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Guests:
Jordan Bush is the Executive Director of Thank God For Bitcoin and Former Church Planter and Pastor. - @jmbushwrites on π
Hosts:
Bondor - @gildedpleb on π
Anton Seim - @antonseim on π
Sponsors:
Unknown Certainty - The Bitcoin Ad Company
IndeeHub - Reshape the Business of Storytelling - on X at @indeehub
Bitcoin makes everything better. Join the team and our guests as we unpack how, why, and where we go from here.
Oh my gosh, it's so loud.
Every time.
Oh, yeah, we got to do that too.
Welcome, everybody.
This is Better Buy Bitcoin.
Today we got Anton, myself, JB might drop in at some point later.
And yeah, today we want to kind of behind the scenes, we're kind of talking about just
American dynamism, America, like, where we go from here, what's happening?
What's the like, the big picture of just reality?
And how Bitcoin kind of brings that through for what's happening in the world today and
like the dynamics of global economic policy, politics, and all this other stuff.
So, but just to do short introduction, I'm Bondor Gildapleeb.
I've been involved for Bitcoin for a long time now, and been involved with many careers,
jack of all trades, kind of master of none.
But I've seen how Bitcoin, or I've seen how fiat just ravages pretty much everything it
touches.
And there's no escaping it.
And I'm on board with just death to fiat, long live Bitcoin.
Let's go.
Anton.
I'm Anton Syme.
I'm a filmmaker.
There's a lot of other people who take part in this podcast, who are also filmmakers,
film producers, directors, writers.
I'm a former, former AD.
Yeah, I still see you as, as being in the industry in Los Angeles, the film industry.
I've been a Bitcoiner, I would say since 2017, was immediately a Bitcoin maximalist.
But I was into Bitcoin even earlier than that, since about 2012.
I just, it wasn't until about 2017 that I was, I was all in.
Yeah, so that's why.
Rad.
So, we were just looking at a BeautyOn post this morning, or a BeautyOn post that he did,
when was this?
This was...
Maybe...
Yeah, this, this morning, 5, 5.30 this morning, Pacific time, we're in LA, of course.
Maybe explain who BeautyOn is.
So BeautyOn is a super OG Bitcoiner.
He was, he was around, like, way in the beginning.
In fact, I don't even know when, he was probably there on the mailing list, just, you know,
with one of the original people, one of the original people who even knew that this existed.
If he, you know, you know, he's got a whole thing.
It's look him up, B-E-A-U-T-Y-O-N under slash on, on Twitter.
The man is prolific, right?
He's, he's done all sorts of stuff.
He founded Esteco, which allows you to send Bitcoin vouchers, send and buy Bitcoin vouchers.
It's like, it's just a little teeny layer on top of Bitcoin that allows you to do all
sorts of incredible things.
Like you can send Bitcoin through Twitter, if you wanted to, using Esteco.
It's pretty awesome.
I haven't kept up with it, but I think back in the day, you could go to a gas station
or convenience store.
You could literally pay them cash.
They'd give you a little like printed out receipt.
You scan it and you can buy Bitcoin that way through it.
So yeah, B-E-A-U-T-Y-O-N has been on, on top of it for a long time.
He has, he's been a very big voice in the space for, for a long time.
So this morning he posted about how just American dynamism, what's going to happen with how
America is now posturing with regard to Bitcoin.
And Anton, like, as you, as you know, as I know, even six months ago, it was tenuous
and especially with Yellen and the rest of it, it was tenuous what the treasury thought
about Bitcoin and like, is this, like, is this a thing?
Like, are we going to allow people to do this?
Are we going to come after people?
Are we going to try it?
Like, cause Yellen was basically saying like, no, we want to do a unrealized capital gains
tax.
The treasury, treasury secretary was talking about this, which is the most mind numbingly
stupid thing you could possibly do to Bitcoin.
But hey, that's, that was the previous administration, right?
So today we have an administration who's signed a bill trying to get a strategic reserve,
like not a bill, an executive order, and done all this stuff, which is really setting up
America, posturing at least, to be pro-Bitcoin and pro this new movement.
Now, first question I have for you, Anton, why does this matter?
Like what, what, what's different about Bitcoin that makes this very important?
And yes, I wanted to, I wanted to add as well, had Trump not been elected, there would be
no strategic Bitcoin reserve.
And some people listening may not know that we haven't, I don't believe purchased any
Bitcoin yet.
Essentially America just already had about 200,000 Bitcoin, I think, because it was like
constant confiscated.
So yeah.
So crude.
It's so crude.
It's almost all so crude.
There's obviously other, other things, but they've, they've sold some, like there was
one big auction that, um, what's the guy's name?
The VC, Tim, like Draper or something.
He purchased a whole bunch, um, at auction from one of the, one of the confiscation things.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
And 200,000 doesn't sound like that much, but when you realize there, there's only 21
million Bitcoin, there's maybe, I don't know the exact numbers, but maybe like 16 million
that kind of exists in any way that anybody could have access to it.
And at any given time, there's only about 2 million being traded.
So, and I'm, these numbers are super rough.
