Ep. 67: It’s the Plugging Away that will Win You the Day

When you're lost in the Wild, and you're scared as a child,
    And Death looks you bang in the eye,
And you're sore as a boil, it's according to Hoyle
    To cock your revolver and . . . die.
But the Code of a Man says: "Fight all you can,"
    And self-dissolution is barred.
In hunger and woe, oh, it's easy to blow . . .
    It's the hell-served-for-breakfast that's hard.

"You're sick of the game!" Well, now, that's a shame.
    You're young and you're brave and you're bright.
"You've had a raw deal!" I know — but don't squeal,
    Buck up, do your damnedest, and fight.
It's the plugging away that will win you the day,
    So don't be a piker, old pard!
Just draw on your grit; it's so easy to quit:
    It's the keeping-your-chin-up that's hard.

It's easy to cry that you're beaten — and die;
    It's easy to crawfish and crawl;
But to fight and to fight when hope's out of sight —
    Why, that's the best game of them all!
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
    All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try — it's dead easy to die,
    It's the keeping-on-living that's hard.

 

- Robert Service

_____

Ret. RCMP Sgt. Major Seb Lavoie @slavccmdr

https://www.instagram.com/slavccmdr

Aside from being a powerful poem, it will also make sense in the context of this podcast with Ret. RCMP Emergency Response Team (ERT) Sgt. Major Seb Lavoie

Seb is a caring, passionate, and driven leader who has spent his life being of service to others. Facing the possibility of a leg amputation, embarking on a new business, and writing a book with his good friend in the process, Seb's life adventures are still in high gear. Seb doesn't have a road map, and the path forward isn't clear, but he knows what he would like to see for himself in his life and is using everything he has learned to fill in the blanks to make his end goal a reality and enjoying the journey and the process.

If you are looking for inspiration, if you have a goal you would like to achieve, if you are facing some life changing decisions, this podcast is for you.

_____

 

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What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

I'm Travis Bader, and this
is the Silvercore podcast.

Silvercore has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge

necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years, and

we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.

If you enjoy the positive and educational
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everything that silver horse stands for.

If you'd like to learn more
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Silvercore Club and community,
visit our website at Silvercoer.ca

back by popular demand.

Recently retired 20 year ERCP veteran,
17 of those years on tactical teams,

four and a half years with a Colbert
section seven years team leader of the

lower mainland emergency response team.

Two years divisional Sergeant
major for BC last podcast.

That'd be silver four podcast episode 55.

I started by butchering your
name, but I ended with a feeling

of reconnecting with a loss from.

Welcome back to the
Silvercore Podcast of Lavoie.

Thank you for having me.

And by the way, the math
doesn't add up here.

So there's some self with

this, these numbers.

I pulled this all from the internet, so

it was on the internet.

It must be true.

Um, I figured I'd just get all of the
main points out of the way to begin

with and anybody who wants to listen
in greater detail, all of that can go

back to episode 55 because I was a very
popular podcast, very powerful, a lot

of really good information in there.

And in this podcast, I was really
hoping we'd be able to do a few things.

One a lot has happened in your
life since we spoke last, a

lot of really exciting things.

And number two, you've been
on a number of podcasts.

You have had the opportunity to
grow as an orator to be able to,

uh, express yourself with others.

But quite often, what happens is a
podcaster will act as an interviewer and

they'll ask questions of their guests.

And I, sometimes there's a two-way flow
of communication that goes back and forth.

Sometimes it's really one way.

And if people are just meeting you for
the first time, they tend to focus on

the same things over and over again.

And if we're to treat podcasts.

As something that we can use
to get better in our own lives,

sorta like go into the gym.

If you do the same exercises over
and over again, you're not really

growing, you're not pushing yourself.

So maybe we can push past some
of the common things that people

may be new about, use some of
the myths or misconceptions.

And, uh, see if we can
both grow in this episode.

Sounds like an ambush.

Well, okay.

So a lot's happened to you since
we talked last, uh, first one I'm

really excited to talk about is
something that's really positive.

I'm watching on your Instagram
feed and it looks like you've

got something in the works here.

Something that you're building.

Do you want to talk about this?

Yeah.

I mean, there's, I'm constantly
building something, right?

So it's, it's, it's, um, not unusual
for me to have a few projects on the go.

Uh, there's the benefit of having retired
from the RCMP so that I can take on

to things that are meaningful to me.

And, uh, and that's what my company
Raven's strategic has been all about.

And people are asking, you know,
what do you do specifically?

I'm like, well, it depends.

What do I want to do?

And then my company is the
umbrella to it, you know?

And so I've had, uh, you know,
a variety of different pursuits.

And I think the one you're
probably referring to is, um, a

book project that I'm working on.

Yeah.

So a book project that I'm working
on with, uh, an, uh, another, uh,

amazing individual by the name of
Sean Taylor, who's, um, you know, a

retired Pathfinder's second commando
joint task force, two assaulter

team leaders, sniper, you know,
just a, an overall incredible man.

Um, he's also, you know, a coach
that's coached world champs in, in,

in mountain biking and downhill,
downhill racing or extended.

I can't remember like long
distance racing or something.

Um, anyways, just an amazing
orator and an amazing, um, human.

And so we've been working on
this book project together, which

has been absolutely exciting.

We cannot wait to push it out.

So he's bringing military top to your
special forces background into this book.

And you're bringing talk to your
law enforcement background into

the book is, is, is that yeah,

absolutely.

And I mean, the book, the target
audience is everybody that's in

pursuit of excellence and, and, and
some of our experiences in our own

pursuit of excellence in, and how.

If I was, if I was to put it into
words, just imagine if you are putting

all your eggs in the same basket and
you were pursuing a, you're a single,

single singularly minded to one goal to
go somewhere and be at the tip of the

spear along the way, our casualties,
those casualties may be, you know,

family, they may be other endeavors.

You might have be you, you
could have benefited from, or,

or whatever the case may be.

So as people that, um, ended exactly
where we wanted to be in terms of

career, there was a cost to this.

And what we are, what we're doing
is we're looking back going.

I wish I knew this when I was 20,
you know, like I'm 45 years old.

Now.

I wish I could go back in time
and speak to my 20 year old self

and see where I could have avoided
some of those traps, you know?

And so our that's exactly, and that's
precisely what we are bringing, how

to pursue excellence, but mitigate
the risk associated with that pursuit.

If that makes any sense,

it makes a ton of sense.

Yeah.

You know, I've always said
what a man thinks he will do.

If you want to do something, you
could make it happen when you get

to the finish line and the goals.

And you look back, did the
ends justify the means.

And that's a question that people have
to ask themselves to, to approach that

with the, uh, the knowledge ahead of
time is invaluable knowing that, okay.

Yeah, there are things that
will suffer if I want to push.

If I think that money is a worthwhile
endeavor for me, and I really

want to have lots of money, I'll
have lots of money, but my family

life might suffer my friends.

I might not be seeing them.

I might not be learning a musical
instrument or doing any of these

other things that outside may be in
the shop woodworking or metalworking.

I might put all of that stuff
aside, so my can single-mindedly

pursue that one endeavor.

So, okay.

Obviously, obviously you've
achieved some pretty great things

in this very short period of time.

Things that a lot of people will look to
and say, man, I wish I could do the same.

And I think you would probably turn
around and tell them, you can do

the same if you put your head to it.

But what would you tell your 20 year old
self, if you were looking to getting into,

uh, in your situation he wanted to, when
you approach policing, you did so with the

single-minded goal, you wanted to be hurt.

You want it to be here at T what
would you tell your 20 year old self?

Is that a worthwhile endeavor?

Oh,

yeah, absolutely.

In terms of having regrets, um,
for the accomplishment themselves,

no, that's never happened.

And we know that there is a cost
to sacrifice for the collective.

So there is always going to be a cost.

It's not like you can completely
eliminate the cost that's

associated with a life service.

But what we are looking at is was there
anywhere along the lines where I started

blurring the lines myself, and self-impose
some hardship that shouldn't have been, or

to my, or self-imposed to myself or impose
on my family or impose on my friends or

my coworkers or whatever the case may be.

And w w would there have been a way
for me to achieve the same thing

without leaving, you know, a trail
of bodies along the way, so to speak.

Right?

And so for me, in terms of say
my first marriage, and I mean,

it, it is what it is in policing.

The divorce rates are extremely
high, but when I look back at some

of my say, teammates that have
an incredible family life and are

sustaining their, their operations and
are super competent operators, I look

back and I'm like, okay, where did
I go wrong with my family, with my.

Wife where my, you know, and,
and what can I learn from that?

It is not to say that at the end of
the day, I'd be looking back saying,

well, I wish I stayed home, but I
think would be surmised to think that

I didn't do anything wrong as I was
going through the system, through

the pipeline, towards my goal.

And then ultimately what it comes down
to is we're always going somewhere.

Right.

But the problem is, is when you're
going somewhere, sometimes you

miss the entire journey and life.

Isn't about the destination.

It's about the journey.

And so for me, I could have appreciated,
there is no doubt in my mind that I

could have, I could have appreciated the
things that I've undertook over the years

that were in line with my final goal,
but would have made me appreciate the

daily operation a lot better, you know?

And so, so I, I kind of, I kind of
feel like I spent so many years working

as hard as I possibly could to get
somewhere that I missed those years.

If that makes any sense.

It's a hell of a lot of sense.

And actually, you know, a lot of people
don't know this about me, but when I

was 19 years old, I wanted to be SAS.

I mean, that's, that's what I wanted.

I've, I've read the books.

I've talked to other people who were SAS.

And I figured I, in order to get there,
I need to join the British military

and join the British army, get in,
go through the, uh, the process.

And so I was speaking with a recruiting
officer recruiting office, Not a problem.

You're part of the Commonwealth
Canada, come on over.

We can figure this out.

We can get you in there.

Just save up your money, get a ticket,
come on over, have a bit of money

saved aside because the process takes
a while and you want to be able to,

uh, not be living on the street while
you're waiting for it to go through.

So I did that, uh, 19 years old flew
over to the UK, met up with the, uh,

recruiting office and the fellow I
was talking to had been transferred.

Uh, I met with a woman there who said,
I have no idea why this gentleman

would tell you that you could do it.

He said, I'm sure you can,
but you can't do anything

security related for five years.

I said, okay, whatever, what's
what's security related.

And she says, well, why don't I show
you what he isn't security related?

And it was basically like a
janitor and even some of the

janitorial roles in certain areas
was considered security related.

I said, okay, five years.

Huh?

But I've got a, what was it?

A, um, I think it was a minimum two year,
uh, whatever the minimum engagement was.

I figured, well, I'll give it a shot.

Okay.

Go ahead.

Uh, at my trying to get in with sass.

And she says, well, if you do
this five years, he couldn't even

start training until five years.

And so I, I started weighing it
back and forth as Commonwealth.

I needed an extra year
as my minimum engagement.

And by the time the dust settles, I was
looking at eight years to walk out with

a possibility of trying for SAS and 12.

If I wanted to get some
sort of a trade out of it.

I said, man, and especially
when you're 19 years old,

that's a huge part of your life.

And I, I was just torn.

I was absolutely dejected and
I just, I made the decision.

I, I just, the ADHD, whatever
it is, looking that far ahead,

that just seems too big.

And I didn't want to sacrifice that
many years of my life for something

which so many people, just, just
for a shot at something which so

many people aren't able to achieve.

I used the money I'd saved up.

I traveled around Europe and I
came back and ended up marrying my

girlfriend and having a great family.

And I've spoken with friends who have gone
that route of SF Britta, special forces.

And they said, Trev, you made
the absolute right decision.

So the recruiting officer was
just pouring cold water on you.

Honestly, once you're in the army,
once you're in the British military,

they had used it for whatever
they, they might just say that,

but they'll use you for anything.

And my friends will look back
and they'll look at my family and

what I've been able to achieve.

And they said, honestly, the
decision you made was the one

that, although I valued my time, I
miss out on building that portion.

So when you talk about, does the ends
justify the means, or if there's,

uh, a way to be able to get to
what you actually wanted to do and

not have to sacrifice everything?

Cause some, some things like
high-end, I should imagine TTF too.

I got a story on that as well, but
a JTF too, you don't really have an

option, but to sacrifice certain things,
um, w the miracle mile was that Roger

Bannister, am I remembering this one?

Right.

So back in the day they had, uh, people
said you can't run a mile and under,

I think it was four minutes formula.

Okay.

So four minute mile is
impossible benchmark.

Yeah.

Okay.

Uh, all of a sudden, what was
impossible became possible, and I

believe it was Roger banister, and I
there's a statute here in Vancouver,

another guy, Lenny, Lanny, something,
somebody will tell me I'm sure.

But the year after Roger Bannister
ran that mile, more people ran it.

