Innovative Techniques in Dyslexia Support with Rose Picard

In this episode, Craig Randall talks with Rose Picard, a dedicated reading literacy specialist at the Briarwood School in Houston, Texas, about trust-based observations, individualized education plans, and effective classroom management for students with learning disabilities.

What is 20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance (On the Road with Trust-Based Observations)?

On the road training schools in Trust-Based Observations trainings, we periodically see absolute teaching brilliance during our 20-minute observations. It dawned on us that we have an obligation to share this brilliance with all teachers so they can learn and grow from one another. Each episode is an interview with one of these teachers where we explore their strengths as they share their tips and tricks. Tips and tricks that definitely lead to improved teaching and learning.

Welcome to 20 minutes of teaching brilliance on the road with Trust Based Observations.

Every week while training school leaders, Craig Randall, the developer of Trust Based Observations, witnesses brilliant teaching during their 20 minute observations.

Wanting to share that teaching brilliance with others, we talk shop with those teachers, learning what they do that is so impactful.

We hope you enjoy.

Craig: Hi, and welcome to another edition of 20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance on the Road with trust-based observations.

A couple, three weeks ago, I was in Houston, Texas at the Briarwood School, which is a really interesting school because it's a school that specializes in kids with with learning disabilities.

I'll let Rose maybe dig more into that than when she has a chance to explain herself.

It was a fantastic week of learning from me.

And I remember being Rose's class and there were so many amazing things that I saw.

I won't tip my hand too much because I just wanna let it unfold during the course of our conversation.

But Rose PCard is third, fourth reading literacy specialist at this school.

And so, rose, would you introduce yourself to the audience?

Maybe tell 'em a little bit about yourself, maybe how you got into teaching, whatever you want to tell us.

Rose Picard: Hi, I. So I am Rose PCard.

I got into teaching originally.

My parents had really high hopes.

I was supposed to be like a neuroscientist or a forensic specialist.

I even toured colleges.

I convinced my parents that I would give the medical field a try.

And so I started college as a nursing major.

I was a nursing major for three whole weeks.

When I came to terms with not liking biology, so I went back to the drawing board.

I've always been drawn to helping and being a part of.

Positive momentum and teaching just kind of fit that bill for me.

So I went to the University of Louisiana Lafayette and I did early childhood education, so pre-K three and then later, after about two years of teaching in public school in HIC Houston Independent School District, I went back to.

Get my master's and I did the University of Texas at Rio Grande Valley for reading Masters, a reading masters, and then I got a additional year for reading specialist.

So lots of years in the classroom being a learner.

And so far I have seven years under my belt as a teacher.

Craig: And then talk.

Talk to us a little bit about Briarwood and how you ended up there and what you're doing there.

Rose Picard: So my first job, I moved to Houston, to u have my first job that was at an HISD school, but it was a.

IB School and International Baccalaureate School.

So the teaching was not traditional classroom.

It was very learner based, very what our students need based and our lessons adapted to the kids we were teaching, which I really loved.

And I had a fabulous principal for three years, and then he retired as they do.

And then my second principal.

Was not so much present in the classroom, and I quickly realized that was something I needed as a professional.

I needed to feel like my boss was investing in me.

So after two years, I left.

So I did a total five years at that school and I found Briarwood, thank goodness.

And it had all of my professional shopping lists, right?

And just my heart and helping people and being part of the success and the momentum, the positive momentum.

I always had that class where the school wouldn't know where to put this kid that's gonna struggle.

It doesn't qualify or something's going on, but we're not sure yet, you know, kind of kiddo.

I had them in my class every year.

Like the year that I left HISD, that class I had about 15 IEPs and five oh fours in a class of 25.

Craig: Wow.

Rose Picard: and that was heavy, but it was just like, those are my people.

Right.

So B Briarwood just was like, well, I'm already doing that.

It's just I already have that population.

I already have experience with this population and I'm passionate about reading.

So it just made sense to try and bring into an even smaller environment that passion with that population.

So

Briarwood was just kind of the next most reasonable step for me.

But we are a school.

that caters to students.

So to get into our school, you do have to have like a learning based disability.

So generally it's around 80% students with dyslexia.

We have a high A DHD population and a bunch of other comorbidities of course, that just kind of come along with the fun.

But a majority of our students are dyslexic.

So my people.

Craig: Thanks.

