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Welcome to the Women of HubSpot, a podcast celebrating the voices shaping marketing, technology, and the ever-evolving HubSpot ecosystem. Hosted by George B. Thomas from Sidekick Strategies. Each episode brings you the stories, strategies, and superpowers of the women driving this industry forward. It's their time. It's their mic. This… is Women of HubSpot.
Welcome to the Women of HubSpot Podcast, the show that celebrates the voices shaping marketing, technology, and the ever evolving HubSpot ecosystem. Hosted by George B. Thomas from Sidekick Strategies. Each episode brings you the stories, strategies, and superpowers of the women driving this industry forward. It's their time.
Intro:It's their mic. This is Women of HubSpot.
George B. Thomas:Hey. It's your boy, George b Thomas, and we're back again for another Women of HubSpot podcast. I'm super excited because I'm not here by myself because that would be awkward and weird, but I'm here with Lika. Lika, how the heck are you doing today?
Lica Wouters:I'm great. It is actually thundering outside. So if you hear an occasional clap, then that's what it is.
George B. Thomas:Well, there you go. I I hope that it we at least keep Internet and thunder. You know, sometimes thunder can be somewhat calming, but what's gonna be calming is this conversation that we're having today. Let me catch everybody up to speed. Listen.
George B. Thomas:It was a while ago. We won't talk about how long time is flying, but, you know, when you're having fun, that's what happens. Super Bowl. It is the Philadelphia Eagles, which, by the way, I got asked earlier today on another one of these episodes. Are you a Phillies fan?
George B. Thomas:To which I said, no. I'm not. I just was watching the Super Bowl. But Phillies were in in the Super Bowl. My daughter started to have a conversation about how the quarterback had an all woman team behind him, and I saw her face light up, and I saw how my two daughters started talking together about it.
George B. Thomas:And I was like, wow. Like, this was impacting me emotionally. And so I went to LinkedIn. There was no strategy. I put out a post and the post was simply, hey.
George B. Thomas:If you know a woman of HubSpot or a woman that worked at HubSpot or uses HubSpot and they're killing it, let's do some let's shine a light on them. And viewers, listeners, Lika, you you were tagged in that post. That post went nuts. I mean, there was no strategy, but it's probably been one of my most engaging or engaged with post. And so after that, we got done watching of Super Bowl, eating food, and my daughters and I had a conversation like, there's something here.
George B. Thomas:We need to have these conversations. And we've set out on this path. That, Lika, is why we're here today. We're gonna have the conversation about you and how you're awesome and the journey that you've been on. So are you ready?
Lica Wouters:Yeah. Totally ready.
George B. Thomas:Okay.
Lica Wouters:Are you ready?
George B. Thomas:I'm I'm ready. I'm I'm buckled in. I I I got a helmet over here. If I have to put it on, I'm I'm ready. We're gonna we're gonna have fun.
George B. Thomas:So we'll start from the beginning. First of all, you know what? Why don't you actually let the viewers and listeners know of who you are, what you do, and where you do it before I actually start this journey?
Lica Wouters:Okay. So I am originally from Europe. I was born in Holland. I grew up in Switzerland and I moved to New York when I was 19, 18 years old, kind of cosmopolitan. And I've been here ever since.
Lica Wouters:Started my own business, rolled into the HubSpot ecosystem. I think I'm very much aligned with HubSpot in the sense that the core has always been to solve for the customer. I generally like to help people. And, yeah, so most of the stuff that I do right now is HubSpot related and AI related. We had a bit of a downturn.
Lica Wouters:And if you're familiar with Superd, they did a 50 k pitch last year. I was one of the contestants, and I talk about this extensively, and I and I will keep on talking about it. I just had a really sharp downturn pretty much beyond my control. And I managed to turn it around. And then sometime at the beginning of this year, I said, you know what?
Lica Wouters:Instead of going upmarket, which HubSpot wants everybody to go upmarket, I'm not going upmarket. I am not scaling headcount. I am trying to rebuild everything AI first. So that's what I've been up to. It's very much been a building year for me, and I'm super excited for the future.
