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UP TO THE MINUTE is a production of Colorado Radio for Justice (CRJ). It's a weekly snapshot of what’s happening, and what’s on the horizon, in the criminal-legal system in Colorado and beyond, hosted by CRJ's team of system-impacted podcast hosts. CRJ's featured guests / contributors on the show are staff from the Colorado Criminal Justice Reform Coalition (CCJRC). www.radioforjustice.org
Bob Eisenman:
[00:00:31] Introduction
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Bob Eisenman: my name is Bob Eisenman. I'm here with Colorado Radio for Justice and this is Up to the Minute.
Um, we're at C-C-J-R-C
JoyBelle Phelan: I am co-host JoyBelle Phelan. And today we are talking with Christie Donner, the executive director of the Colorado Criminal Justice Reform Coalition. And today we're gonna be talking primarily about the $2.8 million that DOC just got. Hey Christie. Hey. How's it going guys?
Good, how are ya?
Christie Donner: I'm great. Thanks for coming over.
JoyBelle Phelan: Thanks for having us.
[00:00:57] $2.8M Funds to CDOC for 153 Private Prison Beds
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JoyBelle Phelan: So. In case anyone missed it. The JBC, the Joint Budget Committee gave another 2.8 million dollars to the Department of Corrections. Why and why do we care?
Christie Donner: Um, so the specific request was for 153 more private prison beds.
Right. So, uh, backstory quickly is, Every year the Division of Criminal Justice puts out prison population projections, which just essentially forecasts what they expect the prison population to be. It's a really important document for the Joint Budget Committee and legislators. They do a lot of budgeting to that.
So the forecast came out. They expect an increase. We can talk about the why behind that. 'cause a lot of that is DOC driven. So they came back to the general assembly to ask for more money, right?
So there's a process by which agencies and departments can request more money off-session. It's called the Supplemental. And so DOC submitted one in September for these 153 more private prison beds based on those projections and the fact that their, um, vacancy rate now is below 3%. So, um, unfortunately, what the Joint Budget Committee is not very good at is asking the deeper questions about the-- 'Well, what are you doing to reduce the need for beds? And where are there efficiencies? And are we fully using, utilizing Community Corrections?' and, you know, um, asking about system performance with the department.
And so, um, we're damn determined to fight them over every bed. They don't need more beds. okay. That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. So we can talk more. 2.8.
[00:02:39] Snapshot of State Supplemental Budget Process
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Bob Eisenman: When does, so that money's been, I mean, it's been, they've asked for it. It's already been,
Christie Donner: yeah. So this is, and I just learned this, right?
Even though I've been doing this for so long, I didn't, uh, didn't understand this. So off session, the supplemental process is essentially the Joint Budget Committee giving permission to the department or any department, right, to overspend, right? So they give them permission to spend more money than they were allocated.
It's also a commitment by JBC that they will run an actual supplemental bill in January as part of the supplemental process. That then has to be approved by the general assembly. I thought they actually got the money. They haven't gotten the money. Which means we actually have a second bite at this apple.
That was
Bob Eisenman: my question. Mm-hmm. That, that was my 'cause I that my understanding was that like you can't just give extra money out without it going through.
Christie Donner: Yeah. That's what I didn't appreciate. Believe it or not, I thought can six people, you know, that, that make up the Joint Budget Committee, have they have that authority off session?
And I always thought it was Yes. The answer is no. So, um, they just give 'em permission to overspend, but it has to still go through the legislative process. And the thing that was interesting, these are normally like, almost automatic 'Yes' votes.
[00:03:50] Community Response to This Supplmenetal CDOC Funding
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Christie Donner: You know, I always tell people I have never won. We fought every bed that DOC has ever requested.
We have never won. And, um, the only way that we've been able to help reduce, um, the number of prisons right, is by reducing the number of people in them. So we shifted years ago from like fighting every bed and fighting the private prisons and trying to just close private prisons as a matter of principle and stuff like that, to just focusing on strategies that can reduce the population.
