Breaking Bread With Brick

In this episode of the Reel Talk Fishing Podcast, we sit down with Joe Bricko, successful custom fishing rod builder and National Walleye Tour professional angler. Joe shares his experience competing in professional walleye tournaments and what goes into designing and building high-performance custom fishing rods. We discuss walleye fishing techniques, rod selection, tournament strategy, equipment, and how having the right setup can improve success on the water. Whether you're a tournament angler, weekend fisherman, or fishing gear enthusiast, this conversation delivers valuable insight into custom rods and competitive walleye fishing from an experienced NWT pro.

What is Reel Talk Fishing | With No Limits?

I'm Brian Bashore, Professional walleye angler and owner of The Walleye Guys Guide service. I am here to reel you in with captivating stories, expert tips, and interviews with some of the biggest names in the fishing community. So, sit back, relax, and let the drag scream!

Brian Bashore (00:01.664)
Hey folks, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Real Talk Fishing with No Limits today. Heading over talking to the man, another fellow cold snap pro, Mr. Joe Brico. Joe, what's going on? How's it going? You've been fishing, what's happening?

Joe Bricko (00:14.651)
Hey Brian. Hey, thanks for having me on. yeah, I I have been fishing. we came back from from Green Bay and fished the NWT there and got a couple more to go. But yeah, it's been it's been an interesting summer. Yeah, some struggles, some success, but you know, all in all, just fortunate to to be able to chase the tournament game like you.

Brian Bashore (00:39.64)
Yeah, you know, it's it's living the dream, they say, right? We're all living the dream here. I am living in a camper. It's the hell of a dream. But yeah, we are we are blessed and fortunate to be able to do it as much as we all want to bitch about a tournament when we it doesn't go the way you want it to go, which if you're not on top, that's usually not the way you want it to go. You can be content and happy with a a a good finish sometimes 'cause you just are like, That's all I was on and you know, and it and it worked out and and I'm I'm good with that. Obviously you wanna win. We all wanna win.

Joe Bricko (00:43.123)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Bricko (00:55.41)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (01:10.674)
but Green Bay. I mean shit, you just guys got back from Green Bay and that fish like I I'm bummed I didn't go 'cause I typically suck at Green Bay and just don't catch a ton of fish and it looks like catching a ton of fish was the easy thing.

Joe Bricko (01:22.791)
Yeah, it was it was great. It was it was way better than our our expectations. You know, like all tournament guys, you you look at past standings and you, you know, make some contacts and you you try to you try to gauge, you know, what it's gonna take to be, you know, in that top ten. We always kinda set our sights on that and it's like, well, what do we what do we have to search for, you know, here in practice? And we kind of figured if you could get, you know, mid thirty-five pound range to upper

you know, thirty-eight, thirty-nine, you were gonna be, you know, pretty dangerous. So, you know, we went there with that, you know, expectation and you know, we were doing a bit bet a bit better each day and you know, none of us had been there. The last time I was there was twenty-five years ago and I was helping a guy fish for the PWT, if you can imagine that. That's that's how long ago that was. So it had been twenty five years since I

Brian Bashore (02:10.394)
Really?

Joe Bricko (02:16.434)
you know, was on the water there at Green Bay. So I I literally had nothing to to go off. So we had a we had a cle a clean slate and we just went out fishing and we were you know, we were pretty consistently from day one of practice, you know, catching, you know, seven pounders pretty pretty regularly. We were seeing some eights the day one, we had, you know, a nine and a half and we were like

Boy, either we're we're doing something remarkable or the bite is just is really good. And it just turned out that the bite was was was really good.

Brian Bashore (02:49.154)
Yeah, that thirty five, thirty seven was like eightieth place.

Joe Bricko (02:52.804)
Ye yeah, which you know, some of the some of the heavy hitters of the of the leg guys that, you know, live on it that are always near the top of the standings. Like if you listen to Eric McCoy, you know, a couple of weeks going in, he's like, Yeah, if you can put together two thirty eight pound days, you're gonna be you're gonna be really dangerous. And if you hit forty both, I mean you're you're probably gonna take this thing home. So you know, we were going in with that expectation and then day one I was just a shy

Brian Bashore (02:54.946)
Is ridiculous.

Joe Bricko (03:22.044)
bitch shy of of forty pounds and I was like, my gosh, I was just elated, came in. You know, the old scale was bouncing, you know, forty, thirty-nine, twelve. So I locked in just shy of forty. And I came in early because of the, you know, the slots, obviously you can know you only had one to play with there. You could have six in the live well and you had to wa weigh five. So I came in early and then I was listening to people coming in after me and it was

Forty two, forty four, forty six. And then my teammate who fished in my area came in and I heard I heard Jeff I was trying to get my co situated and I hear forty nine and I was like, my god. So it it was fine finally a good bite. I mean, I I had a real bummer of a day one on on Lake Erie where I got all kind of twisted up with the big wind and had a fuel problem and just had

Brian Bashore (04:06.606)
Yeah, that was

Joe Bricko (04:19.366)
Probably the worst tournament day I've ever had in my twenty-six sum years. So I I came out of the gates just, you know, way, way behind. And then had an okay day two on Erie, but it put me way, way below, below a hundred. I mean, it was it was awful for me. And then Oahe, you know, tough bite, came in there with high expectations, you know, big fish capital of the world. Thought we were gonna live scope fish in the trees, and after I, you know, banged my head on the

on the concrete for three days trying that. I resorted to to trolling and I didn't even come with trolling rods. I own a fishing rod company and ended up borrowing rods. Hey, I need to borrow yeah, I called my Bismarck buddies and I'm like, hey, I need to borrow some rods. They're like, what? So I went back to the roots and put together a trolling, you know, program and actually did okay there. going back to the basics.

Brian Bashore (04:56.846)
Okay, guys, can I borrow some of my rods?

Yeah.

Brian Bashore (05:07.438)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (05:16.592)
I think I was like 41st or 42nd. So I just missed the check, but yeah, so kind of kind of started out a a little bit rough. So kind of back to your question, it was great to finally get on a a good bite at at Green Bay. And due to some work stuff and family commitments, I I ended up having to miss beta knock. So and I hear that was pretty good. Everyone, everyone's bite was fun and better than it's ever been, really.

Brian Bashore (05:18.456)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (05:38.882)
That yeah, that's I'm gonna

Yeah, that was phenomenal. That's and that's the main reason I went to that one was I never been there. Like you hadn't been in Green Bay. And I'm like, I want to go here and chase these, you know, these big fish out here. And it was literally just a few hours into practice. I'm like, Okay, well that that wasn't very hard. I mean, thirty one and a half, twenty nine and a half, thirty inches, twenty seven, twenty eight. I'm like, I does it get better? I don't I can't imagine it getting any better than this. You know, that it's then you don't want to beat those fish up. Then you go find another spot kind of close by and

Joe Bricko (05:59.09)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (06:03.612)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (06:13.068)
And then you just watched them all week. Some slid, you know, up from shallow or out to deeper and and you're just like and then it was kinda windy on some days. You're like, I'm not gonna go out and that crap. There's no reason to when the fish are right here in the bay and this is not kinda anywhere from nine feet to twenty something feet and it was just kind of stupid easy. But it you're like it didn't take long to go. There's no everybody's on this. And then you'd see boats flying in and out. I'm like, All right, you know, you know, then Wednesday before the tournament when you're out driving around

Joe Bricko (06:17.746)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (06:30.502)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (06:42.796)
Got out there pretty early, ran over, made a two casts. Quomp, hooked a big one. I'm like, all right, put the rod away. Went out to a different spot, made our cast, hit a thirty. I went, Okay, they're clear out here too. So then I just drove around with, you know, rods away and your arms crossed and just kind of looking, and here comes Kylie doing the same thing. Here comes Kirk doing the same thing. Nobody's got a rod in their hand. Here's Oyer. Let us have a rod. We're just kind of looking like, Yeah, they're here. I think I was back at the hotel by eleven, washing a boat. Like, let's just

Joe Bricko (07:04.146)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (07:12.012)
I think everybody would been fine if like Monday morning they Hey, we're gonna move the tournament up to the day Everybody like, All right, great, let's go. Let's get this thing started. So yeah, that was that was fun. Having been on a bite like that and it sounds like Green Bay was kind of the same way, so

Joe Bricko (07:16.613)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (07:28.934)
Yeah, yeah, it it was. you know, it was ton, ton of big fish. I mean the average size there is is crazy. Like on Baitanak you had to have those what twenty two inches, right? Or under twenty threes or twenty years.

Brian Bashore (07:41.175)
Under twenty three, yeah. And they the problem was they were all really skinny. They literally just were post spawned is why they're feeding so good. But they were just skinny. And I mean you g if you could find like my first third cast on the first day was a twenty eight, but it was eight plus pounds because it was it was fat. I'm like, yeah, we're but you could coal, right? So that keeps everything going. the smaller ones are kinda healthy, but all those big ones were all kind of skinny. You're looking for the fat ones. But now they're now that now you're in the Green Bay and it's July and they're pretty fat.

Joe Bricko (07:47.197)
sure. Yeah.

Joe Bricko (07:56.818)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (08:00.327)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (08:09.286)
Yeah, they're yeah, they're they're well fed. I would say if it if it would have been that kind of format where you needed under twenty three, that that would have been a pretty big problem. on Green Bay now it's it's really it's it's pretty tough to get fish under

Brian Bashore (08:18.134)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Bricko (08:23.632)
I mean we caught some five pounders, but we probably caught more seven pounders than five pounders. six was kind of, you know, the average type of fish. So it would have been a struggle if it wasn't all big fish. I mean, we would have had to adapt and obviously fish some different areas and do some different stuff, but

Brian Bashore (08:26.774)
Really.

