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Where food opens the door to conversations about craft, culture & tradition.
Tiffany: I have lost count of the number
of times people have sent me a picture
of some random cut of meat, top, you
know, fuzzy picture of a mushroom or a
foraged plant and asked, "What do I do
with this?" Today's guest created what I
and many, many other people consider to be
definitive guides to answer that question.
His books are where I direct
most people and where I go myself
if I'm unsure what to do with a
wobbly bit or new wild ingredient.
I am so happy to sit down and
talk to my friend Hank Shaw today.
Welcome.
Hank: Thanks for having me on.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Um, so we are here to talk about
a number of things, but namely
the new release of your new book.
Super, super exciting.
I read through this.
It's, um, it's very Hank Shaw.
Like, you read it and you're
like… I mean, I don't know if
you can see back there, I've got- I
Hank: ca-
Tiffany: I can … the, the other odds.
But, like, there's… You have a, a
voice of authority that, that others
just don't have, and reading through
it and, um, what, what kept coming
to mind to me is that you wrote this
book 10 years ago, re-released it- I
wanna know what you changed your mind
about that necessitated a new book.
Hank: It was really kind of evolution.
Yeah.
Um, I mean, if you think about really
kinda anything that you do- Mm-hmm … um,
whether it's art or music or cooking or,
or you name it, some- some sort of skill
that you've d- that you're passionate
about, and now think about how much better
you are now than you were 10 years ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Hank: Um, it's, it's, it's
kind of a normal impulse.
Um, I think the beauty of this
is because I control this book.
I po- this is the… The original book
was the original Kickstarter that I did
back in 2015, and- Wow … so I had the
ability to, to revise it, upgrade it,
and I kept just going back to it over
the last, you know, eight, eight years
or so and be like, "Mm, I don't know.
I don't really do that, that anymore,"
or, um, people are getting confused
about this particular thing or in
some cases, like, oh, well, that
recipe, I guess, nobody liked.
Um- And I mean- So what,
Tiffany: what, what recipe
did people not like?
Hank: Oh, there were a few.
Yeah.
I think the two most prominent
was the food plot stew- Okay
which I liked.
I like that stew.
It's, it's basically it's based
off of the idea, um, that if
you buy a bag of food plot-
Speaker 3: Mm
…
Hank: you know, food plot seeds or
whatever, and, and to, you know,
to grow bigger deer, you know?
Yeah.
And if you look at it,
um, it's all edible.
Like, damn near- Yeah … everything
in the, in that seed mix is edible.
So I'm like, "Well, hmm, okay.
Well, what if I created a stew out of the
things-" Mm. "… like, that, that are
attracting the deer and then the deer,"
and it's a great, it's a great stew.
It's a cool idea.
I think people who… I think people
got a little f- freaked out on the
idea of, like, you know, a food plot.
Um-
Tiffany: I think, I think it's a great
idea, the idea that, like, you eat what,
like, what you've hunted eats as well.
Yeah.
Like, food that grows together goes…
It just, I think it makes sense.
But-
Hank: I mean, I do it all the time.
Yeah.
It just lets out what it
gets, and be like mer, mer.
Um- Yeah.
The other one was the, the
German liver dumpling, and-
Tiffany: Okay
…
Hank: RIP li- liver dumpling.
RIP.
Yeah.
So that is the answer to
the question that- Okay
people ask me all the time, "What is the
recipe that is, like, the hardest or the
one that you-" You know, that you had
to work the hardest to get into a book.
Yeah.
And it is the German liver dumpling,
uh, that is no longer in Buck Buck
Moose because- Yeah … 13, 13, count
them, five, 10, 13- … different
iterations went into that recipe to
make a dumpling that I would eat.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Uh, I, I'm not saying
that it's the thing that I
would want on my deathbed meal.
Um- But it's good.
It's a d- Yeah … it's a decent dumpling.
Yeah.
And, you know, you're… it's coming
from a guy who doesn't really love liver,
and apparently, like, nobody made it.
And-
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay
…
Hank: I didn't love it as much.
Like, contra- compare that to the
tripe recipe, which is still in there.
Yeah.
Um, I really do like that tripe
recipe, so that's, that's a…
There's two reasons why that stayed.
One, I believe it is the only venison
tripe recipe in the English language.
Like, I don't believe
anybody's ever, ever- I've
Tiffany: never seen it.
Hank: Yeah, anywhere.
And- I
Tiffany: mean, like, talking about how
to clean it, that was, like, a whole…
I've never seen that in a book before.
Hank: Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm keeping it, man.
Yeah.
Because, and plus the, the end
result dish is really good.
Tiffany: Yeah.
I think tripe's super underrated though.
I think people have had too much, like-
Stinky … smells like wet dog- Yeah
… sort of- Or worse … nasty tripe.
Yeah.
Hank: Yeah.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Yeah,
Hank: totally.
Barnyard smell.
Tiffany: Yes, barnyard.
Barnyard, that's right.
Yeah.
Hank: I think by, but beyond to answer
your question, um- It was just a
lot of things changed in 10 years.
Yeah.
Uh, the science changed behind a
lot of things that I wrote about.
Um, I also r- I responded heavily to
people's questions about, um, could you
add more recipes for, like, a weeknight?
And could you add more, uh,
instructions for our time-saving things?
Because, I th- i- it became very clear to
me that my, uh, privilege of working from
home, uh, affects the way I write recipes.
Yeah.
So because I work from home, there is
no reason to, for me to use a Crock-Pot.
Yeah.
Just isn't.
Like, um, or a Instant Pot or, you know…
I mean, a, a, an air fryer I could
use, but there's a lot of the
kinda newfangled stuff, and not
that Crock-Pots are newfangled,
but, um, that, that I don't need.
So, but a lotta people do.
So what I ended up doing with this new
edition was including instructions,
"Okay, so if you wanna use a slow
cooker or if you wanna use an Instant
Pot or an air fryer or sous vide even,
um, here are your tips and tricks to
do it," throughout the whole book.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Hank: So that, I think, makes
the book a lot more useful.
Speaker 3: Mm.
Hank: Sort of added on to that is I
got a lotta questions about canning.
Right.
And, um, y- freezer space is at a premium.
Yeah.
I mean, if you're, especially if
you're, like, a really big el-
you know, like, an elk hunter
or a moose hunter, I'm like, uh-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: I mean, bro.
Tiffany: There's a lot
of meat you can can.
Hank: Right?
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Um, so I, I have an entire
section now on the ins and outs
of, of canning venison and-
Mm … on, you know, what I like.
Mm. 'Cause I think what I like is probably
more similar to what other people like.
I mean, the, what I'm driving at is plain
canned venison in a jar- Can't do it, man.
It st- Yeah … it smells like Alpo.
Tiffany: Yeah, it, it does.
There is a sort of a
dog food element to it.
I have done it with moose, and it's
like, it, it's that one thing that sits
there that doesn't- Mm-hmm … get used,
'cause I'm like, "Okay, what am I gonna
turn this into?" Like, it, at that point
it's like, it's not great in a stew.
Like, I've sort of…
It's like emergency food.
You know, you're like, "Maybe throw it
into a soup." But yeah, you, you have this
whole, like the idea of like make the dish
that you're gonna make, and then can that.
Yep.
Uh, that's, that's not, you
know, that's not a common thing.
People are just like, "Ah, just throw the
meat in a jar and can it," and you know.
It's nice to see how to properly
can it too, not, not like some
stuff you see on the internet where
they're just water bath canning meat.
That like scares the bejesus- Oh … out
Hank: of me.
I'm looking at you, Newfoundland.
Tiffany: I know, that's
what I was gonna say.
I didn't wanna call- … anybody out, but
those guys in Newfoundland are just like,
"We've been doing this for 50 years."
I'm like, "How is no one dead?" Like, I
don't… Maybe it's the- I think they are
… screech or I don't know what it is … I
Hank: think it's just coverup.
It's a
Tiffany: conspiracy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hank: Definitely.
Tiffany: I don't, I don't know what it is.
I think maybe they're
just… I mean, I don't know.
I just, I just talked to Jeremy Charles.
I think they're built a little different.
They're a little hardier than, than most.
But yeah, it, they're all in
Newfoundland that do that.
It's crazy.
Hank: Mm-hmm.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Yeah.
Hank: Maine too.
Tiffany: Yeah?
Okay.
I, well, I think sort of different
sides of the same coin probably, right?
Hank: I would argue that
that is very accurate.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Totally.
Oh my gosh.
Uh, one other thing I noticed with this
book, um, cabbage rolls on the cover.
Hank: Mm-hmm.
Tiffany: Was that, was that
an intentional nod to the new,
uh, new home of, of Hank Shaw?
Hank: Um, it's an intentional
nod to the fact that this book is
more than just steaks and roasts.
Okay.
Um, I, we, we think that, you
know, uh, venison obviously ev-
everybody wants b- you know, blood
rare steak or whatever, whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Hank: And I love them too, don't
get me wrong, but there's so much
more to venison than just that.
And- Yeah … I love cabbage rolls.
And yes- Yeah … I live in the
upper Midwest, and there are lots
of- Yeah … Czechs and Germans and,
uh, and Poles and, and Russians,
and that's a, that's a big deal.
I mean, in fact, I'm growing
cabbage specifically for that.
