Basic Motivations Webinar 2024

What is Basic Motivations Webinar 2024?

Every culture (family) has distinctive motivations for doing things, but they all have definite pattern and logic, they all provide order and direction within the culture (family). We need a valid cognitive styles model to help us understand the motives and actions of other people, to predict behavior, and sidestep conflict.

Connie Smith:

Alright. I was just wanting to, just share something from the status given or status earned, an illustration from from scripture. And, this is from the book of Amos, and it's I'm going to it's chapter a verb, a passage from, chapter 1 where it's talking about the Edomites, and then chapter 2, verse, the passage talking about Moab. Okay? And I think you'll find this interesting unless you've already discovered this.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Edom. The Lord says the people of Edom have sinned again and again, and for this, I will certainly punish them. They hunted down their brothers, the Israelites, and showed them no mercy. Their anger had no limits, and they never let it die.

Connie Smith:

So I will send fire upon the city of Teman and burn down the fortresses fortresses of Bozrah. So these are people who are really bad people, and god is going to punish them. Alright? Then Moab. The Lord says, the people of Moab have sinned again and again, and for this, I will certainly punish them.

Connie Smith:

They dishonored the bones of the king of Edom by burning them to ashes. I will send the fire upon the land of Moab and burn down the fortresses of Kerioth. The people of Moab will die in the noise of battle while while soldiers are shouting and trampling and trumpets are sounding. I will kill the ruler of Moab and all the leaders of the land. What would this these two connected passages have to do with status given and status, earned?

Cindy:

Sorry, Connie. Can you it's Amos. What verses?

Connie Smith:

Verse, verse 1 that means chapter 1, 11, and 12. And chapter 2 verses verses 1, 2, 3. Okay. Now I want you to think about this. This is neither a bad thing nor a good thing.

Connie Smith:

There's no answer that's going to get you to heaven or keep you from getting there. It is simply a teaching point of status given versus status earned.

Donna:

Well, I think the first one is because of their behavior, that's what they earned, and the second one, the king's position. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Okay. But, indeed, both are because of their behavior. The Edomites are going to be destroyed because they hunted down their brothers, the Israelites, and showed them no mercy.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm. Yeah. So it's related to their actions, behaviors. So they

Connie Smith:

heard of them are are with their behavior. And the Moabites, they sinned again and again, and I'll certainly punish them for that. But the major thing here to point out is that they dishonored the bones of the king of Edom by burning them to ashes. Both of these are Both of these are bad people. Okay?

Connie Smith:

And both of them are being, punished for their behavior. But how does the accusation that is highlighted by god in the in the sense that for this, they will be? Each one has if you go to the Syria, they treated the people of Gilead with savage cruelty. The, Philistines carried off a whole nation and sold them as slaves to the people of Eden. Okay?

Connie Smith:

To people of Tyre. They carried off a whole nation in the exile of Eden and did not keep the treaty of friendship. Okay? Edomites hunted down their own brothers and showed them no mercy. Now own brothers, you know, the Edomites are descendants of Esau, and the Israelites were descendants of of, Jacob.

Connie Smith:

And so they're related. So they're brothers. Ammon, it was in their wars for for more territory, they were so cruel. They even ripped open pregnant women in Gilead. Moab, they dis, they sinned again and again, and they dishonored the bones of the king of Edom by burning them to ashes.

Connie Smith:

In Judah, they have despised my teaching and have not kept my commands. They have been led astray by the same false gods that their ancestors served. And then Israel has its own too. So all of these judgments are about behavior and attitude, but behavior. But as an illustration of status given and status, earned, what is the story of Edom and the story of Moab show us?

Connie Smith:

Donna, you you were you were really getting there. And in fact, you you had the answer. It was just, from the wrong reasoning. Well, no. The right reasoning.

Connie Smith:

Anyway, it's not gonna be tweaked enough to think through again. So the two wrongs the two wrongs are the the Edomites were just simply bad, bad, bad people. K? He's showing them no mercy. He says, I will destroy these and burn down their fortresses because their sin was they hunted down their brothers, the Israelites, and showed them no mercy.

Connie Smith:

Okay. That that's okay. We're not determining we're not determining whether the Edomites are status given or status earned. That's not my point. But the Edomites were bad, bad, bad people who had done bad to Israel and who had, so he's bad in that way.

Connie Smith:

The Moabites have sinned against and against, again and again. And for this, I will certainly punish them. Okay? So these are another bunch of bad people. But what does what does they dishonored the bones of the king of Edom.

Connie Smith:

They dishonored the bones of the king of Edom by burning them to ashes. Now the point isn't they're burning them to ashes. That was a a sign at that point in that culture, a sign of dishonor. Mhmm. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Well, I'll tell you.

Mike Banker:

Okay. I I feel like it's something I

Connie Smith:

haven't we can't sit here all day.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

What was the Moabite's sin that's highlighted? He said they send it over and over and over and why they even did this. What does dishonoring the bones of this evil king of this wicked nation have to do with status given or status earned?

Mike Banker:

Oh, he he's king, so he has a status given to him. And even though you go. Here is evil, he's still burning his bones. It's still wrong.

Connie Smith:

It's still wrong. Still a sin according to this. Still an evil thing. Mhmm. Oh, okay.

Connie Smith:

The punishment's gonna be the same for all of these. They're gonna be destroyed, wiped out, basically. All of these are sinful, but there's a highlighted piece in every one of these people groups that was their major thing here. And this one, the one that's named, is that they dishonored the bones of this wicked king of this wicked nation. When god himself said, I'll see that they're destroyed, but they dishonored the bones of the king.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm. So even an evil king has status?

Connie Smith:

Absolutely. Status. Deserves to be honored. The king needs to be honored. Good king, bad king.

Donna:

Okay. Yeah. We were talking about that yesterday a little bit.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Okay. This is not a set of verses that we need to memorize and take to our heart and understand the the, spiritual ramifications of who did what and why and what. It's a teaching point, pure and simple. Okay?

Connie Smith:

That's all we're dealing with right now.

Donna:

K?

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Point was that they were being punished for dishonoring the bones of a wicked king of a wicked country. Beautiful example, I think. Alright. So, enough of that. We could be all day on that particular piece, but we choose not to.

Connie Smith:

So, let's go down and the people that you have chosen to to, observe. And we are down now to what did let's see. Casual. I think this stuff in my head. There's too many other things.

Mike Banker:

Perform performance, status given, status

Connie Smith:

Yes. And we've we finished through the, preparing, the careful casual.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

So, so how did you rate your person unperforming, status given or status earned? So you can do the you can do the assigning.

Mike Banker:

So, Michelle?

Michelle:

Yes? So, I missed yesterday. So but I was, using my son's example. He is very careful and, for status was earned. He doesn't care.

Michelle:

For example, when he was in college years, he would he several of his professors, even though they have all these titles or degrees, but he just felt like the class wasn't in good quality. He didn't really, you know, highly regard. But, but if he needs someone, he's he doesn't care the status, or in his, he can associate with people who he can communicate, and sometimes even talk to homeless people. If he felt that he can have a conversation with the homeless people, he felt that was a meaningful conversation. I know.

Michelle:

Yeah. So then

Connie Smith:

You used the exact right word because you've also said he's he's time. So the time he's spending is worthwhile Mhmm. To people who are that he determines are worth the time to spend with.

Michelle:

Yes. So one example was, when he was in college, one Sunday, he was taking light rail to church on that morning. He he was going to 2 churches, 1 in morning, 1 in the afternoon. But on the right light rail, he, met a homeless person, and he started having conversation. And that person really was open to talk to him.

Michelle:

So he decided to spend time with that person, talk about spiritual things, and skip church that morning.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Very good. Very good.

Michelle:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Very good example.

Michelle:

Yeah. So any I think that was the last last continuum. Right?

Connie Smith:

We had, the in the, individual effort versus re or, effort done through relationships.

Michelle:

Right. So he would be a relationship. Definitely very relational. He, is very sensitive to people in a group setting. If someone is on the fence or quiet on the edge, he would reach out to those people.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. And,

Michelle:

very, very sensitive watching observing someone come to a group, knew he would sit with the person, try to talk to the person, to include the person.

Connie Smith:

Yep. Okay. Alright. So you've given him, status earned. Right?

Michelle:

Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm. Okay. Next, Vivian?

Vivian:

Is this a homework or my my score?

Connie Smith:

No. We've we've these are the things that we, this was homework.

Vivian:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

But, let's see. You haven't you haven't been available since we started doing this. So

Mike Banker:

Yeah. I think you gave examples from, Henkel on the first first two. Right? On time versus event, and the second one was, holistic versus, dichotomous. But I don't think you've been part of the discussion since that point.

Connie Smith:

Oh.

Mike Banker:

So what we did is, completed the pro we're completing the profile for that person we started. And, so I don't if you're if you're not, ready, that's okay. I can go on. And, or if you wanna take a stab at it, that's okay too.

Vivian:

Well, I can, listen to because I'm reading. I'm bit confused. The reason why I'm confused is I think Hankook I think Hankook is 1, But when I look at both, like, oh, it feels if it's the other one. So maybe he's in the middle.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Yeah. I was listening to What what I'm I'm sorry. What did you have him down, of of the 2 that you did? What did you have him down as?

Connie Smith:

I didn't because I don't have that record on this page.

Michelle:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

Time and event.

Vivian:

Time and event. He definitely had time.

Connie Smith:

Okay. And, Dichotomy of Wisdom?

Vivian:

Yes. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Dichotomy? Yes. Okay. And then, directive selective?

Vivian:

I would say he's selective.

Donna:

Okay.

Vivian:

And striving, I think he's, definitely a complement of individual. And for preparing, I think he's yeah. This one, I think he's in the middle.

Connie Smith:

It does.

Michelle:

This one

Vivian:

may be performing also may be in the middle.

Connie Smith:

Of careful casual?

Vivian:

Yeah. In the middle. And performing for status given or status earned, I think, is middle.

Connie Smith:

Well, middle to the left or middle to the right?

Vivian:

More middle to the left given.

Connie Smith:

K.

Vivian:

Not me. Right? Someone else.

Cindy:

Yeah. Someone else. Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So whatever well, I don't know that you've studied it enough, but why would you say he would be a little more given than he would be earned?

Vivian:

Okay. Based on what I read Okay.

Cindy:

What I understand

Connie Smith:

Mhmm.

Vivian:

Because he's he's more self conscious. You know? He's just doing his own thing. And, he's, he's not so conscious. He's not, thinking of, oh, I must act in certain way.

Vivian:

I must do certain things. And he know who he is. Therefore, he adds up. He behaves according to his identity, who he is.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So when he is relating to other people or when he is seeking after, is he looking at people or positions or things, that he wants to work towards, or is he working or seeing people for what their title is and working towards that?

Vivian:

No. Not this. He as he sun care titles and

Connie Smith:

Okay. So what would that be then?

Vivian:

That means a given.

Connie Smith:

Okay. No.

Michelle:

Sorry?

Connie Smith:

If you have to if you have to the, status earned people are people that say, you have to go out and earn my respect. You have to earn, by your performance. You have to earn my acceptance of your status? He's not that. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Then then people who are status given say, because you are this, then whether you perform well or not is not important to me. I will still relate to you because, in, going to you for advice.

