Georgina Moore: Author of The Garnett Girls

This week, Jack is joined by Georgina Moore. Georgina has worked in the publishing industry for 20 years and is an award-winning book publicist. It is no wonder that having spent her life immersed in the world of books that she has decided to put pen to paper and write one herself.

That book, the wonderful and absorbing The Garnett Girls follows three sisters Rachel, Imogen and Sasha and their relationship with their charismatic mother Margot. All families have their secrets and the Garnett girls are no exception.

Purchase The Garnett Girls here

(03:13) Georgina's childhood reading
(14:53) BookTok and younger readers
(19:20) Book buying during the cost of living crisis
(22:42) Georgina Moore's recent reads
(30:21) A book that changed Georgina's life
(40:56) The Garnett Girls

Welcome to Mostly Books Meets, a weekly podcast by the independent award-winning bookshop, Mostly Books. Nestled in the Oxfordshire town of Abingdon-on-Thames, Mostly Books has been spreading the joy of reading for fifteen years. Whether it’s a book, gift, or card you need the Mostly Books team is always on hand to help. Visit our website.

The podcast is produced and presented by Jack Wrighton and the team at Mostly Books. It is edited by Story Ninety-Four. Find us on Twitter @mostlyreading & Instagram @mostlybooks_shop.

Meet the host:
Jack Wrighton is a bookseller and social media manager at Mostly Books. His hobbies include photography and buying books at a quicker rate than he can read them.
Connect with Jack on Instagram

The Garnett Girls is published in the UK by Harper Collins

Books mentioned in this episode include:
Carrie Soto is Back by Taylor Jenkins Reid - ISBN: 9781529152128
Sense and Sensibility by Jane Austen - ISBN: 9780785253006
Mrs Wobble the Waitress by Allan Ahlberg - ISBN: 9780723275596
Anne of Green Gables by L.M. Montgomery - ISBN: 9780785252993
I Am, I Am, I Am by Maggie O'Farrell - ISBN: 9781472240767
Secret Loves of Church Ladies byDeesha Philyaw - ISBN: 9781911590699
Without Warning and Only Sometimes by Kit De Waal - ISBN: 9781472284839
Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte - ISBN: 9780141040387

To find more titles, visit our website

Creators & Guests

Host

Mostly Books

Award-winning indie bookshop in Abingdon, Oxfordshire.

What is Mostly Books Meets...?

Welcome to Mostly Books Meets, a podcast by the independent bookshop, Mostly Books. Booksellers from an award-winning indie bookshop chatting books and how they have shaped people's lives, with a whole bunch of people from the world of publishing - authors, poets, journalists and many more. Join us for the journey.

Jack Wrighton - 00:05
Welcome to Mostly Books Meets, the weekly podcast for the incurably bookish. We will be talking to authors and creatives from across the world of publishing and discussing the books they have loved. Looking for a recommendation? Then look no further. Head to your favourite cosy spot and let us pick out your next favourite book. On the podcast this week we have debut novelist Georgina Moore.

00:34
Georgina has worked in the publishing industry for 20 years and is an award winning book publicist. It is no wonder that having spent her life immersed in the world of books that she has decided to put pen to paper and write one herself. That book, the wonderful and absorbing The Garnettt Girls is published on the 16th of February 2023. The story follows three sisters Rachel, Imogen and Sasha and their relationship with their charismatic mother Margot. All families have their secrets and The Garnettt Girls are no exception. Georgina Moore, welcome to Mostly Books Meets.

Georgina Moore - 01:03
Oh Jack, thank you. What a lovely intro.
Jack Wrighton - 01:06
That's all right, my pleasure.

Georgina Moore - 01:08
That's one of the first times I've heard the intro so far, so it's a bit overwhelming.
Jack Wrighton - 01:11
Oh really, I mean it must be, you know, as someone who, you know, you're so sort of familiar with the industry I'm sure, but you know, this is your baby now, this is your book so it must be seeing things in a new light.

Georgina Moore - 01:25
It really is, what do they call it? They call it poacher turned gamekeeper, I think that's the expression.
Jack Wrighton - 01:29
Oh great.

Georgina Moore - 01:30
Yeah so people keep asking me about that, but yeah no I had an interview with the bookseller the other day and the interviewer I know really well because obviously I've sent lots of it you know authors to be interviewed by her and so we were just chatting, catching up and then she suddenly went, "I'm just going to put the tape recorder on now." and I was like, "Oh, oh." and then I did a lot of waffling Jack, and I suddenly thought to myself, "Oh, do I need media training?" Having media trained many, many authors. I kind of just, sort of went off on a tangent and she asked me things about the genesis of the book and I wrote the book in lockdown and I don't know about you, Jack, but I find that my memory of lockdown is so hazy and so things like the the genesis of so I was really struggling on that. So I was thinking, right, I need to be better prepared in future.
Jack Wrighton - 02:22
That's the whole thing that you know, when you're when you're in one position, it's kind of easy to be like, Oh, you need to do this, you need to do that. And then when you find yourself kind of like,

Georgina Moore - 02:31
I know! Oh, my goodness, like, what am I doing? But also, I just realised I'm so seeing things now from the author's point of view, because very often someone really annoying, like me, crops up on the phone and says to someone, look could you just write 2000 words for My Weekly or Good Housekeeping for a short story and think that it's just you know quite an easy thing to do and now people are asking me to do that and I'm like, that is quite a big deal to you know when you've written a novel but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to know how to write a short story for example or write a journalistic piece so I'm sort of now seeing things from the other side and realize how annoying I've been all these years.
Jack Wrighton - 03:13
Now on the podcast one thing we always love to do is talk to people about the books that they've loved, the books that have kind of shaped them and we always like to sort of start by going back to the past, going back to your childhood. What was that like for young Georgina and you know were you a reader or did reading come later on?

Georgina Moore - 03:35
Oh no I was always a reader. I look at my children now and I just, I feel very sad and sorry that there are so many other distractions that pull them away from reading because I didn't have any of that and I was properly bookish and I was thinking about the reading I did as a child and so many books are still so familiar to me. But I was wondering if that's because I revisited them all with my kids by reading them to them. So it's kind of that skew slightly. But I do really feel that I remember all the Janet and Alan Alberg books. So things like, when I came back to read to my children, Each Peach Pear Plum or Peepo or any of those, they just, I don't know whether it's sort of, it's something about the rhyming, isn't it?