And, um, it, it's just a beautiful dish.
It's a beautiful- Yeah … dish.
And plus Holly's photo is amazing
so, like we- Yes … we had a
whole bunch of different ideas
for photos on the front page.
And- Yeah … um, finally I'm like,
my sister and I ended up doing most of
the designing work, and so we're like,
"No, this is the, this is the picture."
And even though it's not necessarily what
people expect, it's a damn good dish.
Tiffany: It… And I think it
like, it, it says something
about the rest of the book too.
Like, it, it really does speak to
the fact that it is not like taking a
stick and cooking a hunk of meat over
a fire kinda, kinda cookbook, right?
Like, it, you really do res- Kill and
Hank: grill it.
Tiffany: Yeah, totally.
It's like it, there's a respect for
the animal, a respect for the meat,
and it's not like crockpot, can of
cream of mushroom soup sort of cooking.
It is really like you're treating
like any other protein, right?
Hank: Mm-hmm.
Tiffany: Um, so it's, it's cool.
It's very nice.
Nice to see.
Nice change anyway.
Hank: And it's a brand new
recipe too, like that's- Yeah
not in the old book.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Okay.
What, uh, like, uh, are there
any other standout, uh, new
recipes that you're thankful for?
Hank: Every single one
of them's a standout.
I- Yeah … you know, I mean,
that's the thing is like- I
Tiffany: mean new ones,
new ones that you've
Hank: put in … that's what I mean.
Yeah.
Like, uh, I, there's 30 new recipes in
there, and there's really kinda- Yeah
like 30 plus plus 'cause there's
a lot of- Okay … like, um, you
know, s- ancillary variations-
Mm-hmm … and stuff here and there.
But My theory was if it's gonna
break in and, and improve the
book, it's gotta improve the book.
It's not just something like, "Ooh, let's
put that in there." Um, it's the- Oh
… the dishes are there all for a reason.
Mm. So, um, you know, that, you know,
that the stuffed cabbage, that's in
there because ground meat dishes.
So many people are like, "Bro, like,
I love your ground meat dishes, but
I have 50 pounds of ground moose.
I don't know what I'm gonna do with
it." And- Yeah … so I added a bunch
of new recipes that use ground meat.
Um, and then, so there's that one.
Another one I really love is,
uh, British mince meat pies.
Tiffany: Nice.
Hank: Thanks.
It's so good.
Yep.
So good.
Tiffany: Yep.
Hank: And everyone's like,
"Well, there's no m- meat, mince
meat." I'm like, "Au contraire."
Tiffany: Oh, yes there is.
Hank: They took the meat out of mince
meat in, like, the 1920s, I think.
Um- Yeah … and but historically there's
always been meat, and it's often venison.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: And, and God those pies are good.
Tiffany: Yeah, I was happy to
see that it's in this book.
I was like, "Yes, he kept
it. Yes." That's awesome.
Yeah.
Hank: And then those Mexican pacholas.
Yeah.
Those were rad.
Like-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: like, it's, it's basically, um,
they're… It's finely ground venison-
Speaker 3: Mm
…
Hank: that is essentially squashed
into, uh, like a meat tortilla kind of.
Uh- Okay … and then it's,
uh, seared hard on a, on a
flat top or a, or a griddle.
And it's, uh, it's a little bit
like a smash burger, like a little.
Okay.
Um, and then you top it with
salsa or whatever, and they're
just… The kids love it.
It's super, super easy to do.
Like, literally the only thing that you
need to make it is finely ground venison.
It won't, won't really work
with coarse ground venison.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Hank: Um, and plastic wrap, and
a wine bottle, a rolling pin, a-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: a tortilla press, you
name it, and it's so damn good.
And even with a very simple pico de
gallo over it- Yeah … it's like
a… You can make it in 25 minutes.
It's insanely good.
Tiffany: And I have to say, you, uh, I
s- I think it was a point in Borderlands
where you talked about marinating
your chopped onions in lime juice.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Tiffany: That was a complete game changer.
Like, honestly, like I point to that
like in my life, I'm like, "How have
I never seen this before?" This,
like, completely changes tacos for me.
Oh.
Like-
Hank: Yeah
…
Tiffany: ac- it was such a ma-
such a small thing, but so massive.
I tell everybody- It- … I'm
like, "You gotta do this thing
that Hank Shaw says in his book."
It's like-
Hank: It's funny.
It's not me.
It's like this is the
way they do it in Mexico.
Oh, I- So it's like I'm just…
Tiffany: But I'm, I, I don't know.
I've eaten, I've eaten tacos in Mexico.
I've never experienced that before.
It's always just, like, raw, kind of,
not nasty onions, but they're harsh, and-
Hank: Mm-hmm
…
Tiffany: yeah, it's a
Hank: totally new thing.
I don't like them when
they're harsh like that.
Tiffany: No.
Hank: You know?
And then I don't really like, uh,
using Vidalias either, that, 'cause
that would be like, "Oh, we'll
use a sweeter onion." Well, it
doesn't really work that well, like-
Tiffany: No, you need that…
It's like when you eat Indian
food, and y- you get, like, the
raw white onion on the side, and-
Hank: Mm-hmm
Tiffany: I, I see it a lot in, um,
American cooking too, like stewed
beans and whatever, and it, they'll
just, like, have raw onions, and
you just chew on them on the side.
It's-
Hank: Mm-hmm
…
Tiffany: adds a certain brightness to it.
Hank: And, you know, just crunch and
a s- Yeah … sort of a bit of bitter.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, uh, yeah, y- you need it.
Like, I always eat raw onions
when I eat Indian food- Or
chili … curries and stuff like that.
Yeah.
Hank: You know, chili for sure.
Tiffany: Yeah, definitely.
Um, so y- you talked about sous vide.
Hank: Mm-hmm.
Tiffany: I have to ask you, like,
really truly, like, do you have a
sous vide machine in your house?
Do you actually use one?
Hank: There we go.
So all right.
So- … let me start by
saying sous vide sucks.
Um-
Tiffany: Yep, okay.
But-
Hank: And I will tell you why, and
then I'll tell you why I expanded
sous vide information in the book.
Tiffany: Okay.
Hank: Um, sous vide sucks
because of the c- the chaos,
the variability of wild game.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Hank: Um, I don't know
how old your elk is.
I don't know how big your deer is.
I don't know, like, there's too many
variables in a cut of meat to be
able to say, "You should sous vide
this for, you know, two hours at 140
degrees or whatever." Um, so y- you
don't know if it's going to be ready,
and you don't know if it's gonna be
cooked through and blah, blah, blah.
So what everybody does is they
will, uh, they'll err on more time.
Well, but the problem is even though
you are cooking something at, say,
let's just say it's a steak, right?
At 135 or whatever.
It's still cooking even
as the center hits 135.
So people will just throw it
in for, like, two hours or four
hours or 10 hours or 12 hours.
Jesus.
I've seen that.
That's insane, by the way.
Um-
Tiffany: You don't even
Hank: have to chew
Tiffany: it
…
Hank: and, ugh, it's like wallpaper paste.
Yeah, that's gross.
Ugh.
Uh, and, a- and, and s- and so it
just gets pasty and mushy and weird.
And then there's, like, these weird
culinary stunts, like, "Yes, I
cooked my deer shanks at 130 degrees
for 72 hours." I'm like- Yes.
… "Oh, okay. Have fun." You know?
Like, that's weird as hell.
Like, why would you-
Yeah … wanna do that?
'Cause the collagen is probably
not going to break down.
'Cause typically you need, like, 160
for collagen to actually break down.
Yeah.
Uh, but it's gonna get
weird and flabby and pasty.
It just… Ugh, God, why
w- what are we doing here?
It's like the, it's like the,
uh, um, Jurassic Park line.
Like, "Just because we can
doesn't mean we should."
Tiffany: Totally.
Hank: Jeff Goldblum.
Tiffany: D- you spend a lot of
money on that little immersion
heater, so you gotta- Mm-hmm … use
it for everything, right?
Hank: But what I do, I have a big
section on- On sous vide where-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: where it is useful.
Tiffany: Yep.
Hank: Um, and it is useful for parties.
It is useful for- Yeah
you know, pasteurizing things.
It is extremely useful for something like
a bear backstrap or a pig, pig backstrap-
Speaker 3: Yeah
…
Hank: where if you're worried about
trichinosis and you wanna be sure
that you can pasteurize the meat,
um, and you still want it pink-
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm
…
Hank: that's kinda your only way to do it.
Um, and there's a bunch of other
instances, like, where it works.
Like, it works pretty
good for sauerbraten.
You know, you can sous vide a sauerbraten
roast, um, for again, four hours
maybe, like, not a ton of time, but,
and then have the sauce over it, and
then that way you get, like, red, uh,
red meat with that sauerbraten sauce.
Yeah.
Um, but I'll tell you what's better, is
to smoke the thing, to use the reverse
seared roast recipe in the book, and then
do the sauerbraten r- uh, sauce on that.
That is way better.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Hank: But either that's also a
brand new thing in the new book.
But it's like this, this
concept of the two step that I
u- I use really throughout it.
Like barbacoa is another example where
if you smoke the, if you smoke the
barbacoa, like the big shoulder or neck
or whatever, for just even two- two or
three hours and then braise it, it's
a thousand times better, and that's a,
that's an upgrade from the first edition.
