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USDN Podcast is a cinematic indie comics interview series hosted by the USDN_Chairman and the Council of Nerds — spotlighting the creators, storytellers, and worldbuilders shaping the future of independent comics.
Each episode dives beyond headlines into the real journeys behind the books — from Kickstarter launches and creative struggles to the philosophies driving today’s indie storytelling movement.
This isn’t about rumors or recycled news.
It’s about the people creating the worlds.
Through in-depth conversations, creator spotlights, and crowdfunding discussions, USDN explores:
• The rise of indie comics
• The business of crowdfunding
• The art of worldbuilding
• The realities of independent storytelling
USDN is where indie comics come to life — for the fans, by the creators, and powered by the community.
You are listening to the USDN on the
DFPN.
Thanks for watching!
What is up, everybody?
And welcome to the United States
Department of Nerds,
where we are for the people,
by the people and of the people.
Please forgive me again.
I am still a little congested,
but we are going to get through this
with Gary here.
But let's dive into it.
So some stories wait.
They live in sketchbooks and late night
ideas in the quiet persistence of creators
who know the world they're building.
just hasn't had its moment yet for gary
that moment has finally arrived legacy
idols and bones isn't just a comic it's
the unleashing of a universe more than a
decade in the making a brutal collision of
superhero mythology sci-fi dread and
horror
fueled violence wrapped in an unapologetic
spirit of your favorite nineteen nineties
comic energy.
Today we sit down with the creator behind
the chaos to explore the birth of a
new legacy,
the cost of building gods in a broken
world.
Ladies and gentlemen,
the Council of Nerds is now in session.
Gary, welcome to the USDA, my friend.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for having me on a Saturday.
Dude,
I told you Saturdays are for my friends
in the UK.
That's what we're here to do.
Even on Valentine's Day, right?
Yeah, my wife's fine about it.
It's okay.
Mine's at work right now, so we're good.
But let's dive into it.
So this idea has lived since two thousand
and eight.
Why has kept this book alive and why
is now that perfect time?
Um, yeah,
I'd say probably around two thousand late,
certainly where the designs for the
characters sort of started popping into my
head.
Um, and it was just me drawing,
you know,
Eidolon and carcass and just sort of
going, oh, that's quite a cool character.
That's cool character.
Um,
I don't think I didn't even have a
story then.
Um,
by the time that I started thinking about
the story, it was probably,
it was literally just a rip off of
the death of Superman.
Um,
And there's still a lot of that in
there, um,
but it's definitely gone off in other
directions.
Um, but yeah, so, I mean,
I always knew that it was going to
be sort of quite a few issues long
and that's, that's the problem, isn't it?
Instead of trying to find the time to
sort of go,
how on earth would I do something that's
several issues long?
Um, and I think,
I don't know when it would have been
probably around,
around the sort of,
probably just before that,
I did actually draw, I think,
thirteen pages of it,
and I absolutely hated it.
It was just like, nah, this is rubbish.
I wasn't good enough at what I'd done.
And that completely went to the side.
I think I put those pages into the
deluxe PDF version of issue one,
so that people can still see my years
of where that came from.
And then,
It would have been all the way to,
what would it have been, in twenty twenty.
And the horrible,
the even worse C word of Covid.
Yeah.
And I was furloughed off work the entire
time.
And I was just like, where's that comic?
I wanted to do that comic.
I'm sat at home.
I'm literally sat at home.
doing nothing so this is twenty twenty and
I did I think I drew about twelve
pages and I had another twelve pages that
were all in the various levels of laid
out and pencil etched up things like that
and then you know furlough came to an
end and and you're back to work and
you go okay it didn't happen push it
to the side push it to the side
don't worry about it
And then it would have only been probably
about a year ago,
maybe a year and a half by now,
because obviously I'm on issue two.
Well,
issue two is done and I'm working on
issue three,
that my hours changed at work.
So I used to do full-time hours and
now I'm home two days a week.
I do part-time.
And I was like, what about those pages,
those horrible pages that I drew?
Let's have a look at them.
Yeah.
on the computer and you have a look
and you go do you know what these
aren't as bad as as i remember i
quite like this so that would have
obviously been you know twenty four pages
of the first issue and i said no
i need to i need to prove to
potential readers that i'm serious so i
thought i'm gonna lump issue two in with
issue one so technically issue one it's
forty eight pages of story
A lot of stories.
Is actually what I wrote for a friend
of mine to do the script for the
first issue, the first two issues.
So I was like,
I'm going to be serious about this.
I'm going to finish what I've already
done,
but I'm then going to draw another twenty
two pages and get that all into issue
one to prove to myself that I'm serious
about doing it.
Um, so yeah,
so that was what I did.
I got, you know, yeah.
Pages, uh, printed is.
Did a Kickstarter.
I wouldn't say it did fantastic,
but it got, you know, covered my goals,
covered print costs and at the end of
the day, that's all you can hope for.
Right.
Yeah.
And it gave me enough sort of motivation
to go, yeah, I'm carrying on with this.
I'm, you know, say issue two,
I'm always going to have the entire issue
drawn before I put it on Kickstarter.
This won't be like it's fifty percent,
it's seventy percent, none of that.
It's a hundred percent.
That issue is drawn and it is now
going on Kickstarter and I'm already on
the next one.
nice i like that so you mentioned that
you brought that off the shelf and you
know that that makes me think of how
many artists and how many writers out
there have like just what could be a
banger just sitting on their shelf or
saved to a hard drive somewhere you know
what i'm saying yeah it's crazy to think
about it was just sat on my computer
and in the back of my head it's
always there you know it's always there
going and especially um
As I say,
I do freelance design work home two days
a week, and it's very sporadic,
the amount of work you get in.
Work was there, I was doing it,
and I was pushing myself trying to get
work coming in,
but you're still sitting around,
you're watching TV, you just sort of go,
and then you just think,
why am I sitting here just watching TV?
There's that thing,
there's that thing back here.
Why am I not looking at that?
And now it's taken over.
So I'm not taking on any new work.
I've got a few existing clients,
so I'll still do work for them,
but this has taken over.
