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It’s a killer Nutcracker! In the winter finale of Elsbeth, a bold reimagining of the classic ballet turns bloody—literally. When controversial director Donovan Chase ends up crushed inside his own stage contraption, Elsbeth dives into a case full of dance drama, stage parents, and modernist mayhem. Jason and Marissa break down Andrew Rannells’ guest turn, that epic finale reveal, and what’s next for Alec and the mayoral mystery. Plus, a cozy chat about holiday traditions, Fantasia flashbacks, and whether Elsbeth could survive a tutu.
00:12 – Jason and Marissa share holiday vibes & Nutcracker nostalgia
06:45 – Murder at the ballet: Donovan Chase's avant-garde Nutcracker turns deadly
13:50 – Andrew Rannells, stage parents, and a suspicious alibi
25:30 – Elsbeth dances undercover + the real origin of “Orphan Girl”
34:00 – Alec, Teddy & Wagner: The Bloom backstory unravels
If you’re loving our takes on Elsbeth, don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe to The Good Pod! For more behind-the-scenes fun or to support the pod, visit https://buymeacoffee.com/goodpod.
06:45 – Murder at the ballet: Donovan Chase's avant-garde Nutcracker turns deadly
13:50 – Andrew Rannells, stage parents, and a suspicious alibi
25:30 – Elsbeth dances undercover + the real origin of “Orphan Girl”
34:00 – Alec, Teddy & Wagner: The Bloom backstory unravels
If you’re loving our takes on Elsbeth, don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe to The Good Pod! For more behind-the-scenes fun or to support the pod, visit https://buymeacoffee.com/goodpod.
Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Good Pod?
Calling all fans of courtroom intrigue and complex characters! Join us each week as we dive deep into the gripping world of "The Good Wife," "The Good Fight", "Elsbeth," and the entire legal drama universe created by Robert and Michelle King. Jason Reed and Marissa Garza, break down each episode, unpack intricate plot lines, and analyze the moral dilemmas faced by Alicia Florrick, Diane Lockheart, Elsbeth Tascioni, and their colleagues. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to these addictive shows, you'll gain fresh insights and catch details you might have missed.
# Elsbeth S3 E10
[00:00:00]
Welcome to the Good Pod, where today we're talking Elsbeth, season three, episode 10. Hard not to crack. I'm Olivia, your host Jason Reed. And with me, the woman that will be starring in the pen cracker soon to come. Issa Garza Brisa. You good? I am good. Jason, are you good? I'm. Good. I'm glad. That's good to hear.
Yeah. Uh, ha. Happy tidings to all as we Yes. Record this. We are five days out from the Christmas season. Uh, if, if you celebrates, uh, we wish you a, a happy merry Christmas. Uh, if you don't wish you happy holidays, whatever you're celebrating. Festus happy solstice, happy whatever us or non us, Annika, you know, all the, all the things.
All the things. All the like, literally bits and pieces. Yeah. And if you have to make one up this year just to find some joy. I totally understand. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, [00:01:00] from, from, from us to you. Yes. Happy holidays. Um, we are here with ELs Smith. Literally the halfway point. We are literally on our winter break.
Yes. Uh, from this moment forward until February, the end of February was when we will have another Elsworth episode. So, uh, we're gonna be on a bit of a yaasss for, uh, it's, uh, for those that aren't familiar with the, the Big Brother streets. So there's a hiatus, um, uh, until February. But, uh, never fear. You can still hear me and Marissa chop it up about all things Kings 'cause we still have.
The Good Wife coverage going on, we do on the other side of this podcast. So you know, if you can't, if you can't bear to not hear our voices over the break, you got something that you can go to and if you like, are looking for a show to binge. Good Wife is a good one. Good winter break. Binge right there.
Yeah, you can always hop in at any time. We kind of catch you up along the way, so, yeah. Join us. It be fun. I mean, if, if you need your kooky Elsbeth fix, we are like, oh yeah, smack bab in the middle of an Elsbeth like arc. Right now she's, [00:02:00] the episodes we're covering right now, she's in them. So, hey, you got that.
Uh, if you just can't stand to be without Elsbeth, we got, we got some el for you. Elsbeth origins. Exactly, exactly. And like Ellsworth is, I mean, in, in this property, she, she has a lot more range and freedom to be a. A lot kookier than she is on The Good Wife. Like you won't catch her in a ballerina outfit.
Uh, on the, the Good Wife, no. Like she's here. No, but that's there for you if you so choose, uh, uh, if you want to help this podcast out, you can do that in a number of ways. You can review, rate, and subscribe wherever it is you're watching and or listening. That helps us get into the eyes and ears of more people that it would enjoy this kind of content.
If you just wanna. Talk to us about the show, you can just email us at the good pod feedback@gmail.com. Uh, if you just wanna have a convo with us, you can also, uh, if you so choose it is the, it is the gift giving [00:03:00] season. You know, uh, we do have a link over at buy me a coffee.com/good pod. You can choose to donate, uh, whatever it is you feel.
Uh. Is, is in, in your discretionary budget. We love that. We, we be greatly appreciative of that. Um, so yeah, that's all the ways you can give us a little gift this holiday season. You don't even need to spend any money to do it. You can just like the podcast, uh, review rate, all that good stuff you can do for totally free.
And, uh, just help us out, uh, in that way if you, if you can't or don't want to give a monetary uh, amount. Uh, so with that all the way, Marissa, let's get into the episode. Before we like hop into it. Hop into it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'd love to know your connection and or non connection to the, the Nutcracker is The Nutcracker.
How has the nut, what role has the Nutcracker, how has your life changed by having the Nutcracker in your life? Um, none. I [00:04:00] have zero, absolutely zero connection to the Nutcracker, like. I know of the device of a Nutcracker. Uh, I, I don't even have any of those in my house, but I'm aware of them have been in their vicinity before.