George B. Thomas:I can't wait. Man, now we have your background to talk about when we're done. By the way, if you're listening this, you should be watching it on YouTube between the two backgrounds. If I do say so myself, the show's looking pretty dope. And I wanna nerd out with you on AI because that has been a definite thing that we have been focused on in the last year, year and a half, almost two years now.
George B. Thomas:But now let's get into the journey. Let's get into questions. Lika, if we could go back in time and meet young Lika just starting out, one, what would we see? And two, what would she be most surprised by about where you are right now?
Lica Wouters:And it's it's a bit of a personal one too. Younger me, I think I was very naive. I came from Switzerland. Very safe country almost at the time, almost no crime whatsoever. Moved to New York City.
Lica Wouters:You know? Not that New York City is crime ridden by any means. So it's a lot of hype and overblown in the media, but definitely not at the same level of Little Zurich, Switzerland. And then I lived through nineeleven, so that was a bit of a shift for me as well. I often categorize myself as pre-nineeleven and post-nineeleven because I do think it had a really big impact in my life.
Lica Wouters:Not that I was in the towers or anything like that, but I was in the city. I did help friends go to the hospital and, yeah, have some very vivid memories even all these years later on that tragic day. And I think before, if you would have met me, I I would have said that I was very idealistic and a very strong sense of what is right and what is wrong. And afterwards, I was a little bit I lived a little bit more in the gray areas. I realized that everybody has a story.
Lica Wouters:My perspective might not be the prevailing perspective. And I think overall that's really helped me in the way that I run my business, just being able to use that and use empathy to understand that other people have maybe a differing perspective. Not that I may agree with it, they just, it's just different. They just, you know, go through life with a different perspective. I think it's also really interesting too to see the youth right now.
Lica Wouters:I identify that young version of me very much as well because they see life so black and white. I think as you get older, you also generally get a little bit more jaded.
George B. Thomas:So what would she be most surprised about where you're at right now?
Lica Wouters:I came here for for film. So really not anything AI techy. I think she would be excited that I was getting involved in AI. I think she would think that was cool.
George B. Thomas:Love it. Love it. I I think it's cool. I also the Switzerland to New York to 09:11 to business owner to like, you've already even talked about how downturn, transformation, pivoting, AI, rebuild. We're one question in, Lika, and already this journey is starting to formulate into an award winning story.
George B. Thomas:So let's keep going through this. Who along this journey that you've been on, who are some of the biggest inspirations or mentors that you've had along the way?
Lica Wouters:Early on, I worked for Jeremy Woutershaw. He was a commercial director and he came from Saatchi and Saatchi and was big in the advertising world. And he really taught me about stories. This was also after No, it was actually before nineeleven. But he taught me about stories.
Lica Wouters:He was very good at interviewing people and getting the real story out of them. And I remember being a PA in in his company and if we had some kind of commercial that where they went in and they had to interview someone who was hoarding bunnies. And it was a great commercial. He did a great, great story on them, but he was just able to pull stories out of people. And he was just, he was also very, very kind and easy to talk to, but he had this, he had a gift for that.
Lica Wouters:And I think that's kind of stuck with me. And then Dan Tire, shout out to Dan. He he was very instrumental when I came into the HubSpot ecosystem. He was always ready to, like, talk me up and and, you know, be like, don't keep your chin up. Keep going.
Lica Wouters:So and Dan just has great insight as well. So love Dan. And, know, now I feel bad because I'm probably forgetting people. But
George B. Thomas:I'm sure there have been many two.
Lica Wouters:Yeah. Those two stick out the most.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. I I love me a good dose of Dan Tire. And what's interesting too is the the first person you mentioned, this power of story, and you mentioned just easy to get along with. And my brain immediately went back to your other conversation that we're having where you mentioned the word empathy. And it's interesting to have these kind of word patterns of story and empathy and listening.
George B. Thomas:And and so it's it's you know? And by the way, Dan probably has all of those wrapped into him as well. We're gonna go into what I call the valley questions. There's about three or four questions. They're not the easiest questions, but I think there's a lot of lessons that can be learned out of the things that we'll talk about.
George B. Thomas:And then just so you know, we are going to crest up into the mountaintop and the peak, the fun questions towards the end as well. But I want to ask, have there, along your journey, have there been any hurdles or biases that you've had to overcome in your career? And how did you navigate those?
