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The Open Pixel Team is back with a new episode focused on financial transparency. They hit on multiple facets of finance, be it your personal year-end financial posts, a client's budgetary disclosure, or our own financial numbers. If you love talking about transparency, this one's for you.
If you have a topic or question you’d like us to cover, you can submit it to www.openpixelstudios.com/podquestion
If you have a topic or question you’d like us to cover, you can submit it to www.openpixelstudios.com/podquestion
Learn more about this podcast here: https://www.openpixelstudios.com/behindthepixel
EMedia produces the podcast in Easthampton, MA.
Produced by Jackson Foote and Will Colón
Written and Created by:
Will Colón: https://www.linkedin.com/in/willmcolon/
Kathryn Taccone: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathryntaccone/
Creators & Guests
What is Behind The Pixel: Closing The Animation Communication Gap?
This podcast helps bridge the knowledge gaps between marketing and creative teams. Episodes explore how to communicate creatively, production hacks that save time, and unique solutions to ongoing creative problems.
Open Pixel Studios is a women-owned (WBENC) certified animation studio in Massachusetts that creates custom animated marketing content.
Hosts Will Colón and Kathryn Taccone are co-founders of Open Pixel Studios with years of industry experience in sales, marketing, animation, design, and education.
Submit a question to the pod! -> openpixelstudios.com/podquestion
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That's the whole idea.
00;00;01;25 - 00;00;05;06
Like, the only reason you're hiring me
is because you have a different goal.
00;00;05;06 - 00;00;07;16
You have a much more broader.
00;00;07;16 - 00;00;11;15
Here's what I'm trying to do to this
audience are here's what I'm trying to say
00;00;11;15 - 00;00;13;13
or here's what I'm trying to accomplish.
00;00;13;13 - 00;00;29;29
Let's help you get there.
00;00;30;01 - 00;00;31;13
Hello, everybody.
00;00;31;13 - 00;00;32;27
Welcome back.
00;00;32;27 - 00;00;36;12
On this glorious day of which I don't know
which day
00;00;36;12 - 00;00;38;13
you're watching
or listening to this podcast on.
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So happy
whatever day you're celebrating today.
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Happy days to you.
00;00;43;00 - 00;00;46;07
Happy days to you.
00;00;46;10 - 00;00;47;13
Totally there.
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This is behind the pixel
and Open Pixel podcast
00;00;49;27 - 00;00;53;02
where we try to bridge
the communication gap between those
00;00;53;02 - 00;00;56;17
who buy creative content
and those who make it now.
00;00;56;19 - 00;00;57;14
Hey, that's not bad.
00;00;57;14 - 00;00;59;24
That's better than I thought
you were going to do.
00;00;59;24 - 00;01;02;08
I'm on it. 24 seven.
00;01;02;08 - 00;01;07;22
You know,
I live, eat and breathe this podcast.
00;01;07;24 - 00;01;08;21
That's not true at all.
00;01;08;21 - 00;01;10;29
I have a very healthy boundary.
00;01;10;29 - 00;01;14;18
So today's episode is kind of
00;01;14;18 - 00;01;18;11
similar to an episode
we had previously where we kind of,
00;01;18;14 - 00;01;24;06
in a way, riffed a little bit,
reacted to a particular post that we saw
00;01;24;08 - 00;01;28;29
and kind of tried to give some insight
and some advice on the back
00;01;28;29 - 00;01;32;23
end about different ways
to approach that particular situation.
00;01;32;24 - 00;01;37;06
I think in the feed,
I think we called it an opinion episode.
00;01;37;10 - 00;01;38;28
That's what I tagged it as.
00;01;38;28 - 00;01;43;12
So every once in a while we'll do that
and there will still be some hacks
00;01;43;12 - 00;01;44;23
and B wipes and things like that.
00;01;44;23 - 00;01;46;11
But this is just a way to sort of fill
00;01;46;11 - 00;01;51;05
in the times when we're busy
and don't have that much time to prep.
00;01;51;07 - 00;01;52;14
Well,
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sure.
00;01;53;15 - 00;01;58;20
I guess that touches a little bit
on the subject of today's topic as well.
00;01;58;21 - 00;01;59;06
Okay.
00;01;59;06 - 00;02;02;06
Just in the idea of,
well, we'll get into it.
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Let's let's just jump in. Okay.
00;02;04;10 - 00;02;05;26
So you ready?
00;02;05;26 - 00;02;09;02
Do you have any other plugs
or any other things you want to get to?
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I got a haircut.
00;02;10;13 - 00;02;14;28
I was going to leave it long,
but I go, okay, I cut it a little bit.
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I just, you know,
I was getting a little too lazy.
00;02;19;27 - 00;02;21;29
Well, you looking real fly over there, so.
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Great. Thank you.
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Just in time for a podcast recording.
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Okay.
00;02;26;13 - 00;02;28;21
For context, Will has not heard this yet.
00;02;28;21 - 00;02;30;04
Maybe you've seen the post.
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I don't know. Maybe I don't know.
00;02;32;06 - 00;02;35;17
But yeah, I think we're going to hear
potentially your reaction here.
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But I'll read it word for word.
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For the sake of I guess, anonymity
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and anonymity, I won't anonymously.
00;02;44;12 - 00;02;47;29
I won't reveal the
the person's name who wrote this?
00;02;48;01 - 00;02;50;07
Yeah, we're going to
we're going to keep these anon.
00;02;50;07 - 00;02;53;02
Yeah. No.
I think that's what the kids say.
00;02;53;02 - 00;02;55;20
I'm pretty sure that's what they were.
Still so happy.
00;02;55;20 - 00;02;57;08
Okay, here we go.
00;02;57;08 - 00;03;01;07
I wonder why
small agencies and freelancers
00;03;01;10 - 00;03;03;25
post about how much money they make.
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Is this a credibility thing?
