Speaker 1 (00:00:01):
No matter where your business is today or where you want to take it, you'll get there faster and more profitably with an operating system. Welcome to Team Os, your guide to starting, growing and optimizing real estate team. Here's your host, Ethan Butte
Speaker 2 (00:00:15):
For insights into starting, growing and optimizing a real estate team. We're talking with Chris Lindell. A few fun facts before we get started. He's been nominated Innovator of the Year several times by Inman News, be generous is a core value for the team and apparel line and the spark behind the Chris Lindell Foundation, and he's often recognized as the arms out beyond the Billboard guy and you might see people do the lydall at a Minnesota Twins or Minnesota Wild game. Chris, thanks for talking Team Os today.
Speaker 3 (00:00:45):
Awesome. Thanks for having me. That's quite the introduction.
Speaker 2 (00:00:48):
Yeah, I try to get a lot of ideas into one compact intro and there's so many things we could share about how you got where you are, but to get started, I'm going to ask you a question I've already asked you once before and that is what is a must have characteristic of a high performing team?
Speaker 3 (00:01:09):
There's so many. I'm trying to think of what would come to the top. I think the market that we're in today is the ability to pivot. I mean you look at the world that we just came from and where we're headed. If you don't have the ability to move and navigate, it's going to be tough.
Speaker 2 (00:01:28):
Yeah. How do you advise anyone to stay in touch with what's going on, localize it because obviously every local market has some nuance to it and then also share that within the team. How do you make sure that your team members who are representative of your brand and they're representative of one another collectively, how do you make sure that folks, I mean you're driving some of that pivot yourself, but then there's also this needs to be executed out on the street with buyers, with sellers, with partners. How does that flow go for you? How do you stay in touch and how do you make sure that the team is in touch with it too?
Speaker 3 (00:02:07):
It comes back to one of the things that anyone that's in sort of leadership position or has been a part of any framework, it's the right seats conversation, having people in the right seats. And so first it's gathering that information. What is it that is happening in the world? What are the indicators of where we're going? What measurables are we using? What is our scorecard? What is it that we're actually trying to achieve? And then looking at what are the macro things that matter to us and then really distilling those at a local level. We know what rates are doing, we know what jobs are doing, we know what the bonds are doing. Those are all things that we know, but how does that impact us at a local level? And then we've got to get into supply levels. I mean, I think in today's world, that's a very big one, looking at days on market, which has a direct correlation to price reductions.
Speaker 3 (00:03:00):
And so you get all that information and you've got to have someone that can gather that and that's got to be someone that has that research detail orientation that can put those things together and then you've got to have someone that can deliver that to the team. I think one of the assessments we use a lot of 'em. One of 'em is working genius, which you and I have talked about before, but you got to make sure that you've got someone that can not only deliver that to a team but stay with them. So if you have galvanizing to get 'em all excited but you're not willing to stay with it, well then you've got to find someone on the team that is in that seat to do that. And so that's a critical piece for us is making sure that you've got the right people in the right seats to be able to not only get that information, stay in tune with what's happening because it changes it seems like by the minute today a new report comes out, something changes, and then the market goes crazy, rates go crazy, consumer confidence gets impacted, and then you need to know what to do with it.
Speaker 3 (00:03:59):
And so it really comes down to the people aspect because so much of business and especially with what we're doing, it's all about the people and we're only as good as where we put them and the place that they're best served and their genius really comes down to the framework that we have. And so as long as we have the right framework in place and everyone's true to really what they're doing and we've got the right scorecards and accountabilities, then we set everyone up to win. And then that's how you get to that next level, even in the macro headwinds that we have today.
Speaker 2 (00:04:36):
Yeah, it always delights me to hear the word scorecard used in this context, honestly. I'm going to ask this. Someone's like, okay, scorecard, tell me more. Just give a quick go to scorecards for folks who aren't familiar with that language.
Speaker 3 (00:04:51):
Yeah, so you've got your company scorecard, which I think is mean. None of these are easy to assemble. I mean it's really challenging. It's taken us years and we also still have a lot of work to do. I mean by no means do we have it all figured out. It's evolving and ongoing and changing and everything. You can think the priorities that we thought were the business six months ago might not all be the same priorities today or of the future. And so it's changing, but it's really getting down to what are the ground level activities per position. I think a lot about sports and you think about football, the wide receiver in most cases isn't going to do a significant amount of blocking compared to the offensive line. There's going to be some blocking the receiver, they're going to be in motion and which is kind of illegal now in football, but a lot of those things are going to be position type.
Speaker 3 (00:05:47):
The running back isn't going to be throwing a lot of passes, but the quarterback is. And so really getting down to that, what are the key responsibilities per person on the team? And if everyone does those things well, I mean you could look at it from a stoplight report like green, yellow, red, or you could be on track off track. If all of those are on track, well already know that the company metrics and scorecards are going to look good. But if you only have the company ones and you don't have the individual ones, well when the company ones are off track, you don't necessarily know exactly where to go The numbers. I mean, this is coming from a super high vision person that doesn't like to be in the weeds of tracking and dashboards and spreadsheets and all the things that go with that, but the math and the numbers actually tell you where your problem is.
Speaker 3 (00:06:43):
In most sales organizations, you can see, okay, where's our problem at? And then you've, you've got to be able to run quickly towards that, whether it's in some cases in businesses like ours, it might be just a temporary bandaid while we can build out bigger process to fix it, right? So it's like the boat, it's like plug the hole. It's like, okay, now do we need a new boat? Do we need to refurbish the boat? What do we need here? And then we go back and assess. But you can only do that really well when you have the right seats, the right people in the right seats. And I think that's critical. And growing up, I think, and I just actually, we had our all day with our leadership not too long ago, and one of the things I mentioned there is I want to be a part of a company in an organization that feels like the highest level sports teams that I ever played on, where the six center doesn't think they're going to be the point guard and dribble the ball up the court.
Speaker 3 (00:07:42):
They don't know how to dribble. They're really clear on what it is they do well and what they should not do. So when you can get an entire organization and it's not easy to do all human beings, we have our blind spots, we have our weaknesses, there's all the other factors that come into play with this. And so just really getting everyone to put the team before the eye and putting that all together is critical. And I think that's how we've been able to do that well, but it hasn't been easy and there are a lot of challenges and I think some of what I said there might sound a little easier said than done too.