04:20
And it's just in you and also the feeling you had at the end of Peepo when you suddenly get that shock. So I loved all those and there's one by the Albergs which I just was so desperate to go back to with my kids, which is Mrs. Wobble the Waitress, and it's just, it's absolutely brilliant. It's all about a waitress who's really bad. I think there was something about the chaotic Mrs. Wobble that really appealed to me and then the one probably that has one of the closest places in my heart is the Madeline books by Ludwig Bellomons, Bemelons… I don't actually know how I say his surname, but they are set in Paris and they're all about Madeline who goes to this sort of boarding school and they go out in pairs, they walk in pairs around Paris, and they've got the most beautiful drawings and they've made a film out of Madeline actually, she was always the naughty one. So she was always the one that would walk on on the sand, she'd walk on the bridge, and they'd be like, don't fall and she was always getting into adventures. And she just really staged me as a character.

5:20
So I couldn't wait to read it to Daisy and Sunny. So I love that and then all the usual really Peter Pan, I remember being read Peter Pan and just that feeling of putting yourself in Wendy's shoes in the room and wanting him to come and visit. I remember that distinctly. Also things like Winnie the Pooh and there was this book by Charles Kingsley that I had called The Water Babies and I've still got it. I must have a really old edition with beautiful watercolor paintings in it and it had the and the babies basically go underwater and they're like swimming underwater as if they're fish and I really remember that feeling of that magic from that book. So that gives you a kind of idea. But I mean, you know, I was one of those really, really fast readers. I always had a book on the go and it just didn't really stop from that point.
Jack Wrighton - 06:15
And how about in your teenage years? Because some people find a bit of a dip in their reading, or has that sort of love and desire to read sort of continued consistently?

Georgina Moore - 06:25
I never, yeah, it never stopped and I was really lucky. I mean, one of the absolutely formative kind of, I suppose it was pre-teen, was when I read Anne of Green Gables and I, you know, if you were going to ask me about a character who has inspired me and probably stays with me and maybe is a little bit in my writing, it would be Anne because I'm really interested and one of the things lots of early readers of The Garnetttt Girls have picked up on is that I do love a flawed character. I always get a bit worried when people tell me how flawed they think they are because I'm like, oh, what are you saying about my characters?

07:06
Anyway, but Anne is just the original and best flawed heroine and there's a lot of darkness there that she carries in a light way. You know, you think about actually she comes from an abusive background, she's penniless, she's an orphan, she's been treated abysmally, she's got no friends or family in the world when she's taken in by the Cuthberts and some of the past that's hinted at is really, really dark and yet somehow she has this incredible spirit to survive and find beauty in the outside world and in the beautiful Prince Edward Island and the settings of her life in Green Gables. But also she doesn't want to be dismissed. She's got this, you know, even when she's fighting with her nemesis Gilbert Blythe to be top of the class, it doesn't really, she's never, it never occurs to her that the way that people see her is just a girl and even then just a girl who's not that, I'm not pretty enough because she's got red hair and she's slightly different looking.

08:16
So but she just refuses to be pulled down by all that stuff around her about being a girl and being a redhead and she fights it with every inch of her spirit and you know, in many ways, she's one of the early feminist icons, definitely and the way she bosses it in all her exams, and, and she just refuses to fall for all his romanticism as well and just needs love on her own terms. So yeah, as you could tell, I probably tell from me ranting all about it, I absolutely loved it and the fact that she's so… you properly get her interior world and I think that's something I'm fascinated by as a reader and as a writer, really believing in that interior world and doing… so it's not written, Anne of Green Gables, from the first person but it in a way you are getting a first person experience from the interior world. So I just I remember that stayed with me a long, long time and my daughter, Daisy, who's about the right age to read it, I can tell she is intimidated by my great love for it, because she keeps saying to me, "Oh, do you think I'm, oh, I don't know whether I'm ready, because I think she feels that if she doesn't properly appreciate it, I'll be really disappointed." I'm really trying hard not to give her that vibe.

09:31
It's probably coming off me. But I just, yeah, and then I just read, I mean, I think there are eight or nine in this series, and I just read them all. So that was a big, big, big, big book for me at that sort of 10-11 and then I suppose I kind of went quite quickly into, you know, big books, big reading. I had a father who was very bookish and had an amazing collection of books. I was so lucky and I remember this moment where we had one of those little Sony TVs in the kitchen and the little white one that went back, you know, probably as far as this and my mother had it on the kitchen and this black and white movie came on with Laurence Olivier and Greer Garson and it was an old version of Pride and Prejudice and Laurence Olivier was Darcy and Greer Garson was Lizzie Bennet and literally my mother still talks about it. I just sort of sat down in the chair and I was spellbound and I went to my father afterwards and I said, "Are there more films with Laurence Olivier in?" And he absolutely adored all those actors of that time, Gilgood, Olivier, and told me a lot about them and seen them on the stage as well. He was very lucky. But basically said, "Well, if you like Pride and Prejudice, why don't you read it?" and basically plotted me out, which I think was really clever of him, the order to read them in, because there's a big difference in terms of complexity and maturity in something like Persuasion and Mansfield Park than there is in Northanger Abbey.

11:12
So he started me on Northanger Abbey, see if I can remember the order Jack, Northanger Abbey, Sense and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice, Emma, Mansfield Park, Persuasion. That was what he felt kind of was the, you know, there was more in the later ones in terms of complexity. In Mansfield Park you have that brilliant play within a play, basically the play that they're all performing reflects their terrible, terrible personalities in a really, really clever way. So yeah, so then I got Austin obsessed, and then that quickly led to Brontes and yeah, so I remember reaching the end of Austin and going to my father, "Aren't there any more?" I couldn't believe it. I was absolutely heartbroken.
Jack Wrighton - 12:03
Yeah, that it ended. I think that's such a reader's dilemma, is when you come to the end of a series, or even a single book, you know, by an existing author, but you know, you get the sense that that's the book and that's it. You've got to know these characters or this world and suddenly you sort of have to say, you know, kind of that's it, you're not going to be given any more. You can reread it but you're not going to be given anything new.

Georgina Moore - 12:29
It's really hard, isn't it? I tell you who I've just had that with in a more modern way is Taylor Jenkins Reid.
Jack Wrighton - 12:36
Oh yes, yeah.