Brian Bashore (08:38.528)
Yeah, you would be down on Geno's Reef or up in the river or something like that, just trying to find eaters.

Joe Bricko (08:43.516)
Some Yeah, some something different. But it it would have been I think it would have been well a bit a bit tougher. I mean it was still with that with that format, I mean you gotta

You gotta really, really have some balls of steel. I mean when you're when you when you when you didn't need to throw seven pounders back, you know, to swing for it on day two, you're just like, What am I actually doing? How could I even do that? It's just it's terrifying, right? And you you do it and you gotta I mean that that's the biggest untold story is everyone looks at the weights. Nobody knows really, unless you were, you know, had the camera boat on the decisions that needed to be made to cash a check in that tournament.

Brian Bashore (08:58.175)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (09:07.64)
You right. But you could see it.

Joe Bricko (09:24.218)
So I threw some sevens back and I thought to myself, I I'm I'm either the dumbest person alive or I've, you know, just made the gamble of my life, you know, and it it it worked out. So but what a what a tough deal. It's such a major variable.

Brian Bashore (09:40.383)
Right. Obviously day two, now the bar's been set, so everybody kinda knows. And so everybody's throwing those sevens back, going, I g I gotta get eight pluses to even make a bump up. You know, then then the bite shuts off and now you're stuck. But it I mean I think Warri said he had one fish and then all of sudden the last thirty minutes went pop, pop, pop, pop just to go throw some in the box. Was it and you'll get that. You'll come in with three or four fish, you'll the guy couldn't catch five. It's like, no, the guy

Joe Bricko (09:50.951)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (09:57.82)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (10:04.325)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (10:09.356)
Got thirty, forty fish today. I just threw them all back because they weren't eight pounders, you know. And at this point, if you're far enough behind, you're like, besides points, you're like, n none of this matters, you know. I mean, a lot of us fish for the win and you come in with three or two or three fish, you're like, 'cause I don't I don't care about points. I'm not going to championship. I'm not your, you know, a local. That's kind of the whole debate on why they well the pros, you know, are frustrated with locals jumping in on these and the format's been changed for next year is

Joe Bricko (10:12.26)
Yep, we'll throw all back. Yep.

Joe Bricko (10:20.934)
Yeah, nothing. Mm-hmm.

Brian Bashore (10:39.148)
These guys have nothing to lose. They're just coming in and like, why? There you go. You know, they're just swinging and that's it. I don't care about points, don't care about nothing else. This is it. You know, and obviously.

Joe Bricko (10:41.264)
Yeah. Yeah, swing it for it.

Joe Bricko (10:48.656)
Yeah. Yeah, they're they're they're fine with they're fine with last, but if they catch lightning in a bottle they're gonna win it. So you know, and it just it comes down to, you know, what you're what you're trying to trying to achieve because I missed I missed my second, you know, or the third tournament there. I was you know, I had no shot at the championship. So I was I was kinda swinging for it. So it gave me you know, it gave me a little more bandwidth to, you know, get a little bit more risky, you know, and I I think that that helped. So

But even at eighty two pounds or whatever I came in with, that's only good for, you know, fifteenth. So it was way, way, way, way up. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (11:18.286)
And does.

Brian Bashore (11:25.432)
Yeah, that's unbelievable. But hey, I mean, I think what Dylan finished pretty good too, and then obviously, you know, your partner Topper freaking won the whole thing, so you guys are on the right spot.

Joe Bricko (11:35.121)
Yeah. Yeah, it was fun fun watching it go down 'cause both days, I mean, the only boat in sight was was him and we weren't even you know, we weren't even in talking, you know, a distance and I mean that's how big that that school was and how much room there was. I mean, how often can you be on a winning program and not having to compete with, you know, another boat. So yeah, it was it was fun. Yeah, it's usually usually how you win.

Brian Bashore (11:57.785)
That's usually how you win. Yep. Yep.

Joe Bricko (12:01.756)
You know, I look back over twenty six years and normally normally you are you are kind of alone. So yeah.

Brian Bashore (12:07.032)
Yep. Twenty six you've been doing this for a long time, Joe. You I think what you and Dylan fished together, didn't you, for a while there on the in the aim stuff and you've been doing a lot of the aim then craw and tell me a little backstory on when you started all this tournament fishing and just in general.

Joe Bricko (12:24.314)
Yeah. So the first walleye tournament I ever fished was was in two thousand. I was still in college and jumped into one in Alexandria, Minnesota, still a longstanding, you know, walleye tournament and you know, it was a two day event, so I kinda hopped right into a a tough one hunter boat field back then and that's where I, you know, I cut my teeth. So from then for the first, you know, fifteen years I just do small, little, you know, local tournaments and

kind of caught the fire that way and then met the Grand Rapids guys, Dylan, Dylan Mackey and Randy Topper and a bunch of guys up there. And we we jumped into the aim as a team. We did that on in twenty sixteen and had a had a lot of success there. Dylan and I have a team of the year. We got multiple runner ups, couple state championships. we've won the boat a few times in the national championship. So we

We kinda did it all there and felt like it was maybe time to time to move on. So that's where we started jumping into some of these NWTs. Last year we fished on Sharp and that was our first NWT and we had we immediately had some success. my my partner Nate, Nate Leiniger, he finished second, Randy was third, and I finished fifth. So we were like, wow, here we go. So fast forward to this year.

Brian Bashore (13:46.69)
Yeah, that was wasn't Yep.

Joe Bricko (13:48.231)
Fast forward to this year and well, it wasn't quite that easy. We went to Erie and we pretty much got our butts whooped and learned a lot about dirty water and big wind and currents and everything else. And and I had fished in I fished in NTC on on Erie. So I felt like I was prepared. But what I wasn't prepared for is you know, a a massive wind and and dirty water and you know, scrambling around and not being able to find anything fishable and kind of losing my

Brian Bashore (13:52.451)
Low.

Joe Bricko (14:17.392)
Losing most of my day and kinda, you know, make I not being able to scramble but still trying to do it. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (14:19.724)
And not being able to scramble around. Right. Yeah, that sucks. Yeah. Tough to go look for and it takes you an hour to go just a few miles up the lake.

Joe Bricko (14:30.34)
Yeah. Yeah. Debateable whether we should even gone that day. But nonetheless, some guys figured it out and they, you know, they they still whacked them. So hats off to those guys. But and then other than that, we always hop in in W C we always do Cass. Graha's a big a big local one. lot of bragging rights there and a really, really fun weigh in process that's in Grand Rapids, Minnesota.

Brian Bashore (14:35.502)
Yeah, no.

Joe Bricko (14:58.244)
they take the ice out of the hockey rink in the summer and that tournament gets to gets to use the the civic or the ice arena there so you you drive the boats in and it's like our little mini version of the the Bassmaster classic and the community rallies around it and there's ton of kids there. Most of the hockey youth teams are are there in attendance 'cause it, you know, supports the cause for them and you get to go on the stage and the hot seat for the top ten and and then they have

a version of the Stanley Cup where you can at your name in there and we've been Dylan and I've been fortunate enough to do that to do that twice and Randy did it this year and put his name on there a fourth time. So he's been on he's been on a hot streak. It's it's always it's it's a hundred and and people are just begging to get in that one. there's a waiting list every single year and it's all you know, no no one gives up that spot.

Brian Bashore (15:40.142)
W how how many boats are in that? How many that's big is it two hundred?

Joe Bricko (15:57.159)
So it's you gotta if you get in, you you wanna you wanna hold your spot.

Brian Bashore (16:02.048)
That's it. I'm coming back. I'm coming back. It looks I've I've watched it for years on Social and talked to Jimmy Bell and some others about it. I'm like, that one just looks like it's well ran. It's done good. It's they make it a big production, a big show. Kinda what everybody keeps asking. They would wish the AWT or whatever would or could do. but it takes these communities to really step up and they're the ones that make those things happen.

Joe Bricko (16:20.678)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (16:26.106)
It it does and and I understand the logistics behind it and you know, I'm a I'm a business owner myself and know that, you know, it it economically it's it's gotta make sense. Yeah, I tell you though, if if every if every walleye tournament could have a way in like Graha does it

There'd be a way, way larger attraction and there'd be way more you know, coverage and probably sponsor opportunities because they they they really they really do it right. I mean, if I wasn't a fisherman and there was something like that, I'd I'd wanna go. I mean, you're coming in, you're throwing candy to kids. I mean, there's a there's a raffle for a boat, they have, you know, a beer truck set up. I mean, it's everything you can imagine. And you're you're indoors. I mean it's

Brian Bashore (16:45.454)
Nope.

Joe Bricko (17:10.788)
It's awesome. It it's kind of the gold standard for what I wish every way in, you know, could be.

Brian Bashore (17:16.92)
Right. It's what I hear a lot of the guys talk about the not even in it was it's P W T Bismarck that they did that, you know, way back in the day. And it's it's the whole if you build it they will come. But it's got it somebody has to do some effort, put the do a little work and then, you know, the money obviously, right? It's gotta make sense. It's gotta take some upfront investment for a season or I mean I think you can I think you can make it happen pretty quick. If you just start even just not even a whole year of it, you just

Joe Bricko (17:23.131)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Bricko (17:28.519)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (17:32.208)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (17:45.068)
kind of show it one or two tournaments and it's gonna snowball and you're gonna you're gonna see results by the end of the season and then next year now you have some numbers and some value proposition to present and get more sponsorship, you know, and dollars like that to make it

Joe Bricko (17:57.041)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I'd I'd love to see

you know, do a pilot with with trying that and get into some communities where you have some kind of, you know, a civic center or something where you could pull something off like this and you can, you know, drive the boats in and do, you know, you wouldn't be able to do it with everybody probably if but if you limited it to, you know, let's say top thirty or or top forty and you know, everyone's got a weigh in, so you'd have to, you know, do something unique there. But I think it'd be a it'd be a huge draw and it would it would it would it would really add to the the viewership.