Tiffany: So you're, you're
trying to mimic in a home kitchen
what someone's doing, like-
Hank: In a pit
…
Tiffany: in a pit.
Yeah.
Hank: Mm-hmm.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Okay.
No, that makes sense.
I mean, I think- I've, like, I've
used sous vide in restaurants,
and, like, it does serve a purpose.
You've got your little endive that
you're, you know, braising in your
chicken stock and butter, whatever.
But, like, in the home kitchen, I've
never understood why pe- like, sous vide
chicken breast to me is, like, the most
nasty, disgusting thing why someone would
do that, but it's just… I don't know.
A
Hank: thing.
Tiffany: It's a thing.
I just don't get it, but-
Hank: I mean, you can use it with
chicken breast though, because chickens
are always gonna be about the same
age and about the same size, and-
Tiffany: Fair
Hank: and, like, it's gonna work.
Um- Yeah … you know, but in,
you know, pheasants versus blue
grouse versus turkey breast, like-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: I mean, yeah, you could get
it to work, but it's, it's the
variability just is gonna kill you.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Because you can't… Like,
this is to, the sort of… To be
clear, the variability means that you
have to check the, the doneness of
the meat, and who the hell is going
to check in this, it's sealed in a
plastic bag, for crying out loud.
Like, so what are you gonna do?
You gonna go midstream, open the damn bag?
Speaker 3: Reseal
Hank: it.
Like, test the meat, and then, like,
somehow reseal everything when it's
hot like that, and then just get
it- Yeah … back in the water?
No one's doing that.
Like- No … no one is doing that.
They're just setting it and forgetting
it, and then it's, it's almost always
gonna get just over and weird and bleh.
Tiffany: And I'm imagining someone with,
like, their little Costco food saver, uh-
Hank: Oh, God.
Tiffany: Yeah … and they,
and just, like, the sauce going
everywhere all over the counter- Yes.
… into the, into the food saver.
Yeah.
No, that's not gonna happen.
That's not
Speaker 3: gonna happen.
Not ideal.
Tiffany: No, no.
Um, you also have… Like, one thing
I've noticed with you is that you,
like, especially on social media, I
freaking love it, someone will say
something that's just, like, completely
offside and wrong, and you'll be…
And you have no issue correcting them.
You're like, "No, you're wrong. This is,
this is why." And- It's, it's nice because
I, I personally struggle with that.
Like, I don't
Hank: You're Canadian.
I'm from New Jersey.
Tiffany: Yeah, maybe that
might be… I don't know.
But it's a bystander reading.
I'm like, "Yes, you told that
dumbass they're totally wrong.
Like, don't soak your deer leg in ice.
That's crazy."
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Yeah.
Tiffany: But where I find this… I,
I find it interesting 'cause you've
talked about, uh, being a beginner-
Mm-hmm … moving to Minnesota, uh,
putting yourself in a different situation,
mushrooms are different, uh, ice fishing
when you're not comfortable with it.
How do you, how do you handle that?
Like, 'cause you're an expert in so
many things, how do you handle that?
Is it you're an… Is there an internal
ego versus… Like, is there a struggle
there where… Or are you just, like,
happy to push yourself into new areas and-
Hank: I was a newspaper
reporter for 18 years.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: And if you're a newspaper
reporter and you're a good newspaper
reporter, every single day you're a
newcomer or a, a beginner at something.
And even if it's a beat where you know a
lot of the structure, the day, the day's
news is different and new and interesting,
and you have to ask questions.
You have to ask lots of questions.
And because you can assume all
you want, but you know, you know
what they say about assumptions.
And so when I… In my life, my current
life where I don't, thank God, um,
you know, cover politics anymore, um-
Tiffany: Yeah, no kidding.
Hank: It's… Oh, God.
Can
Tiffany: you imagine?
Hank: Um, ugh.
Tiffany: Yep.
Yeah.
Ugh.
Pretty much.
Hank: Um, so I mean, but
it's… I like it, actually.
I, I like the discovery.
I like the, um, the ability to not
have to answer questions, to be honest.
Like-
Speaker 3: Okay
…
Hank: to be able to say, "I don't know.
I'm learning.
I'm still learning." And, um, it, because
it, it gives me the excitement of sharing
my discoveries and, you know, "Did
you know that, like blah, blah, blah?"
And some people are like, "Yeah, well
you do this, da, da, da." And then so
all this… You, if you, uh, if you allow
yourself to be vulnerable, allow yourself
to not be the expert, allow yourself
to be just like, "This is what I found.
What do you guys think?" And then
sometimes they'll either validate it
or they'll have a different experience.
But most people, if you come to them
openly like that, they'll respond in
a very also open way, where like- Yeah
… "That's cool. I find it, when I, when I do
this, something else happens." And like,
"Oh, really? I wonder why." And so it
bec- We all get smarter much faster when
we're open and, um, kind to each other.
Tiffany: And you have a
really, like, more than any…
And, and Alan Bergo talked about
how he learned from you to utilize
and all, the crowdsource from, from
people that follow him and get them
to test his recipes, and he got that
from you, and you really do interact
with your, your people quite a bit.
Hank: I mean, it's, it's, it's
h- It's… I've always done it.
I've done it for, guess what?
The, the blog's 20 years old next year.
Tiffany: Wow.
Hank: Wow,
Tiffany: right?
That's insane.
It's
Hank: m- That's insane … it's bonkers.
Yeah.
Like, I just, like, realized
that on an earlier podcast, and-
Tiffany: Holy cow That's insane
Hank: It's crazy, and I'm, I'm
gonna- Yeah … throw a huge party.
I have, I have no idea what-
Oh, that's cool … the details
are, but I'm totally doing it.
But, uh, I've done this for 20
years, or almost 20 years now.
Wow.
And I initially did it just because,
um, yeah, as a journalist, the
ethos is to respond to your readers,
or at least it was, you know.
Things got really toxic in, um, comment
threads pretty quickly- Yeah … you
know, in the, in the internet age, so.
But in the early bits, you know, 2004,
2006-ish, you know, you could actually
have really good conversations in the
comment sections of a political article.
So that's the origin of it.
Um, and then once it kind of became a
thing, it's stayed a thing because if
you, if you interact with somebody, A,
you're helping them, and it's a, you
know, it's extremely important for me to
be useful and to be helpful in my life.
Um, I don't have kids, um, and,
and I wanted to be a teacher at
one point, but then there were,
you know, the mechanics of being a
teacher are not necessarily for me.
Um, but I s- necessarily want to help
people learn and help people, uh,
uh, it's part of what I want to do.
So I get it's not entirely altruistic
either because, again, well, like
what, what I was just saying when I'm
a beginner with something, um, if I'm
answering someone's question, I am
ex- I'm absorbing their experience.
And, and so I get smarter in the process
because somebody will present me with a
situation that I haven't heard or seen
before, and I'll be like, "Hmm." So I
will go off and like, "Well, what is
this going on?" Like, and yeah, a, a,
an early example of that was diets of
ducks because if you live in a place
and you hunt ducks, ducks, as you know,
are omnivores and, and every different
species has a different, you know, menu.
And, but that menu is, can be,
can change from region to region,
season to season, duck to duck.
So… And it can be the same
duck in different places.
So a good example to use where you
live, um, if you take wigeon, and
wigeon are, you know, by the Pacific
Northwest, you know, the British
Columbia and all the way down to Oregon.
They come down on the coast mostly,
and they eat, um, seaweed a lot,
and they are notoriously disgusting.
Like- … horrendous.
Like-
Tiffany: I do not target them.
Hank: Like, ugh, you know?
Yeah.
Like, just terrible.
But as soon as they swing inland and to,
you know, which usually happens around
Oregon, and then they, then they fly
straight down through, like, Klamath
and into the California Central Valley.
And as soon as they start hitting grain,
especially rice in the Northern California
valley, um, they, they transform into
one of the best ducks you're gonna ever
gonna eat, and it's the same ducks.
Hmm.
So it's, it's… So learning all of that,
'cause I would say having, hunting in
Northern California at the time- Mm-hmm
oh, wigeon are fantastic.
Yeah.
And then I get a guy from, like- … Coos
Bay, Oregon, like, "Holy Christ, what
are you talking about?" And- You know,
and then, like, you know, gadwall
are another good example of that.
So, so the… absorbing the experience
of people all over the country, and
Canada as well, um, like… A great
example, bluebills, to go back to it.
Bluebills in the Delta marshes
of Manitoba are phenomenal.
I will pluck every single one of
them and, and roast them whole,
and they are better than the
mallards in September and October.
Tiffany: Wow.
Hank: It's just 'cause the diet.
They're- Yeah … they're eating
something, they're eating something
in the Delta marshes that they're not
fishy, they're not pondy, they're fat.
And I think what's going on
is they're eating some sort
of tuber in the Delta marshes.
I don't know exactly what they're eating,
but- Hmm … every single time I'm up
there, they're better than the mallards,
and everybody wants the mallards.
Mallards are skinny- Hmm … 'cause
they're on, they're en route
to somewhere s- farther south.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Interesting.
Hank: So, yeah.
It's just, it's… I love it.