So as long as I've still got money
coming in from the part-time work I do
and things like that,
I can keep this going.
So you are a graphic designer by trade.
How did that professional background shape
the storytelling of Legacy?
I don't know if it's shaped the
storytelling at all.
I think if anything,
all it's really done is it's given me,
you know,
it means that I know exactly how to
Not just,
I don't know how to draw a comic,
you know,
that's the one thing I'm working on.
But as a graphic designer,
I know how to get my pages laid
up.
I know how to get things ready for
print.
I know sort of like, well,
this has got to be CMYK and,
you know,
I've got to make sure this is a
print ready file and stuff.
So, yeah,
it's certainly the time I've had at work
has made it a lot less stressful to
know exactly what I've got to do.
And it also means that I know printers
as well.
So I can contact printers and go, look,
you know what we, you know,
I've done some, you know,
so with you going to printer though,
that automatically puts you in a league of
your own and a step above others who
have to go out and find a printer.
You actually know a printer who does work
for you.
So that's really cool.
Yeah.
So through the company that I work for,
we can do very small limited runs and
I can certainly do my own like test
prints there and get them stapled and
guillotine down to size.
But we wouldn't do sort of a large
run.
But yeah,
I know several printers and I can get
several different prices for all different
things.
And go, come on, mate, come on.
Some built-in cheat code.
Look at you with the built-in cheat code.
let's talk about legacy here so legacy
idols and bones lives at the intersection
of superhero mythology sci-fi scale horror
consequences what defines the tone of this
universe tone's a difficult one i'd say
that what i'm trying to to do with
it as someone who's been reading comics
since i was and i still read superhero
comics now
but I'd say I read more sort of
horror comic, sci-fi comics,
is I want consequences in my comic.
I mean,
I absolutely love the MCU because I'm
forty seven and I came from an era
of when like comic book films were,
you know,
things like that were coming out.
That was so horrible.
Yeah, exactly.
So once the MCU.
We did get Blade in that era.
yeah you know we started getting the good
ones and the x-men came along and so
what i'm saying is like i i love
the mcu but it is aimed at you
know it's got that twelve a rating and
it's you know if you had a character
even a character like war machine if
you've got a character like war machine
out there with you know guns on his
shoulders people are gonna die there's
people dying
There's people accidentally getting in the
way.
There's, you know, things like that.
And so issue one starts with a character
who's very much a sort of machine type
character.
And he just opens fire on a beach.
And I don't care if you are Superman,
people on that beach are going to die.
You can get in and you can stop
that guy.
Yeah.
but it's, it's consequences.
You know,
if you've got these incredibly powerful
people running around, you see it in,
you know,
the boys and other things like that.
Um,
but the comic book is just so good.
Hopefully when it gets ready to finish,
that's the route they go is the comic
book route.
Cause that ended or the comic book was
amazing.
Yeah.
But I do want,
I want everything in my comic to be
sort of like, if this happened,
these are the consequences that would
would follow on from it and obviously
within that you know I want to have
action if I'm only getting to draw a
couple of days a week I mostly want
to be drawing cool stuff and there's
obviously there's of course stations and
there's you know people in buildings you
know just you know a chat you gotta
have that because it's still you've got to
push the story forward there was I think
this is actually one thing I forgot is
that
Before I got back into doing issue one,
I was reading an Avengers trade.
I can't remember who wrote it,
but I was reading an Avengers trade,
and you've got Thor and Captain America
and whoever else was with them.
and they rock up on this island,
and there's these, like, massive kaiju,
you know,
snakes and monsters and all this sort of
stuff, and I'm like, oh, okay, okay,
this is going to kick off.
There's going to be a big old,
good old, big old fight here.
Turn the page,
and Thor was standing on top of a
big snake-type creature,
holding Mjolnir in his hand, going, ha-ha,
we beat them.
Yeah, I don't like that.
I'm sorry, what?
There's like three pages of action missing
there.
And it was like,
let's go and have a discussion with Dr.
Doom.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
What?
This is a comic.
This is a comic.
I want to see the massive fight with
the monsters.
That's the whole reason you buy the comic,
right?
Because you want that action.
You can still push a story forward during
the fight.
And if you're really good at it,
but if you are really good at it,
you can definitely push a story forward
with a fight.
That can be what is the story of
it.
But I literally was just like,
I cannot do this turn the page and
you've you've you've skipped action why
would you do that and I don't remember
anything else about that book because I
was just like that's horrible
And that would probably cost you fifteen
ninety nine.
I want to draw things that are like,
and trust me,
I wish I could draw big old cities
getting smashed up because in the first
issue it would have been set in a
city.
But my background drawing skills are not
that great yet.
So I ended up being in a quarry.
You took the Rob Liefeld method,
just draw it behind a rock.
But yeah,
that's one of the things I want from
my comic is big action,
but big action that has consequences.
And then everything in issue one,
all the characters that pop up, you know,
they're not just there for no reason.
So a character like Widowmaker in the
first issue, you're going to see her.
She's a badass.
I mean,
it sort of feels like maybe people think
she's just there to introduce Carcass,
which she is.
Obviously,
that's how I wanted to introduce him.
But she's not gone.
That character will come back.
Other things are happening.
And her motivations will also be continued
on.
Yeah.
Dude, I'm not going to lie.
Her introduction in the first book was
amazing.
Just her standing over a carcass with a
knife in her hand.
I was like, that is so badass.
So badass.
Dude,
there's a lot of really good pages in
that book.
The fight afterward was really good too.
But that one midsection of that page,
just phenomenal.
Thank you.
But let's keep it going.
So this legacy captures the spirit of the
nineties, which is amazing.
It's one of my favorite eras,
although everything was overprinted back
then.
But how did you keep that nostalgic feel
without it being like,
Well, let me rephrase that.
It captures the spirit of the nineties
without becoming nostalgic because this
doesn't feel like, yes,
it reads the nineties, but it, it doesn't,
you know what I'm saying?
I think that goes back to what I
just said about this Avengers comic.
You wouldn't have had that in the
nineties.