Vivian:

Yes.

Connie Smith:

Say you need a plumber.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Okay? Would he go to one who is a plumber, or would he go to a neighbor that he knows some that he knows that knows something about plumbing, he hopes? The second one. Okay. So, that would be because why?

Connie Smith:

Because the one is cost costing money and the other one isn't?

Vivian:

No. Because because he knows that someone who can do it, not because of the title. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Mhmm. Okay. So, you picked given, so we'll go with that. Alright.

Connie Smith:

Because in the end, it's not gonna matter exactly who the person is. We're going to be manipulating, profiles. Mhmm. Okay. So in the end, it doesn't matter who we're talking about.

Connie Smith:

We've decided that this person is this, this, this, and this. And I'm at this, this, this, and this. I put my things on the profile chart and see where we're going to match up and where we might have problems and how I'm gonna react and so on. Alright. Who's next?

Mike Banker:

Next. Stone.

Connie Smith:

Okay.

Stone:

Okay. So, I think she is mixed, but slightly might be slightly towards status given. She grew up in a in a rural place, which really value respecting elders. So she grew up in that environment, But she okay. So she's from a small city.

Stone:

So she's a small city girl, but she made everything from the very beginning on her own. So she made it to a very good university, got a master degree, got married in Beijing, and they purchased an apartment in Beijing. So she really believes on her performance.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Well, would that be given or earned?

Mike Banker:

I think

Connie Smith:

Her success, her position of what she is today, was that given? Was she born into that, or did she work for it? That's earned. Okay.

Stone:

So the culture she grew she grew up in Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

Is

Stone:

more status given. So because in a small city, in a southern place in bay in China, not mid Beijing, in China, it's quite the culture is quite has this vibe of agricultural. So agricultural culture will respect elders because the elders know how to plant, how to harvest, they have all the life experience. And, if you want to have a thriving life really depending on the heritage, the wisdom of that in heritage from the elders. That's the the the culture background that she grew up with.

Stone:

And in fact, she earned that position in Beijing.

Connie Smith:

Really, I would you would say that she herself, though Yeah. Has taken that. She probably still respects elders. Yeah. That's what And her performance in in life or in her status, though she may give honor to the elders Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

She may still be earned in which she goes out and she works with people who are also have earned their place.

Stone:

Yes. She values that a lot.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. The fact that she it was her hard work that got her to where she is today.

Stone:

Yes. Okay. So she's quite I think she's she's she's in the in the middle of the school.

Connie Smith:

I think she it sounds to me like she's much more earned.

Stone:

But when I talked to her about me, like, studying for I have I shared my thinking about study for and when I when I was talking with her immediately, that's very good for your, the credential is very good for for you, for your ministry. So she didn't ask anything else about that. She matters that credential. I think that's quite just given.

Connie Smith:

You are earning the credential not for the sake of the credential, but for the sake of it gives you more status.

Stone:

Yes. Yes.

Connie Smith:

Okay. That's all.

Stone:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

So You you you tell me what you wanna do with her, given her earned. In the end, it really does

Cindy:

hardest to say.

Connie Smith:

I think it's probably Take one take one or 2.

Michelle:

Status given.

Donna:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Alright.

Stone:

I think it's still deep rooted in her. Okay. So she will give respect to the elders. Yes.

Mike Banker:

But what

Connie Smith:

does she do to her professor who's 3 years younger than she is?

Stone:

She probably have lots of dots on

Cindy:

Okay.

Mike Banker:

How you're throwing the itch thing. That's that's okay.

Connie Smith:

So and then there was also the dichotomy thing that, that says people who are younger than me don't have any stat have a okay. Anyway, we got her down as given. Alright. Who's next?

Mike Banker:

Next would be Carmen.

Michelle:

My pastor's wife status earned. In this church system, they don't care what titles, what education background you have. They observe and see, who who demonstrated their maturity, their faithfulness, their Bible knowledge. Like, in this church system, they have a lot of ministers who don't have degrees or who who had a drug user's past. Like like our pastor.

Michelle:

They have several pastor like like this. And the pastor's wife in those bible small group, in the women's ministry, she needs. She was she has been looking for a Chinese, bible study group leader. So a friend recommended someone. I tried to introduce this person to her.

Michelle:

She's like, I don't care, like, what experience they have. It's about, like, this person. Are they all in line with our doctrine? It's about doctrine. And then she gave me a book about what this church believes.

Michelle:

And they don't mind if this person doesn't have experience. They can train. They want to find the right person with the right character and train them up.

Connie Smith:

That'd be good.

Michelle:

Their attitude.

Connie Smith:

Very good.

Michelle:

They don't have education background. They are both high school graduators, but they are very effective church planters.

Connie Smith:

Very good. Particularly, any anyway, very good. Good good, good evidence. Okay. Alright.

Connie Smith:

Who's next?

Mike Banker:

Okay. Next is, Donna.

Donna:

Okay. My husband would be status earned, I believe. Now when you say dress according to personality, that means how he dresses around people. Is that correct?

Connie Smith:

Oh, yes. Yeah. So he,

Donna:

you know, if he feels like wearing something scruffy, he will not, you know, dress for what I would call the impassion because he doesn't feel like it. You know? So he doesn't he doesn't worry about impressing or fitting in that way, and and everybody's asking no matter how he looks. So, I mean, usually, he looks nice, but, I mean, it's definitely not something that he you know, I'll say, well, maybe you should wear something a little different than that to this. Doesn't matter.

Donna:

So Yep. The social group above and below his level, he does very well with that. For example, when he was a pilot, after he would come back and land the plane, he would often go down to the ramp and go in the lounge with the ramp people and hang out and talk with them.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm.

Donna:

Whereas other pilots would not speak to them because that's not their group. You know, they're they would only with other pilots. But he would go down on top of them and, you know, end up fishing with them on the weekend. You know? Doesn't matter.

Donna:

And then he just had Achilles surgery in June. Oh my word. I guess I'm a little more status earned than he is because he's talking to this doctor. He finds out he has a cabin in South Dakota near our cabin. And so he's talking, and he's getting his phone number and where's your cabin?

Donna:

He's looking at the picture of it. Now the 2 of them are gonna meet and have coffee out in South Dakota sometime. I'm like, I would never do that to my doctor. You know, he just he just considers himself on same level as anybody. So

Connie Smith:

That, I I think you've, hit the nail yet there.

Donna:

Interesting watching this.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Who's next?

Mike Banker:

I guess that would be me. Okay. Alright. Well, so this, I'm I'm talking about, say, colleague that we're on the same team for many years, and, he I can't even remember the rest of the list right now. But, anyway, as far as status earned and status given, I struggle.

Mike Banker:

I think he puts a lot of weight on, degrees, like, especially PhDs, I would say. I think that's probably more accurate. And so if he's gonna hire somebody for something, I think credentials play, play large, and he himself also, has his PhD. But it's conflicting to me because, like, for example, he knew the he knew the local vendor on the street that was, making gen banks, and his daughter had a brain cat had brain cancer. And when he found out, he mobilized people to help her see a doctor.

Mike Banker:

She couldn't even get in to see a doctor. So he organized that and also raised some money to help pay for the expense of that. And so he he has a big heart, so he doesn't, stick in his lane, so to speak, when it comes to his status in society. But so I I had a hard time pegging him pinning him down, I guess, because of those two different things.

Connie Smith:

But you see, one of the things that you see here this is beautiful. One of the things that you see here is that even status given people can have a heart and can exhibit mercy and grace and concern for other people. Okay? Right. That doesn't take away from that.

Mike Banker:

It's kind of part of that same the the great white savior, though, kind of mindset of, and it's not like he's gonna they're not really friends.

Connie Smith:

Right.

Mike Banker:

Okay. So there's still so there's still lanes, I guess, in society.

Connie Smith:

There's still lanes because he is here at this economic level

Mike Banker:

Uh-huh.

Connie Smith:

Or whatever the the judgment is here, economic level or work level. Anyway, he's at this status. This vendor is of a lower status. Mhmm. And if he if he's going to do his his status, out of a heart of generosity or a heart of being a savior, that either way, he's going to be able to reach down because that's part of my status's behavior is we are philanthropic when we choose to be, to whom we choose to be.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. It sounds, when you describe it, though, he is he I think he really has a heart for these people. It's not any

Connie Smith:

That's what I'm saying.

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

This is what I'm saying, people. The where you are in that continuum has nothing to do with your character.

Mike Banker:

Right. Thank you for clarifying that.

Connie Smith:

It has nothing to do with your character. It does have to do with how your character carries out its characterness. Does that make any sense?

Mike Banker:

Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense to me. So I guess in the end, I think he's he's mostly status given. Okay.

Connie Smith:

And

Mike Banker:

so He's always he's always searching for that expert to be in charge, I think.

Connie Smith:

So let's go with that. And that would be that would be the given one, looking for the expert to do it. Yeah. Versus the illustration that, Vivian gave about her purse her husband who would go for the one that he knows can do the job

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

Whether he's an expert in it or not. Okay.

Mike Banker:

He

Connie Smith:

knows how to do the job that he wants done right now.

Mike Banker:

Well, actually, I wanna add a comment. When people are in ministry, though, it's oftentimes there's not enough money. And so sometimes even if you have a status given where you're looking for the expert, can't always afford him. So you end up, with people who can do the job but aren't the experts. So it's kinda counter to his his.

Mike Banker:

So you see in his in his behaviors, you see both actions. So it's the point.

Connie Smith:

Okay. But the thing is he has to go against what he would really like to happen.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

Okay? So he has to be in control enough of his motivation to be able to say, oh, well, I can't afford him. This guy will probably do a good enough job on this. But he's not gonna go to just any old buddy that's off the street. He is going to find no call on somebody that he knows has had some experience.

Connie Smith:

Like I say, maybe it's his neighbor who came at one point to, help him put a faucet in or something. So, again, being in control of your being without putting any judgments on it allows you to adapt. It doesn't mean you've changed positions. It means that you are able to adapt your position to what's needed at the given time. Does that make sense?

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Yep. So

Connie Smith:

And this is this is why this study is so important so you can understand where you are, understand where they are, and figure out ways that you are going to have to be in charge of my, motivation so that I can adapt it to what is needed to accomplish my goal, which is doing this person to hear me for whatever purpose.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. So I I set out on this to try to identify why we had so much conflict. I still don't have an answer to that, but I'm hoping the next few days, I'll know.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. Well but it may not be at this level. The conflict

Mike Banker:

Yes. That's true. That occurred to me. I was thinking about that yesterday. So yes.

Mike Banker:

Thank you.

Connie Smith:

There are there are people that you just are not can you imagine I I mean, just thinking it through, Why did God never ask Peter and Paul to go to the same place?

Mike Banker:

Because it it would be okay.

Connie Smith:

They would never have gotten along long enough to get the work done. Okay?

Mike Banker:

If it's wasteful, Connie, why would you send 2 of the apostles to the same place?

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Okay.

Mike Banker:

I don't know.