00;03;05;26 - 00;03;07;28
Is it to inspire people?
00;03;07;28 - 00;03;12;09
I guess the quote
my year break down, unquote
00;03;12;12 - 00;03;16;11
angle of this sort of spins
it as maybe educational.
00;03;16;14 - 00;03;20;08
I was always taught to be low key
about that stuff.
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Not to mention, I saw some big numbers
that made me question my life.
00;03;25;13 - 00;03;28;25
I'm genuinely curious
about the motivation behind it.
00;03;28;28 - 00;03;30;23
Do you have any insights?
00;03;30;23 - 00;03;33;11
Please respond within 10 minutes.
00;03;33;11 - 00;03;36;20
Devil Emoji.
00;03;36;23 - 00;03;39;21
So I think that yes, I think
00;03;39;21 - 00;03;45;19
that was a callback to the other post
that was Please respond in 10 minutes.
00;03;45;21 - 00;03;50;06
That's hilarious. Yes.
00;03;50;08 - 00;03;50;15
Okay.
00;03;50;15 - 00;03;52;17
That post
made some really big rounds, huh?
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It really did. It really. Did. Right.
00;03;55;07 - 00;03;56;12
So the idea, the reason
00;03;56;12 - 00;04;00;20
why I brought this particular topic up
just for some context, is that
00;04;00;23 - 00;04;04;07
in our company currently,
we were just going through
00;04;04;07 - 00;04;08;25
reevaluating our values
and what we want our company to stand for.
00;04;08;27 - 00;04;11;07
And one of the things that came up for us
00;04;11;07 - 00;04;15;00
was transparency
and transparent information.
00;04;15;03 - 00;04;19;01
We kind of tied that a little more
related to the information
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that is shared through our campaigns
and through our messaging.
00;04;21;26 - 00;04;24;02
Yeah, the work. The work. The work itself.
00;04;24;02 - 00;04;24;23
Yeah.
00;04;24;23 - 00;04;29;12
But, you know, it can also apply
to this idea of being more transparent
00;04;29;12 - 00;04;33;01
as a community and as an industry in terms
00;04;33;01 - 00;04;36;07
of sharing our financial information.
00;04;36;07 - 00;04;38;18
So I kind of wanted
to get your take on it.
00;04;38;18 - 00;04;42;11
I have a feeling it's going to be a little
bit different than how I feel about it.
00;04;42;14 - 00;04;45;00
But yeah, any initial reactions
or thoughts?
00;04;45;00 - 00;04;48;29
My initial reaction was like,
That's a great point.
00;04;49;03 - 00;04;52;08
I actually had the same feeling
when I've seen those posts.
00;04;52;09 - 00;04;56;23
So for those of you who don't know,
maybe aren't as active,
00;04;56;25 - 00;04;59;18
maybe on LinkedIn, I don't personally
have seen them on LinkedIn
00;04;59;18 - 00;05;05;16
because yeah, because I
that's the platform I use mostly, although
00;05;05;19 - 00;05;07;08
I am getting an Instagram.
00;05;07;08 - 00;05;09;25
Oh, there's the plug, you know.
00;05;09;25 - 00;05;10;17
What do I think?
00;05;10;17 - 00;05;13;13
I think I think transparency is great.
00;05;13;13 - 00;05;17;04
I am all for transparency
and I think it's your
00;05;17;07 - 00;05;21;07
I think it's your right to talk about
your numbers if you really wanted to.
00;05;21;08 - 00;05;27;06
I think one of the things
inside of our industry as like artists or,
00;05;27;09 - 00;05;31;07
you know, VFX is slightly different,
but kind of in the same boat.
00;05;31;09 - 00;05;33;25
It's the artists doing the work
behind the scenes.
00;05;33;25 - 00;05;37;05
And oftentimes the the people
00;05;37;05 - 00;05;41;16
running the show,
the people who are owners like us or,
00;05;41;19 - 00;05;46;07
you know, big giant corporation executives
that have boards and things like that.
00;05;46;10 - 00;05;49;02
They, in my opinion,
00;05;49;02 - 00;05;54;05
are are structured
so that information doesn't spread.
00;05;54;07 - 00;05;54;16
Right.
00;05;54;16 - 00;05;58;15
And there's been a lot of other things
that pop up legally,
00;05;58;17 - 00;06;01;02
like I think in New York now, it's illegal
00;06;01;02 - 00;06;05;04
to ask about your prior pay
or something like that.
00;06;05;05 - 00;06;06;29
There's like laws and.
00;06;06;29 - 00;06;08;09
Ask for your. Pay.
00;06;08;09 - 00;06;10;25
And if you're. Interviewing for a job.
Yeah.
00;06;10;25 - 00;06;12;09
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00;06;12;09 - 00;06;13;26
During interviews. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.
00;06;13;26 - 00;06;19;07
So, you know,
I think it's I think it's part of today's
00;06;19;10 - 00;06;25;23
sharing generation of being like, hey,
this is what I make and this is how
00;06;25;26 - 00;06;27;11
this is how I made that.
00;06;27;11 - 00;06;31;24
And I think that there is some value
to that as a as a fellow freelancer,
00;06;31;24 - 00;06;34;24
someone who's probably doing
something very similar.
00;06;34;26 - 00;06;38;28
You might feel like that's a really good
insight into how they did it.
00;06;39;03 - 00;06;41;24
You know,
how do they make that much money?
00;06;41;24 - 00;06;45;27
And if they broke it down
by like client type, I've seen that.
00;06;45;29 - 00;06;50;25
I've seen some like, here's my lowest
and here's my highest paying job.
00;06;50;27 - 00;06;56;05
You might not feel so alone in trying
to figure out, did I make a lot of money?
00;06;56;05 - 00;06;57;10
Did I not make a lot of money?
00;06;57;10 - 00;07;01;04
Like, why was it so low this year
or high this year or whatever?
