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Interviews and conversations with the most prolific and talented audio drama creators.
Craig Hart [00:00:18]:
Well, hello there, everybody, and welcome to another episode of audio drama Insiders, affectionately known as ADI or Adi or Adai. We have we'll we'll figure that out and and check back with you, but I'm here with my trusty cohost, Trisha Rose. Trisha, how are you today?
Trisha [00:00:36]:
Hi. I'm doing great. Yeah. So I've spent the earlier part of the day Trying to decide if designing Christmas wrapping paper would be financially profitable and decided that wasn't a good idea, but Audio drama is always a good idea.
Craig Hart [00:00:54]:
Yes. Profitable or otherwise, which is a subject of our whole another show. But I'm happy to be back on the episode and even happier to have our our current guest, Matthew P. Woerner from, Audio Imagination 77 Productions. Thank you, Matthew, for joining us.
Matthew [00:01:11]:
Oh, thank you guys so much for having me. I'm a huge fan.
Craig Hart [00:01:14]:
I wanna start out asking you if there is a story behind the name of your company, because I've always found that
Matthew [00:01:20]:
Honestly, no.
Craig Hart [00:01:22]:
Oh, no. I wanted
Matthew [00:01:23]:
so much to do. No. What I meant to say was yes. I was Hiking the Himalayas and no. I when I started this project, I just kinda thought to myself, alright. Let's let's kind of come up with a crafty name, and I was like, well, it's All about audio and then, something I've always been told since I was a child was I have a really good imagination, And then I was born in 1977 to age myself. Okay.
Craig Hart [00:01:57]:
That's a
Matthew [00:01:58]:
good option. Audio Imagination 77.
Craig Hart [00:02:00]:
Well, I wanna talk about, one of your more recent productions, operator. But before we get that get to that, it's a question I like to ask a lot of audio drama producers because it seems like the audio drama industry is starting to take off a bit more. So what do you as an audio drama producer see as the unique strengths of audio drama compared to other formats.
Matthew [00:02:23]:
I I see it from 2 sides. I see it from the side of the creator, and I see it also from the side of the listener. And something that I've always found Absolutely fascinating about audio dramas, and I've been listening to old time radio since I was 8 years old, So it's kind of been in my life almost forever, but, the fact that as the creator. We get to create these worlds for our audience to enjoy, And we have the power of creating the world and the story and the characters and the scenario, but then on the listener's side, I love the fact that As a listener, we get to decide what everything looks like and who is talking to us as the listener. So it's almost like a partnership, Whereas we get to create, and then the listener gets to kind of decide. So that's what I think is super special about, audio plays because Not anyone who listens to them, chances are, are gonna see them or hear them the same way as the next person. I think that's super special. Whereas a movie or television, it's all done for us.
Craig Hart [00:03:34]:
Right. Yeah. If you see something different, Completely different in, like, a television show. You might actually be a psycho. Right. That wasn't in there at all, sir.
Matthew [00:03:43]:
Yeah. Absolutely, it wasn't.
Craig Hart [00:03:47]:
So but turning to, to your most recent production, which was great by the way.
Matthew [00:03:53]:
Thank you.
Craig Hart [00:03:53]:
Operator. This provides a Fascinating twist on the classic War of the World story, tells it from the perspective of telephone operators. What inspired you to take this unique approach?
Matthew [00:04:06]:
Back in 2021 when I finished A Gift, I think I Was like, I don't know if I can do anything more creative than that, and I thought I kind of peeked out. And then I had remembered seeing this documentary about 5 years earlier, which, was I think it was done back in 1988. It was an AT and T special, about that night from the and they had 4 telephone operators from different states, on talking about that night. And I remember when I first saw it thinking, how come no one has ever done a story, a, based around the war of the world, certainly that I know of because a lot of companies redo it, but not make up a story around the incident. And then the other thing was, if you think about these telephone operators were Kinda the frontline. They were the kind of the heroes of that night keeping people calm because I think a huge misconception is is that Everyone assumes that a telephone operator just connected person a to person b, but that was it was such a bigger job than that. It was Giving them information if required. It was sometimes it would be just giving them the time of day and the weather and the this they were kind of pretty much the Internet of the day.