Let's dig into it then, because really what we saw was what I felt like a masterclass in, in reading while we were there and when we went in, there was really a, there was a warmup activity going on while you were doing individual reading assessments with the students and you also had a pretty interesting tracking system that we saw.

And so do you just want to talk a little bit about that?

How you organize your class how you build all that stuff in together?

Him.

Rose Picard: So.

I would say like, how it got built in is just continuous failures along the way.

Like, oh, that didn't work.

Oh, that fell apart.

Oh, that didn't, yeah.

But eventually I did find like of course the school puts requirements on the teacher.

Like, you need to get these steps done.

You need to get these things done.

There's no perfect way.

Like one solution I got to do, like da, like the data assessment was like, oh, just take them outta specials.

And I was like, no, that's their one time they could play.

That's their one time they could like be a kid.

You know, we have a really rigorous school, so I wanted to keep that sacred time.

So what I went ahead and did was I was like, okay, what can I do when my kiddos, how can I keep them busy when I'm still working on something, but keep it still purposeful?

I don't wanna just give them busy work.

So what I'm doing when I'm doing the fluency assessment is I have we utilize a program on our campus called acadis, and it's looking for the oral reading fluency, the errors the retelling.

It's looking for those things.

It's also doing a maze assessment.

And it's just a way for us to data track where they are in their skillset.

Because our kids, we are a remediation school.

We know like a majority of our kids are not gonna meet grade level benchmark, but we still have to take it further.

We're test testing them against benchmark three times a year.

And then I am going further and doing progress monitoring.

Continuously.

So in a two week period, I'm reading three times a week or three times with each kid.

And the progress monitoring is more based on where they are personally in their journey.

So I can track that they are making a progression on their journey.

Yeah, so using Acadis and using our other assessments, that's how I'm.

Figuring out what to, what the reading passage should be.

But the first time aca, the first read aca, I'm logging it in Acadian, but the second and third time I'm logging it just for myself.

And those particularly, I'm looking for the ell for the first read, and then I'm looking for that reading rate, that accuracy and, yeah, the words correct in the, that word accuracy.

That's what I'm looking for when I'm doing the fluency reads.

But we are also continuously doing mazes and such.

Go ahead

Craig: So really what I'm hearing you say is you've got these standardized tests, but you're saying, look, that's not enough.

I need to be knowing where my kids are at all the time.

And so.

Three times every two weeks.

I'm coming in and I'm doing this beyond that because I need to, I'm informatively assessing you.

I'm checking for your understanding in all these areas and I'm really have a concrete system of tracking it.

So then I can also know how do I adapt or differentiate or find a way to make each one of my kids continue to make progress forward.

Rose Picard: Right, right.

Well, and in our school, again, like I feel like it's really important to know who our kids are, what population we serve.

Like if I'm just looking three times a year.

Those gaps are only gonna get wider unless I'm addressing that specific gap with that specific kid.

Right?

Because it's not just a general like, I need to do, I need to do magic E you know, not everybody needs magic E or whatever you wanna call it.

Yeah, so just making sure like they are making positive progress on their personal trajectory.

That's the most important thing at the end of the day.

Yeah.

I love that you liked my chart so much.

It's literally just a table where I have, like, I, it was like a sheets for Google and I just listed each child in their class and it just first read, second read, third read, and I left a little space in each spot.

That way I could record that data.

So I could do just a quick look, you know, what was their words?

Correct?

What was their accuracy?

What was their fluency rate?

And then I'm just recording like what?

Assessment I used with them.

So I can quickly just go back and say, well, they're working on level one passages and generally they're doing reading rate of so and so, words per minute with an accuracy of so and so, right?

Craig: Also but I think even more than that.

I mean, I think you're underselling it in some ways, because I think more than that though, it's also, it's informing what you're doing next when somebody's not progressing it the way you want.

Right?

If you did it once every three, three times a year.

I mean, even in a regular classroom, we could have MI misses, but in this kind of a setting, you're gonna have even more misses.

And then it's like it not too late, but it's like, now what do I do?

But because you're seeing it so frequently and you're tracking it, so specifically look, not with every kid, but when then you see, wait, something's off here, then that allows you to then.

Get whatever differentiated or adapted support that's personalized to that student in a way where you wouldn't be able to do that if you weren't tracking it in such a key systematic way.

Rose Picard: Right.