Georgina Moore - 12:38
So I've got that slight thing which I think goes back to my days as a bookseller where if everyone's hyping something or reading someone I'm a bit like no, I'm interested and I think that was because when I was a bookseller and thought I was so cool and knew everything, you know, that lots of the Chiswick mothers would come in and sort of say, have you got that book, you know, Captain Corelli something, something guitar or something and I go, oh, you mean? Or I think it was also the brilliant Kate Atkinson's first novel Behind the Scenes at the Museum as well was the book that everyone article, but it would put you off. Yeah, because you would feel that everyone was reading it and had gone mainstream when you were when you're sort of 20 something bookseller. That's how we all felt and there's a little bit of me even though I'm in it, that's still a bit like that and so I was resisting the whole love for Taylor Jenkins Reid and then someone sent me Carrie Soto and it was just the right time. It was a proof.

13:38
It looked great and of course, going back to what I was telling you about my love for flawed characters, Soto is the most brilliant flawed character. I mean she's really not that nice and she's, you know, and there's sometimes hard to find things that are likeable about her. But again she has this kind of spirit of wanting things for herself and wanting success and not being prepared to be diminished or dismissed that I just loved and so then I think I made the mistake Jack of saying on Twitter, book Twitter, you know, what should I read next? And I then realised that I had read Daisy right at the beginning ages ago, which I liked but didn't love as much of Carrie Soto. So then I read Evelyn Hughes, and then I read Malibu Rising. So now I've read all the big ones and I'm totally obsessed with her. I think she's amazing. I love the way she just creates this mood and atmosphere. doesn't matter whether it's you know beach vibes or tennis or yes and also she's just so good at that kind of narrative thread between the past and the present which I think is so hard to do well.
Jack Wrighton - 14:53
Oh yeah absolutely and the interesting thing is there with Taylor Jenkins Reid as well is you know we were talking about how people’s sort of focus isn't the same you know there's all these apps you can go to to kind of get distraction but actually also one of the kind the benefits of that has been sort of things like BookTok, which is now a huge area, and Taylor Jenkins Reid has, particularly on there, has gained a huge following. It's been kind of wonderful to see, despite sometimes people's worries, actually that younger generation, I mean they've made BookTok kind of one of the biggest parts of an app that has something like two billion users, which is incredible, and it's so exciting to see them, you know, excitedly discussing these books that they love.

Georgina Moore - 15:42
And you know what's interesting about it is of course having sat in many meetings on this subject in the book industry as they try to work out the metrics of booktok and how to harness it for sales and of course what is powerful about it is there is no way to harness it and long may that live that way and I hope that, I mean even now you're starting to see those threads of advertising, book advertising coming through on TikTok, which of course will have the opposite effect of what people want because that's not what BookTok is about. BookTok is almost about this sort of self discovery, isn't it? I've seen it with Daisy who loves BookTok and she then read all the Heartburn books and then she's just read the Summer I Turn Pretty books and then she was really thrilled because I got, I'm starting to get those early Goodreads reviews and someone on Goodreads said that The Garnettt Girls really reminded me because of the setting in the beach of the song 'Right I'm Pretty' and this was literally the best thing you could have said to Daisy. Daisy was like 'oh my god mum!'
Jack Wrighton - 16:45
What a compliment!

Georgina Moore - 16:47
I know, so yeah I think I'm such a fan of it, but I do hope in a way that the book world doesn't go in too forcibly with lots of advertising and kind of ruin that because, do you know what I mean? I think it has to be, from having seen what Daisy is influenced by, it's peer to peer.
Jack Wrighton - 17:10
Oh, absolutely and it's organic, and also that younger generation who've really grown up with the internet, they can also spot more so than I think, you know, people have definitely, you know, people of my age, they can spot when it's kind of contrived and they really reject it in a way that I think older generations actually don't. I think, you know, they kind of go, Oh, yeah, like, I accept that. I don't know, I feel with that younger generation, they're very like, nope, that's not, you know,

Georgina Moore - 17:38
I think that's definitely right.
Jack Wrighton - 17:40
Yeah. And I think yes, no, I think you're right. I think it kind of has to be left to do its own thing. I think so. That's the magic of it.

Georgina Moore - 17:47
And then if something could happen with the Garnettt Girls on BookTok, I'd be really happy. Yes. Yeah. Just putting out there.
Jack Wrighton - 17:51
Yes. Yeah. Just putting it out there, everyone pick up the Garnettt Girls and get on your TikToks right now.

Georgina Moore - 17:57
I've asked Daisy to do my TikTok to work with me on my TikTok. Oh, nice. Yeah. Well because if anyone's going to know how to do it, she is and she was so, she's, I have to be prepared for harsh criticism because she was like, I did, I did a video and she was just like, mum, this is just so cringe.
Jack Wrighton - 18:15
Oh no, you're diving into deep waters there, you know, with the, but yeah, but you have to do, I think, you know, it's part of the…. we've got a shop TikTok now, which I'm actually in charge of.

Georgina Moore - 18:28
Brilliant. I did a couple of things cause I get really nice book posts of me opening the post and that seemed to be really down really well because of course something that we take you know you're opening proofs all the time packages something we take for granted other people are like oh my god and you get bookmarks and you know mugs and bath bombs and yeah people love it don't they?
Jack Wrighton - 18:51
Oh absolutely I mean it's a huge privilege that I find I have to remind myself of a lot, looking at kind of a pile of proofs we've got in that day and I'm thinking that's free books for many people if they buy them. Obviously we're very lucky in Abington we have a great local library which we're really happy to work with and that's so important. But you know if you purchase a book it's a bit of an investment really and we're very lucky that we get access to so many free things. So yeah you're right people are really interested to see that.

Georgina Moore - 19:20
I think you're right Jack and I think something will be on everyone's minds with the cost of living and crisis and that people will have to think twice won't they about whether they're going to buy in hardback, that may well shift quite a lot of sales off hardbacks that had had, you know, hardbacks had had a resurgence particularly for brand authors and because people love the beautiful look of them, the ribbon, the guild and you know, all those collectible things. But it may well be that we see a change again in the way the industry works, in response to that because a hardback, as you say, it's an investment.