Matthew [00:05:27]:
And so it was their job to keep people calm and try and inform them as much as possible. And I thought, how come Nothing has ever been done around these amazing heroes and also to think about 1938 and the fact that it was women because they were not, You know, really regarded on a very high high level back then. It was mostly the men were the dominant and this and that, and here, these women took control of the situation. And So I thought I I feel that based on this little 6 minute interview, and they didn't really give too much away. I'm just talking a little bit about some of the calls, Which I ended up kind of loosely basing all of my phone calls on stuff they were saying. I just thought it was time to tell kind of a an original story from their perspective.
Craig Hart [00:06:12]:
Yeah. It's really interesting. So a couple things about that. First of all, it really brings home the fact or whether, you know, writing books or on audio plays or Being creative in certain endeavors, people always ask, where where do you get your ideas? And I think this is an illustration of you get them from anywhere and everywhere. You just have to remain open when that moment comes, when that idea presents itself to grab it and go with it, I I as you did. Absolutely. And the second thing is and you're you're a long time audio draw or, old time radio fan, so maybe you can refresh my memory, but I'm thinking They're talking about telephone operators way back when they had party lines, and there was some show that had a running gag about a a party line telephone operator who who's always listening in to other people's phone calls. My memory is failing.
Craig Hart [00:07:07]:
I don't remember what it was, but I always got a kick out of that and, I remember, like, when my first phone growing up, I remember there being, like, a a party line.
Matthew [00:07:18]:
Yes. I remember that too.
Craig Hart [00:07:19]:
And you had to wait until the neighbor got off the line. Just so annoying. Yeah. They have
Matthew [00:07:28]:
a number they seem to have a number for everything back there.
Craig Hart [00:07:31]:
Yeah. Oh, it's ridiculous. So how do you go about Crafting or how did you go about crafting the sound design and production production techniques, To bring this particular story to life for listeners. So were there any particular creative challenges, for example, that you had to overcome for this?
Matthew [00:07:50]:
Yeah. That's a great question because, I did not do a play in, 2022 just because I spent almost 8 months doing the research On switchboards, how it works, also even the play itself listening to it and trying to Compare it to time, timeline wise with its competitor, which was the Chase and Sanborn hour to make sure that everything lined up properly. But all the footage that I'd ever seen of a telephone or, I'm sorry, a switchboard, it was just a light that would blink, but there was no sound that it would make. And so I realized because everything was silent or there was a narrator over it, so I was like, I have to Create this sounds, which is why I came up with the buzzer, and and so that was the biggest, like, how do you Also, imagining all the sounds is, like, when you see the footage, like, there's several people in a row, so there's gonna be chatter. There's gonna be cords pulling. There's gonna be the sound of the cords plugging in, plugging out, sliding back down. There's but the hard part is is to emulate how busy the switchboard was, considering it was just lights, that's why I had to come up with the idea of making, creating a buzzer.
Craig Hart [00:09:06]:
Right.
Matthew [00:09:07]:
And then making it not annoying.
Craig Hart [00:09:10]:
Right. That's really fascinating. So Operator unfolds over the course of a single night at the Switchboard And I can imagine that providing a lot of challenges to, pacing, tension, and and storytelling. How did you maintain that suspense in in that restricted structure.