I love this, the interaction
because, you know, uh, it's,
to come back to the deer book.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: After the first book came out,
you know, I have this section on deer
fat, and, uh, and I kept hearing from
guys in like South Texas, Mexico,
and Arizona, and be like, "I don't
know what you're talking about.
Deer fat's fine.
You know?
I eat deer fat all the time.
There's… You know, it's a
little waxy, but it's fine.
There's nothing, there's no big
deal with it." I'm like, "That's so
weird." Like, every time I eat deer
fat, it like it coats your mouth, and
it's just, it's really unpleasant.
And so I kinda like had it in the
back of my head that something's going
on, and then I shot a coues deer.
It's actually this deer right
here, this guy right here.
Very cool.
Um, and I shot that deer on the
Mexican border, and it was fat.
It had been eating the Emory oak acorns.
And-
Speaker 3: Okay
…
Hank: I ate the fat, and
it was like, "What? What?"
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: It wasn't waxy.
It was- Interesting … not waxy.
It was like, it basically felt like,
uh, like lamb tallow, like lamb fat.
Okay.
So, you know, not pork fat, but
still- Yeah … like perfectly fine.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Um, and like,
"
Tiffany: What?" When hot, good.
Hank: Huh?
Tiffany: When it's hot, it's good.
Hank: It doesn't even coat your mouth when
it's- Yeah … when it's cooling down.
No.
So, like, you can even, you know,
rest the steak and, and slice it away.
You're fine.
Um, and, uh, what's going on?
So that, hearing that from people over
and over again, like something's going on.
It's just, it's not, it's not
just, you know, weird anecdotes.
So I dug into the science when I
rewrote the book, and turns out there's
been a lot of meat science done on
deer fat because of the commercial
markets in, in, uh, New Zealand or
Australia and United Kingdom and Europe.
And sure enough, and this is
all brand-new in the new book-
Speaker 3: Yeah
…
Hank: it's just wild.
I'm never gonna not geek out on this.
This is… It's amazing.
So- Yeah … the, so stearic
acid is the problem in cervids.
So let's s- step one, um, pronghorn,
bison, nilgai, oryx, throw them out.
They, they're not in this conversation
'cause they're not cervids.
So we're talking about all
the deer, elk, moose, caribou.
So it, stearic acid is a long-chain fatty
acid that is present in s- in cervid fat,
and it's present in some other things,
but it's, it's dominant in cervid fat.
And it, it, it shifts based… Again,
it's much like these duck diets.
It shifts based on species,
latitude, season, and individual.
Tiffany: It's crazy.
Hank: It's wild.
So like caribou living up, uh, up
in the Arctic, they ha- their fat
will have the highest percentage of
stearic acid of any of the cervids.
And a, a deer, a deer in general will
have the lowest, but a deer in the,
in the southern latitudes is gonna
have the lowest, lowest, lowest.
And a deer in the southern latitudes
in the beginning of the season, so like
September, October, is gonna have the
lowest, lowest, lowest, lowest, lowest.
And so you get to this point where you've
got like a white-tailed deer, like that
Koozer, uh, and I think I shot it in,
I think I shot it in early December, so
technically it was like winter on the
Mexican border, but still, you know.
Um, it was just… And it was delicious,
whereas if you shot an Alberta whitetail,
or worse, an Alberta moose in like
November, you know, you're gonna
have to cut that shit with a knife.
Oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: totally.
Hank: Like, "Ah, ah."
Yeah, chisel it off, right?
Like a chainsaw.
Yeah.
And the thing about it is, um,
the deer are doing it on purpose.
They shift their diet from things that
don't have a lot of stearic acid in in
the summertime to, like, mostly forbs.
I'm not sure exactly which
forbs, but the deer know.
Um, and then they put on more
and more and more of that fat
because they don't have houses.
They have to stand outside all winter.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: And, and so it's like, it's
just, it's… The insight I was able
to provide in this new book about,
like, what to do with this deer fat,
what's affecting its, its edibility and
all that stuff, oh, it's just, it…
I like, I was super psyched.
Tiffany: So it, it allows them to
build more fat, or the fat itself
becomes more insulating, or-
Hank: Yes.
Tiffany: Yeah?
Hank: The fat itself
becomes more insulating.
Tiffany: Wow.
That's really cool.
I mean, it sucks for Canadians
and our cold temperatures
and stuff, but- Womp womp.
I know our bears have more, uh,
trichinosis and harder to kill, and the
fat on the animals is too, too crappy.
Hank: No.
Oh.
I mean, only, only where you live
in the Pacific Northwest, like-
Tiffany: Yeah.
Oh, really?
…
Hank: you're damn
salmon-eating bears, you know?
Like…
Tiffany: Yeah, you gotta go inland.
I never hunt them-
Mm-hmm … on the coast.
We always go, uh, inland.
That's- Then they're great.
Hank: Sure.
Tiffany: They're fantastic.
But
Hank: like a salmon bear, like, what?
Tiffany: You know.
Oh.
I don't even hunt them in the wi- in the
fall 'cause it's just… I don't want…
I, the, the possibility of shooting a
bear like that and then having all this
meat that tastes like salmon is not
something I wanna have to deal with.
Hank: So gross.
Tiffany: No.
Hank: I can't even… Your eyes
just like doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.
Oh.
Tiffany: Oh, I know.
I know.
Well, I was talking to someone the other
day, and they're like, "Oh, I've got some,
uh, bear sausage." I'm like, "Yeah, like,
no offense, but I typically don't eat bear
sausage from other people." And they're
like, "Oh, why?" I'm like, "Because just,
it feels like one of those things that
people get a bear, and they're like, 'Oh,
wait, I don't like the taste of bear.
What am I gonna do with it?'
And hence, you know, 100
pounds of bear sausage." Yeah.
So I make my own.
I like it, but I like bear, but I
just don't eat other people's stuff.
It's-
Hank: I still have a, a, a pipe dream-
Someday maybe I will hunt bears in
Southern California in the San Gabriel
Mountains, where they are notorious
for coming down from the mountains
and pillaging the avocado groves.
Tiffany: Oh, that would be good.
Hank: The guacamole bears
they call them, and they- Oh
Tiffany: my God
…
Hank: I saw a picture,
I'm not kidding you-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: the fat was four fingers
thick It was like Boo Boo the Bear.
It was just insane.
It was just like- Oh my God … it was so
insanely fat, and it was all avocado fat.
Tiffany: Really?
Hank: Yeah.
Tiffany: They should include those
bears in the, the, in the, uh, fat
bear week they do up in Alaska.
Hank: They should.
They should.
But these are black bears, but yeah.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Oh man, that's cool.
Are you allowed to hunt them there?
Hank: Yes.
Um- Yeah … but you need to,
like, be in the right spot.
Tiffany: Okay.
Yeah.
Hank: A lot of people, a lot,
a lot of farmers will be like,
"Yeah, ma'am, they're here." You
know, but it's all private land.
Tiffany: Okay.
Not like here where you just, you're kinda
like swatting them away like mosquitoes.
It's never, it's- Frigging
Hank: black bears.
Tiffany: Oh, I know, and our
grizzly bear populations are
growing too, so they're, uh- Yeah.
Hank: They're not my favorite.
Tiffany: No.
They're, we're finding they're
actually starting to, in areas that
were really dense with black bears,
they're pushing them out or- Makes sense
killing them or, yeah.
Hank: So- Well, like wolves
don't like coyotes, and coyotes-
Yeah … don't like foxes.
Tiffany: Huh.
Really?
Hank: Mm-hmm.
Weirdly, cats kinda get
along, but the dogs don't.
Tiffany: Really?
That's real- and it's not the other
way around, like the smaller or the
bigger ones don't like the smaller ones?
Hank: Correct.
The bigger ones don't
like the smaller ones.
Tiffany: Huh.
I wonder why that is.
Hank: Yeah.
It's kinda mutual probably.
I'm sure coyotes- Yeah … don't
like wolves either.
Tiffany: Well, I, I recently read
a book, uh, where they find that
coyotes have, will have, like, a
specific call that they make to alert
others, uh, about that there's a wolf.
Hank: I would- So- … I would guess.
Tiffany: Yeah.
So-
Hank: I mean, shit, if
chickadees can do it- Yeah
you know, wolves can do it, you know-
Totally … and coyotes, you know?
Tiffany: Where you are now, it's
probably getting kinda chilly.
Gardens?
Hank: Weird.
Like, uh, 80 degrees tomorrow, but, um-
Tiffany: Really?
…
Hank: but it's just,
it's a blip, you know?
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Okay.
But yeah, we, but it's a warm fall.
We should be getting frost any day now,
but we're not, so we might go all the
way to Halloween before we get frost.
Tiffany: Garden-wise, you're, uh-
Hank: Still kicking
…
Tiffany: still, still kicking.
Really?
Hank: Well, what's going on now-
That's kinda sur- … is, like,
now we're hitting the light.
So-
Tiffany: Okay
…
Hank: so we're, at my latitude
and your latitude, you know-
Mm … we lose light very quickly.
So, uh, things are slowing down a
lot, even the temperatures are okay.
Um, so in fact, when I get off this
podcast, one of the things that I have
to do this afternoon is to kinda put
toget- put to bed part of the garden, and
it's not because it's, it's dead dead.
