F*ck Fear with Christine Spratley: Living Like a Head Bitch In Charge | L = Listen to understand, not to respond.

PART 2 of 5

Mastering the Art of Listening: Overcoming the Advice Monster | Fuck Fear with Christine Spratley

In this episode of 'Fuck Fear with Christine Spratley,' Christine dives into the challenges of overcoming the 'advice monster' and the importance of truly listening in relationships and coaching. She shares insights from Michael Bungay Stanier's TED Talk, emphasizing the significance of asking questions and letting others be the heroes of their own stories. This episode is the second in a five-part series on the LUVE framework—Listen, Understand, Validate, Empathize—and today's focus is on the letter L: Listen. Tune in to learn how to shut up, listen, and empower others through genuine understanding.

00:00 Introduction and Immunity Shots
02:56 Series Overview: LUVE Framework
03:29 Deep Dive into Listening
04:00 The Advice Monster 
13:44 The Three Personas of Advice Giving
16:56 Empowering Through Listening
21:07 Taming the Advice Monster
24:15 Understanding Fast, Wrong Answers
25:09 The Power of Presence and Empathy
25:49 Asking the Right Questions
26:25 The Importance of 'And What Else?'
26:37 Real Challenges and Multiple Perspectives
29:19 The Role of Negotiation and Trust
32:37 Self-Reflection and Personal Challenges
35:14 Determining What You Want
36:35 Willingness to Act
40:45 Empowering Others and Self-Discovery
51:12 Final Thoughts and Conclusion

Watch "How to Tame Your Advice Monster | Michael Bungay Stanier | TED"

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gVTwb3ebAI

Creators and Guests

Host

Christine (HBIC) Spratley

Dynamic Public Speaker | Change Catalyst | Career Navigation Coach

What is F*ck Fear with Christine Spratley: Living Like a Head Bitch In Charge ?

This podcast is for anyone who wants to live like an HBIC—or lives with, works with, marries, dates, or is raising one. Let’s be real: being a Head Bitch in Charge is messy, bold, and unapologetically badass. This is not a guidebook—it’s a pantry.

My guests and I will share the ingredients that we use—what’s worked and what’s failed—as we say “fuck fear” and take action to live a fulfilled life. We cover real-life hacks and deep philosophical pillars to navigate the chaos of everyday life—where some days, my only accomplishment is having a bra on and my teeth brushed.

We’re tackling the daily shit women navigate, from workplace politics to relationships, raising kids, and building careers, all with humor, audacity, and zero filters.

So, tune in—tell your friends, and even your enemies. This isn’t about aging with grace—it’s about aging with mischief, audacity, and a damn good story to tell.

35 F Fear
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[00:00:00]

Christine Spratley: Tubs. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Fuck Fear with Christine Spratley, living like a head bitch in charge. And for once I am not off kilter. Well, I will say I'm the only, not the only one off kilter this morning.

This is our third take on this intro, but we have got this shit together, so, um, and to help us get together. [00:01:00] We have shots today, but. We have our immunity shot, which we always do, or we have a Dr. Feel good shot. Dr. Phil? Yeah. That's not even close to it. You didn't even know it was Guns N Roses, dude. You were like Van Halen.

Vong. Okay, so what are you gonna do?

Joe Woolworth: I'm doing the immunity that I always call immortality, and I never explained it. It's because they hand write it and it kind of just looks like immortality on the limb.

Christine Spratley: Yeah. Well, nobody really gives a shit why you call it immortality, but it was just burning. Okay.

So

Joe Woolworth: everybody was wondering they couldn't continue. All right, I'm

Christine Spratley: really torn. You're gonna do the immunity? I'll do the immunity 'cause I know it's tried and true and it's really good and I'm a creature of havoc. Okay, you ready? Hold on, Uhhuh. Ready? 1, 2, 3, go. Mm. Ooh. Ooh. That was, that was got little pepper in it.

Joe Woolworth: Very peppery. I tried to do it like Norm on Cheers. You know, where you just open the gullet, but it was bad with all that pepper.

Christine Spratley: Yeah, I do too. Are you doing the other one too?

Joe Woolworth: [00:02:00] Oh, I was shaking it. I thought we were

Christine Spratley: you, you are. You we're doing it in

Joe Woolworth: honor of Norm. He passed away. You know George Floyd? I

Christine Spratley: did.

I saw that. Okay, wait a minute, but what if this tastes like shit? It's, I like the other one better. Okay. All right. You ready? Dr. Feel good? Ready? Yeah.

Joe Woolworth: Here we go.

Okay.

Christine Spratley: Oh,

Joe Woolworth: stuff's happening.

Christine Spratley: That's a lot of stimuli.