Yeah.

Brian Bashore (18:31.126)
Well, it makes it you're in business, you got you do the whole sponsor thing, you sponsor people and have sponsors most likely, so you get it. There's not a whole lot of value in some of the NWT stuff 'cause a television show is pretty minimal. I mean it's a thirty minute show, you a two day tournament crammed in thirty you know, twenty two minutes basically, right? and it's a whole lot of stage time. So there's jerseys, now they're doing some live streams, so we got that that's helped considerably and so there's there's that. Everybody

Joe Bricko (18:44.764)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (18:55.846)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (18:59.03)
Some of the better live streams are the ones that everybody's kind of doing themselves. it's a pain in the ass because I tried it and burnt through three GoPros. Every time it did it, they fried for whatever reason. So think thanks to GoPro for sending me all new ones every time, but it still sucked. So I'm like, I don't know. Everything worked fine. I thought it would just fry it. But yeah, to it's you know, you're trying to do some of that yourself. There's just a lot of a cost associated with it, type stuff, but

Joe Bricko (19:13.19)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (19:27.59)
You need a bigger stage, a bigger presence, a drive and makes more sense for that truck wrap, that boat wrap. There's photos here and there and but I I've been saying it for years. If if you want if you want it, you gotta create it yourself. Just you gotta be your you're the best media person you can be is you. That's how you're gonna get it.

Joe Bricko (19:39.719)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (19:43.079)
That's that that's true. Yeah.

And I get to see it on on both sides because I I'm a tournament fisher and I get fishermen. I get to take advantage of, you know, some of the resources that, you know, that that get, you know, brought in with contingency type of cash and you know, I do the ranger cup thing and you know, there's Garmin dollars and all this. But then I also see it on the other side where I, you know, I sponsor individual people and I, you know, sponsor the aim and and some other, you know, tournament circuits and you really I I kinda have to turn my turn my burn.

my business brain off to okay what's you know what's the return on this I spend X you know I gotta make that up you know plus some in this amount of rod sales and if you do that you you you probably won't sponsor you know anything because it just is hard to have it all make sense. You know I I really do it because I

i I want to see these things, you know, succeed. I I love tournament fishing. I want to make sure that the future, you know, is there. So I I feel like I kind of, you know, do my part by, you know, giving up giving up some cash to make sure they're they're successful. So that's really how I look at it. Not everything can be, you know, dollars, dollars and cents within business. sometimes you gotta make, you know, decisions for some different reasons.

Brian Bashore (20:56.408)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (21:02.882)
No, I that's you're spot on. That's the right lens that you have to look at it through. And I've talked to other companies that you know that I work with that sponsor professional anglers or tournament circuits and whatever. I'm like I look at I'm like, there's no way you're selling enough rods, reels, tackle, you know, because of of this tournament individuals that can be different. Some some guys can make the you know, are making the the moving the needle. But on some of the tournaments I'm like, there just isn't there's not a there's no

Joe Bricko (21:28.892)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Bashore (21:33.086)
live stream, there's no T V with it, there's no even a YouTube, there's no there's just no coverage. A couple of Facebook posts isn't gonna cover it. You know, but I'm like, but I get it. Mercury or Nitro, whatever. You're s you're supporting the circuit because it provides a platform for anglers to do what they do. And if you don't have anglers, you don't have anybody to buy your product down the road. Period.

Joe Bricko (21:51.343)
Yeah, it's you know, but the way I look at it, you you have to do something, right? I mean you gotta you have to keep your brand out there. They're they're not always gonna make sense. You can't always quantify them right down with, you know, metrics and say, okay, this investment resulted in X. You know, a lot of it is, you know, what I call locker room talk. And it's guys that see your logo and they, you know, talk about it to other people and you you can't you can't quantify that in you know in in social media analytics.

it's hard to hard to attach your online sales whether or how it came from, but at the end of the day you have to do you have to do something. You you have to keep your your brand alive and you have to promote and you have to do some marketing. So every once in a while you gotta make some investments that you you can't you can't quantify. And if I'm gonna make some investments it's gonna be into the tournament world because I wanna make sure it survives. So yeah.

Brian Bashore (22:45.538)
Yep, always be branding, right? There's there's value to it. But right, y but y you'll see it long term. And I see if a company's still around after a few years, or if if you're becoming profits are better or business is growing each year, like it's not broke, right? Don't fix it. It's working. You can always make s maybe some adjustments, or a new tournament circuit pops out, or there might be new opportunities or you make, you know, maybe bring a little less here, a little or you up things here or there because of whatever. But

Joe Bricko (22:49.35)
Branding is king.

Joe Bricko (23:01.798)
Yeah, it's it's working. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (23:14.23)
There's so much more value. The social media and all that stuff's great. And the podcast, the I do newsletters, YouTube, I mean all those things and and you can validate it all. But you can't put a price. I mean you can and you can't how it used to be done. How many times? I mean, you have it, I have it. Guys come up to you at the gas station when you're filling up your boat, right? They knows you from somewhere. You have no idea who these people are. Or they stop you. I my wife sees it all the time, we're shopping or whatever, somebody's like, Hey, you're that walleye guy and

Joe Bricko (23:35.864)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. Yep.

Brian Bashore (23:44.143)
Like, yeah, you know, or at the boat ramp today or at the bait shop this morning and they stop and ask you questions, but th they see your truck, they see your boat, they're obviously they know who you are, they're watching you on social or they see it at tournaments and they're just they're picking your brain, you know. But I don't have I've been at weigh ins and guys like, Hey, I got that new, you know, I got those reels, those seven reels you talked about, I got it, I love it. You know, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, all right, go ahead and if you could email that to the company and let them know that that'd be great.

that you saw, you know, Brian or Joe talked about this rod or reel and let the owners know. I was like, but they don't do that and that's fine. But like I said, if obviously the branding works, but if you continue to see numbers go where you're where you want then it's working. So and and reinvest in yourself.

Joe Bricko (24:10.79)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Bricko (24:25.958)
Yeah, and that that's exactly that that's where you look at the big picture and you know, I started the Rod Company in twenty fourteen and we've we've been able to, you know, grow every year. So to your point, it's you know, you can't always put your finger on exactly where the returns come from, but you gotta you you gotta make a decision and you you gotta you gotta market somewhere and you know we we place a lot of our bets around, you know, tournament, you know, people. So it's either in you know

promoting with with tournaments through sponsorships or a lot of it's through you know individual you know people and you know the one of my kind of prerequisites when someone comes and wants to be on staff it's always well have you used the rods you wouldn't believe the amount of people that that reach out they're like I want to be on your I wanna be on your staff I can really help you. I'm like fantastic. Okay so what's your what's your favorite rod that you like in our lineup? Well I've had never actually used your product.

Brian Bashore (25:11.274)
trust me, I

Joe Bricko (25:23.13)
And right then and there I'm like, you know, it really wouldn't do my my brand, you know, justice. Like recently you probably, you know, see that I added, you know, Bo Schilling and and Jaden Wendell. Both those guys have been using my rods for years. Just regular customers purchased the rods, having a ton of success. that that's you know, that's a compelling story. You know, because they they they weren't they weren't given product and and they wanted to

Brian Bashore (25:28.418)
No.

Joe Bricko (25:52.209)
You know, they heard about it and they wanted to try it out and they've had success with it. So that's you know, that's a great story. And a lot of guys are are are like that. Ted Takasaki came to me the same way. Long time St. Croix guy, forever, forever and ever. And he's like, Hey, a buddy of mine turned me on to some of your odds. I've been using I'm having some success. I want to turn it up on Winnipeg. I'd like to, you know, work with you on you know, some higher level stuff. So

You know, that's that's really what what we're we're seeking out. You know, high integrity guys that we that have used the product, had success with it and we can grow together.

Brian Bashore (26:29.762)
Yep, that's that's I I completely you wouldn't surprise me if you said you had a hundred guys email you a day and said, I want to be on your pro staff and they've never used your product 'cause I see it and I'm just like, Seriously, man. And I see it not so much on the NWT level, but all these other smaller local circuits and stuff, and everybody's got their jersey and they got all these all these Berkeley and all Rapla and all the stuff on the same jersey. I'm like, not a one of those is a sp your sponsor. Not a single one.

Joe Bricko (26:37.19)
Yeah. yeah.

Yep.

Joe Bricko (26:55.6)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (26:57.634)
Some of those companies do very good job of saying you gotta send in the email that says you can you're approved to wear it. But some of backed off and then some of some of are on a program. Maybe it's a select angular program with Pure Fishing or whatever like that, or it's a it's a discount guide program, but real true sponsorship is is completely different than that. But you also gotta start somewhere. I get that.

Joe Bricko (27:01.842)
Sure. That yeah.

Joe Bricko (27:21.424)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, you gotta you know, you gotta be a little cautious there. So we're still small grassroots business and you know, we need to make sure it's authentic.