Well, and I never wanna be that teacher where they bomb the test.

You know, that I do like two times a year and I'm like, well, they must have been having a bad day.

You know, like I wanna have data that I can go back and say, no.

They have a record of all of these great days, and then this was literally a one bad day, or no, they've been on this track for a while and we should have been doing something right.

Craig: But you don't have to let it get there too long because, you know, so if you see a

Rose Picard: Right.

Craig: over two weeks, you're gonna jump in.

And that's what's so key to me is about what you're doing is if you're not doing that in that detail with those kids, then you can't make that adjustment like a, oh, I've got a pattern here.

We, we need to make an adjustment.

You're not gonna be able to see it in the same way.

And because you're doing an individualized base, it's it's super impressive.

I'm gonna move forward with that a little bit because I think that like as you're doing that, because you've got, like you said, you're very purposely designing something meaningful for the kids to work on with their reading while you're doing this at in the warmup activity period of the day.

I don't mean to minimize it by calling it a warmup activity, but I don't have better words.

So, but while you're doing that, like.

You have to be also keenly aware of what's going on with everything else in the classroom and like watching your relationships and behavior management with the kids, like as all that was happening was astounding to me.

Robert Marzano has a term called with itness, and we always describe it as that teacher that has the eyes in the back of their head.

And I was watching and there was one.

One student you were reading with and this other boy like comes up with his iPad and like without missing a beat, you say whatever needs to be said to the kid with the iPad.

It took about five seconds, we're right back to the other kid.

Like without missing it.

And even as you're reading, doing that, I'm watching your eyes and you're seeing.

And making little comments when you need to along the way.

And you've probably also built in clear expectations and routines and all those different things along the way.

So they are acting with agency while this other piece of reading assessment is going on, would you mind talking about just the relationships, behavior management, all that and how that connects to everything?

Rose Picard: Yeah.

So, in college I was literally told by professor she gave me a c and she told me.

She gave me a C on an assignment, I'll be more specific.

And she said, you'll never be a good teacher if you can't figure out your management.

So I, yeah, and I was like, that's totally fair.

You know, like it hurt hearing it when it happens.

And I was like, okay, like this is gonna run me or I'm gonna run it and let's figure it out.

So again, like it was really digging in after that point.

I was really digging in when I went to classrooms, what works, what doesn't work.

When I went to other people's classrooms to observe, you know, as a college student, and then when I was, you know, in my own classroom, I was never afraid to ask a question to another teacher like, Hey, you seem way more successful than I am.

How are you doing this?

So.

That management piece is always been really big to me.

I, I firmly believe learning doesn't happen until the kids feel secure.

If they feel like they're in a safe space long enough to, you know, stop and listen and learn, then we'll be successful.

So with that, yeah, like the first two weeks look like learning the routines and learning.

Learning the expectations, but I feel like that's time well spent.

I would say by the first month kids had a clear expectation, like they know what my to-dos are first thing, and then I also make sure it's listed, you know, it's on my board and you know, it becomes a, well, it's on the board, check the board or ask a friend or they're not just gonna be.

Out of luck.

If they don't know what to do, they have options.

But with it being repetitive and you know, it becomes safe.

They know like their parameters so they can still stay successful.

That relationship piece I feel like as a person, relationships, sir. I hate to say it like on a podcast, but I'm like, relationships are more and more than academics.

Like I feel like that's where it comes in, you know, that safety, that security that human to human connection, I think that really plays a big part.

Like if you don't feel like, if you're afraid to dialogue with me, how am I going to be able to tell what you are thinking and where you are in your learning?

If I can't get it?

You and assumptions can be made if you don't stop.

And pick a kid's brain.

Especially our population

Craig: Yeah.

Rose Picard: you know, kiddos with dyslexia.

I feel like so many kids and you can pick 'em out when they're new to our school.

'cause you're just like, oh, you've learned to be helpless.

Let me wake you up here.

'Cause I'm just like, you're not helpless.

You're not dumb.

You're not.

You're not going to be successful.

I will not allow you to not be successful.

So it's a lot of observation, like where is the thing going wrong for them?

But also why can, like, let's get you to think this out.

So you have, you see yourself as a problem solver so you can figure it out on your own.

I'm here to help, but I'm not here to, I'm not your mom.

I don't do, I don't do your life for you, so we gotta get you there.

Especially as like third graders and fourth graders.