Because that's when, particularly the privates will close. If they're not making money, they close. Right. Yeah.
But this time they, it only passed by one vote really? And that was the first time. And that's a shift. And I think that's partly the organizing that C-C-J-R-C and the other community based organizations that were there. We had 75 people that packed the committee hearing room, which you never see.
Um, especially in the September supplemental
Bob Eisenman: off off session .
Christie Donner: That's, it's, it's unheard of to have that. And they all had 'No More Prisons' buttons on. We were very clear to indicate who we were and why we were there. 'cause they had other, you know, eight supplemental requests on the agenda and stuff like that.
Um, we had sent a letter to JBC opposing it; leadership from House and Senate Judiciary Committees weighed in and opposed, um, the budget request. So again, it's all about ratcheting up the heat and the scrutiny and really pushing JBC to ask the, the tougher questions. So. Um, yeah, we're like this far away from being able to lock JBC in a three-three tie.
but it's gonna take a lot more community engagement. You know, there used to be a time where C-C-J-R-C could just roll up and, and, um, try and push an agenda or, you know, stuff like that. And the politics have really changed and this administration is not open, um, to holding DOC accountable or looking at best practices, performance improvement.
Nothing like that. And so we have to come with a lot more, I always say we have to, to raise the, the heat, um, and broaden the base of people. Uh, particularly now because the budget crisis is, is no joke. I mean, they cut what, $55 million outta Medicaid? They swept a hundred million dollars out of affordable housing.
They're doing all this stuff, and then DOC comes in and, and gets more money for prison beds. It just doesn't, it just doesn't make any sense.
[00:06:12] CDOC's Current Prison Vacancy Rates
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Bob Eisenman: Can you, for the people that are listening, explain the vacancy rates 'cause a lot, I don't think a lot of people understand what that means. Yeah. So,
Christie Donner: Every year DOC is, um, in their budget, they are allocated for X number of beds, right?
And so, um, and that includes the privates. So they decide how many private prison beds they're, they're gonna budget for, and then what the quote, "operational capacity" is for the department. So that's the, even if there's empty beds here, empty beds there. If they're not funded beds, they're not in the operational capacity and they don't, they don't count for purposes of the vacancy.
So the vacancy rate is just like it would be in a hotel. Is there an ass in the seat? Is there not an ass in the seat? Is it open or not open? Right? And so when the prison bed vacancy rate starts to get in that one-, two-percent level - which is pretty full - DOC starts to really struggle to, to put through classification, get the right people in the right security level, um, separate people that need to be separated and all that kind of stuff.
So it really becomes a really important prison, um, management issue as well as a quality of life issue, for people, um, that are inside. So, DOC is pretty much flat out of medium security beds.
[00:07:36] The Prison Population Management Measures (PPMMM)
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Christie Donner: where it becomes, um, use important to, to us.
Right? In addition to that is we worked on legislation in 2018 that created the Prison Population Management Measures back in, then you guys might remember, right? Same position, really low vacancy rates, threats of, you know, bringing in sled beds and, and all that kind of stuff. And, but for COVID, like, we would've been in a real pickle, right?
And so we worked on the legislation that essentially says the prison population can be managed. There are steps that you can do. There's times when the left hand isn't paying attention to what the right hand is doing between Comm[unity] Corr[ections] and DOC and the parole board. And so it just had some very common sense measures that say: Hey, DOC, when that prison bed vacancy rate is, uh, below is 3% or below for 30 days, you have to do things like, you have to notify the courts and the prosecutors and the Joint Budget Committee.
DCJ has to give a list to the Department of unfunded-- you know, of vacant Comm Corr beds. They need to, to generate lists for the parole board to consider for people who are within like 90 days of a mandatory, uh, release date anyway. Or people that are low, very low risk. And so the idea is like. grease, the wheels.