Oh, that's, that's the, that's the length of my experience with the Nutcracker in all forms. Um, I. The Nutcracker with Disney's Fantasia because mm-hmm. They animated it. And so every time I listen to the Nutcracker or watch the Nutcracker, I'm always like thinking, not seeing, because I can't see him behind my eyes.
Uh, but thinking of. Like the little mushrooms or the, the snowflakes or the little, like the little montages that happen in that, um, way. And I think like, that was really cool. Like, like the whole part of this entire case is like, it starts off talking about how traditional and boring the Nutcracker is and it needs to be done in this new way.
And I was like, just Fantasia, like you don't have to make it weird and scary. You can just fantasia, I, [00:05:00] I could not. Get into Fantasia when I was a child, I, I think I was just confused of like, what's happening. Maybe now I should go back and try to watch Fantasia. Is that on Disney show? Try it. Yeah.
Probably. Uh, I should, I should try Fantasia 2000 also a little bit more contemporary has Donald Duck in it, as opposed to Mickey Mouse. Okay. I maybe I'll give it a shot. Uh, 'cause I, I think as a kid I just didn't understand like what was going on. I was like, what, what is this? And, and when you just said that, that is, is a like parody or take off of the Nutcracker.
I had no idea, had zero idea. Well, like the whole thing is like Kosky who wrote the Netcracker. It's like, uh, this is what happens in people's minds when they hear music. And I, as a little kid who couldn't see behind my eyes, was like, oh my God, this is so magical. Is this gonna happen to me when I'm older?
Like, I don't know. I, whoa, this is so cool. And so then I would like sit in concert thinking, oh. I'm doing it. This is what I, and I was never seeing it. Like I thought that I was seeing it, but I was never seeing it. So the Fantasia for me is like, [00:06:00] I, it's very impactful because of my neurology, but I get it.
Mm-hmm. It's not everyone else's. Um, but yeah. Yeah. You said, you said every time you watch a Nutcracker, I'm like, every time it means you watch it more than once. You chose to watch it more than once. It was like definitely something like. Substitute teacher plan during the winter break type of thing that would go on at school or like one time my parents did take us to like the community college production of the Nutcracker.
I liked ballet. I was into ballet as a kid too. Like I was, I was one of those, yeah, girls, I'd probably just be bored of tears, I'm sure as a child and as an adult, but hey, to each their own, as I always say. Well, we are, uh, talking about the Nutcracker because in the, in the case, this case has to do with the Nutcracker being talked about and how it's so traditional and it's time for a change.
And we meet this guy named Donovan Chase and he says, it's time for a change. We [00:07:00] can turn this into something new. And this is definitely like. This aesthetic of being like very sparse, very modern, is something that is definitely going through Broadway at the moment. We were just talking pre pod. Well, I was basically talking pre pod.
I was staring at you like, uh huh. Yep. Exactly. Totally. Oh. Um, productions of Sunset Boulevard and Avita have kind of like stripped the scenery of a lot of things and just been really sparse. And I think that's what they were referring to here with Donovan's view. Of the Nutcracker I saw they were like, oh, online.
They were like, oh, they're really trying to take out, take, uh, you know, there's a takeoff of someone named, I think someone's named James Lloyd, I think was what they were saying. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's his name. Yeah. Like, oh, they, they're, they're really coming after that guy. I feel like this is the equivalence to me being like, oh my God, this is a hit piece on Bill Belichick.
Yeah. Pretty much, pretty much a couple episode ago, and now this is like a hit piece on this, this, uh, theater guy who like a commentary. [00:08:00] Yes. Yeah. You kind like a controversial opinion of, I'm like, oh, okay. That, that's kind of like that a appealing to a different audience than what I'm used to. So in the Nutcracker, if you haven't seen the traditional one, it's very, like there's a big Christmas tree and then there's a rat king that comes out and there's a bunch of Nice, and there's this girl Clara, and she is like the star of the entire show.
And her whole thing is like, she gets the Nutcracker for Christmas and then like the Nutcracker saves it from the Rat King. It's like this whole, whole big, see, it sounds interesting. It sounds, this sounds right. Totally fun. Like right. I gotta gotta check it out. Yeah, you gotta check it out. Exactly. A rat king.
Oh my. Exactly. Exactly. Uh, so, uh, this is like something that a lot of people find a lot of comfort in during this, the holidays and everything. And one person in the audience during this Donovan Chase reveal is not too happy about this because he's very. Like all about the traditional production of ballet and he looked very familiar to me.
Jason? [00:09:00] Yeah. Uh, I, Andrew Randalls, who uh, I think probably you'd say, got his big start on, on the Book of Mormon on Broadway. I think that's probably where he. Really broke out unless you have so, and Girls. And Girls. That was, that was after Book of Mormon, right? Or was it, I don't know if it might've been around ish, the same time-ish.
I don't know. That's a, a blur to me, but yeah, like if you aren't a Broadway person, it was Girls. If you are a Broadway person, it was Book of Mor. Yeah. And, uh, me looking up Andrew Randalls, just to be like, okay, I know the big things, but like, uh, he was also in the sitcom, the New normal, which I was really into back, back in.
You know, 20, whatever it was, uh, which is a fun little sitcom about him and, uh, him and his. I think was that the, him and his husband were hi wanted, hired a surrogate, and they all became like one big family or whatever. It was really, really fun sitcom. Uh, but then I looked into him, I'm like in the very, like in the nineties, he was like, he was in all the kid shows.
I wa like, I watched this kid Yugi O Pokemon. I was like, wow. [00:10:00] He had this whole other like career before he broke out as a like an animation guy. I was like, oh my God. Like, and I can definitely see that because he has this kind of, uh. Cadence to his voice and like the tone and temper of his voice will be perfect for, I think like a kid's show.