Connie Smith:

But, anyway, there you can read what they how they've written, what they've written, and what they considered and the conflicts that they did have that are recorded. And they are just people who probably didn't really like each other. I didn't say they didn't love each other. We're not commanded to like each other. We are commanded to love each other with agape love, and that that whole relationship ended up working out because they were both filled with agape love for each other and respect, etcetera, etcetera, not because they were alike or approached life the same way.

Connie Smith:

Okay? Mhmm. Now I'm not notice I'm trying really, really hard not to put judgments of character on either one of them.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So that's it? That's everybody?

Mike Banker:

Well, yep. That's it.

Michelle:

Mhmm. Cindy Cindy Hudson.

Mike Banker:

Oh, sorry. You're right. That's Cindy.

Connie Smith:

Gotta speak up there, Cindy.

Cindy:

It keeps us I I'm bringing up, the rear a

Connie Smith:

couple of times.

Cindy:

Yeah. I think that, well, I was talking about my son. Mhmm. And, he is deaf I was when I was listening to Michelle at the first part of it, I was going, my gosh. Is that are you talking about my son or your son?

Cindy:

He's very similar. Like, he doesn't give any regard to degrees, titles, and authority, age, not at all. Sometimes it's just like, that's a little too extreme. However, Hana, you were saying according to the situation, people do change, and that's how I've seen

Connie Smith:

People don't change. People adapt. Okay. They adapt. Okay.

Connie Smith:

You're right. Better choice of words. Yeah.

Cindy:

More accurate. So he adapts, though, when it comes to our family. So being Asian, he gives respect to all the aunts, the uncles, the grandparents, and is that status given because of their their his elders, and we've kind of even though his orientation is extremely earned, the ironic thing is is that he grew up in China, yet he is so earned. I mean

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. He has

Cindy:

such an earned orientation. So, so that's an I wrote a lot more, but, anyway, I think we're running out of time. That's that's good enough.

Connie Smith:

Okay. But just remember just remember that just because a person is earned, doesn't mean that that they can't be polite, that they can't show respect to a person

Michelle:

Mhmm. They

Connie Smith:

might not even know, but in a position that deserves the respect. It doesn't mean they can't do that. Mhmm. You can be taught how to be polite. But there's other qualities and other things that I would imagine that one thing your son has grown up with is a respect for people, just a respect for people.

Connie Smith:

And so, therefore, it's it's no problem for him to show respect where respect is due. That's earned. You see? And, anyway, you are not locked into this rigid list of behaviors. K?

Connie Smith:

This is a tool, but it is a flexible tool. There is no absolute because you're dealing with human beings. And human beings are very, very, very complex. You are not dealing with a machine that you have to fix just right and then it runs right and does exactly what you expect it to do. You're dealing with a human being with lots of things feeding them.

Connie Smith:

But some of those human beings tend to be more left sided and tend some of those people human beings tend to be more right sided, and yet many more people are kind of a combination of all over the place. Okay? So this is what our next work, and we're gonna be doing this, what do they call it, live? So I want you to take a piece of paper, and I want you to draw on that paper oh, where is the illustration? The one that says the pro that has the word profile at the top, and it has the the lines oh, there it is.

Connie Smith:

So I want you to draw not where it's marked, but and not all these numbers across the top, but I want you to draw a pro just a profile template. So you'll have time and event, and I don't care how far apart you space these, but you want them far enough apart that you can make connecting the dots. Okay? So go ahead and make one of those right now. K?

Connie Smith:

When everybody's done with that, we'll go on to the next. Okay. Were you done? Okay. So what you're having on this is simply, t and e, d and h, or you can write out the words, d and s, c a r and c a s, I e, and I r, or status given as, given and earned.

Connie Smith:

So that's all this has on it now. And these are the continuum is equals. So you could draw a straight line more or less between them. Okay? Anybody still need more time?

Mike Banker:

Yeah. I'm I was I've been fiddling trying to get that, chart back up there for you, so I haven't really done it yet. But I'll I'll catch up as you go. I, one moment. Sure.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Now we're not going to be concern so the the so on this continuum, I want you, first of all, to place a dot on each line. Okay? So I want you to place a dot representing, your about where you are. Forget the numbers and all of that.

Connie Smith:

This is the center line. Go with that. And so our extreme, you would be way over here somewhere. If you're really extreme, you would be further. If you're less extreme, then put it a little closer to the middle.

Connie Smith:

And the same thing. So put your marks on here. You don't need to be precise. There's not it's not a test. It's gonna be a work project.

Connie Smith:

So you're going to have the dot at a different place if you're a 4 versus if you're a a 10. You're gonna have it a little further towards the center, but the number is really not what we're looking at. Okay? When you have that done for each of the continuums and you already have, it on your list of of what you were, then so if you've got all the your dots on, then I want you to connect the dots. So if you're okay.

Connie Smith:

Anyway, it will end up we can't do that, I guess. Okay. You will end up with your profile on there. Alright? Everybody done with that?

Michelle:

Yes.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So now either in a different color or some way that you can distinguish, and you might wanna, indicate someplace which color is or which symbols are you and which are them. So you might do yours in pencil and the other guy in pen, or you might use 2 different color pens, or you might use a a a big star for 1 and a little dot for the other. Some way that when you so now you're putting your person, and it really doesn't matter that this is your son or your husband or whatever at this point. It matters the other person.

Connie Smith:

So I want you to do the same thing for them. Put on the the profile sheet that same one that same one, where they are on their profile. Now connect those dots. So you will now have a set of lines, 2 sets of lines where they intersect and where they, where they, diverge. So they it may look let's see.

Connie Smith:

Do we have an example of that in the book? I don't know.

Michelle:

Just a

Connie Smith:

minute.

Mike Banker:

I think there's an example at the very beginning of,

Connie Smith:

of course. Done this before, so there's no record of it being done in which we have at the point of teaching. We may have done 1. Oh, that. Yes.

Connie Smith:

My page 6. And the this is what it will look like. Can you see that? Mhmm. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So it will look something like that. And it looks like with this one, it is just, done it, a heavy line versus a lighter line. Okay. So now you have alright.

Connie Smith:

And you were not finished with that. Okay? Alright. You want to, show us by holding it up to your camera. Mike, you call it called it up.

Connie Smith:

You call

Mike Banker:

it up. Alright. So, Michelle, I I just go for around my screen, by the way. Just follow a top of your other phone.

Connie Smith:

Fine. Except my screen is different than your screen.

Michelle:

So Yeah. Mhmm.

Vivian:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

Alright.

Mike Banker:

Do you want us to look at hers more,

Connie Smith:

like, a little bit more? Want you to see what what her profile looks like. That's all. We're not you're not gonna do anything with her profile.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Right.

Connie Smith:

But see what as you go around

Mike Banker:

Okay. Alright.

Connie Smith:

How different these profiles look. So, Sean,

Mike Banker:

you're go ahead. Sean, go ahead.

Michelle:

You sent

Cindy:

it I sent it into the into the chat box. Can you see it?

Mike Banker:

Oh, let's see.

Connie Smith:

Okay. See it. I don't know if you had into the chat. Well, yes. I do.

Connie Smith:

Yes. I do.

Cindy:

So the yellow one is me. The the green one is that sister.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Cindy:

Can you can you see it?

Michelle:

Mhmm. Yeah.

Cindy:

Yeah. I couldn't change the line on on the, you know, on the

Connie Smith:

Oh, so okay. So, basically, you are just alike.

Michelle:

Yeah. Very similar.

Mike Banker:

It looks like synchronized swimming.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. It does. Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

Oh, that's interesting. I've never seen that before. Okay. Very good.

Michelle:

Are we look alike? I think we are in

Donna:

the different zone. There's no cross. Right.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. So you're gonna have lots of problems. Oh. Alright. Now That doesn't sound good.

Connie Smith:

Okay.

Mike Banker:

Yes, Carmen. Mhmm.

Michelle:

Let me let me post my photo. You will see it. Go yeah. Somebody else can go.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Donna, go ahead.

Connie Smith:

Well,

Donna:

I, let's see.

Connie Smith:

I gotta see what you can see. K. I am the, can you see that? Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

Yep.

Donna:

I am the curvy line because I

Connie Smith:

knew my numbers. And my husband, I don't know his numbers because I don't have

Donna:

I can't you know, I didn't place him, like, what closer barf, but I know he's all to the right of the

Connie Smith:

Okay. Let let me, do you have his his

Donna:

I know that these are the cat he was in these categories on this right side, but I don't know how far over. But he's to the right of me and everything.

Connie Smith:

Okay? Okay.

Donna:

But I don't know, like, closer or further, but he's definitely to we don't crisscross anywhere.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So that that is why I just said go with the middle and not worry about the anyway, it's good. It's good. Yes. We saw it.

Connie Smith:

Well, anyway And very, very unusual on that one also is there's very few people, who are that that not over not touching at some point, not near each other at some point. Anyway, that's it's good. Or possibly do each

Donna:

other in individual effort, which with I mean, in relationship, that would be striving. Right? That's where we're closest, which surprised me because I thought I was more individual than I than I scored.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. Okay. But

Donna:

the others, yeah, we've had to work through over the years.

Connie Smith:

So shared in a file in the meeting.

Mike Banker:

K. Alright. So how about Cindy? Or or, Connie, did you have other comments or just

Connie Smith:

no. I we did have a comment from, Carmen, which is to that she's in a file. Oh, she's in the chat. No? Yeah.

Connie Smith:

So that's where the file is is. Okay. I see it in there.

Mike Banker:

Let's go to Carmen's first, and then we'll

Connie Smith:

go. Okay.

Mike Banker:

Yep. Alright. So there's Carmen's is in the chat, and here we can see that. Black.

Cindy:

Mhmm.

Michelle:

The red one is, the black one is me. The red one is the pastor's wife.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Cindy:

Okay. You see? Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. It's very clear.

Connie Smith:

Okay. That's how it is. Okay. That's a very interesting one. Oh, I just find it so exciting to have all of these ones that are so different from one another, and here you are in the same class.

Connie Smith:

Boy, what what a challenge for the teacher. Alright.

Mike Banker:

Okay. So let's see. Where else I then? Cindy, I think. Right?

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Cindy:

Is it very clear, though? Who's who? I am the pencil, and my son is the colored one.

Donna:

A little bit higher, just about a couple inches higher.

Connie Smith:

It looks like it looks like one color.

Cindy:

Mhmm. Oh, there you are.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Very good. Very good.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. It looks like, looks like the constellation Hercules.

Cindy:

I know. I was thinking it looks like some kind of stars in the thing. Okay. Yeah. Constellation.

Cindy:

So

Connie Smith:

And and looks like branch partners.

Cindy:

Leighton and I are, so I just quickly gotta look. We're closest in the directive selective and and the the individual. That's where we are the closest together. Okay. Everything else is pretty far apart.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Yeah. Okay. Very good. Very good.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Michelle:

Do you

Connie Smith:

do you see what I I say when you when you look at it this way? Anyway, I just find it so exciting that we have all of these different profiles. Great. Okay. Let

Mike Banker:

me let me check on you and see if Vivian, do you have your profile?

Cindy:

Not yet. Okay.

Mike Banker:

Let me So let me show mine, though, Connie.