00;07;01;04 - 00;07;03;23
Like, I think that's a good thing.
00;07;03;23 - 00;07;06;16
Like,
I think sharing your numbers is fine.
00;07;06;16 - 00;07;09;07
Honestly,
I think I'm coming to that conclusion.
00;07;09;07 - 00;07;13;11
I can see why it would make you question
your life choices
00;07;13;13 - 00;07;16;07
because some artists
make way more than other artists.
00;07;16;07 - 00;07;20;27
And and, you know, we run a studio,
we make probably more than a singular
00;07;20;27 - 00;07;21;06
artist.
00;07;21;06 - 00;07;25;28
So, like, you know, there's
there's different reasons for that.
00;07;26;01 - 00;07;27;07
And we could break down those reasons.
00;07;27;07 - 00;07;29;04
There's,
you know, obviously artistic skill,
00;07;29;04 - 00;07;32;04
but also the clients that you hold,
there's also like
00;07;32;11 - 00;07;35;07
your level of communication
with the client.
00;07;35;07 - 00;07;38;22
How well you communicate
is is a really big factor.
00;07;38;22 - 00;07;41;16
And I've heard it in a lot of podcasts
and a lot of places where like
00;07;41;16 - 00;07;45;12
the communication is actually primary
secondary to like the artistic work.
00;07;45;12 - 00;07;49;18
So a lot of folks try to like artistic
work is like
00;07;49;21 - 00;07;52;06
it's still super important, but
00;07;52;06 - 00;07;55;16
it's not as important
as being able to communicate clearly,
00;07;55;21 - 00;07;59;18
understand the problem, figure out
how your artwork is going to benefit
00;07;59;18 - 00;08;04;06
their pipeline or their workflow
and the end result of the piece right?
00;08;04;08 - 00;08;07;26
And this I'm just talking about animators,
not necessarily designers or,
00;08;07;29 - 00;08;09;07
you know, it's a different workflow
00;08;09;07 - 00;08;12;18
or approach depending on what
type of artistic work you do.
00;08;12;20 - 00;08;15;03
So yeah, I think it's a good thing.
00;08;15;03 - 00;08;16;19
Honestly,
00;08;16;21 - 00;08;17;13
I do.
00;08;17;13 - 00;08;21;23
I do see why it might be
harsh and jarring, and I think
00;08;21;26 - 00;08;24;22
there is another thing in there
in that post that said, like
00;08;24;22 - 00;08;27;12
I was taught to like keep this low key.
00;08;27;12 - 00;08;30;05
Yeah, I think that that is Yeah.
00;08;30;05 - 00;08;33;24
That's like bad. Yeah.
00;08;33;26 - 00;08;35;25
Right. That, that, that. It's.
00;08;35;25 - 00;08;40;04
Kind of like Yeah that gives me vibes of
like don't talk about your feelings
00;08;40;06 - 00;08;43;01
kind of or don't you know
don't bring up a certain thing
00;08;43;01 - 00;08;47;17
that's going on in your life
because it might be seen as like whatever.
00;08;47;19 - 00;08;49;21
Keeping stuff in is never good.
00;08;49;21 - 00;08;54;02
And I think part of don't talk about money
or keep money to yourself
00;08;54;02 - 00;08;55;12
or anything like that.
00;08;55;12 - 00;08;58;04
Now, that said, do
I feel like sharing my numbers?
00;08;58;04 - 00;09;01;27
No, not necessarily,
because no one is asking me about it.
00;09;01;29 - 00;09;03;16
Yeah, No one is asking me about it.
00;09;03;16 - 00;09;06;09
And I also I
you know, I just don't want to.
00;09;06;09 - 00;09;10;00
Yeah, this is where the idea of
this is where I knew you would.
00;09;10;00 - 00;09;10;26
You would take it.
00;09;10;26 - 00;09;11;21
Because I know that, like,
00;09;11;21 - 00;09;15;07
as a company, we have not shared
our financial information.
00;09;15;14 - 00;09;15;28
We have not.
00;09;15;28 - 00;09;20;03
I think it would depend on the intention
behind it.
00;09;20;04 - 00;09;24;08
Some of the comments that I saw
were On the one hand, you're talking about
00;09;24;08 - 00;09;28;02
the idea of like deconstructing
that idea of everyone
00;09;28;02 - 00;09;32;05
needs to keep their finances closed
and not share anything else.
00;09;32;05 - 00;09;34;12
So that, you know, it's
we're more competitive
00;09;34;12 - 00;09;35;01
or less or whatever,
00;09;35;01 - 00;09;37;05
whatever that reason might be,
which I agree
00;09;37;05 - 00;09;40;14
with the idea of deconstructing this
and being able to openly share
00;09;40;14 - 00;09;44;21
this is what we're making in my
but then there's also this idea of like
00;09;44;24 - 00;09;49;07
depending on in a way,
what your actual numbers are.
00;09;49;14 - 00;09;53;12
It could be seen as a form of clout,
like you're trying to say, like,
00;09;53;12 - 00;09;57;22
look how great we did this year, you know,
And it really depends on
00;09;57;24 - 00;10;00;16
how you're talking about it,
how you're framing it,
00;10;00;16 - 00;10;03;16
like what the intention
or the goal is behind sharing.
00;10;03;22 - 00;10;07;26
There's something to be acknowledged there
that I support the idea
00;10;07;26 - 00;10;12;07
of talking about,
like even open pixels finances.
00;10;12;07 - 00;10;17;11
We might disagree on that side,
but I believe in that idea of saying
00;10;17;13 - 00;10;20;21
this is why it's important to share it
00;10;20;24 - 00;10;23;29
as opposed to just saying,
okay, everyone's doing a year end
00;10;23;29 - 00;10;27;03
review, Here's my year end review,
which is, which is different,
00;10;27;03 - 00;10;31;19
I think, than than stating
this is what somebody could learn from it.
