Need to use a SharePoint intranet due to internal policies, company transitions, or legacy systems? When all the available information is overly technical or negative, where do you turn? Enter Fresh Perspectives: Living in the reality of SharePoint intranets. We provide useful, jargon-free insights and real-world examples to help you maximize the benefits of SharePoint intranets and tackle its challenges. Pro-SharePoint but realistic, we debunk misconceptions and share product management insights from Fresh Intranet.
David Bowman (01:32.216)
Wonderful. Hello and welcome to another episode of Fresh Perspectives. I am David Bowman, the product director for Fresh.
Jarbas (01:40.013)
I'm Jarbas Horst, Senior Product Manager for Fresh. Great to be here. We got there. Second run. But David, so you look, my background looks different today. And that's because I'm not in Germany. I'm here in London in our office. And this is how nice it looks, by the way, for people who haven't visited us yet. By the way, if you're a client, yeah, it would also be nice to welcome you one of those days in the office. Yeah.
David Bowman (01:44.066)
We got there this time.
David Bowman (01:51.554)
Yes.
David Bowman (02:04.706)
Yes. And now we want to say hello to our friends at i4-you today.
Jarbas (02:10.921)
yes, Peter, Bo, Iris and the team is doing an amazing job of helping us with different clients in the Netherlands and the other they also have like quite nice events coming in the upcoming months. Yeah, we're looking forward to that.
David Bowman (02:25.688)
Yes. Yes, hello team, i4-you.
Jarbas (02:30.845)
But not just them, right? Also internally here, our team has been doing a very good job.
David Bowman (02:37.602)
Yes, yeah, we've just, I say we, the team have just put the finishing touches to the latest release of Fresh, which has been very exciting. So thank you, Maddie, Rafa, and all of the team that are working on the product.
Jarbas (02:50.244)
yeah, excellent release once again.
David Bowman (02:51.788)
Yes. And I guess in line with the topic for today, we're doing this kind of AI revisited in SharePoint intranets. The release is sort of representative of a lot of the conversations that we've been having lately. Two key features in that release of the product, one of which on newsletters and sending emails to people and making sure that we're able to use that as a channel.
SharePoint content going out in newsletters and tracking and identifying who's clicking links and consuming content from that as a channel. And the second feature, which is some enhancements that we've made to intranet search, bringing more AI features into Fresh intranet. And I guess that's been a, you know, it feels like bit of a conflict on one hand to be talking about sending more emails and on the other hand, be talking about AI integrations in search.
Jarbas (03:41.911)
this.
Jarbas (03:47.791)
We talked about that in the previous episode. As a vendor, we need to go both ways. In terms of addressing the newsletters, requirements that people have now, basic requirements still. But also looking ahead, where is the market going? And in this case, of course, the training is all around AI and making sure that we're also supporting our clients in that direction.
David Bowman (04:14.348)
Yeah, and you know, definitely I think that it's representative of the conflict that people that are working in this field of digital employee experience are confronting this huge range of challenges now with, you know, how do I connect my employees to the content that we've got in our organization strategy, news updates, people, policies, documents, all of the content that lives, you know, typically in an intranet. you know, those challenges all the way through to how do I encourage people to be using AI to be
more efficient, get more information, get answers to questions rather than just be reading more documents. So, you know, this world, the number of things that you've got to be building awareness of grows on a daily basis.
Jarbas (04:57.615)
Since we are touching on the release items here, one of the things we did was the enhancement of the profile panel. So making that really appealing, nice design, nice look and feel, adding an Org chart to that. So I had the chance to show that to someone yesterday and they were like, So the design was really well done there.
David Bowman (05:21.134)
And this has partly been driven by Delve being retired last year. for anyone not aware, there was an app called Delve, which had a lot of fanfare when it was launched. Unfortunately, it maybe it was rebadged as Snoop by a lot of customers that we working with because it allowed you to keep tabs on content that maybe you weren't necessarily aware existed across the organization.
Jarbas (05:26.255)
Good point.
David Bowman (05:47.724)
At the time, we thought this was a really cool product and introduced lots of things through the Microsoft Graph, but has now been retired. So we have created effectively a replacement for what was the user profile page.
Jarbas (05:59.289)
Right.