It's not like people can get released that aren't already eligible for release. It's just looking at efficiencies and intentionality and mindfulness... because DOC is running outta beds. So that bill passed actually unanimously. Bipartisan support. It's kind just common sense, like, let's be thoughtful and, and all that kinda stuff.
Then of course, COVID hit, um, so it hasn't been an issue, uh, until now. And so DOC was, um attempting to avoid triggering the Prison Population Management Measures by keeping people in jail. So then the jail backlog, you know when people are awaiting
Transport to DOC, they sit in jail and, um, they're not counted in the vacancy rate.
The people are. They're counted in the inmate population. That's also part of the game. But they're actually,
JoyBelle Phelan: but they're not in a bed.
Christie Donner: They're not in a bed, right? So they were artificially keeping that above 3%. And of course, the sheriffs went ballistic, um, over the impact on their jails. And so they finally had to trigger.
And do the notification. So we've been under the PPMM operationally for a month or so. Okay. A little, maybe a little bit longer than that.
JoyBelle Phelan: Which means what? What should be happening right now, under that PPMM?
Christie Donner: so DOC has done the notification. It was a one-time, check a box. Everyone is supposedly notified.
DCJ is regularly giving them a list of Community Corrections beds. Um, but it is very difficult to actually determine how many are empty that could take somebody right now, to be honest with you. So we've got some cleaning up to do. Um, they provided a list to the parole board of people that were within 90 days of their, uh, MRD [Mandatory Release Date] that met a bunch of other criteria -
Like you couldn't have victim notification, you had to have good institutional conduct. 'cause the whole idea is like, what can, who can we expeditiously, you know, quickly kind of move through the process. Um, and so all of those, those lists have been generated and they have gone out. They've had little to no impact from what we can tell so far.
Um, I think there's some limitations in the statute and in how DOC and it can just sort of like, it doesn't require them to actually do anything. Right. To be honest with you.
JoyBelle Phelan: It's, it's, it's the - what's the game where you're moving the cups around?
Bob Eisenman: It's a shell game.
JoyBelle Phelan: Yeah,
Christie Donner: yeah, yeah, yeah. and there's some real limitations in the, in the bill itself.
In the, in the statute itself. Mm-hmm. So, um, one of the big things, so back in 2018, um, DOC had the process, if you wanted to be a, a registered victim, you had to do something affirmative. You had to opt in to the victim notification process. Um. Since the bill passed the PPMM bill passed, we flipped that notification, so now victims opt out. So they're automatically enrolled. There's a, a victim in a case. They're automatically enrolled with the DOC for notification purposes under the, uh, Victim's Rights Act. If they no longer, if they don't wanna be part of that, then they have to do something to opt out. So essentially, most people now in prison have a registered victim, even if the, the victim's not necessarily engaged or active or whatever, but it made them ineligible for any of these lists.
And so it's just a matter that we would need to modify it to accommodate for that change in the victim notification. Um, but there's other limitations to it too. It's not as prescriptive as it needs to be. It doesn't tell people what to do, um, as much as it probably should.
I talked to, uh, DOC about, I've been doing Open Records Act requests to try to get the date. I wanna see the list. I want it, like all of this stuff, right? That's going to the parole board. Um, very short lists. As you might imagine. And then there's one that should be a lot bigger, which is people that are assessed to be low or very low risk because we don't have victim notification as an exclusion.
Like you can still have a registered victim and and be eligible, if you're lower risk. And that list was really small and I was like, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And so in talking to the DOC about like, okay, how are you screening for eligibility? They said, oh, we did an algorithm. I was like, 'An algorithm? Tell me more about said algorithm.' and haven't gotten any real response to it. So I actually called up the director of the Department of Corrections. I was like, 'What's up with this algorithm?' He was like, 'I don't know. Lemme find out.' So there may be more there,
Christie Donner: Uh, but the bottom line is that the statute's too weak.