Connie Smith:

She she said she had to step away.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Alright. So I don't know if you can see this or not, but I guess not. Oh,

Connie Smith:

we can see it, but it's too blurry. So it's very blurry. You need your other your face. You need your other camera.

Cindy:

No. Why? You need to cover your your

Mike Banker:

it's like,

Cindy:

cover your face.

Michelle:

Face. Cover your face. You block your face with it.

Cindy:

Lock your face. Hide your face behind it.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Now that's that's that's better.

Michelle:

Oh, easy. You you hide yourself behind it.

Mike Banker:

That's what I'm okay. I can't see what I'm I can't

Cindy:

I know. That's you can so that's

Mike Banker:

the problem. So I have to see something. Alright. There we go.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Oh, very, very good. Very good. Where did it go? Okay.

Cindy:

The blue one is you you. Right?

Mike Banker:

Yeah. The x's is, my colleague, and I'm the dots. Yeah. Yeah. It's blue.

Mike Banker:

It is blue. You're right. It's blue ink.

Connie Smith:

Oh, yeah. Mhmm. Okay. Alright.

Mike Banker:

Okay. So you're good?

Connie Smith:

Uh-huh. Very good again.

Mike Banker:

My my camera has very shallow depth of focus, and so that's that's why it looks that way.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Now

Mike Banker:

you need I'm I'm very fuzzy, so I have to refocus them. Yeah. There you go.

Connie Smith:

Oh, wow. Cool. You're sitting there manipulating the camera. A camera

Mike Banker:

I I loaned one lens to one son and one lens to another, my son-in-law. And, so I'm stuck with this long lens, which has very depth low, shallow depth of field. So, anyway

Connie Smith:

Oh, well done. You're a you you're a good adapter.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. There you go. Right. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Just add everyone.

Donna:

Michelle? Did we get Michelle? Yeah. I think we did.

Michelle:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Alright. Now which one of you, having seen, the profiles, which one of you has the perfect profile?

Mike Banker:

No. I do. I do.

Connie Smith:

And you're right. All of the I do's are right because the profile is yours. Okay? No judgment. Nobody has a bad profile.

Connie Smith:

Nobody has a perfect profile. But it is a profile that we can utilize for helping the other person understand something. One of the first places that we use this with a couple, it was a Finnish couple. Oh. And, I I'm we're very well I'm very well connected to Finland.

Connie Smith:

They're all they're all old people now. But, anyway, very well connected to Finland. I have a a heart for the Fins.

Mike Banker:

Oh, I didn't know.

Connie Smith:

This was a couple, who we never had much time with, maybe maybe less than a maybe 3 or 4 days. And they were part of another group, and we were there doing something for yet another group. And for whatever reason, they were a part of this. And they came to us afterwards and began to talk about their experience as trainees and the total frustration, etcetera, etcetera that they had gone through. They could get nobody to listen to them.

Connie Smith:

They had nobody to share the story with. And their biggest their biggest thing out of this was that you've showed us why we came away feeling so so unheard.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

And, you are the first people that we have had who actually heard us. So then we got to talking more about PR and so on. And and then the comment was, you are the if there were more people who actually listened, there would be more effective

Cindy:

and, cross cultural workers out there.

Mike Banker:

Right. That's quite a statement, isn't it?

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

So this couple, she's Mongolian, and he's finished. So imagine that.

Connie Smith:

K. Alright.

Mike Banker:

That's all. So cross cultural marriage, and so, of course, there's differences. And, so I think it'll be very eye opening for them. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Yes.

Mike Banker:

And, so they have a heart to bring PR to to Finland also.

Connie Smith:

Well, now I'm right there.

Mike Banker:

Where they live in. So

Connie Smith:

My blessing. You got my blessing. You got my blessing.

Mike Banker:

I just didn't know you had been connected with those Fins before. So

Connie Smith:

Well, not those 2. So we were under the the mission that was over the synod that we were assigned to in Ethiopia was the Finnish Lutheran Mission. Uh-huh. And you had everything in there from, what do I say? Very conservative, fundamental to

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

He wondered if they even knew who who god was.

Mike Banker:

Was it a state church?

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. So then it had everything.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. And there were there were 3, I think, or 4 different Finnish groups. 3 at I don't remember if there were 3 or 4. But, anyway, separate mission groups from Finland in Ethiopia when we were there. Oh.

Connie Smith:

So we got to know a number of ones that were part of this group and number ones that were part of that group. And, they had the the Finnish school kids' school on the center of where we were assigned. And, we related to anyway, that mission took over all the funding of the project, told us we didn't need to look for anymore, say what we needed, and we had it. So while there were whole missions, whole missions working forever and ever in in Ethiopia, which has a different script, by the way. Nam Herrick's script is is, very different.

Connie Smith:

And this big group had one Amherick typewriter. Our little cluster over here

Mike Banker:

in

Connie Smith:

our project, we had 4. And another, a translator who was working under this large group that just had 1, we loaned her one of those so that she could complete her work.

Mike Banker:

I'm just laughing because I'm what were they thinking? I mean

Connie Smith:

It obviously worked.

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Michelle:

We we have some connection to Finnish, mission 2. Our first visa after language study was, Chris was working with a Finnish NGO. Mhmm. It was not a good ex experience. It was they would not allow us to talk to any of the local staff about our faith, and they will invite the staff member to talk about Muslim Muslim belief in the office, but forbidden any of us workers there to to share our faith.

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Cindy:

Kind of

Connie Smith:

sounds like the Olympics this year.

Cindy:

Yes. So why didn't they allow you to share your faith?

Connie Smith:

Because that was a good choice.

Michelle:

No. Because they are NGO. Right? They are NGO.

Mike Banker:

They are

Michelle:

Yeah. They have agreement with

Mike Banker:

Yeah. I

Michelle:

see. Yeah. With government, so you are not supposed to but, okay, because

Connie Smith:

we stay talk about Christianity. Any other faith is perfectly okay.

Michelle:

Right. Right. So they invite the staff members. Oh, you can bring your Islam thing to talk about in the office, but we cannot talk about our faith even outside of work hour with the staff local staff. Okay.

Michelle:

What? Yeah. So, anyways Yeah.

Mike Banker:

So I I know a team, a, Chinese team that's in Afghanistan that, they refuse to have any relationship with any NGO because the NGOs are known as Christian organizations, and they don't think that helps them actually. It may actually hinder them. So so, yeah, it's kinda complicated sometimes. But yeah. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

But we have that in America.

Mike Banker:

We have what?

Connie Smith:

We have that same kind of thing that we're talking about in America.

Mike Banker:

Oh, yeah.

Connie Smith:

In your classrooms and mostly place where you're not allowed to pray.

Michelle:

When I was teaching in Minneapolis Public School, the school said you cannot say Merry Christmas, but you can say happy Hanukkah. You can say whatever. That is okay, but you cannot say Merry Christmas. You can say happy holidays.

Connie Smith:

Yep.

Michelle:

That was 20 some years

Cindy:

ago. Yep. I was dreaming in Canada.

Connie Smith:

In in the classroom, you can talk about any other faith that you cannot talk about? I do not. They teach the 5

Donna:

pillars of Islam in fact.

Cindy:

They teach

Connie Smith:

them 5 the 5 pillars of Islam.

Michelle:

This is crazy. Crazy. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. But is that not what's predict prophesied in scripture would happen? Mhmm.

Michelle:

Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

The Lord hates us Mhmm. Because they hate our savior. They hate our God. I think it's an interesting thought that, Marxism is an anti god movement, but Islam is an antichrist movement. I find that very interesting, just just the wording.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. That's

Connie Smith:

no problem with our god. They don't understand god the way we understand god, but then neither did the Greeks when we borrowed the, the god word for them.

Mike Banker:

Yep.

Connie Smith:

But we didn't have any problem with that in the amongst the matzah because they didn't even have a word for god. They knew nothing about a god. So we had we used the borrowed word and then taught what that word meant. Anyway, it's all very interesting. I think we're all back, and we can get started.

Connie Smith:

But just one more finished story. Some of these okay. Let's see. It was the year that we went out on a 3 month strategy evaluation for a short term mission group who were trying to figure out what needed to be changed in order to have our short term people who'd been there 15 years, how to adapt to better serve the long term people instead of trying to treat these long term people like short term people. So we had 5 countries, I think, that, that we did this evaluation on in their work.

Connie Smith:

So one of these groups that we ran across, there was a a a young Finnish man there, and, he heard a little bit about us. And he said, you are the one that taught I can't even remember the girl's name. Maya. Okay? Was that not right?

Connie Smith:

Were you not in Ethiopia? And didn't you teach Maya English? She's he said, she's my fiance. And I think we met him in in Israel, maybe. I think that's what it was.

Connie Smith:

Isn't that interesting? I I

Mike Banker:

So, Connie, what do we do with these little

Connie Smith:

Okay. Now

Mike Banker:

map that we drew?

Connie Smith:

For this for this first round, let's first round, to make it simpler, let's, let's take a something that we want to communicate or interact with this person about. And let's take a few minutes to think about if this person is and it can be, it can be your son at this point. Okay? Your son, the pet person that you did this on, that'll make it easier than trying to make him ambiguous. Okay?

Connie Smith:

So for this first try, I want you to think of something that you wanna communicate, something you're trying to get them to do, something you're trying to get them to learn. And I want you to, jot down, knowing his his profile, her pry profile and yours and where they they interact or don't interact or whether they're just the same, thinking through what might be the way that you might have to adapt in order to get them to to get what you want done accomplished, whether it's teaching them or, asking them to do a project or incorporating them in a project or continuing to be a colleague? Or what are you going to have to do with this person? What are you going to have to adapt yourself to not just because you see where they are on that continuum, but where you are on the continuums and where they are on the continuums. Okay?

Connie Smith:

So we're looking at their whole profile, not just one continuum. So

Mike Banker:

I might need more coffee for this.

Stone:

This is so hard.

Connie Smith:

I can

Stone:

do everything against mine. My habit.

Connie Smith:

Well, you have to have a little originality here. A little a little understanding of if you're the same as that person, what are you going might have to adapt in order to get them to do what your goal is? Now you're not going to probably not going to finish that today, but let's get at least started on it. And, we're let's work on it till let's go ahead and I'll I'll be here, and you can stop and ask me questions if you want to. But let's do this, for let's see.

Connie Smith:

Let's do this for 30 minutes and see where we are. K? If if you can't think of of something that you want them to do or what you're trying to get them to do, whether that's to understand the lesson or, whatever. If you can't think of of what to do, then see if someone in the group has, has an idea of something you might do.

Stone:

Connie,

Connie Smith:

if if

Stone:

to get this down, I have to behave the way that I do like on myself. Is that worth the try?

Connie Smith:

Well but this is all about you. You don't have any control over the other person. If you're trying to communicate something to that person, it's up to you to do it in a way that they can best understand. It's all but that's that's just the the rule of communication.

Stone:

They really push me out of my comfort zone.

Connie Smith:

Yep. You're probably a little bit more directive and, and, a little bit I

Stone:

have to be very directive.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. I

Stone:

it's better that I do not leave them options. I need to come up very strong.

Connie Smith:

Okay. That's fine. But that's who you are. But what is the other guy? No.