Classic. Do you know of the other Andrew Reynolds connection to the king verse by proxy? What is it? What is it? Uh, he was in girls five. Eva with Geneva with Ohne. Elise Goldberg. Mm-hmm. Who is Geneva, you know, you're welcome. Little trivia there. Uh, so basically the whole thing with this new Nutcracker is there's gonna be this Nutcracker contraption in the middle, and also there will be no children.
Which, uh, the Nutcracker is like literally the only time there's like 80 children on the stage for a ballet. There's like a bunch of children. And so this is like, what, what? And it's gonna be violent and there's gonna be blood. And like the rest of the ballet board is kind of taking this in and they're like, oh, this could work.[00:11:00]
This is kind of cool. But not, not Andrew Reynolds whose character's name is Harris. Yeah, not Harris because he is like, this isn't true. This is right. And everyone's like, it's because your daughter was gonna be Clara. He's like, it's not because of my daughter, not because of That ends up that Harris is outvoted and he has to go.
To a therapy session following this decision with his husband and his daughter to kind of explain what's going on. And his daughter, Noelle, is not happy about this. Mm-hmm. At all. Yeah. It, we see like, it's, it's definitely not because of my daughter smash cut to his, his daughter, like literally crying at the therapist's office about her not being Clara.
And we all, you know, in this moment we get to meet, uh, Harris's husband who is Rich, who was basically kind of like. Taha is like, you created this problem. You fix it. Like yeah, it's, that's your responsibility, rich, who we see, like it's kind of like. A little bit like cold-ish, so like, you know, not great, not cool.
[00:12:00] Mm-hmm. Uh, so he is like, you, you made this problem, you fix it. And so Harris, uh, it's gonna fix it, it's gonna fix it his own way. And as, as much, as much as our, as much as our, our murderers do not through, uh, normal means, like, say a petition or say like, you know, just, just any other like, normal way you would do things, he decides.
Murder. Yeah. Murder is my way to fix this problem. Like that's, that's my first go-to is murdering another person. I mean, it is America. Um, uh, later, uh, Donovan decides to, uh, test the contraption. This again, just to your point, the picture for the audience, this is like a nutcracker head, just the head. And then like the Nutcracker mouth part, the jaws are up.
And Donovan is not happy with what he's seeing here. He is like, I want more blood, but no nuts. We cannot put any nuts in here 'cause I am allergic. More blood. Yeah. Need more blood. So it's like he, he referenced several times [00:13:00] about no nuts. No nuts, no nuts. I for sure thought for real. Yeah, for real. This was a fake out.
Like he was gonna, like Andrew ran like Harris was gonna like. Sneak some nuts into a salad or something, and that's how it's gonna go. But it went a very, very, uh, different way. Yes, yes. And so Harris is like looking, this is, this is gonna be a catastrophe. He does Spy Keith, who's the technical director on the show, uh, for those of you unfamiliar, it's the person who basically pushes all, makes sure that all the lights and sound effects and all of that stuff goes very hardworking.
Uh, crew members looked this person and he's entering his own password and apparently Keith and Harris had a little bit of a fling. Um, and Donovan or Harris thinks that Keith is still pining for him at this time. I mean, he, he definitely is. He's like, he's like, Hey, how's your mom? Keith? Keith has been like, texting Harris, like, try trying to see if something can happen.
But, uh, Harris is like, uh, [00:14:00] no, I'm, I'm good thanks though. But yeah, he like, he literally like looks over Keith's shoulder to see him entering his pin and seeing how the contraption actually works and how the jaw work. So he is at that point, we're like, oh, okay, I can see where this is going. He's like looking at how he can, uh, mess with the controls.
Yes. Yeah. And like, you know, this is very stressful for Harris, you know, so he's gotta go get some work done on his back. And while he's, apparently, I think it's just like getting an electro, like an electric sort of treatment or something. There's like an electrode out his back, but then he like opens the window, drops out of the window, goes into the rehearsal space, goes under.
The dress of one of, I don't even remember all the characters' names, but one of the big, I think they, they say this characters, uh, something as the ginger King or something like that. Maybe they changed from later in the act, later in the episode. The Ginger King, I don't know, maybe, and sneaks over to the controls and messes with the settings, [00:15:00] and Donovan is in the middle of the contraption.
When Baboom, he killed violently. Violently like violently. This was. I mentioned last episode when we saw the, uh, the model like falling to her death. That, which is like, kind of like, whoa. That was like crazy. This was even more, it was like, oh my God, this is like, like, forget about a, a nut. Like this is like a, you know, you ever had the gushers?
It's a gut cracker. Gut cracker. It is like, it is like a gusher, like a bite into it and just spray goes everywhere. I was like, whoa. That was. Pushing it, I think for network tv. Well, they tried to cover it up because when Grace and El, um, Elsbeth arrive on the scene, they're like, this is all stage blood.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, this is a real blood, uh, network sensors. This is stage blood. Yes. Yeah. And Grace talks about how Donovan Chase had a production called The Orphan Girl, which for those of us in the theater know Orphan Girl Annie. [00:16:00] Production of Annie. Um, and it's very like cutting edge, very avant garde.
Detective Donnelly, detective third watch is here. Yeah, she's here. And Elizabeth asked her about like the operation of the contraption. Yeah. Detective, uh, detective Edwards still missing an action. We're still waiting. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, maybe she's just not part of it anymore, which is. Fine. And okay. I don't, I don't care that much about Detective Edwards.
It's just always beer when someone's missing. But yeah. Uh, grace, who's away from her, uh, who we thought would be her permanent partner, buzz is, is here now with, uh, with Elsbeth and, and Don's like, all right, ladies night, let's go. Uh, the ladies trio. I'm down for it. I'm here for it. Uh, so yeah, like they, you know, Ellsworth does, her Ellsworth thing comes in, is like looking at everything like, how does this work?
How does that work? What does this mean? What does that do? And Keith Lake explains it all and he like Clarissa and basically says that the sensors are facing the wrong way and the safety was turned off. But he's not sure how that happened because it wasn't him. [00:17:00] Meanwhile, Harris comes home to tell, to tell Noelle his daughter, Hey.