Brian Bashore (27:27.075)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (27:32.899)
Yeah, that's man, I should have wrote that down. I had a great thought where we're going with some of those stuff and I lost my mind. But it it's just it's it's a game. I get a lot of questions and and and if I see a new guy like Bo and I've talked to him quite a bit, like, hey, you know, you start doing sponsorship stuff or if you're on the podcast, I'm like, if you need it, just let me know. I will shoot you all the numbers, you know, of your episode or whatever and say so that you have some stuff 'cause you're getting, you know, and I told Jaden the same thing, you guys are starting out

Joe Bricko (27:37.154)
Yes.

Joe Bricko (27:46.844)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (27:54.354)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Bashore (28:01.656)
These are things, you know. I mean, Jaden didn't even know he qualified for the championship. He's like, I still gotta go to Green Bay and win. I'm like, dude, you're in. You just have to show up. I'm like, you won. So you're I'm like, you're it. He's like, really? I'm like, Yeah, man, you're you're in. I'm like, but that that's okay. I mean, I was nineteen, I wouldn't have had a you know, if the good guys are focused on fishing or that's it. Not not the surrounding stuff, but you know as well as I do 'cause we're a little we've been around a little longer. There's a hell of a lot of business involved with this. especially if you're gonna make a career out of it. So

Joe Bricko (28:06.225)
Mm.

Yeah. Just go catch one fish, buddy. Yeah, that

Joe Bricko (28:21.372)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (28:27.74)
Yep. Yeah, my my my teammates and I say it all the time. Those North Dakota, South Dakota kids are are just they're they're built they're built different. And it's it's truly just, you know, good old fashioned, you know, work ethic. You know, from the outside there's so much, you know, hate on live scope and you know, daddy buying a boat. I tell you what, you spend some time with these kids, they're the first ones that they access, they're the last one to leave, and it's that

Brian Bashore (28:47.266)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (28:56.014)
It's that farm mentality that these kids know how to work. And that's you can never replace, you know, work ethic. And that's why they're gonna continue to have success because they they're not afraid to grind sun up, sun down to, you know, put themselves ahead. We added a a kid on our team from, you know, Sioux Falls and Gage Backman. He's the same way. He's he's just an absolute grinder. And they're their workhorses and

You know, and we pride ourselves on on being hard workers and you know, putting in long days. And I tell you, these kids have given us a little little kick in the shorts because they they they work hard. And you know, I'll tell you, as you start to get a little bit older, you notice that becomes a little bit more difficult to grind a twelve hour on the water day if it's super hot or super windy. Come back, get your tackle squared away, make sure your bait's all good to go. You know, by then it could be

ten, eleven, twelve at night and then, you know, be up at, you know, five AM and then grind another fourteen hour, your body hurts a bit. So it's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (29:59.649)
It does. It it's not a old man sport anymore, Arley. It's it's that that's why Beta Dok was kinda nice 'cause I'm like, I don't we're we don't need to burn ourselves out, you know. And I remember it wa it was eerie and we roomed up with Justin Skipper and Randy Homel and I and Justin's I'm like, What are you good at? And he's like, Nah I he he said he kinda likes to take it a little easy so he's not burned out come tournament a day. I'm like, totally makes sense. I get it, you know, and when you're

Joe Bricko (30:12.284)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (30:29.652)
rough and it's windy and you're beating the hell out of yourself, that really takes it even out of you more. But I'm like, but you know as well as well as I do. It's it's a mental game. And if you're physically beat down and worn out, your mentality is gonna go with it. So I mean taking it easy here or there when you can is can pay dividends come tournament time.

Joe Bricko (30:47.778)
it it's it's a balance. I mean you don't wanna be, you know, so worn out that that you can't fish, but it's hard to replace, you know, time on the on the water. We we always say the most important day is always that that final day because everything everything changes. Every tournament guy knows that there could be a winning program on Monday, Tuesday, and then Wednesday you go out and you go, What happened? And you you have to have enough

Brian Bashore (31:12.033)
It's all God.

Joe Bricko (31:13.914)
you know, energy and an endurance to go, okay, everything changed, put everything behind me. It's a one day practice. It's the same for everybody. How much can I condense and how hard can I work within this, you know, six, seven, eight hours that I have on the short day before the rules meeting? And I tell you, we've we've had many, many tournaments where we've put together a whole program scrambling, you know, on the final day because some cold water blew in or

there was just some major, major change. So there's there's always a balance. And then I feel like we've had times where we just absolutely ground ourselves to death. And it's hard to be, you know, mentally sharp enough, you know, come game day because you didn't have, you know, a proper rest or a you know, a day off on a seven day prefish. So it's it's a touchy balance with with preparation and obviously it's it's a mental sport as much as as much as any sport is. So, you know, that's

Brian Bashore (32:11.072)
It is. It there's so more often than not it changes. That's what kinda worried me the made a knock. It was you're a couple hours in and this same thing happened to me at Lake the Woods, our championship there years ago when Takasaki and I traveled together and Brent and Brandy and I got there day before and by ten AM that day I was like, Hey, stop and pick up some of these old scatter wraps, you know, back when we ever we all trolled, trolling the base and I'm like, This is easy. I'm like

Joe Bricko (32:38.534)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Bashore (32:39.118)
And it's one one one rod state, so it's driving me nuts pulling lead around with one pole and I'm putting like two hundred feet of lead out. But I could click it and count to about ten and it'd go thunk, you know, and it's these twenty five to thirty inches. And I'm like, I don't I've never been here, but this seems pretty easy to me, man. So they stopped, grabbed those baits, and then every day we just kind of went and tried to find different stuff, but that pattern held and there was one Max Wadd right there, you know, right next to me, doing the the exact same thing. I'm like, Okay, and and made a knot kind of worked that way, but you're like

Joe Bricko (32:42.938)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Brian Bashore (33:09.708)
This is horrible. I don't want to find this bite. I want to, but I don't want to find it on your first day of practice because you're like, it's this is gonna be gone. This isn't gonna hold. You know, this is

Joe Bricko (33:17.926)
Yeah, it's it's it's terrifying to go out on day one and have it be that good because the season tournament guy's gonna go, it's too good to be true. It's not gonna hold for seven or eight days. When is the bottom gonna get pulled out? I hope I got two days to figure it out and it's not on the final day. So, but I mean that's those are all the on told stories behind tournament success. Everyone just looks at the weight and they look at how people did on that day, but just had a good conversation with a long standing tournament.

Brian Bashore (33:32.066)
Yep. Yep.

Joe Bricko (33:47.495)
you know, buddy of mine, Joe Okada. And it's like, you know, the the the real story that that needs to be told or or the series that needs to be told is, you know, what are all the sacrifices that, you know, maybe at home? I mean, what are what are the wives doing to cover? For me, I got, you know, I got I got two kids at home. They're involved in all kinds of stuff. And, you know, it's the sacrifice that, you know, what what kind of slack is the is the wife, you know, picking up that allows, you know, you to do this or what kind of time off do you have to get like

I have the rod business, but then I'm also VP of sales at a at a we build gun ranges. So there's there's sacrifices, you know, that that need to be made to to be able to do this because you gotta be you gotta be laser you gotta be laser focused. So all those things that get that get left behind, someone is making a sacrifice or picking up the slack so that you know you you can do it. And that that story is never told. It's like what what did they have to do and and what do they have to endure just to be able to

you know, show up and be able to practice for a number of days.

Brian Bashore (34:49.078)
No, it you're a hundred percent right. I I always try to, you know, thank the wife and I probably never did on stage near remotely enough. None of us do, right? 'Cause you're all caught up in the moments and stuff, but it's like for I mean the advantages some of these young guys have is that they don't they don't have some of those responsibilities. And people are like, Well, they just get to go fishing. I'm like, it good for them that they're getting into a young and take advantage of it. And I've told it to them like someday you're gonna

Joe Bricko (34:53.106)
Okay.

Brian Bashore (35:16.908)
Get married, have kids, whatever, a mortgage you're gonna ha or own account. You're gonna have all these other responsibilities that take you away from up here from being able to focus and it not spend his two or three weeks pre fishing an area or doing whatever it is, you know. you know, Sheilaine's great about it saying, Hey, you know, Sean did and Sab his daughter, they're running a show, Bo and I are here and thank God 'cause none of this happens without you and it's it's a hundred percent right. There's a whole nother story. The mower breaks down, you know, or you got a business. I mean

Joe Bricko (35:28.082)
Exactly. Yep. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (35:44.847)
fortunately guys have partners that allow to do things, but I don't get paid vacation as a fishing guide, which is probably why there's not a lot of fishing guides on the tour because they're like, I d only make money one way and it ain't fishing tournaments. So, you know, it's that's a it's a it's a it's a big hit. And not only I mean, obviously, you know, who's picking up the slack back home, but the the cost, obviously this year I I thought it was it was just getting a little ridiculous the cost of fuel. So

Joe Bricko (36:00.882)
It is.

Joe Bricko (36:10.234)
Yeah, it's you know, it's I just came across this. I think Dusty Minky said it in the Tour Level Gold. He's like, it's a it's a five thousand dollar hand to blackjack. And you you have to, you know, because when you when you boil it down, I keep track of expenses. I mean every every NWT you go to, even if you're conservative and trying, you know, not to eat steak dinners and you know get extravagant.

Brian Bashore (36:35.798)
Right.

Joe Bricko (36:35.878)
You're gonna you're gonna spend, you know, five thousand dollars, you know, and you have four tournaments, so it it's it's a gamble. It's a it's it's a big gamble, but

Brian Bashore (36:48.94)
I did a whole episode that I broke it down and I did it on a whiteboard. Here's your entry fees, here's your fuel, here's your food, here's your lodging. You know, what you're not counting is your time away from work. Now if you got you work somewhere and you got paid vacation and that's built in, good on you. There you go. Now granted right, you're fortunate. I mean, granted, that's the vacation that you don't get to go spend with your family if if you have one. If you're a business owner that doesn't have that or your business still operates with or without you there, awesome. Good, you know, good to go.