Lica Wouters:Yes, I'm a woman. I also I I I worked at Tiger Shulman's Mixed Martial Arts. Back in the day, I fought in the Golden Gloves. I was at one time, yeah, at one time, I was the sparring partner for the number one ranked female mixed martial arts fighter. This was before Million Dollar Baby came out.
Lica Wouters:This was before women were accepted in mixed martial arts. Yeah, and to a certain degree, I do feel like we kind of helped put some cracks in that ceiling, but at the time specifically, there was just no opportunity to fight. And was and I have to kind of put an asterisk there. Yeah, there was opportunity to fight, but nothing that would have been safe and sanctioned. And, you know, I'm not that silly.
Lica Wouters:So I have you know, we were kind of entitled to the same safety that the men got and I knew that back then as well. So there was some just like, hey, women can't do this. And so I've had that discrimination. And then there's also just in the workforce, I can't tell you how many times I've lost a deal and they've gone with another fast talking solution, someone who just could really talk fast. And then they've come back and they've been like, you know what?
Lica Wouters:I think we I think we messed up. I think that we should have gone with you. So we get that quite quite a bit.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. I too have heard those exact words before as a HubSpot consultant or agency as well. So it's interesting because I hear you talk about, first of all, mixed martial arts, female. Like, when the part of the question was how do you navigate it? And it's like, man, I just I go I do the thing.
George B. Thomas:Like, I go do the thing. And then the other part, when you're talking about the agency, it just feels to me like it's okay to lose it and okay to actually embrace them when they come back. Would you agree with kind of those two pieces?
Lica Wouters:Yeah. And I've really wondered at times, even with the 50 ks pitch that I did with Super, listen, 50 ks, it's a lot of money on the line, right? So who's gonna turn that down? And I didn't know if I, how that was gonna affect the business to be able to say like, oh, we had such a significant downturn. Like, I let go of a team, not easy either.
Lica Wouters:And to to kind of talk about a loss because, you know, that there's a certain, like, part of you that's like, if you talk about your losses, then you're not seen as winning. And if you're not seen as winning, then you can't really build anymore. So, yeah, I've had some doubts as to whether I should even make this or use this as a part of my story. And I have to say up to now, it's been nothing but positive. Most people have responded in a way where it's like, I recognize myself in that story.
Lica Wouters:So I think in hindsight, it's been a little bit more rewarding, but can't lie and say, know, this is a great story I was gonna lead with. No, that's it came with a bunch of doubt.
George B. Thomas:I love that you've embraced to tell the story. For me, I've learned that the more I can be vulnerable enough to share the times when I just didn't have it all together, when I didn't know what I was going to do, those are the times that people really connect because it's real and it's authentic. And honestly, Lika, I feel like that's when we build the most trust, is when we're willing to be vulnerable and open with folks. And so I love that you're using that story. Speaking of being vulnerable and stories, have you ever faced a moment where you felt underestimated, maybe even overlooked, or just kind of out of place in life or in this industry?
George B. Thomas:And again, how did you handle it when you're in that scenario?
Lica Wouters:Duh. Yeah. I have to say, like, I I'm I think it would be hard to find a woman that hasn't had that on some level. And I think I we deal or I deal with it the same that most women do with it. We we just keep going.
Lica Wouters:There's, you know, we're not gonna be swayed by it. And I can't, I honestly can't say that there has been a time where I felt like it happened more. And I've also made a conscious effort to surround myself around women that are not that won't pity themselves. I know that you've talked to Omi from D. S.
Lica Wouters:Cooper and Tracy from Graziani Multimedia. So to be around these women, and I'm sure I'm forgetting other women as well, but to be around these women, they're not sitting around and just kind of pitting themselves. They're just like, we're gonna go and do it. We're gonna support each other. And I think that has offset maybe a lot of negativity that would come into my life.
Lica Wouters:It really helps to kinda have your little tribe.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. I love the lessons there. It's a, a community, the belief of rolling up your sleeves and getting it done, not having a pity party. Just the word that keeps just coming to the front of my forehead on that is this persistence, like just to keep at it and keep going. I absolutely love that.