19:56
I mean, I think the only thing I would say on things like the paperbacks is, you know, you sometimes hear people muttering in certain places about the cost of books and, you know, if you take a discounted paperback price and compare it to what you'll spend in Starbucks, for example, on a coffee and, you know, then you realize, and what you will get from the book that will last you, I don't know how long a book lasts you Jack, my book doesn't last me that long, but you know what I mean?
Jack Wrighton - 20:26
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

Georgina Moore - 20:28
So in many ways, I would say this though wouldn't I. Books are bargains.

Jack Wrighton - 20:32
Yes, no, I would have to agree and it's a conversation, you know, I've had with customers, but you know, not enough, you know, because I think it's understandable, you know, if you do again, if you don't kind of know how it all works, you know, £8.99, let's say for a paperback or £9.99, you just kind of see the, you know, the price of that and you don't think. But I'm always happy to, you know, discuss it with people because I think actually, once you kind of break it down people go oh actually you know you're right because I find people might buy a greetings card and a book and be about the book, you know they'll be like books are quite expensive and you know I would never say to someone oh no you're wrong how did you know, I see what you mean but you know actually when you think about it the time that goes into writing a book the people involved the whole yeah that's so true they are incredibly

Georgina Moore - 21:18
You know that's a good way of describing it because it could be two or three years of an author's life and income. Looking at it that way, and greetings cards are pricey. What's that all about?
Jack Wrighton - 21:35
I say that when I'm aware that at Mostly Books we do sell quite a lot of greetings cards. I just think when, you know, it's funny, certain things people will pick up like a coffee, like a card, like so many other things, without thinking about that price because it's under maybe that kind of £5 mark. Something like a book which is, you know, can be someone's life, you know, and so many people have been involved with a real community of people.

Georgina Moore - 22:03
Yeah that's brilliantly described community, there is a community around the book. I really like, there's a couple of publishers who've started making sure that in their acknowledgments at the back of the book they have the whole community that was involved in the book, which is so nice. I think it it was Dialogue Books, who I love, who's an imprint, brilliant imprint. Actually, no, actually a full publisher moved from being an imprint to a full publisher.
Jack Wrighton - 22:26
That's wonderful.

Georgina Moore - 22:28
Very exciting. But they started that trend of having, you know, so you'd have everyone who worked in it on production and who worked on the cover and who worked in all that, that often those people don't get acknowledged. So that's really nice. That community.
Jack Wrighton - 22:42
That's lovely. Yeah, that's lovely to see because you know all of them have you know have played an important role exactly in that book. So you've mentioned that you've recently been reading Taylor Jenkins read are there any sort of other books recently that you've picked up that have really spoken to you or have you yeah I usually have I'm sure you're the same about three books on the go.

Georgina Moore - 23:06
Oh I'm yeah I'm terrible. So at the moment I've just finished so as part of the promotion for The Garnettt Girls I've been asked to write really very fortunate and feel privileged, but I've been asked to write a few short stories for promotional reasons, but I've never written a short story. I will have written one now. So I've been sort of reading short stories to help me because they have a very particular art to them. I mean, you almost have to go straight in. It's almost like you're, you know, how you pick it. Maybe you're going straight into a conversation that people have been having a while and you've got to quickly pick up the strands of what that's exactly what it seems to be. So I've just read Lily King who's a novelist I love and her short story Five Tuesdays in Winter, it’s Picador, but I really really admire her as a novelist.

23:56
She wrote a book called Writers and Lovers and I love her writing. She's absolutely brilliant. I loved Writers and Lovers so I thought I'd read her and they're so good, the short stories. So I've been taking quite a lot of advice from authors when I meet them on who and Maggie O'Farrell who's an author I'm very very lucky to have worked with. I've looked after Maggie O'Farrell's PR for over 10 years now. She recommended Alice Monroe, so I'm going to read Alice Monroe next, but people have been giving me lots and lots of tips. Of course now I can't remember any of them that's so typical. But yeah Alice Monroe and also as someone said going back to Roald Dahl, you know the sort of strange stories, what are they called, the tales of the unexpected? Have I got that right? There's a brilliant one about a woman I think who sort of chops up her husband and puts him in the freezer.
Jack Wrighton - 24:51
I remember that one.

Georgina Moore - 24:52
Feeds it to the police when they come around. So I'm going to go back on those. I mean, are you a short story reader, Jack? Do you?
Jack Wrighton - 25:00
I do actually, yes, yeah. I do like a short story. I... which ones? The ones I've actually most recently picked up is a brilliantly bizarre, strange, I loved it, it was like nothing else, Cursed Bunny, which is a translated Korean author.

Georgina Moore - 25:18
Cursed Bunny, I'm writing it down.
Jack Wrighton - 25:20
Yeah and it's, I mean they are, I will say, you know, incredibly bizarre. Some of them are ghost stories, some of them are, you know, you would be hard to categorise them as a genre but just absolutely, you know, as you say, that you're diving right into the middle of the story, you know, it's all happening.

Georgina Moore - 25:37
I know.

Jack Wrighton - 25:39
And then you're kind of part of the enjoyment of the story and part of the process of the story is actually just kind of working out where you are, you know, where am I in the world, you know, what's happening, who am I with, and there's something quite thrilling about that that I think a short story offers.

Georgina Moore - 25:53
I found my note, Jack, from this. I was lucky enough yesterday to go to a lunch with the Women's Prize and Audible. It was for the discoveries authors, the shortlisted discoveries authors, which is all about discovering new amazing debut voices and we ended up all chatting about and Meg Wolitzer was the one that came up, whose supposed to be a brilliant short story writer, but going back to the past, Katherine Mansfield, someone reminded me as a great. is a great, so I'm going to look at those, but also something called Secret Loves of Church Ladies, which I wrote down because, so I'm going to look that up, but yeah, no, lots of, there's lots of people who absolutely adore short stories and I didn't realise, often have like a collection by their bed or to dip into or, you know, alongside their other reading. So I can see, I'm going to, I remember when I was with, when I was looking after Maggie O'Farrell when she had written her memoir, I Am, I Am, I Am, which is about her 17 brushes of death.