You know, I love my kiddos.

I really do.

And like, I just, I have a high expectations for them and.

You know, when they come to our school, you can really tell like their background, like who had high expectations for them and who didn't and who said that's good enough 'cause you're different or yeah, no, I it's a push, it's a

Craig: so much to unpack there.

I mean, the river thing I heard you say was, it was trial and error and learning from failure

Rose Picard: well, and they're doing

Craig: but I, but you said like you're curious and you have a growth mindset, so you go ahead.

Rose Picard: I think it just

Craig: You curious, a, a growth mindset?

Like at you when you see somebody that's got more than you do, like.

Being willing to be vulnerable and ask and learn from that person.

And then that's huge.

It's huge when you're a young teacher.

It's even huge when you're an experienced teacher.

And so having that mindset to start with, I think led you on the path to understanding the importance of, and that professor's worship about the importance of relationships though, because.

you said like Maslow's hierarchy, really?

You didn't say it, but you're saying without them feeling safe at first, nothing else is really gonna get us there.

So you're working to do that.

You're saying you're you've, you're working on creating a safe learning environment, the importance of building them up.

But you're also saying, I have really high expectations for you and I'm relentless in saying.

I'm not gonna accept anything from your best, and I'm gonna do all these steps to teach you there, which include organizing my classroom, but getting to know and understand each individual student, so I know
how to build that with instances where I have to build them up as opposed to the ones where they've been set up to like, oh it's okay that that because of your disability to have lower expectations for you.

Which like how mind-numbingly irritating is that, but.

Anything you wanna add to?

Rose Picard: I also think part of the withitness so.

I feel like it's kind of a common, like it's a joke at Briarwood.

Like if you have dyslexia, you probably also work at Briarwood.

I happen to have, you know, like a DHD, right?

So I'm constantly moving.

I'm constantly thinking and pushing and like, you know, my mind is pretty restless.

So if you feel like part of that withitness is like, if I'm restless, you're restless.

So it's a constant, kids are busy, like even when there's nothing else going, you know, no like diagnosis or anything, but it's like kids are busy and so it's like you have to stay, you have to stay on them because they're busy little bodies and if they don't direct that energy somewhere positive, it go somewhere negative very quickly.

But I think that's part of just the having constant eyes on them.

It's because their little ping pong balls just.

Ping pong around and I just want them to stay in this area.

Yeah.

Craig: And that helps you to focus them by watching them and being so keenly aware, then I know I'm keeping you on track because it's about learning, but in a supportive environment with high expectations.

Yep.

Alright, let's move on to then.

I think one of the other really cool things I saw was then it was you were reading a story to the kids and, and you had your think bubble.

I'm not gonna spoil what that is.

But will you talk about what you're doing when you read with the kids as well and all the, especially all the, let's even add to that, like the descriptive progress feedback that you're doing, not just through that part, but when you're asking questions always to have the kids find their own answers.

So I know I'm asking a bunch of things here, but this, I'm just gonna let you go.

Rose Picard: Okay.

Yeah, that was a lot of questions.

So I would say the questioning, 'cause it's come up a few times, in observations and stuff.

A lot of people will notice when they come and observe in my room.

I don't like making statements.

Generally, like when we're communicating.

I don't like to make statements 'cause I feel like that's an assumption, like I'm assuming we're on the same page.

And again students with dyslexia are like highly brilliant.

Like they're highly intelligent kiddos.

And then just some things that they come that come out of their mouth, they're like, what?

Like, we're on totally different pages here.

So I like to just continuously be probing and probing and probing and I feel like that IB background I was fortunate to have.

IB is all about kids building their understanding.

Through questioning.

And so I feel like that just really lent itself really nicely into the reading classroom, because reading is transactionary, right?

What I get from the story and what you get from the story, we're gonna be two different, we're gonna be in two different camps.

And in order for me to know what you're getting, I need to continuously be asking questions and seeing where you're planted.

And then of course, that.

Zone of proximal development.

Well, let me push your thinking here.

You know, how about have you thought of this?

And then again, 'cause I'm teaching students that are like learning to read, there is this transit transition period where they're going from just like trying to read the words to like, like reading, to comprehend.

And of course like comprehension should always be like our goal, right?

But getting them to like stop and slow down and sit with a text that's hard and getting them to, you know, and so I do it by like, continuous questioning.

Well, have you thought of this?