George B. Thomas:Okay. I swear we're gonna we're gonna crest out of these questions in a hot minute, but I but I still have to ask you. Have you ever experienced a a significant failure or a setback? And out of that failure or setback, like, what did you learn from it?
Lica Wouters:So I've had several setbacks. They're not I can't just be like, oh, one. I've had several ones. And I think the more setbacks you have, the more you're like, oh, I'm here again. Like, I've I've done this before.
Lica Wouters:You know? I think if you're if you're, you know, using your mountain and valley analogy, if you're always, you know, climbing and you've never experienced a valley, then that first time that you're in that valley, it's gonna be a little bit rough because, you know, like, do you keep going or do you is is that the end, right? But because I've had so many mountains and valleys, when I hit a valley now, I'm like, okay, you know, we're here again. It's this thing that's not so fun. Like, let me just keep going.
Lica Wouters:Let me just keep working. And then usually it does, you know, it does turn into a mountain again. And I have a purpose and I see the summit and I'm like, oh, okay, let's go. So have I had failures? Yes.
Lica Wouters:But I do think I have a certain amount of grit. I don't quit. I just keep going. I think that's been my saving grace. I don't know what I can credit that to.
Lica Wouters:Maybe it's my upbringing. Maybe it's just the chemistry of my brain. I don't know. But I do know that I keep going. And every time that I have a setback or a failure, it's just a little bit easier.
George B. Thomas:Not that you don't still have fear, but the fear is less because you know that you've made it through things like that before. And it's interesting to hear you tell that part of your story. It's almost like this understanding that there's a season for everything. Just like winter, spring, summer, fall, like season's going to change. I'm not going to be in the valley forever.
George B. Thomas:I am going to make it to a mountaintop at some point. So I think even having that buried deep inside you is what leads to that grit that you're talking about, that persistence that I kind of mentioned earlier. Okay, we're going to start climbing this mountain. Lika, what does empowerment mean to you, and how do you pass that on to others in your field?
Lica Wouters:Know, off the top of my head, empowerment to me is collaboration of some sort. And then, like, you know, and then my mind is like, well, who is being empowered? Like, am I doing the empowering or is someone empowering me? Like, you know, but I think it all boils down to some form of collaboration. If I kind of look back on on everything, and and this is one of the things that I absolutely love about the HubSpot HubSpot partner ecosystem is that when I first started with HubSpot, I was still very much in this mindset of, like, everybody's competition.
Lica Wouters:Everybody's competition. And, you know, I need a I need a slice of the pie and all the, you know, all the things that come with that as well. Like, don't nobody takes my piece of pie and I'm gonna get my share. And I think the HubSpot partner ecosystem quickly was like, like, that's just not a great mindset, you know. And Dan was a part of that.
Lica Wouters:And it was just like, look, you got to think collaboration, like there's plenty of pie. And you hear that quite a bit in the ecosystem. You follow like, the the the webinars that they give, you know, especially, like, the spotlights or the inbounds, they're like, there was plenty of pie, you know? So, when I switched that mindset and just became a little bit more collaborative and just shared what I was doing more, I just rolled into so many more situations that were empowering. And I think that sharing that collaboration that like, you're, you know, you're not my competition.
Lica Wouters:You are the person that I can, like, you know, bounce ideas off of because you're in the same situation as me is much more powerful than, you know, this like, I'm gonna you know, I'm not gonna tell you my secret sauce because I need to maintain my competitive edge. I don't really believe in secret sauces anymore.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. I am with you. We are kindred spirits. I don't believe in secret sauce. I believe in adding value.
George B. Thomas:And I do love this idea of empowerment entangled with collaboration. And so knowing that that's how you look at empowerment is this idea of collaboration, unity, working together. Can you share a moment in your career where you felt especially empowered or proud of like something that you had achieved?
Lica Wouters:Yeah. I mean, you know, and and this is where Dan comes into the picture. So I was one of the first I have to kinda give you a bit of context. I I had a moment when I started with HubSpot, and I felt very much like a fraud or had imposter syndrome because I didn't go to school for any digital anything. I I studied film.
Lica Wouters:So I wasn't quite confident in the way that I was selling because I felt that this is all very personal to me. But I just felt like, oh, here are all these young kids coming out of college with fancy degrees. What do they know? I don't know it. And then through HubSpot, I got enrolled into the pipeline generation boot camp that Dan was teaching at the time.