JoyBelle Phelan: it's the first time it's, it's been implemented, so it's good to know kind of where the cracks are.
Christie Donner: It was real clear what the intention was. It's not fulfilling its intended purpose. Um, so we're going to try, go back next session and, and strengthen it. Have you talked to anybody
Bob Eisenman: at. Like let legislature, are they aware that it's too weak? Yeah. Okay. So like,
JoyBelle Phelan: and there's agreement that it's too weak?
Christie Donner: it's pretty clear what the intent was of the bill. It unanimously passed. There was a, a belief that we could manage through common sense and expeditious again, mindfulness, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Mm-hmm. We could manage this population. The prison population is not growing on, it is not exploding.
It is growing by 23 people - men. In the women's population, it's not even growing. So we're just talking about the men's population - [growing] by 23 people a month, which is one person per judicial district, right? It's not on fire. It is very small shifts and changes that could zero out this growth, which would mean we would zero out the bed needs, which would mean we could save millions of dollars that could go somewhere where we would rather it go, whether it be to healthcare or whatever, water, education, whatever the list would go on.
Yeah, pick your list. There's a long list. There's a really long list. Anything but, right, right.
[00:15:07] How CDOC Staffing Shortages Intersect with Low Vacancy
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JoyBelle Phelan: I mean, let, let let's, we know the staffing shortages are a thing, right?
That, that's part of the challenge. Right? Right. If you are taking. For example, a case manager off of their case manager load. 'cause they have to go sit in a unit. Yeah. They're not getting their other work done.
Christie Donner: Yeah, yeah.
JoyBelle Phelan: Right. And so if there are, I'm guesstimating, I don't know that this is the number, but if they have a hundred people on their case load and Mm.
I'm picking a number, 20 of them need a parole plan in. Yeah. That's not happening.
Christie Donner: Yeah.
JoyBelle Phelan: How do we fix that?
Christie Donner: I hear you. And the staffing shortage was for real, right? And there were a lot of case managers that were pulled off. But they, DOC also gets funding for: case managers, facility parole officers, Restore case managers, all who are supposed to be doing parole planning.
So is it, we've got too many cooks in the kitchen. We got too many case managers in the kitchen. Like, why? I mean, it is not for, for lack of throwing money and more full-time equivalent like FTEs and, and positions in DOC to do it. And there's no feedback loop. There's no consequence. Right? There's no consequence.
[00:16:26] The "Tabled List" Of Prison Residents Whose Release Is On Hold
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Christie Donner: So the other thing is the tabled list. Can we talk about how long the frigging tabled list is? The table list? Yeah. So that's in the PPMM too is: look at the tabled list. Folks that have been conditionally approved for parole, they're just missing whatever, a parole plan, complete the program that you're in.
Whatever it is, it's like a black hole. Mm-hmm. Yep. So we were saying DOC, generate the tabled list, give it to the parole-- let them know, did they complete whatever put them on the tabled list?
JoyBelle Phelan: Well, and that's the same problem, right? Because if the teacher educator, like if they can't finish a program because the teacher is someplace else, has left, moved, whatever, like any kind, any number of things can happen.
What then? Yeah.
Christie Donner: Yeah. Well, people will sit on the list until they get taken off the list. 'cause they've hit an MRD. Yep. I mean like for real, for real. It had been on that list for
JoyBelle Phelan: years.
Christie Donner: Years, yeah. Let alone people with special needs parole that have, need a ho hospice, you know, they need like a nursing home and we'll never, you know, we may or may not ever find, or people, um, anyway that are just have really, really hard to find parole plans for.
There are some reasons why that people can get tabled, right? Yep. That are legit. But that's not my experience in terms of the majority of people that end up on that tabled list. And then it's not, nobody owns the list. Nobody's working the list.