You know,
I love the fact that you can have
these fantastic stories in modern
traits and you know we both completely
agree that comedy is more than just
superheroes it's a genre it can be
absolutely anything and you can have you
know stories telling anything and you
didn't get so much that in the nineties
but I do think that like the action
it was just big and just out there
and it didn't try and strain itself to
sort of like well that's just not
realistic you know it was just it was
just a bit mad and like
I picked up Issue Spawn.
I was quite late getting into that comic.
It was Issue Forty-Five that I picked up.
I think I was about seventeen then.
And that just blew my mind,
because I was just like, what is this?
And I went back and got all the
various things,
and then bought all of the, you know,
up to about Issue One Hundred,
like just great Capullo.
So,
there's people out there who say the first
one hundred are the best run.
I will argue that from...
About three hundred Ford,
it gets good again because I picked it
up around.
So I picked up like I think I
have like the first ten issues.
I need to go back and get like
eleven through ninety nine or something
because I think I have issue one hundred.
But I got out of comic books for
a very long time just simply because.
I traveled a lot and I just did
not have the money to support a habit
like that, so I gave it up completely.
So,
but I did pick it up after I
settled back down and, um,
Now it's like short box after short box.
It's still one of my favorite reads.
I have the compendiums because, again,
I'm not going to track down all those
comic books that I don't have because
they're overly priced.
And I'm not going to track them down.
But the compendiums were there.
Grab the compendiums.
And I will admit, you know,
after one hundred,
it kind of went downhill and it pissed
up again.
I think about two fifty.
It did three hundred forty.
Yeah.
I've picked up issues, three hundred,
and then I have in the last certainly
couple of years,
I'll pick up the odd trade.
I think it's not that Spawn is a
bad comic.
I could never say that.
I mean,
just what Todd McFarlane has done for the
industry is unbelievable.
But it's fallen into the trap of it
became a massive IP and now Spawn,
to me,
would be exactly the same as me picking
up just like Spider-Man or Superman or
anything like that.
I'm sorry,
I just don't have an interest in now.
Not because they're bad,
but I'm done with it.
You know, I read them.
When I was in my... Well, I mean,
did split it,
because now you have the Scorched.
They did a Violator short run.
They have Salmon Twitch.
Yeah.
They have King Spawn.
They have Medieval Spawn.
God, they're always so well-drawn.
She Spawn is going to get her own
five-issue run.
Written by Gal Simone, I think, isn't it?
Huh?
I think it's written by Gal Simone.
I think so.
I think it is Gail Simone,
which is amazing.
All praise Gail Simone.
She is amazing.
And I'm so happy.
She's getting a lot of love.
It still comes back to me as like,
we're at a point where there's no
consequences.
There's no consequence with comics because
it's an IP.
It's massive.
You know, it happened to Spider-Man,
Superman, Batman,
Spawn is now in that list.
It's too much money for them to really
break the mold and try and do something
else.
Spawn broke that mold and became what it
wasn't.
You know what I'm saying?
It wasn't the Batman.
It wasn't the Superman.
It wasn't the X-Men.
Codman Farland broke the mold,
rebuilt the mold,
and now he is the mold.
Yeah.
Which is wild to think about what this
crazy indie company that popped up in,
I think, in nineteen ninety three.
It has become this massive market of
creator owned comics.
And that's what I still love about them.
Creator owned.
I mean,
my my favorite run would be Invincible.
Oh, phenomenal.
Phenomenal ride.
I hate the fact that that series ended,
and I love the fact that that series
ended.
Isn't it the way it should have been,
and when it should have?
Any more or any less would not have
been right.
I don't want to give spoilers to anyone
who's never read Invincible because that
is the one thing I would say.
It feels like every other show Invincible
gets brought up and I'm like,
read it before you watch it or if
you're watching it,
stop watching it and go read it.
Yeah, it managed to run, what,
a hundred and forty-four issues.
There were a few trades and things like
that.
You could get the trades or the...
I personally own the compendiums.
Like,
I went and got the entire compendium as
a set.
Gorgeous.
And it was just the art, the writing,
everything is just beautiful.
Yeah.
The animated series does not do it
justice.
No, it's before this,
obviously we were talking about, you know,
our kids and things.
My daughter will watch Invincible with me
and she will get very excited about a
new series coming along.
And she's like, Oh yeah, Invincible.
And I'm like,
Got all the trades out there.
I still think that the comic is better
than the animated series.
I think series two and three got better
than series one.
Oh, it got better.
Like a hundred times better as it went.
But
It's like, just go and read that.
So they also did The Walking Dead as
well.
And in the beginning of the TV series,
I loved it because they were doing Old
Man Carl.
And the Old Man Carl arc in The
Walking Dead is the main story.
And it was amazing.
It's one of the best written storylines
ever.
a comic book in my opinion it is
my favorite writer yeah definitely yeah
old man carl amazing amazing story arc and
then they killed him i was like what
the are y'all doing like you were building
his story this was his story it is
his story and you just killed him
And I turned it off,
and I haven't watched it again.
I only collect trades.
I very rarely pick up comics.
But I was collecting all the Walking Dead
trades,
and a series came along while the comic
was still going.
And I was speaking up with my friend
at work.
He was a massive fan of the show,
but he's not a comic book fan at
all.
And he would sort of say to me,
like, oh, is that from the comics?
And I'm like, yeah, some of it is,
some of it isn't.
It diverged off so much and became such
a massive thing that even though Kirkman
is my favorite writer,
I am pretty sure that I've never actually
finished reading The Walking Dead.
It was too much.
I only have the Old Man Carl arc
in trade paperback because I wasn't in
comics at the time.
When The Walking Dead started,
that's when I went and picked up the
first trade paperback of the Old Man Carl
arc and started reading it.
And I was just like,
I got to have this.
I got to go pick up more.
And I ended up collecting the whole arc
because it was just so good.
Like,
I could just pick it up and read
it and be disappointed in the TV series.
I still got the compendium,
the first compendium, which covers, like,
what, first forty-something issues?
Yeah.
I'm sure I got that signed by Charlie
Adler at one convention I went to.
Yeah, I'm sure he signed it.
Oh, that's really cool.
Yeah.
I did read the rest of the trades.
I literally only kept that compendium
because I just felt so burnt out.
by the series, easy.