Joe Woolworth: Still. Still getting, it's still happening. Still getting burner.

Christine Spratley: What the fuck is in that? That's got ginger in it.

Joe Woolworth: Something spicy. Yeah, the ginger for sure.

Christine Spratley: Okay. All right. I gotta stop.

Joe Woolworth: Podcast.

Christine Spratley: We're gonna get to go guys. We're gonna get this going. Um.

Actually, Ooh hoo hoo. I am alive and kicking this morning. Okay. Like I said, this is fuck fear with Christine Spratley. We are ready to roll. Today is our second in a series of five. [00:03:00] Um, and it's the whole love LUVE and, um, listen, understand, validate, and empathize, and it's a different way to approach. Your relationships and how you do those relationships and how you communicate.

And I think if you haven't listened to the beginning part of, or first in the series, then go back and listen to it. Shame on you. Um, 'cause I'm not gonna bring you up to speed but what I'm gonna do is we went through the whole kind of LUVE in the previous episode, and today we're gonna take the letter L, which is for listen.

And so today is really about how to shut, shut yourself up and listen how to shut up and listen. And this particular. My mouth, my throat is still burning by the way. You want me to get you water or you? No, I've got, I got my alcoholic sized drink here. I'm good with [00:04:00] it. Um, but it it, it's funny 'cause when I really think of listening, um, I really, what immediately came to mind was, and I mentioned this in the episode previous, was the advice monster.

From Michael bge Ste, his TED Talk, and I was exposed to that when I did my coaching training back, back 2022, I think it was, 21, something like that. Um, and it was really incredible to me because as coaches we're taught and, and you're, you're not about giving advice. That's not what you're supposed to do.

You're supposed to help them through, you know, to kind of them solve their own problems and then follow their life. And you can use frameworks in this or that, but you're, you're not just out there giving advice [00:05:00] And yeah, coaching is, that's kind of the theory of it. Um, I think every coach is a little different.

Some people just look at you and go, no, I want advice. And so you may put different hats on, but this really helped me in two areas. One, it helped me shut the fuck up. Um, and two, it helped me because I was trying to figure out how in the hell am I gonna be curious? Like, how are you going to be curious? So if you ha if we will put the link to this YouTube video.

If you just, if if it's not can't find or whatever, or you're driving and you wanna immediately listen to it, just go to advice monsters. I think if you type in advice monsters at YouTube, it'll come up and it's a Ted Talk. I think it was done 2020 or something like that. But this is where I, what I really love about it is that he talks [00:06:00] about a.

Incident, not an incident, but a meeting with a buddy of his, a friend of his, a lady friend of his, and she said, I need your help. I need your advice. And immediately the advice monster I. Just was like, yay. Oh, goodie, goodie, goodie. Um, and what's so funny is that the way that I like about him framing this is it's about taking old habits and making new ones.

When I was working at Deloitte, I used it, um, in managing up and managing down. I used it in my relationships. I try to use it in my relationships, I should say a lot more than I used to, um, because it's, it's more advantageous than I realized.

But the problem that I have, and I think we talked about it when we taped the episode the other day, was we. We want to give [00:07:00] advice, which is often asked for, or sometimes it's not. Um, but when our default response to listening is to give advice, it becomes a default response. Um, and advising becomes the habit.

And again, I love to look at my habits. What am I doing? Why am I doing those? And the reason why that becomes a problem, and he goes into this, is, first of all for me, and I know this, this is my kryptonite to my superpower. I've said many times that I can swat a room. I can go in and swat a room, swat analysis room, swat analysis, you know, just the lay of the land.

But my kryptonite is when I think I have all the information to make that analysis. And to make that judgment and to render my decision. And so typically, when I am flipping on my advice mode and I'm not listening to you, I've [00:08:00] already assessed what the problem is. I mean, that could take 10 seconds if that.

Usually I come prepared, you know? And so, but it's typically the wrong problem or it's not the real problem, it's the surface problem. And I've learned that in coaching. Um. A lot more is, it takes a while for, for people to identify the problem. And I can remember this in business where we would spend, you know, a good portion of the time solving the wrong problem because we thought, we knew, we didn't explore what is the problem.

So that's the first thing is typically my advice that I'm trying to solve and give you advice on is not the real problem or the real challenge. Okay. Second thing, and this was hard for me to hear and it's still hard for me to swallow and really take in, is my advice is nearly that good as I think it's.[00:09:00]

You know, I think I have earth shattering news and, um, you know, interrupt this station. You know, this normal programming for earth shattering news, and it's not like that. Um, and what is great about Michael's talk is he has you catch that little thing, that little clip in there. It says it's not, your advice is nearly not, your advice is not nearly as good as you think it is.