26:52
I went on a whole memoir reading extravaganza because we were on trains a lot together, Maggie and I, and she was telling me about all the different memoirs that had inspired it. So I was just reading memoirs and I love that when you go down a kind of, you know, you go into a whole new area and talking about memoirs, I am also reading at the moment, this, the Kit de Waal, Without Warning and Only Sometimes, because I love Kit's writing. I think she's amazing and this is her memoir about childhood and I'm just loving it. Basically all the characters feel so real. So it's got that brilliant thing that you get with the best memoirs where it doesn't feel memoir-y, it feels like you're reading a story, you know, a proper story and she's just so talented at character and also you know she managed to instill it with her own spirit of adventure but you know she had a tough time, tough childhood, so I'm really enjoying that, so I'd recommend that to anyone. Yeah so that's what I'm reading at the moment.
Jack Wrighton - 27:53
I love those, I love a glimpse into someone's life, I think is such a, I don't know, you know, it's such a wonderful thing and memoirs are always, you know, there's always a great draw there and I find I go through periods where I don't read them and then I'll pick up one, I think, you know, why haven't I been reading more of these. I mean it's true for most kind of books, there's so many different areas you can explore that you leave one for a while then when you come back you're like why did I ever leave? But then you think that for all of them so yes.

Georgina Moore - 28:28
I think as well if you've read novel after novel after novel sometimes reading a memoir could be like a palate cleanser it's just like a cut through and then you kind of go into a different mode of thinking it's a different way of thinking and that it can really push you into worlds that you might not have explored otherwise.
Jack Wrighton - 28:50
Yes absolutely. Well one I will recommend if you don't mind me, yeah don't mind me recommending one over the podcast, is actually the recent Nobel winner. I've almost, every time a writer writes the Nobel I've almost always haven't read them. I will fully admit that.

Georgina Moore - 29:03
No me neither.
Jack Wrighton - 29:06
I'm terrible and then I'll think oh no I'm a bookseller. I feel like I should

Georgina Moore - 29:10
I know you feel bad yeah.

Jack Wrighton - 29:11
Oh you feel yeah you feel guilty because someone will come in 15 minutes later after the announcement and go oh have you read the... and I'll be like oh no I haven't. This is the first year where I have The Years by Annie Erno which is about...

Georgina Moore - 29:23
Oh yeah I've heard it's amazing.
Jack Wrighton - 29:26
It's just extraordinary and that is a memoir, biography, history, again I think it's sort of you know it doesn't sit neatly within the boundaries but I think many great books you know don't. But you know I picked it up just on a whim a couple of years ago and it just drew me in and didn't put me down until...

Georgina Moore - 29:44
Oh I’m going to have to buy that now. If only I could just nip round the corner to your bookshop. The one, the recommendation I had that probably has stayed with me more than any is, it was Maggie O’Farrell who told me to read it, is Giving Up the Ghost by Henry Mantel. I'm telling everyone at the moment. It's just, it's just absolutely brilliant. It's so, so good. So that was one of the ones that I read when I was in that. But yeah, I've heard good things about the Annie Erno, so I'm gonna have to buy that now, Jack. Thanks a lot.
Jack Wrighton - 30:21
Sorry. That's another £10 gone from the bank account there. And now for actually quite a big question, because we, you know, we've discussed books from your childhood, sort of books that you've read recently now and a big question we always ask which I would be perfectly honest I would struggle to answer myself is a book that changed your life?

Georgina Moore - 30:38
I think there isn't one but there are maybe three or four that… so I would definitely have Jane Eyre there because there's something about what's achieved with that book in terms of the sense of the physicality and the passion between Jane and Rochester and, you know, I always remember that bit in the book where they're apart because Jane's had to flee because she's already married and she talks about the line that's being stretched between them and she hears him calling and I just remember when I was reading it, just thinking about the way, as a writer, Charlotte had created this, this absolute belief in the reader in that, in that bond between the two of them and you just your heart's in your mouth, because you want Jane to go back, but you know that she shouldn't and you know that it's wrong and I think also for me, when I studied that, because I went and did English as a degree, and I remember exploring this idea when I was studying it of, you know, the idea that actually, almost Charlotte has to castrate Rochester, to enable Jane to go back to him.

31:53
So she got when she goes back to him, he's blind and he's broken and he's burnt and he's a shadow of the huge man he was the huge threatening and sexually imposing and, and controlling man that he was and it's almost in a way that actually Charlotte could only see that as an option for Jane. I remember studying it from a feminist point of view and also looking at the challenges that the Brontes met at their time as writers, writing under male names, under pseudonyms and the way they were received and what they really had to encounter. One of the things that probably is biggest in terms of my life of thinking about authors are those three, the three sisters as as well, their relationship and I think probably like everyone, I've sort of gobbled up every, there's a brilliant book called "The Bronte Myth". Is it by Lucasta Miller? Oh God, it's so good. I'm just going to quickly look at that while I'm talking to you. But I sort of gobbled up everything about the, I grew up with my father telling me stories about, I don't know whether all of them were true, Jack, but brilliant stories about, the one about Emily going out onto the moor and tackling the rabid dog and coming back with a bite and holding the bite in an open flame to cauterize it and just, I mean, I know there's a lot and that's why this book about the myths around them.

33:30
But there's a lot to sort of analyze there and think about what is actually true and what's not, but just the ideas, even the ideas around them, the stories around them, not just their stories, but the stories… That really is at the heart of why I love books and study and why I love studying books and also the myths around authors. So that's big for me and I've already talked as well about why Anne was, this idea of the flawed heroine. I suppose I see it in moments as much as books but when I was a bookseller, I arrived with all this very good classical, educated on books, knew a lot about the Victorians, love the Victorians, but really was so far behind on my modern reading and that was because I had a father who wasn't, who sort of reading stopped at DH Lawrence and I, so I was, you know, became a bookseller and they were all really cool, really scary about why I had not read On the Road by Jack Caroweth, why, you know, and it was a time of train spotting and Ervin Welsh and it was just such an exciting time. and I just was like, fine, bring it on and I was just, it was just that time when I was, you know, early twenties and I was just gobbling up everything from Isabella Lende to Ervin Welsh to the new Kate Atkins and I remember that as much as a time of inspiration for me as any individual book, just suddenly going, oh my God, there's so much more to my reading than the Victorians or so taking that basis.