Lica Wouters:And Dan was like, girl, everybody feels that way. Like, you know? So he was capable of kind of getting into my mentality and switching it up. So yeah. And I I I think that was very, very empowering.
George B. Thomas:I love that so much. And yes, Lika, everybody deals with that. I I mean, listen, you know, I'm a high school dropout. When I did go to college, I went to college to be a pastor. Then I'm a recovering designer developer who found HubSpot in 2012.
George B. Thomas:Like, I don't belong here. This is not you know what I mean? But yet here it is, and it works magically. So we we all have those I hate to call it a demon or mindset, but we have those mindsets that keep us from becoming, like, who we truly can be. And I love that Dan helped unlock that for you.
George B. Thomas:That's amazing.
Lica Wouters:I think that's helped me as well currently with the whole AI thing. Right? Because everybody's talking about AI. And it's like, who am I? What do I know?
Lica Wouters:But if I look back at the opportunities that I had way back when and I was too shy to speak my mind or I I I really kind of hid in that comfort zone of like, oh, I'm not an expert. The people that I was that were almost my equal at the time, went on to have very lucrative careers. And I'm like, I don't think there was a certain moment in time where the expertise was pretty much level, except they went a route of confidence and also like publication. They published their thoughts. They shared their thoughts.
Lica Wouters:And I don't wanna diminish what they did, because they were out there. And I just kind of held back and just kind of watched on the sidelines. And yeah, and I think this time around, I'm like, I don't think I want to be on the sidelines. I think I want to be in the game. So it's uncomfortable because I'm not one to just be out there.
Lica Wouters:You know, I made I made the background look nice because I was gonna do YouTube videos. I have done zero YouTube videos. So so I think it's all about pushing out of that comfort zone. And and some people, just their comfort zone is just in different spots than mine is. And, yeah, I I do think that imposter syndrome, and I still have it.
Lica Wouters:It's not like it's completely gone. But this time around, I'm kind of like, don't listen to that voice. There's a huge opportunity with AI on the scene. Don't listen to that voice.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. Hit that publish button. Hit that publish button. It's funny because you transported me and your story back to when Marcus Sheridan and I started creating content around HubSpot with the Hubcast podcast. And it's funny.
George B. Thomas:I was no more educated than anybody else other than I was the first one to take a certification and then talk about it on a podcast to which and everybody listened to it and probably went and took the certification or watched a video. Like, it was like educate to educate, educate to educate. Like that and so you you right now with AI are learning a metric butt ton, and all you need to do is educate those people that aren't quite where you're at yet, which, by the way, is a large majority of human beings. So I'm gonna say this right here, right now. Hit the publish button.
George B. Thomas:And when you do, you better share it with me so I can share it with everybody else because it will be a fantastic day.
Lica Wouters:Okay. I have I'm working on some things. Yep.
George B. Thomas:Yep. Yep. Yep. Hit the publish button. Okay.
George B. Thomas:So if you could change we're gonna get the magic wand out here for a second, Lika. If you could change one thing about how women are supported in this industry, magic one moment, what would it be?
Lica Wouters:Equal pay. You know, I mean, I don't know what to fix because it's almost as if it's broken and it's not. I think I actually, and one of the reasons why I like AI and why I think, and why I have no problem following this direction is because I do not believe that AI is gonna replace human interaction. I don't believe that AI is gonna replace all the jobs that everybody's talking about. I do believe that it's going to significantly change the way we work.
Lica Wouters:But I don't believe, I think we have innately, we have the need to connect with other human beings. And the people that know how to do that are going to be the people that are successful. So Harvard Business Review has done a ton of studies about women in business. And if you look at the qualities of male leaders versus female leaders, female leaders do better because they're more able to show empathy. They're more able to walk another mile in someone's shoes.
Lica Wouters:And there is theory out there that we tend to hire people based on our own narcissism. So it means that a lot of confident men, not competent men, but confident men rise to the top in powerful positions and women then come in later to fix up the mess. Know, think it's one of the reasons why California wants women on the boards. Because there is data out there that just shows when you bring in women, the business does better. But it does better because I think we're able to listen a little bit more because that's traditionally been like the role.