Joe Bricko (37:04.102)
Yeah. Be fortunate for that. Yep. Yeah.

That's just it. Yeah.

Joe Bricko (37:18.063)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Bashore (37:19.008)
I have guides and they stay busy, but I don't I don't want to make money off So but they keep customers coming and clients going. So that's, you know, that's good. But you know, and I was right around that mid twenties, but I'd say this year you're probably gonna be pushing closer to, you know, twenty five to thirty just because the fuel was is way higher than what it was anticipated before. And and and if you looked at last year's numbers, numbers were really low. I'm like, you had to finish in the top ten every tournament just to get your tournament expenses back.

Now, if you did that, you would have been the angler of the year and you would have won boat. This year, if you're on the top ten every tournament, you ain't an angler of the year. You better be in the top five. I think this is where Bo's at. So that's that's pretty damn impressive. And the fact that there's a couple three of them that are in there, it's like, good God, you know. A lot of us they're just like, Yeah, we're not in this game anymore. So it's

Joe Bricko (37:52.903)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (37:56.797)
Yeah. Top five. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Bricko (38:06.599)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (38:11.696)
Yeah, and that's that kind of goes, you know, back to what we're talking about sponsorships. You can't always look at those numbers because if you did, you would you would just talk yourself out of it. I mean, for me, I've I've, you know, played sports growing up, played a ton of hockey, kids all play hockey. So I I just got that competitive, you know, drive, you know, within me. So you know, it's just it's something I'm passionate about and

Brian Bashore (38:20.142)
Yeah, yeah.

Joe Bricko (38:36.092)
You know, I always want to be competing in some form of another. It's just what drives me. So if you sit there and break down them numbers like that, you would you would if you're a numbers guy, you would talk yourself out of it. It'd be a it'd be a horrid horrible investment. You know, any financial guy or accountant would be like, J just go buy just go buy crypto, give that a whirl.

Brian Bashore (38:46.072)
You Yeah.

It is it it is horrible. What what are you doing?

Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I look at like, man, I could have had a second home, you know, or vacation home by now or whatever the case is. But yeah, you you do it 'cause you love it. If you're jumping into tournaments 'cause you want to make a living or to make money, you're jumping in the wrong boat. No, the bass world's different, you know, but there's still the you know, the cost of entry to get there. We don't necessarily have a funnel system in the in the walleye world so much, trying to kind of create one now a little bit. I think that some things will change.

And the NWT moving forward with the format change, even though they open it up bigger and whatever, so it may not change a whole lot, but right concept. A little too a little too late, I think, for me anyway, but it'll it'll benefit some people and and be better. But but I I'd hope I like the smaller field concept a little bit 'cause it opened up more sponsorship opportunities if they continue to do things in that way. Now you open it up a little bigger, you still kinda have that somewhat, but

Joe Bricko (39:41.543)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (39:55.129)
We'll see what the production level of of things are out there. And if there's other tournament circuits that, you know, that show up, there's obviously some that were planning on it, kind of didn't pan out, and some of those may show back up. I saw the the classic bass is doing another one of those walleye things and I mean that seems to be, you know, going over well. I looked into them like that's the kind of format I want. Not so much of catching as many as you can, but being the only person in the boat. with a Marshall. I'm like, this that's I don't

Joe Bricko (40:10.128)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Bricko (40:20.551)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (40:23.788)
Nothing against co anglers, but I I don't want a co angler on my boat. I want just me and not have to worry or be responsible for somebody else in or in Green Bay since depend on that person catching three of your f six fish.

Joe Bricko (40:36.186)
Yep, that added to the excitement for sure. So Yep.

Brian Bashore (40:38.854)
Right. I mean you can still hook it and hand the rod off, but it's like, come on. You know, everybody's like, Well, we're gonna do this handing the rod off thing. So but that is what it is. So

Joe Bricko (40:46.362)
Yep. It's a it's it's little little bit of a pain. Yeah. And it's it's a little bit terrifying with with fish that big. It's it's it's one thing when it's you know, your slots, but you know, when you're battling eight, nine pounders and you're watching someone fight those fish, you're just I mean it's it's terrifying. But you know, everyone's in the same boat and you know it I had two great bows and you know they they did great, you know, no fumbles, good good fishermen. So, you know, it it worked out, but it it is a variable that you you can't control.

Brian Bashore (41:04.972)
Everybody's gotta do it.

Joe Bricko (41:16.132)
So I mean love love the format or hate the format. It's a variable that you really can't control. And that's why we, you know, we we love the aim format and we hope that the the NXT thing is gonna is gonna be able to take hold. Cause I like fishing with a partner. I like catching big fish, I like being able to upgrade big fish, but you know, that's that's a bit up in the air. It's it's a little bit unknown.

So I'm I'll be a little bit in in limbo. I mean, my my hope is that the aim with their NXT series can, you know, get some traction and and take hold. I don't know exactly what's gonna happen yet with you know, with the w what version of the NWT rules are are gonna gonna take hold. But right now I'm on I'm outside of that eighty little bit, so it's gonna be up in the air for me.

Brian Bashore (42:05.612)
Yeah, we you and I and Dylan, there's a handful of so I mean we didn't fish four of so you're not gonna be in that eighty, and theoretically you're butt qualified from not fishing all four, but it doesn't matter because they still have ten spots they can just give to whoever they want. However it's kind of written that way. I don't it doesn't matter to me, I ain't gonna fish it regardless. but I think that that's now's the time for NXT, right? It's gonna give some of those people that

Hopefully. I'm sure that's kind of what those that board is thinking, like, all right, maybe now we'll we'll bring some of these guys are gonna come over. But a lot of it's just so up in the air, we gotta see what all what's does this twenty twenty seven NWT look like. Is it a four thousand dollar entry or is it you know, whatever the case is. I was told from them years ago it'll always have a co angler due to a safety issue due to some of the bodies of water we fish. You know, that I'm like, I get it, but now you just have two people at harm's way instead of one. So

Joe Bricko (42:46.78)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (43:03.264)
Okay. But you could have that anywhere. If something happens to you, somebody else gets to drive your boat. I'm like, well, whatever, but you're you're you're referring to the big water, so you're talking about waves and whatever. I don't to me I'm like, now you just put two people around instead of one, but whatever. I don't I don't make those rules.

Joe Bricko (43:04.88)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (43:21.062)
Yeah. Yeah, it's you know, it's an interesting time. So it's gonna be it who who knows what's gonna happen and you know, I I yeah. I I don't see the economics working when you cut it down to eighty when they had what did we have in Oahui hundred and what was it, one sixty? You know, you you would you would have to double, you know, the entry fees and you're gonna put a lot of guys just, you know, out of reach on that. So

Brian Bashore (43:27.918)
Right. We we just don't know, right? Too many unknowns.

Brian Bashore (43:38.986)
One sixty. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (43:49.247)
Yeah. And when you have a smaller field, I mean if you're gonna cut leave the entry fees and have a smaller field, your payout's gonna come down considerably. And it's already even in this year, you still have to you still need to have three top tens to cover the cost of the season. That's just the cost of the fishing. That's not your boat, your insurance, your tackle, your gear, right? So but once again, don't yeah, don't think about it that way, folks, right? Like just don't get into the weeds on it. So it's

Joe Bricko (43:51.227)
Yeah, it's

Joe Bricko (44:04.358)
Yeah. Yeah. But

Yeah. Ever everything else, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (44:17.656)
That yeah, we do it 'cause we love it. We're passionate. We love it. we're thankful that the aim and NWT and MWC and all these circuits are there to give all of us a a place to go. And really it's it's the guys like you that, you know, and Chase and Corey, all these people you get to meet, and it's just they're just a bunch of good dudes, basically. I this the camaraderie's none. It we're still competitive as hell. But I've made a lot of great friends and acquaintances over the years fishing it. And they're just they're just good people. I like had a

Joe Bricko (44:20.615)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (44:46.498)
talk with somebody yesterday, you know, that was like, hey, people are complaining. They think we cheated because we kicked everybody's ass, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, the fishermen are the worst, man. The most jealous, insecure people I ever meet, but yet they're also the best, right? Some of them are just the best guys that'll do anything for you to help you out. if your trolling motor broke at the tournament or the day before, it would take you twenty minutes to find a new one and somebody there to help put.

Joe Bricko (44:58.78)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Bricko (45:09.328)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's so much negativity, you know, highlighted right now because, you know, everybody can see it. It's out there. I mean, that's a downfall of of social media. But you know, at the end of the day, I mean there's the camaraderie amongst, you know, all the anglers. I mean, guys are are so willing to go out of their way to to, you know, to help people out. And I notice that a lot of people, you know, that are, you know, causing a you know, a ruckus or negativity, they weren't actually in the tournament.

You know, it's just it's keyboard warriors. So, you know, the tournament crowd, I mean, the camaraderie is, you know, second to none. That's another thing that, you know, that that keeps me going in this is the the guys are great. I mean, almost everyone you come across, they're just they're like minded people that just, you know, wanna compete and you know, it's you know, it's a competitor on the water, but once you're off the water, you know, everybody's everybody's pretty much a friend. So

Brian Bashore (46:05.334)
Yep. And you got I mean you have travel partners, which are probably turning some of your best friends and damn near like family, 'cause you gotta spend some good and bad days together and go through a lot of ups and downs, right? So it's just lots, lots of up and downs. It's the the loudest out there are not in the tournaments, they're not fishing, they don't know ya, all that negative stuff is the the loudest ones have have absolutely no idea what they're talking about most times.