00;10;31;22 - 00;10;34;25
Yeah, I think that's what's missing for me
from that kind of post.
00;10;35;02 - 00;10;37;13
Like there's
no teaching there necessarily. There are.
00;10;37;13 - 00;10;39;26
There have been some that
that I mean, again,
00;10;39;26 - 00;10;41;20
I think you hit the nail on the head.
It's like what
00;10;41;20 - 00;10;44;20
your intention and what your messaging
is behind that type of post.
00;10;44;23 - 00;10;49;04
I think, you know, if you frame it around
the education, this is how I got here.
00;10;49;04 - 00;10;53;21
I did this, I did this
like you should do the same thing
00;10;53;24 - 00;10;56;13
or something similar
that might be more helpful
00;10;56;13 - 00;11;00;08
than just like, here are my numbers
because I think here my numbers kind of
00;11;00;11 - 00;11;04;09
miscues it towards,
Hey, look at me, this is what I did.
00;11;04;09 - 00;11;06;09
And like
00;11;06;11 - 00;11;09;07
maybe there's a you could do it too
but that yeah yeah.
00;11;09;07 - 00;11;11;10
You need the how right like how you need.
00;11;11;10 - 00;11;13;12
To how. How you got there. Yeah.
00;11;13;12 - 00;11;14;10
Mm hmm.
00;11;14;10 - 00;11;14;21
Yeah.
00;11;14;21 - 00;11;16;24
And then the other thing too, is that I.
00;11;16;24 - 00;11;22;10
I don't want to derail the idea
that you're an artist because of money.
00;11;22;10 - 00;11;23;08
Like, there's a,
00;11;23;08 - 00;11;27;12
you know, there's a form of, like, hey,
this is how much money I made.
00;11;27;12 - 00;11;30;12
You should be making
that same amount of dollars.
00;11;30;12 - 00;11;34;02
And that's not necessarily true
because the type of artwork or the type
00;11;34;02 - 00;11;38;13
of topics or the type of passions
that you have aren't the same.
00;11;38;13 - 00;11;39;29
They're not going to be the same,
00;11;39;29 - 00;11;42;01
and your artistic skills
aren't going to be the same.
00;11;42;01 - 00;11;46;08
So I think that there's yeah, there's
like a form of separation where like,
00;11;46;11 - 00;11;47;18
I don't want to just,
00;11;47;18 - 00;11;50;18
you know, send people off and say, here's
my here's our numbers.
00;11;50;21 - 00;11;53;05
If you're a small student,
you should be doing these numbers too.
00;11;53;05 - 00;11;56;05
Now it's like we focus on X, Y, Z,
00;11;56;10 - 00;11;59;00
and this is how we got here.
00;11;59;00 - 00;12;04;10
And that's maybe something you could do
if you tweak that formula a bit, you know?
00;12;04;11 - 00;12;05;16
Right, Right.
00;12;05;16 - 00;12;06;19
No, that's very true.
00;12;06;19 - 00;12;06;27
Yeah.
00;12;06;27 - 00;12;10;26
I think if we do talk about our numbers,
I'd want to think about it
00;12;10;26 - 00;12;15;27
from the perspective of why
we're also choosing those numbers.
00;12;15;27 - 00;12;17;00
Not necessarily.
00;12;17;00 - 00;12;20;18
And I don't even know if it's necessary
to say, here's what we make.
00;12;20;18 - 00;12;23;18
I think it's for me, it's more important
to maybe share.
00;12;23;19 - 00;12;26;03
Here's what we charge
and here's why we charge it.
00;12;26;03 - 00;12;29;10
And here's like
because I think that's a different model.
00;12;29;17 - 00;12;33;22
If I came out and said, Oh, I made,
you know, $100,000 this year,
00;12;33;24 - 00;12;37;24
but my situation, like you were
saying, is very different from yours.
00;12;37;26 - 00;12;38;05
Right?
00;12;38;05 - 00;12;42;23
That's a that's a different angle
than saying, here's what we charge,
00;12;42;23 - 00;12;48;01
here's why we charge it, and here's
how you can think about charging either
00;12;48;01 - 00;12;51;26
similar rates or different rates
depending on your circumstances.
00;12;51;28 - 00;12;54;26
What is in that that changes
the entire type of a post, right?
00;12;54;26 - 00;12;55;06
I know.
00;12;55;06 - 00;12;57;09
I think that's that
that's the other thing is like if you're
00;12;57;09 - 00;13;00;12
if you're going to do a year and numbers
review post,
00;13;00;12 - 00;13;03;11
then then you're expected to be like,
here's my numbers.
00;13;03;11 - 00;13;06;00
And then like, that's it. That's the post.
00;13;06;00 - 00;13;08;28
That's why we didn't really do one,
because that's not necessarily
00;13;08;28 - 00;13;09;22
what's helpful.
00;13;09;22 - 00;13;12;01
I think, you know, being helpful
online is kind of.
00;13;12;01 - 00;13;13;25
I guess it depends. Yeah. Yeah.
00;13;13;25 - 00;13;17;13
That's in the that's in the post straight
because like does it.
00;13;17;13 - 00;13;21;06
In the eye of the
it's. In the eye of the post,
00;13;21;09 - 00;13;24;07
eye of the post beholder or whatever
whatever you call it.
00;13;24;07 - 00;13;25;14
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;13;25;14 - 00;13;29;03
I think because there are people out there
who have definitely done
00;13;29;05 - 00;13;32;20
really detailed breakdowns
and have continued
00;13;32;20 - 00;13;36;29
to also provide resources
to creatives and freelancers about the
00;13;36;29 - 00;13;41;06
how maybe, you know, because you,
you can't do it all in one post.
00;13;41;09 - 00;13;43;04
That's, that's the thing about it too.
00;13;43;04 - 00;13;45;03
Yeah. You do have a limit.
Yeah that's. True. Yeah.