Speaker 2 (00:08:20):
Yeah, it is a long work in progress and so we're documenting where the company is going. The way that I've done them in organizations I've been is we're usually throwing it out a 10 to 20 year big vision thing, throwing it out three, throwing it out one, and then looking at the quarter ahead. And then the other benefit of having individual scorecards with clear expectations, we'll get to this later in this conversation, is makes hiring easier. It makes expectations setting easier. It's clear communication, Hey, this is what we agreed was going to be important to both of us in this position. And so it just creates this clarity and alignment that you spoke to.
Speaker 3 (00:09:01):
Before we get, I want to just add one really quick thing that you mentioned there that I think is really important. And what I found is that most people want that too. Most people want that scoreboard. Most people want that accountability. They want that purpose. They want to know what they're driving towards
Speaker 2 (00:09:20):
And how am I helping the
Speaker 3 (00:09:22):
Team. And so there's nothing that drives most human beings more crazy than wondering, does what I do even matter and how am I impacting the greater good in the whole of this entire thing? And so the more you can show how does this all play out? You're actually going to get more from people. It's going to set up stronger. One-on-one conversations of Ethan, your numbers are off the chart, you're crushing it right now. That encouragement keeps you going. And on the other side of it, if there's a few numbers that are off track, we can have some productivity conversations, some coaching sessions around like Ethan, I see an opportunity here where I can help you grow. You're going to surpass your numbers and two weeks from now we're going to look back and if you implement these little things, it's going to make a big difference.
Speaker 3 (00:10:10):
But when you don't know those things, it's really hard to have the conversations. And I found mean this being a super high vision person, a lot of times my vision outruns the operations of the company and that can be healthy, but it also can be dangerous at the same time. It's like when you're so far ahead, you start making decisions that the backend is not ready for. And so it's really important that as you look at all of the metrics and you look at all the things that are happening, that you have at least an understanding of where things stand operationally before you make decisions. Because most really high vision people tend to make decisions more on intuition and gut and less on data and facts. It's like, oh, this just in a lot of cases that high vision person with the high intuition is more often than not, they're not wrong, but sometimes the operations side of the details and the facts of the entire thing cannot keep up with that level of vision and intuition.
Speaker 3 (00:11:15):
And then you add in quick start and all the other things that go into it. But that's where the more information, even for me that I am a really heavy intuition personality. I just want to see the details really fast. They help me. I want a really high level. I want it really quick. It just helps me really quick validate how I'm, is my intuition, right? Oh wait, I thought it was this, but now I'm looking at that like, oh, that must be that. And so the two together work well, but you're never going to see me in the trenches digging through numbers, trying to figure out how the facts can sell my intuition,
Speaker 2 (00:11:54):
Man, okay, we're in it now. So I think it's especially important. I mean you mentioned having coaching conversations with salespeople. I think for your admin team where they don't have an as easy a scoreboard this, am I winning? Am I losing? Am I contributing? How am I contributing? The scorecard is especially helpful there. So now you make me want to double back. You just mentioned an all day with your leadership team. How often do you do that and what does that day look like?
Speaker 3 (00:12:22):
Yeah, so we do quarterly all days. We do a two day annual and we do weekly leadership meetings and have for a long time. And then we also do quarterly state of the companies. We do one for the employees and one for the agents. Where are we at? What did we do? What did we get to celebrate? Where have we identified the opportunities are for the next quarter? And is a way for people in the company to get a pulse on where things are at. So often when we're in a company like this, your head down every single day that you don't really come up for air to see how does this actually all look a 360 view of the entire thing? And so it's just really good for people to hear that. And one thing that you were just talking about that I thought about too, a lot of times people with higher vision, I say that because there's a lot of people that are going to consume this that are probably team leaders or agents that maybe are transition team leaders or broker owners that likely have some vision.
Speaker 3 (00:13:30):
So not every single person has vision. And so the things that I'm describing that we have implemented into our company really help people with little to no vision. The things that we can see or that we know are going on. You might have other people in the company that do super well at their job that cannot see how all the other dots are connecting. Like, Hey, I wonder why they're putting this in place. I wonder why this is happening. And they have zero idea how this is all going to come together someday. And so when you can articulate that at a quarterly and you've got your leadership meetings, then we also have our weekly department level meetings as well that a lot of those issues and things roll up ultimately to the leadership meeting, but it keeps everyone in tune with where you're going. And the more of those conversations, that structure that you follow, the more that people are in the know of what are we doing here?
Speaker 3 (00:14:25):
And especially, I mean I think now more than ever market changes, things are changing. I bet a lot of companies, I am just guessing, but I would imagine finance departments of brokerages and teams are like, where are the commission checks at? So if they don't, you got significantly less sales and they just came from an environment where checks are getting processed like crazy and their deal flow is at an all time high to that just slowly going down for most companies. And all of a sudden they're like, whoa, are we still going to be in business? What is this going to look like? And if they don't have any clarity to anything else that is happening and really just a slight education on how this is all going to be assembled in a new way and in a new world, they assume the company's going out of business tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (00:15:17):
I mean, if they don't have high vision and most people in finance, they're high execution. And so those things really make a big difference because just like the economy overall, there's a consumer confidence. There's also an employee confidence level. So how do employees feel about the company? How do they feel about the mission, the vision? Do they still believe in the direction because the minute that you lose that faith, well they're looking for a new job. So I think those things are really important to stay in tune with that and recognize that everyone consumes and understands things very differently. Some people are super fast, you give 'em a couple of words and they're like, yep, get it all. Makes sense. And others need to hear it like four or five times and it doesn't make anyone better or worse or right or wrong, just we all see the world differently. And so you have to make sure that you have a structure in place to really adhere to all the different personality types and the different types of humans you have in the company. Otherwise you're going to have some people that are feeling slightly lost in an environment like this really
Speaker 2 (00:16:18):
Good call out again, especially on this idea that it's not for better or worse, we just have different strengths and weaknesses and these are the mechanisms that allow us to operate as a maturing growing company, even when we face headwinds. I would also add that the regular cadence there, I mean you talked about some weekly activity, the quarterly all company, the quarterly planning and the quarterly all company communication, the annual leadership planning, all really critical not to skip any of that stuff because that's how we keep it all moving and it creates norms and expectations for those people that really need those to feel comfortable and confident. Before we get too much farther, I would love for you, Chris, to characterize your team however you like, market size, structure, personality or culture, however you want to characterize your team. I'd love for you to do that.