Stone:

No. No. No. If I talk to this person, I need to be behave that way. I'm not purely that way.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Alright. That's what I'm saying. Alright. So do it.

Connie Smith:

This is an area where I'm gonna have a conflict. So I was going to have to take charge of where I am, and I'm going to have to adapt where I am in order to reach the person I'm trying to communicate with.

Stone:

Oh, I'm torn.

Connie Smith:

Well, so are the rest of us.

Cindy:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

That's why we're doing the assignment so we can get a little practice of doing something that we really don't understand quite yet what I'm doing. And I haven't had enough direction nor have I had enough choices. But you did have the choice on the person, so we're going to go with that person, and we're going to go with you, and we're going to go with the profile.

Michelle:

Hey, Connie. May I ask? This works it's like there is an assumption you have to change before you adapt as if

Connie Smith:

No. No. No. No. I did not say that.

Connie Smith:

I didn't say that you have to do anything. Okay? Okay. So what if it's like If your goal if your goal is to accomplish what you want to accomplish with this person. What are you going to have to do to best help them get to that point.

Michelle:

What if it feels like, I just do what I've been used to doing, and there's no need to adapt or change anything.

Connie Smith:

What does that mean? Because you're a perfect communicator, and that other person always does what you want them to do or has enough information and presented in such a way that they've made the choice to to understand what you want done and go out and do it.

Michelle:

I guess one thing is I cannot think of anything that I want them to do that will be against their will. Another thing is Oh, no.

Connie Smith:

No. No. No. No. No.

Connie Smith:

No. No. We're not talking about against your will. But how are you going to give them the information so that they have an actual choice to make of whether to do this or not do this? Whether to understand this or not understand this.

Connie Smith:

If you're you come across this with everybody, everybody, every day. You're a teacher. How am I going to teach? What am I going to need to do in order to make sure that this person receives the teaching that I want them to receive to the point that they can do whatever I'm, that they have control of it to go do. Now they can choose not to do it, but my job is that it's my job to do what I need to do to remove any static that prohibits them from understanding what I'm saying.

Michelle:

What if from my experience, whatever I suggested, they always approve?

Connie Smith:

Isn't that wonderful? Well, then if that's your experience, then you're you're good to go. And you don't need this material. You already are are doing everything just right. And if you present to somebody who wants it in a story form and you present it in a list form, they've got it all because you're such a good storyteller that they understand it right there.

Michelle:

No. I'm not sure if I didn't get the homework or it's not the right person to practice on

Connie Smith:

for that. Okay. Then choose somebody make it anonymous. Just learn this do this by the profile. Do this by the profile.

Connie Smith:

Choose another person. Now that's hard to do. That's hard to do because you've got the background of knowing things about this person. But take your profile and this other profile and the and your profile. So you have this this this profile of the 2 of you together.

Connie Smith:

And this is, a person who has what would be a simple one, that you want to teach Or maybe forgiveness too. Forgiveness too.

Cindy:

Or maybe I think that this would be this is useful in times where there's conflict. Yes. This is not just about teaching to the other person. This is understanding why don't I get along with this person, or why can't I see their point of view? Why can't they see my point of view?

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Cindy:

So even if you're not in a teaching situation per se,

Connie Smith:

but you're You're just trying to find a a way

Cindy:

Yeah. You're just trying to find a way to be able to work with the person who you don't really wanna work with.

Connie Smith:

Okay. That's another very good illustration.

Mike Banker:

Or or a person that doesn't really wanna work with you. Yeah. It can go both ways.

Cindy:

Yeah. Or somebody who doesn't wanna work with you. Why try to understand where that person is coming from.

Connie Smith:

For, another, for instance, that you might choose is, somebody who feels that you intimidate them. Alright? I've been doing things. I've had that accusation thrown at me, and I've received it. So then the analysis is why would they consider me intimidating when I'm coming at this out of a open heart of love, really?

Connie Smith:

So why am I intimidating? Well, more than likely, I'm coming across to the

Mike Banker:

To dichotomous.

Connie Smith:

To,

Cindy:

directive

Mike Banker:

To directive. Oh, okay.

Connie Smith:

Or to or because I've been I'm coming at them, to selective, and they are more directive. And, no. That wouldn't be a case, but the other way around. Where I'm coming across too dictatorially or too die too dichotomistically or too holistically. No.

Connie Smith:

That it's more the the problem is is is to is that the person is more left sided, and I'm coming across more when you're looking at your page, I'm the person is more left sided and right sided, and I'm more left sided, coming across more left sided. Then there's going to be that would mean that I'm coming they would might because of whatever else is going on in their life or because of their orientation, they find me, too big to try. I have one, one person that told me that they felt I was I was really intimidating, and they really couldn't learn from me. So I took that to heart, and I be work to become, even though it was not it's not even in anyway, I became more more towards the middle. More towards the middle.

Connie Smith:

Okay, Stone. Bye bye.

Mike Banker:

Stone's got a headache.

Stone:

Yeah. I probably need to hit get get to the bed. Otherwise, my heart started to ache.

Connie Smith:

Well, we don't want to have a heartache, so you will be in the. Blessings on your night.

Stone:

Thank you. See you tomorrow.

Connie Smith:

K. Bye bye. Love you.

Vivian:

Well, actually, how I understand, what Connie says, you know, it's, no. It's like, Paul, you know, in the scripture. He say, for though I'm free from all, I have made myself a servant to all. That I might weigh more of them. This is talking about gospel.

Vivian:

But I think when working with people, you know, with family members, with son, you know, with husband, and with teammates, and with leaders, you know, to the Jews, I became a Jew in order to win Jews. You know, if to replace the terms that we are talking about, like dichotomy or homeless. And because when when we are working with people who are different from us, thinking differently, seeing things differently, or feeling things differently, I I I don't know for you guys. For me, without knowing this, you know, can easily, like, oh, these people are so difficult. Why they're so judgmental?

Vivian:

Oh, why they're caring about time so much? Or why why this and that. In a word, it's why they're different from me. But I think knowing this, it's kinda, like, very informative and also knowledgeable to know, okay, they're not it's not like I'm better or they are good or I'm bad or whatsoever. It's just different, you know, to know the different shape.

Vivian:

If they come in like a triangle if I come in with a round shape, you're gonna wrap. You're gonna sharpen. But if I come oh, I know they are triangle. I must change my hand shape to be a triangle shape so that we can feel in a little bit more. Or, you know, it's kinda like we can be flexible.

Connie Smith:

This is what I understand. Absolutely right. And in the illustration, I gave, at some point in this, was my British friend who wanted to know what time to come to dinner. Well, I'm you know, it's an I don't care what time you come. You can come at 4 o'clock if you want.

Connie Smith:

We can spend time chatting and so on. Well, she wanna know what time. And so what I learned when I watched out the peek hole in the door, when I heard the elevator come up, I looked out the door, and I finally said to her because, you know, not me changing, but me adapting to what I felt she needed, I said, how about 6 o'clock? Not 6:0:5. It's 6 o'clock.

Connie Smith:

And I heard her come up in the elevator, so I peeked out the cold just to see what she would do. And literally, she stood there watching her walk, hand up, waiting for her watch to say 6 o'clock. And when it did, she knocked on the door. Oh. So what I learned from all of that was to never say come on over tomorrow evening.

Mike Banker:

Needs a time. A precise time.

Connie Smith:

To her, is tomorrow at 4 o'clock good for you?

Mike Banker:

So so, Connie, I'm thinking of my case. And, so okay. So I'm thinking this through and say, okay. Well, don't be so wordy. Don't talk so long.

Connie Smith:

Oh, now that's that's my husband.

Mike Banker:

So don't be so because the person that I'm, communicating to is more time oriented than I am. So keep it short and sweet is my note. Another one is more holistic than me. So before I jump into any details, give them a summary first Yep. For the thing I want.

Mike Banker:

And, then don't get too detailed. He doesn't wanna get dragged down in the details, so don't don't go too deep. And don't be too formal. He's quite he's more even more casual than I am, so, don't make it into some sort of formal PowerPoint presentation. Make it keep it more simple.

Mike Banker:

And then, he likes credentials, so presents Richard's credential, the guy behind all of this, this PR stuff. Mhmm. But then I thought, I don't think any of this is gonna make any difference because because we have this stuff from the past, this conflict from the past that mocks it all up. So, yeah, so I can make I can adjust to these things, and, it feels like salesmanship, actually, is what it feels like to me, though, coming out of the business world. That's how this feels.

Mike Banker:

But

Connie Smith:

Right. Let me give you some excellent examples excellent examples of how this can be used. Richard was asked one time to go to Liberian, and I already talked about that about why we were there, and he was there with with, some expats. Well, they're Americans even though, the chief guy that was there was an American. But, ethnically

Mike Banker:

So, Connie, just to interrupt you for a second. Connie is so holistic. He has to answer everything with the with the, story. Okay. Go ahead.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So one of these guys from America, is Chinese. Not that that has anything to do with this story, except he was also a a China and an engineer. So you can already kinda see where he is. But so, anyway, Richard is coming from another oh, I we were in Spain, I think, at that time, and he was meeting them all in Liberia.

Connie Smith:

So there were 4 or 5 of them. And,

Vivian:

so this fellow

Connie Smith:

is calling Joe. I can't think of his name right now. Not ridiculous. Anyway, so the first thing Richard asked was what is the dress code for this country? Because some of the people that were involved here were expats that had lived in the country.

Connie Smith:

Oh, it's very casual. Well, Liberia is hot. So Richard shows up with a suitcase full of shorts and T shirts and very casual. K? As he got off of the plane out there greeting him were the 3, were 3 bishops dressed in 3 piece suits, which meant the vest, the tie, the whole thing, particular kind of hat.

Connie Smith:

And there was not a one of the whole lot that were there to greet him of the nationals that were not dressed in noncasual clothes. So the first thing Richard did he's very, he's not impressed by clothes. Okay? He didn't even take a suit with him. So the first thing he did when he got there, when he got to the the room, was to go to the marketplace, and now you can imagine, anyway, to buy a suit.

Connie Smith:

First thing he did was to buy a suit because people in charge, leaders, wear suits in that culture. Now this had nothing to do with having to change anything, but it did have to do with if he was going to be seen as a legitimate professional person who had the right to to do this, to be this mediator or whatever, then he had to dress the part, being all things to all men in order to be heard. Okay. Another thing, same same case. We're trying to broker this deal between this church in the States and a Bible school set up in Liberia.

Connie Smith:

Now this, in the end, never took place because a war took place instead, but this brokering, and Richard was there as the guy in the middle. Another thing at that same place. He was going to a meeting. No. There was a meeting that was to start.

Connie Smith:

And the the the all the participates participants in this negotiation were walking to the meeting place together. But the Liberian bishops were walking ahead. And at every person, they stopped and greeted and talked about, the family, and you do all the things that you normally would do being from a very event culture. Okay? So, Joe, he's just looking in his watch and he's stamping his feet and he's you know, he's just having a hissy fit because they're, oh, they'll be late for this meeting.

Connie Smith:

Well, all the people that were there were in the meeting. According to, the culture, according to the their orientation, all of this was taking place as part of this meeting. And Joe's conclusion, coming from a very time oriented orientation and dichotomistic, His conclusion was, well, when this bible school gets started and these bishops become more mature in the Lord, they will be on time. That's a non adapter. Okay?