I think it was like five or six
other people year after that,

there is like 20, some odd.

W everyone runs a mile in under
four minutes because they have a

framework and they know in their
mind that that is a possibility.

I'm wondering if in policing and
high-level work in ERT, if there was

quite often a mindset of you just go
into it, knowing that there's a high

divorce rate for police officers,
and you have to give up everything

and take a hard path in order to
operate as an ear at the ERT level.

Is, has that been the mindset
in the past and is that changing

well?

Um, I think you're absolutely right.

I mean, humans, we put ourselves in boxes.

We're really good at that because
it offers us a certain amount of

control or the appearance of control.

Um, and, and we don't like to be.

We don't like to be out of control and
really we're flying in a universe on

a, on a ball of water, out of control.

We are, we are essentially, nobody
knows what's going on here, you know?

Um, but I, I tend to agree with you.

And I think that the purpose of
the book and the purpose of Sean

and I working together is to bring
precisely that some of the, some of

those, you know, answers to some of
those, I don't know about answers.

Let's call them reflection points
where somebody will read that.

And it's, it made a make a whole bunch
of sense at the time, but it will when

they are faced with that situation.

And when they start self-assessing
what, how they are reacting to a

certain, you know, part of their, um,
professional endeavors, you know, like,

okay, I'm, I'm seeing a pattern here.

That's already been pre-identified.

And I've been told that this, you
know, ABC and D, so that was the

point is to offer the outside the
box perspective so that you can still

pursue what it is that you were after.

And you can get after it, like nobody's
business and go to the top of the

heap or do whatever you want, but
know that, you know, those are some

of the mitigating strategies that
you may employ at various stages.

Can you still have a successful
relationship with a significant other.

And pursue these high level careers.

Yes, yes, yes.

Does that mean that the significant
other is going to have to just accept

the fact that they're no longer
going to receive the same level

of attention because of something
else is going to be occupying that?

Or is there a way to be able to
juggle both of them successfully?

Well,

I'm going to go out on a limb here
and say that in majority of cases,

the relationships that are successful,
um, when people are pursuing, you

know, things at the top of the
heap is often the spouses are very

supportive and it does happen that one.

Puts their own endeavors on a bit
of a back burner, you know, at

times to support the other person.

But that has to be a mutually
agreed upon arrangement.

It has to be something that
the person is okay with.

It has to be something that's
reciprocal at one point or another.

So for example, I could be looking at,
you know, working the next five years

to get onto a team or to get into, um, a
military team or, or, or even an office

job, a corporate ladder climbing the
corporate ladder, whatever the case may

be, but we need to be in this together.

And, and this is what is
anticipated and this is it.

But the problem is, is at times is
we want the next and the next and

the next thing and the next thing.

And we forget that disinter time
we were being supported by somebody

that may have muted their own,
you know, wishes and desires with

respect to the professional endeavor.

And, and if there is a, if there
is, um, uh, a way to have that

agreed upon and the person is
okay with that, that's one thing.

The problem is, is when somebody
is being left behind and then

everything becomes about the person
that's pursuing a certain goal.

So there, there, there has to be give and
take, and there has to be, but you need,

when you enter a life of service, You need
somebody that's supportive, you know, and

that doesn't mean supportive blindly, like
all the way through and forgetting about

themselves, but then inversely, you also
have the responsibility to look back and

say, how much support have I been getting?

And how do I, I don't like to say,
pay it back so to speak, but it is.

I mean, how do I, how do I, you know, how
do I in term of, uh, support the person

that's been supporting me for so long
and whatever and whatever it is that, you

know, sort of makes their heart, you know?

Um, and so, yeah, I, I do
believe it is possible.

I do believe that at some point
there has to be like dependent on

the, it has to swing the other way.

Otherwise we're looking at possible
resentment and we're looking at a

degradation of relationships, those types
of things, it takes a very special person

to be, to be able to say, okay, I'm going
to put myself on the back burner for a

bit while this person is pursuing this.

Higher purpose, so to speak, but

do so in the selection, selection process
for ERT specifically, uh, there's going

to be physical selection, obviously.

Um, there'll be cognitive selection.

I do they look at your personal
relationships to see if you have that

support network when you go home.

Is that part of the selection process?

No, not really.

I mean, it is from a professional
standpoint, but no, it, you're not

getting into, you know, the person, um,
personal, personal affairs, so to speak,

to, to try to see if they have the, and,
and ultimately where's the line, right?

Like who's making that determination.

So say you were to go interview somebody
and you say you come up on a, you

know, a fact that perhaps that person
doesn't have the right support at home.

Like what happens then?

Like, do you enter jacked and you're
in, you interfere with their careers

or really, so it just wouldn't work.

Right.

It's but I think what needs to happen
is to let the candidates and the people

that are seeking those jobs so that they
know, so that they're aware that those

conversations need to happen and that, you
know, it will be very costly and what the

cost could be if, if they don't, you know?

Uh, and so, yeah, I think just pre
pre-loading that information into

the brains of those that are seeking.

To do certain things as critical
and, and that's again, feeds

into the purpose of the book.

So I guess you'd have to be really,
really careful about the way you

preload that information without
creating self-fulfilling biases.

So if you're, for example, pre-loading
information that says, you know, person

can run four and a half minute mile,
but a four minute mile, I don't know.

Right.

Or if it's sort of, and I I've
heard it referenced in the past.

So gunshot wounds, uh, shotgun
wounds can be absolutely devastating

rifle room wounds, lots of power.

But if you're shot with a
handgun, you're more likely to

survive than you are to die.

If you're shot, the statistics would
bear that, um, mind you, they were

finding people that were dying from
wounds that doctors would look at and

say, you know, they probably shouldn't
have died from this thing, but they did.

And, uh, some people have postulated
that perhaps it's because people have

this bang, bang, you're dead mentality.

Oh, I'm shot.

Next step is no, I'm, I'm dying.

And you create this sort of self
fulfilling prophecy or cognitive bias.

Um, do you have to be very careful in
how you release, these are possibilities

that could happen without ingraining?

Well, you know, if you're going
to be tier one, you can expect

to kiss your relationship.

Goodbye.

Yeah.

Well, see.

Yes, and, and that is
not how it's articulated.

Right.

And so, and so that's, that's precisely
how it's not articulated essentially.

So you can be tier one, you can
go to these very places and you

can maintain a relationship.

Those are some of the key things and traps
to avoid, or to, um, see coming so that

you may make the right decisions at the
right time, based on the totality of your

circumstances, not for you to live your
life the way I lived the mine, you know?

And so it's more about having
people, giving people the ability to

recognize the traps that are going
to come along the way and give them,

you know, three to four options.

You don't even need to
give them options, per se.

All you need to do is for them to know
that options are out there, you know?

And so, so their brain and their mindset
is now how do I, and this is how we

should be, we should seek to, to, to reach
excellence in everything, which includes

the way we self-assess our reality.

Right?

And so that's also a part of it.

So having the ability to minimizing
biases and really look at our own

self are at, at oneself, um, in a.

Critical nonjudgmental way, but having
the ability to say, okay, this is where

I'm at, and this is where I'm going.

And this is a trap that I
seem to be falling into here.

I know there is possibilities out
of this that are not warranting me

to break up my relationship or to,
you know, stop the hobby that I love

doing or whatever the case may be.

Um, therefore I will focus
on finding what this path is

going to look like for myself.

When you say self assess your
reality, I thought that was an

interesting choice of words.

What do you mean by that?

What do I mean by your reality?

Yeah, I mean, instead

of the reality, self-assess your reality?

Well, everything is contextual, right?

And so, and this goes in line with
risk assessment, for example, like

a small, tiny, tiny little variable
might change, uh, completely change

the course of action in dealing and
resolving a situation, whether it's

a tactical dilemma or anything else.

And so having the ability to
grab the overall concept, which.

The concept of introspection, the
concept of looking inwards to see the

concept of not being deflecting, the
blame, the concept of not staying in

a box as it pertains to my own life
right now in light of, you know, my

relationship, my job, my, my goals, my
career aspirations and all the, the, I,

I would say, um, the factors that make
it such a complex operation, because

seven might be in front of me telling
me that this is one of the options, but

for me right now, at the moment that
isn't based on this, that, or the other

thing, so it's not, don't get me wrong.

Like it's not a perfect science,
but you know, what's imperfect is go

generations upon generations of Canadian.

Service people going through the same
things, looking back, going, I wish I

could go back to 20 year old me and have
those conversations and just walk away and

not say anything to the next generation.

And the next generation
does the exact same thing.

So don't, you know, there is no
mirror, there's no miracle pill here.

Our goal is not to save
everybody's marriage.

And our goal is not to save.

Everybody's falling, falling in some
of the traps that we fell into and it

inherently, it will happen anyways,
because you'll be warning people and they

will be in denial that this isn't them.

And now they won't appropriate this
information to their own reality.

So they'll end up in the same trap
anyway, but at the very least when

they're reassessing, having falling
in that trap, there'll be like I

was stoled and I didn't listen.

And also he reinforces the point.

So our goal is not to change the world.

Our goal is to provide, uh,
different viewpoints of, of the same.

Um, yeah.

Or I don't want to call it problem,
but just different viewpoints.

And so that the people that are seeking,
you know, excellence in whatever field

of endeavor know that there is a way
to do it without it impacting versus,

you know, you gotta be prepared to,
to just put everything aside and

just focus a hundred percent in.

And, and, and, and yes, there is some
of that, but there is a time for that.

And then there is a time for being a
dad and there is a time for being a

boyfriend in a, in a, in a husband.

And there's a time for the family and,
and the travel and the, the other things.

And, you know, there's, there's,
there's no, there's, there's no way

to make it perfect, but you can make
it perfectly imperfect, you know?

So, you know, you talk about
things like resiliency.

I think it was Dave Grossman.

He wrote the book on killing and on
combat, and he's got a new book coming

out, actually that he's a, I don't know
if we're allowed to talk about it yet,

but it said a couple of Canadian people
have teamed up and are in a joint book.

So I'll just put that teaser out there.

And maybe we can talk
about this at a later time.

Um, But he talks about resiliency in
the form of, uh, people, specifically

people who aren't kind of subject
to PTSD at a, at a later time.

And Dave, Grossman's
a highly kind of he's.

He espouses his faith as
a big backbone for that.

And I, he says that the research has
shown that people who have minimal

to no effects from PTSD are ones
that have a strong sense of faith.

And I'm wondering when we, when you
talk about a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

of what you're a black belt in the
last podcast, he talked about it.

When I, when I brought up the point
and I says like, you know, are we just

learning these things now about how to
deal with, uh, with trauma and PTSD?

And you said, when did we forget it?

This has always been a
part of, of what we do.

W does faith play any aspect into,
um, what you do for your part of

your cognitive resiliencies and faith
doesn't mean having to believe in some

person in a cloud, it could be faith
in, in whatever, but does that play a

part in your cognitive resiliencies?

Yeah, I believe

it does.

I mean, ultimately what it
comes down to is purpose, right.

So when you're looking at faith, for
example, then there's a higher purpose,

which is, and so is it directly
correlated to higher purpose or is it

directly correlated to the specifics
of whatever faith you are following?

Right.

But I would say that.

For my part, spirituality has always
been a big part of my life, whether,

um, you know, the, the, the manmade
sort of religious endeavors are, are

not something that I always was not
only attracted to, but I, I was having

a hard time with some of the concepts.

Right.

And, and, and the reason why I was, is
because there was certain, very evident

biases that were injected over time.

Uh, you know, in some, in some of
the, some of the religious, some of

the religious endeavors, but I would
say that in terms of spirituality

or, or really feeling the sense of
higher purpose, I definitely had that.

And it wasn't higher purpose as
in I'm serving a greater purpose

than the person that works for me.

It wasn't that, but it was
taking the focus off of myself

and going to the collective.

Right.

And that, to me, gave a
strong sense of purpose.

Like the collective is what
I was truly focused on.

What can I bring to the collective?

How can I sacrifice to
protect a collective?

And it gave me such a strong sense
of, um, of purpose and duty that

you there's no question that it
was easier for me to rationalize

some of the emotional injuries.

That I, you know, sustain
as a result of my duties.

And so humans are, and we've
spoken about that before, but

humans are 90% emotions, right?

And so 10% is conscious thoughts.

And the problem with that is that
because it's conscious thoughts,

we think it's the other way around.

And so at the end of the day,
it becomes about controlling our

emotions, not so much, you know,
what our thought processes are.

And so for me, um, I was compassionate.

I was invested, I was all
those things, but you know, not

over-invested and not over-invested
in things that I can't change.

And I would invest my time, energy
and emotions in things that I truly

had influence over, you know, things
that are directly in my sphere

of influence things that I have
a little bit of influence over.

I would, I would invest a little
less emotions thing that are

completely out of my control.