I need space back on my shelves and
I wish I hadn't,
I should have kept him.
So what'd you think about them stripping
battle beast out of invincible and giving
him his own comic book run?
I,
I am absolutely delighted to see Kirkman
and oddly working together again.
Absolutely.
I think, you know, they, I wasn't,
I wasn't a fan of oddly on Spider-Man.
I'm a huge Hulk fan,
but I didn't like the Hulk role.
His art was great,
but it didn't let him run loose with
it like he could have.
So to see them back working together puts
joy in my heart.
People rave about the character of Battle
Beast, and I'm like, yeah, I like that.
I personally like it, you know,
because he's supposed to die.
His only goal in life is to die.
And he's got to go out fighting.
So, like,
it's amazing because his only goal is,
like, he will die in battle.
As well, you and I,
having read Invincible,
we know what happens to that character.
Oh, yeah.
And I'm just sort of like, well,
I know what happens to that character.
And I'm going to read it and I'm
going to enjoy the hell out of it
because it's one of my favourite writers
with one of my favourite artists.
But I think there's part of me that
wishes that they had come up with
something new and different rather than
delving into the world of Battle Beast,
as much as I'm enjoying it.
i'm enjoying it and i can see where
you're saying with that but i've enjoyed
it so much and they teased it i
think back in twenty twenty one twenty
twenty two they released a single issue of
battle beast because i got the uh signed
battle beast i will always pick it up
because oh yeah what was it he picked
up um they did something was it called
solid blood
Did you grab that issue?
I did not, no.
So they literally, they did this,
I wish I was downstairs and I could
go and grab it.
They did this whole, like,
it's not April Fools,
I don't know how to describe it,
but Kirkman was like,
I've gone into the warehouse and there's
this palette of comics that I don't know
anything about,
but apparently I wrote it and Opley drew
it.
And it's literally issue seventeen of a
comic called Solid Blood.
by kirkman and otley and it throws you
right into the middle of a story like
an issue of these characters was it is
that one issue it wasn't um i don't
think it was put in like previews or
whatever you know you get these days yeah
that's really cool though into the comic
shops um and yet that i probably wishes
they'd you know they'd done that but i
love that two of them did that i
think that was fantastic
So let's dive into your characters.
So for your heroes, you have...
I'm going to attempt to pronounce his
name.
Is it Eidolon?
Eidolon.
Eidolon.
So it's like an idol.
Okay.
Eidolon.
Okay.
And then Carcass.
And then Carcass, yeah.
And then for your villains,
you have Pulse.
Yeah.
Widowmaker, who is probably my...
Just so amazing.
Like, jeez,
your introduction to her was phenomenal.
And then Reordained.
Yeah, Reordained, yeah.
So even there,
to show what a crappy writer I am.
Because I'd always had that character in
my head, Uriodain,
as basically a doomsday character.
You know,
he's the mastermind for the fights,
the superhero.
Well,
another word for doomsday is foreordain,
like F-O-R-E-D-A-I-N, foreordain.
So I just took the first two letters
off of that and stuck an apostrophe in
it and called him real name.
If it works, it works, right?
It sounds like a cool alien monster name.
Obviously,
the things happened to that character in
the first issue,
but the effects of what that character did
will be felt for quite some time.
So for discussion here,
so are they protectors or problems?
What truly makes these powers dangerous in
this world?
And is this more the story about heroism
or more about legacy of the characters?
I think it is about legacy.
It's because, you know, not being an IP,
you know, none of the characters are safe.
Anything can happen to any of the
characters.
And yes, it's... What's this?
It's confused me.
Yeah, sorry, you've confused me.
What was the question again?
No, you're good, man.
That's fucking hilarious.
So are they protectors or problems or what
truly makes these powers dangerous in this
world?
The characters,
so certainly Eidolon is a superhero.
He is the front-facing number one
superhero of the world.
Even in issue one, you know,
there's adverts in there for the eau de
parfum or whatever you want to call it.
Dude, that had me cracking up.
I'm not going to lie.
Those two commercials you did on the
inside of them, those were awesome.
And I want to, so the plan was,
there's a sidebar here, every issue was,
will have uh hopefully if i can figure
it out we'll have a full page artwork
that probably won't have any like dialogue
on it that does push forward or build
the world um so very much the fact
that there is simply a um an advert
in the in the comic showing the idolon
has his own range of you know aftershave
or whatever dude so it reminded me of
those old school nineties yeah commercials
with the eau de parfum and the dude's
just like yeah because he he just sees
himself as like the sexiest guy on the
planet which
definitely plays into a lot of where the
story goes.
Well, I mean, if we read the story,
I mean, he has no problem with ladies.
No.
At the moment.
Yeah, that is true.
And then obviously the other page in issue
one is the kids menu, isn't it?
Yes.
Yeah.
With a,
with a toy on top of it and
stuff.
And then it also has the little box
where you could draw your favorite hero or
whatever.
And then the kids drew him.
Yeah.
So that even that,
comes back.
Like, I'm trying to sort of, like,
nothing in issue one is throwaway.
You know,
every time that first issue will more than
likely get touched on or brought back in
a big way as it goes on.
So, yeah, so certainly, you know,
Eidolon is the forefront of superheroism
in the world,
even though behind the scenes.
I never wanted him to be
He's not a loose guy from the boys.
Are you talking about a blender?
Yeah, yeah, Homelander.
He's not Homelander.
He's not an evil guy.
He's not a bad guy.
He is a superhero,
but behind closed doors, he'll, you know,
he's taking drugs and drinking and just
having sex with whoever's around and
whatever.
But I don't think he's a bad person.
He still will go out there and he
will, you know,
save that cat in a tree if he's
told he has to go and do it,
he'll go and do it.
Yeah.
But he's not, he's not a bad person.
um and then obviously you've got someone
like carcass but i think his motivations
for doing it are very different and a
lot of that plays into because they're
brothers we've said that yeah yeah no we
didn't see it yet but they are brothers
yeah they are brothers yeah and i think
the reasons he does it much more plays
into um their father and his
his effect on the world because you know
again what i really liked about carcass is
he doesn't look like your typical
superhero no like when you first see him
on the cover you're like oh that has
to be the bad guy because that's what
in your head what a bad guy is
supposed to look like but he's not he
he's the one of the other hero in
the book yeah yeah and i mean even
even in the first three pages of the
comic,
they're a bit of a sort of fake
out because it's set, what,
sixty five million years ago.