We got some good news, like good news. Someone's dead. And now you can do, you can do what you need to do. Like, okay, I did this for you honey. I did this for you. Interesting way to put it. Interesting way to put it. Good news daddy. Murder man. For you, I just, I mean, yeah, I don't, I just, I couldn't. You, you could murder someone for your child, Marissa, correct?
For my non-existent child. For child to be in a play. How dare you? I think I, I think I can speak for all parents out there easily and with no doubt murder someone for their child's, uh, you know, play aspirations. Goodness. Anyway, Donnel Lee and Elsbeth run the case down for Wagner. They say that Keith is their first suspect, her his print.
We're the only ones found on the board, unsurprisingly, because it's his board. But, um, and he was devastated [00:18:00] about the whole situation. Wagner is disgusted with this version of play. This is my favorite thing. 'cause of course, Wagner's into theater. Of course he is. Of course he plays the trombone. Of course he is.
Uh, I'm like one of us, one of us. Uh, Elsbeth also points out that all the kids were unhappy and there were unhappy parents, so they might be something to look at. And, you know, detective third watch, uh, is, is surprisingly on Bush is like, yeah, you're, you're right. Like, we should really look into that. I was like, okay.
All right, detective third watch. Not going with the easiest, uh, at first, not going with the easiest solution of it must be Keith, right? Uh, so I was like, okay, okay. Going with going along with else, but I like it. Well, she also, I think at this point, brings up dance moms. Have you ever watched dance? Yeah. So she has a of reference for this in terms of that.
What? And she and Donly like, kind of conflates, like, actually not even dance moms. Hockey moms. They're crazy. Yeah. Donny's like, I'm a, I, I'm not a girly girl. I'm a, I'm a boy girl. I, I take [00:19:00] my kids to hockey. So, um, Donal Ann Harris and ELLs both go to talk to Harris and he agrees that he did not like the take, but he was outvoted and he like didn't try to do anything about this.
Like he, but he at his heart is a dance dad. So this is noticed. He does ask, or they do ask him for an alibi. Harris says he went to his daughter's school and then a physical therapy. The appointment and Harris used to be a dancer as well. Lemme just talk about this, uh, therapy appointment. I forgot to mention.
He not only jumped out of the window, but then somehow got back up through the window. He was ready for his appointment at that time. So not only was the man at a former dancer, he must have been a former acrobat at this point. Must also be Spider-Man. I guess so, yeah. Because I mean, I don't know how high up this, uh, that he was.
Was he on the first story? Was he on the second story? Is there a gutter he can climb up and down? Who knows? Who really knows? Yeah. And Ellsworth is of course doing her [00:20:00] observer best of like noticing his posture, like also kind of saying like, oh, he's a, he used to be a dancer. I think he, he gets this, like, he gets why this would be a blow to his daughter.
And so I think we're gonna put him on the suspect list. Yeah. I think this is the, this is the moment, right where Ellsworth officially puts Harris in her cross hairs. It's like, all right, well we're gonna look into you and see, uh, see what's happening here. You like, she has her eyes set on and it's, it's again, just kind of her.
Elizabeth Spidey Sense who she, you know, she, she never, she never suspects more than one person, ever. It's always just like you, like I, I, again, uh, just like all the other detectives, I feel like in the precinct, we're just waiting for Elizabeth to be wrong about something or someone, something. Yeah. Yeah.
Would be good. So Elizabeth decides to chase down this lead and goes to the physical therapist's office, and while she's there, she runs into Rob the choreographer apparently. I'm just like, what, what is this for? It does not further a [00:21:00] plot, it does not really do anything. Like last episode we ran into, uh, what was her name?
Ivy or Iris? Mm-hmm. Ivy, I think. Mm-hmm. Who was, so the, in one of the other storylines, Rob, if I remember correctly, was the choreographer in the Keegan Michael Key episode. Yes, correct. And. Eh, beside the fact that it's like, Hey, look at this world we've built, uh, we were just running into people we've met before.
Isn't that fun? I just don't, I don't see what I think the, the, the purpose of it is, this may seem very critical, but I'm just gonna say it. Mm-hmm. I think they're trying to remind us that this is somehow still the same show or connected to the show that it was. I mean, maybe, but I mean, I, I don't think the, I don't think the quality has suffered that much where they have to like, remind you of what the show was.
Um, but I don't know. It just didn't, it doesn't do anything for me. It's just like, okay. Like unless you are getting Rob involved as, as you would have like a Nadine. Right. [00:22:00] Nadine. Nadine is great. Gets involved and actually furthers the plot, actually gives us, gives our characters something to go on. Rob's just kind of like.
Well, Rob does give Elsbet some information. He does say like, Hey, Harris used to be a dancer, but he doesn't dance anymore because he married into money. And so SBE is wondering like if Harris had money. And he got in. Yeah. And Rob mentions like this, this physical therapy's office is great because it works on a sliding scale.
It's not, you know, it's, uh, it's not as expensive as a normal physical therapist. So, and that was just like, huh. So why would a, why would someone of Harris's financial standing be in this physical therapy office? Huh. Interesting. And if he's not dancing anymore, how did he, why is he injured? Right, and he needs come to physical therapy office so that that does get her to think of like, Hmm, interesting.
Yeah. Like, why here? Why not? Is it 'cause it's conveniently located next to a [00:23:00] window that he could drop down and then murder someone maybe, or in the, or in the path of a potential alibi he could get by appearing on a camera of some sort me. The Ellizabeth and Donnelly, um, go, oh, talk about Harris and Keith like talk to Keith about Yeah, well, yeah, they, they go, they go mess.