Matthew [00:09:30]:
What I tried to do is, again, go, listening to I probably listened to the war of the worlds, 3 dozen times and made notes with a time frame about how it was progressing from the 1st initial broadcast To the 2nd to 3rd. But I was also very aware that there's not a lot of scene changes in this play because it all takes place On 1 night in 1 setting from one point of view. Course, it was like, how do I actually get her answering calls? Well, then that's why I have missus, Taylor, talking about how there's been a lot of calls that evening, and they had to switch her off of practice mode to, you know, actual work mode. And then she never got a chance to switch her back, so she Starts taking the calls, and then it starts off as this very slow progression that goes along with the timeline of the War of the Worlds because From their point of view, there's an announcement of gaseous explosions, but then it goes back to music. So she gets a strange call, and then she gets a couple regular calls, but then the next Broadcast starts talking about something landing at Grover's Mill, so she starts getting calls about that. So it's just Following the timeline of the War of the Worlds program. And then, of course, when sometimes there would be enough, too much space between the musical interludes going on in the War of the World, so then I would bring in another character and have them start discussing it and then one farther down the switchboard. And so It it just was a very gradual progression that followed along with the timeline of, the broadcast.
Matthew [00:11:04]:
So not the easiest thing, and it definitely acquired several rewrites because I would read it as I was listening to the war of the worlds and be like, nope. That doesn't line up, and so I'd have to keep starting over.
Trisha [00:11:14]:
That's cool. So what kind of research did you do into the technology and the work of telephone phone operators. I mean, I know you mentioned, there was a documentary, and it's a specific era, the 19 thirties. So In order to authentically capture that time period, what other research did you do in preparation for it?
Matthew [00:11:40]:
Mostly learning about how the switchboard worked. We here in, Washington actually, as strange as it sounds, have Two telephone museums. Oh. 1 That's convenient. 1 2 hours north and 1 an hour, south. So I actually went. And and the funny thing is is they're only open one day a week for a grand total of 3 hours, so I had to Pretty much planet. And it's of course, they're only open while I'm working.
Craig Hart [00:12:08]:
Naturally.
Matthew [00:12:08]:
So I would have to take my lunch early and drive over and see, and I would meet with the curator of the museum, and he would explain. I was like as he started taking me through the history of the telephone, I was like, I'm gonna stop you right there, buddy. I I really just am curious about the late thirties. So if you could take me directly to that, I'm on a time crunch, and I still wanna eat something on my way back. So he would take me to the switchboard, and he would show me and explain it. And that's how I knew that there they didn't really make noises. It would just be a light that would blink, which is why I had to create that sound because, obviously, an audience can't Hear a light blinking, so had to kinda come up that way. But that was the biggest thing and just studying the different sounds from the rotary phones to how they sound because it's actually quite interesting how lifting a handset on a phone from the thirties sounds different from one from the forties or fifties or sixties because they got they were heavier the older they were and lighter the younger they were.
Matthew [00:13:11]:
So as time progresses, the phones would get light lighter. So I actually went to several antique stores, here in the area and Kept looking for phones, and my wife would be like, what about this one? And I'd lift it up, and I was like, nope. Not not heavy enough. And I'd go to the next one. So That was a fun car ride home.
Trisha [00:13:28]:
That's cool.
Craig Hart [00:13:29]:
And you forget I was gonna buy a Nokia then tie a brick to
Matthew [00:13:31]:
it. Yeah. Exactly.
Trisha [00:13:35]:
So I have a little bit of a personal connection to the War of the Worlds event. My great grandfather was Napping in his chair in October of 1938 and had the radio on, and when he woke up, it It was in the middle of, you know, these news broadcasts, and, you know, got a little Got a little nervous about the state of the world. Absolutely. Yeah. So, But eventually, I he figured it out. So but it's interesting to have that connection and then And then hear hear the story about the war of the world told from a totally different perspective. So, Yeah. I appreciate that.
Matthew [00:14:25]:
Absolutely. Thank you. And I love that story. And and that's the other part of it as I was doing all this research. I I discovered, And, at first, I almost slapped myself across the face for not knowing this, but, because as long as I've listened to this show. But There's a a city not even an hour away from where I live in Washington called Concrete, and This show literally put concrete on the map because up until this event happened, nobody even knew this this, city existed. But then as as fate would happen or have it, and and I touched on it in the play when I introduced the character Richard, Is at the moment where the spaceships are being reported landing across the country, There was a thunderstorm that hit a tree branch and took out the city's power and their telephone lines. So the Oh.