Connie Smith:

Of course, the other funny thing was is that the one who was going to come to be the bible teacher in this bible school being supported by the church at in the States, the one that was going to come was a young man. And Richard, at that point, was he he drink he had a multicolored beard, but he was obviously much older than this other fellow. And so they kept addressing things and questions to Richard, being an older person, as if he was going to be the director. And when they were finally told that, no. It wasn't going to be Tim, Tim Brannigan.

Connie Smith:

Okay? Wasn't going to be Tim that was there. Yeah. Another PR person and, oh, he's everything. Beautiful, beautiful man of god.

Connie Smith:

But, anyway, they didn't want him. They wanted Richard because Richard had the age on him. Okay? Didn't matter the credentials. But while Richard is giving his credentials to another group of people, there, leaders of of some kind, they were more, status

Mike Banker:

earned. Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

And so Richard laid out all of his detail, all of his credentials, his years of experience, his education. He flaunted his or he mentioned the different degrees he had. He mentioned it this, all the articles that he had written, the book at that time, he didn't have any books written, but, all the articles, the scientific articles he'd written, all the the Bible translation that had been done and blah, blah, blah, blah. And he was called aside by Joe and said, I am appalled at what you said, that you would stand up there and brag like that.

Cindy:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

And Richard explained, I wasn't bragging. I was establishing my right to be heard. Mhmm. Yeah. Was if he had not done that, then he'd just been another old guy with words to say, and we don't have to listen to.

Connie Smith:

But, wow, they with all of this, man, you've earned the right to speak. And, oh goodness, they at the end of that time, They presented him with gifts, and you always have to take a gift home to your wife. So they presented him with a gift for me. And this lady stood I I can't imagine Richard is taking this, knowing his profile, but he stood there and, actually, face to face with this woman, you know, very close to him, maintaining eye contact as she sang to him. And if you don't know Richard, he would have just been ripped his toes to the top of his head, but he knew that this was a great honor.

Connie Smith:

K? And so he simply put on his big boy pants and stood and did the appropriate thing because he knew Mhmm. That he could've that he needed to adapt to this. Yes.

Mike Banker:

You sure he wasn't just frozen?

Connie Smith:

Well, that could be true. My husband was very, very careful in very many things.

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Cindy:

It sounded like Richard really knew how to or both of you really knew how to adapt, according to the situation. And I think that that's where this is really useful because wherever there is a gap between where we are and where they are, we

Connie Smith:

have to close the gap

Cindy:

in order to be received in a way order to be received. So I see this as, for me and my son, closing the gap between how I make him feel because people, when they don't feel right, if they feel that, you know okay. So I'll I'll just give my profile now or or my my assignment I mean, what we were supposed to do now. Okay. So I'm a time person.

Cindy:

He is event. I need to adjust and give him more time to process as a dichotomous person.

Connie Smith:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Cindy:

Yep. So this is because in the past okay. So I'll learning from my mistakes. In the past, because I am time, and I want him to get it now. Like, why can't you excuse me.

Cindy:

Why can't you understand the importance of this now and to get something going, like, don't take forever. Because time is passing, you're losing opportunity. So because I've failed to understand that he is a dichotomous person and that it takes a dichotomous person needs to and a selective person in the way he receives, I need to give him time and choices. And so this is my adjustment. My I need to adjust and rather than insist on this time needs to be done in this time.

Cindy:

I mean, granted, it should be because then he ends up in trouble. But as a, as a holistic person and me what am I? Oh. Oh, yeah. I am, okay.

Cindy:

So he is he is both, dichotomy, like, where he needs to fit everything in, in order to process. But as a the way he expresses himself is actually a whole whole holistic person holism. He has a holism. So to marry those 2, which are kind of and then me being a who am I? I'm a a a dichotomous person.

Cindy:

I I mean, as well. I can understand that now that I know that he needs to process, but he processes as a holistic, selective, casual person. And with those holistic, selective, casual, it's slower. Yeah. At the end of the time, it's just slower.

Cindy:

So Yeah.

Mike Banker:

He's so much like he's so much like he's one.

Cindy:

My mind around the time event because with those, he it's slower. And I I just noticed, like, man, the guy is, like, slower than molasses. Like, why does it take forever for him to understand? Like, the steps are so incredibly clear to me and also to Scott. Like, we know okay.

Cindy:

And this has to do with experience as well. So I have to grant him that he's young and I'm older. I have much more, as you said, Connie, I have much more categories for to drop my dichotomous information in I mean, whatever information into it. So so as a dichotomous person, I'm able to process faster through experience and through making a lot of dumb mistakes. So and so I also to need to adjust in terms of, the fact that he you know, I am give you know, I'm in the middle between given and earned.

Cindy:

And so because he values relationship a lot, and so do I, but he's also very individual as well. So he's half and half relationship and individual. I and but he's really earned. I need to adjust by affirming his what he has accomplished. Because for him, status earned is so important.

Cindy:

So I have to in terms of helping him feel, that he is accepted, I need to adjust and give more praises

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

To But not not not plain empty compliments.

Cindy:

No. No. Just no. But, really, he's earned it. Yeah.

Cindy:

Not to just, you know, stroke him, but actually to really acknowledge more what he has earned so that he can be in the frame of mind, to accept what I'm trying to say to him. So I have to understand that it is how I make him feel, because I find that with people, it's how they feel when they feel that you are safe and that they're not being judged, that is where they are the most receptive. And so I have to bring them to a place of safety in order to for the for me to be heard, that they, you know, are accepted for their orientations, not judged,

Connie Smith:

and that's it. Yep. The person who can empathize with the other person can come from either side of the continuum. That's a choice.

Cindy:

Yeah. So this is a choice.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm.

Cindy:

It's a we either choose to adapt and choose to close the gap or we insist that that we're right, and then we make a judgment

Connie Smith:

Yeah. By doing so. Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. We don't have to choose what comes naturally. We have to choose what doesn't. So that but that that's that gap you're talking about. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Quite quite quite a good analysis of that. Alright. Anybody else, have more questions? Or,

Mike Banker:

I I have a question.

Connie Smith:

Yes, sir.

Mike Banker:

My person, I feel, like, too squishy.

Cindy:

What does that mean?

Connie Smith:

They need to go to the gym.

Mike Banker:

Maybe it's no. No. Actually, opposite of that. But I don't know if it's they're too selective or they're too well, okay. I'm just gonna say it.

Mike Banker:

I've some are too squishy. They don't seem to have very they're not very firm. Squishy. They're not it's it's all about what you say, what you feel or and, doctor Lee, it's squishy. It's all squishy, and and that bothers me, actually.

Mike Banker:

I guess that's that dichotomous and holistic thing. Just too squishy. They they never they don't have strong con they're And too open. Too too open. That's I don't know.

Mike Banker:

They're on sand. That's how it feels to me. There's a great judgment. They're just too squishy. I don't know how else to describe it.

Mike Banker:

They don't there's not enough in what they believe or in what they

Connie Smith:

Let's put it this way, that they are too tolerant.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Every window glows gives them a different way to go or what to believe. Is that what you mean?

Mike Banker:

Yes. That is what I mean.

Connie Smith:

And their beliefs are not strong enough to stand on. So they're they don't even stand on what they believe. They are easily persuaded to do the next new thing or new piece of information. Anyway

Mike Banker:

Okay. Thank you.

Vivian:

Yeah. Well, I do have question, but I think I might keep it next time because I might need to get off, soon. But I think, yeah, I think this this is very good. I I hear Cindy sharing. I think it's it's it's deep.

Vivian:

You know? It's like, I I feel you. You know? Sometimes I feel like, yes. You know?

Vivian:

Why why why don't you, you know, do this? But, basically, when I look at all these profiles and continuum, then it feels like, okay. Yeah. Like, we are all created differently. You know, even, you know, our preference of time, you know, event, and and dichotomy and holism, you know, all these continuum, it's like, yeah, we are different.

Vivian:

We we are yeah. We're different. But sometimes, I think for me, it's when I'm at this side, I might, I don't know, use the word can be judgmental or intolerant of the things that is that the people who are that side. Because for me, if I only see, oh, the event is important, you know, right now and being with the people and just enjoying the person now is important. But, actually, of course, you know, we have blind spot.

Vivian:

Right? If I only see when I handed this, I only see the pawn. I don't see the back. But, actually, the other side of people, they see the back.

Cindy:

Mhmm.

Vivian:

So then I might say, oh, I see, you know, this, but why don't you see it? But, actually, they said, no. I see this. So I think this is very good, to to keep this in mind. It's also a good tool to learn to love, you know, work together.

Connie Smith:

And That's not on a continuum, by the way. That's a given.

Mike Banker:

Love is a given. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. But that is why we try so hard to get them to do what we what whatever it is that we're trying to communicate.

Michelle:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So go to bed, girl.

Vivian:

Okay. Yeah. I'll get off

Mike Banker:

now. Good

Connie Smith:

night. Bye bye. Have a good day.

Mike Banker:

Nice, Vivian.

Cindy:

Bye. Good night. Good night.

Mike Banker:

I love you. The bed outside. No. Not this time. Good night.

Mike Banker:

That's a story for a different time.

Connie Smith:

Carmen, is this, helping you out of the dilemma that you expressed earlier? This discussion of what we mean or what what is,

Michelle:

The homework thing?

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Cindy:

I mean,

Michelle:

how to work with this person. I cannot think of I I may need a different person to think of, like, someone difficult Okay.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Alright. So quickly make up somebody or find somebody else. Do so. Figure out some way that you can do the assignment because we're going to be continuing all along with manipulating these profiles.

Mike Banker:

Okay? Manipulating our profile. What is that? Yeah. Versus what I normally do is try

Connie Smith:

to We cannot manipulate the other guy's profile. Oh, you can.

Mike Banker:

We I tried for years. You know?

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Look how successful you were.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Any other questions or comments?

Cindy:

I found this actually quite useful in terms of, helping me to understand my son better.

Donna:

Mhmm.

Cindy:

And as even though I was you know, I explained to you what I just explained to you. I mean, that's here. Now I have to get it here.

Connie Smith:

Oh, yes. And but that comes with experience and being willing to adapt, being in charge of of of yourself.

Cindy:

Yeah. So, I mean, I think this would be interesting to do, with others who I may find it difficult to work with or who I yeah, not understand where in the world are they coming

Connie Smith:

from. Right.

Cindy:

Like, I just don't get who they are. Right? Mhmm. Really, I I might not have to work with them, but, I just don't really get why they are that way. And so, for so for me not to judge them as I think this is a good tool to help us not to judge people.

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Certainly.

Connie Smith:

But remember, when you are a safe helper and you're sitting there and you're listening to people either tell you what horrible things they've done or horrible things that have happened to them, that even though we need to be empathetic and all of that, how they tell you, you may you may have to pull the information out of someone who is more careful then you would have to you you'd might have to stop someone who's more who's more casual and more event.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Continuing the story when you're just trying to take the the history. And you just say, no. Just I've got their name down here now, and I've indicated which category we're gonna deal with it in. And I I don't want any more information.