Lica Wouters:And so I do think the future is a little bit more female than we care to say it, even with the whole pushback on DEI and all these things. I do think that people will realize that female qualities. I, you know, I'll smooth it out a little bit when I say, you know, female versus male. I think some men can listen, have really strong, you know, empathy, know how to walk some, you know, walk a mile in someone else's shoes. I don't think this is just something that women only do.
Lica Wouters:I do think there are men out there that can do that, but I would describe them as a little bit more feminine qualities than male qualities. To me male qualities is, you know, that bravado, that alpha male, that, you know, this is the way we're going do it, you're going do it my way or, you know, or that's it. I want to be a little gentle on like the specific genders and just talk a little bit more about qualities because I think they can, you know, not all men are like that and not all women are like that. I also think there are some very bad female leaders out there. They're just they're they don't have those qualities.
Lica Wouters:They have very, like, male qualities of like, we're doing it my way. And they don't have that ability to walk in somebody else's shoes. And I would say they're just bad leaders. Yeah.
George B. Thomas:It's interesting because I totally agree with you, by the way. The word nurturing came to my mind. And I know my wife, and I know my mom, and I know many other women that I know in the HubSpot space. If I had to tell, like their superpowers, they're just good at nurturing, which leads back to that empathy. That's not, for many of us men, that's not a default state.
George B. Thomas:Like, it's something that if you do find a leader who is very empathetic, it is because they have put the couch time, the brain time in to move themselves into that place. So I think that the idea of equal pay, better pay, the idea of this nurturing or empathy, whether man or woman, a beautiful answer to that question.
Lica Wouters:I mean, I love business for this very reason. You have a group of people, you all have to walk in one direction. You know, it's hard. Like, everybody has their own thing. You put 20 people in a room.
Lica Wouters:I'm just talking 20. I'm not even talking like big corporations. Just 20 people. They all have their own things going on. Issues.
Lica Wouters:They all have their own perspectives on life. And then as you come as a leader, you need to be able to manage all of that. It's almost like wrangling cats. You know, that you have to be so versatile to kind of get all these you know, to be in all the spots at the right time. I don't think you can do that with an iron fist.
Lica Wouters:I think that will eventually always derail. And I think nurturing is a good word for that. And I do think men can be nurturing as well. So it's not, like, solely a women thing only.
George B. Thomas:Love it. Okay. This is called the Women of HubSpot podcast. So I wanna at least ask you one question about HubSpot. So are there any particular tools, strategies, or trends in HubSpot that excite you right now?
Lica Wouters:Yeah. I think the AI tools are super exciting. I partnered with Ask Elephant. I'm really enjoying their tool as well. It's not just HubSpot, but I think it's also what plugs into HubSpot that I've kind of grown into.
Lica Wouters:So all the app partners that are there that I'm just, you know, excited about. Yeah. And I'm I'm waiting for inbound. I I I'm hoping inbound is good. Yeah.
Lica Wouters:I have a feeling there is gonna be a lot of change.
George B. Thomas:I do not disagree with you. Everything that is kind of being built or the setup for where we're headed, I think is it will be not only is it a year of change from where inbound is, but I think it'll be a year of change of what we see HubSpot can do and what we'll need to learn and teach others to do as well. Okay. So as you've gone through this journey, you've obviously met people, you've connected. In the business world, we call it networking.
George B. Thomas:So, Lika, how important is networking with other females or even just humans in general? And do you have certain strategies that you try to use to build those connections?
Lica Wouters:I love networking with with females. And I think, Tracy Graziani, who runs the lioness group, invite only, she really has done a bang up job for creating space for women. I remember way back when, when Tracy was thinking about starting it, we were both in, that's how I met her in Dan Tyre's boot camp. And we had to go sell, and there was some opening line. And I happened to say in a breakout room to Tracy, I don't know if I can pull that off.
Lica Wouters:Like, as a woman, I don't think I can pull that off. It's too too forward facing, and and I might I think I need to take it a step back, but I don't know if I'm if that's, you know, doing a disservice to the way that I should sell. And and Tracy was like, I get it. I totally know what you mean. So that was a moment where I was like, okay, I'm not the only one with these thoughts.