Speaker 3 (00:17:06):
Yeah, I appreciate that. So the reason we've been able to do what we've done is because of our people like number one, that's one of the biggest strengths that we have. I mean, I think there's some other things that come after that. We have a really well-known brand. We're consistently the number one team in Minnesota and Wisconsin, which rankings to me don't mean much of anything. I think there's a lot of other things that are far more important, but of course that might be something easy to say from someone. For us that's been number one so many times. But I think when I look at our company today, it's very, it's all run as a team. 90% of the business through the entire production of our company comes generated from the company, which is very rare. So we don't have, in our model, we don't have a lot of agent source business, meaning agents are going out and prospecting or going to their friends and family.
Speaker 3 (00:18:08):
They are coming to our company because we are providing them with opportunities and we've created a very intuitive streamlined process to allow them to focus on the things that they love to do. And we've taken care of the things that I learned from my own journey of being an agent that I didn't love to do and I wasn't good at, right? And so we're constantly implementing different things into the structure that make life easier for the agents. And I think often agents don't even know the things that they love to do or don't love to do until you get a chance to step back or step out and reflect and go, gosh, what portions of my job do I really not like or am I not really good at? And that's what I had the opportunity to do is when I stepped in that team leader spot, I started realizing the things.
Speaker 3 (00:18:56):
I was like, gosh, I really wasn't good at this. I really struggled here. And if we could just build some of these things for all the other agents and the things that they're going through will save them the future pain that they don't know that someday they're going to have. And so that's what really our journey has been and it's set up a lot of other things that we've now been able to implement and put in place. And the branding is I think what most people know us for. We've created one of the more well-known brands in a local DMAs. And I think that's what's pretty cool. Minnesota is not a small Minneapolis St. Paul Small, not the mega size, but I mean it's in the top 15, right? And so I mean you talk about getting to a point where you have millions and millions of people that know who you are, top of mind, that is not easy to do.
Speaker 3 (00:19:54):
I think there's some luck that we had of riding an economic wave and an industry that was going up. And so I don't know how many more companies you'll see do what we did in the near future. The economics just aren't there with the conditions and everything that's going on to be able to go all into the level that we did. So I mean, I think of course we have a lot of great people. There was a lot of skill that went into building this brand, but I'm going to also acknowledge that we were going straight up at the same time in the economy and in the industry. So that definitely didn't hurt. But all of this now put together with the changes that have have created a lot of opportunity for us. And that's the most exciting thing of all of this is I think most companies, most agents, most brokers are sort of where they're at right now.
Speaker 3 (00:20:47):
That's where they're going to be brand wise for a while. There's not going to be a significant amount of musical chairs happening. You either have a brand or you don't, and you're probably not going all in to create one in the landscape that we're in today. And if you are, you better have a big bank roll and be comfortable going in the red for a long time before you get ahead. And there just aren't. A lot of people I think are going to stomach that to that level. And so that's the exciting thing, and we're starting to see a lot more of the agents in our markets recognize that and come to our company because they're not in a position that they were several years ago to go take risk to get leads where now the sales cycle or the customer moving cycle is now 12 months as opposed to before it was 30 days. So now if you're an individual agent and you're buying leads, you're not getting your money back for 12 to 14 months. And so you have to have a really deep savings account to be able to spend forward to that level is whereas we've got this machine running it been in a lot longer. And so agents are starting to see that because there are also still a significant amount of agents agent count versus the number of transactions. So per agent deals is really lowering quickly
Speaker 2 (00:22:04):
A lot there. I especially appreciate that 90% team generated. That's super powerful and I can see why that'd be really helpful in a market like this one in particular. And I feel like the key lever to the whole thing speaking to the broker or the team leader in this scenario is that the margin is gone and therefore the ability to reinvest is going to put you in the red if you want to build brand and generate leads in different ways besides just straight up buying them
Speaker 3 (00:22:32):
Initially. Anyone building a brand is deficit spending. I mean anyone that is really building something substantial, you look at, I mean they are always spending ahead, they're always spending forward. And in an environment where there's uncertainty or there's not a clear picture of, I always think about the Wayne Gretzky puck of skate to where the puck's going to go. There aren't a lot of people right now in the world that know exactly how this thing's going to end and what the next chapter's going to look like. And so to dive deep into creating a brand and doing all these things, when you don't know where the puck's going, you don't actually even know where the puck is on the ice. And so I mean every day it changes. One day you're like, it's going to be the craziest recession the next day. It's like, oh, it's going to be the softest landing and everyone has money and it's everything in between.
Speaker 3 (00:23:23):
And so you just don't know. We've been a little cautious because we don't know exactly what it's going to look like, but we have that luxury to be cautious because of what we have built. And I really think that in the next several years, the branding piece of this is going to be everything, especially when houses aren't selling as fast. When things aren't moving as fast consumers go to the names that they know and trust. And that's exactly why companies market and brand is for trust. And so in a downturn when things aren't flying off the shelf, you have a lot of people that are inbound. I can already tell the market changes that are happening in our market based on the calls that we're getting, based on the areas that they're coming from, based on the price points and the style of home. I can already see where the market is fracturing, I can see it.
Speaker 3 (00:24:15):
I can see where the problems are just on our inbound and those people are calling us because they can't sell their home. They're struggling now. And what they thought, and a lot of 'em still aren't at the level of they're still somewhere between what it was three years ago and where we are today and they're not really willing to do the things it's going to take to sell their home today. And I can see all of that happening. And I always knew that the downturns are where companies really make the traction. And when you have a brand to do it, you're set up and you're so uniquely positioned. When I first got into real estate, most of the agents that I met or saw, no one knew who they were. I mean, they're cold calling and door knocking and the homeowner's like, wait, who are you?
Speaker 3 (00:25:01):
They didn't even know what they did or where they worked or anything. And in a market like this, that's tough. It is tough to call someone that doesn't know who you are, doesn't know your company, and you're trying to sell a solution and they frankly don't trust you. We see newer agents that are getting in the business or just got started and transfer over to our company, the lift that they get is so insane and it's so fast because they're able to, they can be brand new to real estate and people recognize the brand that they're with, pair the right people coming to our company with our branding. And those two things together are rocket feel.