Joe Bricko (46:11.877)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (46:15.41)
yeah. High up and down, so yep.

Joe Bricko (46:34.962)
True. Yep. It kinda it kinda ruins it, but you take the good with the bad with the social media. So

Brian Bashore (46:35.682)
I say all time, it just Yeah.

Well, you've been doing it for a while. You've seen the evolution of it. We're in the live scope era now and I I th I mean you're seeing it I we saw it a few years ago at Devil's Lake Championship where it brought in massive three day bag of like ninety some pounds and it's like I mean even the locals were like, Holy crap, now you're seeing a green bay, guys are like, you know, beta knock. Like these are fishing. Everybody's doing it and everybody's getting better and getting good. So you're seeing the competitive field kind of outside of a few of the very top

You know, it's there's still a couple of three hammers that are always up there, but there's new names flying up, Randy Topper flying up and winning, you know, that are getting involved and wha what your what are your thoughts? How you feel about it? Do you like it? And I mean I I don't know. It's fun.

Joe Bricko (47:11.708)
Yep. Yep.

Joe Bricko (47:21.698)
yeah, we're seeing a lot more parity. We we were really early adopters with with live scope. We we latched onto it immediately. We we saw that it was it was gonna be the wave of the future and we saw the benefit almost immediately. So we started full time using Live Scope the the year they released that thirty two deucer, which would have been, I believe, looking back twenty

2020. So we're in our sixth, almost seventh year using it. And I'll tell you, when we first started with it, we're like, man, we're gonna have a run with this. We're all very few of us were were in it, and it was easy to be at the top because it was such an advantage. The years click on, you look around, and you're like, everybody has it, everybody's getting proficient.

Brian Bashore (47:55.138)
Right.

Joe Bricko (48:09.436)
You started seeing a lot of a lot of parity and that's that advantage is is you know it's a pretty pretty equal playing field now. I'm always under the mindset that you just you can't stop technology. It's you you just you you can't you can't fight it in every walk of life. Technology's always gonna be there. You're not gonna stop it. You're not gonna create enough rules around it, you have to embrace it. So,

I I I I like it. I mean it it's it's added a lot of excitement to fishing for myself because you get to see how fish react and you get to learn things that you you would you never knew walleyes w would ever do. I mean on Lake Superior we were literally catching fish on the surface. I mean we were we were casting that fish so you could s you could see swirl when they when they came to, you know, chase your bait. They were so high up in the water column. Never in a million years before live would you ever, you know, think that a walleye is gonna be on the surface over

Brian Bashore (49:08.28)
Well, you couldn't you couldn't graph it. You'd spook Yeah.

Joe Bricko (49:08.85)
Twenty five to thirty thirty feet of water. Yeah, you couldn't drive over You're never gonna 2D them, you're never gonna side scan those fish, but there they are. You're catching fish that, you know, if you look hard enough, the fins could be out of the water. I mean, it's it's it's remarkable. So the scary part is where it could go. That's the flip side to this. you know, you fast forward ten, eleven, you know, fifteen, twenty years. So I think at some point, I mean you you will have to, you know, put some put some limitations on.

Brian Bashore (49:27.906)
Right.

Joe Bricko (49:39.075)
on it. you know, which which I'm okay with. You know, it's one deucer, maybe, you know, limit the amount of graphs and you know, that's I'm fine with that, but you're not you're you're not gonna stop technology, no nor nor should you. Because you would have had to go back in time and say, okay, no global maps. I mean, that's still probably a little bit more cutting edge and being able to, you know, roll up to a you know secret hump that only, you know, grandpa knew about for, you know, eighty some years.

Brian Bashore (49:40.738)
But they do it in sports, right?

Brian Bashore (49:52.386)
No. No.

Brian Bashore (49:56.949)
Right.

Joe Bricko (50:08.016)
Now everyone could just Yeah. So yeah. Still still probably more cutting edge. That wasn't stopped. You know, that wasn't restricted. So you just you you can't you can't stop technology.

Brian Bashore (50:08.022)
Right. You gotta line up with the tree in the in the flagpole over there and here it is. Yep.

Brian Bashore (50:22.466)
Nope, nope, you're not gonna stop it. I I mean th there'll be some restrictions, like you said, how far does it go? It's gonna continue to get better and it's gonna like, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, pump the brakes. You you've seen it in baseball, aluminum bass, cough does it with balls. I mean, there's everybody kind of puts a we we still need to keep the human element very involved with this, you know. But technology can get to the point where the human element is driving the boat.

And I mean we're probably gonna have to make the cast, I would assume. Some day you can still buy yourself, but that may be about it. So it is

Joe Bricko (50:55.418)
Yeah, and I think the scarier part of of what I'm, you know, personally seeing in my, you know, twenty six years at this is it's becoming a spending game, which which I which I don't like. Because that that will you'll start to separate a bit by just how well off you are. And I don't like that part of it because now you can just you can spend your way to wins and

That's a little bit of the unfortunate side of of some of these, you know, graphs getting to be, you know, seven, eight thousand dollars and multiple decers that are getting up there twenty five hundred apiece and no limits on horsepower and you're seeing five hundred show up. So that that part of it I I don't like because I I think it should always, you know, be a fair playing field where you don't have to just spend more than the next guy.

Brian Bashore (51:46.862)
And it's gonna keep some really, really good sticks out of it.

Joe Bricko (51:50.586)
Yep, it it is, which which is kind of a little bit sad to see in

Brian Bashore (51:53.199)
You're the you're the right you're the world champ. It's like, no, you're you are 'cause you can afford to be. You know. There's fifty other guys that could probably give you a a a good run for your money, but we just we can't, you know. I'd still running a ninety horse, whatever the case is and you know, and unfortunately those fish are ninety miles away. I mean there's guys that just don't fish tournaments because of that stuff. They're like, no, I can compete and do it, but I I you know, I don't have a boat that's got a fuel capacity to

to go, you know, because they're used to this launch and where they need to launch. But all of a sudden the tournament's over here or it looks like the weather's gonna be crap and they're like, I can't go out and do that stuff. I'm I'm gonna see my my ship's going down. So the NWT's we got a minimum, maximum, you know, requirements on there, but it's it's pretty big. you know.

Joe Bricko (52:34.802)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (52:39.888)
Yeah, yeah. And and I think we've crossed that that threshold already. So, you know, and that that'll only probably probably get get worse. And I get it from the from the business standpoint. You need you know, you need to keep selling to your customer base. You need to, you know, go from four to, you know, five hundred horse motors and go from twenty two foot boats to now adding twenty threes and but, you know, used to be fifty, sixty grand for a tournament rig was

Brian Bashore (52:44.418)
Yeah. Yep.

Joe Bricko (53:08.506)
was getting up there. It was a tough tough thing to swallow. You know, now by the time you deck out in electronics and you're hundred and fifty to a hundred and eighty, I mean ten years from now it's gonna be a quarter million dollars and it's it's gonna be it's gonna become a game about spending the next guy. And you can create an advantage with spending more money with bigger boats and more horsepower and more electronics. And so we we've kind of we've hit that threshold and that's that that I'm a little bit more turned off by than than probably, you know,

Brian Bashore (53:23.5)
Yeah, I bel

Brian Bashore (53:35.368)
I hear ya.

Joe Bricko (53:38.758)
Forward facing sonar.

Brian Bashore (53:40.973)
Yeah, I foreign face center is fun, but I hear you. I I saw the price tag at a support show for that twenty three foot with the five hundred of two hundred and twenty five grand. And I'm like, seriously, all right. I mean, whatever if you got it, knock yourself out. friend here, guy that's got one, and it's a hell of a boat. I mean, if you can you can afford it, that's what you want. It's your business, you know, knock yourself out. That it's that's a ship. That's a that's a lot that's a lot of fiberglass floating out there. That's a lot of horsepower that for some you're like.

Joe Bricko (53:53.563)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (54:05.616)
Yep. Yep.

Brian Bashore (54:10.334)
boy, I hope that certain you know that guy doesn't get that fast of boat. That could be a problem. That's probably what people say about me. Drive like a bat out of hell. I'm like, I I like to go fast. So it is. It's yeah, I yeah, it's just kind of we just gotta see where things go. But technology will evolve, the products will evolve. Because you gotta keep as you know, abroad, you gotta keep making new stuff to keep the consumers happy and and get them what they want, and then make the modifications with the forward facing solar, the techniques and the baits that come out.

Joe Bricko (54:14.699)
Exactly.

Brian Bashore (54:39.726)
require sometimes a new rod, right? A new action or new length or something that kind of works better into that style. could be the grip, you know, or whatever the case is, you know, being so with new lines, or maybe everybody starts running one and a half ounce jigs all over and you need to run some now you're getting into medium heavies and, you know, and like, well, it just things are gonna change and that's that's the way it is. And the best tournaments change with it. Or the ank tournament anglers change with it as fast as possible. I think when Hoyer got

Joe Bricko (55:07.378)
Yeah, it's

Brian Bashore (55:08.408)
was cleaning house years ago. He was and Dewey came in board, they were kind of cutting edge, forward facing, moved just committed we all knew it, but some committed to it earlier to just full on, this is it, this house done and it and it and then it showed while we're a bunch of us still trolling boards and lead and cranking around catching fish and thinking you got a good day. Then you come in and realize this guy's got ten pounds more than you do because he picked out the fish you wanted. You're like, hm, man, I'm missing something so

Joe Bricko (55:18.812)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Bricko (55:36.836)
Yep, dude. Early adopters had a great run. Yep. Yep.