Connie Smith:

Now you have to be careful to a careful person to, yes, to a careful person and a, selective no. A directed person no. Selective that you are not stopping them from doing something that they need to do to be comfortable doing it, doing the assignment or talking about or doing what you want him to do. All we want is the is the history here. Too many details.

Connie Smith:

We we do do not want here. So you need you need to adapt to whether the person has to tell that or that you can let them go to a piece. So you can say, well, you know, we can go this far, but I don't want any more information because it is not good for you. Right. We will hear the whole story.

Connie Smith:

We'll hear everything you wanna hear about it. I want me to hear about it in its time. So I've written it down here so we it doesn't get lost.

Mike Banker:

So over the years, there's been some people suggested that we have some sort of form they fill out, you know, before we meet with them. But I think, I think that the the intake, that initial personal history part, I think you could actually, at the end of that, probably take an and and begin a profile on them. Yes. I think that's really useful for building I've always said it's very useful for building rapport, but it just occurs to me that we could actually get a feel for them and their their profile through that initial intake. But I am I am against the forms thing.

Mike Banker:

I I just don't think it's useful.

Connie Smith:

We we have never allowed that from the beginning of this.

Mike Banker:

But it's a pretty common, thing

Connie Smith:

in Absolutely.

Mike Banker:

It is. But it's not

Connie Smith:

very common. You know? Yeah. I've been asked the question many, many times. But will you send me the form to fill out so I can Because label my problems for you?

Mike Banker:

Yeah. It's

Connie Smith:

just form are you talking about? What? What? Or what what? We're not

Cindy:

talking about

Mike Banker:

talking about, intake form. Like, Okay.

Cindy:

Intake. Okay. Before, yeah, before they meet

Mike Banker:

with you. Yeah.

Cindy:

Okay. I have a question then. Okay. Do you feel that you know, because because we filled out this this questionnaire not form. We filled out this questionnaire before we actually had the class.

Cindy:

We have to teach

Connie Smith:

it, and that was on purpose. Okay. Yes.

Cindy:

On purpose. Okay. So so if that's the case, do you think that it would be, like, useful in terms of I'm thinking about pre field. Like, when you're trying to work with before you send them out on the field.

Connie Smith:

Oh. Do you Absolutely.

Cindy:

Can I would I I mean, would I is that okay, Connie? Would I be able to can I? Because I would like to. Because this would really help me be able to know what they value, like, where their orientation is.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So Yeah. You may you may also use your own set of questions depending on who it is you're you're getting them to do. But the reason that we do this, before you you know what it's about is because you get a more realistic, place, where they are because after the teaching, you can already see. Well well, that that's why I messed with my number here is because I really am on that side, but I'm I'm further to I'm further towards the center than I am to the extreme on there.

Connie Smith:

Once you have all of this knowledge and then you fill it out, well, now you're working out of out of what you know, not out of which field. And that's not a true evaluation of where you are.

Cindy:

Right. So when you're filling out the questionnaire, you're doing it based off yeah. You're not fudging your answer.

Connie Smith:

You're not Right. Yeah.

Cindy:

You're not fudging if you guys, oh, that sounds better. And I you know? Because Yeah. Oh, I think I might

Connie Smith:

Maybe they're fudging. Diagnostic net.

Mike Banker:

I don't know. How careful are they? Maybe they're fudging.

Cindy:

Find out. Oh, you're

Connie Smith:

gonna show him the like, not that. But now you have this tool, and I I hope you all recognize that it is a really useful tool. And if I need to practice using it, then please do so. If there's anything, I can I need to change in my presentation, you can, because you're not getting me? Well, tell me where you are on the profile and then ask me to explain it to you with that in mind.

Connie Smith:

And now I would not do this with everybody. I'm talking to this group. I feel that this group is trainers of trainers. Okay? This is not just any safe helper.

Connie Smith:

This is the safe helper who's going to use this not just for that person's sake, but you're going to, in this, begin to train the hurting one, who is now the healed one, to pass that on, to pass their knowledge on. And and talking about PR is what I'm talking about.

Cindy:

So okay. Let's just say because this I I see this as, just a tool,

Connie Smith:

so it can be tweaked.

Cindy:

This Okay. This tool. Because like Carmen said, you know, maybe some of the things some of the questions can be more culturally appropriate.

Connie Smith:

Yes. Okay. And believe me. Let me let me just say this. Both prayer resolution and basic motivations are tools.

Connie Smith:

Any illustration that is not going to be acceptable to the audience Mhmm. Please change and make it culturally or personal. Yeah. Illustration.

Mike Banker:

Context. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Context. Whatever. Yeah. Do what you need to do to communicate it. Right.

Connie Smith:

So Or you have free reign to

Cindy:

do that. Okay. So my question is outside of PR Yeah. Okay. In terms of, member care

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Cindy:

In terms of mobilization

Mike Banker:

Yep.

Cindy:

I can see where this is can be used, in terms of just self awareness for people. Okay. Like, with people who are already out on the field, I I just think that this would be a good thing to tool to present to help people even, like you said, you in, at the very beginning, it was a couple who were planning on getting a divorce, another couple hate each other, and blah blah blah. Okay. So you said that after they learned this, they were able to, well, at least that one couple was able to understand each other better, therefore, accept I mean, accept each other more because they understood their, spouse better.

Cindy:

It is not

Connie Smith:

that they were bad. They were just a different orientated.

Cindy:

Just okay. This yeah. Exactly. So I'm just thinking, like, for those who are, you know this could be used just for self awareness for for both parties so that they can understand each other and, in their marriage or understand as parent to child or understand you know? So I'm just thinking with even outside of, PR

Connie Smith:

Oh, absolutely.

Cindy:

Do I have permission to use this?

Connie Smith:

Remember, this was not developed for PR. This was developed probably 20 years. At least 15 years. No. It was it was closer to 20 years long before PR was ever thought of.

Cindy:

Okay. Yeah. I mean, because I really think that this is a good teaching for cross cultural

Mike Banker:

Yes.

Connie Smith:

Communication. And that cross cultural. Remember, any marriage remember remember remember. Any marriage is a cross cultural. Yes.

Connie Smith:

Because you each came from different

Mike Banker:

Families. Different

Connie Smith:

cultural, families of origin.

Cindy:

Yeah. And I think that even working on a team

Connie Smith:

Oh, yes.

Cindy:

Or, yeah. Team building. This could be used for team building because the closer you work together, it's just it's not like I mean, it's not as close as a marriage. But because the relationship gets closer, then there's the chances of misunderstanding happen more.

Connie Smith:

But I I So

Mike Banker:

I think, though, that, let's not I don't think it's possible to just consume videos of this training and say, okay. I got it. I don't think there needs this discussion we're having and so on. It's such a important piece. And so there needs to be a trainer, not just a video.

Mike Banker:

You know, people can watch a piece of Connie's training and, like, the first, continuum, but they need to talk with somebody after that. Somebody that's that's, talked with others before too. And so this is the process. That's why you guys are the trainers. We're we're trainers.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. So we don't wanna just have them watch videos. No. It's not enough. You will

Connie Smith:

never get this just watching the videos. You will never get this just reading the the printed part of it. Syllabus.

Mike Banker:

You never

Connie Smith:

get it. You will only get it as you're able to ask and interact Requires

Mike Banker:

actually, you got it.

Connie Smith:

And practice Yeah. The big yeah. The the So you may get

Cindy:

it Mongolian and to get it into Chinese. Now that is the real big project because

Connie Smith:

A very big project because most of your translators are going to want to translate all of the illustrations

Cindy:

that are

Connie Smith:

in the book. Okay? When the illustrations should come from the Mongolian culture. Right.

Cindy:

So how do we do this?

Mike Banker:

Well, I think, from my experience doing PR in China, I would say is you start with what you got Yeah. And then you start swapping out your illustrations or your examples, your stories with better ones, ones that are more culturally significant or meaningful

Connie Smith:

Right. As

Mike Banker:

time goes on. But you can start with you know, you probably might exclude some of these stories because they don't would make any sense. But but you start with what you have and you and you add as you go. You replace. You swap out until it becomes better and better contextualized.

Connie Smith:

So that the the, the object of these of the illustration is to help you get the underlying principal or points.

Mike Banker:

Yep. Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

So first of all, you have to get that. Okay? Once you have that, then you you as the English speaking teacher of this or heading up the pro the translation program, you can say, okay. Well, there's this this when I talked about the bishop and the dress code and all of those illustrations, you will have like things that the people you're talking to will have experienced. So you will you will begin to as you help them understand and hear their kind of of illustrations that they're giving you off the cuff, that's how you begin to tweak this so that it fits more culturally.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. Whatever culture. You yeah.

Cindy:

I I mean, I do believe that, you know, definitely, like, contextualization or whatever culturally. But I also do, also do really do believe like, for example, we all come from various different backgrounds here. Mhmm. Alright. But the way you presented it was not for the Chinese context, for the American context, for the Canadian because you can't do that, in when you have a multi dive when you have a diverse cultural group.

Cindy:

So, however, what I I mean, in this teaching, what I'm seeing is or benefiting from is or maybe it's because I grew up in the States and anyway.

Mike Banker:

You're very interesting mix, Sandy.

Connie Smith:

Yes. Yeah.

Cindy:

All mixed up. So but I've learned a lot because I feel that there are some universal principles or principles that

Connie Smith:

are cut across cultural Absolutely.

Cindy:

And so this is why even though yeah. I agree. Swap out the stories, put more more Mongolian, put more Chinese in. But sometimes when you're, but sometimes even using yours. Like, I'm planning on

Connie Smith:

because I

Cindy:

have to give a talk up in Mongolia. I can't get this whole course, but I'm taking bits and pieces out of it that, Connie, some of your examples. And I know because it is it cuts across culture that the principal is there, that they can capture the principal.

Connie Smith:

Right. And it's but it's up to you to be able to give them how they would it's up to you to get make it capturable. Right.

Cindy:

Okay.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. That's a good way to put it. So, Cindy, just in general, I would I would not try to teach Mongolian missionary candidates and Chinese missionary candidates together at the same time.

Cindy:

Yeah. No.

Mike Banker:

Basic motivate. I would separate those 2 because there's a lot of dynamics in the class that get messed up when you throw them together. Yeah.

Cindy:

Yeah. No. No. That's that's not gonna happen again because it's just too complicated for the translation. And so here we have to do it because we had to go No.

Cindy:

She translation. So that's why what you got I hope Gaha, is anyway. So because she has been my translator. And,

Connie Smith:

and she the thing with Gala is that she has really grasped the idea that we do not need to stick to the words as carefully as you would if you were translating, say, scripture.

Mike Banker:

Yep.

Connie Smith:

That this is not scripture. But this we want even scripture to be

Mike Banker:

Understood.

Connie Smith:

Relevant, and you can't quite do that. I remember in in Ethiopia, one of the, one of the translators was off checking, James, and this is during the time of war and persecution and stuff going on at that time in Ethiopia. And, all the things that so she got on the bus to go back to her homeland, and she herself is a very casual person. So she as they have this 2 hour bus ride, she stands up in the bus and says, okay. While we're riding on this bus with nothing else to do, May I read you some some things that we've translated and, give me your feedback?