But that all comes back.
And I'm hoping that, you know,
if everything goes well,
that if I manage to get a second
arc or, you know,
even if it's just a couple of one
shots or something that the the characters
seen in those first three pages, you know,
they'll come back.
It's.
It's all just world building.
No,
I'm glad that's a perfect segue because
we're going to talk about issue one real
quick.
So it's fifty two pages,
forty eight pages of story,
and it builds this foundation for you.
Fifty two pages is basically a graphic
novel.
I don't even want to think about how
many pages are still ahead of me at
the moment because I've I'm talking to
other artists and stuff and a friend of
mine who's done a pin up.
uh initial two matt timpson who's just
done a pinup that's just blown me out
of the water glad you brought him up
too because that's that's the next topic
please go yeah um so if yeah it's
it's a hell of a lot of pages
ahead of me i don't want to think
about that and yeah so he's doing a
one shot that he's going to put on
kickstarter soon that i've been very lucky
to he's showing me some pages
um and everyone's going just do one shot
just do just you know just do or
make it less issues make it less issues
and maybe it's because i'm i'm having to
now write it myself i'm like no i
know what happens in issues three four
five all the way through to issue six
which technically obviously as we've said
earlier would have been issue seven
because yeah one is two issues you know
it's got two issues worth of story in
it so it's a seven issue essentially
I'm drawing but while I'm still enjoying
it and you know it's a lot ahead
of me but I'm excited because I obviously
know what's coming up I'm like oh I
can't wait to get to issue five where
that thing happens and I get to draw
that it's awesome just to see how much
you're enjoying this and how passionate
you are to get this done,
which this week it's over.
It really does.
It bleeds over.
It is awesome to see dude.
So you also have a pinup coming from
Dan butcher as well.
Yeah.
Who did, who does,
he's a co-host on another podcast and he's
got his own web comic called Vanguard,
which I admit I've only started reading
sort of the first seven or eight issues
into that.
I, I,
Obviously,
I'm drawing it's why I'm doing this.
But I will very often draw,
like be obsessed with a smaller comic like
did you did you read a comic called
petrol head?
I didn't.
You haven't I see that.
That's it was by Rob Williams and pipe
up.
And I think it's the best comic I
think it came out in twenty twenty four.
Definitely look into the trade for petrol
head is fantastic.
Okay.
reading it I was like I've got to
draw that factor I've got to draw it
because it just feels like the ultimate
kind of sign of I don't know about
respect but a sign of like I think
what you've done is really cool and I
want to so when when Dan Butcher came
to me and said would you be interested
in me doing like a either a variant
cover or a pin-up or something for your
comic I'm like hell yes to have someone
else
Draw my characters.
For someone else to go,
I think you've done something that I want
to draw them.
I want to have a go at drawing
your characters.
You just go, oh, a hundred percent.
That's dream.
Yeah.
So that's, that's dude,
just segue in so well.
I love it.
I was,
the next question was literally how
important is community collaboration in,
in the world building?
And you just summed that up perfectly.
Yeah.
Form of flattery.
it is they contact you and go can't
i draw your characters yeah and i i
did say to dan um because he's working
on his own indie comic at the moment
i i i have pledged towards it it's
either called red viper or viper i can't
remember um towards it and he's drawing
page online and i said to him look
i i definitely want to draw one of
your characters for something you've done
if you if you would like me to
you know if you're interested in doing
obviously i'm i'm so busy with with one
I've got to try and find the time
to do it.
But I would, yeah,
I would love to draw, you know,
other people's indie characters because
everyone's drawing, you know, things.
And I don't want to go into a
whole AI rant here.
People are pumping out so much AI stuff.
They are.
Of characters and stuff.
And I love the Hulk.
I'm on several Hulk Facebook groups.
And the amount of times you're just like,
oh, my God, no, no.
Yeah.
It's just so much fun.
For someone to go,
I want to take time out of my
day to draw your thing and for me
to maybe say that to someone else is
just the highest compliment.
Dude, I will say this.
The indie comic book community on Facebook
is some of the best stuff.
Everybody is so helpful.
Everybody...
And they're not afraid to call out
bullshit either.
And I love it.
I'm in multiple groups, obviously,
for what I do here,
because I advertise in those groups.
And a lot of people I meet come
from those groups.
And
everybody is always really cool and really
chill.
Like I wish I could participate more,
but I just don't have that time and
freedom to do that because obviously I'm,
once my advertising is done and I fill
a month, it's literally just becomes,
okay,
now I got to focus on the people
now and get, you know,
and building this stuff.
But yeah,
I can't say anything bad about any of
those communities really.
Like some of them are pretty bad about
the AI stuff,
but I just don't think it's admin the
proper way.
But for the most part,
they're all really phenomenal communities.
And I can't encourage people enough to
join those communities.
Not only share your work, but, you know,
help others.
And I'm blown away by the quality of
most indie comics.
Now it's,
it's a tough sort of thing to get
into.
And,
You know, I hope mine does well,
but I'm looking at what other people do,
and I'm like, oh, my God,
this is considered indie?
Like, this is fantastic.
It's crazy, right?
So much you can pledge towards.
You're like,
I'd really like to look at that guy's
one, but then, you know,
I'll only just pledge towards that guy's
one.
Yeah.
And it's like so I had Chris Ford
on here who does dark pink comics like
he was his Kickstarter was seen by one
of the bigger like cover artists for like
Marvel, DC, other indie comics.
And he was just like, hey,
I got to give you a cover.
That was it.
And he made him a cover.
And I love that.
Because even the bigger names out there
are starting to recognize not just
Kickstarter,
but other indie creators because they were
there once.
And they're giving back to those
communities as well.