Brian Bashore (55:39.66)
Yep, yep. Then and you were one, so and it and fishing on those lakes in in Minnesota where you're at was really a a good place to learn it and adapt it 'cause rivers can be a little trickier.

Joe Bricko (55:49.713)
Yeah, it's you know, it it's clear water, it's really it's really spooky fish, a lot of fish to spend in in, you know, the tournament lakes that we have here. So it's you know, just real conducive to to live scope and those and it was it was a slug fest early. The guys that figured it out early had a had a very, very nice run. And you know, I'll probably look back my entire life at that little little time period of of what we're able to do with w within that before, you know, everybody had it. And it it was a rare

you know, unique, you know, situation. And likely, you know, we won't see that kind of a unique opportunity probably probably ever again. It's hard to say for sure. But it was a it was a unique thing and it was it was it was a fun, fun ride.

Brian Bashore (56:35.566)
I would like to see that, you know, the changes moving forward is like your aim stuff and like how you're doing the the catch photo release type stuff.

Joe Bricko (56:43.12)
Yes.

Brian Bashore (56:45.73)
Think and I know most tournamenting are really good stewards, and everybody's You're you're wiping out fisheries live scope, you're blah, blah, blah. Not I don't think that's quite the case. Maybe some places it is, maybe certain species it is. you know, that you know, betanok was a good showcase of the Sheboygan Walleye Club, I it is, or something like that, that raised tons of money and released, puts out like two hundred and fifty thousand walleye in a year there. we're like, yeah, they're whatever they're doing, it's it's working. You know, it's doing good.

Then you got Lake Hawaii tournaments and June through September they're all killer tournaments 'cause they don't think the live wells can keep the fish alive and that's the biggest crock of crap I ever heard. 'Cause trying to catch those fish in your live well in July when you go to weigh in is a son of a bitch 'cause those things are alive as hell. I don't mean boats aren't from the nineteen forties. These are aerators are good and G juice and all the stuff. And it's I mean it's not easy. You gotta babysit and there was plenty of, you know, dead fish at Green Bay, and the water's high like that no matter what, but there's

Joe Bricko (57:29.714)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Brian Bashore (57:42.348)
Guys, I don't know, Hummel would travel with a pump and a long tube and it went s twenty foot down in the water, pulled cold water up into his live well. I'm like, people start doing things like that, your fish are gonna

Joe Bricko (57:48.487)
Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I carried ice. I had a whole I had I had a whole cooler full of ice and that that's that was my strategy to keep and you know, I was able to weigh, you know, my ten were ten were alive, but it was it was a challenge.

Brian Bashore (58:03.062)
It's a challenge, you gotta babysit them, but it it's it's work. But at least having the option in these summertime terms to release those live fish, I think, is is huge. And most every state does that except the Dakotas. I know Scott Kawea gave N NWT a permit last time to do that. However, the holding tanks weren't very cold and those fish were going belly up when they hit it. At least there's a plan in place, they're not going to waste. And I would say it's not very sustainable. However, I feel like all the fisheries are are very healthy.

I think I mean Green Bay just showed you how it was. I think I don't know how those I don't get officials Minnesota Lakes, but I keep they keep adjusting limits or raising, you know, making some modifications. I think the Gillnet surveys and the D and R and GFPs are doing pretty damn good work and they're gonna be the ones that tell you whether you need to make changes or not for the most part. The general public really doesn't know.

Joe Bricko (58:29.368)
I agree. Yep.

Joe Bricko (58:46.918)
Yeah. I get this question all the time, so I feel like I've talked to an ad nauseum. But my my you know, my response is always Mother Nature always finds a way to protect herself. And it kind of goes back to this that unique little run that we had and you know it was it was pretty easy early on with with forward facing sonar on on her lakes. I mean you saw a suspended fish and that thing's gonna bite about I don't know, nine out of ten times.

almost every fish bit. It was just it was laughable how how easy it actually was. I tell you what, now it's about mm, one and thirty on a good day. So that that's that's just kind of you know what I what I say all the time. Mother nature finds a way to protect herself. And you know, that's the big argument. Just 'cause you have it doesn't mean you're catching fish. I mean, we've we've found that we are s scrambling trying to find different things and techniques and

Brian Bashore (59:26.787)
Yep.

Joe Bricko (59:45.639)
line diameter and unique jigs and things to to trigger a bite because it's got it's got so difficult. fish that we used to see six years ago that everyone would bite now you're just like, what is it gonna take to get to get bit? It's it can be super hard. And I think that is Mother Nature, you know, protecting herself 'cause she she always does that. I mean we're our conversations now is okay, every every fish you got to evaluate.

And you gotta make a decision on what the trigger is gonna be for that fish. We used to never walk fish to the bottom. Now we're finding even on Green Bay I I had to do this when they got moody. The fish would be, you know, eight, nine, ten feet down over, you know, twenty five to thirty. And I knew that fish wasn't gonna up bite. I could tell by the mood of that fish. And you're walking that thing all the way down to the bottom and making that that fish, you know, pick that bait up off the off the bottom.

So it's it's forcing us into having to do some some uni unique things. I mean, we're looking at angles a lot more. Used to be able to take some light line and make a really long cast, but when you're out horizontally and trying to work a cadence, you're you're pulling away from that that fish immediately. And if they're not super aggressive like they used to be, they're not gonna close that gap. So now you gotta be a little bit more sneaky to get a little bit vertical. So your your cadence is is

sitting right above them and the jig isn't moving forward so much. Or you walk to the bottom. We didn't we didn't have to do that years ago. So Mother Nature finds a way. So I I think that's always gonna hold true. It just gets stuck.

Brian Bashore (01:01:18.784)
Yeah a lot.

She does.

Yep, nope, I agree. They the fish have a little brain, but that brain is big enough for that little body and it keeps it's they're they're getting educated and like it's it's getting tougher. I mean you you're seeing some of us in Oahu now, they're like, They're there, I just can't get to buy, you know. I'm like like you said, it's one out of thirty versus, you know, nine out of ten. They've seen a jigging crawler sitting in front of their face a gazillion times at this point, going, Yeah, I know what that is, or my buddy

Joe Bricko (01:01:28.624)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (01:01:48.973)
was next to me yesterday and he saw that and I didn't I've never seen him again. So I'm not I'm not touching that thing. You know, that's I I think dropping them on the bottom helps that a lot 'cause that's where a lot of that critters are at that they're just like, All right, that looks safe, but when it's this I mean, that cars don't live in the lake, folks. They're not roaming around in the middle of the water column, you know, unless the good rain washes a bunch of in, but that's that's not normal forage. So it's resembling a insect or whatever, of course, but

Joe Bricko (01:01:50.046)
Yes, yes, yes.

Yeah.

Joe Bricko (01:02:13.146)
Y yeah. And and that's that's something that we we had to adapt to and that that really happened. We started seeing that about three years ago where just the you know, every guy's throwing a jig and crawling every everyone's, you know, trying to reel it away from and and get that trigger. you know, they're they're educated to that in a in a lot of a lot of times.

So we've had to really scramble to try to f you know figure out some different, you know, tactics and and techniques that we can, you know, trigger fish, you know, more consistently. And I think the difference is a lot of guys will just, you know, keep, you know, square peg, you know, round hole where you gotta recognize, hey, that that's not gonna work. And you're gonna have to you're gonna have to change the angle, you're gonna have to walk to the bottom, you're gonna have to do something, you know, a a bit different to create to create that trigger.

I mean every guy's coming in on stage saying, Boy, we we sure had our opportunities. We saw the right fish. They followed it. We just couldn't get to open their mouth. That's everybody everybody has that story. It's you know, we're finding that we're ha we gotta we're having to play with fish a lot more and get to dance and move around and bring up and bring back down and open the bailed and get more depth to get away from the boat a little bit and

you know, really mess mess with those fish a lot more because with I think with forward facing sonar, they've just gotten a lot they've gotten a lot tougher to to to trick.

Brian Bashore (01:03:45.081)
Yeah, I I walk a lot of them to the bottom. But I would say the angle is probably overlooked. I mean, people say, you throw it on one or two times, it doesn't react. I'm like, I've caught a lot of fish on the fifth, sixth, seventh cast. If it's a good one, I'm just gonna work it. And it's here you are, right? You're positioned and you're throwing, and then it's all right, you know, you're doing this, or like you said, getting right over the top. And I'll and just like you, I'm sure you got half a dozen rods rigged up with a jigging wrap, a plastic, a crawler or whatever, and you're

Joe Bricko (01:04:00.477)
The angle's huge.

Joe Bricko (01:04:04.646)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (01:04:13.81)
Exactly.

Brian Bashore (01:04:14.914)
Throw this, throw that, throw that. What's what's it gonna take? There's those times where you they're spooked, right? It drops, you're like, and you're not even touching it, and it's like you're like, what what the hell? You know, but then you throw something else and it just it could be the same fish and it turns around and just flies up. I've had them the other day, I or the other day it was a tournament somewhere not too long ago, but I think the sixth time I got it. No, it was a the Afkawali throwdown. Jigging wrap. Was that that one? No, the first one I caught, first thirty and a half I caught was a jiggrawler.

Joe Bricko (01:04:23.282)
Yeah.

Brian Bashore (01:04:44.0)
And just I'm like, you could tell this one it wasn't going away. Like he wants to eat, but it was until I got vertical, he went up. And then I knew that that was over. When he went straight vertical, I'm like, okay. But it was the sixth cast. And it was kind of a this way, this way behind it. And then he finally got close enough. I'm like, whatever. Boop. Dropped straight down. And as it dropped, and he just turned and went, who was like, there it was. But most people would have gave up and just moved on.