35:06
But there was a brilliant moment 'cause they were all really sneery with me. you haven't read On the Road and you haven't read… and so then I quickly was catching up, but I remember someone came in and asked for the Vicar of Wakefield and everyone looked behind the till were like, Georgia will know and I was like, yeah, it's Oliver Goldsmith. I'll just find it for you. So I sometimes got my revenge on them. But it was that sort of time. So those are the key types of things. So that early pre-teen moment around Anne of Green Gables, Little Women, those kind of books, the idea of family and what family means and what it means to be a girl, as it were, you know, I use girl deliberately and then the kind of great discovery of the big myths of literature, you know, the mythology around the Brontes and, and then moving to that early period where I suddenly were like, Oh my god, like a child in a sweet shop, you know, expanding my reading. So those are kind of those three moments for me that gives you a sense of those are the big things when I look back on my reading that changed me, changed my reading.

Jack Wrighton - 36:12
Absolutely and I think moments, I think the idea of actually particular sort of reading moments or turning points is a common theme when we ask this question of yeah moments where it wasn't a single book but it was maybe discovering a whole area that I hadn't gone to before which you know for a bit like us talking about you know when you go back to reading memoirs or something and you're sitting like, it's a real, you can feel the sort of gear shifting and you're like, oh, now actually I'm going in.

Georgina Moore - 36:41
It's so nice that when it happens, isn't it?
Jack Wrighton - 36:44
Oh, it's such a lovely.

Georgina Moore - 36:45
But I also really remember this one period where I had this fantastic aunt and she read a lot of modern literature and she was a good contrast to me in my development 'cause with my father, he was unprepared to look past D.H. Lawrence and she took me into a bookshop once and I remember just scanning the tables and just picking up books and going, Oh yeah, Chicago Tribune. Oh yeah, I really like what they like. Or oh look at this review. I've read something else by the, and just literally she was just kind of scanning and she came out with a pile, this book and it was just one of those moments where I was like, I can do that too. Also the discovery that, you know, recommendation.

37:31
I think that that moment for me where I first understood about, you know, she was also talking to the booksellers about what, you know, and she had this ongoing relationship and it was, there was some newspapers she trusted, there was some authors name she trusted, there was a… but also she was really influenced by book jackets and it was when I began to sort of think more of the business side of books and, and what makes you, so I remember that as a real moment and my father had a small academic publishing house and he did everything in it from jacket design to copy and I used to sort of go to the London book fair with him when I was you know 11 or 12 and I just remember being fascinated in all the different parts of the job including going in with him to bookshops and selling the books he would do the rep side of it as well so yeah there was it was definitely very much in my family and in my story, to love stories and also just to be interested in the business of books.
Jack Wrighton - 38:31
Yes and actually you know what you're saying there about you know getting recommendations kind of there's a social element to books as well you know whether it's within a family you know people being you know passed books on by different family members or chatting to friends or booksellers, you know we think of reading as a solo thing which of course it is most of the time but actually how you come across books can be an incredibly social, you know, social, emotional thing, you know, it's a connection with the family. Yeah and that's yeah one of the sort of beauties of it really.

Georgina Moore - 39:04
One of the things I love about being in the office at work at Midas, so I was in publishing for 20 or so years, running the press office at Headline and now I'm at Midas, the PR agency, we do PR across festivals, book festivals, book prizes, authors. I've really enjoyed that because, you know, it sort of expanded my understanding of the trade and the industry and we look after bookshop.org and the BA. Yeah, so loads in the trade. So that's been absolutely brilliant. But one of the there's nothing that beats and it's particularly after lockdown, I'm sure you feel the same. I mean, when I'm in the office, and we're all going, you know, people go, Oh, Georgia, I saw you that you tweeted about so-and-so, oh god you must read so-and-so, you know that kind of chat that you get about books with people who love books as well and know a lot about books, it's nothing beats it, that kind of social side of it in my opinion and at book events too, you know.
Jack Wrighton - 40:00
So fun, absolutely love them, you know, it's such a great experience, you know, to have that, you know, have those recommendations speak to people and you know for you as well, you know, we talked about these big book turning points, I feel obviously a big book turning point is going to be the publication of your own book and what's been so wonderful about our conversation so far is there's a few little themes that have arrived that, there's a lot of talk of family or books about family and connections between people, characters who are flawed, exploring those grey areas of just being a human being, and that seems highly relevant to The Garnettt Girls. So for those listening, tell us about The Garnettt Girls.

Georgina Moore - 40:56
It's so true, Jack. I think really I just wrote the kind of book that I love reading and so The Garnettt Girls is about three sisters and their father, who was a really kind of sexy, charismatic poet, but a drunk, I mean, with an alcohol problem, an addiction problem, left them when they were very young and there's a sort of mystery around what happened and their mother’s not really helping that mystery, Margot. So she's about to turn 60 and she is herself a huge character. She, you know, still so alive, behaving badly, having affairs, having parties, but also so much love for her three daughters, but sometimes not showing it in the best way, trying to control their lives and probably trying to overcompensate for the fact that they don't have a father, trying to be both parents and having a very clear idea of what she thinks he all should be doing.

42:00
But of course, the girls and the girls are all in their 30s at different stages and one of the things I really like is I often feel there are too many books about people in their 20s and actually, 30s is so interesting, because for a woman particularly, you know, it can be the real time when people are expecting you to make some tough decisions, tough decisions about are you going to have a baby? What's happening with your career? Is that person you've been with a long time actually the one? You know, how many people do you know in their thirties suddenly go, Oh my God, I've been with this person since university. Yeah, there's no way I should be with them and it's just a really, really crux point. Yeah, I really wanted to explore that and also with Margot, I really wanted to explore and it was a bit of a shock for me. I literally I turned 50 this year and it was a bit of a shock for me, because in my head, I'm like everyone, I'm still 25, whatever. When I suddenly realized that I was nearer Margot's age, then I was..
Jack Wrighton - 42:59
Oh yeah, yes.

Georgina Moore - 43:00
And that was a shock to me and I was thinking, well, really, am I going to be that different in 10 years from now? Am I really going to be lost all my spirit and fun? And so I really wanted to explore that with Margot that you could have an older protagonist that's not stuck in the corner, not being allowed to be anything other than a grandparent, which you do get a lot sometimes in books. So she's basically trying to get the daughters to do and they don't want to they want to do their own thing and it's very much about how the past affects family and how you can live in the shadow of it and trying to find your own way and also about leaving home and rejecting home but also always being pulled back to it and it's set on the Isle of Wight, where I have a houseboat. It's a holiday houseboat which we rent out, but it's in the sea in Benbridge and so I sort of really fell in love with the Isle of Wight and that was probably the inspiration for The Garnettt girls as much as anything, as much as wanting to write about mothers and daughters and family with the settings of the Isle of Wight and they're sort of on a crumbling house on a beach and so what I hope I achieve is a sense of escapism, because that was was really important to me when I was writing it because I was escaping into it.