Matthew [00:15:17]:
So so they all thought that they were being attacked and everyone went running to the streets screaming out that they're being invaded. And people are driving through I was like, what the heck is happening here? And then people were jumping into the back of people's trucks and they're like try you know, and driving them out of town and And then they spent weeks afterwards either being ridiculed in other news, papers or else they were printing apologetic, articles like, Yep. We knew. We didn't know. We're idiots. So so that was fascinating to hear about and learn about.
Craig Hart [00:15:54]:
Well, it's so funny because correct me if if I'm wrong, Matthew. You've done a lot more research on this than I have, but it seems, as if my memory serves that a lot of people first learn about that when they turn from War of the Worlds or when they to War of the Worlds from A Different Pro. I think you mentioned the Chase and Sanborn, like, when the musical number came on or something like that.
Matthew [00:16:14]:
Correct.
Craig Hart [00:16:15]:
But what would be even more startling is if, in Trisha's great grandfather's Case if you woke up from a nap Yeah. And heard this, that would be even worse. Like, you're kinda disoriented anyway. You know?
Matthew [00:16:27]:
Well, especially if when he woke up, it was the scene where they first attacked the farmers, and you all you hear is screaming, and then everything, yeah, cuts off. I was like, what a great way to wake up.
Trisha [00:16:36]:
That that's interesting because my great grandfather was a farmer.
Matthew [00:16:39]:
Oh, wow. Yeah. That's fantastic.
Craig Hart [00:16:43]:
That'd be crazy. I I mean, I wake up from a nap, and I don't even know what time of day it is. I can't imagine how I would have re re reacted if I woke up and heard that coming over the news.
Matthew [00:16:51]:
Oh, I I can't either. But but yeah, to to comment on what you said, that is correct. They and and this is where I one of the things I find most fascinating about it is What Orson Welles actual like, how structured this whole event was because I read somewhere that He had been studying the Jason Sanborn show for weeks because they were literally the number 1 show on the air at the time, And they were, like, something like number 40 or and they're about to get canceled.
Craig Hart [00:17:22]:
Mhmm.
Matthew [00:17:22]:
So they had someone timing When all the musical interludes would happen, because back then it was common that people would change the station because there was, like, oh, I wanna see what else is on. And so and and this was one of the first things I started timing. I actually would have 2 devices with, one, AirPod from each device in and I'd have the chase and soundboard show playing and the War of the Worlds turned off. And then right when it got to the interludes, I would paw I would Lower the volume on 1. I'd raise it, and I was like, nope. They're not lining up. And then I'd go back to it, and then there's a second interlude. And then I went up there.
Matthew [00:17:56]:
I'm like, now they're reporting The gaseous explosions. So it really did. So that's why I'm like I really truly believe they timed this and planned this from the beginning. Even though Right afterwards, he's, I didn't know, but, nah, I think you knew. Well, I know. And you've
Craig Hart [00:18:10]:
got they've got that that newspaper photo of him with his famous baby face Looking so innocent. Like,
Matthew [00:18:17]:
I had no idea. Come on.
Craig Hart [00:18:20]:
You're too smart not to have known, sir.
Matthew [00:18:23]:
There's no question there's no question he wasn't a genius. I and I don't I recently posted on, one of the, audio drama groups, The interview the day after the broadcast where he's surrounded by newspaper people, and they're asking him all these questions. And he plays it off so calm and cool and innocent, and you're just like, you psycho. You knew what you were doing.
Craig Hart [00:18:48]:
So funny.
Trisha [00:18:49]:
It's almost it's almost like sculptural audio drama. I'm like, maybe that's a A weird concept, but, I mean, he really sculptured it to fit a certain context.