Connie Smith:

So sure. Sure. So the, so that was one check she did. As she was walking along the field, road one day, she saw some women out in the field. And this was a little later a little later check, but she said, oh, can I come and help you?

Connie Smith:

And if I help you when we're finished, could I read some things to you that I'm translating from the Bible? No. That I'm translating. And, have you listened to me? So can I help you?

Connie Smith:

And when we're finished with your job, then would you just listen to me? And the reaction was, which one of you wrote that? Who who here wrote that? That was written just just about our experiences here right now. Now you've got something that's been translated to the point that it's culturally relevant.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Vivian:

Linguistically,

Connie Smith:

it spoke to their heart. And they really felt that that was written just by somebody today.

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

Now that's how a good translation translates.

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

That the person on the other side receives what the original author or the original speaker was trying to communicate at the emotional level.

Mike Banker:

So, Cindy, there was a a big battle with some pastors in Beijing because we were doing the forgiveness book and decided the title, and they wanted this kind of, formal kind of title. But the title that I like best was. Why in the world would you forgive?

Connie Smith:

I like it. A little German.

Mike Banker:

Anyway, it's pretty colloquial, but, it more than

Cindy:

hilarious. I find that's hilarious.

Mike Banker:

Christians would pick that work up, not just the pastors.

Cindy:

Yeah. No. Really. Non Christians would pick that up.

Connie Smith:

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. That is.

Mike Banker:

That is.

Connie Smith:

It's just like the title, who do you think you are?

Mike Banker:

Now

Connie Smith:

you can do a million things with that. They did a whole TV program here. Yeah. It's people who are, celebrities who are seeking out their family history. Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

So the intonation when you ask that would be different than who do you think you are.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. If I if I were Gala, I would get, you know, Ad?

Cindy:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

I'd get Ad involved in translation because she loves to go, talk to women in the middle of nowhere and would would do exactly that. Just work with them and ask them about the translation. She'd be a great person to do that.

Cindy:

Yeah. That that this this will be a a big challenge to find somebody to

Connie Smith:

So I think that she

Mike Banker:

I think if she went through this training, you'd have somebody to do it. That's my problem.

Connie Smith:

But, anyway, so what the the the exercises that we're doing Because the next exercise that we do is we're going to switch you're going to become the other guy. You're going to take on their their profile and your profile your old profile, the one you're have today, is going to be the profile of of that person. Okay?

Cindy:

And so then the goal is for me as that other

Connie Smith:

Yeah. From this as if I'm this way, then what would I need to do if that person is like I am? Okay.

Cindy:

So how would I adjust given my new profile? My profile And

Connie Smith:

your new profile is, in this case, would be that of your son's. So Yeah. How would I if I had that profile and my son had my profile Mhmm. How would I relate to him?

Mike Banker:

So you get to walk a mile in his shoes. Wow. That's good.

Michelle:

So, Connie, are you looking for specific situation, or are you looking at, what might share kind of in a general

Connie Smith:

What I'm looking for is if you're trying and it helps if you pick something that you're trying to to do. In in in Cindy's place, she's picked her son whom the goal is to live in harmony with him.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Really?

Michelle:

With my son's situation, we have great great relationship. So there's I know he's different from me in many ways, but, so should I choose someone

Connie Smith:

Is your profile is your profile the same as yours? No. They are not. Then areas that I have. The first the first error first assignment is to find out how would you go about, working, doing whatever

Michelle:

Mhmm. So, like, this this is

Michelle:

with your

Connie Smith:

son. Okay. Okay. That's that was the assignment we just are working on here. Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. Okay. For instance, I wanna get this, if if you're talking about, somebody being, fine. Well, the goal here is to get everybody to church before church is over. And the the first thing is that, my my spouse is time, and I'm event.

Connie Smith:

Now our struggle is always going to be as every Sunday morning, I end up being the one that causes us to be late. This upsets him. He's not angry with me, but he's really upset. And it makes me feel terrible that I'm always late, or I always make him late. Whatever.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So I'm the one that that's doing the the work. So how am I as a as this person who is always late, how can I successfully relate to a harmonious getting to church on time with my husband who is so time? Alright? Now the next assignment is I'm the one that's time.

Connie Smith:

And it's my husband who is always late for us to we're late for everything, but we're late for getting to church on time. And this is so frustrating to me. How do I adapt to get us to church on time in a harmonious way so that we're not only on time, but we're in harmony when we get there?

Michelle:

K. So it's more like a specific choose a specific area.

Connie Smith:

Because you can't do everything. Right.

Michelle:

That's right.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Yeah. Cindy Cindy's explanation, explanation were were done in a more general thing, but she was very specific within it. And so so it worked, and it worked very well for us to follow what it was that she was going to have to do or not do in that situation. Okay?

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. But this, so choose a situation, and then how would you how would you work this? So not necessarily are we talking about my son and me, but me with this orientation and the other person with that orientation. How how do I because I have no control over the other guy. But how can I succeed in my goal of what I want that person to do?

Connie Smith:

I want them to learn this material. I want them to, to dress appropriately for this sit place I'm going we're going to. I want them to be on, for us to be on time for joint things

Donna:

or

Connie Smith:

for a meal or or whatever. Whatever. Whatever. Okay? If it's not working with the person, then leave off the person.

Connie Smith:

Cross that person out. You're working with your son. Cross cross person out and put somebody else that they have this profile. Okay?

Michelle:

Yeah. Cool. Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

Actually, just, a comment. So, Michelle, I I have a very specific thing I want to accomplish. I didn't mention what it was, though.

Connie Smith:

Right.

Mike Banker:

My my confidence my all of my thinking was related to that specific thing. That's how I got to those that list of things. So

Michelle:

Okay. Yeah. Because of what you shared was, like, general.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. It was very general, but it was at at the well, you know, I said he's this way, so I should do that. Mhmm. But I need to do it making a presentation to him about something that I want.

Michelle:

I see.

Mike Banker:

And so there that's what was in mind when I was making that lesson. Yeah. I don't know if I could yeah. Anyway.

Connie Smith:

It it's too hard to generalize. So you have to pick something in your mind.

Michelle:

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

That's why

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

The, the survey in the first place surveys are never good. Okay? Because surveys can't give you enough to choose from to choose the absolute. I get lots and lots and lots of political surveys and, like, 4 or 5 a day. Of course, the end product is that they want money.

Connie Smith:

They really probably don't even read what I wrote. But, anyway, my point is that there are some of the questions that I have just simply written on there won't answer question too ambiguous or too slanted. Not a not a good survey question. You know? Take it back to your experts and tell them that at least this old lady is not gonna answer that one because neither answer would be, none of the answers would be right.

Connie Smith:

So remember that the total survey, the total question about any one of the of the continuums is to place you generally to the left or generally to the right. Okay? That's all. You cannot be specific in a survey because questions cannot be specific enough to a survey of a general situation.

Mike Banker:

Connie, there's, in a lot of missionary training schools, they have other kinds of, surveys like, you know, Myers Briggs or something

Connie Smith:

like this. So Yeah.

Mike Banker:

How would you oh, we already have that. How would you handle that kind of comment?

Connie Smith:

We would say, good. How how have you found that to be of a help in the understanding of the Myers Briggs, which is a big one that everybody these days know? I don't think they even had it when we started out. But they had some tests we took that we turned out to be incompatible. Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Are you frozen? Like, she's frozen? Yeah. Come back, Connie. Come back.

Mike Banker:

There we are.

Connie Smith:

For time. I'm overtime. That's probably why I froze.

Mike Banker:

Probably. Yeah. Maybe that's it. I was yep. I It

Michelle:

was telling you.

Mike Banker:

Being a nightkeeper was K.

Connie Smith:

I've I lost the question now.

Mike Banker:

Oh, the Myers Briggs thing is

Connie Smith:

Oh, the Myers Briggs, I would say.

Mike Banker:

Not the animal.

Connie Smith:

That's the last thing. Has that helped you in the understanding of the situation? How has the understanding of that helped you to determine where the other person is coming from so that you can

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

And they said, well, I don't know. I never thought about it. Right. Well, okay.

Mike Banker:

That answers the question.

Connie Smith:

Tool, but it's not been a very useful tool unto you anymore than this one's gonna be useful to you.

Mike Banker:

Unless you use it.

Connie Smith:

Oh, use it.

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

You're not gonna use it if you don't understand it.

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Like I say, in those tests that come out red for leader and all of that, I always come out green. Richard always comes out red. And, yet I've led a lot of things. But the questions that they ask don't apply to me.

Connie Smith:

I don't seek to be I I I don't anyway, we're out of time.

Mike Banker:

So, Cindy, I don't know. This is not a thought, but this material is something you could actually teach online without much risk.

Connie Smith:

Yes. Yes.

Cindy:

Yeah. You could,

Michelle:

That's what

Cindy:

it is. It's totally this is so nonsensitive material.

Mike Banker:

So if there's time crunch on during the training school to do this full thing, you you might be better off just doing it online. But,

Connie Smith:

I believe that, that, doctor Mears he wasn't even doctor Mears when we knew him first. That doctor Mears thought this class that Richard, heard a part of, at a secular university.

Cindy:

No. I totally I can totally see that.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Now his application of it was related to his tribal work, and the books that have been written about it is off, relating to tribal work. Okay? And that's what we used it for. But we saw its value in whole cross cultural thing.

Connie Smith:

And this whole course that we taught in cross culture communication, the whole thing was based on this model. And their last paper that they did after a month's, independent study in the culture, was written, based off of this model. So we had a medical doctor, for instance, who took this course, and he observed, the culture for a month, with for a specific thing, and he came out with his determination of where these people were. And so his paper was on convincing, village leaders to take on this program, this medical program for their people. Wow.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Another one did a study on, what makes a friend. What makes a friend in this culture? What are their qualifications? And he owes used as his focus group, male university students.

Connie Smith:

And he was part of a network of university students. And he came out using this model that one of the criteria for judging who was a good friend is one that you have pointed out a fault to them because you cared for them that much even though it cost you their friendship. That meant that you were willing to take that risk. Very interesting. Very interesting.

Mike Banker:

So so, Cindy, every missionary should take 2 tools with them to the field. I bet you know what they are.

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Cindy:

Well, I think that, yeah. I mean, I'd like to incorporate this into the pre field training for both Mongolians and Chinese.

Connie Smith:

I mean I would be thrilled if you would use any of this to further God's kingdom of basic motivations or of or of, PR materials.

Cindy:

I'm gonna leave PR materials actually to to Carmen and to Gala.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. All I'm all I'm saying is that those two tools are of interest to me because they are 2 tools that we have found to help further the the kingdom. Now the power behind it all is God and the Holy Spirit and all of that. Okay. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Okay. But these are tools that we have found that really work. Okay? So anything anything that we have that furthers the kingdom of of God, I'm just happy for you to utilize. Thank you.

Connie Smith:

Thank you. K.

Michelle:

Okay. And I'm going to see you tonight too.

Connie Smith:

I'll tell you. If any doll say good night, I pass

Mike Banker:

it tonight. Yep. I think we're done.

Cindy:

K. Thank you. See you tomorrow. Alright.

Connie Smith:

Love you guys. Love you guys.