It's because I'm done with it, and
I- … and I also wanna focus on the
winter crops that are still in the
ground and, like, I'm, I, I wanna be
done with tomatoes by the time I have
to deal with all the beets and all the
carrots and all the parsley root and
all the salsify and all the black kale.
So-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: and I've got a few cabbages too.
Tiffany: Wow.
And are you, are you growing
any like native plants in, in
your garden now, or any native
Hank: stuff?
Yeah.
I mean, my, my yard is,
is all native stuff.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: The actual garden, um,
you know, I've got an orache.
I've got a, um, a Triplex hortensis,
which is kind of an, um, really cool
native green, and that's done, done.
But I've, I've gathered like, I
don't know, 3,000 seeds for it,
and I might actually offer those
seeds to people over the wintertime
'cause it's such a good green.
Um, and I've got… You
know, they're there.
You know, this will be their
fourth year when they come up
again this, this f- spring.
It's a lomatium, and it's like a…
Biscuit root is, it would be
another, um, cousin of it.
It's a desert parsley is
the actual name for it.
Okay.
Cool.
And it's a Great Plains plant, and so the,
uh, the foliage you can use as parsley.
The seeds are very aromatic, and
you can use those as a spice.
Then you could eat the root,
but the root takes years to
like grow the size of a parsnip.
So typically, like, uh, y- I mean,
you could eat the roots, but it's
like, uh, I just shot four years
of growing this plant in there.
Tiffany: You don't really want
to after investing all that time.
Hank: Exactly.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Are you still… Look, I, I know
you're just launching this book,
but are you still looking at doing a
Great Plains cookbook in the future?
Hank: Maybe not.
No?
Um, the, the, the experience
I had with Borderlands was,
um, uh, borderline traumatic.
So-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: I had hoped that that book
would be a big breakthrough,
and it was very much not.
Uh- Yeah … I love this book.
I love this book to death.
I learned Spanish for the book.
I love that region, and I always will
love that region, and it just did not…
It was not… The way I describe it is,
um, I guarantee you that there is a band
that you, uh, that you love, and that
band or that singer put out an album that
you're just like, "Hmm, I don't know.
Eh, I'm gonna skip this one." And like
I, and it's funny, I do it as a consumer.
Like I-
Speaker 3: Yeah
…
Hank: don't judge.
I like Charli XCX.
Like she's super fun.
Super great club
Speaker 3: music Gwar and Charlie XCX I,
Hank: you know, I have
eclectic tastes, so It's
Speaker 3: awesome.
Hank: So I like a lot of the club music.
It's super fun.
Yeah.
Um, but then she just did, like, this,
you know, very serious album because
she just wanted to change, didn't
wanna be pigeonholed, and I get it.
Yeah.
Same.
Totally.
But, uh, as a consumer, I'm like, "Hmm,
I like the club stuff." And, and so
I, the, I'm not getting mad at anybody
or anything about Borderlands because
they just, you know, people just made
the same decision I just made with the
singer, and like, okay, lesson learned.
Um, so I think probably the next thing
I put out is going to be not a cookbook.
Um, it's going to be, uh, a collection of
essays from To The Bone, and it's gonna be
a big project in the sense of I wanna make
this… The last f- four years of my life
have been really life-changing and very
different, um, and, and very… It's been
probably the most significant shift that
I can remember, um, easily since my 20s.
And, um, I've written, I, I documented
the whole thing through the, through
that To The Bone website on Substack,
and there's a lot of good stuff in there.
And what I wanna do is compile it
and, and organize it into a way that
a person could pick it up and read it
and, and get something from, from it.
And it'll be a little book.
It'll be probably a, you know, a
small paperback, but I'm gonna read
it, uh, as an audiobook, and then
it'll also be as a e-book as well.
So, uh, that's what I'm hoping to do
next in terms of, uh, my creative output.
You know, it's basically… If you guys
haven't heard about what I do, the To
The Bone is a Substack I do where I write
about the intersection of nature and life.
So it's foraging or fishing or
hunting stories or cooking stories
or travel stories, but there's
always a bigger, uh, point.
There's always a bigger
reason why I'm writing.
Um, and it's, um, it's been very, very
fulfilling, um, over the last few years.
Tiffany: Well, it's… I have to say, it
is, it's incredibly valuable to read, too.
Like, I, I follow along with it.
I find it… Again, it's… I, I, it makes
me, it makes me sad that people didn't
appreciate Borderlands because I think
you suffer from being too successful
in your space, and people just can't
get their head wrapped around the fact
that you're not just the wild game guy.
Hank: Yeah.
Tiffany: And, like, I could see how that
would, that would really freaking suck.
If, like, g- 'cause, you know, you're
pushing to try something different, and
people just wouldn't get, get on that,
on that trip with you because I think
it's, I think it's an amazing book.
Um- But maybe, maybe if they read,
maybe if they read your n- your next
book with the essays in it, they'll
kinda get a better picture of, like,
you're not just the wild game guy.
There's s- there's a lot more there.
Hank: Oh, yeah.
Tiffany: And, but yeah, I
think it sounds fantastic.
I'm looking forward to
Hank: it.
I've actually… I do have another
recipe-oriented book in that just,
Speaker 3: it's right, right
Hank: there.
Um, and it's… Somebody asked me,
like, "Well, okay, now it's time to
redo, uh, Hunt, Gather, Cook." Yeah.
And I can't 'cause miraculously- Ah
it is still in print.
Tiffany: Oh, I was gonna say
color, color, uh, photos.
Hank: 16 years later- Wow … that
book is still in print.
That's crazy.
Um- That's
Tiffany: crazy
…
Hank: it's, it's super crazy, but
I, but it, and I don't own it.
It's a Rodale, uh, Rodale book.
So, but that said, the ethos behind it,
the, you know, the, the idea of food
sovereignty, personal food sovereignty,
of taking control of what you feed
yourself and your family, root and branch.
And so the, the, with- Fishing and
foraging and hunting, sure, but
also fermentation and preservation
and gardening things, and it's
like the- a holistic look of
what I do, like what my life is.
And my life is, yeah, it's hunting,
and yeah, it's fishing, and yeah,
it's foraging, but it's also all
of these other things kind of on
an equal basis, and I don't think
a lot of people really know that.
Um, and, and it's still a germ of an
idea in my head right now, but the,
the idea of writing a book about,
you know, sort of a, a spiritual
successor to Hunt, Gather, Cook.
Um, maybe it'll be Cook, Hunt, Gather.
Tiffany: You gotta have
gardening in there, though.
Hank: Yes.
A whole section.
Well, I mean, you know, the website's
Hunter, Angler, Gardener, Cook, so.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Uh, I'll, I'll figure it out, but,
um- Mm … but I, I, I want… I also
have to figure out, well, what can I add
to the, to the discourse in this too?
Because there's-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: there are quite a lot of books out
there for, you know, for homesteaders and
for blah, blah, blah, and sort of like,
well, what do I add to the situation?
Tiffany: Well, I think, offhand, I
would say you add a certain level
of like scientific basis behind
things like canning and preserving.
Some of those books are just
like, oh my God, like…
Hank: Did you hear about the, the… It
was a woman in the United States who did
a… She did like a, a foraging mushroom
book with like recipes, and it had like
a whole bunch of like raw morel recipes.
Tiffany: Oh, no.
It's a… It blows my mind how
many people don't know that.
Hank: They had to, they
had to recall the book.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Well, I bet.
Hank: Like- Yeah, they
had to recall the book.
Like, she lost her advance.
She like, the,
Tiffany: like- Oh my gosh
…
Hank: everything went to like,
like… What are you doing?
Rec-
Tiffany: I think it's one thing to
have an oversight of not mentioning to
people you have to cook them, but to
have recipes for raw morels is insane.
Hank: It's insane.
Yeah.
It's how people d- in fact, the
second-worst lethal incident with
morels was in British Columbia.
Tiffany: Well, that doesn't surprise me.
Yeah.
A friend of mine got deathly sick.
She was like vomiting, diarrhea everywhere
all night long after eating morels,
and she's like, "Oh my God," like,
"I didn't know they were poisonous."
I'm like, "Well, did you cook them?"
She's like, "Well," like, "not
really." I'm like, "Well, what do
you expect?" She's like, "I'm never
gonna eat them again." I'm like…
Hank: Perhaps you should cook them.
Tiffany: Yeah.
But what happened, what happened in BC?
Hank: Um, it was… It's gotta
be f- almost 20 years ago now.
Okay.
But, um, it was a chefs'
conference in Vancouver.
Oh,
Hank: no.
And, and some chucklehead decided
to, um… Or should I say googan?
'Cause it's Ca- it's Canada.
Uh- … decided, decided to, um, uh, cook
a salad of raw morels to this conference,
and like I think several people died.
Joe's Sushi is the, in Bozeman,
Montana, is the most recent-
Yeah … one where people died.
Tiffany: Was that Morrells?
Hank: That was Morrells.
Tiffany: Oh, I didn't know that.
Okay.
Yeah, no, that's, uh… I mean, I, yeah,
like I said, I think that's, I think
that's what people can get from it.
There's, there's, everyone's got a blog.
Everybody's got, like, the opportunity
to put their thoughts out there
in social media posts, and they're
like, "Let's, you know, I just
bought this quarter acre of land.
We're gonna, you know,
dig a sewer line today.
