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Explores the application of Baha'i principles towards society building.
Society Builders pave the way
To a better world, to a better day
A united approach to building a new society.
Join the conversation
For social transformation
Society Builders.
Society Builders with your host Duane Varan.
(Duane) Welcome to another exciting
episode of Society Builders and thanks
for joining the conversation,
for social transformation.
In our last episode we began our journey
of summarizing what we ve been learning
about the science of depolarization over
the past few episodes and then working to
understand what Baha i-inspired approaches
to such depolarization might look like.
And, of course, the challenge of
sharing all of this is something
that was too much to cover in a
single episode, so we re exploring
this theme across a series of episodes. And today
s episode is the second part of this series.
In our last episode we started with the first
theme we ll be exploring in this context and
that focused on what we can do to both limit the
effects of polarized content in our own lives and
how we should be on guard to not further propagate
such content. Remember, polarization is a social
pollutant. If we live in society if we interact
with society we re going to be breathing polarized
content every day. So in the same way that we have
become more aware of what we eat in recent years,
looking at counting our calories and scrutinizing
ingredients in this same way, we also have to
become more aware of the content we consume and
limit the toxic polarized content in our diet.
But we also need to be sensitized to the fact
that because we breathe in such social pollutants,
we are also often transmitters of polarized
content, despite our best intent. And so we also
need to become more aware of our own expression
working towards what the Universal House of
Justice frames as an etiquette of expression
becoming guarded in the content, volume,
and style of our expression, while exercising
tact, wisdom and timeliness in our response.
So depolarization starts with us.
Today, we continue our journey as we explore
a few more themes reflected in Baha i-inspired
approaches to depolarization. Specifically,
we ll explore how polarization dehumanizes the
other and what we can do to help rehumanize that
equation. And we ll explore how we can enhance
our capacity to listen and understand others,
which are critical to effective depolarization.
So there s a lot of exciting gems
there for us to discover today.
(musical interlude)
A key feature of toxic polarization is that
it often dehumanizes the other. We become
desensitized to the other. It s like we don t
really care how they feel and this isn t a view
we form after critical reflection we re operating
in auto pilot. We re guided by our impulse and
so unconsciously we prejudge the other and treat
them different to how we would like to be treated.
Now I emphasize that all of this is happening
at a subconscious level. And this is precisely
why it s so easy for us to fall in this trap
and become a victim to it. I say victim here
because we don t want this outcome we don t
want to be perpetrators of polarization - so
even as perpetrators, we are victims too because
it conflicts with the person we truly want to be.
Addressing this issue is simple on one hand
and complex on the other. It s relatively
easy to help people become aware of their
propensity to dehumanize another but it
s much harder getting them to rehumanize the
other. And this is our particular challenge.
Now to start our exploration, let s go back
to episode 20 and listen to Amanda Ripley as
she shares this delightful story about how
Nelson Mandela approached this challenge.
(Amanda Ripley) So over time, he learned to really
resist those impulses, and he in particular,
got really good at learning to never,
ever humiliate your opponent to the contrary,
to actually speak to them in their language.
I think the anecdote you're referencing is after
he got out of prison, while he was in prison,
he learned Afrikaans, he learned how
to speak the language of his oppressor,
which was hugely and is hugely controversial.
Right. Among yeah. So fascinating.
Yeah, because it's like, why should he have
to there's a million things you could say
about that. But anyway, he very purposefully
wanted to speak their language. And he has
another quote, which is basically, you can
speak to a man's head if you speak to him in
a language you understand, but if you speak to
him in his language, you can speak to his heart.
But when this high ranking official came to
his home, as is, after he's out of prison,
and they wanted to negotiate something, and this
particular official was a known overt racist,
it was not implicit. And Mandela had invited
him into his home, and when he got there,
he started speaking to him in his own language,
which takes the official by surprise, of course.
And then he asked him if he'd like some tea.
He says, 'yes', and then he
begins to prepare the tea for him.
Now, Mandela had staff at this point,
right. There were people there who
could do that sort of thing, but he
very intentionally did it himself.
And it was these small things he did in order
to interrupt the dance that they were in of
high conflict, to take him by surprise, so
that there was a little bit of humanity.