44:14
It was lock down and we kept dreaming of walking on the beach and then, but also I think that The Garnettt Girls, a couple of people have said this to me and I hope it's true, it's not sentimental, it's not a sentimental book. It's quite a tough… there's tough stuff in it. And the girls, you know, go through quite a lot and so does Margot, and so escapist yet not sentimental is probably the best, best description of it and yeah, I just I'm really excited to have people read it. I've been really lucky. I've had some lovely quotes from authors, but I really just I'm getting excited now to get out and talk to people about it and I'm really proud of it, actually. I was very aware Jack, as you can imagine, I would be of not wanting it to go out before it was ready, just because of being in the industry and people think you always put my job Georgina Moore, and you know, she knows everyone in the industry. So I was very conscious, self-conscious about that in the early stages.But I did a lot of hard work on it before I was prepared to let it go out, because of, because I was self-conscious about that and people not thinking that I just got a deal because I was in the industry and so on, you do end up feeling paranoid about that. But the book that's going out there, I'm, I'm, I'm really happy with and hope that people will find something of their own.

45:31
What's been really nice is the first meeting I went to with my publisher. I was talking to my editor and the fantastic marketers that are working on the book were opposite me and they didn't know, I was sort of had one ear, I suppose I should really have been listening to my editor, but I was eavesdropping on their conversation and they were chatting and one said to the other, "You know, I think you're like Rachel." and she was like, "Oh, do you think?" "But you know, I do have a touch of Imogen." and then they were like, "But so-and-so is definitely Sasha, is it?" And I was just like, "Oh my God, they're talking about my characters and it was like, oh, it was a real moment. because I was like, if they're real to the readers then that's all you can hope to do, isn't it really? That's what I really wanted to achieve to make the girls real.
Jack Wrighton - 46:19
Absolutely, the moment you get that from readers, that moment of kind of, oh, who does this person remind me of? And, you know, oh, and I’m a bit like this person. I mean, we do that with people in our lives. I mean, that's the greatest compliment to a book, particularly a book like this, you know, where it's the, the people are the characters are the real heart of it. You know, I feel some books, you know, characters are always important, but I feel sometimes an emphasis is put elsewhere, but for these ones, it really is. It's that, you know, it's the emotions, the events, that, you know, of people and between people as well.

Georgina Moore - 46:57
It's quite interesting. So I, someone described it as a character driven book, rather than the plot. So the plot comes out of the characters rather than the characters being into the, and I was thinking about it, I hadn't realised I'd done that, but I think that's probably because those are the kind of books I'm most interested in. I also live with a psychotherapist, and he was my first reader. And he's also someone who doesn't praise easily. and I'm definitely a praise junkie. God, I need praise. I want praise the whole time. I'm terrible like that and so I think he's probably there to squash me a bit sometimes when I'm, you know, and he read it and he doesn't read a huge amount of commercial women's fiction. He's the kind of man that takes the Heart of Darkness on holiday every time and rereads it. So yeah, so that's what I was dealing with Jack and basically he said at the end, I got a few ticks, which is great. I was looking for this, not very many, but a few.
Jack Wrighton - 48:06
It feels like this is someone who, one tick is hard earned.

Georgina Moore - 48:10
Oh yeah. That was amazing and so at the end he said, "Oh, I think you've got something here. You've got to work on it, but you've got something." and he was great, actually. He was brilliant at making me pull out the background, the threads of the characters so that they were distinctive and he was really helpful in that way, because that really mattered to me that they could, you know, and I had to work quite hard on the, it was quite funny, the editor I worked with on the dialogue, she was like, you're really good at sense of place and characters, brilliant.

48:42
We need to do a bit of work on your dialogue, because you do sound like you're in an 18th century novel and she was like, this does happen sometimes with people who read a lot, because I think if you read a lot, and you're reading a lot of different, you know, the ear for dialogue, when you come to write it, you know, you could struggle with to get the distinctive, which was, you know, she was brilliant with me because she broke it down. She was like, you've got to get rid of all proper grammar and you, you know, you can't actually reflect how people really speak. It's kind of a modification of that. Yes, but each person's voice needs a kind of its own rhythm and cadence and it was interesting, because actually I go, you know, like you do, Jack, I go to lots of book events and I hear a lot of writers speak about the craft of writing, but you don't actually unless you're on a proper workshop, you don't actually get the kind of ins and outs of dialogue and how to write it. So I was just like fascinated by all that and I think I'm, you know, I was just like yeah bring it on I'm gonna get better at this so that was really helpful. But yeah I'm excited to go out there with it.
Jack Wrighton - 49:47
Yeah it must be, I mean you were saying it was a lockdown book something that you know you started then so it's been quite a long process already and I think that moment, you know, we're seeing now, I can see that the book is going out to, you know, readers that, you know, those early kind of reviews are coming in. So you're at that brilliant sort of precipice or, you know, boundary where suddenly that book which has been shared with, you know, family, with the publishers and people involved is now going out into the world and I think that's such a brilliant moment for a book because once it's out in world it kind of you know it belongs to you but it also starts belonging to readers because people will start reading it and thinking, oh you know I'm definitely Sasha is someone I kind of identify with more and it becomes its own thing it becomes almost living I think when it's out in the world with with readers.