Let's follow along." And
you're like, "Oh, my God."
Speaker 3: Okay.
Tiffany: What, what could go wrong?
Wee.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
No, that's, um, yeah, that's crazy.
Um- So what are you cooking now?
Hank: Hmm.
So I just made my… So my family has a
really old, um, recipe for clam chowder.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Hank: You know, it's my
great-great-grandmother's.
Wow.
And it's passed on, and so I
just modified it for a fish
chowder that I made yesterday.
Tiffany: Okay.
Yeah.
Hank: Um, and I, 'cause I had some
tautog, which is, like, the king chowder
fish in the world, in my opinion.
Um- Really?
… the only thing that's close to
it would be, like, tilefish.
Um- Okay … it's an incredibly firm,
very fine-grained white fish that
holds up to a stew or a chowder.
Doesn't fall apart.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Um, and it's just a fantastic
chowder fish, and it's like I hadn't
had my hands on one in decades.
And so I just got back from,
uh, Connecticut, where we
fished for them, and so that.
I've got a couple of cured
mackerel that I, um, that are
drying out in my refrigerator
right now that I'm gonna smoke.
Um, and, um, here's a
kind of a dirty secret.
Don't tell anybody.
Speaker 3: But my partner
Kat's a vegetarian.
Hank: So- Oh,
Speaker 3: no.
Hank: Yes.
Yes, it's amazing.
However, she's the best kind.
Her, 50% of her DNA is cheese,
and 50% are wild mushrooms.
That's fair.
So it's like it's- Okay.
That's
Speaker 3: fair.
Hank: Oh, yeah.
So, like, from my, my, from my cook's
perspective, it's, ah, it's- Yeah
it's everyone's like, "How do
you do this?" I'm like, it's
really actually quite easy.
Um, vegan would be an
entirely different dish.
Like, like that I don't know.
That might be a deal breaker.
But, um- I would… Yeah, that'd be
tough … I bring that up because
I'm making a, um, a modification of
my traditional minestrone tomorrow.
And so my traditional minestrone
has a whole bunch of, uh, the
vegetables in it, um, and you,
like, cook a kind of like a base.
You, like, and you make your vegetable
stock to begin with, but you throw, like,
chunks of, of, of either bacon or pork
belly in there, like, right at the start.
And you let that cook for, like, I
don't know, an hour or two hours,
and then you puree everything.
So it's like it becomes, like, this
rich, thick base of the minestrone, and
then you build the minestrone from that.
Um, because she's a vegetarian, I'm
gonna try it with, uh, rehy- And not tell
Speaker 3: her.
Hank: Yeah, right.
No.
You notice.
Uh, I'm gonna bu- rebuild it
with, um, rehydrated mushrooms.
Speaker 3: Oh,
Hank: cool.
So I'm gonna use, uh, porcini
instead and then puree all that.
Yeah.
And I think that's gonna be…
Uh, if not, it'll be just as good.
I don't think it's gonna be better.
I don't think it's gonna be worse.
I think it's gonna be just
as good and different.
Yeah.
And then build that up.
And, and then the other trick, and
if you're, if you ever are interested
in making your own minestrone,
um, always finish it with a huge
dollop of pesto right at the end.
Tiffany: I, I do that.
Mm-hmm.
It is, like, life-cha- and pesto
of whatever sort of green- Right.
Yeah … that I happen to
have at the time, but yeah,
it totally brightens it up.
Super fresh.
It's awesome.
I love it.
Um, I, I do find it strange that you're
with a vegetarian, I have to say.
Hank: Mm. Most people
Tiffany: do.
I mean… Yeah.
I mean, I, I…
Yeah.
Mush- mushrooms definitely make up for it.
And your… I remember seeing
a jerky recipe you did one
time where you put in porcinis.
Hank: Mm-hmm.
The, the powder, porcini powder.
Tiffany: Yeah, powdered porcinis.
That, that was a game changer for me.
Like, I don't know how many
people I've told about that.
I'm like, "You gotta add
ground-up porcinis in there."
I've even year- used the, uh,
birch boletes in there too.
Oh, perfect.
It's not, not… I mean, they're kind
of… They're not an ideal mushroom, but
I, I think it's a great swap for them.
I love them.
Yeah.
Hank: They're… Like, birch boletes
and aspen boletes are, um… I
will gather them every time I see
them, and then d- I just dry them.
You just dry… Like,
they're not great fresh.
In fact, um, the aspen boletes, unless
you cook the crap out of them fresh, they
can actually make you, make you sick.
Tiffany: Yeah?
Um- I don't get those ones.
I just get the birch ones, but-
Hank: Really?
Okay.
Tiffany: Yeah.
They, they grow, like,
outside my kids' school.
Well, their old school.
Hank: So you're, you're talking,
like, brown top versus orange top?
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Yeah.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, the sca- what they call it?
Scaberd, uh- Scabers, yeah … yeah,
scabers and then the brown top.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, grow like crazy at my kids'
school, so I'd always be, like,
walking around, like, with a bunch
of mushrooms in my, in my hoodie.
And all the parents are like-
Hank: So good.
… "
Tiffany: What is wrong with
you?" I'm like, "No, no.
Don't c- don't let the
kids kick those ones over.
I'm taking those home."
Hank: They're
Tiffany: so good.
Yeah, it was fantastic.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's awesome.
Hank: And if you get a, a slightly
older one of either of these,
the aspen- Yeah … or the birch
boletes, um, you pull the sponge off.
You know, you pull the, the-
Okay … sponge off separate.
Yeah.
And then dry that separately, and that
becomes your, uh, your porcini powder.
Tiffany: Really?
Okay.
Hank: Yeah, because when you rehydrate,
uh, the mushroom, that spongy bit
is- Yeah … just gonna be like bleh.
It's gonna be… Have, like,
a slug-like qu- quality to it.
Okay.
So I just dry it separate and
grind the hell out of it, and m-
that's, that's my porcini powder.
I don't grind whole
mushrooms for that powder.
It's only the sponge.
Tiffany: Okay.
That's good to know.
I've been like… I,
I, I never take it off.
I actually… I find the, the
older ones get a little…
They smell like wet dog to me-
Hank: Mm
…
Tiffany: when they dry.
I'm like, "Eh, no, it's… " They're
too… For whatever reason, they,
uh, it… That smell just immediately
turns me off, so I'm like, "Ah,
I'm not gonna use this one."
They're
Hank: so common that, like, you can…
They work if you, uh… Try g- try, if
you're trying only the younger ones.
Yeah.
And I think, I think you'll be fine.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Yeah.
And they are great.
Mm. They're great in s- like, stuffings.
I always stuff them in stuffings
and stuff like that too.
Yep.
Yeah.
Hank: They make a great bisque too.
They actually make- Oh, yeah … they're
actually one of my favorite
bases for cream of mushroom soup.
'
Tiffany: Cause
Hank: it'll give you the color
that everybody's looking for.
Tiffany: Is there anything else
though that you wanna talk about?
Any, uh, exciting points of
the book you wanna dig into?
New things that we should cover?
Hank: Yeah, I mean, I think I, um,
I expanded the charcuterie section.
Tiffany: Okay.
Hank: I expanded, uh, the sausage
section, and I think those are
two things that people asked for.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Um, and I created a whole bunch
of, like, new sort of project-y things-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: that for, because people are
looking for things to do in the middle
of winter, and, you know, the, the
English game pie, the mince meat pies,
um, the, I added a couple of salamis that
I didn't have otherwise that, that…
And I will, I will, you know-
Die on a cross for that, for
that summer sausage recipe.
Like, it is a- Right … damn
good summer sausage recipe.
Okay.
But the thing that's gonna freak
people out is that it's not a
modern summer sausage recipe,
which is not actually fermented.
It's, they use this thing called fermento,
which gives it a tang, but it's- Yeah
you're, it's, then you have to cook it.
This is a cured sausage.
So like, it's old school, like Bockwurst
or, yeah, there, there's, it's like,
I, if you, if you… I find people in
like, um, Missouri, Michigan, there
are a bunch of places where they
still do it this way, and it's such
a superior summer sausage that, like,
I can't, I can't say enough about it.
Tiffany: Uh, technique-wise,
is it more difficult or-
Hank: Yeah.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Yeah.
Yeah, because it's, uh, you're c-
you're, you're curing it and drying it.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Um, you're not drying it
solid like a Genoa salami, but
you're drying it enough, and it's-
Yeah … a smoked product, too.
Tiffany: Okay.
Hank: Whereas the, um, like a modern
summer sausage is you make a sausage,
um, you add that fermento to it,
you smoke it, and then you cook it.
You actually finish it in the oven.
Tiffany: Okay.
Hank: Uh, because it's not safe
to eat if you don't cook it.
Tiffany: Yeah, fair enough.
Are you fi- are you finding people are,
like, on board and excited to do the
more challenging charcuterie stuff?
Hank: Not everybody, but
enough- No … people are.
I mean, there's a, for everybody who
wants that, there's probably two who
are looking for a Tuesday night meal.
Yeah.
Like, I added four casseroles to the book.
Tiffany: Do you, do you
have a… I didn't see it.
I might have
Hank: missed it.
I didn't do a tater tot casserole.
Tiffany: Ah, damn it.