And when you see your opponent as a human and vice
versa, it is harder to dehumanize them. Right.
(Duane) I think this is a great starting point for
our conversation. It helps
us visualize the challenge.
And similarly, I think the whole story that
Rabbi Roly Matalon shares with us in episode
23 about the exchange he facilitated between
members of his congregation and people who
s views were at the other extreme of his
own, really highlights the value of this
kind of rehumanization. Just to remind you
his congregation was deeply left-leaning,
progressive liberals and they were distraught
when Trump was first elected. So he organized
an exchange with a group of prison-guards
who were deep Maga Republicans where his
group spent almost a week living with them in
rural Michigan and then they came up to New
York to live with his congregation all part
of an effort to better understand the other.
And Rabbi Roly explains in our interview how
this act of trying to appreciate the other
is a spiritual principle. Let s listen in as
he explains why this is a spiritual problem:
(Rabbi Roly)
It is a spiritual
problem because it is a problem about
discovering another person's humanity.
Humanity and the human soul are spiritual
issues, right? So just to hear somebody else,
to understand, to relate, not just to
dismiss because you have different political
ideas, but just to try to understand,
number one, that's a spiritual issue.
And look at the effect this all had. Rabbi
Roly summarizes this impact in telling the
story about how shortly after an atrocity in which
members of a Jewish congregation were killed in a
synagogue in Pittsburg, how these deep red Maga
Republicans that he had facilitated the exchange
with then sent a delegation to express their
solidarity. Again, let s listen in on his story:
(Rabbi Roly)
So two days later
we are on a phone call and they said, we
are so shocked by what happened because
now we know Jews and we feel you're
our family. And so an attack on a
synagogue is an attack on all of us, on our
family. I am so moved as I'm saying this.
(Duane) Amazing!
(Rabbi Roly) Right!
(Duane) Yeah.
(Rabbi Roly) Before we knew you Jews were Jews.
After we met you, you're our family. So we are
outraged. We are going to write a statement and
so on. We would like to come to the synagogue
to send a delegation to the synagogue the
following week to express our solidarity
and to read a statement before the congregation
and to denounce the anti-semitism in our country.
(Duane) I mean, this story is
so incredibly moving, right?
Rabbi Roly s congregation didn t
go Maga. The Republicans didn t go
Democrat. Their fundamental views hadn
t changed. But what did change was that
they came to view the humanity in
each other they were rehumanized.
And I want to take this now to its extreme. Even
when you re interacting with people who have done
terrible, terrible thing IF you want to see
a path forward if you want to see progress
towards depolarization then you have to
be able to see that person s humanity.
You have to be able to see the best in
them. And clearly this is no easy feat.
I think Andrea Bartoli really illustrated
this when he was talking about the process
of building peace in civil war-torn Mozambique.
That task required him and others to sit and
mediate with people who had committed the
most horrific acts possible but to find a
path forward he had to accompany them. Now this
wasn t easy for him in fact, he positions this
as the most challenging part of his work but
it s critical to navigating a journey forward.
And this is all about helping a person
in THEIR journey accompanying them in
expanding the horizons associated
with their own aspirations. And
this is the challenge for both friend
and foe alike to help accompany them.
Let s listen to him as he describes
this journey of accompaniment:
(Andrea Bartoli) So there is an interesting
gift in accompaniment that enriches our
lives tremendously, because those who
accompany are not guiding. Those who
are accompanying are not imposing. Those
who are accompanying are not oppressing.
Those who are accompanying are really
accompanying. They are the space we
need to be who we are. They are the
presence we need to be who we are.
So what we saw over and over again
with the elderly, with the immigrants,
with the kids, really with everybody. That
accompaniment is fundamentally transforming.
And of course, it transforms both. It
transforms the one that is accompanied,
but also the one that accompanies. Right. There
is a very strong, natural bond in accompaniment.
(Duane) And, of course, Baha is will
immediately recognize this as so much
effort over the past 25 years has been placed
in helping us learn to accompany others.
This challenge of re-tuning our framework of
rehumanizing the other of learning to accompany
the other - is one of the greatest challenges
in depolarization. So how do we do this?