David Bowman (06:02.966)
So look, I think on the topic for today of AI Revisited then, we were just going to do a quick sort of status update on the state of play with SharePoint intranets and AI, because this is a changing field. There's some new things that have been launched since we did the last episode on this topic. So just to kind of cover this off, Co-Pilot, alive and well in increasing number of organizations.
and becoming more more embedded in the applications that people are using on a daily basis. think that's sort of a fair assessment of where we are with Copilot.
Jarbas (06:39.15)
It is, is. Well, kind of going to the next area of the top one address. So it's kind of the co-pilot in SharePoint and that becoming reality. think that's special and very positive to see like now co-pilot available in SharePoint. So you can like now hit that co-pilot icon on the kind of header section of SharePoint and you have access like to this SharePoint agent directly then in the SharePoint context.
where you can then ask for questions relating to your data within a SharePoint site.
David Bowman (07:15.362)
And just so it's really clear for anybody listening on this, that this allows you to create an agent in SharePoint, which is typically aimed at creating an agent for a document, for a list library, for the site. What is not currently available yet is the functionality that a lot of people will have seen advertised from Microsoft of using the SharePoint Co-Pilot to create pages. So what's available is the SharePoint agents, but not yet.
for being able to create pages directly in SharePoint.
Jarbas (07:47.249)
So you can create one or more agents that will then integrate with your data or access your data on your behalf. think that's always important to keep in mind when you're talking about compilers. A compiler does never access data that you are not allowed to access yourself. So if you would go and look for documents, if you don't have access to that, then the compiler doesn't have to access data. And as you mentioned, so you can then create multiple agents that can then, let's say,
access data in one library, in multiple libraries within a site, multiple folders. So it becomes an easy way to retrieve information and from multiple documents. And I think the nice aspect is that you can also share or include this agent or those agents in Teams discussions. So you can have an expert participate in those discussions. think, let's say, if you're having an RFP discussion, for example, then
David Bowman (08:43.638)
A request for proposal, let's... Yes. Or a contract, a discussion about a contract, a legal document, for example.
Jarbas (08:45.401)
Request for proposal, yes. Which we're, yeah.
And then you have the NectarXpert like help you with quick contacts.
David Bowman (08:56.536)
So one of the participants in that conversation in Teams could be this agent that's been created, which has a good understanding of this contract or all contracts that are in the library. And you can be asking this thing questions whilst in a Teams chat with a number of other people.
So, you know, some really powerful, useful functionality there, making documents, content, information stored in SharePoint kind of come alive in conversations and discussions.
Jarbas (09:28.028)
So that's looking towards what SharePoint provides, and Microsoft provides a co-pilot. And in Fresh, we have also extended functionalities in Fresh Mind, which is kind of the label that we gave to describe all of the capabilities that we have within the product. And as you mentioned previously, sorry, go. Yeah.
David Bowman (09:39.256)
Yeah.
David Bowman (09:46.744)
Yeah, so the search enhancements, we have agents that we're building ourselves that sit inside of the fresh products. And I'm sure other vendors will be creating these AI integrations as well. So the kind of state of play for AI and SharePoint intranets, Copilot, the SharePoint Copilot, third party integrations, and these new SharePoint agents that are available.
Jarbas (10:14.929)
Right. the future doesn't, the positive doesn't end there, right? So we have kind of the AI integrations directly in the context of the infinite for the people who want to use it there. And the next step is then looking towards co-pilot, isn't it? Like you post something very interesting, I'll link it in David, and then you can help us there.
David Bowman (10:35.692)
Yeah, so this is really this ongoing hypothesis that we've got about whether Copilot and Copilot agents are an existential threat for the intranet. And really the challenge that we've set ourselves here is being able to create something that doesn't require a web browser, but allows people to be able to interact, have conversations with and interact with content that's in the intranet. And, Jarbas, you and I have been at events over the last couple of weeks showcasing this
feature in particular to people, gathering feedback, gathering reactions, and I think from conversations that we've been having that it sounds like we've had very similar responses.
Jarbas (11:14.942)
We did. So, that very right. So I joined the Microsoft AI Tour in London, which took place yesterday. So that's reason why I'm still here. And David, you had the opportunity to join the AI Horizons event. How was that? So what is that event about? Can you tell us a bit more about that?
