing is, we're not one thing. Right. But when we're healing a particular aspect of the self, it can be that a while. It kind of has to be pushed to the front. And so I love that when people are like, okay, finally I get to be sensual. And then all of a sudden you see that this,
this wound is healing. And online on Instagram, everybody's just like, I'm just look at my, me and my, you know, sensuality. It's like, cool, that's, that's a emblematic of this moment that, that that's healing. Then there's a shadow side of that. Okay, now that is kind of this thing that maybe somebody is clinging to and it's the only part of their identity,
et cetera. And that's how each of us evolves on our journey. Right? Right. And so I had moments in my life where I was just like, yeah, rock expressed, you know, one of my mentors, Kate Shea, who's this incredible woman, she was like, when you walked into my class the first time, it was just like sex on a stick.
She was like, now you're realizing that you don't have to lead like that in the world all the time. You know, you can choose if you want to, but it doesn't have to be your shtick in a way or your, like the mask or that you wear. Right. But for a while I had to, because I needed to heal that,
so I needed to like Yes. Put out there. It's like you needed to clear those particular pipes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. And so I think we get to just keep choosing. And it's also again, about it not being unconscious. Like, not like every room I walk into, I have to be this wild seductress.
It's like maybe on a given day I'm in that mood, but on another day I'm just like in a quiet, tender mood. Totally. I think as women, we've been taught often that like, we kind of have to be a thing and that's it. And that's It. Right. You talked about the, you know, you can be mother or virgin.
Yeah. Or Yeah, yeah. And The Yeah. Right. These are the three Yeah. These are the three choices. Yeah. That came to us via our, via the Ancestors religious programming. Yeah. And so now that you are a mother, I'm so curious now you're early in motherhood. Totally. So like I know you will give me a very different answer when I asked you this question in five years.
Yeah. But just because yeah, it's up. Like how has your relationship with sexuality and with your body shifted since becoming a mom? Because it's wild. Yeah, it's wild. It's wild. I mean, I felt really hot pregnant. That's great. I felt great. Felt like I'm hot. I was like, I'm loving this pregnant body. We also left Colorado for Florida around that time.
So there was also like warmth and humidity and swimming. And I got to just kind of be in my pregnant body, like outside in like the hot and steamy summer. I mean also super hot and you know, the little teen Hot. And in Florida, A hundred percent being pregnant in the summer in Florida would be really? Yeah. Its own its own thing.
Initiate. It's, yeah. So, but I, I loved my pregnant body. I never was like, maybe there are a few moments where I was like, oh, these clothes don't fit. Oh wow. Like this, I'm now like 175 pounds. I've never been that before. There's nothing wrong with that number at all. Just it was new for me.
Yeah. But then that kind of just rolled off me. I wondered if I would have any moments of kinda like body image stuff come up. And again, maybe like a little at the beginning, but then I was just like, ah, this is so liberating. Great to just be free in my body. And I felt like my partner was like,
hot for it too. Cool. You know? I mean, it's not, in my opinion, and I don't know if this is tmmi for your podcast, but you can say anything and the bigger I got, the harder I was like, this sex is not super easy for me. No, logistically. It's tricky. It's tricky. And for me,
like this probably, you know, I don't know. Here we go. Like, I couldn't lie down on my back from very early with both of my pregnancies. So like, yeah. This is a whole thing. Yeah. No, also the belly's in the way, The belly's in the way it's heavy. Yeah. You're holding yourself up. That's heavy or that's a lot,
you know, you're on your side. It's, you know, it's just like, it's a lot. But, and there's comedy in that there know is, and I love that comedy and, but I still felt hot also even after I gave birth and I had stitches and my nipples were bloody and I was bleeding and you're wearing all these pads and changing them every,
no one told me about how intense that would be. Anyway. All Good. You know what, I will just say, like, everyone says that, and I thought about this. So my cousin is like a sister to me, and I will never forget the moment I was saying goodbye to her. She was so pregnant. I knew the next time I saw her,
she was gonna have a baby. And I was like, there's so much I could say, but it's like, would it have been helpful? I don't know. I Don't know if someone told me, just so you know, there's gonna be a lot of blood for a while. Would that have been helpful? I think so. Okay. That's good to know.