And here, one of the most effective strategies
is to awaken a different identity within us. We
all live with multiple identities. When we go to
a sporting match cheering for our favorite team,
we awaken an identity. At home, we awaken
another. At work, yet another. In each of
these environments, there are norms and we are
constantly engaged in a negotiation between who
we believe ourselves to be who we want to be
- and who others in our midst expect us to be.
And this was a theme that Amanda Ripley
shared with us in episode 20 about how
people become entrenched in the identities
tied to their conflicts and how a big
part of getting out was to awaken other latent
identities from within. Like how Sandra,
a FARC rebel, had to rediscover her identity
as a mother to help escape her conflict.
The path to rehumanization often requires us
to awaken a different identity in ourselves
so we can reframe how we conceptualize the other.
So in the same way that the FARC rebel needs
to awaken her identity as mother in her path to
rehumanizing the other, we too need to awaken an
identity in this task and what identity is that?
You guessed it it s our spiritual identity
it s our identity as a Baha i. And this is
a theme that the Universal House of Justice
has been emphasizing in its recent messages:
a focus on identity and reinforcing and
cultivating our spiritual identity on
finding coherence in our lives a balance
between our material and spiritual selves.
And part of that Baha i identity is this business
of learning not to judge others. Of seeing the
humanity in others. Remember that story when
someone asked Abdul-Baha how He could be kind
to everyone and He replied that in every face
He looks into, He sees the face of His Father.
And this isn t just a Baha i thing. It s a
spiritual thing. To me, one of the clearest
indicators of whether a person s faith is a
positive or negative influence is whether it is
a source of a person judging themselves or whether
it s a yardstick for judging others. When it s a
tool for judging yourself it s amazing you become
a better person every day. But when it s a vehicle
for judging others, it s a harmful influence
in my opinion at least. For me that s the acid
test. Is your faith a yardstick for judging
yourself or a yardstick for judging others?
So this business of not judging
others, I think, is key to how
Baha is should approach depolarization it
s critical to the path of rehumanization.
And one more thing here. One of the main
strategies used by activists these days
to promote even very positive causes
is cancel culture putting pressure on
others to not interact with a specific person
because their views are at odds with yours.
Now I appreciate the noble intent here. It
s a way that people are promoting what are
often very worthy principles principles
we often agree with and want to promote
too. And it s easy to see how we
might resort to this tactic in our
interaction with like-minded people taking
a stand on an issue which we also uphold.
But despite the noble intent behind
this we need to see cancel culture
for what it really is at it s core it s a path to
dehumanization. Because YOU disagree with
someone, because you are in the right,
you are willing to brand THEM as an outcast.
Personally, I think that sounds dehumanizing.
Again I appreciate the intent but I worry that
it only adds fuel to the fire of polarization.
But hey, that s just my view you should
reflect on this for yourself and ask
yourself what cancel culture does in this path
of polarization. And if you agree with me here,
then you ll want to have heightened awareness
again in your own media consumption. So you
re guarded against resorting to getting
sucked into the gravity of cancel culture.
So rehumanizing is not easy. It requires
critical reflection on our own actions,
it requires awakening our spiritual identity,
it requires not judging others and seeing the
humanity in them, it requires accompaniment, and
it requires critical reflection on the strategies
which others might employ in their pursuit
of noble causes but which we need to question
because it might prove to be counter-productive.
Now that s a lot to reflect
on. But it all starts with an
aspiration an aspiration to rehumanize the other.
(musical interlude)
Now another key tool for improving our ability
to help depolarize is found in our capacity
to listen and understand others. And this is
a skill a skill we can develop and perfect.
When people don t feel listened to when
they don t feel understood they often
need to escalate speaking louder resorting to
more aggressive language even more aggressive
means. Much of this is about something
incredibly simple the need to be heard.
Now listening and understanding doesn t mean that
you ll necessarily agree with their views. It
just means that people feel that you weighed their
arguments that you gave it your due consideration.
Remember as Dr. Schirch helped us understand
so much of this path to depolarization is
about neurophysiology. It s
about the battle between our
reptile brain and our rational brain
between our emotional self and our
rational self between our lower or material
nature and our higher or divine nature.