David Bowman (11:36.152)
Sure, one of our partners is a company called Ragan Communications and they organize internal comms-orientated events or comms-orientated events in the US, various cities across the US. And this was a new event for them, which has really been created out of the interest that they've seen from their audience in AI. So the AI Horizons event is a kind of new event for them, focused on...
internal comms, external comms, marketing, and the impact that AI is having in that area. So, not a technical event particularly, primarily aimed at communications marketing professionals that are trying to upskill and learn about what's happening in this developing field. Based in Miami, so was great to get away from the cold weather last week. It'd nice to come back to the UK to a bit of sunshine.
not quite as warm as was in Miami. And we were a sponsor of that event, right? So we had a little booth there talking about some of our AI integrations and running a, we were participating in a panel session.
Jarbas (12:49.204)
All right, that's really good news. So anyway, you weren't alone there, right? So you were joined by a partner of ours.
David Bowman (12:55.702)
Yes, so we were there with a partner of ours based in the US called Klarinet Solutions and we were there talking to a US audience about intranet, SharePoint, employee engagement on this theme of how AI is transforming this space.
Jarbas (13:13.737)
And so, like, know, the focus of the event was about AI. what was your impression when it comes to AI? So where are people when it comes to AI? So do they share the same reality that we share? So I think we are very aware of the possibilities. How is that like?
David Bowman (13:34.252)
Yeah, so I think from the conversations that I was having at that event, both with people that were coming to the booth, conversations we were having on the panel session, discussions that I was having with other vendors while we were there, is I think really we've got kind of two groups of people forming in this space. People that are actively using AI tend to be more kind of technical people.
maybe could be classified as the early adopters crew that are making use of AI, finding ways of using AI. And the second group of people that, you know, maybe AI still doesn't make a huge amount of sense for them. Maybe they've been experimenting with it, but not necessarily clear on the value that it could add for them, the role that it might play in their kind of daily working lives.
One of the things I thought was a really useful articulation on the panel session was this articulation about everyday AI, right? And I really liked that as a kind of concept that things like Copilot, for example, or OpenAI's ChatGPT kind of being classified as these everyday AI tools. And whilst I like that definition, I think that it probably hides the fact that a lot of people using those tools aren't really getting the support that they need.
to be able to know how to embed this into their daily lives or to be able to drive the value from it that their organization would like them to be able to. And I think that there's probably a responsibility there for organizations to provide more leadership guidance and maybe clearer instruction for people on how to use these tools, what to do with them. I think unfortunately,
AI, generative AI, Copilot, know, these tools kind of feel a bit like, you know, maybe they're magic. Unfortunately, they aren't magic. Um, and, know, alongside every other technology project that I've seen in the last 20 years, um, AI initiatives need change management. They needs adoption. They need training. They need clear guidance and communication. And, you know, I think people need, people need to be brought along on the journey a bit, because I think we're kind of in that sort of awkward time now where
Jarbas (15:45.942)
this.
Jarbas (15:56.939)
Mm.
David Bowman (15:57.678)
If you haven't explored the tool set and haven't found the use cases that work for you, it's maybe a bit awkward now to say, I don't get it or I don't understand it. So, know, organizations, I think are going to have to assume that there are people that don't get it, but aren't necessarily comfortable with saying they don't get it.
Jarbas (16:16.533)
Right. Well, I was at the event, as I mentioned previously. So I had a discussion with the CIO, who was telling me, we bought 50 licenses of Co-Pilot, so a large organization, and they are piloting that now. And what he was saying, like, well, I don't have time, or we don't have time, like, to focus on adoption ourselves. So we need support in that. So like that the people can really, like, the most out of Co-Pilot, which goes beyond just like, you know, the simple prompts.
David Bowman (16:36.472)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jarbas (16:45.756)
But we understand what are the scenarios where we need support. And that can be, of course, meeting notes is one of the common things and benefits that people can recognize very quickly and get answers around that. But there are, of course, other scenarios where people can also take advantage of the benefits that COPI can provide.
David Bowman (17:05.195)
Yeah, yeah, I think we were talking about this with Manesh a couple of a couple of episodes ago. And you know, we were talking about the more complex the outcome that you're trying to create the more complex the prompt needs to be and formulating that complex prompt right using that GCSE framework or other frameworks that are available. You know, unless you are taking the time to explain to people the benefits of having these frameworks and helping people understand how to craft these more complex prompts.