00;13;45;03 - 00;13;49;03
So you might have a numbers in review post
but then also continue to post.
00;13;49;03 - 00;13;50;20
Here's how we got there.
00;13;50;20 - 00;13;52;29
Here's
what our goals are for next quarter.
00;13;52;29 - 00;13;56;10
Like that
I think is not a bad thing at all.
00;13;56;10 - 00;13;58;14
I think that's a great thing to do.
00;13;58;14 - 00;14;01;14
And then yeah, the other thing
I want to tie this back to like
00;14;01;14 - 00;14;04;10
clients and, and communication
folks, right?
00;14;04;10 - 00;14;06;24
Like so nonprofits,
00;14;06;24 - 00;14;11;29
if you're a nonprofit listening,
your numbers are disclosed automatically.
00;14;12;02 - 00;14;14;04
They're publicly available.
00;14;14;04 - 00;14;16;01
Yeah, you're publicly available.
00;14;16;01 - 00;14;19;27
You can go and see how much money
someone spent an organization
00;14;19;27 - 00;14;22;16
spent on marketing or communications.
00;14;22;16 - 00;14;25;01
You could go
and see how much money they made total,
00;14;25;01 - 00;14;28;28
how many dollars in the bank,
like that's it's already there.
00;14;28;29 - 00;14;31;22
A lot of people don't look one
because they don't know where to look
00;14;31;22 - 00;14;34;27
but to because you know
who's really paying attention
00;14;34;27 - 00;14;36;28
when they have their own problems
kind of thing.
00;14;36;28 - 00;14;39;24
So like, that's one version of it.
00;14;39;24 - 00;14;43;13
The other version is publicly held
companies, right?
00;14;43;13 - 00;14;46;27
They have disclosures of similar things.
00;14;46;27 - 00;14;48;10
If you listen to like Yahoo!
00;14;48;10 - 00;14;51;15
Finance, every so often they're like,
you know,
00;14;51;18 - 00;14;55;22
Tesla had X amount of dollars
last quarter, you know, whatever, whatever
00;14;55;22 - 00;14;58;22
in the earnings meeting they talked about,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00;14;58;22 - 00;15;01;28
So all of that, the numbers are disclosed.
00;15;01;28 - 00;15;05;26
It's just you might not be in those
circles listening to those dollar amounts.
00;15;05;26 - 00;15;09;04
And so as an artist,
I guess if you're listening to this,
00;15;09;07 - 00;15;12;01
you're saying, okay, well,
maybe you didn't know that.
00;15;12;01 - 00;15;13;08
I don't know.
00;15;13;08 - 00;15;15;27
That might be something
to think about as a private company.
00;15;15;27 - 00;15;19;00
Those are the only ones that I think
don't have disclosures.
00;15;19;02 - 00;15;23;28
One of the things that clients do that
that is also on the side of,
00;15;23;28 - 00;15;29;01
you know, transparency or not
transparency is coming up with budgets
00;15;29;04 - 00;15;31;26
which are set somewhere.
00;15;31;26 - 00;15;34;19
I know they are
because I know it works, right?
00;15;34;19 - 00;15;36;11
If you're a marketer,
you've set the budget for the year
00;15;36;11 - 00;15;39;29
probably in January
or in Q1 or Q4 of last year
00;15;40;02 - 00;15;45;00
and you know how much money you have
and then you say, well, we have a project.
00;15;45;02 - 00;15;47;27
Here's the thing and
00;15;47;29 - 00;15;48;22
tell me what it costs.
00;15;48;22 - 00;15;49;11
What's your budget?
00;15;49;11 - 00;15;51;22
I don't know yet. Just tell me what it is.
00;15;51;22 - 00;15;52;11
You see what I mean?
00;15;52;11 - 00;15;56;12
Like there's a level of like dishonesty
there
00;15;56;15 - 00;16;00;06
that that happens and that's that like,
I guess is okay because you're trying
00;16;00;06 - 00;16;02;05
to get the best deal,
like you're incentivized
00;16;02;05 - 00;16;04;25
as an organization
to get the best deal possible.
00;16;04;25 - 00;16;08;26
Yeah, but you can say that that happens
with companies and freelancers too, right?
00;16;08;26 - 00;16;10;16
Because they're. Oh, Oh. Yeah, yeah.
00;16;10;16 - 00;16;11;05
That's what I'm talking about.
00;16;11;05 - 00;16;13;24
If you come at a freelancer
and you're like, Hey, what's your rate?
00;16;13;24 - 00;16;17;14
Versus like, I think a lot of times
when we come at it, we usually say like,
00;16;17;21 - 00;16;21;27
here's what our project budget is and
like, here's what we can work with then.
00;16;21;29 - 00;16;25;25
And then also saying like, we want to hire
you for the rate that you have.
00;16;25;29 - 00;16;29;29
And if they ever ask why, I usually
break it down really deeply.
00;16;30;02 - 00;16;32;24
Yeah, I feel like there's that level
00;16;32;24 - 00;16;36;12
of transparency that has to happen
within the organizations too.
00;16;36;12 - 00;16;36;24
You're right.
00;16;36;24 - 00;16;39;23
Within the client,
you know, vendor relationship
00;16;39;23 - 00;16;43;22
and within the studio freelancer
relationship for sure.
00;16;43;25 - 00;16;44;05
Yeah.
00;16;44;05 - 00;16;47;05
And if a client comes to you
and says, like,
00;16;47;11 - 00;16;49;22
I have this project, what's the budget?
00;16;49;22 - 00;16;52;05
I don't know. Tell me what it will cost.
00;16;52;05 - 00;16;54;26
And to me, I kind of want to say, Well,
00;16;54;26 - 00;16;58;18
I don't know what it will cost
to tell me what your budget is like.
00;16;58;23 - 00;17;00;18
There's a level of pushback.
00;17;00;18 - 00;17;02;26
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know what's your budget?