Especially if you think it's good.

Joe Woolworth: Did you catch that? I mean, it makes a lot of sense because

Christine Spratley: I was like, fuck you. You know? I was like, okay. Yeah, yeah. But then, but, and, um, so if you had a reaction to, but my advice was really good, you may wanna just you know, marinate on that for a while. And then the third one, the third problem with not listening to understand, but listening to give advice or to listening to solve the problems that they have immediately, [00:10:00] is that I'm giving them message to them that they're not ca, they're not capable.

And this is something I think we talked about in our, in the episode, is you wanna get to the technical solution, but is that really the message you want to send? Is that really the issue that they want? Is that, and for me. I had to realize, I, I realized this a lot with, in my relationship. He would come at it from a very technical aspect.

My, my ex-husband would, and it would just constantly feel like, well, I can get there. Just let me swim. I can get there. Let me, let me get this out and let me noodle it around. But in business, this is so incredibly important and I can tell there, there are certain partners. That I would work with who would come in and just immediately blurt out, this is what you gotta do, blah, blah, blah.

And [00:11:00] it's so easy to do because we're time is money and we're short on this and we don't have, I don't have time for this shit. I, you know, let me just give you the answer. But it's so amazing when. You actually learn something like when I learn something and whether my colleagues learn something or my team member learn something, or think about it this way.

If you're listening and you have children, when they actually learn something, then they can do it. I can do it myself. You know? They actually learn it. Then you, when they, I remember when the kid, when Brady would get up and put, do the Eggo waffles in the waffle or in the toaster. I was like, ho, ho, ho. I do not need to help that kid do anything in the morning.

I can, you know, we can sleep in and, and, um, now that's a very small thing, but again, it gives the confidence. So if I am undercutting that by preempting, even if, you know, magically I do get the right problem to solve and [00:12:00] my advice is good, I haven't, I haven't had them think for themselves at all. And so I'm curious, um, what you thought of, of those kind of.

Foundational it. Foundational reasoning behind why it is important to listen, to understand and not to advise.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah, it was actually, it reminded me of, I don't remember where, it's kind of a generalized thing and I can't remember who did it first, but I've always heard you gotta ask like seven times to get to the real answer, you know?

Yes. Somebody, Hey, what's wrong? And then they might give you an answer and they're like. You gotta keep asking to get to the actual thing. Mm-hmm. Because a lot of times we mask, we, we don't really wanna talk about what the real issue is, or we don't know. Or we don't know, or we think it's one thing, but it might actually be another thing.

Mm-hmm. Um, and it was interesting when I was trying to find out who came up with those seven questions, he actually, in his book, gives seven questions for coaches, um, yeah. To kind of help. Get through that. So, I mean, it's, it's something that's been [00:13:00] on my mind, but I love the way that he articulated it and made it very memorable.

Christine Spratley: I, I love it because he's sarcastic in it and, you know, I just, I just love the delivery of it. It's, it's very, um, appealing to me. It's not his, his TED Talk is not some therapeutic soul searching. It's just real life. There it is. And, um, and so anyway, so that's, that's the problem. I think we can all agree that we might have a problem with listening to, um, listen to understand versus advice, you know, just turning advice into a habit.

But I thought I was also, and this is some truth telling here, Joe. Um, the three personas that he has, the reason behind kind of when we're giving advice or which pre three personas we have, um, and where's it coming from. And I, I'm a mixture of, of, of them. But I have [00:14:00] one that stands out and the first one, and listeners again, go listen to this, but I'll tell you what the three percenters are.

Li The first one is if you are giving advice, you're giving advice to tell. Um, from the standpoint is I only add value if I have all the answers. I only add value to this conversation, to you being here. Um, if I have all the answers, and if I don't have all the answers, then I fail and you fail and your problem won't be solved and holy shit, the world's gonna come down.

I have to tell you. That is very, that is, therefore it is mandatory that I tell you. Okay, that's, that's persona number one, two, save it. Um, the saving mode. I'm gonna save it. I'm gonna save you. I'm going to rescue. I have to tell you my advice because my only job is to rescue you from this situation, um, or save you.

Um, and if I don't do that, then everyone [00:15:00] fails. And, um, you know, I, I, we'll go into Lee's a little bit more, but, um, I mean, typical example is, is a parent. You know, or, you know, um, I also, I, I've, I've done this in relationships, old relations. I'm gonna save his ass, you know, I'm gonna change that man, you know, be the one.

And, um, yeah. Right. And the third persona is control it. Maintaining control at all times. If I don't have control, it fails. You fail, it fails. Whatever's going on, it, it, it's gonna be out of fricking control. And sometimes I think this is really hard for people to admit to this one. Um, so I'm curious which one for you when you heard those three in that video yesterday and kind of going over 'em today?