Ellsworth does her thing to go and goes and messes with Harris, like, tries to poke at the bear and uh, be, and you know, 'cause Elsworth Donnelly did not go with Ellsworth and they meet back up to go harass Harris and Don Lee tells, uh, Sal about, you know, Keith and Harris used to go back out, used to go out in the day and, uh, you know.
And so there was a, there's a, there's a, there, there, there's a thing. And Keith also told Donnelley that Harris visited the workshop the day before the murder and was like rummaging around. Yes. Yeah. And they end up going, hold on. So [00:24:00] Smeth goes to talk to Harris's husband, rich and Ask Rich about Harris's injury.
And Harris or Rich at first is like, what? Injury? I don't remember what injury. Oh wait, yeah, injury. Yeah, sure. That sounds good. Um, and Rich isn't really into ballet stuff and he doesn't really care about dance stuff as if it wasn't obvious by the therapy. Um, yeah. The therapy meeting before, uh, but Harris and Noel come home are in the middle of this and say that Noel got the part and ELs was there, and Harris was like, what are you doing here?
Yeah. Uh, interesting little nugget I found out. And, uh, you know mm-hmm. Looking at all the, the. The fun bits about this, uh, thing in doing my research? No. The, the character that plays Noel Rich and Harris's daughter is the, uh, dancer that was featured in the New York, uh, city Ballet companies Nutcracker in 2023.
So it's like, it's a very like, uh, specific fun little. [00:25:00] Character thing that was in here, which was it really just a really fun thing that the kings like to do. It's like as, as we're talking, as we're talking about ballet and, uh, theater culture, like they have, they just have stockpiled this cast with like theater and ballet and Broadway people.
Yeah. And also like, I did not know that, but when she was doing some ballet later in the show. I think she's actually ballet, I think, I think I also want some experience here. Yeah. I was cool. Yeah, you could be something. One day kid, she's like, uh, excuse me. I was the Nutcracker in 2023. Okay, you need, I got it.
So while they're there, they talk to Harris about how he got injured and he says he got injured doing roller skating at Rockefeller Center, but no, one, one ice skating. Oh yeah, sorry. Ice skating Rockefeller Center. But no one knows that he skated, but he has a receipt to prove that he was there. Um, ice skating alone.
It was not odd to them, but I dunno why it was not, it's Rockefeller [00:26:00] Center so Well Donnelley's like you went, you went alone. That's kind of weird. Yeah, exactly. And, and both Elsworth and Harris were like, no it's not. Because I mean, but you, you can definitely see Elsbeth going ice skating by herself. You could definitely see her doing that.
Oh, it's like, yes. And she would make five new friends while she was doing it. But like, you know, you could see, they would see her being someone that does that. And like Harris, who is. Lying right now. Yeah. It's like, it's just like, yeah, it's not odd. See? Yeah. I If people do it by themselves, right? Elsewhere, she's like, yeah, totally.
Yeah. I go, I would go, I ski, I have gone, I've gone roller skating by myself. Um, Donnelly then mentions that Harris was at the workshop. He's like, yeah, but like, I'm around, you know, like whatever. They also mentioned that he, he was dating Keith and how Keith still has a thing for him. Here's vouches for Keith here and says, I don't think I would.
He could have made this mistake like this wasn't him. He did not kill, uh, Keith did not kill Donovan, which is at the time I was like, oh, that's interesting. Like, I don't understand why [00:27:00] you wouldn't try to throw Keith under the bus in this moment and like. Be like, oh yeah, it definitely was Keith. It definitely wasn't me.
But it makes a lot of sense and I think it's actually a smart thing for the murderer to do because how he kind of manipulates his husband after this Yeah. Was really good. Like I thought, I was like of all the, of all of our, of. Murderers, you know, people that most of our murderers would've done that would've been like, oh yeah, that Keith, he was always making bonehead mistakes.
But that's the mistake that all of our murderers make. They try too hard to blame someone else for it. And, but this was the total opposite. But then what he does with his husband later is like, okay, like this is actually pretty good. Well, yeah. 'cause he basically like Rich is like what was up with their ice skating?
And he's like, well, sometimes I just like to be alone. Mm-hmm. And they talk about how Keith was texting Harris and it was getting obsessive. And so he wanted to like basically take care of this. And so he basically gets rich to think that Keith was after him to [00:28:00] get Keith in trouble. And, um, instead of think basically like, yeah, no.
I murdered a guy. Well, yeah. 'cause he is like, yeah, Keith was saying some really weird stuff in these text messages. Yeah. I don't, but, but you know what, I don't, I don't wanna get Keith in trouble, so let's not even, don't call the cops. Let's, let's not even go to the cops with this. Let's not do it. But Harris does this knowing that Rich will go to the police with, with the text.
Yes. And so they bring the text message to Elsbeth. Elsbeth isn't buying this at all, and Donnelly and Elsbeth decide, okay, fine. Let's test the speed of the walk from like the ice skating rink to the theater. Well, and this, and this really, uh. I know I mentioned before of Donnelley being supportive of Ellsworth.
Now Donnelley is like, Hey, we, we got, like, we got nice evidence now. Keith definitely did it. Like, so let's not, let's not like wrap it up. Let, let's not do the Ellsworth thing. Okay. Ellsworth, I, I think, I think we, I think Keith is good for this, so. And Ellsworth, of [00:29:00] course, in her infinite wisdom is like, no, this has to be like, the alibi is shaky.
So Wagner's like, all right, well you think it's shaky. Go, go test it. Go test it out. Yeah. So this is a grace. Grace and Ellsworth, uh, hang around. They're going to go quote unquote test if, um, because the thing was, there was no record of Harris. Coming into the physical therapies office, right. There was only a record of him leaving.
So like, okay, well he could have gone to the school, murdered, uh, murdered. Donovan Donovan. Yeah. And ru and rushed to his PT appointment. Just he was late, but he could have rushed there to get there. Yeah. So testing, they're testing whether or not they could get from the workshop to the PTs office in the amount of time that it, that it took.