I gave no time to, because you know,
you start, you start spreading yourself

really, really thin, really quickly.

And so I wouldn't say it's a it's, it's
not certainly not a singular approach

to, you know, building resiliency, right.

It's a multi-pronged approach.

So, and that, that was something that
I was thinking about before as well.

When you say spreading thin, you give
a lot, I mean, people who look on your

social media feed, you, there's a lot
of positivity that you convey to others.

Obviously we can't be 100% positive,
100% of the time we need those

ebbs and flows in order for us
to appreciate when it's good.

If we never knew what it
was like when it was bad.

But with that, you're probably going
to find that there are people who will

cling on to you for that positivity.

Do you find that to be draining?

Like there's only so much Seb to
give, to give around how do you,

how do you draw those boundaries
for your own mental health?

Well, one of the things that I, that
I, that I did that really helped me

was to retire because one of the issues
was I had my social media presence,

which isn't substantial by any stretch,
but it was substantial enough and I

was having enough engagement that.

Often receive messages and emails
and calls and have people wanting to

discuss certain things a little bit
more and people that needed help.

And I always did it always.

It didn't really matter who you were.

I always responded and oftentimes I'd
be responding with, you know, some

sort of novel, you know, that I written
because those, the questions were

simple, but the answers were complex.

So I would have to launch
into those, those things.

And I really enjoyed doing that,
but managing my own career and

my family life and everything at
the same time was very difficult.

So when I decided to retire, I made
this, which was a passion for me,

a part of what I was now doing.

And so I started, you know, performance
coaching and I started doing those things.

And so now, and it's, it's been
a big transition because I never

liked to charge people for certain
things and helping people was

always something I'd done for free.

But now I was running into the scenario
where it was becoming overwhelming for me.

Right.

And so.

With my social media, as it stands,
what I tend to do is I tend to, and

there's so much content out there now
with like all the podcasts I've been

on and some of the documentaries, those
types of things, what I've started

doing with people is because humans
will take the path of least resistance.

They know I have 30 podcasts out
and it will ask me, what should

I do to, you know, become this?

Or what should I do if I want to go into
policing or whatever, I'm like, listen,

I got lots of content out there once you
are done reviewing and listening to some

of those, which is a time investment.

And you're not going to get the
instant gratification of getting an

answer today, but you will get the
gratification of knowing you've done

the work and you've researched it.

And now you have the answers
that you are looking for.

And if there's anything left
outstanding, come back to me and

we'll have that conversation.

That's kind of what I had to do to draw
the line because I was getting inundated

with, with this, the same questions
over and over again, the quick fix.

Yeah, for sure.

And you know, this is
not something that's.

This is not something that's,
um, that only people that are

wanting to go somewhere doing
this is what most people do.

So if I was a team leader, when I
was a team leader in a team and the

guys had access to me because my
were cubicles, you know, we're open.

And that, and it was like
an open floor format.

And every time they walked by, they
could ask me a question with respect to

something that they definitely, their
peers would have known about that I

definitely didn't need to be, um, you
know, tapped on the shoulder for that.

So what I used to tell the
guys is like, look, you're,

first of all, ask your peers.

If you don't get the
answer, ask your supervisor.

And if you still don't have it come to me.

Right.

And, and if there is something that
really, it needs to be addressed

right now, evidently come to me.

But if there is a way for you to work out
the information without, so that I can

focus on my administrative task and make
sure that the team is as is running the

way it should, um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
need some help here at boys, you know?

So it re yeah, so it's, it's,
so it's no different and humans,

humans are lazy by nature, right?

Yep.

And we just want, we
just want the quick fix.

So

see, that's something that
I've struggled with because I

can to like, to help people.

And when people ask for help,
I will almost always say.

Yes, not a problem.

How can I help?

I will drop everything that I'm
doing so it can help somebody else.

Because in my mind, if somebody
is taking that step to reach out

and ask for help, well, it must be
something pretty substantial, right?

Because I don't know about you.

All I do know about you.

You're not the type of person to
go out and putting your hand out

and asking for people for help.

I'm not the type of person
to ask people for help.

If someone's asking me for help, I
naturally kind of think that they

must be kind of like me and they must
need some something quite quickly.

And I, a good friend of mine says,
Travis, the problem with people with good

enhances is those with ill intentions will
use those good intentions against them.

And I don't know if people will do that.

Some people will do that.

Intentionally.

Most people don't even
realize that they're doing it.

And being able to draw that line and
say, listen to the podcast, listen to

the, the work that I've put out, take
a look, read some of the stuff I had

that I think that's a brilliant way
to be able to ensure that if someone's

coming to you for help, that they
are putting in the work themselves.

Um, if somebody's listened to all the
podcasts, read your literature, read

your, do you feel they would know, you

know, Not really.

I do think that, um, there is a, there
is there still, there still are a lot

of misconceptions with respect to not
only me, but people like me, you know,

and it's, and it's very interesting.

So I'll, I'll give you a,
I'll give you an example.

Um, let's, let's talk about
Jocko willing, for example.

Right.

And I, and I obviously respect hold
a ton of time for him and everything

he's trailblazed and everything he's
accomplished and amazing leader,

but Jocko who was a Navy seal
commander is often seen as this.

And to a certain extent he's
responsible for that, but he's

often seen as a bad-ass, right?

Like he, he's a bad-ass that gets up
at four 30 in the morning, eats ammo.

And, uh, and, and, you know, and, and, and
so, and so when the younger generations or

the people that are aspiring to be in a,
in a shoes that Jocko was in, for example,

they miss that when he speaks about his
guys, he tears up when he, when he does

certain things like, and so what we have
here is actually, um, Uh, an incredibly

caring human that cared about his people
more than he cared about anything else.

And you see that very evidently.

So what you're now missing is you're
seeing, you know, him working out hard,

him being a black belt in jujitsu,
him doing this, him doing that.

But the reality of what made him
such a great leader is the amount

of care he put in these people.

And so if you were to miss that part, you
are now sort of, you are crafting yourself

into this bad-ass that doesn't have
the balance of the other side of this.

And there's real issues with this
there's real issues with being a

self-discipline hard-ass that doesn't
have the compassionate side that doesn't

have, um, you know, the caring side
that doesn't have that self-awareness,

that self-regulation, that doesn't have.

And so, and, and Joel core course,
isn't going to go out and say, I'm an

emotional person, or I'm a person, or
I'm a person that, you know, loved, you

know, Markley or whoever, you know, past,
um, obviously as a result of war under

his command about man, like, if you are
paying attention, you are seeing that.

And if, and, but that's.

With some steps back.

Right.

But if you're, if you're, if you're
singularly focused on a certain goal

and you're looking at David Goggins and
you're looking at the Jocko Willink, and

you're wanting to be one of them badasses,
you often will miss the other side of

that, which is, you know, the rest of
the stuff that, that I just spoke about.

So for me, I I'll often, and, and again,
I have, you know, tattoos on my hands.

I have this Mohawk, I have this.

And so a part of that itself is self.

Um, and not self-imposed.

But part of that is, is, is, is me
creating a certain image with myself,

you know, not that that image,
isn't a reflection of who I am, but

that image is a part of who I am.

It's not who I am.

Unfortunately, you only seeing what
the eye, what the eye can see, and

you hear a very narrow, um, sort
of, it's a very narrow view on the

inside, on the inner workings of, of
someone, even if you have 30 podcasts.

And as you mentioned before, and I
actually, I, you know, I couldn't agree

more with you is that people tend to
ask the same questions and we, we, we

tend to go to same tangents and we,
we tend to stay in the realm of where

I was an SME, you know, and that's
generally policing, tactical operation

training, those types of things.

So it proliferates the.

The stigma.

Right?

Right.

So my high school grad quote, one
of them, cause I have two different

quotes at two different high schools.

I think in another
podcast that's out there.

People will know, I think
was five high schools.

I went to got into a little bit of
trouble, but, um, one of my high

school grad quotes was by and it
was out of suffering have emerged

the strongest souls, the most massive
characters are seared with scars.

Now for you, there's scars both
physically and non-physical.

And I figured in one area that's easy for
us to talk about the easy things that we

can go through areas where you're in SME.

And we can talk about that.

And maybe we can talk about
the other one as well.

And it's something that I think a lot of
people listening would get value out of.

But let's start with the
easy one you came in here.

I was surprised you're walking in.

I offered to give you a ride
in here because I didn't know

what your mobility was like.

You've suffered a pretty substantial.

Injury.

And did you want to talk about that?

Sure.

Yup.

So on August 25th, 2021, so this
year, um, I was having a minor surgery

done on the left calf compartment
and I was in Toronto, Canada.

And, um, that night I started
experiencing, um, what we now know to

be compression syndrome and, uh, sorry,
compartment compartment syndrome.

Yes.

I stand corrected.

I should know.

Oh, you've got, this goes to show.

Um, and, and so, you know, I fell
a bit of a victim of my ability to

withstand pain because I associated
the pain that I was feeling to the

surgery that I had earlier that day.

But really the pain I was
experiencing was much higher than

what I should have experienced.

I just didn't know.

Right.

So, um, I remained in compression for
over 26 and I, and this is a total

oversimplification of this story.

Cause there is a few calls to the
doctors and a few trips to the

merge and doing all this stuff.

But ultimately what it result
the end result was I was in

compression for 26 hours.

And my, essentially for those that don't
know, uh, compartment syndrome is, and

this is a again an oversimplification,
but it's basically the muscle is.

Swelling to the point where it
outgrows the capacity of the pocket

that it's in, which is the fascia.

Once it happens, it starts restricting
blood flow by constricting the blood

vessels and the nerves and everything.

And if, if there is too much time spent
in compression, a muscle may die from

essentially oxygen starvation, right?

So muscle and nerves can can die.

At which point they become useless
to you and they need, they need to

be removed before they send your body
into a tailspin of, of toxic shock.

So after 26 hours in compression, between
August 26th to October 1st, I had nine

surgeries to, they called them the
bride men, where they remove necrotic

tissue tissues from my left leg, uh,
essentially the totality of my left calf.

Not that I had any
substantial calf before that

joke about it.

Totally.

But, um, but they, you know, they
took whatever I had that my friends

could make fun of and removed,
removed the totality of it, um,

which causes its own set of issues.

But anyways, when I was in Toronto, I
spent 28 days bedridden, uh, You know,

taking opiates and pain medication
that was evidently required at the

time, so that I could heal the issue
that came after was I was sent home

with the same opiates and my pain
level was now a lot lower rate.

And so managing, um, the lack of
tapering as I like to call it,

because I essentially went cold
Turkey was a, you know, a problem.

Um, but so now where it stands now is
the wound is closed since October 1st.

And I have been able to walk and
do certain things like I can do

jujitsu and, you know, not to the
extent that I could before, and I

generally pay for it later, but I can
still engage in a reasonable amount.

But right now where we're at is
January as the reassessing, Nate, as my

tibial nerve was believed to be dead.

And if the tibial nerve returns,
which I believe it has returned, um,

there's kind of two possibilities.

It's either we're going to reconstructive
surgery route, which would mean that

foreseeably I'll be in surgeries
for the next six, say two years.

You know, I probably have another nine,
if not more, to try to rebuild some

functionality in that leg, which is
also an unknown, cause we don't know

what the end result is going to be or
the tibial nerve or the nerves are not.

Sufficiently back.

And a determination is made
that amputating that leg below

the knee is the best option.

I have my thoughts on that.

And, um, and, and the conversation is
obviously a corporate cooperative approach

to problem solving this with the doctors.

It's not just a one-sided affair where
they say, well, we want to keep the leg.

And I say, we want to, you know,
let's take it off or vice versa,

but it's a cooperative approach.

Like what are we looking at?

What is the prospect?

What is, and, and, and really
conduct a risk assessment to see

which one of those two options is
better for me when the time comes.

So that's kind of where
we're at right now.

And, um, I would say that.

The biggest downside right now is
like the ancillary issues that I seem

to have related to the condition.

So that's the neurological, there's
something called a neuropathic

itch, which wants to the central
nervous system is affected deeply.

It may trigger, um, a hive sorta S you
know, feeling as if I, I have to scratch,

you know, scratch myself all the time.

Cause I'm itchy and it gives me shivers.

I'm constantly cold.

And at night I will have night
sweats, you know, and I've had

night sweats for God, like three
and a half months or so every night.

And we are talking about,
you know, multiple changes of

clothes and from the neuropathy.

Yeah.

So we don't know exactly
where it's coming from.

The, the blood levels are all good.

Everything's kind of good to
go, but somehow I still have

all these ancillary issues.

So, um, yeah, so that's been a
challenge, but it is what it is.

So

obviously the physical side, there's
lots of pain that's associated with that.

Uh, there is the interesting side note
about the medication and the opiods that

they, they, they put you on and you said,
you just decided that's it cold Turkey.