I'm a mixture of all three, but there's, there's one that, [00:16:00] that, um. Is really stands out which one is yours?

Joe Woolworth: I think I've been guilty of all three, but the one that stands out to me is probably Save it.

Christine Spratley: Yeah,

Joe Woolworth: yeah,

Christine Spratley: yeah. I'm a, I'm a tell it with a strong undertone of control because part of my tell it is I have to have all the answers so I can control the situation.

So I can figure it out so we can, you know, so, 'cause that's part of, part of that comes from my upbringing and, and just what I was, you know, when I ran away, you really had to find all the answers. So now it's like to every situation there has to be a solution. Um, but it, I've, I've spent time in all three of them.

So I'm curious to our listeners, which, which one are you? And I'm hitting the high topics here, the high notes here. So I encourage you to listen to his Ted Talk. Um, so I think [00:17:00] the main thing though, and I, you've heard me say this on my podcast, is that you are enough when I go and I am giving advice, solicited or unsolicited and.

Way. And I get into that loop of, oh, I'm listening, but I'm not listening. I'm fake listening. Hey. And he gives a good example of fake listening. I really liked his, you know, turn, nod, the head turn, you know, like we do with the kids. Really? Yeah. Really?

Joe Woolworth: Oh, tell me more about the dream where you were riding a unicorn.

Yes. Yeah,

Christine Spratley: yeah, yeah. Tell me more about that. How'd you feel, you know? Um, but when we're doing that, when I'm doing that. I am telling the other person that they're not enough, um, that you are better than them, um, or that I am better than them. That they aren't capable of figuring it out. They're not up to the task, that they're not moral [00:18:00] enough, fast enough, and he goes through a list of these experienced enough.

I am diminishing their confidence and their capability. And this was a kind of an interesting thought for me. It was an interesting perspective for me to take on and go, Ooh, this is the, this is not what I think I'm giving when I'm giving advice. This is the exact opposite. I think I'm empowering and, but, but oh, I'm actually, and you may ask for that.

And, and, and we will go on to kind of, well, do you never give advice and all that stuff. And now that there's no nevers in this podcast ever. Ever, ever, ever.

Joe Woolworth: There's never nevers, there's never nevers

Christine Spratley: in here. Um, but it is interesting when you approach it from that standpoint is, um, when I am telling you that, I'm saying you're not able to get there on your own and.

I am also saying that because I'm not asking you, I'm not saying Here, let's walk beside each other and we'll go there together. You lead and [00:19:00] I'll, you know, I'll go there with you. I'm empowering you. I'm here to support you. Um, I'm telling. And the other part of that is I'm also diminishing myself, and this was something I kind of spent some time with yesterday.

'cause I hadn't really thought about this before in any sort of the depth. Um, but he talks about it. You lose your connection to humanity, your vulnerability and your empathy when all you have is you're giving your advice and you're just giving all of these answers. Because advice is really, comes down to me, is, is, is an answer, is an answer to a problem, to a question, to a challenge.

And there's this line, he says in there, your answers become your armor. Which, 'cause I was like, at first I was saying, well, how do I diminish my humanity? You know, how do I [00:20:00] diminish myself? How do I lose connection with my humanity? But if I am putting on my armor and keeping everybody out, my vulnerability, my empathy, you know, all of those things that make us human, then it really does diminish me.

I. Then it really does take away from all the other aspects that make me up of, I have questions, I have concerns, I don't know shit. You know, all of these things, all of this vulnerability, which makes me relate to you as a human being, which is so much more important than advice. Um, so I don't know. I think those are, when I approach conversations nowadays, I.

I don't always do this. I would be the first to admit, my friends will tell you I'm the first. They'll be like, yeah, listen to her. Yap. Um, but I do try to sit there and go, okay, why are you talking, why is your mouth doing this? [00:21:00] So when I get like that, I love how he presents the problem and then he gives us, um.

The how to tame it, how to tame your advice monster. And as a coach, you're always asking questions and it's so hard to come up with good, solid questions. But the good solid questions and the most thought provoking ones are typically the simplest, are the most open-ended questions. And he has this line in here that I love.

Questions are the kindling of curiosity. Questions are the kindling of curiosity, and you've heard me talk about this before about fulfillment is when I started shutting stuff down in my world because I didn't wanna face that I was not fulfilled. I was not happy. I [00:22:00] lost my curiosity because I didn't wanna ask any questions.