Speaker 2 (00:25:41):
Yeah, man, gosh, a lot of really good stuff there. I want to double back a little bit into, you're talking about when you became a team leader and you recognize some of the things that you were not great at. I also want to acknowledge a lot of the macro economic conditions that have been thematic throughout what you've been sharing so far. And I would love for you to tell the story of the window in your career when you decided to step out of production and to start leading the team full time. And I know that you'll already do it for the benefit of someone who maybe has recently made that decision and is wondering, should I go back in light of I was 35 or 42 or 28 or 51% of the production and then that all kind of went away and the rest of the people aren't as productive as I was because that's the nature of the person who tends to start a team. But tell the story. Where were you in your personal arc? When did it dawn on you? How did that decision go? And from there get into advice for other folks based on the anticipated unanticipated consequences of your own decision?
Speaker 3 (00:26:49):
Oh, that's a big one. I mean, I wasn't good at it, so just to start there, I wasn't good at it. I don't know anyone that does that transition real well. It's hard. And for me, the last years of being in production, 2013 was the second to last year for me, and I sold 147 homes with an assistant. And this is before any of the portals and before all where you could just buy. I mean 2013, I mean weren't a lot of real estate portals were like, here's a hundred leads, here's a bunch of appointments. You had to grind it out. And then my last year of being in production was 2014 where I sold 175 homes, which is like a home every two days. So with one assistant, I was running wide open. And I think this is a fundamental difference. It's really critical that everyone listened to what I just said there because this is how some make it out of production.
Speaker 3 (00:27:47):
Well and others don't. What I didn't do is say, oh, there's an opportunity to go buy leads and I've got a credit card, so I'm going to go get leads and then I'm going to go find people that will take the leads and I'm going to collect the arbitrage. And that's what most teams have done over the last seven years, and now they find themselves in a position where they're not really in a good place financially. And so I built our team out of necessity. I'm capped out, I can't do anymore. And when I started the team, which was in January of 2015, I had all of those, I started May, 2009, so January 15, I started the team. I had all of these families and supporters, so many of 'em that were willing to support me that I had built deep relationships with, that I hosted community events that I gave back to the community.
Speaker 3 (00:28:42):
It's funny, right before I got on the phone, right before I got on this with you, Ethan, I was on the phone and I was talking to a lady, I won't give away her title or company, but there was something that I was working on and we have this entire conversation and the last two minutes of the conversation she's like, yeah, I actually know you fairly well. I was like, oh yeah. She's like, I used to come to all your pumpkin events. She's like, I live in the community where you started. I love everything that you're doing. That was the last thing that she said. That was that all those things that I did when I started were years and years and years ago. And so it's critical that when you're going to launch a business like this, that the foundation is super solid that you have those and there's all kinds of different books to talk about the advocates and the people that are, who are those people that are going to support you no matter what.
Speaker 3 (00:29:32):
They're going to go, I've met him, I've been to his events, I've seen how he gives back. You need those people supporting you and telling others about the mission that you're on. And so that was a big fundamental difference. But the part of getting out of production, that was just one piece of it. I can't do it. The other thing is I tried several times and I was terrible at it and I panicked and had to go back into selling because our numbers were going down so significantly. I remember getting out the first time and going, I was so bad at it that I would hand off the opportunities someone would call to list their home, and I go, and Ethan said, you're on my team. I'm like, Hey, Ethan, here's an opportunity to go list it. Well, you would show up. I didn't tell the customer that Ethan's coming.
Speaker 3 (00:30:20):
And they're like, where's Chris? And then our sales person's got to overcome that objection of someone that either knew me or knew someone else that knew me, and it was a warm referral. And so it was just a really poor handoff. But once we started saying, Hey, Chris hand selected Ethan to show up, then the level of confidence went up like, oh, Chris is aware that I'm selling my house and that he put the right person on the job, then it was a way easier thing. But before we educated the customer about the way that our model worked and why Ethan is showing up, it didn't matter. And the thing is, in most cases in our company, Ethan's a way better real estate agent than I am, but the customer doesn't know that. They only know me. And so navigating that and that transition was really hard. And then what would happen is I wouldn't give Ethan any of the tools or systems to succeed like Ethan, I like you. We're friends, you seem like you're good at sales. Here's 20 opportunities, man, go have fun. And I would provide no training, no information. I had have no structure, no accountability, no process. I had a process, it was in my head and I never delivered it to anyone else. And I'm like, Ethan, why can't you convert any of these opportunities? You're like, well, I don't even know what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (00:31:40):
That was the early days of trying to get out of production. And looking back now, it's like I didn't have the skills. I didn't have the training. I wasn't seeking out any of the right education on how to build a business, how to lead other people. And no wonder I couldn't get out of production because I wasn't even doing any of the right things to get out. I thought the decision of getting out of production was like, I'm out. You're in. I thought that was like, Hey, this is really, I made the decision. I'm out now. This is going to work perfect until it didn't and then I had to constantly rewire and then I thought I had it right. And then I'd like, oh, and it's hard to stomach the losses. No one's going to do it your way. No one's going to do it as well.
Speaker 3 (00:32:19):
It's going to take people longer. The thing is, I had to remind myself that I'm six years into this and I have been selling at a really high level. I've seen a lot of different things. I've got that wisdom and that market knowledge that I can't expect most people to have because of the volume that I was doing. And so with that, I also needed to have patience, which I'm not very good at. So I expect people to pick it up. Why don't you understand I don't get it. You should be able to do this right now. And so all of those things together create a very challenging situation to get out of production. And I think that's what happens for most as they get stuck right there and they don't actually get to the other side. They just step back in and they think, I don't know if I want to have a lot of people around here.
Speaker 3 (00:33:05):
I don't know if I'm a great leader. I'm not sure that this is what I want to do. I just love selling. And then they actually never get to the next level. They step right back in because they're too afraid or they don't have a path or a blueprint to follow of how do I actually get there? And I've been there, you're totally lost and you're a hundred percent out of control. You're like, this thing is a mess. I don't know if I wasn't born to run a business or maybe I'm not an entrepreneur, I might not be a leader. All those thoughts are going through your head because things are crumbling every single time that you attempt to do it. And there's not a lot of information or knowledge out there of how to effectively transition into that space. And so I was just fortunate enough that as this was happening, I started meeting people that were a lot smarter and had already done different things, not even necessarily in real estate, but just scaling a business was a big part of it is I didn't really understand what that meant.