Yes. And while they do this, they run into the Orphan Girl walk. This is again, uh, straight comparison to Sunset Boulevard, how they would bring a camera out. This is, I mean, I don't think it's a bad thing, but. Like to bring the outside into the theater to let people kind of see theater. [00:30:00] Um, but in this case, it's a very angry Annie looking character walking down the street with, um, singing a song and ELLs Smith points out that Harris could have been on camera.
From that day because they are literally carrying like a steady cam this entire time. Mm-hmm. And we could see through that footage if he was telling the truth. Yeah, the timing, the timing coincidentally matches up perfectly where they would've seen Harris coming into the physical therapies office if Harris was telling the truth about going into the physical therapies office.
So Ellis with this like. Boom bang, we got him because he's obviously not gonna be on this tape because he wasn't at his therapy's office if he committed the murder at this time. So we got his ass. So El Ellsworth is like, and this is good. Ellsworth is confident about something. It gets proven wrong. Oh my gosh.
Yeah. 'cause he is totally on the tape going into going into the apartment. And I think it's funny, uh, that everyone is like kind of having. A moment of like, oh my gosh, [00:31:00] she's wrong. She's like totally human. She's one of us. Yeah. 'cause, because Donny's like, oh my God, Elizabeth, you might, you're actually wrong this time.
Which like, I, this picture, you know, buzz, Smolin, Donley and all the detectives just like in a, in a conference. I'm like, we got her guys, we got her, we finally got her to do something wrong. She's finally wrong about something. Yes. Uh, little did they know a little. Well, I wonder if it'll like, get out that Elsbeth was wrong.
Like, I wonder if this will like come back to them. Every mean. She was wrong about this one. She was wrong about this one. I hope it doesn't, she's wrong about this one piece, but in the end she's still right. She is still correct. Yes. So Elsbeth is like, okay, if he was there, I gotta change my tactic. Let's get into the school.
Let's do a traditional ELs birth. Feist of sorts. Mm-hmm. And she decides she's gonna take dance class with the kids, which was fun and entertaining. She was definitely overdressed for the situation. But, sorry, I mean that this like at this point in, in the Elsbeth show. It [00:32:00] feels like we're trying to get this moment every episode of like, look at how kooky and crazy else with is.
Yeah. And, and dressing up in a different outfit. You know, she's a, she's a mascot, she's a, she's playing tennis. If it's a sports thing, she's doing this, this, that and the other, depending on what the industry is we're tackling that week. So, of course she's in a, a tutu. She's in this. Uh, crazy. Get up and outfit of like, oh, look, look how crazy and kooky yells with this.
Like, her shoes are even like laced with red as opposed to pink. Like, it's, it's a whole thing. It's a whole look as you would expect. Uh, while she's there, she runs into Donovan and Noelle. And Noelle is in her c or not Donovan, Harris. Um, and Noel is in. Her Clara costume and it was like, oh, how did you get that so sofa?
She was like, oh, we bought it last year. And ELs was like, oh, that's kind of weird. Why would you do that? Yeah. Why? So you didn't cancel it when you found out that the, the kids weren't [00:33:00] gonna be in the, in the play this year. He is like, you know how hard it is to cancel something custom from Milan, which was like, I, I didn't think they needed this like, little beat here.
I was like, okay, so what? He didn't cancel the costume. He's rich, he doesn't care about, about the money. Uh, he, he could probably just dress her up in, in a like house version of the Nutcracker, like, I bought this. You're gonna wear it. Do the Nutcracker for me in our living room. Like, whatever. I mean, I would believe it.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I did like where Noelle was like, Noelle was seeing how crazy else with this actually. She's like, she's like, daddy, is that woman okay? She's like, no, no, she's not.
They decide to go back to watch the uh, orphan Girl walk footage here, and they notice that there is this performer that keeps looking up. At the sky, like what? What is going on? So they go and interview him and I thought this was, this is a great theater education moment for, there was people who are not into the theater.
Yeah. I had no idea. I was like, oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense though. But yeah, I was like, okay, cool. So [00:34:00] they talked to this, this man, this performer, and he is a dancer and he tells them basically like I was pulled in, I was a swing, so I was recording myself because I wanted to see what I looked like with my cell phone from up.
There, and I just wanted to make sure that like it was, it was filming, right? But he educates the entire audience on the role of a swing. And a swing in Broadway is someone in the ensemble who can play pretty much any role. It's like an understudy is dedicated to one role, but a swing can be for any role, and they have to be ready to jump in at any moment for any role.
So it's a very high demand, like a demanding, not a high demand, but a demanding job. And without swings. Uh, Broadway couldn't have the schedule that they have, which is eight shows a week, and so, uh, big ups to the swings. I was like, wait to wait to mention them. Yeah. I, at first I thought he was gonna be like, I was looking up, some guy was like, me too, jumping out the window.
So I was pretty [00:35:00] weird. I was like, but then I was like, well, that really makes sense because in this like. Video, it shows Harris walking into the physical therapies office. It's not as if he just walked to the office, ran upstairs and jumped, jumped out the window a minute later. So I was like, okay. But yeah, he says like, yeah, I was recording myself and I've got probably about 45 minutes on this, like on this recording.
I was like, okay, so timeframe would fit to see if Harris snuck out. So that makes a lot of sense. So I was like, okay. And this was kind of like the eureka moment that El needed. This was, this was the smoking gun that Elsworth needed. So we, we jump right to like the reveal. Yeah, I was with Ask Harris to meet him at the workshop.
She surprises him by popping out of the big world weird doll, like she always has to like the mother ginger dress thing. Um, she asks if. Hey, did you come in and like hide in this giant dress mm-hmm. This year And she lays, Ben lays out like the whole crime is what happened. They have the footage from the swing Harris is seen sneaking out of the, [00:36:00] uh, physical therapist building and going back and he also was like carrying some stage blood with him to the, the, uh, physical therapist's office.