Lica Wouters:And that's already, that's before COVID. That's already a long time ago. And since then, I've just kind of sat down with other women to talk about these things and to, you know, just be like, hey, what's your experience? How are you feeling about these things? And again, going back to that collaboration and not seeing people as competitors, it's really kind of changed the way that I look at network because I feel like I can learn from so many people.
Lica Wouters:And, you know, I'm really kind of here standing on the shoulders of many other people, many other women too. I'd like to say I did it on my own, but I didn't. You can't can't do it in isolation. So I think that that finding your tribe, finding the people that you, you know, at the end of the day, I mean, I can't tell you. Even this morning, I I saw Omi this morning, and she might kill me if I say this, but we were just complaining about difficult clients.
Lica Wouters:Like, she's like, ugh, I'm dealing with this this situation, and I'm just I know I shouldn't take it personal, but I am. And and I'm like, I've been there. Like, I was there two months ago. Like, I'm like, oh, and then you bounce ideas off each other. You talk each other talk, you know, through it with each other, and then you just end up walking away feeling better.
Lica Wouters:And for some people, they can use a spouse or, you know, someone that's in their family. But, I think that's a little bit unfair as well because they're not in your day to day. And so so you come out of your, you know, little work office, right, for I most like most people I know are remote, and you're like, and you like kind of unload all this energy onto your spouse. And that's not always a good thing. So being able to speak to somebody else that's in your shoes might just be at times a healthier way to deal with work.
George B. Thomas:I love that so much. It might be a rewind point in the podcast because this mindset of non competition and then leaning into what I heard you say was conversation and collaboration as the method or means for the networking, not networking for networking's sake, but this quality relationship building. I absolutely love that. So question for you. We're cresting By the way, we're cresting up into the mountaintop questions here.
George B. Thomas:What has been the most rewarding aspect of your career so far?
Lica Wouters:I think helping clients. I I I literally posted, I think it was yesterday or maybe two days ago. Sometimes that my sense of time changes when I work. But, I got a I got an email from a client to, like, a couple of days ago, and he sent me a picture of his whiteboard with nothing on it. And he's like, thank you.
Lica Wouters:We can retire the old whiteboard. You know? This is progress to me, you know, from someone that I helped get set up in in HubSpot. And it it was just rewarding because I know when he came in, he's like, I can't keep track of everything on this whiteboard. And it was jam packed with everything.
Lica Wouters:Like, he showed it to me. And I was like, I can't even read your handwriting. How what do you mean that this is like the way that you're organized? And I think it's also very indicative of how a lot of businesses or or even small businesses work. It's just they're so set in there in the way that they do things that change becomes very scary for them.
Lica Wouters:You know, like, we know it works if we do this really funky roundabout thing that really is not scalable at all, but we know it works. You know, we're gonna try and stick to it for all that we can. And so getting that feedback back from those clients just be like, hey, thank you, I think is is great. Like, I yeah. That's to me, that's the most rewarding.
Lica Wouters:I had another client. And these are not these are funny because these are not testimonials you get on, like, Google or the the HubSpot review. Right? I had another, client. He goes, Lika, thanks to you, all my kids have a bedroom.
Lica Wouters:And he said it, like, laughing. I almost started to cry because he had 10 kids. So so I know I know that he bought a big house. So yeah. So those are the things that I find, like, truly rewarding because, I'm not, and this is not my quote.
Lica Wouters:I stole it somewhere. I don't know who wrote it, but I'm not in the business for business owners to buy a second home in France. I'm in the business for smaller business owners that are trying to put food on their table, pay for their kids' jerseys, pay for their son's baseball shirt, gloves, shoes, and their daughter's ballerina slippers, put away some money for their college education. I'm small business all the way. I'm not for the large corporations that are raking in millions and shifting their business to another country to offset taxes that they have to pay.
Lica Wouters:That's not my my jam.
George B. Thomas:Yep.
Lica Wouters:And I'm fine with that. Like, I'm I'm happy with that.
George B. Thomas:Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Okay.
George B. Thomas:So let's shift you into mentor mode for this next question and we'll get some advice. Lika, what advice would you give other women who might want to choose this career path?