But a lot of it is like, who is quality controlling? Who's making sure, oh, we have 30 days to submit a revised parole plan. Who's monitoring that?
Who's sending out the alert? Hey, you have 10 days we're expecting, or from the parole board. Hey, case manager, you're, you were supposed to gimme a parole plan, you know, 10 days ago. I haven't seen it. Get it to me now. Like there's no, that's what PPMM was trying to deal with is those inefficiencies.
Those dysfunctions, those, those, you know, um, substandard operations and practices and say, do better. Do better because it matters. It matters for the prison population to manage that. But quality of life for the staff, if, you know,
[00:18:40] Value of Lived-Experience Perspectrives
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Christie Donner: if you have staff vacancies, that's one way of rebalancing, right?
Isn't always just to throw money to get more staff. It can be reduce the population. And you can rebalance, you can rebalance the,
Bob Eisenman: Then you have enough staff.
Christie Donner: Then you have like right, there's more tools in the toolkit. and a lot of the legislators don't know how to ask for Yeah.
For, you know, they don't know. So, which is why this voice is so important and why this program and you guys really coming into the policy space matters so much. So they do understand what is-- what's really happening and what's really going on inside. 'cause they don't really know.
[00:19:16] Accountability of CDOC to PPMM
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Bob Eisenman: you brought up that the rules were made: Be better, do those kind of things. Who's supposed to be holding them accountable for this?
Christie Donner: You, me, joy? Anyone else who's paid taxpayer, who's an, but there isn't any, like, we don't have a, there's a mechanism. There's no mechanisms. Yeah. That's, I mean, technically, House and Senate Judiciary are the oversight committees for the department, but they're really removed.
They don't, they're not really resourced to play like as an ombudsman or an oversight committee. There's nothing that really is kicking the tires and looking under the hood. Now the creation [in the previous session] of, uh, Legislation Inside [Advisory Council] as a formal kind of policy making and informing group could really help for that. Um, but you know, a lot of states have moved and I by a lot, I don't know exactly how many, but I know there's a, there's a, a lot more interest across the country on creating like prison oversight commissions. Just dedicated specifically to the both supporting best practices and what works and all that stuff. But also to serve in more of this accountability. And when the, when things are not going well, how do we have corrective action? Who is held responsible? What does that mean?
You know? Um, but right now it's sort of like there aren't consequences if like nobody else could keep their job. Can you imagine like in the private sector? Oh my, my gosh, no. Like if like you had a supply chain that was like, ah, you have 30 days to get me stuff, and they're like, 'Meh, maybe.' Would you work with that supplier again?
No, you gotta business. But that's the parole, parole board and DOC, like the-- it's crazy to me.
[00:20:59] Quality Control on Facility, Department, & State Levels
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Bob Eisenman: So at, at what level are these kind of decisions being made? In terms of like, this is all high level stuff, right? Like is this being made at any kind of like from the warden down, or is this all like above?
In terms of those kind, those kind of decisions in terms of numbers.
Christie Donner: So there's policy that gets made by the department, right? Right. You know, you get stuck in medium. Just depending on how long it is to your PED [Parole Eligibility Date] 60 months to PED, you're stuck a medium.
Bob Eisenman: Yeah.
Christie Donner: Regardless, you have,
Bob Eisenman: Regardless of your points.
Christie Donner: regardless of your points, institutional conduct, track record, you could be, you know, a model inmate.
Right. And you would still get stuck a medium because DOC policy, so that's at a policy level, DOC could shift the policy and should shift the policy. 'cause it makes no sense. Right. But there's also these operational level, right? there's no reason why wardens or whoever couldn't be, or the CM 3s [Case Manager IIIs] right.
Who are gonna say, we're gonna have a quality control process to make sure every parole plan and it's that it's an approved parole plan, okay. Is submitted. That's a, that is, you know, if that was part of your job to do that, then I would be measured. Um, on my performance in that way. Like, so there's ways you can incentivize it.