'cause they found blood there too. Yeah, I guess it got on his. Clothes or his shoes maybe, and he left it on the window sill. I was like, okay. I was like, all right. It's a little like, it's a little like, eh, it's not the strongest evidence, but then, then like, but it's a proti Yeah. Proprietary blend that only this workshop uses, so that makes sense.
I was like, okay, whatever. Well, and I guess like you would want one of those so that it doesn't steam the clo, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. But I don't know well, like how much, what needs to be proprietary, but, but I'm like, how much blood was there? Because number one, he was hiding in the dress. When the thing went, when the Nutcracker cracked, cracked on and opened, and he was, he was in the thing, like, so did he track some on his shoes?
But he had, he walked like four blocks to the PTs office. Yeah. You told me he had that much blood that he was still [00:37:00] tracking some on the window sill. That was weird. I was like, okay. It's, it was a little bit of a stretch for me, but I was like, all right, I'll, I'll buy it, whatever. At this point, uh, Harris is like, okay.
Like, okay. I did like, okay. But, uh, one more thing before I go, like, don't take me off right away. Yeah. ELs actually, Ellsworth interestingly says, uh, says one more thing. Uh, when he, when he is like, how's it and how does any of that prove what I did? She's like, one more thing. I was like, oh, the Colombo, the Colombo, the classic of Colombo line.
They sneak in here. I was like, okay, this is a spiritual successor Colombo. So I thought that was a little cute. Pretty cute. Um, but yeah. And. Yeah, go ahead. No, I was just gonna say they let him watch his daughter dance in the Nutcracker before taking him off to jail, which is at point mean, mainly so that we could see Clara dancing.
Yeah. Nutcracker. It's at one point. Great. The other point of like, what if she like looked over, like see her father in handcuffs, like, wait, wait, what? What's happening? Like, she would've to [00:38:00] have known, like, she would have to have known, right? Like, she, like, like, Hey, PS by the way, daddy's going to jail. You think they would've told her that before the performance?
I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Probably not. I guess not it, you know, maybe the lights would, would be too bright anyway, for her to actually see. Yeah, they were in the back. They were in the back, so, yeah, I guess so. It was like, it was, he's like, I have one request. I'm like. Uh, we're, you're getting arrested for murder.
I don't think you are in any position to request anything, but yeah, I guess, you know, it's, it's part of Ellsworth nature to be, you know, sweet and nurturing to even even violent criminals that murder people. Like. Yeah. We'll, go ahead and let you let you watch your daughter performance. Sure. It's for the arts, Jason.
It's arts. The arts are under attack. Me. So didn't you not I know, I know. I am aware. I, they brought it back. They right back the line for this one. I heard the arts are under attack. Well, good. So good. Um. But yeah, I feel like in real life people like, no, like you're, you're good. No, this is definitely a big privilege.
Yeah, yeah, [00:39:00] yeah. Also, in this episode, we had some movement on the Alec situation. Uh, the precinct is holding a toy drive and Alec is kind of aligning with that precinct. Basically every me mayor candidate, mayoral candidate is picking like a precinct and. Alex, surprisingly has picked, um, Elizabeth and Wagner's.
I like a lot of people in this precinct who looks over at Elizabeth. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, Marissa's there, which is great. And she's just like, Hey, I don't like this idea of him getting all, not getting credit for the toy drive like we need. It's not like, sorry, police, it's not your thing, it's his thing. Well, and he is, she's sharing the credit with all the other candidates.
Yes. She, she just wants him to be this, this be his sole thing. So she's doing her Marissa thing of like being like annoyed about something. Definitely taking after her father. Mm-hmm. Alex and ELs talk, have a talk about how much they love Christmas, and they're like, oh [00:40:00] my gosh. And Alex's like, maybe we could do something.
She's like, well, I don't know. Uh, they also talk about Teddy and, um, because Elba says, you know, I get to spend every other Christmas with Teddy when he's around. Have you met my son? Like, oh yeah, I wrote that. She wrote that article. It was such a great success. Um, so later when they're putting donations together.
Elizabeth is like, everything's here. I just need to wrap stuff. And she's like, she can't wrap it. Yeah. Alex says, you can't wrap it because it's a security issue. That is where we are. America. That is where we are, cannot wrap Christmas gifts for donation because they need to be vetted before they are wrapped.
Mm-hmm. Teddy is also talking to Wagner during this whole thing, and you could kind of see there's like. A conversation he asked about the article and Subway, Pete bringing back all of this stuff that had kind of happened, I don't know, five episodes ago now. Yeah, at this point. Well, it took, well it took you so long, Teddy like, [00:41:00] and he was saying that like Subway, Pete has dementia.
He's not sure he found the right guy, but Alec acted with confidence that he was the kid. So that's who Pete. Thought it was. Mm-hmm. Well, and a Alec acted like he recognized Subway Pete. Right. And now Teddy's like, I don't think that was Subway Pete. I think that was a different person because Subway, Pete's got, uh, the subway Pete I found has issues.
So I don't think that's the right subway. Pete. It was like a hired Subway Pete to come in and like do something there. Yeah. And Teddy is definitely worried about Elsbeth and is basically asking Wagner like, is there something I should know? Something is off. Um. So they collect a bunch of gifts. Wagner talks about how, um, how awful orphan girl is, which is, is definitely a criticism of a traditionalist.
Mm-hmm. Um, so he doesn't want to watch the camera footage, but he did find something on Alec, [00:42:00] and so he, he calls Teddy. We don't really know what that thing is. Yeah. But yeah, we, we find out a little later, but yeah, we, we, we get to see, we see the phone call. Yes. I found something on Bloom today. Gotta talk to you about it.
That's a good one. You did good. Uh, precinct 11, which is the precinct of our, our friends here, has won the most toys or has won the contest because Marissa brought, bought the most toys at the. At the end, grace is like, Hey, Elsworth, I bought you a Christmas gift. Here's two tickets to Orphan Girl. And she's like, oh, that's so sweet.