Hank: The tater tot casserole
is on my website, however.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: If you go to, if you, if
you, um… And in fact, it's, it's
kind of a tactical error because-
Yeah … um, I saved the tater tot
casserole un- under the idea that
I'm, uh, doing that Great Plains book.
Tiffany: Okay.
Hank: Because the venison tater
tot casserole in a Great Plains
book is absolutely perfect.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Should have put it in this
one, but- Yeah … oh, well.
It's on the website.
Tiffany: Yeah, when I saw that, I was
like, "Oh," I like, I really… I, I have
a weak… It's one of my, one of my few
weaknesses, wine gums and tater tots.
And like, I'm like, "How have I
never seen this before in my life?"
It's like, the thought of not putting
mashed potatoes, but like tater tots
on top, I'm like, "That's genius."
Hank: So I wanna do, this is super
ghetto but also is super amazing as well.
Yeah.
There's a, there's a place called
Taco John's in the Midwest.
Yeah.
Um, it's a, very much not a Mexican place.
Um…
Tiffany: Sometimes those
places are good, though.
I mean-
Hank: It's totally … I
get it … nostalgia.
Tiffany: Yeah, yeah.
Hank: And so they have these little
tater tot things called Olés.
And- Okay.
Olés are, like imagine a tater
tot, but like flavored kind
of like with tajín, you know?
Okay.
So they're like-
Speaker 3: That could be really good
…
Tiffany: spicy tater tots.
Hank: And what I wanna do is I
wanna do a Mexican casserole-
Tiffany: Okay.
I like
Hank: it … topped not with
tater tots, but with Olés.
Tiffany: Oh, I like that.
And it's- Are they shaped like tater tots?
Hank: They're little, they're round.
Tiffany: Okay.
Hank: And they're gonna be, it's
gonna be super ghetto, but I-
Yeah … guarantee you it's gonna
be, they, people are gonna smash it.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Oh, totally.
It's gonna be
Hank: great.
Yeah.
Tiffany: Oh, I, I like,
I don't know what it is.
May- I just, I do love tater tots.
I always, like, get super excited
when I see regional differences.
Like, Idaho has, like, the
little skinny round ones.
Hank: Mm-hmm.
They're- That's what au lait's look like.
Tiffany: That is?
Okay.
Okay, cool.
And, and they dip them in, um- Damn it.
I wanna call it fancy sauce,
but it's not fancy sauce.
It's like, it's basically l-
I can't remember what it is.
It's like mayonnaise and ketchup and
something else, but it's unbelievable
Hank: Thousand Island or something?
Tiffany: But it's not Tha- it's not
quite Thousand Island, 'cause it's like I
don't like Thousand Island, but whatever
the sauce is that they serve at- Oh
Idaho
Hank: is- I know this sauce, yeah.
So they serve it with steak tips, too.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, and french fries and like-
Mm-hmm … uh, I, I had it there.
I was like, "What? H- where has this
been my whole life?" They're like,
"What is wrong with you?" This is
like, everybody has this. I went to the
grocery store to buy it, and they're
like, "No, you don't buy it pre-made.
Like, you make it… It's,
everyone just makes it at home."
Hank: Mm-hmm.
Tiffany: But anyways, it's fantastic.
It's really, really good.
We have a local, uh, Mexican place
that has, like, smiley face tater tots.
Hank: Aw.
Tiffany: Yeah, they're pretty cute.
They're not as good,
but they're pretty cute.
You always get, like, one of
those smiley face tater tots with
your, with the rest of the- That's
Hank: kinda cute.
Tiffany: Yeah, it is.
It's pretty good.
I can just imagine a whole casserole
with, like, all these smiley faces.
Or something for kids.
It'd be
Hank: even better if they had, like,
different faces so you could, like- Oh,
yeah … have a progression of emotions.
Tiffany: Yeah, totally.
It's like if, if you're not
feeling happy in your meeting,
it's, like, angry face tater tots.
Hank: Angry, exactly.
Tiffany: Scared for Halloween.
Hank: Ennui.
Tiffany: Yeah- You
know, like- … totally.
It's just like, "Ar."
Hank: Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Tiffany: All the different…
See, I think that's a good idea,
so it should- Yeah … do that.
Yeah, totally.
I forgot to mention.
So I bought one of these,
and- Yes … you were generous
enough to send me one as well.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm gonna have a second one, and
I'm gonna give it away to someone.
We'll, uh, figure out how we're gonna do
that, but, uh, one of the listeners of the
podcast will get, get one of your books.
Hank: Yay.
Tiffany: Yes, yeah.
And then, um, for anyone
else, please, like- I think
Hank: you should give it to a Canadian.
Tiffany: Oh, 100%.
Hank: Yeah.
Tiffany: Only Canadians, right?
It's shipping… The duties are crazy,
so, like, yeah, I'll just tell people,
"Yeah, sorry, Americans, anywhere else,
no, you're not getting one." Just,
just for Canadians so they can see it.
Um, but for anyone else that,
like, has not read your books-
Mm-hmm … my God, check them out.
They are awesome.
I have them all back there.
Um-
Hank: And they're now available
everywhere, so all of my books are
available wherever books are sold.
So you can, you know, you can get them on
Indigo, you can get them on Amazon, you
can get them from your local bookstore.
You'll probably have to order it,
but they b- your local bookstore
can order all of my books.
Um, you can get them directly
from me on huntgathercook.com,
and I do ship to Canada.
Um, Canada is the only, uh,
other country that I can ship to.
Um, and, you know, if you, if you're
ever wanna, gonna interact with me, your
two best bets are the website, which
is huntgathercook.com, or Instagram.
I'm on Instagram quite a bit, and
I, um, also Hunt Gather Cook there.
So-
Tiffany: Are you doing
signed copies of the book?
Hank: I am.
Yeah.
The signed copy, I s- I have
a very interesting problem.
Um, I signed 1,600 copies- My God … uh,
about three weeks ago, and they're gone.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Hank: So I'm going back to the
warehouse, uh, in a couple of weeks,
uh, to sign hu- a few hundred more,
uh, or at least as many as I think
I, we can get through to Christmas.
Um, so generally speaking, yes,
uh, they're, if you buy it directly
from me, they will be signed.
Um, and I'm, one of the projects
I have to do is create a button
in the system of, like, wait for
a signed one or get it right away.
So I'm gonna, I'm setting
that up within days.
So the answer is a qualified yes.
Tiffany: Okay.
And they are actual signed books.
Hank: Yes.
Oh, you saw that.
Tiffany: I did see that.
I laughed so hard.
Hank: Yeah.
So a, a, a reader from New York- From New
York … I can only imagine her accent.
Yeah.
She's like, "Oh, yeah, so I got
your book." "It was wonderful.
Uh, I saw the signature.
It doesn't look like a
real signature." Yeah.
"It's like not real." "So, like
could you bo- I, I … I'm gonna
give this knockoff to like my son.
Could you like maybe possibly
sign a real one and send me
a new book, will you?" Yeah,
Speaker 3: totally.
Hank: And, um, my first thought is like,
"Why don't you kick rocks with sandals,
lady?" And, but I didn't say that.
Uh, I was like, "Um, I'm a little miffed
that you would suggest that I would
have a fake signature on my books."
"I signed every goddamn
one of them." Like-
Tiffany: Yep
…
Hank: so sh- eventually, to her
credit, she, um, she waited a day,
'cause I think she was probably taken
aback or something, but who knows?
Yeah.
Maybe she drunk texted, I don't know.
Um- Maybe … but she-
Tiffany: Maybe she's busy shipping
it off to her son or something.
Hank: Yeah.
She texted back and, uh, it was, or
she's emailed back and she was like, "I'm
sorry," and you know, "We like the book."
So like- Oh, good … all's
well that ends well, so.
Tiffany: Nice.
Yeah.
That's good.
So actual signed copies of the book
if you order- Yes … from Hank Green.
Yes.
That's awesome.
Amazing.
Thank you so much, Hank.
I'm gonna release this very soon.
It's coming out on Tuesday.
So Canadians- Oh, cool … I hope
you had a fantastic Thanksgiving
and enjoy list- Oh, that's right.
Yeah … yes.
Yes, it's my favorite weekend of the year.
I'm super excited.
What
Hank: do, do you guys do turkey
too or do you do something else?
Tiffany: Uh, no, all Canadians eat moose.
That's it.
That's all we do for Thanksgiving.
And beaver, I assume, right?
Yeah, yeah.
No, 100%.
Moose, goose, and beaver?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, we do, we do, uh, turkey.
Uh, I'm probably gonna do duck.
Uh- Okay … do something different this
year, but yeah, uh, turkey typically.
Yeah, same, same thing or just, you
know, a little bit earlier so it's not
in the middle of darkness like you like
later in the year when you guys have it.
I
Hank: just like the idea of like
all Cana- all of Canada is tucking
into their plates of beaver.
Tiffany: Yes.
We're all pouring maple syrup on top.
Maple syrup, right.
Yes, with a side of
poutine and yep, totally.
Slicing our raw salmon with
our, uh, what are those called?
With an ulu.
Ulu, yes.
With our ulus.
Yep, pretty much.
Wearing our furs and trying to stay
warm- And like- … the sea oil fire
…
Hank: desperately hoping that some
Canadian team wins the Stanley Cup.