There's making sure you have the right person doing it, but right now there's not really,
there's no, no performance metric, there's no like, um, data collection specific to that. So the oversight is based on individual people, um, raising specific situations or experiences that they've had and they find a group - us [at CCJRC] or others that are out there that are paying attention - and then, you know, try to say, 'This shitty thing happened to me.
Is there anything you can do about it?' And nine times outta 10 is, there is no, but sometimes, yeah, we can get on the phone and say, Hey, why didn't that ref, you know, their Comm Corr [Community Corrections] referral didn't go in, they're passed their statutory, they have a right, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then you're just like playing whack-a-mole.
You doing this one at a time when really it's a structural issue. Yep.
Bob Eisenman: So changes could be made
at a facility level that could have an impact on these.
Christie Donner: Absolutely.
Bob Eisenman: Which is, that's, that's really kind of cool to think about
Christie Donner: me. I think. I think, uh, I think of it like, I don't know. I've never, you know, obviously run a prison in my life,
But sometimes I think, like if I was a warden, those would be the types of things that I would think are important in supervising and being responsible for the overall efficiency and, and, um, quality of the experience, uh, for people who are incarcerated and staff in, in what I'm responsible my domain.
Right.
[00:23:34] "The Math Is Not Mathing:" The Jail Backlog
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Bob Eisenman: So let's talk a little bit about. That jail backlog. Yeah.
JoyBelle Phelan: So I, if I remember correctly, one or several county jails filed a lawsuit that basically. No, not a lawsuit. No. Just
Christie Donner: complained.
JoyBelle Phelan: Okay. Just complained. But they were basically saying we're holding however many people.
Christie Donner: Mm-hmm.
JoyBelle Phelan: We don't, we're not getting paid for these people. It's, it's taking resources out of our county.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. For people that should be sitting in a DOC bed somewhere. Yep. So, so they, they were making a case essentially that hey, they needed these beds to help clear the jail backlog.
Christie Donner: Mm-hmm.
JoyBelle Phelan: But if the jail backlog is something like 500 people and they're getting 158 some odd beds, like the math is not mathing here for me. Yep.
So talk us through like. How does this jail backlog actually impact what's happening here?
Christie Donner: So, um, you told it perfectly, right? Other than the sheriffs didn't file a lawsuit, they just complained. So, like I was saying, the DOC wanted to avoid triggering the Prison Population Management Measures, so they had to keep the vacancy rate above 3%.
One way to do that is just to not let them come in. And so people got stuck in jail backlog for longer and longer period. It took 'em longer and longer to bring them in. Right. And so that number of people in jail backlog skyrocketed to like over 600 people. At one point in time. Some select sheriffs, uh, signed a letter complaining to the governor, uh, about it, and then DOC started to move some people back in; the vacancy rate dropped below the 3% PPMM. There's, but to your point, there's more people in jail backlog than they just got beds for Now, there are other beds available in DOC.
It's not the only beds. Right. And again, they are saying by the end of December is when they'll need those additional private beds.
Um, but you're right, the math doesn't math. The one thing that was um, disturbing was that, um. The budget analyst, uh, over DOC said DOC could have come in with a much bigger supplemental than the 153, um, upwards of to the 400.
Yeah.
Based on projections.
Right. So, which is why we know that come January they're gonna ask for another supplemental. Uh, and then we're really talking, there's not a lot of beds that DOC can quote bring online.
[00:25:57] "The State Over A Barrel": Future Funding Requests, Private Prisons, & ICE
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Christie Donner: we are fully expecting that they're not done. Um, with this request, there's gonna be a bed request in, in January, and then in their next budget request, which we'll know in November, I would say that'd be the end of the year mm-hmm. That the governor's budget for, for the fiscal 26, 27 year comes out November one.