But I can't accept them because of the consent decree, but I can buy one and you could go with me. I thought this was like a cute little friendship moment, but in the back of my mind I was also like, you are no Kaya. You'll never be Kaya Grace. You'll never be Kaya. Get out of here. Is it wrong? Is it wrong?
No. Should I be embracing the new world? I don't know. No, I still miss Kaia also. [00:43:00] Where's Kaia? Still Dunno. Where's Kaia? Where is she? Tell me she's okay, please. So, um, and then she goes to talk to Alec and Apple was like, Hey dude, you doing anything for New Year's Eve? And like, actually I am now because I just got these tickets.
Um. And then he does in a little creepy way. Too bad there's no missile toe here. Ellsworth, uh, politely clash. He's like, yeah, yeah. I try, I try to, but there's no hr, there's, uh, HR department has an issue with missile toe. Just try to get it in there, but you know, whatever. Uh, yes. And then Alex like, okay, well let's try for January.
And she's like, I have wide open, I have no plans. I thought that was like a really funny meta moment of like, I'm wide open in January. We get, we, the show is not coming back to February. Like, I got nothing to do in January. 'cause I won't be on, I won't, there won't be a show. So I'm wide open. Yeah. I was like, that's funny.
That's fun. Yeah. At this point, Alec walks ellizabeth over [00:44:00] and says like, Hey, hey, I gotta talk to you about something. Well, Wagner the, oh, yeah, Wagner talks to you. Wagner calls Ellizabeth Ellizabeth about Alec and brings it over and says, Hey, I don't think this guy's been fully honest about his path. His past and Elba here is kind of like, okay, like what are you, what are you telling me?
When in what capacity are you telling me this? Wagner And Wagner's just like, well, he lied about being unhoused because we could track his housing records and there was never, he talked to the landlord, there was never any pattern of like leaving or anything like that, and he's just basically telling Elsbeth to be careful.
He is not doing anything else, I'm assuming. Wagner's gonna take on some of this investigation with Teddy, but he's also trying to warn sbe. Yeah, I think it's gonna be interesting, however this comes. To light or comes out, whatever this is going to be. And I would have to wonder if this was, if this was the real world.
Right. And we, we've got a little view of this over on The Good Wife with Eli Gold and [00:45:00] Opposition Research. Mm-hmm. You are telling me that it took Teddy, who mm-hmm. Is like, not even a real reporter, he's just like a researcher at this, at this moment. And they let him do a a little puff piece article. This boy, this, this, this man.
Is the one to crack the nut wide open and no one, no one else of all the other mayoral candidate, uh, you know, campaign managers and researchers. No one else found this out. Just Teddy and Wagner together. Yeah. And the entire city of New York City, like, you know what I mean? No, it's like, it's not like it's a small town or anything like that.
It's one of the largest cities in the world. Um, but yeah, and also with is kind of like shocked and just like stands there for a minute. I'm not, I'm not sure what this, I'm not sure what the reaction was. Was it like a, was it kind of like a Yeah, I, I, I, it could have been like a. I know, but now you know.
Now I know that you, it could have been know that something's up because I'm still, [00:46:00] there's still was, there was that moment, like early in this, this season where Marissa pulls Elizabeth into and we're like, you are the only one that can save New York City. It was just like it never got followed up on. We are still wondering like, what was that about?
What other secret little plan is happening here? But then they, like Marissa and sbe, look at each other and I was just like, what's wrong? And I was like. Nothing, nothing's wrong. It's like, so I'm, I'm very confused about what's happening and I'm sure we'll, we'll get the answer at some point, but not in January, in, in the new year.
And in 2026 we'll figure out what's going on. Uh, because I would, like, I was waiting for this moment and I thought, we're gonna get it. When Marissa looks at ellizabeth and goes, what's wrong? I'd be like, whether they be like. Wagner know something's wrong with Alec. Like Yeah. Or like a, like a head nod.
Like there mm-hmm. This was like part of the plan for Wagner to find out work. Yeah. Or like some sort of acknowledgement that they were on the same page working together. Page about something. [00:47:00] Yeah, exactly. Because I was like, I was like, now I'm just more confused than ever. I'm like, what's happening?
What's going on? Yeah. And that's where we leave Elsbeth in 2025. Yeah. With a lot of, I don't know. Yeah. We'll see you guys after the Winter Olympics. Uh, you know, that's Oh, yeah. Kinda what we're on hiatus for, right? Like, we don't want to compete with the Olympics. I totally forgot about those things, which is sad because I love them.
Mm-hmm. For sure, for sure. Uh, Marissa. Yeah, Marissa, uh, with your two S's, like the Marissa here, thank you. In, in the show. And also the g like in gold. Like, oh, there you go. Tell you Kings initials. They know Kings love you. Kings love you. They know, um, you wanna tell the folks where they can find you online and what you're up to nowadays.
Yeah, sure. You can find me at it's me marissa g.com, where I have links to all the podcasts that I'm on, including the YouTube and podcast for this one. So if you're listening to us, hop on over to po um, YouTube, check us out there. We've got a pretty [00:48:00] festive border going on for this particular episode. So if you're looking for something fun and festive to warm your YouTube screen, you can find us there.
Um, also. Um, I am on Whirlwind podcast talking about Pretty Little Liars one previously honored at a time and still exploring space with my sister, uh, as we watch Star Trek, the next generation on the USS sisterhood. Jason, that's what's up with me in podcast world, at least What's going on with you? Uh, you can find me on the Perfect Match Podcast.
Uh, we are exclusively on Patreon right now. Uh, we're talking about an older season of Murder First Sight. We're talking season 10, one of the best seasons of the franchise. So check me out over there. Uh, that's where you can find me. That's where you can find Marissa. Until next time, stay good.