Speaker 3 (00:34:04):
To me, high vision person, scaling a business meant just going and buying more leads. I thought that was scaling a business. I didn't know anything about training or process or people or structure. None of that came to mind. I thought you just go get more of everything on the front end and then you're going to scale it on the backend. And you quickly realized that that's not even close to the truth. And so I got out once I got out the last time, finally it was like, I'm going to sink or swim here. My back's against the wall. I've made a commitment, I've got to figure it out. I'm terrible at hiring. I see the best in everyone. I think everyone can do the job instantly. You're in, I love you. Let's go right now. So I'm hiring people that might not have the right skills.
Speaker 3 (00:34:51):
I'm also not doing them any favors, giving 'em no education. And finally you realize, okay, the problem here is me. I'm the common denominator between every single person that hasn't succeeded. And so then you're like, alright, I got to go on this path of becoming a better person, becoming a better leader, getting educated and doing the deep work that's required to inspire and lead other people to have success not only for themselves, but also for their community, their family, and everything else in the world. And so that's when it all changed for me as I got beat up so many times, I'm like, I can't take it anymore. Something's got to change here.
Speaker 2 (00:35:26):
Okay, man. Lot of really good stuff in there. And you're right, there is not a lot. I mean, that was one of the reasons that I was privileged enough to be sent off on this mission to talk to people who've been there or even are in the middle of it and just start opening up this conversation because you're right. And I have a feeling that a lot of people listening are like, oh yeah, that was me. That's me. That was me last week. Or that was me last year. That was me three years ago. Or whatever your journey is not, I mean it is unique, but it's not completely unique. No.
Speaker 3 (00:35:55):
And that's what you also realize too. When you're in it, you think that your problems are so specific to you Totally. You're just like no one else understands.
Speaker 2 (00:36:06):
So I'll give you one for my own career. So I ran marketing teams, sorry. I created marketing campaigns inside local television stations. I'd make TV spots and ads and things and stitch 'em all together into a proper campaign with its thematic and has all the different sequence touchpoint and all these things. And then I started, I had the opportunity to start running a team of people doing the same thing, but I was kind of like a player coach where I still also had to produce, but I also had to run the team. But no one prepared me for it. They were just like, well, we need a team leader. You're a great producer, you should run the team and we'll give you a raise. I was like, awesome. Sounds good. And just like you described and just so many people watching and listening experience, I didn't have any training.
Speaker 2 (00:36:49):
I thought it was just the same job but a little bit more and it paid better. It's not the same job at all. The other thing you shared, you talked about having a solid foundation in making the transition, and that was more from a market and relationship and database and strength of reputation and brand. But then you also, the missing piece foundationally that you also described was I was really good at cranking out tons and tons and tons of deals and I had done it over a sustained period of time, but it was all in my head. And so I think part of that strong foundation is also the documentation. So give a little bit of color to how do you close that gap.
Speaker 3 (00:37:31):
Yeah, I'll tell you what you just said there. That is the most overlooked piece of, I think in business in general, and it's the word process. When people hear the word process naturally, most people go to corporate. And the bureaucracy of all of that and process doesn't necessarily mean some written documented thing. There were a lot of processes that I had in place that were in my head. It doesn't mean I didn't have process, it just means it wasn't documented and we weren't running the company based on a written documented process. And I think people get that confused all the time. When they hear that word, they assume that means you're going to get tangled in all this stuff and can't get out and it's death by meetings, right?
Speaker 2 (00:38:14):
We need to add chapter six B to the 852 page documented playbook.
Speaker 3 (00:38:19):
Yes. So that's where I think the opportunity is, is that for anyone tuning in, a lot of this is around getting what's in the head of the team leader, the broker owner, the visionary, and get it documented over time because the founders in a lot of cases, know a lot about the business. They have a good idea of where do we want to go? What's our purpose? A lot of that stuff when you're early, a lot of that stuff is coming from the founder or some of the founding members. And that really becomes the foundation of where that company is going. And I found for me, getting all that process down is really critical. Otherwise people are trying to read your mind and no one's real great. No one's really that good at that. Right? And I think that's what I found is every time that we had an issue, I'd always go back to my communication and I'd find that I was a poor communicator.
Speaker 3 (00:39:18):
I would leave out details. I wasn't real clear. Everything was very abbreviated. I assumed people were catching onto what I was saying and I wouldn't close the loop quite right on everything. I wouldn't follow back up. And so I started realizing these things were happening. And now I love having people around me that are asking specifics and getting really clear on what am I actually saying? What do I mean by this? What does done look like? So getting a little bit more specific specificity is a big part of all of this. I mean, it's really understanding how do we all, I mean so much is how we all communicate together. And so when you get a team, whether you're very small, a couple of assistants or really large, all of this comes down to the human element. And that's the piece that I love about all of this.
Speaker 3 (00:40:08):
I mean, I love the people aspect of it and I love learning and growing and the challenges and being in the trenches with so many great human beings of like, we've got to figure this out. And to me, that's the secret sauce to this. When I talked at the beginning about right seats, that also includes you. And so what seat are you supposed to be in? Just because you are the team leader or the successful agent or the broker owner doesn't mean you're supposed to be the visionary. Doesn't mean you're supposed to be the integrator. It's really honing in on what is your skillset, what are you great at? What is your genius? And put yourself in that box and remove yourself from all the other ones. And it doesn't happen overnight and no one has an unlimited budget, but at least have a plan that you're working towards.
Speaker 3 (00:40:55):
So I mean, forever, I was in four or five boxes when we were really small and I was doing probably one of 'em super well, and the other four I was terrible at. But I knew that we were working towards a different level of revenue, a different level of profit to be able to go out and get a player for that box. And I don't think you ever actually get there. You never arrive. I mean, you're just always working towards that. And then you add in, the business is changing and the business is always changing, right? There are different needs and you got to figure out what the priorities are. What you thought was a priority or a box that mattered may not matter. I mean, a prime example of that is when everything went virtual, everyone thought everything needed to be office space in person, all this.
Speaker 3 (00:41:41):
Well then over the next several years, office space and getting together wasn't the priority anymore. And so you may have had boxes that had a lot to do with events and gatherings and things like that, where now all of a sudden that all went virtual and the person that maybe was really good at events in person might not be the right person for hosting Zoom happy hours or get togethers or breakfast or whatever it may be. And so that's where you have to stay in tune with the business as well. It has different needs and demands at different times.