I'm telling you,
Indie Comics has one of the best
communities out there granted just like
any community it has some toxicity it has
some bullshit but from a overall
perspective we have one of the best
communities out there yeah everyone just
wants to enjoy comics we all just want
to do it well you know and as
i say there's phenomenal art out there and
there's sometimes stuff that isn't as uh
professional looking let's keep let's keep
it but you're still going on they're going
oh good for you
good for you you still you start somewhere
right you start somewhere yeah i mean i'll
say that like this isn't my first comic
i actually did do one in which was
a one-shot comic um and i haven't really
shared that very much because i'm not very
proud of the artwork in it but part
of me is thinking well maybe i should
put that on at least global comics or
do something with it just to show sort
of
how I've improved or how I think I've
changed and moved on.
That's one of my favorite things,
to be fair,
is when you see the person,
the story and the art evolve throughout
multiple issues.
Oh,
I think issue two of Legacy Idols and
Bones looks better than issue one.
And it's fascinating because I've
obviously,
I have got printed copies already and I
can't go back.
I haven't got time to go back.
But there's definitely pages in issue one
where like Claire and Dr.
Green are talking.
It's not good artwork.
You know, I had my comic sales,
but I definitely think, oh,
they're like bad.
But I do think what I'm doing now,
and I want to go back and change
it, but it's just like, no, look,
you've got to keep going, moving forward.
So I hope that, you know,
by the time I am on issue sort
of fives and six and things like that,
that maybe it doesn't represent, you know,
the artwork, how it looks in issue one.
But hopefully it's improved.
And also,
the other thing I'd actually like to say
is the story does go off in some
quite dark directions.
I mean, well,
it's certainly violent and things like
that.
But it goes off in some very dark
directions.
And I want to make sure that I'm
always interested in drawing the pages.
That means me trying different styles and
doing different things.
I'm going to do it.
Because why wouldn't I?
It's my comic.
That's what's great about it, right?
It ensures you do whatever the hell you
want.
Yeah.
So there is a good chance that certain
pages, as it goes on,
will not look the same as it did
in those first issues.
And I hope it does.
I want to try new things.
I want to keep being in it.
You don't evolve unless you do it, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And everybody wants to evolve.
I want to evolve and be a better...
know podcaster a creator i get every time
i do clips i get better and better
and better and you don't get better i'm
trying to sit down literally as i say
i'm home two days a week and look
at it as like okay i'll normally start
from about sort of eight o'clock in the
morning through until sort of five o'clock
in the afternoon um because that's when
i'm in the house by myself you know
i'm married and i've got not young kids
i've got daughters it difficult when
there's people around so i am like
like nine hours of the day,
I'm going to sit and draw.
And I do think that because I've now
solidly started doing that, yes,
I'm definitely improving.
If you can say that about yourself,
I think you can.
You can, a hundred percent.
My friend Matt, he's also gone, look,
I think this is a step up from
what you've done.
Dude,
my first show to where I am today
is night and day, a hundred percent.
Yeah.
And I'm incredibly excited.
of issue one i think you know i
got forty eight pages out and how many
people can say that you know it's this
thing but you know i i do think
it's improving and this stuff i'm i'm
definitely proud of some of those pages
like you said the widow maker page i'm
incredibly proud of dude certain pages
where um like jcbs are involved in the
beach scene that beach fight scene was
like insane too which is pretty true that
was drawn in like twenty twenty
Dude, that scene is insane.
It's bloody, it's violent,
it's disgusting.
It's everything you want in a comic book.
If you've got people out there that are
swinging punches that could take down a
mountain,
then no one's coming out with just a
black eye, you know?
No.
Like, his jaw got knocked the fuck off.
How about that?
The end of issue one.
But as you know, from reading issue one,
things happen to our our delightful hero
that that will definitely follow through
um through the entire series because you
don't walk away from a fight with a
giant monster with a couple of scratches
you know and you definitely proved that
and it was dude so in comic book
it it's one of those things where if
it's going to be extremely violent make it
extremely violent and bloody
Give me all the juicy bits, right?
Yeah.
But if you're making this slice of life
story, cool.
Yeah.
Perfect.
I like those two.
I want to make sure that – I
don't want to say what happens to him,
but – Don't spoil.
No spoilers.
But what happens to him I think is
what would happen to you if you were
fighting –
you know, this giant monster.
A hundred percent.
That's what you want to see though.
Yeah.
It isn't just violence for the sake of
violence.
And it's not just nudity for the sake
of nudity.
I do think that if you're in a
situation where, you know,
you're in a room and you're having sex
with a couple of women and taking drugs
and stuff,
there's probably going to be nudity
involved.
A hundred percent.
If it fits the story,
it fits the story.
If it's the, the,
the charm and allure of the story and
the, it works, it works.
Go with it.
Right.
Talking about that though.
So as I say, issue one is on,
um, global, global comics.
And we were going to talk about the
Kickstarter itself.
And normally I asked, you know,
why crowdfunded?
I'm not going to,
on global comics i've only ever had one
guy coming comments to one and it's
actually seven hundred people read it but
and i know people don't often comment but
i don't comment on things i have one
guy comment on it and he said um
the artwork isn't very good or something
like that and i was just like okay
i'm i'm just i'm just a guy who's
trying to make it but you know you
are welcome to your opinion and he replied
back saying
for a raunchy comic your art isn't good
enough and in my head i was like
it's not a raunchy comic that was what
i took from that i was like you
think yeah comic no it's a comic that
has violence it has sex it has profanity
But it's not a raunchy comic.
Yeah.
I didn't take that from it.
So I don't know what the hell he
was thinking.
Yeah.
I just found that really weird.
I'm like, no, this isn't.
I think he went into it expecting it
to be a more not safe for work
type of comic book.
And then when he didn't get that,
he felt the need to say, oh,
it's not raunchy enough and the art sucks.
Yeah.
And I just.
That's not what this comic book is.
You just got to laugh it off.
You just got to go.
You really do.
Because if you,
if you took everything to heart,
you would never make art.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I know I'm not a professional comic book
artist and I wish I had put more
effort in,
in my twenties and maybe I could have
been there,
but I'm going to keep doing it and
I'm going to keep putting the effort in
now and see where it takes me.
No, a hundred percent.