I don't wanna go there. I don't wanna know. I don't want to have a discussion and explore. And again, for me, if I'm shutting down part, I shut down all. Eventually, may not be right away, but I, I, I eventually go surface across the board. Um, so I love that. Questions are the kindling of curiosity. And um, so he gives us three questions.

And the first one is when someone says, you know, you, you know, gimme advice, or you, you can start by saying, you can start by saying, what's the real challenge here for you? And we just kind of talked about that earlier, Joe is, you know, takes seven times to ask the question or, or to get to the root. And, and I do this a lot when I'm.

Have a client coming on and we're [00:23:00] starting a session. It's like, okay, we're in this session today. What's, what's, where's the real challenge for you today with what we wanna talk about? And we kind of go there and go there. And the thought behind that in which he explores is it reframes, um, um, it from either getting data.

You know, so I can then solve your problem, which I typically do. Tell me more about that so I can really solve your problem. Um, two, which is not about them, it's about me getting more information so I can solve it. Um, he reframes that to the most important thing becomes how can I do, what can I do to help you find what's really the issue for you?

So if I'm listening to this person, I have gone and instead of in my mind going, okay, I need more data, I need more information so I can render my analysis [00:24:00] and give you your advice because you so desperately are on edge to get, um, it reframes it in saying, okay, no, you're the most important thing here.

And it's really the important thing is to find the issue that you have. Like, let's define that issue for you. Like what is it, what's going on with you? And. It is not 'cause he is reframing that from that perspective, which is where you want to be from where I typically go to, which is gimme more data. So I can provide you a fast, wrong answer.

And those are his words. Fast, wrong answer. And I don't know where you're at today. I don't know where you're listening to this, but think of in the last 48 hours, how many fast wrong answers you've come up with. Okay. And then for me, the, the sec second part of that was how many fast wrong answers actually went out my mouth [00:25:00] because boy, I come up with a lot of those sons of bitches.

I mean, I do, those are just floating around. Those are like freebies. Um, but again, it reframe, it reframes that and says, okay, it's not about, it slows me down, says, wait a minute, trigger, you know, and puts the emphasis back on them of, okay, what is the most important issue for you? And I think that's really incredible when you're able to do that, because that is me giving them my presence, which is one of the most powerful things I can give somebody.

Is the presence of being there. And as they go through something we talked about on the empathy part of that love LUVE. So that's the first question. The second question is, I have a follow up on that is, and what else, and this is so hard for me to ask 'cause I'm [00:26:00] like a kid and I wanna touch it. I wanna, I wanna add a word here or, and what else do you wanna say about this?

You know, I wanna lead them, I, I can kind of get into trouble with this, with my clients sometimes, is I want to guide them, you know, you're leading the witness and I want to guide them by adding and what else do you think about this? Or, tell me more about that. No, no, no. I need to just throw and what else out there, because what's gonna happen.

Is that allows them to go where it needs to go for them, not where I think they need to be. And this also goes back to, what's your real challenge here? Well, this is what they thought it was. But again, when I'm listening and they're talking, it's kind of like we work that out. We get down and they may ask themselves again.

It's basically the same thing. What's your role challenge? What's your role challenge here? Well, and what else is, what's your role challenge here? And I [00:27:00] may come up with two or three challenges that are really real rather than just one. And they may, like when I'm talking to somebody, I may go, wow, I didn't realize that was what was going on.

But they may do that and that's where you start to get the meat of it. And then again, I think what is really important for me. And what I really value in my friendships is that when someone asks me this, it is an invitation to allow me to get what's in my head, gives me space to get what's in my head and what's been swirling around, and swirling around, swirling around, out.

And verbally come out, and I don't know if this has happened to you, Joe, but I know it's happened to me. It's happened both on the receiving end and then also me on the verbal end where [00:28:00] you talk with somebody and you ask them and what else? Or you ask them a similar question, and next thing you know, they've told you way more than, or I've said way more than I've shared with you, way more than I thought I was gonna share.

Where Yeah, you can, you can chime in.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah. I mean, when somebody asks me I'm, I'm way over. Sure. They'll ask me a question. I'm just like, here's everything. You're, you're an open book. Yeah. And especially certain people. Mm-hmm. Like there's this one guy, his name's Donnie, and just the way he asks a question, I'm like, cool, here's everything going on.

Like when some people ask you like, what's up? You're like, yeah, it's good. Yeah. And then some people ask you, it's like, well, let me tell you. Yeah. Yeah. He just has that kind of face.

[00:29:00] I started doing this in negotiations and, and it was framed a little different. It wasn't framed differently.

Christine Spratley: I used sometimes different words, um, but I would say, and what else? And it was amazing because part of in negotiations, you wanna find out what the hell they really fucking care about. Like, let's just, let's you know, 'cause no one wants to cut to the chase. You always add layers and layers and layers so you can take off and take off and take off.