I'm off.

Well, what was that like?

Yeah,

it was stupid is that's what it was like.

So, and when I say it was, I'm not
deflecting this to anybody else, like I

was stupid to do with the way I did it and
whether or not help was available for me,

I really try to reach out and add to time.

I will say this in the United
States and in Canada, there was

really nobody responsible for the
transition, from a certain, um,

level of taking pain medication to,
to address, uh, to address pain.

And then through D okay.

To pain is now, you
know, six levels lower.

And how do we take her off?

And there is a science
behind that tapering off.

It's not just the logical linear approach,
you know, like, oh, well, when I felt, say

on a scale from one to 10, with 10 being
the most pain you could feel, if you said,

well, I'm a four and now I'm an, or I was
a four and I took this much medication.

Now I'm a nine, I'm taking
this much medication.

Therefore, if I go back to four, I should
go back to exactly what I was taking,

because it doesn't work like that.

No, you got a hammer.

It doesn't exactly.

So, you know, and so what
we have found is that.

Uh, there is a problem beyond the
pandemic with respect to opiates

and, um, overdosing in the states and
here in Canada, it very, very serious

problem, which also, you know, by virtue
of me doing all the research to try

to, to fix what I knew was fixable.

I also stumbled upon the fact that,
Hey man, like a lot of people that

are on east Hastings or on the
streets today, a lot of them have

been prescribed legally prescribed
opiates to begin with as a result of

a surgery or an injury or whatever.

So it's a terrifying prospect.

And, um, yeah, and so for me, it, it
took time and it took a lot of pushing

the medical professionals along the
way to help me get off the opiates.

And I do not have, uh, an
addictive personality at all.

And I was, are you sure?

Yes.

Somebody who even exercise even pursuit
of excellence, you wouldn't say that would

follow into an predicted with personality.

No,

I, I believe here's
what the difference is.

Okay.

I need to work out every day.

Like I need to work out every day if I
don't, I, I don't, I don't feel right.

Or I don't feel right about myself or it
messes up my day or it, and if I don't

and if I skip it for whatever reason.

I'm disappointed in myself or I
have to make it up or whatever.

I was never like that for me, it
was about, I need to work out.

It's a self sacrifice.

I don't like it.

I don't care for it.

If I don't do it, I couldn't care less.

If you gave me the same level of fitness,
I'd be sitting on the couch somewhere,

reading, doing other things with my time.

I don't know if that makes any sense.

So it was a means to an end.

It wasn't, this must happen.

You know, it was, it was, it,
this must happen, but it must

happen in order to get this done.

Interesting.

So it was, it was more of a
professional responsibility

that I had to train like that.

People always say that to me,
it's like, oh, you love training.

No, I don't give me the same results.

And, and, and let me just hang out.

I will, I will use those,
uh, those many hours spent in

the gym to do something else.

Right.

And just, and, and even if I was even
if, even if there was a certain degree

of addiction in this, the responsibility
of making sure that the people that

are taking these medications in my
opinion, is on the medical world, right?

Like you have a responsibility as,
as medical professionals to not only.

Assist the people with managing their
pain, but also the follow through,

like how do we ensure they don't
end up on the road on the street?

How do we ensure that they
don't end up overdosing?

How do we ensure that they don't end
up affecting their way of life, their

families, their, you know, and so there
is a responsibility and somehow, somehow

for the longest time in the Canadian
system, it was nobody's responsibility.

So there was zero accountability.

And so I was informed that very
recently, uh, Vancouver general

has had a transitional pain clinic
created smart, but we are talking

about how many years have we been
handing out opiates like candies?

Totally.

I mean, it's been, you
know, over 20 years.

So, um, and the amount of people
that are suffering deeply from

opiate addiction is unfathomable.

So there's a, uh, leave.

He's a doctor, at least a professor.

I believe he actually
resides in north Vancouver.

And at some point I, if it's something
the listeners are interested in, I

might just reach out to him, but I, he.

Pioneered a study called rat park.

And I don't know if you've heard of
this one and it's come under fire.

Some people have different ideas on
it, but the end results of it is led

to a more harm reduction and then
people in the downtown east side.

But the essence of it was they were
doing studies on the addictiveness

of different types of narcotics.

And they stuck a rat into a cage with a
water bottle and they lace it with cocaine

or methamphetamines or with opiates.

And they would find within
a few days all there.

And they'd given two different
water bottles, one with water

and one with the drug lake sweat.

And they'd find that this rat more often
than not would go to the drug laced one.

And next thing you know, a few
days later, the rats dead, cause

it just couldn't get enough.

And this individual with some others
postulated, well, hold on a second.

We give diamorphine to our grandmas
when they break their hip and they

come out of the hospital and they're
not ending up down county side.

Why is it that some people find themselves
on this downward spiral will other people.

Don't is it that the drug is so addictive
or is it the environment in which they

were raised in and that they're currently
in and they introduce this drug into it.

And so he said, let's make rat park
and they'll give them a whole bunch of

other rats to play with and other rats
to meet with and wheels to turn on and

all different types of toys and stuff.

And he came back and said, yeah,
there's some rats I would like to party.

And they'd like the drugs, but only a few.

And they weren't doing it to
a point of killing themselves.

But by and large, given their
druthers, these rats would go for

the water over top of the opiates.

So I think when you're talking
about having a proper pain clinic,

holy Crow, is that ever important?

I'm wondering if people have to be
genetically predisposed or cognitively

predisposed in order to be suffering from
addiction from these opiates, or if it's

just the opiates or the drugs, whatever
it might be in and of themselves, it's

enough to, uh, uh, to cause that hook.

I don't know.

Um,

I mean, I don't know, but then we have
to look at is, is the things that we do

know if we're not providing anything.

We're now we're anomic they essentially
making a stance that you're, if you're

addicted, as you were meant to be
addicted, and if you're not addicted,

you're just not, you know, whereas
we have, there is we're providing the

information, what people do with the
information, because ultimately doctor

isn't going to come to your house and
make sure you've taken one instead

of two or that you've you've that you
followed the tapering procedures to

the letter and you are, you know, so
there's always a way, but what do we do?

Do we throw our hands in the air and
say, well, people are just predisposed

to, you know, being addicted to opiates.

And I don't think we can take that at all.

Like it's it's and, and
we do that quite a bit.

We do, I, as humans, I feel like
we're doing that quite a bit.

I feel like this ties right into another
thing that we see a lot of is let's not

explain to people why we do certain things
and I'm referring to in the policing

context, for example, they can be taken
out of policing, but let's have people

have a really strong opinion on something
and we will not go and ahead of the bar

in front of the camera and, and, and
attempt at explaining or articulating

why it is that we made a certain
decision because they will not undertake.

And that's entirely, it isn't

entirely erroneous.

Like people are, are way smarter
than we give them credit for.

Sometimes it takes a, uh, you know, a
little bit of time to kind of process

the information and perhaps it has to be
delivered properly and the person has to

be genuinely credible and have all this
information, um, to offer and, and, and,

and, and answers to some of the rebuttals.

But we do that all the time.

You know, we, we, we
paint people in boxes.

You're either addicted or you're
not, it's not that simple,

you know, when you, and I'm
looking, I mean, Siri's getting

a new police force out here.

I think it's a w what are
your thoughts on that?

Having spent so much time with Vrse and
number two, and we don't have to get it.

Yeah.

It hit the front vehicle and the
tail vehicle, then I'm stuck in

between trying to get off the ex.

Um, no, I mean, it, you know, I, I think
I've made my, my thoughts known on that.

I, you know, I would say that a lot
of the, a lot of the things, those

are not mutually exclusive, so there
is what's being done to, to create,

um, the police service, which is,
you know, who they hired and, and,

and, and, and, and what they're
trying to do with their leadership.

And what they're trying to do with our
model is, is a positive, like, there's

nothing wrong with w w what they're doing.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the way
DRC and P has done business for the last,

however many years that we were in Surrey.

Now, the issue is, is the things
that are now being offered to these

guys in their new capacity are the
things that the RCMP was asking for

so that they made do the job properly.

Right?

So for me, it's sad that we AE, um,
are now telling the current members of

the RCMP, like, evidently you weren't
good enough and you didn't do the

job hard enough and you weren't there
for us or whatever the case may be.

When clearly there was a lot of
areas that were lacking that were

communicated over and over again,
that weren't being resolved.

And now we're setting up the
new police force for success by

giving them all the tools that the
RCMP has been asking for for so

long.

Right.

How's that affect morale

and it's, and it's, it's
a really tough one, right?

It's a really tough one.

I have friends on both sides of
that fence, which I don't think

there is a fence, but you know,
I'm just, um, yeah, they're there.

Like I said, they're not
mutually exclusive, like both.

To a certain extent or are doing the
things right, but there is the, the

political environment and everything as
was changed or the context was changed.

And now you are going to, you're going
to be assessing the results or the

outcome of having implemented a new
police force and say, see, I told you

that this was the right way to go.

What would you have done is given
them what the RCMP was asking for?

And the reason I not to just
completely go off on a tangent.

I'm just wondering, the reason I
brought that in was not tangental.

It was because I'm wondering if
it's got to do with the way that the

RCMP was communicating and had they
communicated things differently.

There's this whole defund, the police
mentality going on in the states.

And the RCMP is a large target, right
in Canada, they're large organization.

And they've been around for a long time.

And consequently, when they're in
their position, they're also kind

of easy for people to throw rocks
out of there at the top of the pole,

too, they're going to make mistakes.

They're going to do things that
are well, but have there been a

different approach in communication?

Had they treated the citizenry as if
they were intelligent or more intelligent

in some areas or maybe less, uh,
informed in other areas and used their.

To publicly inform.

Do you think we'd even
be in this position?

Yeah, it's, it's really hard to tell,
you know, cause it's really hard to

quantify things that weren't right.

Like how do, how do you know how it
would have impacted, but I can tell

you this, um, current RCMP commanding
officer of the division now, Duane

McDonald was, um, an and an AECOM at the
time in Surrey, responsible for Surrey.

And he was out with some solid arguments
and some solid articulation as to

why they were doing certain things.

And, and even when, to the extent
of explaining to the citizen, we've

been asking for those things all
along, just so you understand and, and

providing context, doing all this stuff.

And he did a fantastic job, which was
very unusual for the RCMP for a, such a

high ranking person to go out and do it.

And then evidently he's got the
charisma and he's got everything.

He's an excellent leader.

Um, former it guy, by the way as it hurt.

But, um, but, but yeah, so I, I do
believe that there was an attempt made

in, in communicating those things.

Um, and you know, whether or not
it would have made a difference

if it was at a higher level.

I have no idea.

You know, I'm wondering how much
hands are tied here because at a

political level, it was interesting
was talking with the individual

Nicholas Johnson and he says some.

His idea on public safety.

And he says, you know, public safety
should start from the individual level.

The individual should be able to
take care of themselves and should

be able to take care of their family.

And from there, each individual is able
to protect themselves and consequently,

you achieve public safety, but he says,
we've gone backwards in his opinion where

public safety is now, something that's
been abrogated onto some other body

in this case, policing or the federal
government to turn around and say, we

will provide you your public safety do
not take matters into your own hands.

Do not train yourself in certain ways to
be safe because we will come after you.

Um, I'm wondering if the RCMP situation
who was more or less sort of being

hamstring by the current political
climate of, um, not allowing individuals

to defend themselves or to be, um,
responsible for their own public safety.

I feel like you're specifically
talking about firearms here.

Not

specifically, not this individual was
specifically talking about firearms,

but you know, it can come into, let's
say martial arts, you're, you're

learning self-defense for yourself.

You're learning a system for morality
and some of the martial arts, right.

Um, you're gaining a teamwork
and connection and all of

these different things.

But if you want to go and use
that yourself, you you're going

to have to be very well-schooled
in the legal parameters, right.

That surround that.

So you're not using excessive force
or you're not instigating or doing

things that are, uh, offside, but,
uh, as well, there seems to be a

general, um, a general attitude that's,
uh, portrayed over and over again.

Don't worry.

Just, you know, call up the police.

We'll take care of you.

Call up don't don't take
care of this yourself.

The government will come in and take care
of you and people seem all too willing.

To sit back and say, what's the
government going to do to fix this?

Right?

I mean, you look at an Abbotsford when
the flooding happened and their local

government said the pump stations
were going down, the glocal government

says, don't go there and we're going
to send police out to keep guys away.

This is a dangerous situation.

And as primarily farmers and normal
citizens that came out and said, no,

we're going to take matters into our
own hands and we're going to work.

And there was so many people that
showed up that the fire department

said, well, you're here anyways.

Let's put you to work.

And their efforts abated a disaster.

Um, the, well, me be all before
I go too far off base there.

What are your thoughts on that?