And I've enjoyed, like I said,
I enjoyed the hell out of issue one.
I think other people who enjoy a comic
book for what it is,
which in this instance is a bloody
violent,
not safe for work scenario type of book.
So if that's what you're into,
then that's what you're into.
Then you will definitely enjoy this book.
If you're a big fan of the boys,
you're going to love this comic book.
Yeah.
I think I need to go back and
properly read The Boys one day, I think,
because I've read sort of three or four
issues and I've watched the entire series.
What I'd say about the series of The
Boys, as much as I enjoy it,
a lot of the violence in it often
feels like they're just doing violence.
Yeah.
That's what I'm saying about this comic is
it is incredibly violent and it has got
blood and guts and gore.
but it's because of what is happening to
that person.
And then what are the consequences of
what, of that violence, you know,
and it's still fun.
I want people to, and it's, I think,
I don't know how long it took you
to read it.
I don't think it's a long read.
I think it's not a very long read.
You read through it in like, ten,
fifteen minutes.
But a lot,
I think still a lot happens in it.
And even issue two, which will only be,
um, twenty-four pages of story.
Um,
I'm not great at getting loads of dialogue
in there.
I'm not, you know,
people having huge conversations.
I want their actions to push the narrative
forward.
Well,
that's what I always say is the art
tells the story.
The words push the story along.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's what a comic book is.
If you're going to a comic book to
read a full narrative story,
like you would in a book,
you're looking at a comic book for the
wrong reason.
You're looking at the comic book because
the art is telling the story in the
words or pushing the narrative of that
art.
Yeah.
I think as part of me, you know,
you want to build your audience.
I'd love to obviously have a massive
audience following and you think, well,
maybe I should go on Twitch or something
like that.
and, you know, draw pages on there.
But I'm always sort of like, well,
if it's just a page of people talking
without the dialogue on it,
who's going to want to watch it?
You'd be surprised.
And if it's a page where there's massive
action and consequences,
I'm giving plot away.
Yeah, you don't want to do that.
So I'm still sort of very hesitant about,
you know,
sitting there and doing any sort of live
drawing stuff.
I know there's a lot of big name
comic book artists out there that they
have YouTube channels where they do the
art tutorials and they just draw and show
people how they draw characters.
And it's really fun to watch them,
just the precision they have with a pen
or a pencil.
Yeah.
I mean, maybe I could sort of,
I still need to obviously do covers and
things.
So maybe I could start,
try doing something like that.
But let's talk about the Kickstarter.
The Kickstarter is live now.
It goes until the twentieth of this month.
So there's about six days left.
Yeah, a week today.
So I'm in the UK, obviously.
I think it ends,
I think I've got it ending at ten
o'clock Saturday morning.
So it was only a twelve day Kickstarter.
And again,
this is through talking to friends of
mine.
who have done previous ones,
and this is mostly being able to come
onto podcasts like this and other things
I've done.
I want to be able to push, push,
push, push,
push the whole time that it's on
Kickstarter.
And if I'm going thirty days,
I just feel like maybe by day sixteen,
seventeen,
people are just going to get pissed off.
I don't think so.
I really don't.
In twelve days,
I feel like you're selling yourself just a
little bit short.
Don't get me wrong.
I'd love it if that doubled right now.
That'd be amazing.
But yeah,
I just wanted to sort of be able
to push it really hard for ten to
twelve days.
And there's certain days when I'm at home
and I wanted to make sure I was
at home on the days that it started.
So I was just trying to be around
for that.
But I'm still blown away when you
obviously have friends and family that put
money towards these things.
But just to see, like,
I don't know who this person is and
they've just pledged money towards
something I've done.
which goes back to people drawing your own
characters,
just to see people where you go,
I don't know this person,
and they've just put money towards,
they've looked at what I've done and gone,
I want to support that.
And that, again,
just blows me away because it's just,
you know.
It's amazing, right?
Dude,
that's me every time I get a new
guest on this show,
that this person is putting their trust
and faith in me to deliver them a
show.
and to have them on the show and
that they're trusting me to come on my
show to talk about what they're selling.
I get the same feeling every time.
It's amazing.
So I am very pleased with how Kickstarter
is going.
I kept it quite a low amount.
I figured out what my print costs were
going to be for the various items.
I'm hopeful that it will cover it.
I was more interested in reaching an
achievable goal
than completely worrying about,
is it going to cover all my costs?
Because let's face it,
most of us are doing this for the
passion of doing it rather than making
money.
Oh, yeah.
Don't get me wrong.
I wish I was making money.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
At some point,
I was going to knock on my door
and offer me money for the IP.
But as of yet, wow.
But walk us through your Kickstarter and
what people can expect from your
Kickstarter,
like any goals that you have and anything
else that they may be interested in.
I'm trying to keep it like really as
simple as possible.
So obviously issue one is already out,
but I always want to make sure that
people can get hold of previous copies.
So I think this being issue two,
I think there's a PDF of issue two,
a PDF of issues one and two.
printed copy of issue two and a printed
copy of issues one and two and then
i'm doing uh foil art prints which is
um the front cover of issue one and
then there's not suitable for work front
cover of issue one that i've got printing
on them bookmarks and stickers like vinyl
little vinyl stickers of the logo eidolons
chest logo and the caucus skull.
So three separate stickers.
So that's its own, uh, uh, pledge thing.
Um,
and then one where you can appear in
the comic, uh,
which have only got three spaces.
Cause obviously you've got to find a page
where you can actually have people on it.
Yeah.
um and two of those have already gone
so there's one of them left which i
think is like fifty quid i really just
wanted to keep it as absolutely as simple
as possible um because i'm a guy that
just wants to read comics and generally
i'm not that i don't i know people
a lot of people out there like varying
covers i don't give a shit about varying
covers generally um i want to read a
comic and i guess maybe that's because i
i would only pick up
not only just a trade,
but if there was a cover I like,
I'll pick that one up.
But I'm not worried about that.
I won't do variant covers.
I will put a variant of the artwork
in the comic.
So issue two,
both issue one and issue two and issue
three when I get it done,
there is like a not suitable for work
variant version of that cover artwork,
but it's not going to be a variant
comic.