Lica Wouters:I would say be bold, fake your confidence, and don't quit. And if you have the confidence, go with the confidence. But I know sometimes when you're starting out, that confidence isn't quite there. So fake it till you make it. Fake your confidence.
George B. Thomas:So as we land this plan, I got three questions left for you. First one is, you've been on this crazy, journey, by the way, Switzerland, New York, nineeleven, all the things. Mixed Martial Arts, like come on. Which is gonna probably make the If we've learned so much, the next question might be more difficult, but we'll see. But this question, what are your long term goals from here?
Lica Wouters:Long term I don't really have long term goals. Not to say that I don't plan, but I think the future is a little bit unwritten, especially with AI on the on the scene. So I I can tell you what I'm I'm planning for in the near future, which is to stay incredibly lean as a company. I was even thinking about switching the name to, like, skeleton crew because that's really what I'm I'm trying to to do is just stay incredibly lean and use AI as much as possible and build back with AI. And so I'm focused a lot on process.
Lica Wouters:So if you're asking me what, you know, long term goals, let's make the medium range goals. For me, it's just to be really solid and caught up on documenting all the processes, specifically how they are tied to AI. I feel like we have a little bit of a AI bubble going on where it's like shiny new toy, new AI stuff. Let's go. And I don't think we're having enough conversations about how to properly build and scale a company with AI.
Lica Wouters:And I'm in the midst of being that guinea pig for myself. So that's what I'm working on. Hopefully, it works. Oh, yeah. But it may not.
Lica Wouters:Like
George B. Thomas:Listen. In in 2012, started riding this pony, HubSpot, and I was like, it might work out. We'll see. I have never been more excited than the moment that I found out about HubSpot than when we started using AI. And I think it is a great pony to ride.
George B. Thomas:And I think people who do that are gonna end up in some real interesting places in a good way. So I I think you've you're hooked in the right thing, headed in the right direction. So, Lika, again, we've learned a ton about you, but what is a surprising or little known fact about you that people might not expect that we haven't learned so far?
Lica Wouters:I don't know. I talk in the shower to myself. That's where I have the the best ideas. I'm a big fan of the Met, the Metropolitan Museum of Art here in New York. It's where I spend most of my weekends, and I love analog things as much as I love digital.
George B. Thomas:Tell me you have a, like, a record player and vinyl records.
Lica Wouters:It's in the other yeah.
George B. Thomas:Yep. See. Yes. We're Kindred Spirits, by the way, because I too talk to myself in the shower. And that is that is the place where I come up with some of the craziest things that, like, oh, let's do that.
George B. Thomas:Let's try that.
Lica Wouters:Right. And you have the whole conversation and and there's yeah. There I have maybe I need to stop talking about that right now. But, like, yeah, I say a lot of things to myself in the showers. There's a lot of, like, brainstorming an idea, and the the only thing that I regret is that I don't have some kind of way to, like, jot things down.
Lica Wouters:Well, that may be that may be a good thing because when I do finally head over to my desk, then the good stuff is what stays and whatever else I was rambling about Yeah. Wasn't important.
George B. Thomas:We need a waterproof AI device that we can talk to instead of just talking to ourselves. Oh, I love it. Okay. So last question. Finish this sentence for me.
George B. Thomas:Success to me equals blank.
Lica Wouters:I think success to me is being happy. I've said that a couple of times in my head already, but and it it's like quite doesn't quite make sense. But, yeah, I think if you're you're happy, then that's that's successful. Not to say that there are times that you're not happy. Maybe I think maybe it's not success or happiness that I'm thinking of, but just being fulfilled, which is a little less to the initial emotion.
Lica Wouters:I had a I had a client who was who, we used to joke around when we're when we're rich, we're gonna do da da da. You know? When when this when this project works, when we're rich. And he always used to say, Lika, you are rich. And, you know, I think there's something to be said about your mindset as well.
Lica Wouters:Like, especially when it comes to these things like success and money and, you know, even AI, right? Like, talk about surviving AI. And I don't think we're it's about surviving. I think it's building. And I've become a little bit more sensitive to the words that we use, because I do think they matter.
Lica Wouters:I think ultimately success is fulfillment, success is being at peace with yourself. That to me is success.