00;17;02;26 - 00;17;06;13
And then this is, this is where I think
that value based pricing comes in.
00;17;06;13 - 00;17;10;20
Well, what's your goal
and how are you trying to get there?
00;17;10;22 - 00;17;12;01
Let's help you get there.
00;17;12;01 - 00;17;14;18
And you pay me 10% of getting there.
00;17;14;18 - 00;17;16;26
And you know, what's that cost to you?
00;17;16;26 - 00;17;19;05
What is it worth to you to do this thing?
00;17;19;05 - 00;17;21;27
And I think that that's a it's a
it's a much better model.
00;17;21;27 - 00;17;25;24
I'm not saying we practice it here, but
having that conversation is very important
00;17;25;24 - 00;17;29;08
and just taking the leap to say like,
Hey, again, for marketers, communication
00;17;29;08 - 00;17;33;10
people, nonprofits, people who are
in the buying position here expect that
00;17;33;15 - 00;17;38;11
to come at some point from more people
because that's the whole idea.
00;17;38;11 - 00;17;41;23
Like the only reason you're hiring me
is because you have a different goal.
00;17;41;23 - 00;17;47;14
You have a much more broader here's what
I'm trying to do to these this audience.
00;17;47;14 - 00;17;50;13
So here's what I'm trying to say or here's
what I'm trying to accomplish.
00;17;50;13 - 00;17;52;17
Let's help you get there, right?
00;17;52;17 - 00;17;56;00
Let's help
you get to that place. Rather than saying
00;17;56;02 - 00;17;59;00
what are the dollars and cents
that are going to get us to this place.
00;17;59;00 - 00;17;59;11
Yeah.
00;17;59;11 - 00;18;01;13
So I'm totally with you on the value based
00;18;01;13 - 00;18;05;14
pricing side and right for that
for our transparency sake, we
00;18;05;17 - 00;18;08;06
we use a day rate currently,
which is a little bit different.
00;18;08;06 - 00;18;12;00
We use a day rate on a sliding scale
depending on the type of project,
00;18;12;00 - 00;18;15;01
the style type,
which I think we've talked about
00;18;15;01 - 00;18;18;22
so many times
and yet no one really gets it.
00;18;18;24 - 00;18;20;01
Style type changes.
00;18;20;01 - 00;18;23;27
It's really, for us, a four quadrant style
type thing.
00;18;23;29 - 00;18;25;15
I. Like, I could reveal.
00;18;25;15 - 00;18;26;21
For another day.
00;18;26;21 - 00;18;27;17
You know, as I go out.
00;18;27;17 - 00;18;29;16
Okay. Yeah,
we should know. We should. I have.
00;18;29;16 - 00;18;31;10
That's a. Tease. That's a tease.
00;18;31;10 - 00;18;35;26
For a future conversation.
00;18;35;29 - 00;18;36;08
Yeah.
00;18;36;08 - 00;18;38;08
No, it's an interesting topic.
I mean, I think don't.
00;18;38;08 - 00;18;40;01
I don't think
I would actually ever disclose
00;18;40;01 - 00;18;43;06
my numbers, honestly,
because every year is different.
00;18;43;09 - 00;18;47;18
Every year is like it's super high or
super low and like, it's a rollercoaster.
00;18;47;21 - 00;18;49;25
It's a roller coaster
00;18;49;25 - 00;18;52;10
financially, when you own a business.
00;18;52;10 - 00;18;53;02
So I also.
00;18;53;02 - 00;18;54;01
Want to acknowledge there
00;18;54;01 - 00;18;57;10
that that might also depend
on your financial structure, right?
00;18;57;10 - 00;18;59;19
In our case, I'm I'm happy to share that.
00;18;59;19 - 00;19;04;21
Like we basically bootstrap everything
so we don't have investors,
00;19;04;21 - 00;19;08;20
we don't have loans,
we don't have debt, which is a wonderful.
00;19;08;22 - 00;19;11;10
We have we have a tiny bit of debt
because we have a credit card.
00;19;11;10 - 00;19;12;11
But that's true.
00;19;12;11 - 00;19;15;25
Yeah, but that's
but that's like our personal choice
00;19;15;25 - 00;19;18;01
in terms of how we manage our finances.
00;19;18;01 - 00;19;22;24
And so I think it's probably where I feel
the need to share
00;19;22;24 - 00;19;26;05
transparency is on that front to tell
people like
00;19;26;05 - 00;19;29;05
these are the different types
of financial models you can get into.
00;19;29;10 - 00;19;34;23
Here are the pros and cons of it
and you know, as owners, I think it's also
00;19;34;25 - 00;19;38;24
I think it's also important
to like this dynamic right here of like
00;19;38;27 - 00;19;42;04
I would personally be comfortable
sharing our numbers
00;19;42;11 - 00;19;44;02
and Will's not as comfortable.
00;19;44;02 - 00;19;48;13
Like, it's
my responsibility as an owner and a leader
00;19;48;13 - 00;19;52;21
and somebody who respects Will
to also be mindful of his boundaries here.
00;19;52;23 - 00;19;55;21
And so like
if you don't see if you don't see a post
00;19;55;21 - 00;19;57;29
about us sharing our numbers,
you can just blame Will.
00;19;57;29 - 00;19;58;29
That's really.
00;19;58;29 - 00;20;01;21
Oh, wow, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
00;20;01;21 - 00;20;03;09
Firing the shots?
00;20;03;09 - 00;20;05;04
No, no, I think it's more.
00;20;05;04 - 00;20;06;02
No, that's fine. Blame me.
00;20;06;02 - 00;20;06;12
No, no.
00;20;06;12 - 00;20;07;01
Absolutely.
00;20;07;01 - 00;20;09;25
I will take no,
but there is something to that.
00;20;09;25 - 00;20;14;01
I don't think we talk about a lot
in terms of like owners having
00;20;14;07 - 00;20;16;07
and this is
I think we should get into this more.