What are your thoughts on people
taking personal responsibility

for their own safety?

And I, is that at odds with where,
um, the current political climate

would, uh, currently stand, like
people are afraid of being sued.

The government wants to try and
do something and say something,

but not really do anything because
if they really put their neck

out there, they might get sued.

Um, I guess that's a slight tie
into what we're talking about.

Yeah.

I

mean, The answer is yes, people are
responsible for their own safety in

terms of situational or an S in terms
of having predicated contingencies and,

and, you know, and implemented some
safety mechanisms in their own lives.

And I have never, in my 20 years in the
RCMP heard the RCMP management or anybody

say, people shouldn't be doing that.

You know?

And so what w w the, the problem and what
makes things a little blurry is that if we

tell them if from a political standpoint,
if we stay, if we tell the population,

okay, you, you ought to do these things.

Then there is an expectations that there
ought to be money for these things that

there

ought to be support for these things.

So, so there's implication
with doing that.

So from a political standpoint, but it's
like, do you need to be told everything?

You know, like, no, I don't, I don't
need to be told everything I don't need.

I don't need to be, I don't need
to be, um, babysit through life

by the government, so to speak.

Right.

And so, and then with that, what comes
next is the deflection, because a

lot of people will not want to take
responsibility for their own safety.

That's somebody else's job.

So that way, when they, it doesn't
go according to plan, there's

somebody else to blame, not me.

Right.

Um, and so.

How do you reconcile that?

Right?

And first of all, what we
need to stop doing is wearing

rose colored glasses, right?

Then we need to have the conversations
and that starts, where does it start?

Does it start in school?

Does it start later?

Does it, is, is, you know, is this, um, is
there, is there a communication strategy

that we can employ to, to remind people,
you know, and, and everything that we

do and we choose to do has potential
ramifications, whether good or bad.

And so, for example, if somebody
was taken martial arts and that the

purpose of them taking the martial
arts is, is that they can defend

themselves, should the need to arise.

Well, then they need to know what
are the limitations of that, of the

ability to defend yourself in this
country, for example, and what are

some of the traps to fall into?

Because it's, it's really easy.

You know, something happens, I feel
threatened and I react a certain way.

The person ends up being
struck with a closed fist.

The person goes to the ground, I stopped
dare disengage, call the police, tell them

to, you know, whatever the case may be.

Or I just add an extra kick in
the head while they're down.

Whoops.

No, exactly right.

So where, where is that line now?

Same things.

Same thing happens again, but this time
the person that's now on the ground was

reaching for something in their waistband.

And I had it an extra kick.

Was that reasonable?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Based on the totality of the
circumstances, I think, uh, you know, a

reasonable person would say, yeah, this,
and there's a lot of the way there as

well, because there's no professional
training in those various, um, you know,

there's no, there was no expectations.

So for example, if a police officer
or off-duty police officer responds a

certain way, there is an expectation,
a professional expected expectations

of how this should be handled.

Whereas a civilian has a
little bit more leeway, right?

And so they don't need to know
law the law nearly as good.

They need to know it.

They need to know where their rights
start and where they end and how

to stay within those boundaries.

But I guess the point I'm making is,
so now if you've, if you've gone to

your martial arts studio and you've
started training yourself and you've

done all this, but you've never looked
at the legal side of things, whose

fault is that don't look around.

Like, you know, don't look around,
there's nobody else to blame.

So we, we have the internet, we have open
source things and information everywhere

and reliable source of information
to boot, not just any information.

And yes, there is information out
there that's but you generally can,

can, can see it really quickly.

You just have to read the comments,
you just have to, you know, and

you'll, you'll, you'll get a sense
too, as to whether or not the source

of the information is reliable.

Right.

And so, and so if we are to take
responsibility for our own wellbeing,

if we were to take responsibility
for our own safety, then we have

to take responsibility for where
are our rights, you know, stopping.

So

where, I guess, where I was
going with this, cause I wanted

to touch on the Siri thing.

And I thought that was a perfect
kind of segue to at least

talk about that generally.

And I wanted to talk with the personal
responsibility part because you're talking

about your leg and your you've got some
options that you have to weigh right now.

Uh, growing up, I had a neighbor
down the block and he he'd throw

pickleball tournaments every year.

And there was prizes that were
given away that were just crazy.

I mean, Carr was one, one year PV.

I mean, it was just nuts and it was this
guy's license plate was a highly drug

atory term for anybody from South Africa.

But nobody over here knew it.

Um, In previous years, this fellow
was in a motorcycle accident and I

forget what bridge he is going over,
but he had his leg ripped off and

a doctor said, your leg is useless.

It won't be able to do anything with it.

You're you're done you're amputated.

And he said, F that, so the thing back
on, I don't care if the thing rots off

me or putting it back on, they did.

And, and result is he's able to play
pickleball and have these tournaments.

Right.

And he walked around with a limp,
but he took personal responsibility

against the wishes of what the
doctors were based on his gut, feeling

more than any medical profession.

If it comes to a point where the doctor
is looking at you and say, it's our

professional opinion that we're going
to have to be looking at amputation,

how are you going to deal with that?

Would you take a similar
approach to this individual?

Or like what what's, what does
that thought process look like?

So far has been the other way around.

They are wanting me to keep it and
I'm telling them, and I'm trying

to convey to them that the level
of functionality that they're

offering, isn't going to work for me.

Okay.

So I'm not keeping this thing
with a 40% functionality.

Like, this is not conducive
to my lifestyle at all.

It's not conducive to me
going out, doing the sprints.

It's not conducive for me to be jumping.

It's not conducive to me, you
know, hiking and doing whatever

I really enjoy doing in life.

Uh, some of the things that are
not necessary, but are the way I

lived my life and I, and I enjoy it.

Um, so what was very apparent to me is
that the way they measured functionality

rate and what's acceptable and what's
not was a different person than me.

Right.

And so, you know, oh, your
leg is, is, is going to look.

It's going to look nice.

You know, it'll be, it'll be, and
eventually down the line, you may

even get, um, implants or whatever
to try to balance your two legs.

And, you know, cause I don't
have, obviously I don't have a

calf muscle in the left side.

So for me it was kind
of the other way around.

Now there's a ton of anecdotal stuff
around like, you know, you can go

to the Panama and get some stem cell
research and you can do this and that.

And if you have 150, excuse me,
$150,000 and all these other things.

Okay.

So at the end of the day, I'm
going to have to make a call and

that call is going to be based on.

Educated guessed and evidence-based
right, because we, we don't know

for sure what's going to happen.

But what I do know is this, if I
send myself into another two years of

reconstructive surgery where opiates
are going to be required, right?

Because we've spoken about the, you know,
the downside of opiates, but let's call

a spade, a spade, don't take him and
go through too much pain and you're not

healing because your body is in fight or
flight and it just simply will not heal.

It just wants to survive.

Right.

So there is applications
for these medications.

There is applicant there, there,
you know, and we can't discount

that, but I'm not really interested
in spending the next two to three

years in reconstructive surgeries.

I'm not right.

And, and that's, you know, if I was
20, it's a completely different story.

But right now at my age, my career,
mostly behind me in terms of like the

career I really was seeking, you know,
is, is kind of behind me and the need

for physicality to the point where
I needed it as behind me as well.

And so for me now it's more
about when can I go to Iceland?

You know?

And, and, and, and you know what I mean?

I know same here, right?

How long do I want to be
on those pain killers?

How long do I want to be going through?

And the surgeries?

I mean, we're talking about
this, you have nine surgeries.

I mean, this is nothing compared to
somebody that was overseas that walked

over a, you know, an IED or whatever.

Um, but you know, it's still
substantial to have, say nine surgeries.

And if you have another nine
that's 18 total and they just

don't happen miraculously in
between there's recovery time.

And then they go back and
then it's, it's, it's, it's an

incredible amount of investment.

It's an incredible amount of pain.

It's an incredible amount
of pain management.

It's an incredible amount of,
you know, is this hardship right?

And, uh, and so the alternative is say,
you go down the amputation route and

you are now looking at, say a 60, 70,
maybe 75% functionality rate over the

course of the next, say, six months, you
are going to be, you know, wearing that

prosthetic, doing, doing things that there
is no way in hell you would have done.

Right.

And so now, you know, people will
talk about Phantom pains and all

these other things while I get that
right now, right at that right now,

I have like the incredible, you
know, the pain that I have in there.

So.

The answer is no, I'm not going to,
I'm not going to keep that limit

all costs, you know, and quite the
other way around, I'm also not in

a rush to get it amputated, and I'm
not making any rash decisions with

respect to it, but it's going to be
an evidence-based risk assessment.

That's conducted to the best of my
abilities with the opinion of medical

professionals taking into account.

And then we're going to go from there.

When I look back at the outcome favorable
or not, I want to go back to the

decision-making process, take the emotions
out of it and say, based on a totality

of circumstances and based on what I
knew at the time, this was the best call

to make it backfired or had worked out.

But you can never be blamed for
making the right call, right?

Is this, it is what it is.

It was a reasonable call at the time.

It didn't work out or it worked out,
but ultimately based on the information

you had, that's always the

call.

That's all you can do.

That's all you can do.

And that's exactly how I look at it.

There's no, there's no, there's no
overwhelming emotional attachment,

you know, there's no, um, yeah,
to just isn't is this interesting?

It's kind of a, it's a process, right?

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah, the.

Lot of different ideas that we
can chat about, but maybe I'll

just leave those for the moment.

Um, you have talked about your
desire and willingness to stand

up for injustice, where you see it
being a very easy decision for you

when you see it in others less.

So when you see it in yourself,
why do you think that would be?

And this is going back
to your last podcast.

Here are your very last
podcasts that you did with.

And I'm going to get in trouble here,

Dave Morrow.

Are you talking about, I believe

it was that one.

Yeah.

That's exactly the, and by the
way, hard to kill, what's the

name of the Steve SEL movie?

We're trying to remember that.

No, no, no, no mark for death.

It was marked for that.

Cause we called it hard to kill
that, but that was a different one.

That was with a wet surface.

Yes.

His former wife.

That's right.

Um, what, what

was her name now with the
worst love scene ever?

Well, it's Steven Seagal.

What do you expect?

Yeah, mark for a death where they
cause they put the tongue on his door.

Sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Wicked movie.

Yeah.

If you were into specifics of golden,
which we obviously are, um, can you

rephrase or reframe that question?

Cause I'm not getting,
I'm not getting the, um,

okay.

So you made the statement that you always
found it easy to stand up for injustice

when you see it happening to other people.

Yeah.

But you CA you let, and I think I got
it in my notes here, but, uh, and I

don't want to misquote you, but you
generally said that you find it difficult

to stand up for injustice when you,
when it's happening to you and you

mentioned it at an early age, so maybe
that was back then and not so much now.

Sure.

Yeah.

That was contextual.

And it was, and it was in
my youth, in your youth.

So basically, and this was
specifically attribute it to my

ability to, to physically do.

Myself or others.

So, okay.

So basically I would stand up for bullying
when other people were being bullied and

B be prepared to sustain physical harm
in interfering with the bullying process.

But when it happened to me, I just
didn't have it in me to fight it.

So, you know, so it was, it was a strong
sense of responsibility that somehow

took over me almost to an autopilot style
when somebody else was being victimized.

But it didn't kick in when I was.

Does that make sense?

That's

interesting.

And I wonder why, I wonder
what a psychologist would turn

around and say about that.

I think a psychologist has
already taken the day off.

I spend an hour with you
$9,000 and never call me again.

Oh man.

Yeah, no, this was specific to, to
my, to, you know, a weird propensity

that I had of stepping up for helping
everybody else and just not have

the ability to do it for myself.

And, um, which eventually
changed substantially.

Did you, cause you've, you've talked
openly about your mother and what

a great person she was and all the
roles that she played in your life.

Uh, you have talked openly about the lack
of a father figure or a lack of a father.

I should say.

Maybe not, not necessarily
a lack of a father figure.

I think mothers when children are
developing are incredibly, incredibly

important up to a certain age.

After a certain age, the father takes
priority when a child needs the nurturing

and the loving and the, the affection that
is generally attribute it to a mother.

When they get to their teenage years,
a father will teach a boy how to

be a man and it'll teach your girls
what kind of a man is acceptable

and how a man should treat a woman.

Um, did you, did you find somebody
in that role to be able to assist

you in, in your development?

And do you think that the lack of having
the, um, let's say the, the father in your

life, uh, puts you in a position where
you want to stand up for others and you

want to basically be the man for others?

Does VanDamme count

was a reason.

I learned how to do the splits.

You

was the reason why we did a lot of things.

Um, you know, well, it is while
it is important to have a father

figure, um, there's a lot of people
out there with their two parents

and that's still don't have sure.

The perfect picture.

Right?

Sure.