It will just be on the inside back
page.
There'll be
the sort of version of it.
Yeah, I just do as possible and go,
look, if you want to read a comic,
pledge here.
And I'll do my best to keep the
prices as low as possible.
So I know the pound prices.
I don't know the dollar, I'm afraid.
But I think issue two,
I'm doing for like three quid.
And obviously, if that's a PDF,
then you're not paying any postage.
What's that going to be like?
Four dollars, I think, maybe?
Yeah, I think just shy of four dollars.
for a thirty-two page comic.
You know, I'm doing my... Yeah,
a thirty-two page comic in the comic book
shop is going to rain and eat nearly
nothing.
While I'm, you know,
I have got another job and that brings
enough in for me to get by,
I'm like, look,
I just want people to read this.
And this is again why we talked about
being on Global Comics because like seven
hundred people have read it on Global
Comics, which, you know, is pence,
dollars, cents.
But it's, how do you get that exposure,
you know?
You're getting it from Kickstarter.
But let's start closing this out.
Who is Legacy for?
For me.
Dude, I love that fucking answer,
to be fair to you.
At the end of the day,
who are we doing this for?
Obviously, yeah, completely to get it out,
get that little niggle out,
lack of my brain.
I want it out there,
but also I want people to read it.
I've been asked this before, and...
It's a mature reader comic for all the
reasons that we've discussed.
When she read the first issue,
my daughter was sixteen, and I was like,
do you want to read the first issue?
And there was stuff in there she didn't
particularly appreciate,
as you can imagine.
Of course, yeah.
But I do think a sixteen-year-old is...
I think her as a sixteen-year-old was
mentally capable of reading it.
I think there are possibly
sixteen-year-olds out there that aren't
mentally capable.
There are twenty-five-year-olds out there
that aren't mentally capable of reading
it.
But it's certainly aimed at I would hope
I think it's going to help if you're
a comic reader.
If you're like me,
you've grown up reading superheroes and
maybe you're a little bit jaded by
by the fact that it never ends.
I want someone to come in,
I want those readers to come in and
go, this is different.
This is the superhero that I've been
wanting to read for the last few years
and I haven't seen it elsewhere.
And I'm not here to say there aren't
other Kickstarters and other indie comics
out there like that.
There probably are because I'm not reading
all.
I don't think I've reinvented the wheel
here, not at all.
But I certainly think that what I've
created
if you've been reading comics a long time
and you're just sort of like, oh,
I can't read another Spider-Man,
I can't read it, not because they're bad,
but because it feels like I've been doing
it since I was a teen,
this is where you come.
You come to Legacy Idols and Bones because
what happens to these characters will stay
happened to these characters.
No magic healing overnight.
Yeah,
and it's going to be consequences for
everything.
As I say,
even that kids menu that you see in
the first issue,
That's got a lot more to it than
it just being a kid's menu.
You will see little things like that will
come back in issue three that I'm working
on now.
That's freaking awesome, dude,
that you're maintaining continuity
throughout each one and not just like, oh,
he had an arm ripped off.
Well, it did happen in issue two.
No,
you're still seeing those effects in issue
two.
So that's really cool that you're doing
that.
But Gary,
plug your work for everybody so they know
where to find you.
So as we say,
it's on Kickstarter at the moment.
So if you search for legacy iris and
bones,
it would come up and it is issue.
The Kickstarter is issue two,
but obviously it is issues one and two.
So chances are that, you know,
if you haven't read issue one,
which the vast majority of the population,
then go to Kickstarter and get both of
them.
If you are on Global Comics,
then issue one, again,
just search for Legacy Isles Bones.
issue one is on there i'm going to
be completely honest i'm not going to put
issue two on for a good few months
yet um i want the kickstarter to really
have you know had the chance to do
well and i don't want people to think
well i won't do the kickstarter because
i'll just read it on global comics yeah
you know i'm gonna leave that a couple
of months it will go on there but
just not straight away but i will i
will keep adding to global comics um i'd
created a Facebook group.
I was quite specific to create a Facebook
group, not Facebook page,
because I want conversation.
You know, if I did it,
I'm the only person that can post on
it.
Whereas if it's a Facebook group,
I want the people that have read it.
And even if you didn't like it,
just post, you know, on it.
And, you know,
I want conversation on there.
So I'm really hoping that when, you know,
issue two lands and people's emails are on
their doorstep,
I am going to be sort of like,
look,
what'd you think of it?
Get onto the Facebook page.
Yeah.
Uh, there's a,
I've got an Instagram for it.
So I'm sharing, uh,
images and things on there as well.
Um, yeah,
just trying to get in your old blue
sky as Gary Sears, blue sky.
I mean, cause I have, so I have,
um,
uh on instagram obviously got a gary
seawood instagram and then i've got some
bones instagram uh on blue sky i've only
got blue sky so you might see a
picture of like my dog or something like
that yeah hey i share my cats all
the time it's no wrong with it but
gary i want to say thank you for
coming on man it was been a blast
pleasure i love talking comics and i don't
have
uh really any comic book friends you got
my instagram and you got my facebook so
feel free to hit us by people time
you want to talk about not just my
comic but just to talk comics i could
sit here for like ten hours with you
mate but take some more whatever it is
But, yeah, dude, don't be afraid.
Hit us up.
We'll talk about comic books all day.
Issue three in another four months or so,
and I'll be back on again.
Let's do it.
Hey, shoot me a message.
You know how to do it now?
I will do it.
I've got your email.
Perfect.
Thank you.
So every universe begins somewhere,
sometimes with the questions,
sometimes with a sketch,
sometimes with the creator deciding that
the story they've carried for years
deserves to finally exist.
Legacy,
Idols and Bones is more than a comic.
It's a commitment to building something
lasting in a space where indie voices
continue to redefine what modern mythology
looks like.
Gary, again,
thank you for bringing us into your world
and to everyone watching.
If you believe in universes,
bold storytelling,
and the future of indie comics,
support the mission, join the legacy.
The Council of Nerds is adjourned.
This has been the United States Department
of Nerds, where indie comics come to life.
Y'all be safe and happy Valentine's Day.
Thank you.
Gary.