Jarbas (17:15.562)
Mm-hmm.
David Bowman (17:33.304)
people aren't going to find this themselves. This is a complicated technology that's going to need a little bit more support for people to pick it up.
Jarbas (17:35.692)
Yes.
Jarbas (17:42.667)
It takes time and it's good to ask for support. Look at that maybe by an e-commerce company who is focusing on that as we do here, for example, with Advania. and get that support.
David Bowman (17:52.204)
Yeah, well, I think that in the first instance, recognizing that, you know, if your AI initiative is maybe not producing the benefits that you were anticipating, or you're not seeing the usage of the tools that you've got, it is worth going back to kind of change management principles of have we done enough training? we provided enough support? We provided enough communications to people have access to the resources that they need that just, you know, taking it back there rather than asking people directly and just assuming that people aren't aren't necessarily getting this.
I think one other one other thing that I thought was an observation from the internal comms event specifically is that a lot of the use cases that have been aimed at internal communications have been about content creation, right? You know, using AI tools to create new content with a certain style, with a certain length, with a certain format. And on one hand, you've got that this is the primary use case that's being promoted to people in comms marketing. And on the other hand, saying
you know, the intranet is now full of AI generated slop and that, you you've got to, you've to be careful about, you know, authenticity. So you're kind of creating this sort of weird dynamic where the main use case that people are being told to use is content creation. And yet if you're using it for content creation, that might be bad. That is that's what it's place to be.
Jarbas (19:08.937)
Can I use it or not? Yes. Good point. You also mentioned that one of the ideas of joining this event was to talk about the agent we have in Fresh, Focal Pilot. That agent is focused on news, announcements, engaged content. What was the type of feedback that you got regarding that agent?
David Bowman (19:34.2)
Yes, good question. And again, kind of back to those two groups really, that the people that are using everyday AI every day and are kind of embedded in the world of agents and tools like Copilot, ChatGPT get why we would be spending time and energy creating these things. They're kind of winding time forward, thinking about what this model might look like in the future. I think the other group of people that are there that are
trying to connect their frontline employees to their content or trying to get people out of email or have a lot of content information insights that isn't all that well governed. You know, they are the problems that those people are trying to tackle. They're not thinking about how do I move this experience into co-pilot, right? You know, they're so far away from that being the next problem that they're tackling. So, you know, I think it's, it's, it was really useful to be able to show, to be able to have something that articulates the
potential future for these tools and services, but you know it was a good reminder for me for how important the basics still are to most people.
Jarbas (20:42.208)
I got very similar type of feedback. I mean, in general, like on the observation of where people are, at which level they are in terms of AI, but noticing also that they have very basic requirements that need to be addressed before they can even think of using AI. For example, if you are coming from on-premises, which is the reality for some organizations, and so AI is, you want to use that, but there is still like need to solve that aspect that you need to move applications.
David Bowman (21:04.651)
Yeah.
Jarbas (21:11.267)
from on premises to the cloud, then we take advantage of Copilot, of maybe FreshMind for example, in the context of intranet and so on.
David Bowman (21:20.029)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. One of the questions that we were talking about on the panel that I attended was, you know, what are the things that comms teams need to be focused on? And, you know, I saying on that, that understanding where your technical debt is, right? Developing a good relationship with IT, understanding where they're going, where's the technical debt, what are the problems that are going to prevent you from being able to pivot and use AI and agents?
not over-investing in point solutions that are going to make an integration problem worse, not moving big chunks of your data off to some other software as a service platform, that really getting a good understanding of if we wanted to use agents tomorrow, are we there? Do we have the systems and the governance in place to be able to get there? That bit of work becomes important for organizations.
Jarbas (22:07.064)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jarbas (22:16.059)
Yes, yes. Well, it can sound very futuristic, like you think of AI in some cases. So if you are still trying to solve the basics and then also scenarios that you can use that for. But as we made, you cannot forget that. You cannot forget that AI is also part of the game.
David Bowman (22:30.882)
Yes. Yes. Yeah. So you were a completely different type of event this week. Yesterday, in fact, you are also at the time of recording the Microsoft AI Roadshow. Tell us a bit about what was it, where was it, who was there.
Jarbas (22:39.354)
this.