And, um, mum knowing all of this,
you know, doubled down on making

certain things happen that she knew
were going to be shortcomings in

my, uh, sort of, you know, life.

Right.

And, um, whether or not that's affected
me on a subconscious level, I don't know.

But what I do know is the primary
reason why I hated injustice is because

I was always on the wrong end of it,
you know, from a very, very young age.

Um, and, and this could have been
attribute it to a variety of things,

but one of those was Quebec in
the seventies where, and we're

not talking about Montreal here.

We we're talking about the north shore.

You know, the suburbs where it was mostly.

Visible minorities.

And I was clearly different,
but I was also different.

So I was different in different,
you know, in, in kind of in,

in, in, in more ways than one.

And I paid a hefty price
for that difference.

The guy hefty price from a very young age
and it was sustained and it was, it wasn't

just the, it wasn't just the people.

It wasn't just my peers, my
other kids, it was the teachers.

It was, you know, there was
an inherently racist bias.

And trust me, I am not one to pull out
the race card I had never have, but I

can tell you this, that was blatant.

It was, it was blatant.

And it was, you know, the
circumstances were such that, you

know, I'll give you an example.

I'll give, I'll give you, I'll give
you actually two examples, right?

The inherent bias associated
with who I was as an individual,

based on what I look like.

Um, you know, one of them, a little
girl, so it was some little punks

were, you know, teasing and doing what
kids do consistently, which is fine.

And one of them kicked a ball at me
and in an attempt to hit me with it.

Right.

And I, and I raised my knee
and the ball bounced off my.

Into his face.

And so he now goes to the
teacher complaints about me.

The teacher never comes to me.

What happens though is during the
class, she's going to make a point.

And I end up on all four with the
kids beating me, you know, so she

puts me down and she essentially
allows every single one of those

kids to come in and throw a kick in.

Right.

So there was no attempt at trying
to ascertain the facts of what

happened, because despite the fact
that that kid was coming after me,

I still felt bad for hurting him.

I, and so there was really no
attempt at coming to me and

say, Hey, what happened here?

Like, you know, obviously he's
bleeding from his nose, the

ball was returned to his face.

It sounds like you may have kicked it.

What happened?

Well, actually he was trying to
hit me and I just raised my knee

and the knee shield kind of way.

And the ball bounced off
my knee into his face.

It was accidental.

Okay.

So there was no attempt
at doing that instead.

I got a beating, right.

And so fast forward a year or
two later, they ran the first

ever, uh, school Olympics.

And in there was ShotPut
high jumps sprints.

Pull-ups like, whatever.

Right.

And.

I don't know how to.

So anyway, what happens is after
two days of competing, I am now

have won nine out of 10 gold medals
and there's one discipline left.

Okay.

So tender storm comes in the whole bed.

We've already seen a room full of throw
fees and metals and like accolades,

you know, out the ying yang for whoever
are going to win those disciplines.

And the teachers have been all over
the entire week was about those

Olympics, those many Olympians, right.

Or as they call them sure.

Back in Quebec.

But, um, now we're on day tour, three
I've cleaned up, you know, in every

single, uh, sports or, or events.

It starts raining.

There's some thundering, everything,
they shut everything down.

Then they basically say, okay, we're
gonna, we're gonna resume later.

All this stuff.

We never resumed.

We never resumed.

And.

We, they never handed out the prizes.

Like they never handed out the prizes
and they never, you know, there

was never, so it sounds like a very
innocuous things, but it's not, it's

not because here's what happened to me.

I was a champion, right.

I was inherently, I was a champion.

I was born to be one and
I was going to be one.

And the rest of my life was spent
being a runner up because I never truly

believed that I could be the champ.

And it sounds like an overdramatize,
you know, but it isn't, it it's

taken such a toll on me that I always
found myself short of winning and

it affected me in, in other areas.

It affected me in math and it affected
me and other things because I stopped

believing I could, you know, I have
to being cheated and it took me years.

It took me years to realize that, like
this isn't like, you know, at the time

I already knew that, you know, you're
missing up my life, you know, and it

wasn't that then it, and it, and it
wasn't that it did mess up my life, but

it certainly has, um, uh, it's had an

impact.

It did.

I mean, that came, there's a few different
things that I'd love to chat about here.

Cause that makes me
angry when I hear that.

And I guess one thing just sort of
forget about essentially dealing with

that anger because that's something that
you can carry with you for a long time.

Um, but I can empathize in some ways
too, because I was six foot four.

By the time I was in grade
seven with size, I think it

was 13 shoes at that time.

And a towering above
everyone, always a tall kid.

And it was always raised.

Be careful, you don't know your size.

You gotta be, don't just
go half speed, go half.

And, uh, the people who were smaller
were always encouraged, go hard, go hard.

Right?

You gotta, you gotta make up for the
fact that this guy has so much and

you're, it does stick in your psyche,
always feeling like, oh, I gotta be

gentle and never being able to truly
live up to your potential so I can

empathize with some of those things.

But the part that would make me
angry, it's just like the systemic

racism for no, any other reason
how they treat an individual?

How, how do you, how do you
reconcile some of those things?

Cause what happens in your youth
will are things that are slowly

but surely fired into your brain
and by the round 30 years older.

So they make up your personality,
neurons that fire together wire

together, I think is how they put it.

And when everything starts solidifying
up, despite there is neuro-plasticity

research that we can start
rewiring our brains a certain ways.

You're probably, if I'm just guests here
spending a fair bit of your time, rewire.

Sort of what happened in your youth
into an area that in, into a way

that you wanted to fire properly now.

So how do you, how do
you deal with that anger?

And do you find yourself
having to rewire yourself?

Yeah, you know, that's a really
interesting question that I think

Jordan Peterson would be more qualified
to answer, but I will say this, um,

the reason why I was so successful in
my, in both my military and my police

career, and especially in the context
of tactical operation, for example,

is that there is a game that's being
played, that there in that game is

you're not good enough to join us.

You're not right.

And so the worst thing you can do
to me is to say, we expect you to be

good at all, but if you're telling
me you're nothing and you'll never

make it, it's like watch this.

Right.

And so from a, from a, from a performance,
um, from a psychological performance

standpoint, for me being in environments
where I'm consistently being told,

I'm not good enough is where at Excel.

Whereas if, if it's too, if it's, if
it's, if there's a certain expectations

that I'm absolutely going to be the
greatest, then I start, you know,

that's when self doubt would start
to creep in and that kind of stuff.

So what I know happened over the years
is I just channel that anger, like

anger firing in all directions is one
of the worst emotion you can possibly.

And it's the bodyguard of sadness, right?

They're referred to it as
a bodyguard of sadness.

There's a reason for that.

And it's also one that's
really easy to exteriorize.

It's one of the emotions, that's the
easiest to exteriorize, it's also one

of the most damaging one, but also it
has tremendous, um, ability if used, if

channeled properly to use it for fuel.

And that's essentially what I
did is I had a lot of anger.

I had a lot of resentment and, um, and I,
I essentially knew that being successful

in whatever I took on was the best way
to get payback, being that person that

can and will and would get it done.

Uh, and so in my teenage
years at about, I would say.

1718 ish is when it
truly, it truly happened.

And I started being very focused
on where I was going and how I

was going to go about doing that
and using the fuel to essentially,

you know, drive myself forward.

So it was a rechanneling and I
don't know if it just happened

organically or if somehow there was
a trigger, you know, I don't know,

dressing.

So, you know, when people look back,
sometimes they'll look at things that

have happened and that will evoke
emotions of anger or regret, or, uh,

maybe they'll just look at something
and say, Hey, that's a good experience.

I learned from what liquid I've growed to.

They've been able to frame it in the
proximal way, but often I found that,

uh, looking to the past will, if you're
going to feel any regret or remorse,

that's all going to be past based fear.

Fear is in my opinion, enemy completely.

Future-based it's got nothing
to do with your present reality.

It's got everything to do often

doesn't have anything to do with reality.

Totally,

totally.

Right.

Like people are afraid of the dark.

Okay.

Why put the light switch on
and it's, and it's bright out.

I remember as a kid, actually, I was
afraid of the dark and I think a lot of

kids are, and I am, my father was ERT.

He was in charge of them for.

I think it was about seven years
actually, um, for Vancouver.

And so, um, brought out a duffel bag and
I put on the Bella cloud, black makeup and

get all darkened up and learning about,
uh, uh, the principles of camouflage and

shine, gene movement, silhouette shadow,
like all the, uh, the general things.

And he says, okay, now you are the night.

Now you are the darkness and you are what
other things in the dark or afraid of.

Right.

And so just that simple reframe of
the, of the, uh, of the idea, but,

you know, getting back to fear, being
sort of a forward looking thing.

Um, have you found yourself in situations
where you're feeling fear and everyone

does, I think at some point or another,
and how would you deal with that?

Well, it depends.

And the answer is, it depends, right?

Because contextually, it
makes a big difference for me.

So for example, professionally, um,
professionally induced fear where there's

a reasonable fear of harm, say on a, on a
tactical operation, but then there's also

a disconnect because it's a professional
achievement, it's a professional, uh,

you know, so then you can, it makes
it easier to address in that context.

And then you have the fear of say, um,
you know, I have two teenagers, right?

And one of them will be driving next year.

That's terrifying.

It's a terrifying prospect because I
feel like she is a 11 in maturity, you

know, level, and this is no secret.

Like she can listen to
this and she knows it.

Well, that's

your perception.

Of course he clearly isn't, but that's
just the perception that we have because

there always are our babies to us.

And,

and so, and so, you know, I would
say those are our two different

two different things, right.

And the way, the way I dealt with
a fear and I, and I don't recall

like being, you know, overly
fearful in the professional realm.

Um, mainly because we maintain
tactical advantage, we've maintained,

you know, there's a variety of
things that we can do to address

the issues that could potentially
make that fear become a reality.

And the team helps with that.

That's right.

That's

right.

And then when it was on an individual
basis, I had been where I had been,

I'd been at bounce surgery in the
biker war, in Iraq machine that hell's

angels I've, you know, there's a ton.

So my sort of threshold for fear was quite
high and very rarely do we encounter that.

So it wasn't a big issue.

Um, On, uh, on the personal side,
I mean, it's no different right

now with my daughters and my
daughter getting her license next

year and it is a part of life.

And it's just about letting go, that's it.

There is nothing else.

There is nothing else I'm going to do.

I'm going to have the
conversations with her.

I'm going to have to, um,
you know, I, I know there are

advanced driver courses out there.

I want her to have that.

I want her to have defensive driving.

Once she's had some time on the road, you
know, also to provide her with the tools

to mitigate the risk, not to eliminate
the risk, because there's always a risk.

If I provide the tools to mitigate the
risk and something happens, something

happens, you know what I mean?

But it's a different story.

If, from my perspective, if I haven't
done everything I could to mitigate the

risk and then something happens now,
now there's the constant going back.

What could have been done?

What could have been done
better to make her safer?

What could have been, you know, so I, it's
almost like fear of being a very emotion.

Um, emotionally based sorta reaction.

Most of the time can be controlled with.

Rational thoughts, which has,
you know, provided that there

are grounded in reality.

So if I know there is a process
to make her that much better at

driving I've will reduce my fear.

It's not good.

It will not eliminate my fear, but it
will reduce it to a manageable level,

which is what we should strive to be.

Right.

And then there's a, there's
a, there's a, an element of,

of luck in everything as well.

And you know, you have to know
that, but the harder you work, the

luckier, you think you seem to get

how that works weird.

Yeah.

So for, for that specifically, and
I'm using this as an example, that's

going to be my way to risk mitigate and
mine manage my fear because otherwise

we know what's going to happen.

I'm going to be overbearing.

I'm going to, you know, and, and, and
you can do, you, you can actually,

um, send somebody in the tailspin
that you're trying to avoid by

creating all this extra pressure.

You know?

So now I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm say
transferring my fear to her by saying

now she's, uh, not a confident driver.

Now.

She is terrified of everything that
moves and now she's focusing on the

wrong things or not, you know, and maybe
she gets in an accident as a result

of having being so overwhelmed by the
fearful emotions that I transmitted

over, you know, and again, there's much
people that are much smarter than me.

That could definitely pick that apart.

But for me, that's the
way that I mitigate fear.

In most scenarios, you realize

you just provided her with a perfect out
for her, for facts, that's your fault.

And then of course it is.

She also knows about the
flection to so be taking blaming

smart kids, smart kid.

Yeah.

You are transitioning.

You're transitioning from a position
within law enforcement at a high level.

And maybe you're looking back and
said, I should have got my surgery

while I was still on the job.

But, um, there's a transition
process now back into civilian life.

Um, I know some people seem to be
able to do that rather gracefully.

Some people have a very difficult
time in my observations.

It's usually not something that they
find difficult right off the get go.