Speaker 2 (00:42:13):
Yeah. Talk a little bit about, so getting clearer on what processes are important, how to document it, how to teach it, how to hire to it, how have you over the years evolved, how much of that stuff you pack up in an onboarding thing versus how some of it trails off into ongoing formal education? Because I can see someone taking all the stuff that they think someone needs to know and jamming it into one package and praying that everyone A, consumes it and B understands it and then C remembers it, which is D impossible. So talk about that tension a little bit, getting people to do it the right way, the Lind all way, let's say. That's
Speaker 3 (00:42:58):
Hard. I would say that we still don't have that completely figured out. There's so many components to what you just shared there. And I mean it starts even before it even gets to that point and that are the right people coming in. So from a talent evaluation standpoint, if you have people that love accounting or love operations and you're trying to bring them into a sales real estate agent role, it's probably not going to work very well. Now, there are outliers to every exception, and I have seen people that are introverted and very detail oriented that have been able to make real estate work. So I'm by no means making a statement that it's across the board, but if you want to give the person the best shot to succeed, put 'em in the spot that they're naturally supposed to be in. But if you don't have the right recruiting process, the right onboarding process, the right vetting process, you may end up in a situation where you have a lot of people in a training where it's sales training, whether it's skills, whatever it may be, you may end up with a lot of people in the room that shouldn't be there.
Speaker 3 (00:44:06):
Therefore, your results of the training structure that you have are unlikely to succeed because you're going to have people coming in that aren't right for the job and you're going to train them, but they're not right. And so now all of a sudden you've given 'em a bunch of information when that's not what they're naturally gifted at and your outcome is probably not going to be the best. But whereas if you really focus on bringing in the right people for the right seats, including real estate agents, and now you bring people that are naturally gifted and it's the area where they're the best, now you give 'em training and the likelihood that they're going to succeed goes up way up. But that's then only if the training is right. So you're no different than the way that most people think about funnels and where you're at in the process of a funnel.
Speaker 3 (00:44:52):
It's the same thing here. They come in to the organization, the agents do, and then the sales training. Now here's the big question, and we've went through this a million times and there's a lot of arguments you can make for a lot of different positions on this. But you bring people in and some people are like they need to know all the systems. You get an operations person or someone on that side of the business, they are going to fundamentally believe that new agents coming into your company must understand the systems inside and out. That could be follow-up boss, CRM, that could be any part of a tech stack or documentation or workflows or whatever it may be. But then the next thing that happens is you're like, Hey, we've got this great person that understands systems inside and out, but they don't know how to sell.
Speaker 3 (00:45:41):
They don't know how to overcome objections. So now you have this sort of cart horse debate going on where you've got a new agent that is trained in highly proficient in systems but doesn't know how to sell, and you hand them appointments and they can't actually get face-to-face. But then if you go sales first, now they don't know anything about systems and so they can get the appointment, but then they don't know what to do when they get the appointment. And so there's something in between both of them. Mentor programs are a very common thing. It's there's a bunch of follow different ways that you can shadow or follow a high producing agent, assuming that high producing agent is doing it the way you want to do it as a company. And so they're going to follow along. And one of the things is I do it, we do it, and then you do it.
Speaker 3 (00:46:34):
And so maybe you go on three appointments and the first one is your doing it and they're just watching saying nothing. And the next one, you're doing it together, you're going to walk through the house and I'm going to do the presentation or whatever, mix it up. And then the last one is, alright, I'm coming with, but you're doing it right. And that's how you really create that growth. And so now you have the sales training, now you have the mentorship, but then you also have the ongoing systems training, which it's just like going through that entire streamlined process of a customer journey. Each step of the way, there's something new that's going to be introduced. It's the same thing with agents. It's like, okay, let's get them up to speed on this. And then we know when they meet a customer, now they're going to need this.
Speaker 3 (00:47:14):
We know when they get an accepted offer, we know they're going to need this and so on and so on and so on. So really mapping out the journey of an agent in the company is super critical. So you can find out, okay, where are the gaps in the current process when someone comes in? And I think that's super important to evaluate and look at. And that's what I just said there is easier said than done and takes a significant amount of time. Everything that we think of and including me takes a lot longer than I think every single time, every single thing that I Classic
Speaker 2 (00:47:47):
Visionary.
Speaker 3 (00:47:48):
Yes. So I think that unpacking that training has a lot of complexity. And I could even add another level to that as well, which is, okay, you brought in the right people, you gave 'em the right training, but if you have zero accountability, you're still probably going to have a problem. So if they don't know where they're running, and most successful salespeople, they want a scoreboard. They want to know what are the points at, where are my points? Where are my sales contests? What's the gamification? How am I know if I'm winning or losing? They want to know those things. And so if you don't provide those, you're just another step down the journey of where your problem's going to be. And so it's super complex and that's why we run in 90 day increments. You take one step at a time and you just keep getting a little bit better each day. You take one step forward, one step forward, one step forward, and over time, pretty soon you'll have the entire thing built out.
Speaker 2 (00:48:41):
So one thing I want to plus up there, because it was exciting for me the first time I heard someone articulate it that does this kind of work. So we have this customer journey, we outline what are the stages of the journey, what are the stages of the relationship? And we often stop there and just teach that to people and expect 'em to follow the rest. This idea of building, and you just spoke to it, this idea of building what the language I'll use as a service blueprint in order to deliver these types of moments and these types of experiences across this journey, we need to make sure that our organization is designed to be supportive of those moments. And in absent that the idea of being able to deliver consistently across that journey is so much lower. And then the layer that you added to it that's super smart is, well, you don't necessarily have to teach everyone everything upfront.
Speaker 2 (00:49:33):
You can teach it immediately in front of these experiences. And then of course from an accountability perspective, we reinforce it over time. Last kind of big zone, I want to hit here before I have some fun questions for you to wrap us up hiring. I mean this goes back to all the training stuff. The first piece is if you have the wrong people in the room at the time of the initial training, it's just all broken. So one thing I want to ask you about, I know you use multiple personality tests. I think the most common one is disc. I would love for you to give a quick go to. When did you layer these things on? Which ones are they and why do you like these as well or better than any of the other ones?
Speaker 3 (00:50:11):
Yeah, so assessments are a big conversation there. Of course there are a lot of people that think you can't assess human beings at all. And then there are others that run their entire business or life on assessments. I think assessments get you close, but that doesn't tell the entire story. But there are different parts of assessments that do different things. And not everyone succeeds at a job just because of their skills. Some it's their heart, some are, it's something that happened and they grew up. Someone may have said, you can't succeed, you might not be able to do this. Some sort of chip on their shoulder that's like, I'm going to show them I can do it. And I truly believe that anyone can do anything they want. If they have that, if they're like, I'm going to prove them wrong, and that thing is sitting with 'em every single day, that person just won't stop until they win.