00;20;16;07 - 00;20;19;27
But just the idea that like as owners,
you might have differing opinions
00;20;19;27 - 00;20;24;15
and how you go about making decisions
is going to be reliant on
00;20;24;18 - 00;20;28;19
where you both trust each other,
where you both like are comfortable,
00;20;28;19 - 00;20;32;03
where you're both like, this is a boundary
and I'm not going to cross it.
00;20;32;03 - 00;20;33;12
Like, you know what I mean?
00;20;33;12 - 00;20;35;07
There's
just there's something to that, too.
00;20;35;07 - 00;20;38;07
I think there's a different dynamic
from sharing your numbers when you're
00;20;38;07 - 00;20;43;26
an individual versus
your like in a multi person company
00;20;43;29 - 00;20;47;27
in terms of founding and like investor
structure and all that kind of stuff.
00;20;47;27 - 00;20;48;29
Yeah, that's a good point.
00;20;48;29 - 00;20;51;19
As it as an individual,
you can just share whatever you want.
00;20;51;19 - 00;20;54;26
One thing that it just reminded me
when you're talking
00;20;54;29 - 00;20;57;11
is the one of the bigger reasons.
00;20;57;11 - 00;20;59;05
I think that I don't want
to share my numbers or
00;20;59;05 - 00;21;03;11
our numbers is because of the posts
that you just brought up.
00;21;03;11 - 00;21;06;11
Like the fact that you like
this person's like,
00;21;06;17 - 00;21;09;17
it made me question
everything about my life.
00;21;09;23 - 00;21;14;05
I don't want to cause that, you know,
that emotional pain to someone online.
00;21;14;05 - 00;21;17;02
I don't want I like
I don't want to be the source of like,
00;21;17;02 - 00;21;22;20
you know, jealousy or sadness or whatever
for this other person on the other end.
00;21;22;20 - 00;21;24;12
Like, that's just not what I want to do.
00;21;24;12 - 00;21;28;24
So, you know, I could see how a post
like that could lead there very easily,
00;21;28;24 - 00;21;32;00
very quickly to be like,
Oh my God, I've been doing animation for,
00;21;32;03 - 00;21;33;19
you know, 20 years.
00;21;33;19 - 00;21;35;11
And this person who just started
00;21;35;11 - 00;21;37;27
is making ten times
more than I've ever made in my life.
00;21;37;27 - 00;21;39;08
Like, that's that's huge.
00;21;39;08 - 00;21;40;24
Like, you know, I don't know.
00;21;40;24 - 00;21;45;29
It's yeah, social media
is a very easy place to kind of
00;21;46;02 - 00;21;49;13
start feeling that self-doubt and
that insecurity about what you're doing.
00;21;49;13 - 00;21;51;17
So I totally get where you're coming from.
00;21;51;17 - 00;21;55;16
I think that I will say
to those who who do post
00;21;55;16 - 00;21;59;14
and are transparent about their numbers,
I say, more power to you if you like.
00;21;59;18 - 00;22;02;03
You know,
if you're educating along the way
00;22;02;03 - 00;22;04;20
and you're teaching people
how to do it, like awesome.
00;22;04;20 - 00;22;07;13
I think we're happy
to support on that front.
00;22;07;13 - 00;22;11;08
And so I think, you know, sure, maybe I'm
speaking on behalf of both of us,
00;22;11;08 - 00;22;14;13
but I feel like I'd want to join in
00;22;14;13 - 00;22;18;15
on that conversation
of at least the education aspect of.
00;22;18;15 - 00;22;21;14
It, of the how. Yeah, of the how for sure.
00;22;21;14 - 00;22;21;22
Yeah.
00;22;21;22 - 00;22;26;11
That's the that's where
I can stretch to you and compromise on.
00;22;26;13 - 00;22;26;19
Yeah.
00;22;26;19 - 00;22;28;12
One of the numbers. Yeah.
00;22;28;12 - 00;22;32;13
The other thing that's in my head too
is that like you know our industry again
00;22;32;18 - 00;22;35;18
artists working
behind the scenes making it happen.
00;22;35;24 - 00;22;39;07
There have been several times in history
00;22;39;07 - 00;22;42;13
where in history in our recent history
00;22;42;15 - 00;22;47;07
that we're all sharing our numbers on
like a Google sheet.
00;22;47;10 - 00;22;48;27
Yeah, the. Spreadsheet, Google Drive.
00;22;48;27 - 00;22;52;05
Doc Yeah, there's so many that I've been
I have a whole air table
00;22;52;05 - 00;22;55;23
of like people's salaries
and like, anonymously.
00;22;55;23 - 00;22;59;11
But you know how much people make
at Nickelodeon or how much people
00;22;59;11 - 00;23;02;17
make and, you know,
all these other big, large studios.
00;23;02;17 - 00;23;05;17
You know, there's a big spreadsheet
out there that like, yeah, you can.
00;23;05;18 - 00;23;08;05
And the numbers are wildly different.
00;23;08;05 - 00;23;09;24
They literally, yeah, entirely different.
00;23;09;24 - 00;23;14;24
And so creating that transparency
will also lead to maybe more conversations
00;23;14;24 - 00;23;19;03
like this, more conversations about,
you know, what are people making and why?
00;23;19;07 - 00;23;20;27
Why is it so different?
00;23;20;27 - 00;23;25;17
You know, how come females are making
less, Why're minorities making less?
00;23;25;19 - 00;23;27;26
Why are you know,
00;23;27;28 - 00;23;30;17
how come one person who's been in
the industry
00;23;30;17 - 00;23;32;05
is making way more than this person?
00;23;32;05 - 00;23;34;18
Like there are different answers to that.
00;23;34;18 - 00;23;38;08
Some of them are great and acceptable and
some of them are not acceptable at all.