Tiffany: Honestly, I like, as a Vancouver
native, I like, I don't even care anymore.
Like, just like, it would be nice.
It would be nice.
I- Uh, we tend to riot when, when
it goes too long and we don't win.
So yes, riot.
We went shopping for free.
Which is, uh, look cru-
Hank: which is to look grumpy-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: in Canada.
Tiffany: Yeah.
No, the, the last time guys were,
like, climbing up the, uh, power
lines and, like, walking on…
There's pictures of guys, like,
walking along the power lines.
Like, they, they went absolutely crazy.
Hank: Well, when was… Uh, this,
was it the 1980-something the
last time a Canadian team won?
Tiffany: Vancouver went to the
finals, like, '94, I think.
Hank: I remember that.
They went to the finals,
but they didn't win.
Tiffany: Yeah.
No, we ha- Yeah, no, we
didn't, we didn't win.
Yeah.
And hence why I, I couldn't
care less about any other one.
Um, and-
Hank: I always root for the Canadian team.
If, if my team- Yeah?
So I, I'm a New Jersey Devils fan- Yeah
… born and raised, but I live in Minnesota,
so the Wi- I also really like the Wild.
If those teams are out of the
playoffs, whoever the Canadian team
is left is, is who I'm rooting for.
Yeah.
So last year it was Montreal.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: And, uh, maybe not the Leafs
Tiffany: No.
Yeah Most people don't
cheer for the Leafs.
Like- Maybe not the Leafs, but … even
I think in Toronto they don't.
Hank: Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
Tiffany: Like, we actively will
root for whatever- The Maple
Hank: Leafs are the
Dallas Cowboys of hockey.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Totally.
Hank: Although- They
think they're amazing.
And, and-
Tiffany: Everybody
Hank: hates them … everybody hates
Tiffany: them.
Yep.
Yep.
They're the popular girl in school that
everybody actually seriously hates.
Hank: Mm-hmm.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: Accurate.
Tiffany: Uh, it's funny though,
'cause as Canadians we all had to
watch this video called The Sweater.
Hank: Okay.
Tiffany: Have you heard of this?
Hank: No, I have not.
Tiffany: Okay.
Uh, it's
Hank: like- Is it part
of the citizenship exam?
Because I'm, I'm applying-
Okay … for dual citizenship.
Tiffany: Really?
Hank: Yeah.
Tiffany: Oh, well, y- you'll
be able to watch it then
Hank: if- My grandparents
are from, uh, Ontario, so.
Tiffany: Really?
Hank: Yeah.
Tiffany: Okay.
Yeah.
So it's part, probably part of
like mandatory, uh, watching for
any, anyone going to Canada, but-
Hank: The Sweater.
Making
Tiffany: notes.
Yeah.
It's called The Sweater, and it was,
uh, a Film Board of Canada cartoon,
and we all watched it multiple times.
And it's about this kid who grows
up and, uh, he wants to get a
hockey sweater, and his mom orders
a Toronto Maple Leaf sweater.
And he has to put on this ugly ass
Toronto Maple Leaf sweater and go
out and play hockey with all his
little French-Canadian friends.
Oh . And they all have Montreal
Canadian sweaters, and he's just
like mortified that he has to
wear a Toronto Maple Leaf sweater.
But I'm sure you can find it- I may
have to watch it … if you Google it.
It's like, it's, it's awesome.
We all hated it.
We were like, "Oh, my God, we have
to watch The Sweater again." But
yeah, as an adult you're like,
"Oh, that was actually cool." But-
Hank: Interestingly, the Jets are the, um,
are the big rival for the Minnesota Wild.
Tiffany: Yeah.
I… Well, didn't they…
Is that where they went?
Or where did they
Hank: go?
No.
Tiffany: No.
Where did the Jets go?
Hank: Oh, I don't know where
the, the, the Jets… The Jets
have always been there, right?
Tiffany: I thought they-
Hank: The Wilds, the Wild are the
rejuvenites… We used to be the North
Stars, but they went down to Dallas.
Tiffany: Okay.
Okay.
Maybe I'm getting confused.
Hank: I thought Winnipeg's
always been there.
Tiffany: I thought the
Jets shut down for a while.
Hank: Hmm, maybe, maybe you're right.
Tiffany: And then they… Yeah.
Huh, interesting.
So you hate the Jets, eh?
Hank: I don't hate the Jets at all.
No.
It's just that, like, technically they're
Tiffany: our rival.
It's like technically, yeah.
Hank: I hate the North Stars
because they, you know-
Tiffany: Yeah, no, that's fair.
Hank: A, it's Dallas, and B, it's
like that was our team, you know?
Yeah.
And they bas- So, okay, well, like,
here we are talking about hockey still.
Um-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: they… But so when the North
Stars became the fucking Dallas Stars-
Tiffany: Yeah
…
Hank: they took the whole
team, went to Dallas-
Tiffany: Yeah
Hank: and won the Stanley Cup
Tiffany: Yeah, that's not cool
Hank: Yeah, not- That- … super not cool.
Tiffany: No.
Hank: And we don't like the Abs either
because the, the Avalanche- Yeah … are
the other big rivalry in that division.
Tiffany: Yeah.
And they, they were good for so long.
I feel like- They
Hank: still are.
Tiffany: They still are good.
I feel like they're sort of like,
like the Patriots in football.
Hank: To me, that would be like the
Florida teams, like the Panthers.
Tiffany: Okay.
Hank: Okay.
Yeah.
Like, y- you just, why?
Why- Yeah, it doesn't- … why are there,
is there hockey in, in Co- in Florida?
It's just why?
Like-
Tiffany: Yeah, or Vegas.
Like, that just makes me mad.
Hank: Oh, yeah.
I'm like, why?
Vegas.
Did you see the memes last year?
Like- No … Vegas, everybody hates you.
Tiffany: Yeah, totally.
Hank: It's like all of North America,
like, who's rooting for, you know,
the, the Panthers and who's rooting
for- Yeah … the Vegas Golden Knights?
And it's like, Golden
Knights is like this.
And then the enti- all of North America.
Like, they got guys from Nunavut
going, you know, "Go Panthers."
Tiffany: Yeah, totally.
You'd be surprised, actually.
I find these, these areas that don't
have, like, really a local team, who
they, who they end up cheering for.
Like, the amount of people
from Eastern Canada that like
the Maple Leafs blows my mind.
Like, you think they would-
Hank: Well, who else do they have?
Tiffany: Canadiens.
Hank: Yeah, but that's French.
Tiffany: Yeah.
I know.
I think maybe there might
be some, like, Anglo-
Hank: Oh, definitely.
Definitely … Francophone.
But, but you, you know- Any of
it … if it's really Eastern Canada,
they c- I mean, there's no reason
that they couldn't root for the
Bruins, except that they're American.
Tiffany: Some, yeah, actually some
do, 'cause I remember when Vancouver
was playing the Bruins, and my cousins
back east were cheering for them.
I'm like, "What is your
problem?" And yeah.
Well.
Hank: Back east.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Yeah, we don't like the Bruins either,
'cause we played them and lost.
Hank: Oh.
Tiffany: Yeah.
I think we're, I'm trying to remember.
I think we were up by, like, a lot, like
three, 3-0 or whatever in the series, and
then for, then they proceeded to lose.
Hank: Ouch.
Tiffany: Yeah, it was pretty brutal.
Everyone in Vancouver was feeling
pretty good about ourselves.
Ouch.
We jumped back on that wagon, and
then it was just like, nope, no.
Hank: But you're not bitter.
Tiffany: No.
Like I say, I don't get into hockey,
and I don't care, but, like, then
we have a conversation about it.
You're
Hank: actually bitter.
Tiffany: I am really bitter.
My team, my team has never won, and
they're really terrible, and, like-
Hank: They are terrible, too.
It's like the Wild- Yeah … at
least are pretty good and-
Tiffany: Well
…
Hank: you know, but I don't know.
What's worse, being completely
crappy or getting close and
having your heart ripped out?
Tiffany: I'd rather be close
and have your heart ripped out
Hank: Okay.
That's
Tiffany: fair.
Because then you have a whole
season of, like, excitement.
Ah.
It's hard… Right?
Good point.
Like, the, the morale of the t- of
the town in, like, on a bad season for
the Canucks, everyone's like, "Like,
I don't know, I guess, I guess we'll
watch Succession again or something."
Like, it's just like nobody cares.
But when this, when Vancouver has
a good team of anything, people
get, like, super, super excited.
Yeah.
Everyone comes together.
We stop being jerks to each other.
A town where it rains a lot, it's
not- Mm … the most friendly town.
It's like, it's beautiful, but
people here can be quite cold- Closed
Hank: off … and
Tiffany: mean.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hank: And- Seattle can be like that, too.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's probably a
lot like Seattle, but-
Hank: Well, you always-
Tiffany: But when we have a winning team
I don't know.
I just can't.
I just can't.
I can't do it, but I'd rather ignore them
on a bad season and then just wait till
they're good again and then jump back on.
Hank: Yeah.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Hank: That seems, that seems fair.
Tiffany: Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
Oh, well.
Well, hey, as usual, we end with
a conversation about hockey.
And I will put links to all your stuff.
Thank you so much, and, uh-
Cool … yeah, we'll keep in touch.
Hank: All right.
Talk to you later.