Speaker 3 (00:51:03):
And so it really understanding what some of those things are super important. But then building profiles and building profiles for the job. And now I would say I would add this from an employment side of things, there are a lot of local laws and I would highly encourage anyone to talk to an attorney about what you can and can't do when it comes to assessments and if they're for informational purposes or whatever. I would just recommend that we've obviously run and vetted everything through that. And so my answer is going to be slightly different based on the recommendations that we received. I just want to say that because I think some people don't think that way about 'em. And the word assessments is kind of thrown loosely around there. And there are all sorts of different levels of assessments and some are very light and surface level and some are really deep.
Speaker 3 (00:51:49):
And what you do with that information varies in different places. But really connecting the dots between multiple things, and I think that's what it's really important, is understanding who someone is so that you can have conversations in an interview around what are their strengths, what are their weaknesses? Tell me more about that. It guides you to make sure that you're making the right decision. Nothing worse than making the wrong hire. And it's actually worse for them than it is the company, right? I mean, I know from my life being in a place where I'm super uncomfortable or I'm not good at something is a miserable feeling, right? Whether or not I say anything about it is debatable because I see a lot of people throughout life that are in a place that there might not be where they really want to be, but they don't say anything.
Speaker 3 (00:52:42):
And so you'll end up in a situation where you might put someone in a box in a company and they might not say anything even though they're miserable. And especially if it's someone that's newer that you don't know as well, you might not have as good of a read on them. You might not be able to identify that they're really unhappy. And I think the goal and the purpose of assessments and all of this stuff around human beings is to help people get to their happy place. And if you can do that and you can get people where they're really fulfilled and they have joy and passion, that type of cohesiveness will last forever. The companies are just, in a lot of cases, companies could potentially be temporary, but the friendships and the relationships that are built when you have people that are in that space lasts forever.
Speaker 3 (00:53:26):
And so the more that time that we can spend on the front end of understanding who we are, and that starts with me. Everyone that is interviewing for the company needs to understand what my strengths and my weaknesses are as well. So we have to lead from the front in a very vulnerable state of like, Hey, here's where I'm really good and here's where I'm not so good, and here's likely the way that you'll want to communicate with me for us to work well together. I think it's really important to have those open conversations because the best teams that I've ever been on are where people are super self-aware of who they are. And the ones that I've been on throughout my life that aren't so good are where everyone's putting a mask on and pretending to be someone they're not. Right. And at some point that gets exposed, whether that's unhappiness, whether that's someone that quits or moves on.
Speaker 3 (00:54:18):
And so I'm just a big firm believer of really diving into assessments to have those vulnerable conversations upfront so that everyone's on the same page and all the cards are on the table. So there's no guessing. And I think being in an environment where you can get to that confrontation first, not in a disrespectful way, not in a super uncomfortable way, but let's have a healthy conversation around how we are able to do this together. How are we able to connect? How are we able to really change the world? You and I? And I think the deeper you can get there, the possibilities are endless. And when you get to that place, you're likely have earned the trust, which is you read Lencioni's five dysfunctions of a team. I mean, you look at those components of a team, those things are must haves. If you don't have that and things are broken, your company isn't getting to the next level.
Speaker 3 (00:55:13):
It's there's no possible way. You just got to be really deep with all that stuff. And I've learned a lot about myself, and I've seen a lot of breakthroughs in other people when they've been in a lot of cases, just feel very justified for who they are. Yeah, that is me. That is me. There's a lot of people that don't really know who they are in the world. And the more that you can create visibility into that, now all of a sudden you've got people that are super empowered to go, you know what? That's me. That's my lane. That's what I do. Yep, that's me. That's not me. And the more you can have that communication piece is everything. And when you see people really start to make that transition to truly understanding who they are, it's where all the breakthroughs are.
Speaker 2 (00:55:58):
So these things are tools. We need to use them not as what is the result, but what does that result mean for us in our relationship and our continued learning and growth. That's fantastic, man. You've been super generous. As your hat says, for people listening, his hat says, be generous. As I mentioned, off the top, super generous with your time. I appreciate it. Just a few fun pairs of questions, and you only need to answer one of the two, and you already kind of teased a couple of them. So the first one is, what is your favorite team to root for besides your own real estate team? Or what is the best team you've ever been a member of besides your own real estate team?
Speaker 3 (00:56:39):
Best team that I've ever been a member of, I would say, or
Speaker 2 (00:56:44):
Favorite team to root for.
Speaker 3 (00:56:45):
Yeah, I mean, I love that you asked me two questions and say, I can answer one when you know that I would just answer all three of 'em. So I like the specificity of that. So the big one for me is that back in sixth grade, sixth I played for a basketball team. I was a traveling basketball team, and we traveled all over the country. We were unbelievably talented. I barely made the team in my eyes. I had no organized sort of background in basketball. I had played at the park at recess of elementary and the start of middle school. And I tried out for the best team, one of the best teams in the country, and I made the team. I still to this day remember the shots and the things that happened in that tryout. And I don't know how any of it happened.
Speaker 3 (00:57:35):
I mean, it was unbelievable the things I was doing. I was like, wow. And I remember making that team, and it all changed for me. It was the first time in my life that I had really been a part of crazy level of winning. I mean, we would run teams out of the gym and we win by 50 or 60. Our center, this is sixth grade, our center was six, six and sixth grade throwing oop dunks, just throw it up 360. It was crazy. And for everyone that understands basketball, we would full court press the entire game, and our center would be on the ball at 6.5 covering almost every single passing lane with his arms and hands. And we would then trap him in the corners and we would just run. I mean, we would run all out. Our coach believed that you never stop. We don't sub anyone in. We don't pull back on the throttle. We actually hit the gas harder when we're up by 50. It was crazy. I mean, some of it was maybe a little excessive. I mean, you're looking at the other teams and they can't even get the ball past half court and you're just scoring one after another. But it was that level of intensity and winning that, that's where I first experienced those feelings of this is what winning feels like.
Speaker 3 (00:59:00):
After that, throughout my journey, I mean, I played for that team, and then everyone kind of went their different directions and different schools, so it all split up. But then I was on some teams that weren't as good. And so then I started to learn how to lose too, which sucks. No one likes the feeling of lose, but the lessons to unpack from the losses, there's a lot more valuable information in my eyes to get from losing than there is from winning. I mean, winning's an amazing feel. And all the different chemicals that are released when you're like, yes, I'm holding that. Another trophy had trophies. I had so many trophies in my room, I couldn't take on any more trophies. There were medals, trophies, anything you can think of. We were winning all of 'em. And then all of a sudden I got to another team where I was like, wow, we're not as good.