Mm-hmm. So it's probably gonna be
JoyBelle Phelan: in there,
Christie Donner: in there too. Mm-hmm. Um, but there are very, very few beds. That's,
Bob Eisenman: that's where my question was going. at some point then when, I mean, are they gonna want to build another prison or take over one of these other privates that they pulled out of and
Like, are private prisons going anywhere or are they gonna start asking for more prisons?
Christie Donner: Well, a couple of things. So we have, because it's a big question, right?
So the number one driver of growth in the prison population right now is an increase in parole revocations for technical violations. Mm-hmm. That's it. It's not a rush of new court commitments or an increase in sentence lengths or any of that kind of stuff. It is, it is the, the main driver of growth in, in the population.
1100 men last, last year went back to prison on a technical parole violation.
That's why we think there are a lot of policy solutions, right? Yeah. Um, to, to, um, address, address the population, let's say they choose to do none of that. Mm-hmm.
But, um, then okay, what does DOC do? They're gonna open every bed that they can, right? Mm-hmm. Which is what they physically, currently have.
So that won't last for too long. And then you really are talking about whether or not DO C's gonna get funding to build a new prison.
It takes years and years and years to do that. Right. And so they're outside the runway. If they were gonna plan to do that, they probably should have started five years ago if they wanted it to be shovel ready for, for when it's needed.
It's not. So then the other option would be to, to either convince the, uh, Core Civic Right. To reopen one of their closed facilities. So they've got, um, Walsenburg, they got Burlington mm-hmm. Are both closed, owned by. CoreCivic so they could decide to reopen those or Geo owns and they could reopen Cheyenne Mountain, right?
Mm-hmm. In Colorado Springs. Yep. So we do have three. Now, there was a fourth Hudson.
Christie Donner: That Geo owns that. They just got a contract with ICE. It's
Bob Eisenman: an ICE detention.
Christie Donner: To do ICE detention. And we've heard that Core Civic wants to get into that game as well. Right. It pays a lot better than the state. Mm-hmm.
All these kinds of things. Right. So now the state is competing with, um, Homeland Security.
and I'm sure then now the price of those facilities, if they wanted to buy them has gone up considerably. 'Cause now there's competition. So they kind of have the state over a barrel on some, some in some levels. So there aren't any cheap or fast, and we're talking like, well over a hundred million dollars.
best case estimate is more somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 to $200,000 per cell to build, and that's if it's, wow. And that's not, if it's like a super, super high security,
So that's gonna be one of the legacies of this administration, right. The, the Polis administration is, they have put us in a position where, um, for the first time in 22 years, the state is at a crossroads as to whether or not they're gonna build a new prison or not, or fund higher ed or fund Medicaid or do all these other things.
so it's left the state with not a ton of options. Um, we. We could come up with lots of ideas. Well, I have all kinds
JoyBelle Phelan: of ideas. Right? All kinds of ideas. Yeah. And
Christie Donner: so, and,
[00:29:32] Inviting Community Ideas & Insight
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Christie Donner: and the thing is, is now is the time to bring those ideas.
for particularly people who have lived experience, who've been inside. Like what are your ideas?
What does DOC accountability look like? What is, and we're soliciting, we're actively asking. If you have ideas, please contact me.
I think we need to huddle.
Mm-hmm.
And really, um. Like, bring the brain trust together and figure out what does a path forward look like because it's going to come from this community.
I know that Joint Budget Committee and house and Senate Judiciary committee are looking for answers. Mm-hmm. Um, and so... Let's give 'em to 'em.
[00:30:11] Conclusion
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Bob Eisenman: So, uh, anyway, I just wanted to thank Christie Donner, uh, from C-C-J-R-C. This is, uh, my name's Bob Eisenman.
I'm with Colorado Radio for Justice. I'm here, we're here on Up to the Minute, been joined by
JoyBelle Phelan: JoyBelle Phelan. Thank you so much, Christie. Always a pleasure. Thank you for joining us today. Same for me. Thank you.