Georgina Moore - 50:38
I think you're right and it was funny because it's quite hard at the moment because I'm writing a book, I'm finishing book two because I had a two-book deal and so friends and stuff have texted me, you said nice things, or said, Oh, I like this bit here, or that's really funny and then I'm writing the other one, I just think, Oh, God, there's nothing funny in the new one. There's nothing any good at all. Oh, God, there's nothing like that in the new one and then I spend my whole time and someone said to me, Oh, I've got a friend who's, you know, how some friends of just, you know, they don't gush and yeah and she sent me a text going, I've just finished The Garnettt Girls, I may have shed a tear and I was like, oh… but then I immediately jumped from, oh I made my friend cry to, my ending's not going to make anyone cry, my new ending's rubbish, I'm gonna, and it's really bad because you're second guessing yourself on your writing which, so I've got to learn, you know, hopefully I'll get better at this to kind of separate the two and not be affected by what people are saying about the first as I'm writing, so I've got to get better at that.
Jack Wrighton - 51:55
But I would say as well from, you know, all the authors I've spoken to, it doesn't, it seems like it doesn't matter if it's your first or if it's your 12th, that self-doubt is such a theme, is such a theme, and you know sometimes you're speaking to people and you think, you know, that would be by this point kind of like, oh I can write whatever, you know, people will read it, you know, I'm x or y, you know, these kind of big names, but actually no, that's not the case, but I think that's because writing, even though it starts as a solitary exercise, is a want to kind of connect to people. I don't think any writer's kind of like, I've written this and if everyone hates it then so be it because I actually think an important part of it is kind of wanting to connect with those readers so you know it seems like a very human reaction I think to writing.

Georgina Moore - 52:43
I think that's right and it's interesting though and I think this is one of the things that is good about doing it now I'm older and I don't know whether, I mean a lot of people said to me oh Georgia what's taking you so long and I'm like well A) that's really offensive and B), I was having such a great time in my career in publishing, having an amazing time promoting brilliant authors and I absolutely loved it. So that first of all, but I think it is the right age for me to do it because I noticed someone tagged me to a Goodreads review on Twitter or whatever, so I went on and went into a bit of a wormhole of looking at the reviews and lots of really nice five-star ones, so that was all good and then one that was like no I didn't like these characters and I think this book's for middle-aged people.

53:54
I was like and I was really surprised because I was like not at all upset or flummoxed at all by it and I was like yeah no fair, because I think because I know that not everyone will necessarily love those characters and for some people they will maybe be a bit too flawed or a bit too hard-done and so I was quite proud of myself because I thought maybe I'd go down and sort of, you know, into a pit of despair when I saw something like that. But I think probably because once you've had, I'm sure this is the same for authors, once you've had a few people that you really, like there's a lot of people I know who are either reviewers or authors whose taste I love and once you've had a few of those, you kind of like, you've got a bit of a basis and you sort of know that there are going to be people who like it. and therefore you can take a bit of the rough with the smooth in that way. But I think I probably am going to be better at that than I would have been when I was younger. Anyway, that's what I'm telling myself to make myself feel better.
Jack Wrighton - 54:32
No, but it's absolutely true. Every book finds its readership and actually, I think with writing as well, I think people can write at any point in their life. But of course, because when you're writing about people, I mean, again, you said you wrote a book that you wanted to read with all the books you've mentioned, you've mentioned that sort of, you know, characters with a beautiful internal world and, you know, you've got that in the Garnettt Girls, you know, you've got these wonderful characters that you're kind of really experiencing the world sort of through their eyes and to do something like that I think, you know, to kind of take life and kind of process it that way and turn it into a story, you know, I think it's a real skill and I think to, I wonder sometimes whether it's harder to do that, you know, if let's say you're an kind of, particularly when you're writing about a mix of characters, if you're an author kind of in their early 20s, you know, than you are, but I think that's the wonderful thing about writing, you know, you can be one of these kind of like young writers that seems to appear from nowhere, or...

Georgina Moore - 55:33
You can do it later, yeah. I was with the winner yesterday of the Discoveries prize, and she's just turned 50. You know, there's quite a lot of people coming into it later as well, which is really nice I think because as you say you then get a kind of breadth and depth of experience that's different.
Jack Wrighton - 55:50
Yes exactly yeah I think if books only came from I don't know people in a particular bracket you know we wouldn't have the wonderful world of kind of books and publishing that we do you know it's different voices that's what I think everyone sort of craves and you know and you're one of those voices now which must be so exciting you're you're one of those kind of books on a shelf that someone will reach for and you know, such an exciting time.

Georgina Moore - 56:19
Oh yeah no, I am and I just, one of the things I'll, I think, I mean I hope I'll get to do is just being in bookshops as well and talking to people because I really really like that. I've always loved that, you know, I think it's such an important part of the process and you know it's easy to get a little bit sort of distracted by, you know, industry echo chamber. But really, you know, the truth is it's the readers out there and how do you get to them and how do you know? Obviously, I'm fascinated by that anyway, because that's part of my job. But I am, you know, and that's why everything from things like your brilliant podcast, to going into bookshops and doing any event and, you know, I've said to my publisher, you know, because I've seen other authors do this, you know, start at the beginning career talking to just a handful of people, doesn't matter. You start and you just get into that practice of getting out and traveling. So you're not just London-centric, you are going and doing pairings with other authors and supporting other authors and just making sure you're playing a good part in that whole community.
Jack Wrighton - 57:26
Yeah because it is a community.

Georgina Moore - 57:30
It's so important.
Jack Wrighton - 57:31
It's a big part of publishing now I think is kind of meeting your potential readers or the booksellers, that's a big part of it now. But as you were saying, The Garnettt Girls, it's kind of very obvious that it's already gaining its readership which I think is so fantastic and must be so fantastic to see.

Georgina Moore - 57:54
Thanks Jack.
Jack Wrighton - 57:55
My absolute pleasure and I think unfortunately that has brought us to the end. It's been lovely having you on the podcast. Thank you so much.

Georgina Moore - 58:03
I've loved it.
Jack Wrighton - 58:04
Good, good. I'm glad. I'm glad.

Georgina Moore - 58:06
And I've got books to buy as well.

Jack Wrighton - 58:08
Yes, exactly. You've got recommendations. So have I, so have I. There's things on your list that I definitely want to go out and read now. As we said before, The Garnettt Girls is published on the 16th of February. It will available in your local bookstores. Go out, read it, it's a brilliant book and I think we're going to be hearing a lot more about it in the future and I'm looking forward to seeing readers in our shop come across it and I'll certainly be recommending it to them. Georgina Moore, thank you so much for joining us on Mostly Books Meets.

Georgina Moore - 58:37
Thank you so much, Jack.
Jack Wrighton - 58:40
Mostly Books Meets is presented and produced by the selling team at Mostly Books, an award-winning bookshop located in Abingdon, Oxfordshire. All of the titles mentioned in this episode are available through our shop or your preferred local independent. If you enjoyed this episode be sure to check out our previous guests which includes some of the most exciting voices in the world of books. Thanks for listening and happy reading.