Speaker 3 (00:59:46):
We don't have that six five center to put on the ball. We can't actually press the whole game because we don't have the right people. And so I started to see the things that we mentioned on this today. I started to see the cracks. I started to see the problems that we had some with me too. All of a sudden I started needing to get in boxes that I wasn't really good at. And so it all started changing. And then momentum's such a crazy thing because you can go really crazy with momentum and losing, and you can also do it with winning. And so I saw things start to sort of spiral out of control after that team on the losing side because they were missing components of the people and the leadership, the coach, the coaching. And then I found that again, so that was sixth grade.
Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
And then in eighth grade, I found it again with another coach, and it was really phenomenal. Changed my life, and we won. But it was a different level of winning. There was more empathy, there was more purpose to the winning. The other one was just like, we're going to run you all over. And this one was like, we're going to run you over, but it's going to be very graceful and we're going to pick you up at the end. And so I got to see different leadership styles as well. And it's also why I went to college to be a teacher and graduated with two degrees to teach is because I saw what mentorship and coaching did for my life, and I wanted to do that same thing. And now fast forward, and I am doing that same thing in a different way. That isn't what I would say is the traditional in the classroom type teacher, but that's always what has drove me.
Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
And so what, throughout this entire thing, we've talked a lot about people and structure and assessments and all these things, but there's also, what is it at your core that you're passionate about? What is it that you're going to do on this planet to change the world? And for me, I love educating and giving back to people drives me, ignites me. That's what I like. And so you couldn't put someone in an educational coaching box if they didn't have a passion for that, right? They wouldn't get any energy from it. And so it's funny how life comes full circle, that being on that team. And then now here I am today, a lot of those lessons I've taken with me for where we are today and where we're going in the future.
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
So good. I love the layer there. I love the humility lessons learned in between the two winning teams and the difference in the two styles of winning. So much good stuff in there. By the way, for folks listening in your podcast player, that is why you have a 30 or 62nd back button. Click that thing a couple times. You can hear that again right now. What is one of your most frivolous purchases, or what is a cheapskate habit that you hold onto, even though you probably don't need to?
Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
Oh, frivolous purchase. Oh, this is a good one. This is a good one. So a couple of weeks ago I went fishing with some friends down in California. We went tuna fishing. So I get on the boat and one of the guys has got a starlink wifi box, but nothing I've ever seen before. I mean, it's got rivets in it. It's like fancy high density plastic, and it's just a switch on the side. And I'm like, I didn't even know what it was. I said, well, what is that? It looked like it looked like a fish filet board. You would file fish on it. I didn't know. It looked like a cutting board almost. He's like, oh, that's a starlink. And I went, what? So I started looking at it and I was like, I need one of those. I have to have that thing.
Speaker 3 (01:03:28):
So he referred me to the company that built this housing around the starlink satellite. And so I'm just a few days away, they shipped it, and I'm going to have it shortly, and I'll have starlink internet for the couple of trips that I make in the ocean. I'll have high speed internet, or when I go up north to the cabins and different things, I have this now little starlink box. And I never thought in a million years I'd have a starlink internet with internet at home. But for some reason in that moment fishing, I'm like, alright, I got to have that.
Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Yeah, really good. How do you prefer to keep learning, growing and developing, or how do you prefer to enjoy some resting relaxation and recharging?
Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
I mean, fishing's the big one for me. I love to fish. Everyone's got to find that thing, whether it's a hobby or something that they are truly passionate about, that just gets their mind off of everything else going on in the world. And the reason why I love fishing so much is it takes all of my attention. So high vision, brain, always going, ideas, all kinds of things. When I'm in that moment of fishing, I'm just out in nature and I'm focused on trying to catch fish, and it's like everything just sort of shuts down. And I'm just in this very calm state, very focused, and I just enjoy having that sort of refresh time to do that. It recharges me. And I think I've seen, and I would just share this, I've seen this in a lot of parents where you have kids and so much of your time is consumed around taking care of the kids until they go to wherever they go after high school, whether that's college, whether they go right into a career, whatever that may be.
Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
And now their entire identity and purpose was around this person and they've neglected any hobbies whatsoever. And now they're trying to find themselves. So I'll just share with everyone, wherever you're at, it's super critical to take care of yourself too. The thing that plays in my head and has for, and it's the easiest one I can think of, is getting on the airplane and putting your oxygen mask on first. And if you don't put yours on, how can you take care of anyone else? And so having some scheduled time away and being super diligent around making sure that you do it, because high performers have a tendency to just reschedule the passion in the hobby. Things like, oh yeah, I was going to go here, but instead I'll just go do this. And so making sure that you protect that space to recharge is critical because a lot of people, especially with everything that's happened in the world and going on, you can burn out really quick. And so it's critical to have that time for yourself too,
Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Man, with you. Completely on that. For me, it's just walking around outside or running around outside.
Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
I love it too. That's probably where I'm going shortly. Yeah. Awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
For people who've spent over an hour with us, Chris, and again, you've been very generous, thank you. If people have gotten to this point, they may want to learn more about you or about your team or connect with you, where would you send folks to follow up on this conversation? Yeah,
Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
So I have a URL connect with kl.com that has all my social media handles and all the information that anyone can reach out to me. I always love when people reach out to me. I think when I was early on in my career, I always thought reaching out to someone that I was bothering or as a burden, but what I love about it is when people reach out to me, I learn too. I mean, I don't have it all figured out, and I've got a lot of things that we still have to get dialed in, a lot of things that I've got to figure out and grow. And so having conversations with other people and staying connected to the communities is important to me too. So I would highly encourage anyone that might've had a thought or maybe said like, oh, he didn't really close the loop on that, or I wish he would've went deeper there. I'd love any messages that anyone that got something that they're like, oh, I wish I wanted to go deeper here. Send me a message. I'd be happy to help.
Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Awesome. Appreciate it. That's connect with kl.com. That'll be immediately adjacent. If you're watching on YouTube, it's in the description. If you're listening to a podcast app, it's in the description of this episode, connect with kl.com. Chris, you are awesome. I appreciate you so much. I hope you have a great afternoon, however you decide to spend it and go twins. That's
Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
Right. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
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