Yeah. Because like, I don't ever wanna like scare people, but at the same time, like Yeah, it's wild. It's a, it's a lot. So, but I, but I will say The frozen pads. Yeah. Frozen pads. Oh. Like even with a lot of blood bleeding, nipple cracked nipples, like, you know, everything.
I still felt like so hot from my partner right after. I mean Wow. Nothing was gonna happen. Yeah. No, of course. I don't know if it was my hormones changing or, but, and also seeing him as a father, I think I know, right? I immediately just like, something inside me was like, oh my God,
it's beautiful. And it had nothing to do with like actually having sex in that moment. It was more about like this deep turn on. But that's your whole thing. Yes. Is that, fuck, like a Goddess is about having a love affair with your life and with creation energy. Yeah. It's not, you know, it's like, let life have you Yes.
You know, and have life Yeah. In that way. Like, you know, I think we, we've, we've pornified the erotic, you know, erotic is life force. Erotic is like the divine spark. It's like we are alive. Right? Yeah. And, and so I love that you said that, and I'm so glad. I love hearing women's stories that do go against the typical narrative in terms of motherhood and sexuality.
I, you know, I hope you talk more and more about that because we need models Hmm. Of what it could be like to be a really sexy mother. Hmm. Maybe that could be another book title for you. I know, I was, I was like, I told Eli, I was like, my next role is hot mama. I was like,
maybe I should change my IG handle now. Okay. And, and it is funny because like, like my former, like my mentor had said, like, that's always been a part of my identity. Of course. Does it have to be the front facing all the time? No. Like, you know, I told my therapist, I was like,
yeah, like I was slutty, you know? And she's like, oh. I'm like, yes, slutty Hass been a part of my identity. And I'm like, but now I'm the evolved version. Right. Like, right. But whatever the words are, I say it again, tongue in cheek, like that kind of sexual expression. Yeah.
For me at a young age, because I had access to my Brazilian side, I feel like I had this expression and then I had the, the other side, which was the Methodist church telling me that if I ever masturbated that I was going to hell because I had that, I like got to play in both of those realms and experience it. Yeah.
And you got to know that both of them exist. Yeah. And there's definitely like, more than just those poles. Right, right. But I do think for, for motherhood or whatever, whatever phase it is in that you're in, it's like, it doesn't, the sexuality doesn't have to look a certain way. Hot doesn't have to look a certain way.
Yeah. Like, I'm dressed up right now, but like, you know, most of the time I'm wearing like a nursing bra that's half on, half off my hair is, you know, whatever. But I can still feel hot and alive and radiant and like erotic in that moment. It doesn't mean I'm having sex. I mean, I don't know how new parents have sex.
You know, my, my child will sleep 10 minutes, like, and then she'll wake up. I mean, I'm sure people can get a lot done in 10 minutes, but I'm just like, yeah. Part of, part of what created an erotic energy, I think for me was that I couldn't have him. Hmm. So when now we have another human,
and I realized, oh my God, I can't just roll into his arms. I am because there's this other person. And it just made me long for him so deeply. Now that's shifted a little because, well, you know, this is just kind of how it is. But those first few weeks of motherhood, I was like this deep longing for the thing that I knew would change that every night I slept in his arms.
And now every night, like she's sleeping in our arms and she's incredible. We're super in love with her. And you know, I this the next, the, the first visitor that comes to stay with us, that can, like, we trust to take her even on a walk, you know, around the block. I'm gonna say, can we have 30 minutes?