And then you get down to the nuts and bolts about what's important and um, but you start to develop this rapport and this trust, like you were saying with your friend Donnie, [00:30:00] that all of a sudden you're sharing. And I did a couple things. Um, I would do it in negotiation, but I would do it before. I would do it before, and I would use this question a lot of times they'd tell me about, you know, just making small talk, which is so hard to do when you're getting ready to go into some, what everybody knows is a negotiation, you know?

And and I don't know if any negotiations are, are nice to me, they're all somewhat hostile. 'cause you, you know, you're coming out with not a hundred percent of what you want. Um, sometimes you come out with 150, um. But I would, but it would be interesting because it would give me some insights into this person and what else.

But I think what is so amazing to this is that this question allows them to have it all come out of their head. And again, it puts the pause on me. [00:31:00] It puts the pause on me to shut up. And it doesn't say, Hey, you're on a clock here. Or, only tell me what else about this, this, and this. It's like, all right, I'm gonna meander through whatever cornfield.

'cause I grew up in cornfields, you know, that you need to meander through until we get where you need to go. Um, and I've sometimes started a little game in my own head, um, where I'll be like, I think this is where they're going, but then I'll be like, oh no, it's not. Out at second base, you know, slid in head first.

Nope. Wrong direction. And, um, anyway, so I think that's really cool. And then the, the last one is, and, and in his, I, I really want people to listen to him 'cause I'm not gonna do it today. I thought about doing this, but I just, I would've taken it away, you know, where he does the exercise.

Joe Woolworth: Um, I, I might, I don't really remember that part.

Christine Spratley: Okay. It's [00:32:00] where he goes through the questions and he has the audience do the exercise. Okay. Or he says, okay, think of something. Well, we'll just do it. So you're listening to this. I want the audience to think of. Because there's a third question, but the first two, you've heard the first ones. So I want you, the listeners, wherever you're at, think of, think of an issue, think of a challenge you've got, think of something that's going on in your life.

You might want advice from about, you know, something, something's an issue. All right. Could be big, could be small, could be work, could be your relationship. Could be the damn kids in the back of your car right now, you know, could whatever it is. All right. Okay. All right. What's the real challenge here for you?

Think about that. What is the real challenge here for you? Okay. Joe, do you have, do you have something in your head? Yep. Okay. All right. You're thinking about what that challenge is for you? Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. And what else? What else? Because there's probably more than one challenge with it, [00:33:00] probably a different aspect to it that you're not thinking of.

So, well, what else is there and what else? And again, I think for me, when I do that again, it's like, and there's more information. There's more information. Okay. And now the audience wants you to think about this. So we've, now that you've considered all that you've had to consider about this challenge and, and, and everything else, okay.

Now what is the real challenge for you on this issue? You know, and was your first answer to that real challenge, to that first question, the same as it was this time? Or is it tweaked? Has it been added? Has it been, you know, have you subtracted? Did you edit out? Did you edit in and.

I, I don't know. But [00:34:00] for me, when I, when he first did that, and maybe for you Joe, maybe not, but it literally, 'cause I did it, I did it with him. I thought of a challenge. I thought of an issue in my, in my, I was struggling with, and I was like, okay. And then it was like, and my first one was not it. So if I'm giving advice off of the first thing I hear.

Or the first, you know, challenge that I, that I hear you tell me again. I'm solving the wrong problem. I'm, I, I mean, that's assuming my advice is even half fast, decent to begin with, but it's the wrong answer because it's the wrong question. So what was your challenge? To begin with, where else did you go with that and where did you end up?

And again, you can do that a lot [00:35:00] with people and just keep going around with that. But it gives them space until you'll end up in a space with them. And this is where you listen and understand. And then the third question,

what do you want? I think this is really important, and he talks about it being important. I. In the fact that it is the springboard for your action. Once you have your challenge, your real challenge, what do you want? Do you want to, you know, if it's in business, do you want to, you know, resolve this, add this?

If it's in a relationship, is it I feel this way, I really want to be. More secure in this relationship. Okay. Whatever it is, it is going to tell me what my actions need to be in order to get that, or it's gonna help me. It won't [00:36:00] tell me necessarily, but it's gonna help me understand and evaluate what actions, gimme what I want.

It's very grounding, but I can sit here and say all these things that I want. Again, it can tell you, this is what I want. But if I don't know my real challenge and I haven't explored it, no, I'm not sure that's the word I want

now, of course. 'cause I like to make my own cake. I, I do this in coaching, right after that question, I ask, what are you willing to do? Don't ask what you're going to do. I said, what are you willing to do? Because being, you know, and I don't ask what you should do to get what you want, what are you willing to do?