Joe Bricko (01:04:47.888)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Joe Bricko (01:04:56.816)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Bricko (01:05:09.83)
Yeah. Pri prime example of you, I mean you gotta you gotta mess with them quite a quite a bit more. you know, early days it was, you know, get it near and they start to arch up and it's it you know, game over. You know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Get get the net. This this thing's, you know, now you're up, down, bring to the bottom, you know, watch tumbleweed on bottom. Don't lose sight of They raise back up to where they are, you come back at a different angle and you know.

Brian Bashore (01:05:22.634)
Yep, yeah, you you're like get the net, you know, and I haven't hooked it yet. You're like, I got

Joe Bricko (01:05:38.778)
And then eventually, you know, you get that you get that fish to bite and that's you know, that that's that's the discipline of it and just trying to Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Bashore (01:05:46.305)
It is discipline, patience, and obviously boat control. So it's huge. Easy easy to lose them when you lose them to get down to the bottom. All right, we've been we've been going on here a while. Joe, leave our listeners with a a a few more of the million tips you already have. You got a golden nugget, something like that, leave them to help them on their angling journey, whether it's tournaments or just fishing or or pro staffing. Any words of wisdom?

Joe Bricko (01:05:55.611)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (01:06:00.829)
Yeah.

Joe Bricko (01:06:11.002)
Yeah, we we talked a lot about angles. That's kind of the you know, that's kind of in our tournament, you know, group. The the big thing that we're, you know, we're we're focused on is is trying to, you know, get angles to create that that trigger. But being a being a rod builder, I definitely have seen a lot of advantage with picking the right rod for the technique. And we're going to real long rods.

the last two NWTs have been one on the seven six JTX light. if you fast forward back ten years, no one was using a seven six light in the in the tournament world.

But we're just finding that light action. I mean, you're able to just, you know, wave that that tip like a a wand and and create a trigger. And then the other benefit of that is a light rod is gonna, you know, it's gonna have a parabolic bend. So when you're handing a rod off to a co angler and the whole rod is bending, you you feel pretty comfortable.

You got a lot of lot of margin for for error there. So I would say rod selection has been really, really key and important in in trying to create that that all important trigger. Being able to to really wave that tip like a like a willow branch kinda is we're we're able to trigger a lot of bites. And then when you have a a a light rod like that, it's you got a lot of lot of for lot of forgiveness.

I was talking with Jade and he's like, I don't get a lot of bites, but he goes, I don't lose a fish on that rod. He's like, That's that's been that's been key. I might only get five or six bites like he did at the North Dakota Gov cup. He's like, I can't lose one of those. So it's super important to have that rod bending like a rainbow. So that's

Brian Bashore (01:07:55.907)
Yeah, I would that's I've upped mine I my I love my six tens. I've been a six ten, you know, rod size forever, but I went to the seven one, seven threes a little bit more this year for scoping purposes, really. It just when you're suspended fish, being able to hover that bait, longer rod makes that easier to do. And obviously with the light, you know, if you're if it's a jig and crawler bite, boom, they can let suck on that and get that in there without

Necessarily having to open the bell, but obviously you can open the bell as well. But still, the initial having that soft tip initially, you're not gonna be like, you know, you're like, if you're a little late to it, you had a little give. So it's definitely more forgiving. But and then of course, like you said, keeping that thing bent is is key as a guy to hand rods off. You know, if we got kids and they're all hook and be like, All right, here you go. But the first thing they do when you hand the rod off is we're probably standing sideways in the boat, is they always wanna grab it and they're gonna turn

Joe Bricko (01:08:24.622)
Exactly. Yep.

Brian Bashore (01:08:50.572)
you know, to like the back or whichever way that fish is, they're gonna do that fast and they're gonna drop it. And so I don't let go of the rod. I hand it to and I keep my hand on it and I keep pulling and I just say start reeling and until they are fully engaged to reel them before I let go of that rod until I see it load up. And I'm it's probably uncomfortable 'cause I may have my arm around their whole body. I'm like, Reel, keep reeling. And I'm pulling away and I'm like, All right, you got it. So in the years ago I would hand it to and and they would

Joe Bricko (01:08:56.22)
Yeah. Or the rod type better load. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Bricko (01:09:07.954)
Keep keep their ey keep their eye loaded. Yeah. Yep.

Yeah, absolutely.

Brian Bashore (01:09:19.042)
Just immediately they drop it to get comfy like they took it out of the rod holder or whatever the case is. And I'm like, You drop that rod tip, that wallet's gone.

Joe Bricko (01:09:26.246)
rod comes out of load, it's gone. So, you know, we're a big proponent of making sure you got, you know, a really long sweeping load curve. So it's it's it's changed. It's changed a lot from from the past. It was it was extra fast action, six six, six nine. You know, that they still have their time in place, but the majority of what we've done for the last, you know, six plus years is, you know, it's I make an eight foot

panfish rod and all that guys are using for walleye's and it's sneaky good. So where where what's the limit on on that too? I mean making those long casts, you can you can fish with lighter, lighter line when you have a lighter rod because you absorb it into the blank. So you're more stealthy. You're making longer casts with, you know, we we use a lot of eight pound braid. You know, you can take that stuff by hand and just go, right? But if you have

you know, a a a light rod that's absorbing it, you can get away with it. So there's just so many advantages to that longer, you know, light rod. And I don't know where where the end is. Every single year I seem to get asked for longer and longer rods. Maybe next year it'll be ten footers. I I don't know. I mean it's yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yep.

Brian Bashore (01:10:34.188)
They're gonna have to make these rod lockers a little bigger in the boats this day. So I mean I got a couple twelve foot lead cords on the side of my boat and they come all the way to the back. So they're they're a pain in the ass to haul around. But you get it as a rod guy. I've explained it to people for years. I'm like, there's a reason that rod companies make so many different rods for you know, technique specific. I'm like, it makes a hit difference. And as a jig fisherman, that's obviously where your money needs to go in your jigging rod. But it's

Joe Bricko (01:10:43.238)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Brian Bashore (01:11:02.228)
it it can make the difference of you catching thirty fish and your buddy that's using some Walmart knockoff, whatever type thing, catching you're he'll catch fish, maybe he's gonna catch five or ten. And he's like, Right, what are you doing? You're just that much better and it's like you can give that there are obviously the human element involved with it too, but you know, he you can be a hell of a stick at a jig guy, but he's just he doesn't feel the bite or he's missing them all. It's too stiff or too light or whatever. It's just not the right rod for the right situation.

Joe Bricko (01:11:13.818)
Yep, big, big difference.

Joe Bricko (01:11:30.192)
Yeah. Just not the right rod to create a trigger with whatever you're fishing with, you know, and that's why we we really push on and educate technique specific. I mean, I'd I look at my rods and it has a real narrow you know technique that it's is perfect for. And once you get outside of that, it's it's not a very good rod for what you're you're trying to, you know, use it for. You wouldn't grab my snare rod and try to jig wrap fish with it, it'd be a horrible rod. But it has it has a very specific, you know, technique in it.

Brian Bashore (01:11:54.711)
Right.

Joe Bricko (01:11:59.313)
you know, it's become even more important with forward facing sonar and trying to create that trying to create that trigger is you really rods, I would say now, you know, create a bigger advantage than maybe they they ever have. I mean a a trolling rod, you know, wasn't really that that specific. I mean as long as you could pull a board and had, you know, it was soft enough, you're probably gonna get that fish in. But when you're individually picking out a fish and you know how fickle and moody they are,

And it could be the most subtle thing that creates that trigger where they they go from follow to actually open their mouth and bite. It's critically important that you're able to put the right cadence into that jig crawl or that jig wrap or that finisher or whatever have you. And there's very specific rods that can do that a lot better than others. So

Brian Bashore (01:12:47.714)
Yep, yep. And you get the right line and match it up that, you got a deadly deadly combination. That makes another overlooked category. We could talk forever about lines and and stuff like that, but that's a whole other podcast. We about rods is for one. So awesome, awesome joke. Thanks a ton. Appreciate it. That is some good stuff. looking forward to where where we all go in the future and what tournaments we're fishing and circuits we're going, but I'm pretty sure we'll run to into each other out there.

Joe Bricko (01:12:56.048)
yeah, that's that's a whole new that's a whole nother podcast. That'd be another hour, hour and a half. Yep, but there you go. Thank you.

Brian Bashore (01:13:15.818)
on the trail somewhere, hopefully next or I don't know. I'm definitely gonna be hitting the Mississippi River next year. love that place, love fishing there. I know Aim goes there a lot. So I can get Randy on board of that one 'cause we're probably not scoping a whole lot, but it's still could still be used. But boy if you can toss a wheel of cat and work a wing damn, he's he's on board. So

Joe Bricko (01:13:24.988)
Yep, boss.

Joe Bricko (01:13:29.015)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Bricko (01:13:35.546)
We'll we'll see we'll see you up here. Looking forward to it. Thanks for having me on the show. enjoyed my time here.

Brian Bashore (01:13:38.447)
Yep. You betcha. We can't wait. Can't wait. So thank you all for tuning into this episode, Real Talk Fishing with No Limits. You can catch us over on the Wally Guys YouTube page or Facebook page or Spotify, Google, Amazon, all those podcast platforms. We're there. Come listen to Joe. We're talking rides, fishing, and all that good stuff. So stay safe. Keep those lines tight, folks, and we will see you on the water.