Yeah, Totally. Because I don't know how else people do it. You can tell me later how you, I mean, so much of, so much of life before the kids were three is a complete blur. Yeah. I will be totally honest. Yeah. But I am, and of course everybody's value system is different and everyone's sense of safety is different.
My one thing that I will say, and maybe somebody listening needs to hear this, okay, maybe it's you, I don't know, is like having more caregivers who your baby feels safe with from as early on. I mean, you're so early. Right. But like, we started bringing in additional caregivers when Penelope was three months old. She was my first.
So around your time and I just can't even tell you. Not a million. Right. You know, we were her primary. However, just having that wider base of support Yeah. Was absolutely critical. And now that I live in a city where we don't have family, just really building that net Yeah. And that web to know that like, and I also think it's really good for kids Yeah.
To feel that they are safe with many people. Yeah. There was a beautiful, I don't know if you've read Mothering from your center by Tammy Lynn Kent? No, but I've read her other book. Okay. So it, what's the name of her other book? Wild Feminine and Wild Creative. I've, I've read Wild Feminine. Okay. For sure.
Read Mothering from Your Center. Okay. And she shares a story in there about a woman who was raised in a village setting, like in a tribe. And in that particular setting, all the women, mother, all the babies. So she was four years old before she realized that she had come out of a particular woman's body. Wow. Right.
Wow. I know. I want that. I know. And I mean, and, and I'm sure there are pluses and minuses, like across the board, but it sounds nice. The way we do it in our culture puts a lot of pressure. Yeah. On the primary parents. Yeah. On the mother and father or the, you know,
the, the mother and mother, the father, father, whoever. Yeah. And so anyway, yeah. All the support that you can get. Yeah. Of course. Family, friends, whoever. And like, and like really building in one of my friends, Sarah Jenks was like, oh yeah, no, no, we like trained my parents and Jonathan's parents as early as possible to be able to do the bedtime routine.
And I was like, oh, how practical. Yeah. Really interesting. So, anyway, I, I, I mean I love that. I wish that our parents were able, they're not. Yeah, totally. But we are introducing our first caregiver this month at three months-ish, you know. Wow. That's exciting. I think she's gonna be more like a mother's helper to start.
Beautiful. But we'll see how it goes. But just having That like, so you could go take a shower. Absolutely. Honestly, it's such a game changer. Yeah. Okay. So as you are coming back into your, like out of postpartum quote unquote, I mean, I think you never are, they say you are, you never are.
But like out of the, the three month window has a particular flavor. Yeah, it really does. Yeah. Like that first 40 days and that first three months has a real particular flavor and you are stepping slowly out of that first three month chapter. So I'm curious, and you have a book out. Yeah. So what are you feeling like in this moment around your identity as a writer,
as a businesswoman? How is that different than perhaps before you went into Yeah. The cocoon? Yeah. And yeah, what are you feeling right now? Well, I feel like it's been changing for a while. That like, my fuck, like a Goddess identity in like 2018 to 2020. I was like, boom, here I am. I've got a thing to tell you.
Yeah. I'm gonna be super sexy about it. And then I met Eli and I was kinda like, oh my God, I finally met this man. He sort of freaks me out, like I'm intimidated by him and he's very private, so like he doesn't want us to let me be like, good morning. Here we are eating our, yeah.
And I was like, damnit. I really liked my like, morning stories. Okay. Sacrificing that for love. Yes, fine. Will do. So worth it. But then I, but it, you know, I started changing a little bit and maturing in a certain ways and having to look at certain parts of myself. Is this real? Is this me?
Is this true? Oh yeah, that's true. Oh, that maybe has expired. And that journey has been really interesting. And I love supporting women in this sort of transitions and, and looking at what about you is, is no longer working for you and why? And can you bear the discomfort of not knowing exactly where you're going before you let certain things go?
Especially if the identities that we've been wearing have been really fruitful. Yeah. And created a lot of security. So there's a balance. It's not just burning the ship down. Right. But it's also not holding on to something that is old that we've outgrown just because it quote unquote worked at a certain time. So that's felt scary for me because certain things about my business really like worked for a certain time.