What do you think the character's thinking?

How do you think the character's feeling?

Just like those continuous I don't wanna say I'm like, there's a barrage of questions, but it is like a continuous.

Metacognition that I think I'm just trying to build within them.

And that curiosity of text that a majority of my kiddos just wanna like, pick up a book, read the book, be done with the book.

They've met that requirement and just won't let that happen.

Craig: Well, and I think if we're talking about, if we're informatively assessing and then we're providing descriptive progress feedback to help them with the next steps in their learning.

I mean, there's three types.

There's basic, where I'm giving you the answer, there's instructional where I'm giving you that little hint or tip or bit of instruction and.

The one that, not that the others don't have value, but the one that has the most value, that has the most impact on students' learning and pushing them is when we have questions, because then they find the answer on their own.

Rose Picard: I definitely I wanna go back to like that feeling successful piece.

You definitely want them to feel successful a majority of the time.

Like I do give them like sentence stems or like thought starters.

Or even the thought bubble.

It's literally like, like a thought, like a cartoony comic book, thought bubble, and it just says, think do.

And I have a heart that says feel.

And it's, I feel like it's a way for us to step into like the characters.

Like if I were this person, how do you think I would feel in that visual of connecting like.

Not just my thoughts, let me think of someone else's thoughts.

Let me take their perspective.

Craig: I just wanna, I wanna unpack just what this looks like for the, I just wanna

Rose Picard: gosh.

Okay.

Craig: for because what we're talking about is you literally have, like, I don't know if whether they're old hard stock things that you've laminated but in essence, like we all know the little thought bubble that comes out if somebody's head in a cartoon and you literally have created hard copies of those that you hand, that you hold up.

When you're asking that question, if you want them to think before they answer or you want them to feel what that person, what would guess, what that person would be feeling, and that visual of that is so, so powerful and it's, I just thought it was so clever and I think lots of people are gonna wanna learn more about that as well.

Because it's just such a clever idea.

And I also just wanna say on think time before I let you go forward is that when we ask questions as teachers, I don't see us provide enough time to let kids think before they answer.

We just ask and let kids respond right away.

And that bubble also serves the purpose of Dov, of giving everyone a little bit of time.

Okay.

Now that they have a little clearer idea on what that is, you keep going.

Rose Picard: So think time.

I had like my first year of teaching in ib, I had a fabulous mentor.

And she,

this is, this sounds harsh, but she was like, you give them enough think time to where you start seeing them squirm a little bit.

Like, like they're just like itching to tell you, like, that's how, you know, they have something to say.

And so like, I don't know, the squirming seems a little mean, but you know, like giving them that, that opportunity to sit and think with it.

And I think especially with like a more impulsive population, like students with A DHD and they're in every class, you know.

The second they blurted out, like they, they blurred out the first thing they thought of.

It's not finessed, it's not thought out, it's the first thing they thought of.

But their thinking's done, their trail's done.

But also everyone else in the class is now also done.

So like thinking stops if the blurting is happening.

Unfortunately, a lot of the time that's what I've seen.

So like getting them to sit in it and think on it and giving them that process time, that processing time, it, you know, it allows those kids with those processing deficits, that chance to process.

It gives those impulsive kids a chance to sit and think it through a little bit more.

Yeah.

So it gives everybody that opportunity to share.

Their best thought that they're ready to share.

Is it a hundred percent successful?

Absolutely not.

Craig: No but I really like your, I like your point on two parts.

One, not just the kids that are maybe processed at a different rate.

It gives them a chance, but I like that other part that it gives those that are the quick processors chance to maybe I. Delve into their answer to keep them thinking as opposed to you said, then that thinking just stops.

So I really like you added that part in as well.

Rose, I think there're gonna be people that are gonna want to maybe reach out and learn from you.

Do you have contact information that you'd be willing to share with our listeners, which will also be in the show notes?

Everyone.

Rose Picard: Absolutely.

So my email is RP card like R-P-I-C-A-R-D at briarwood, B-R-I-A-R-W-O-O-D dot briarwood school.org.

And I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have.

Craig: Yeah.

Thank you, rose.

I really appreciate it and I'm so grateful for you coming on today and joining us.

It was a pleasure, an absolute pleasure to get to watch you work and so I'm glad we were able to have a chance to talk about it today.

Have a great day.

Rose Picard: Thank you.

You too.

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