Matthew [00:19:03]:
Yeah. And he even claimed that that it wasn't the 1st time this, this form of radio play had been done because everything was done. The original script was not, as a a series of radio, broadcast. It was an actual typical audio play script, and I guess The night before or 2 nights before, he decided to to switch it up because the first 35 minutes are pretty much bulletins. And then after they finally decide to announce that it's a play, then the rest of the play is your typical average Old time radio production where there's now narration and, you know, music and yeah. I mean, it was perfectly timed. And then up until that point, To me, it's super intense.
Trisha [00:19:49]:
So, after operator, what's next for you? Do you have Plans for more audio dramas in the future? Please say yes.
Matthew [00:20:00]:
Okay. Yeah. Actually, I'm currently I I I shouldn't my my wife's in the next room, and I think she'd kill me if I if I she knew I was gonna do another play right away, but, she likes me to take breaks in between. But I am currently, working on, an audio play based on the urban legend, The Babysitter and the Man Upstairs. It's the tale where the babysitter is obviously watching kids and she's receiving phone calls. But the thing is, after doing Some my research on that, there's so many different endings. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to end it because I've always thought that was one of the creepiest stories, I've ever heard is, you know, as a kid, and then there's been several movies made on it. But, right now, the working title is the sitter, And I'm just, just beginning to start, writing it as we speak.
Matthew [00:20:52]:
I'm hoping to have it out by spring.
Trisha [00:20:54]:
Are there any lessons from operator that you plan to carry forward into your next project?
Matthew [00:21:01]:
No. Only because well, actual well, production I mean, story wise, no. Production wise, definitely. Because every play I've done so far, I've done it for 100% free. Like, everything from the acting has always been Free. And this most in the biggest issue has been the, software I've been using, which has been Audacity, which is a great, software for really small things. But as I learned from this last, production, hence operator, It actually crashed on me 3 times Mhmm. And I actually lost the entire play 3 times.
Craig Hart [00:21:40]:
Oh, no.
Matthew [00:21:41]:
And had to start from scratch. And I because I had gotten to, I'd say, hour because it's an hour and 28 minutes, and I got into an hour and 12 minutes. And then when I went Save it, it would not allow me to save. And so after many different tests and trying to get some outside help, which, I have to give a major shout out to Alicia Hanson who spent hours trying to help walk me through it and give me suggestions. But at the end of it, it just kept crashing. And so I had to start editing it in chunks and then piece the chunks together. Because at least I knew if I had a successful finished chunk, I was like, and we're done moving on. And then I'd do the next, John, am I done moving on? But, but I never I can say at the same time, I never Did it less than because I was getting sick of it.
Matthew [00:22:29]:
Like, meaning, like, well, that takes fine. We'll just move on to the I literally
Craig Hart [00:22:34]:
Right.
Matthew [00:22:34]:
And on the flip side is, you know how Audacity shows you, like, a wave format? I was actually able to start recognizing the wave of each take I do. So So I was like, yep. There's that one. There's that one. So I think for my next one, I'm actually gonna finally invest in some software swear that, does not have that issue.
Craig Hart [00:22:54]:
Alright, Matthew. This has been so great. Thank you so much for joining us and, giving some behind the scenes stuff, some of your takes on, like, Philosophy of audio drama. It's always interesting to talk to to people about that. So, thanks so much. This was great.
Trisha [00:23:07]:
Great conversation.
Matthew [00:23:09]:
Well, thank you guys so much. I appreciate you guys asking me to do this. Like I said, like, I find your guys' podcast super amusing. I always Crack up at least 3 times when I'm listening to it. So yeah. No. It's it's funny. And and, Craig, honestly, I think, I think you're an incredible writer.
Matthew [00:23:25]:
So for you to for you to give me the credit that, that you have, I I greatly appreciate it and and the support, because I know we constantly are Commenting on each other's stuff on social media and stuff. So it's good to have it's good to have, like, this little group that Kind of supports each other and stuff. And and, Trisha, now that I know who you've played on Titanic Wave, I can say with full confidence, you are an incredible actress.