And then I, I was like, I gotta let that go, but I don't really know who I'm becoming yet, and I can't just stop showing up in the world. So I'll keep showing up in this messy middle where I feel a little undefined. I feel like my message is less clear or sort of packageable, but I'm gonna keep showing up anyway.
Maybe it's less popular 'cause it's less sort of like, you know, direct or laser focused, but I'm just gonna keep showing up in it. So my business has evolved as my identity has evolved, and maybe there's like a softness that has come that maybe some people were like, oh, that doesn't resonate with me anymore. I actually appreciate it. Just like fiery Alexandra who didn't give a fuck.
You know? Totally fine. Right. And then other people have come to me who are women who have come to me as clients and students who are like, wow, I was on this kind of ambition, like empowered trained where I was strong, independent, sexy, and, and, but I, but I was alone. And now I wanna soften.
Mm. And now I wanna slow down and now I wanna feel my heart more. And now I wanna be felt more. I love working with those women, kind of like the former type A or former badass or former, not saying that I got rid of any of those parts of me, but they just aren't the ones. Again, like you said,
driving everything. Yes. So I, I am loving the evolution though. It has felt scary. 'cause it's less defined. Yeah. It's like softer around the edges. Like people, if you ask me like, what's your mission statement right now? Or something like that, it'd be like, it's still forming. Yeah. You know, but this book encapsulates kind of that as in a way of like,
is there a space to let the, this feminine heart and this kind of feminine soul lead without it being so compartmentalized, I don't know. It's harder on social media. It's, which is not, you know, like a barometer. How Well, thank you. How well something does on social media has zero bearing to its inherent value. Yeah. So We'll just say that.
But you know, when something is more kind of squishy and less defined Right. It's just Like Yeah. Like motherhood is very much like that. Yeah. And it's just amorphous. Yeah. And, and to really learn to love that kind of softer edges gray area. Yeah. The, the process of becoming is super beautiful. Yeah. That being said,
if I have a course come out in a few months, it's like, hot mama 1 0 1. I would take it honestly, like there's something, so even though like I'm at a different phase of motherhood than you are, there's something very medicinal about even hearing you share about what it's been like in these first couple of months to be like, wow, there's,
you know, it wasn't like that for me. And when I hear the stories and get to sit with women for whom it was, it's like it goes back and gives me something I didn't get to have. Mm. And like heals that part of me. Like I feel like I did get to. So thank you. Okay, great. It's really lovely.
It's really nourishing. Mm. We haven't talked much about money and you know, I don't think we're gonna get there much today, but I do wanna kind of wrap up with a question. And that question is, if you could go back in time and tell your, like maybe somewhere in the 18 to 22-year-old self, a piece of wisdom that you've gathered around money or abundance or a sense of plenty or enoughness,
what might you share with her? Do not put things on a credit card girl. How practical. I mean, okay. One trip a year on a credit card. Fine. Beyond that, no. Put that card somewhere else. Start paying off your student loan debt. Now I know you don't want to, but just start, it's gonna feel good.
Start saving. Now again, I know you don't want to, but just start doing it now. These things are good for you. You won't remember in 20 years, like, you know, if how many dinners out a week you did or went to or whatever. But you will remember how much money is in your savings account. And so I think that financial health is important for you.
My sweet, sweet girl. Even though you're a wild and free spirit and you don't wanna think about that stuff right now, it is a part of your internal health to think about it right now. What else would I tell her that Was good? Stop judging people that have money. I would tell my 22-year-old, she was so kind of like activisty and artsy and like,
she would just be like, oh, the bourgeois. You know? So I would say stop judging people that have money. That's obviously a shadow part of you that's coming out. And instead start thinking about, you know, what about that bothers you? Like what is it Right? And what, what is it that you actually have a little bit of jealousy around?