Because to me that's very important. [00:37:00] What am I willing to do? And as a friend, I've noticed when I have these conversations with people and we actually go down this road, um. You know, what do you want? Okay. What are you willing to do to get it? Because there's things that in my life I've wanted, but I didn't want 'em bad enough to do anything about 'em yet, or I thought I wanted, but I didn't wanna do anything about him.

And so therefore, it told me a lot about whether or not my issue, my challenge, my real challenge was gonna be resolved.

And again, this is nothing to do with me solving a problem and giving advice. This is everything to do [00:38:00] with them and with the person on the other end and, and going, okay, well. All right, you. You know your issue. You know your challenge. You know what you want and you know what you're willing to do to get what you want to do, what you want, to get the written result to resolve the problem, or you know what you are not willing to do.

And then I don't know that my advice is so needed,

you know, because. They kind of got it. I mean, I can sit here and go, yeah, you should do this, this, this, and this, and they could go, but if they're not, they don't want it that bad or they're not willing to do it. P you know, and especially, I mean, I sit here and say they, if I'm not, I mean, people have given me great advice all the time.

I mean, why do you think there's so many self-help books and [00:39:00] you know, this is. You could probably look this up on, on chat, Joe, but like the industry is just billions and billions of dollars, you know? Well, if we all took the advice and we all did it and we were all willing to do it, I mean, it's not like all of this is new.

Like you said, you'd heard this stuff before, but am I willing to do it and am I willing to do. Whatever it is that I need to do in order to get what I want to resolve my challenge, and I think when I'm listening to someone, the, the thing that I have to remember or that I get to remember, I don't have to do shit, but I choose to try and remember, is that they are coming with their whole life experiences.

And so whatever, you know. Insecurities boundaries, [00:40:00] blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever, you know, or in business, whatever lack of exposure of experience that they're coming to the table with, it may take them longer to get there to identify the real issue. It may, you know, whatever. And, and they may not be willing to do it.

You know, when the real issue is that we have to file, um, by tomorrow and it's gonna take us working all night, they may be like, I don't think I'm up for that shit. Okay. They may not want that job. And I do that in my, in my coaching when I, when we're talking about jobs and, and people are looking at getting different jobs and then we just, we kind of walk this through, well, are you willing to do that?

What is your challenge here?

I just, this to me is in that first, in the letter L for love, LUVE, the letter L. This really helped me understand and give me perspective [00:41:00] on how I show up in a very real way. That is,

at best an ass. When I'm just giving advice and I'm in that advice loop, you know, but it gives me an opportunity to show up in a very different way, a very human way, a very real way that is productive and empowering because again, it, it allows the other person to, to be confident and to, you know, get, get their.

Frame of thought and process down. And then also to me when I ask that final one is, what are you willing to do? They don't always have to answer it to me, but they at least answer it to themselves. And I know when I'm in my [00:42:00] head going, eh, I ain't gonna do that. It sounds really great. Then I, then it begs the question of, well then do I really want it?

And do I really want it? Whatever it is, and will that resolve the, the issue here? So I just, I don't know. I think for me, this is such a fun way to tackle something that could be really, really hard. Whether it be your male female conversations, and he even talks about this, which I thought was good. He says, it's not just man mansplaining.

I mean, we all have this, we all have advice, monsters and I, I don't know that there's not one of us because if you think about the three per personas, we all come with that shit. I need to tell you so I can have all the answers I need to save you or I need to control it. You know, can't just let it be.

[00:43:00] Listen for listening's sake. And that is, you know, I, I just got back from, from Spain and one of the guys there was, was Max. And Max was probably the most laid back dude I ever met. And I'd ask him something or I'd say, what do you, what do you think about that? And he just would be like, yeah. It'd take him like seven, eight minutes.

'cause I was timing that month. I was timing him and he'd just be like, oh, you know, and, and it would be like, it would, but it would be a real thought out thing. But it wouldn't be it. And then he would end up with a question right back at me. And it's one of those things where, you know, by the end of the time that I had there, it was one of the most enriching conversations.

I'd love to go to speak with Max. 'cause he would, we would have these really con. I say we would have these conversations. I would end up having a conversation with myself and he would [00:44:00] be coaching without even me knowing it. And, and that was, and I'd walk away with these aha moments in my head. But it is so much more rewarding when.

I enlighten myself to my own darkness and to my own answers, um, based on the world around me than if you tell them to me. I mean, we've all had, you know, learn from do as, you know, learn from other people's mistakes. We do to a degree worry, but there is this innate part of me that that needs to feel it in my bones.