00;23;38;08 - 00;23;38;17
Yeah.
00;23;38;17 - 00;23;41;09
Why is there a job application
for an AA role?
00;23;41;09 - 00;23;43;22
That's $1,000,000 a year.
00;23;43;22 - 00;23;45;05
Million dollar AA role?
00;23;45;05 - 00;23;49;07
Yeah, I wanted to segment that,
but that just it's not going to work out
00;23;49;07 - 00;23;50;09
for me. I'm also.
00;23;50;09 - 00;23;53;00
Yeah, I think I.
00;23;53;00 - 00;23;54;29
Oh God, I don't think.
00;23;54;29 - 00;23;57;26
I don't think we could ever work together
if you did.
00;23;57;26 - 00;24;00;19
You know, I would just type away
my creative thoughts.
00;24;00;19 - 00;24;01;23
Oh boy.
00;24;01;23 - 00;24;04;12
That's a that's a topic for another day.
00;24;04;12 - 00;24;06;07
Let me just type in my creative thoughts.
00;24;06;07 - 00;24;09;19
Eventually,
Elon Musk will create the neuro link,
00;24;09;19 - 00;24;12;12
and I'll just be able to think my creative
thoughts. And then.
00;24;12;12 - 00;24;13;15
And then it'll happen.
00;24;13;15 - 00;24;14;29
Total quick side tangent.
00;24;14;29 - 00;24;19;00
We had a better idea
once that was Elon's musk
00;24;19;00 - 00;24;24;09
and it was a perfume cologne
that smelt like Elon Musk.
00;24;24;11 - 00;24;25;07
Yeah.
00;24;25;07 - 00;24;28;13
So it's this was a bad idea.
00;24;28;15 - 00;24;30;03
Yeah. Yeah.
00;24;30;03 - 00;24;32;11
Well, thank you so much for listening.
00;24;32;11 - 00;24;34;23
This is conversation I think. Yeah.
00;24;34;23 - 00;24;36;16
If you have any comments.
00;24;36;16 - 00;24;41;03
I would be curious to hear what your take
is on, on this transparency side
00;24;41;03 - 00;24;41;28
of sharing numbers
00;24;41;28 - 00;24;45;20
and like what it's done for you,
whether positively or negatively.
00;24;45;20 - 00;24;50;04
And I do feel strongly
about this idea of deconstructing this
00;24;50;06 - 00;24;54;02
this like secrecy behind everything,
you know, just for some transparency
00;24;54;02 - 00;24;57;27
here as well, like as as owners,
I think we're trying to
00;24;57;29 - 00;25;01;18
if we're defining transparency
as a value in our company
00;25;01;18 - 00;25;05;11
now, we need to define
tangibly what that means for us.
00;25;05;13 - 00;25;07;18
And so when this conversation came.
00;25;07;18 - 00;25;10;17
Up, how are we
how how are we living that value?
00;25;10;17 - 00;25;11;17
Yes, exactly.
00;25;11;17 - 00;25;14;01
And so there might be
there might still be boundaries there.
00;25;14;01 - 00;25;17;24
There might still be like conversations
that we have yet to tap into.
00;25;17;24 - 00;25;19;11
I think this was one of them.
00;25;19;11 - 00;25;22;10
So I'm I'm glad we we touched on it.
00;25;22;13 - 00;25;26;06
And I hope maybe that the listeners
got a little bit of insight
00;25;26;08 - 00;25;30;01
and maybe some transparency
into like how we talk about these things
00;25;30;01 - 00;25;35;01
and how we operate a little bit more
where we're defining transparency well.
00;25;35;04 - 00;25;36;28
We'll let you know where we get where.
00;25;36;28 - 00;25;40;05
But the conclusion of that
is throughout the year.
00;25;40;07 - 00;25;43;15
Yeah, I hope you found this interesting
and feel free
00;25;43;15 - 00;25;47;24
to leave your reactions
to our reactions to their reactions.
00;25;47;27 - 00;25;50;11
Give, take it, Give us your takes.
00;25;50;11 - 00;25;51;05
It takes a lot to take.
00;25;51;05 - 00;25;56;04
Bo Burnham level
reaction to your reaction.
00;25;56;06 - 00;25;56;18
If you haven't
00;25;56;18 - 00;25;59;25
seen it, you should watch his reaction
video.
00;25;59;25 - 00;26;01;10
It's great.
00;26;01;10 - 00;26;05;12
So this is a side thing we can kind of
00;26;05;14 - 00;26;10;21
I listen to Bo Burnham when I work out. HE
00;26;10;24 - 00;26;11;10
Yeah. Yeah.
00;26;11;10 - 00;26;13;08
Great way to work out. Yeah.
00;26;13;08 - 00;26;14;09
That's a choice.
00;26;14;09 - 00;26;17;23
That is a choice. I love. I love his work.
00;26;17;26 - 00;26;18;14
Oh yeah.
00;26;18;14 - 00;26;21;14
So, but yeah, that's,
that's a choice of the two.
00;26;21;14 - 00;26;24;01
Okay,
so stay tuned for all the excitement.
00;26;24;01 - 00;26;26;12
Of, of what we have teasing.
00;26;26;12 - 00;26;27;14
Yeah. Thank you for listening.
00;26;27;14 - 00;26;32;04
And we will see you next time. See,
00;26;32;06 - 00;26;35;12
this episode was brought to you
by EA Media.
00;26;35;14 - 00;26;37;02
Our producer is Jackson Foote.
00;26;37;02 - 00;26;40;07
Our music was created by Hidden
and licensed from Premium BET.com
00;26;40;12 - 00;26;42;28
and until next time. Stay honest.
00;26;42;28 - 00;26;44;24
Stay creative. Stay open.
00;26;44;24 - 00;26;45;17
Up in big cities.
00;26;45;17 - 00;26;48;17
We will see you
in the next episode. Thank.