Jarbas (22:48.09)
Yeah, so the Microsoft AI Tour is a series of events for Microsoft where they aim to promote all the capabilities that Microsoft has around AI. So that means all of Microsoft capabilities around AI. So that is not just focusing on Microsoft 365 and co-pilot. Of course, that's a big topic there. But Microsoft is active in so many areas when it comes to AI in Azure, Azure OpenAI, and then let's say GitHub, have GitHub co-pilot as well.
fabric and so on. So there is a, there are a lot of places where AI is available in the Microsoft portfolio. And that event is about that, right? So bring people close to all of this, possibilities. have, of course, the sponsors as we were there with fresh, with Antonia, our parent company. and, also like Microsoft people directly, on site to help answer questions around those. Let's say you get a co-pilot in Azure and Microsoft 365 also like
a big focus also on the compiled enabled devices, promoting that as well. So as you see, it's an event that covers everything about Microsoft and that, of course, a lot of excitement from the audience. And that means that people attending that event have very different expectations and backgrounds. So in your case, talking about the AI Horizons event, people are very focused on comms.
In this case, you have people from different audiences. But yes, definitely.
David Bowman (24:21.022)
Was it primarily a technical audience? that fair to say?
Jarbas (24:24.86)
I saw like from, yes, I think, yes, but like then, and then in that scenario, from decision makers to developers, you know, we have like a very, very good mix of our attendees there.
David Bowman (24:38.914)
And what was, you said that we were there with our parent company, Advania, who had a pretty impressive looking stand talking about kind of AI services, custom development. There's a pretty broad range of things that Advania offer to a customer base. And Fresh was obviously one of those things, because we're inside the of company, inside the company structure. What were the conversations that you were having with people on the stand?
Jarbas (24:59.292)
Yes.
David Bowman (25:08.984)
Themes, findings, similar to me, you're all very different.
Jarbas (25:12.635)
Yes, well, as you mentioned, Adavania, we were a featured partner at that event, featured sponsor. So we had a big presence there. We had that with a big team going from C-level, like our CEO was there as well and Hege our group CEO, which was really nice to have there as well. So when I was approaching people and talking to them, I was first trying to understand, so what are the requirements? And we saw people looking
for things around Power Platform, doing custom development with AI, like Azure OpenAI in this case, and also discussions around the intranet. One thing that I noticed in terms of preparation and move, the more specific it be with your messaging, the easier it is for the audience to also understand what are the steps that you provide. Because people see it's an AI event.
But what are the specific things that we can help them solve? Right, so if it's power platform, so you find that out as you talk to them But that requires kind of that initial discussion for it really like to find out the requirements and I think that's it's good for both isn't it like if you are specific as a vendor and People also specific with their requirements so you can have a good match
David Bowman (26:33.794)
Yeah, because AI is an incredibly broad topic. even within, if you put the kind of Microsoft 365 constraint on AI, the number of places that it appears, the number of things, the amount of potential that you can have across all of the applications in the suite. This is a very broad topic covering a very broad range of things people roles.
Jarbas (26:55.167)
It is. So in terms of discussions that I had, especially in this intranet context, I noticed that people are interested in AI and they want to use that. But also I noticed, as you said, people have very basic requirements. coming from SharePoint out of the box and they want to do more with AI now. They have a large organization with 5,000 people. So how can we reach our
employees properly. So without the box, that's not enough. And we would like a solution to help us solve that. Or this now that I mentioned before about on premises, that was the reality of a client I was talking to. So like they, they have an intranet on premises that has been a net like for many years now, they want to use AI, they want to modernize things, but they need to first like to go away from on premises, and then move back to cloud and
Well, the goal is to do that in SharePoint.
David Bowman (27:54.382)
I imagine going along to those events where, knowing Microsoft, it'll be a very shiny event with lots of amazing looking presentations, that coming away from that event back to your role, the challenge that you've got there to get to a place where you could even think about using those AI tools must feel like a really overwhelming journey for people.
Jarbas (28:16.326)
Yes, yes. Maybe that saves also as a motivation to do that step towards, let's say, cloud then finally adopted. So that's my hope there. And yeah, we're looking forward to continue that discussions and see how we can help those clients.
David Bowman (28:23.532)
Yeah.