I always say this, and Joe, you and I are come from different backgrounds with religion and stuff, but I always used to, um, say I bless people. And to me, blessing means enlightenment. So [00:45:00] there's, there's, there's plenty of times when I've blessed my enemies. I are like, please God bless them with enlightenment, light news, um, those people.

And, um, but I also ask to be blessed as well. And part of doing this and listening to understand, instead of to respond or to give advice, or to critique or to do anything, is to let them. Be who they are and be the human that they are. And you in turn get to be the human that you are and just experience it with them.

And I know people are gonna, 'cause I did when I was like, ah, business, I ain't got time for this shit. Ah, you know, my husband, I need just, he needs to, he needs to know. Or you know, if she just do you know the kids? Oh my gosh. But. I think about [00:46:00] this in business, it is so much more important that they get it because when you're not around to give them the next answer, they're gonna know it and they're gonna take it and they're gonna be able to do it.

We all know margin is based off of efficiency. Run on an efficiency is doing it right the first time, or you know, as few times as possible. And. Or redoing it as few as times as possible. And so it's like, yeah, that's it. When, when the light bulb goes on, when go goes on in their heads versus yours, and there's nothing about me that allows me to pull a switch and go, yes, it's on in their head.

And, and yes, it was on in their head and by God they're gonna remember it that way forever. Um, but it just allows me to be there and listen. And sometimes I need to ask these questions of myself and have that same approach when I'm [00:47:00] trying to give myself my advice or my inner critic or all that shit that goes on and on and on and on and on my head.

You know, just what, okay, what's the challenge here? What do I think it is? Okay, and what else? Okay. Now, based on everything that you know and all that you've thought about and all the wisdom that you've brought along and all your experiences, Christine, what's the real challenge here for me? Okay, that's the challenge.

Okay. What do you want? What do you want to do? Okay, Christine, what are you willing to do?

So if you don't have anyone in your life to practice this on, you can practice it on yourself. But I, I think you do. And I think it'd be a good way for, for you to start trying to just participate in someone's life differently and show up differently. And, um, [00:48:00] I don't know, Joe,

Joe Woolworth: what'd you think of it? I think it makes a lot of sense.

I mean, there's some other caveats that. Or just I guess, chunks of things I've learned that really lines up with it, like mm-hmm. Most people are only intrinsically motivated when it comes to actually doing something. Mm-hmm. And this really supports that approach. 'cause it's not. It's not the idea that, oh, they should do what I think they should do or they, to get the outcome that I think they should have.

It really helps people uncover what it is they actually want, which is the only thing that's really gonna motivate them. Motivate them, yes. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And then the other thing I think is, 'cause I'm a big, I'm big into storytelling and the art of storytelling, and I think that it's worth noting that.

When, when we listen to our advice monster, we're positioning ourselves as the hero of the story. Instead of letting the person be the hero of their story, and they're the hero of their story. You know,

Christine Spratley: I, I couldn't agree with you more. I literally have on my, on my, [00:49:00] um, I read a, a book. I was a self-help book, and I was like, gonna read it.

And, um, I read it and it was good, but then it was,

if I'm really honest. She was like, you should, did that have sex with your husband? 365 days of the year? Like for a full year? I was like, fuck this book. That ain't happening, hun. No way. Not in a row. Um, but but what I did take out of that book from the up to the point that I had read was, um, to be the hero of your own story, and I have it.

On my, on my wall, it's handwritten. It says I'm the hero of my own story. And that is the thing is, I am not here to undermine you, nor am I here to undermine myself or diminish you, or diminish myself. You are enough, and by allowing you to be [00:50:00] enough, I am allowing you the space to figure it out, to figure out what, what, what it is, what it is.

And then to figure out what you wanna do about it and what you're willing to do about it, you know? But I think what's so amazing, if I really wanna look at this, all heroes have a supporting cast. I mean, think about the supporting cast that have really showed up and allowed us to be the hero in our own story.

You hear me talk about my tribe all the time, my mugshot crew, you know, so there's nothing wrong with me being a supporting cast member and your story, and, and I think, I think you're exactly right. They're meant to be the heroes of their own story, and so am I. And that's the whole premise of living like a head bitch in charge.

I am [00:51:00] responsible for me. I'm not responsible for you. That means your answers, your que like, nah.

And if I really wanna live that, then this is, I think this goes to that. So this is the first in a series, so I hope you like it. If not, hey, come back tomorrow. We, we will have a different shot. Um, but we're only gonna do one. And I think I'm gonna stick with immunity. But Dr. Feelgood shit was, was not Dr.

Feelgood. Um, but until then, ladies, gentlemen, thank you for your time. Thank you for some of your attention. And until next time, tubs.

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