Yeah. Yeah. She was definitely kind of, you know, anti-establishment and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And like only shopped at like vintage and you know, da da da and wore that as a badge. I actually remember a story if you, if there's space for it to tell. So when I started getting into filmmaking and I, I met a new group of friends and everybody was like a bit shiny and,
and sparkly and in New York, and I was in la I had gone to LA to do a month of writing on a film project with my collaborator. And there were a lot of fancy people around, and I was still had a lot of shadow around my own kind of money and student loan debt and credit cards, all this stuff. And I was in the car with these two gals and I had on like a Rodarte like sweater,
but it was like Rodarte for Target. I don't know if you remember, they did a line whatever. Okay. I love that. And one of the girls in the front seat, she was like, she was like, oh, I love that sweater. I love those designers. Like they're amazing. And I was like, I bought it used and it's the target line.
And she looked at me and she said, why are you wearing that as a badge? You didn't have to tell me that. I was just appreciating your sweater. Wow. And I remember I felt ugh, foot in my mouth, like, wow, why am I wearing as a badge? This like, I am a starving artist. I only shop at thrift stores,
dah, dah, dah, dah. And I started really kind of calling into attention how I spoke about money and why. And then that led me on a whole journey around healing with money, which is a beautiful journey. I mean, it never ends. But I did a lot of deep work around, you know, kind of my late twenties into early thirties.
And that was such an important part of work. I mean, and now I'm doing the kind of the next phase of it. But that first phase was a lot of heavy lifting. Yeah. So Beautiful. Yeah. And so, so well invested that time and energy because so much of what your daughter will live out of her money legacy. Well she won't have to carry that.
Yeah. So she'll have to carry her own stuff. But yeah, not as much of your stuff. Yeah. Hopefully Not. Great. I'm trying to drop off some baggage before I become a mom trying To lighten her load. I know. I mean, we do our best. We do. We do our best. Okay. So if people want to learn more,
connect with you, where should they they go? Where do they, where do you want them to go? Yeah, So I work with clients one-on-one in coaching and mentorship. Like I'm, like I mentioned, I love working with women who are wanting to open to love, get into their bodies more deeply awake in their sensuality and that have an awareness of healing.
Like there's a healing component to my work. It's not just coaching that's like, you go girl. Like let's get you out there. It's also let's investigate some of the shadows, why things aren't happening in the way Yes, thank you. Why things aren't happening in the way you want, et cetera. So I love working with women, especially strong women,
you know, entrepreneurs, women who have that kind of ferocity to them and want to cultivate their other aspects. I also have a group mentorship called Radical Awakenings, where I do different spiritual central practices and creative practices with women just to kinda keep those things moving in your life. And my books, you can buy anywhere that books are sold. My website is my name and I'm on Instagram.
You can find me there. Amazing. And Kate was on my podcast, so we had find My podcast a good conversation. That was A good one. Yeah. Yeah. We'll link that all in the show notes, so we'll have everything for you. Yeah. So thank you so much for being here today and for sharing. I just, I adore you.
I'm grateful for this conversation. I'm grateful for your writing. I'm grateful for your courage. Thank you. Thank you for your great questions and for having me here today. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this yummy episode of Plenty I feel really filled up. I hope you do too. So go and buy yourself a copy of Fuck Like a Goddess and also Dare to Feel Follow Alexandra,
learn about all her programs. And as always, if you liked this episode, go ahead and please just text it to a friend. Just let them know what they're gonna get out of it and subscribe, follow along and I will see you next time for Plenty. Woo-hoo. You made it to the end of an episode of Plenty. Don't You Feel expanded already?
So if you liked this episode, go ahead and leave us a review. Subscribe to the podcast, text a Friend and let them know they need to listen in. That helps us spread the word so more people can experience plenty together. And if you want to ease your path to creating wealth, I created a money Breakthrough guide for you where I interviewed over 20 of my high earning women friends,
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