David Bowman (28:31.278)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And, you know, I think that there is a strong role for vendors to have in this space about helping to provide kind of practical advice and guidance rather than just making this problem worse in a lot of cases by adding more technology, chucking in more services, you know, building up a catalog of large language models and AI services that don't always talk to each other all that well. So
Jarbas (28:56.838)
Yes.
David Bowman (29:00.504)
You know, there is a role, you know, given that this is a overwhelming and potentially confusing area to make sure that, you know, on one hand, vendors are being very clear and specific about the prerequisites, what's required, what they're introducing and the potential legacy that that may leave. But also for people to be, you know, the kind of more clear and specific you are in your requirement, the more likely it is that you're to find a good match for a vendor.
Jarbas (29:23.968)
Yes, definitely. I think, you know, this thing of adoption, because everyone keeps saying adoption and focusing on adoption and changing adoption. That's important. That's really important. You know, it's like from those companies that are piloting co-pilot to companies, well, maybe piloting co-pilot maybe with 50, maybe with 1000 slices, depending on the size of the organization. And it's really important to understand the use cases of the employees first.
We have rounds of discussions with the employees, understanding what are the areas in your workflow and where can AI support you with that. think understanding that first, really then how people properly adopt Co-Pilot and of course AI in general. I that's really important. It's not underestimate the value of changing and adoption work that happens there.
David Bowman (30:16.718)
Yeah. You know, I worry sometimes that the pandemic created a false sense of how easy change management is. You know, we went from a position where hardly anybody was, well, hardly anybody was using Teams is probably a silly thing to say, less people were using Teams before the pandemic. Pandemic hits, forced people to think about how they were going to connect and promote collaboration between their employees. So Teams became a really obvious
Jarbas (30:33.696)
Yeah.
David Bowman (30:45.56)
piece of software to get people to use. There is no, hopefully no similar catalyst for generative AI here. And, you know, getting back to those basic principles of change management, training, adoption, communications, you know, that, as you say, that I think that becomes very, very important for driving successful initiatives.
Jarbas (30:50.986)
Yes.
Jarbas (30:57.556)
Very good point,
Jarbas (31:03.007)
Yes.
Yes, that's true. All of a sudden people had to work from home and you had that challenge to connect people and Teams was easy. Teams was already there available and it's a benefit of Microsoft and CS5 in general. We have so many applications. Teams was there and it was easy to adopt it. think that's the solution for Copilot. There is a solution there already. It's focusing on business change and adoption.
and helping them like the employees in this team like this and ours and yeah, if they make that properly
David Bowman (31:39.82)
It's a good job that isn't the first thing that gets cut from a budget though, right? On that note, let's bring this to a conclusion then. So, you know, I think my main takeaway, I think as a vendor from the experiences that I've had in the last couple of weeks is we need to do a really good job of explaining and positioning why things like agents are going to be important, useful, valuable to everybody in the organization.
rather than just creating messaging that's going to land with somebody in IT or an early adopter, you know, making sure that this has value up and down the, up and down the organization at all levels and ranges and ability, rather than just continuing to throw more technology onto the pile. What about you? What's your, what's your main takeaway?
Jarbas (32:12.843)
Mm-hmm.
Jarbas (32:29.555)
I think, it's, it's, you need to people have focused, they're not focused, but they still have like the basic chance to solve. And that, and that's, that's an area that we as a vendor cannot forget. Right. So we need to be providing solutions. Of course AI is exciting and we want to, well, we want to do things with the technology. We want like to enable scenarios within the product. that is rewarding also. And, and nice when you have that happen. Now you need those like to.
David Bowman (32:42.285)
Yes.
Jarbas (32:58.486)
you know, like the things that we have done with newsletter and editor calendar is bring kind of those simple elements within the product and help people like solve those basic styles first. then they can also like address the AI elements and well, not just kind of those newsletters and editor calendar, but also things like content management, right? So helping them like solve the foundation first, then successfully adopt AI. So I that's...
David Bowman (33:27.234)
walking before running.
Jarbas (33:29.004)
Yes, yes. Very good.
David Bowman (33:31.84)
Well, let's leave it there for today. Good to see you. Enjoy London.
Jarbas (33:36.226)
Thank you David, talk to you again. Cheers.
David Bowman (33:38.36)
Bye bye.