The first difficult part is like,
what am I going to do with all my

time then it's how do I organize
my time in a productive way?

Because it feels like I have just
so many things to do all the time.

Now, when I previously
that was well organized.

And then I see the transition going
towards, um, people wearing all

their police shirts and police stuff.

So they can advertise to people that
they were at one point law enforcement,

because there may be missing that level
of, uh, What that brought to them.

And you know, one of my, uh,
one of my friends he's been

retired for some time now.

And, uh, he says one of the most
difficult things that he's fighting

as he gets older, as he does, he
doesn't feel dangerous anymore.

And it sounds weird.

It sounds like, ah, who cares to a lot
of people, but to somebody who spent

his lifetime and in his profession,
feeling dangerous and feeling capable

control of all these situations.

Uh, that's a, that's a
difficult thing to square.

You are now transitioning from law
enforcement, you're transitioning into

civilian life and your fast tracking
some of these things by some of the,

uh, physical issues that you're, you're
working with right now and working

through, how are you finding that?

Yeah, so, you know, one of the,
one of the issues that seem to play

the policing in the military world
is letting the job define you.

And I have never done that.

However, how much, how much I, you
know, however much I loved the job.

I never let it define me.

And I did that by engaging
in outside activities.

I did that.

Um, having friends that were not cops, I
did that by finding a sense of purpose and

in various other things like the gym, for
example, when I was, when I was owning two

CrossFit gyms and I was actually a coach
there and I was teaching my athletes and

then the other side, when my martial arts
studio and with jujitsu and everything.

So I had all this infrastructure around
me and so policing and being, uh, on

ERT or being a teammate or being a
Sergeant major or whatever the case

may be was simply a part of who I was.

But it wasn't who I was, if it is
who you are, when you are no longer,

we're having some serious issues.

One of the things that I was on a
course in a week with a certain special

operation unit, and one of the key
problems that kept on resurfacing was

when members go overseas and there are
these special operator type, like, you

know, super studs and, and, and super
humans really, um, would, would get,

say blown up or something would happen.

Then they would come back and all, as
they, they had was this defining, you

know, mission set and does define.

Job the date that they had, and now
they're finding themselves, you know,

um, sounds purpose and with, and it's
not the case, but that was the perception

and how difficult those situations were.

We've seen it on the RCMP side
where people retire after 33,

34, 35 years and die within one.

Right?

Because, because now all of a sudden
it's all, all of this has gone.

So there is, there is quite a few traps,
which is again, part of the book and

you know, that to avoid, to avoid going
down the path of letting your job define

you now with that is a sense of reality.

Are you dangerous though?

Are you, you know what I mean?

Because arguably it depends,

right?

It depends on how you define dangerous.

What does that, what does that even mean?

Right.

Because if I stand in a lineup at
the bank as a BJJ black belt and I

look around and there's eight people.

There's a good chance, you know,
I'm the person in there, there is a

good chance that could, that could
potentially inflict harm on others.

Guess what?

Every street corner is somebody that
can, and you you're you're you're behind.

Right.

And then a, we want to
talk about gun fighting.

Sure.

Let's let's talk about this.

Would you, would you bet, you know,
would you, would you gamble your next

gunfight as thinking that you are the
best shooter you've ever met ever?

Do you know what I mean?

And so, and so there is an
overinflation, there is a propensity

to overinflate one's capabilities.

So let's take the same scenario.

I'm standing in the lineup in the
bank, and now there's a, there's a,

you know, pro MMA fighters with like
45 fights and all this good stuff.

Like all of a sudden my, my so-called
toughness just taken a back seat.

Right?

Cause now I have somebody in there
that's actually paid to fight.

That's their job to be that much better.

And it's not to say that
there is no way I can win.

But the point I'm making is part of
define letting a job to find you as

the, over in the overinflation of the
importance of you within the context of

that operation, you know, it's not true.

It's not like when said love was left.

The outfit, people can say, oh,
you know, it was a great loss

and all this stuff, those are.

Human interpersonal connections,
but in the big scheme of things,

the machine keeps turning.

It just does.

Right.

And, and so I can't stand there
and overinflate my importance.

So the importance that the organization,
inversely, overinflate, the importance

that the organization had for me, right.

That stuff it's hard to do.

It is.

Um, so you left after 20 years, you
felt like you've done your thing.

You could've got a better pension if you
wanted to keep plugging away and going

through for another 10 years, but you
left for a reason, what was that reason?

What I left for a variety of reasons.

But the primary reason was that
my, I joined the RCMP to be on

the emergency response team.

That was my sole purpose in life in
terms of professional purpose in life.

I that's what I wanted the most.

I had been there and I was given an
opportunity to return there after my

stint, as a Sergeant major, basically as
a operational noncommissioned officer.

So I would, I would went back there as
the team leader for the team leaders.

Okay.

And so I'd taken the job I'd
said yes to it and everything.

And every morning I started waking up.

Or having a hard time sleeping.

I was, I, you know, and some, yes
seems, seems to, and I've been

an insomniac most of my career,
but, um, but it made things worse.

And then I had to come to the realization,
looking at myself in the mirror that

perhaps you don't want to go back.

Is that a possibility?

And I had to ask myself
the tough question.

And then I started thinking
it's been two years.

I haven't been on called I
haven't been dragged out of bed.

My stress level is incredibly manageable.

I haven't, I don't have to deal with, you
know, tactical operation, the resolving of

same and, you know, uh, HR related issues
with, and it's not with our personal

PR proper, but just the administration
of such a, a high-speed team.

And so w what happened was I, I was
honest with myself and I, I said to

myself, I don't think you want to go back.

And I don't think you should go
back if you don't want to go back,

because I know that you are going to
have to give your life to the team

again, in order to make that happen.

You know, so I knew there was,
there was going to be a ton of

sacrifice of the things that.

I was now connected with, after being
off the on-call off, getting pulled out

of all the events with the family and,
you know, the dance recitals and the

birthdays and this and that and the other,
which I missed a ton of along the way.

So I came to a realization
that I didn't want to go back.

So now what if I don't want to go back?

And that's the only reason why
I was here in the first place.

Now, what I either found
a new passion within the

organization, or I go elsewhere.

And what ended up contributing
to me going that way was that I

started wanting to pursue meaningful
things with meaningful people.

And that's what I, you know, that's
kind of my, and I don't like to call

them buzzwords, but that's my buzzwords
right now, meaningful things with

meaningful people is what I'm after.

And so I really wanted to take my
skillset, my acquired skillset,

profession, professional skillset,
and, and transpose it to the civilian

world while taken on the things
that I truly wanted to take on.

And being, you know, this basically
using passion and, and, and judgment.

To get the things that I really wanted
to get engaged with done rather than

doing 90% things that I had to do.

And 10% things that I wanted to do.

Yeah.

That's a, well, you're definitely
making those strides really quickly.

I was climbing in Squamish with a
friend of mine and he brought another

friend of his, um, and buddy of mine.

He's been on the podcast before and
was his buddy, uh, his ex JTF deal.

And he said, you know, I th that's
all I figured I wanted to do.

And so I worked for, I worked
hard for God onto JTF too.

And I looked around and these
people weren't like me and

I didn't feel like I fit in.

And I, I withdrew myself after
all of that work that I put on.

It was on there for a while.

He says, you know, just some of
the things where he was in his head

a lot, from what I gather, he was
thinking a lot, they said, go in

this room, shoot all these targets.

Right.

And of course, some of the targets are
ones that are made to look in a sense.

And, um, he comes and
he's like, I, I get it.

I get the process of going in follow
orders, shoot, and go through.

But I mean, there's a target of a, um,
the mother with a child or there's an,

and I, I would articulate afterwards why
I didn't shoot, but that wasn't part of

this particular drill that we were doing.

Um, So he withdrew himself because he
didn't figure that it didn't turn out to

be exactly what he was hoping it would be.

Did you find when you got yourself
on with ERT, did it live up to the

expectations of what you were hoping it
would be, or were there differences in

there that you weren't even expecting

without launching into, you
know, um, what was said?

I will say it is, there is nobody walking
around of any organization after either

leaving it or being asked to leave it,

that paints pictures of the
issue being themselves, you know?

And so I, I'm not suggesting
that it's, I'm not suggesting

that it's the case here.

Oh, it's

a

hundred percent but case here, but is
generally, is generally when people

are leaving or when people are asked to
leave a certain unit or decide to leave

a certain unit, there is an inherent,
something was off with the unit and,

and, and, and I just didn't jive with
it, or somebody did this or how I was

wrong by this person at that person.

So I would love for in a case
like this, what I like to do is I

would love to have the version of.

The instructors that were watching
and what the drill was, and they know

like, what were the circumstances?

Right.

You know, because you can build a
drill as, you know, you can, you can

build a drill and make it that it's a
completely different, like the decisions

that you were going to make inside
that room are based upon the context

and the totality of the circumstances.

Right?

So in 99.9, nine, 9% of the time
shooting that mother with the

kid is completely unacceptable.

Right.

It leaves the 0.09%, where
information is given that changes

that, that wasn't a kid
who was naive or whatever.

Right.

Exactly.

Or that she was rigged.

Right.

Even with a kid.

Right.

And so, um, I would love to, you know,
I would love to kind of dive into it

and get the two sides because there's
generally one side the other end and the

truth, somewhere in the middle where he

openly says it is what
it is, but it wasn't him.

And he was the one that didn't fit in
that piece of the equation, because

sure.

But what I don't like about that, what I
don't like about that statement is that

it implies that everybody in that room was
cool with shooting a kid in a FENa mum.

And

that that's, that's a good point.

And that I don't believe in, I
don't, I don't, I don't believe so.

There's so there's something missing.

Right.

And, um, and w w w whatever that
might be it's it's because people

that are not familiar with the.

Units and the way they operate is very
different from the traditional military in

the idea that people have on world war II.

When you're going to do this,
you're going to do that.

We're talking about intellectual humans
with incredible physical capacity that are

very capable of problem solving and not
only very capable, but they are expected

to problem solve things without the help
of the leaders, you know, and very quick.

Absolutely.

And so for you, for somebody to tell me
that everybody in that room was still

equal with murdering a mom and a child,
it just, there's something that's,

that's completely against the soft, um,

which of course they aren't and
they weren't, and they weren't.

So that's, so that's all I did.

That's the reason why I'm
saying that I w I would

love to hear, I like, I like that
perspective because I find that so often

in everyday life, if someone's going to
break up with somebody else, it's because

the other person was ABC at the time.

And I find it as an employer,
dealing with my coworkers and staff.

When you can see at some point when
somebody comes to a point and it's like,

you know, they're ready for their next
challenge in their life, but they don't

know how to be able to take that step
without trying to demonize something.

Uh it's whatever it's a
customer is, it's the job.

It's whatever it is, because
somehow that it clicks in their

head as an acceptable way, rather
than just saying, you know what?

I had a good time when I was here,
I put my 110% in, um, good, bad

learned, grew time for my next stage.

And that's something that I try very hard
to relay to everybody that I work with.

Hey, when it's time and it's
your time, we will help you 110%.

So you can make that next
step in a successful way.

And in fact, I might even have connections
in the industry or the other areas

that you might be looking to go to.

And that mentality of approaching,
um, leaving an individual and

organization or something else
I think is incredibly healthy.

But I don't think it's shared by
most people, most people like you're

saying, they'll, they'll take the
approach of, well, you know, it's

just me, but it's because of this.

Yeah.

I mean, we see it in the PR and promotions
processes, and we see it in, you know,

who was wronged when and how, and
who was passed for promotion first.

I mean, nobody goes, you know what?

My leadership skills
really needed to work.

I actually.

Nobody wants to follow me.

You know what I mean?

Like I look around, you know, and
because it, because it's hard, right?

It's, it's hard to expose those
shortcomings, but it is necessary.

And having the ability to do so is
so liberating, you know, because,

Hey, you can address the issues.

You can address the issues if,
if the issues are identified.

But also it's kind of really
refreshing to have somebody take

responsibility for their actions.

You know, when you're speaking to
someone and they come out and say,

say, this just wasn't for me, it's
just, it's just this wasn't for me.

And I wasn't the right fit.

And I pulled myself out and I love that.

I had, uh, I had a I've over the
years, I've had so many members come

to me and say, you know, and, and
it's funny because when I walked

by in an office or something, it's
almost like people were drawn to.

That they were going to get in
shape so that it can get to your T.

So it would be like, you
know, all, you know, yeah.

I'm going to get in shape.

And, uh, and, uh, and I'm going to
try out and do, like, you've told me

this 28 times in the last five years,
you're not trying out, not working

out or you're not, you're, you're,
you're just, you're not going to do it.

So why are you wasting your time telling
me, you know, what you, what you are

going to do, because there is a sense
that the, somehow they feel compelled

to tell you what they're going to do
and, and how they're going to do it.