So listening and understanding helps
elevate conversation to a more rational
level where we can disagree with
each other but disagree with respect.
And we were incredibly fortunate to be
given a gift through the experience of
world-famous mediator, Gary Friedman, and
that was in episode 22. And this was the
tool he shared which he calls looping a tool for
helping us better listen and understand others.
Now looping is about actively listening to what
a person says and then saying it back to them
in your own words and asking them whether you
understood them correctly. And if you didn t,
looping back and getting them to explain it
again until you re able to recite it back to
them to their satisfaction. That s a clear sign
that you actually understand what they re saying.
And as Gary explains, this need
to explain, in our own words,
what the other person says, ensures
that we listen properly. He says this:
(Gary Friedman). You can't loop unless you
listen, and you can't listen unless you've
turned your attention to now what's
happening before you in this moment.
Learning to listen to others is an incredibly
important skill for Baha is to develop in fact,
I think it s the one of the most important
qualities in learning to share the Faith with
others. Many people think that effective
teaching is about learning to perfect a
pitch about being a good public speaker
about crafting good arguments. But in my
experience it s about learning to listen hear
and understand a person s needs so that you
can guide them to fulfilling their aspiration
so you can answer THEIR questions so you can
direct them to the wonderful and precious gifts
in our Faith that intersect with their journeys.
I remember one learned Baha i once told me
that Abdul-Baha once said that we should
reflect on why God gave us two ears but only
one mouth. I ve never found that reference,
but it s such an interesting idea, right. That
we should listen twice as much as we talk.
But clearly, Abdul-Baha was a master in the art of
listening. Here s a story that Colby Ives
shares in his book, Portals to Freedom,
about his interaction with Abdul-Baha
which illustrates this. He says:
I have heard certain people described as
"good listeners," but never had I imagined
such a "listener" as Abdu l-Bah . It was more
than a sympathetic absorption of what the ear
received. It was as though the two individualities
became one; as if He so closely identified Himself
with the one speaking that a merging
of spirits occurred which made a verbal
response almost unnecessary, superfluous. As
I write, the words of Bah u ll h recur to me:
"When the sincere servant calls to Me
in prayer I become the very ear with
which He heareth My reply That was just it!
Abdu l-Bah seemed to listen with my ears.
How incredible, right! We have to listen with
the other person s ears. I love that metaphor.
And, of course, listening is something
we can actually train for. Amanda Ripley,
for example, recommended the
research of Dr. Graham Bodie who,
among other things, found that people only
feel listened to 5% of the time. Just 5%!
And researchers like Dr. Bodie offer courses
to help people improve their listening skills.
You can search for his courses or for hundreds of
others often called training for active listening.
So improving our capacity to
listen and understand others
is another example of how we should
approach depolarization as Baha is.
(musical interlude)
So we ve covered a lot of ground
today as we explore Baha i-inspired
approaches to depolarization. But
we still have more ground to cover.
In our next episode, we ll explore two
more strategies toward depolarization
based on the scientific literature and
we ll reflect on how Baha i principles
might further contribute to these approaches:
First, how to help break binaries
narratives that reduce problems to
conflict between two opposing forces.
And finally, we ll explore how we can
enhance the environments under which contact
between antagonistic groups are facilitated.
Wow! That s going to be an exciting discussion.
So don t miss out!
Join me again next time as we continue our
conversation for social transformation.
That s next time on Society Builders.
(Music). Society Builders pave the way
To a better world to a better day
A united approach to buil-ding a new society
There s a crisis facing humanity
People suffer from a lack of unity
It s time for a bet-ter p-ath to a new society
Join our conversation
For social transformation
Society Builders
So engage with your local communities
And explore all the exciting possibilities
We can elevate the atmosphere in which we move
The paradigm is shifting
It is so very uplifting
It s a new beat, a new song, a brand new groove
Join our conversation
For social transformation
Society Builders
The Baha i Faith has a lot to say
Helping people to discover a better way
With discourse and social action framed by un-i-ty
Now the time has come to lift our game
And apply the teachings of the Greatest Name
And rise to meet the glory of our destiny
Join our conversation
For social transformation
Society Builders
Join our conversation
For social transformation
Society Builders