Whereas I met this one guy and he's like,
I would love your job I'm way too lazy.

And I just laughed so hard, you know,
and, and, and good for him, loved it.

I was like,

well, people like to varnish
over their own imperfections,

but like you say, liberating.

Yeah.

Empowering completely, totally taking
that responsibility from a third party.

I left because I left this relationship
because they are a, B and C, well,

you know what, there probably a, B
and C to begin with, and maybe you

overlooked it because of Def right.

Whatever it might be.

And then now you're coming around to it.

You're leaving because you've
made a personal choice.

It's time for you to leave.

Once you're able to take that level of
personal responsibility, all of a sudden

these issues are no longer, you're no
longer affected by external issues.

Everything falls under
your locus of control.

You affect every little
aspect of what you do.

Interesting.

Yeah.

And I mean, it, it bleeds into everything
and, you know, to go back and this is

going to sound like I'm kind of going
backwards, but when we spoke about

the way I felt my me being different
effected me as a youth, for example,

it sent me into this other side of
things where, when people ask me, like,

how did you feel as a, as a visible
minority, as a, you know, half black

person, um, in the organization and how,
uh, you know, what kind of challenges

were you against and everything.

None.

That's how awesome zero, right?

Why?

Because I wasn't, there was no,
it wasn't about what every other

thing could do for me, or for me
to see my own failures as a reason.

Um, as the reason being my color, see,
you know, in the organization or my

skin tone or whatever the case may be,
but it re it reversed the onus on me.

Like what have I, what have I done?

And what have I done to
prevent these things?

And I just wasn't, I was a hard target.

You're going to, you know,
you are going to pick somebody

else if you have a choice.

And so how did you, and it
prevented me from falling into a

trap of like, oh, you know, this.

Racism related, or this was
like pulling the proverbial

race cards, so to speak, right.

Pity party.

Yeah.

And the thing is, is I have people
that have the same skin complexion

as me that have had issues
their entire career everywhere.

They went.

It's like, okay, um, I'm not an
expert, but it is, it is possible.

And it is reasonable that you have
run into one, two or three people that

potentially I never ran into that,
you know, treated you differently

on account of X, Y, and Z everywhere
you went, everybody is racist.

You already issue.

Right.

There is, there is zero
question about it like that.

You know, it's just, it isn't a reality.

So it's kind of like the you're, you're
driving in traffic in the morning and, and

you're listening, you listen to radio and
on the radio, it says something along the

lines of, there's a crazy driver driving
the wrong way on street, whatever you

look up and you see a whole bunch of them.

And you're like, Mara,
there's more than one.

There's more than one it's probably.

Yes.

Yes.

So, so that's a critical piece.

Stop relegating your failure or your
failure to achieve certain things

based on predicated factors, such as
race, gender, those types of things.

Because a lot of the times it
actually had nothing to do with it.

It's not taken away from the fact that
at times it does have to do with it.

Right.

But it's a different mindset, you know, I

a hundred percent follow.

So what's the next steps here for sub
Lavoie and what needs to happen for

you in order to be able to get there?

I see a rock and some
nice three dark here.

Are you going to be on one of their
commercials or watch watching one earlier?

That was fantastic.

Yeah, boys,

what are you guys doing?

You need me in your commercial.

They do.

Um, yeah, you know,
it's, it's, it's funny.

I, um, I had discovered this, this company
out of the UK and, um, to, as I understand

it to SBS guys are special board services.

Guys are owners of that company.

And of course, suffice to say that
they're commercial and there is,

are going to ruin me about that.

But, uh, but they have, you know, when
I, when I encourage a company now, when I

encourage a business or where it has to be
something I truly believe in, and it has

to be something that suits me personally,
you know, um, I may, I may love a nice.

You know, BMW, whatever.

Sure.

But I'm a super snake driver.

I love Shelby's why, because they, because
they're me, you know, and it's, it's, it's

the same with this, with this company.

That's truly, um, I think what you are
seeing is the tier one excellence being

exemplified at every step of the way.

So we are talking about website,
we're talking about a product,

we're talking about packaging,
we're talking about delivery.

We're talking like everything is so dialed
in and it's, you know, it has that special

operation, you know, touch of everything.

They have everything they touch turns into
gold because they have so much of that.

And so much of that comes from their
ability to look inwards and be truly

critical of their own performance,
you know, which is very rare.

And, and having the ability to
do that as allowed them to grow

substantially really, really quickly.

And so, um, I will continue
encourage companies like this,

that fall in line exactly.

With, with the way my mind works, you
know, And the product is it's phenomenal.

It's phenomenal.

So you've got the book coming
out and it's going to be both in

audio format and a written format.

Yeah.

So what we've done with this is, um,
you know, we have recorded a ton of

content and the idea was that following
the book there is going to be, I believe

there is going to be a lot of interest
in finding out how that all came about,

how it unfolded some of the funnies,
you know, behind the conversations.

I mean, cause it wasn't all, you know,
rainbow, sunshine and applesauce.

Excuse me.

In fact, um, just to, to tie this in,
like to tell a funny story, uh, that

wasn't, wasn't so funny at the time
is when we started recording, you

know, I had been on so many podcasts.

I was like, wow, this is going to be easy.

We sit in front of each other, say,
if we're going to address leadership,

I'm going to go out on a, on a rant
and, and you, you were going next.

Then we kind of feed off each other.

That way sounds easy,
but it just didn't work.

It didn't work that way.

We sat in front of the mic.

Our first, like I would say four hours
of recording was utterly useless.

Like we, we, we try to
put things together.

It just wasn't flowing it wasn't.

And, and, and so that first,
the half of that first day.

Abject failure.

Um, and we looked at each other
and I got the sense inside that,

you know, that premature panic, you
know, like, oh shit, this might not

be as easy as I think it's going to
be, and this might not go anywhere.

And then your mind starts
running a train on you.

Which of course I stopped immediately
because I knew what my mind was doing.

This was uncomfortable and we
needed to get through it and we

needed to find a way out of it.

And that was also uncomfortable.

And so I didn't want to do it.

And so what I did is, and what we did
really as a team is we sat down, we

stopped the recording and we said, okay,
how are we going to problem solve this?

And so we had a conversation and
decided to speak about something we

truly, truly wanted to speak about.

Like, it didn't matter if it didn't
fit, if it wasn't the intro, if

it wasn't chronological or any
of that, we just wanted a win.

Right.

And so, and we said, let's go get some.

Come back this afternoon, we knock it
out of the park and we're on our way.

Right?

And so we did, we, we went, I had an app,
Sean had an app, we came back together.

We decided to speak about boom,
this subject, which, which at all,

was not chronological with respect
to where we were in the process,

but we knocked it out of the park,
which built up our confidence.

And then from there we couldn't fail.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

But having the ability to recognize, like,
this is a point here where premature panic

can set in and I can let it consume me
and I could have, you know, and when I

say, if you are somebody like had flew
somebody like a FA a photographer from

Montreal to come over, she's fantastic.

Tanya lamb is her name
amazing photographer.

Um, and she came

and saw her work.

Yeah, it's amazing.

It is.

And so she came over to document
absolutely everything to make sure that

we had a ton of material to follow up.

Once the flood gates are open and
people are wanting the information

instead of, oh man, I wish we did.

Yeah, we did it then.

So it's so we have it's we have audio
video, we have pictures, we have all

kinds of stuff that we can launch
into for the next little while.

But for me as the person that
organized this as the person that

quote unquote led the project.

The feeling of premature panic really
hit me hard to the point where I was

on the verge of like self sabotaging
there, you know, and I caught myself

and I was like, okay, you're going
to shake yourself out of that stupor.

And you are going to go for a nap
and you're going to come back and

you were going to reset the clocks
and that's what's going to happen.

And so we came back, reset
the clock and everything went

well and smooth after that.

That is awesome.

It's amazing how many times people
will not even take that first step

because they can't get their head
wrapped around the rest of the process.

How do I start this business?

How do I write a book?

How do I, I'm not a good author.

I'm not, I'm not going to ABC.

Well, what are you good at?

And how can you use those things
around you to help buttress sad?

I know another friend of mine that
I went to school with him and, uh,

he wrote a book with somebody else.

It was called sociable back
in the day, right when social

media was kind of coming up.

And then he was showing, showing people
how to use social media in order to propel

their businesses in themselves and what it
can be used for and what it can't be used.

And I'm like, what the hell?

You're right.

The book he's like, we just sat and
we talked to a tape recorder, we sent

it over to India, they transcribed it.

And now I'm on the lecture circuit
because I'm able to talk about what I'm

passionate about and what I know about.

And, and those people
who actually are able to.

Their dreams in embark on these endeavors
in the way that yourself and others do.

The more that the older I get and the more
I look at other businesses and people who

are building things, uh, the more I see
that it is basically just the process of

putting one foot in front of the other.

Number one, number two, the ability to
pivot when they need to, uh, three, the

accountability level is being able to
take the, that level of accountability.

It's not the fact that I can't write.

I mean, I can talk in a microphone.

Someone else can transcribe it.

Uh, the pivot thing, I mean,
that's why Instagram is around.

I mean, Instagram started
out as a, what was it called?

Bourbon or something like this.

And it was supposed to be, you could
write down information or take pictures

of restaurants and review few food.

And they quickly pivoted from
that into what they are now into

a multi-million dollar industry.

And then, you know, the ability to
even though pivoting can be very

important, the ability to persevere,
and that is the one area like how

you persevered, you could have easily
given up and said, yeah, forget it.

This sucks.

We can't continue with this because we're
going to have to try something else.

The ability to persevere
and continue plugging away.

What do they say?

The plugging away will we need the
date will be at piker at old part.

Robert Frost.

The ability to continue down
that path is what separates the

successes from the failures.

So many people would give
up at that first step.

And then I saw you and
Sean over, where were you?

You're triggered by ties.

So

we're drinking my ties in
the 80, cause that's a real

tourist destination right now.

It's really hot for tourism.

Yeah.

We, uh, we ended up with Sean and I
ended up going to Haiti, uh, working on a

secure security project there and nothing
super sexy for those that are, you know,

have the words that were mercenaries
and it wasn't what we were doing, but

yeah, w you know, there's a ton of
good work to be done in some of those,

the more challenge areas, and that's
something I'm truly passionate about.

I mean, that's, you know, I'd love
to go to Mali and help problem solve

some of the command and control issues
they have in whatever venue or, or,

you know, whatever the case may be.

Those are truly meaningful endeavors.

You know, being on the ground in Haiti
for four days was a reminder, and

it's not at, you know, ethnocentric.

I'm not trying to be ethnocentric
in my statement here, but

we do have it quite cushy.

And, uh, I think that a
lot of people forget that.

And once you go in a, in a, in a place
where things are very difficult, such

as in Haiti right now at the moment,
um, You know, uh, on a variety of

different fronts, not just human
factors, there's also other factors,

you know, earthquakes and this and that.

Then it's a very, very, um, you
know, it's, it's, uh, it's a very

difficult, um, place to, to, to
live in right now at the moment.

And, um, and they're doing it and, you
know, everybody's up at six o'clock in

the morning, doing things that kids are
going to school at like six 15 or some,

you know, it was just crazy to see.

But, um, but Sean and I, having
the opportunity to go overseas

and help problem solve the issues.

I am all over it, you
know, I am all over it.

If there's anything that needs, that
needs help somewhere that falls within

the sort of the realm of our expertise.

I'm

in what I find really impressive.

Cause I'm talking about the plugging
away and might've been Robert service.

Robert Frost it'll come to me, but
anyways, um, probably Robert service,

uh, the fact that you put your head
towards what it is you want to do,

and then you're filling in the blanks.

This is where I'd like to be.

Here's where I am.

And with that goal in mind,
you're filling in all of those

blanks in order to get there.

You're taking something that you would,
you don't have a roadmap right now to

any of these different things, but you
know what you'd like to see out of your

lifestyle and you're making it happen.

And that is truly inspirational.

I'm really, really looking forward
to your book when it comes.

So maybe I can get an advanced copy.

Yes or no.

You might be in luck for sure.

Um, is there anything else that we should
be talking about before we wrap up?

No.

I mean, thank you very
much for having me back.

Uh, I, uh, you know, really insightful
conversation, both of them really.

I was listening to the other one
this morning and I really enjoyed it.

Um, you know, once the book comes out, I
am, it'd be nice to get Sean and I, you

know, to some airtime so that we can have,
because evidently right now I'm trying

to give some, without giving it all.

Cause I don't want to get the carpet
taken from under us, but once the book

is out and the information is readily
available, we could add a great chat with

another, you know, outstanding human.

Yeah.

A hundred

percent that'll happen.

SAB.

Thanks very much for coming
on this Silvercore Podcast.

Thanks for having me brother.