You may know better than me, but so if you went and tried to buy 200,000, just do the
math divide 2 million by 200,000, and that's how much there even is available to buy.
So, you know, if you look at other countries that have the ability to buy 200,000 multiplied
by whatever the price of Bitcoin is, we're at about 86, 87,000 today.
So just multiply 86,000 by, uh, 200,000, you'll get the amount of money.
And then on top of that, divide 2 million by 200,000.
And that's how many countries could even do that if they tried to.
And if that happened, the price of Bitcoin would react to that buy pressure.
The price would explode.
So that's what's going on with, uh, the U S strategic reserve and any other country
that wants to try and compete.
So you asked why any of this is important.
So I know that you've traveled a lot.
You've lived, uh, in South Korea, but I know, uh, I think you've spent some time in Hong
Kong too.
Oh yeah.
I have been to over 50 countries.
I've been on six different continents.
I've been to a lot of those countries multiple times, and there are a lot of really incredible
places in the world.
My experience, my feeling is that every time that I come back to the United States, I just
want to kiss the ground.
We don't do everything perfect.
We don't have, it's so much as so backwards, it's unbelievable.
We don't have the classic architecture of, of Europe.
Like I was watching a bunch of stuff on how the city of Venice and Italy was built last
night.
Like we don't have Venice, you know?
But America is, is the best place to live in the world right now for many different
reasons.
However, there are other incredible places in the world.
I was thinking about Sweden and every once in a while I'll get an Instagram, I'll look
at cabins that are for sale on lakes in Sweden or in Norway or chalets in Switzerland.
And we were talking about how had the U.S. not taken a stance that's much more friendly
to Bitcoin and other countries had done that, let's like fast forward into the future.
People that have a lot of Bitcoin, they're not going to put up with it if they're, if
they all of a sudden become incredibly wealthy in terms of Bitcoin.
They're going to go buy that chalet in Switzerland, Switzerland has the best laws.
If Switzerland's not going to charge them capital gains tax on, on their Bitcoin.
And so basically Bitcoin is opening up the most beautiful places in the world, the, the
safest places in the world to Bitcoiners.
So if you are a Bitcoiner, the future is bright for you, essentially.
Oh yeah.
And then this touches back to America because the things that, that Bitcoin changes at like
a fundamental level, which is the game theory about money, we were talking about property
taxes, right?
You can't put a property, you can't, I mean, you can put a property tax on Bitcoin, but
what's going to happen?
Everyone's going to leave.
They're just going to be like, nah.
Like with a property tax, which is just a lien on your property, an eternal lien on
your property.
The state can be like, oh yeah, we know where your property is.
The property's not going anywhere.
It's a plot of land, right?
Like we were just going to go to your property, find you and we'll arrest you or whatever.
We've got the state, we've got all the violence, so we can just do, we can enforce what we're
going to enforce.
And hey, that's why property taxes exist because nobody can really sit down and, and fight
and win at a scale, at scale.
Obviously there's the handful of like ultra and cap libertarian cases of the people who
set up a cabin in the woods and whatever, like had, had at it where the law enforcers
like, nah, we're not, we're not doing that.
But the cost of that is that, well, those people are literally choosing to be irrelevant
for their entire lives.
It's like, okay, that's what you want, great.
But if you want to participate in civilization, if you want to participate in society and
own property, well, you're going to have to pay property tax.
Now Bitcoin completely changes that.
And if you have an administration that is on board with that change and says, okay,
cool, we want to embrace the reality that Bitcoin could just leave, Bitcoiners could
just leave.
They could go to, they could go to Switzerland, they could go to El Salvador, whatever.
We need to be friendly to them or they're going to leave.
And if you understand that, it changes everything.
It makes, as you, as you just said, it makes the whole dynamics of, oh, it's going to be
good for Bitcoiners.
It's going to be really good because there's going to be countries literally fighting over
us to try and get us to go there.
Countries that are on board, countries that figured it out.
Now there's going to be a whole other slew of countries, many EU countries, South Africa,
like any other country that's kind of like going down the retarded communist pathway.
It's going to be terrible.
So we got, we got a special guest in the studio.
What are we doing up in here?
Hey, what's up?
Look at these gentlemen.
Oh my goodness.
This is a Jordan Bush, Jordan.
We were the Jordan, I mean, you can do your own introduction, but Jordan Bush is the,
the guy behind, thank God for Bitcoin.
He is a prolific podcaster and a personality in the Bitcoin space.
Yeah.
Welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks for having me.
I love you guys.
Again.
Always good to see y'all.
Appreciate your perspective on all things Bitcoin, film, Jesus, many things.
Jordan, your, your intro is always so buttoned up.
You want to give it real quick?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Shoot.
I am the executive director of TGFB, which exists to help Christians understand and use
Bitcoin for the glory of God and the good of people everywhere.
Perfect.
I wanted to add to what you were saying, Mondor and Jordan, feel free to jump in off of what
I have to say.
So Robert Kiyosaki, the guy that wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I've often heard him say that
real estate, the, the word real is the, it's probably Latin, the Spanish word real, which
means a Royal.
So real estate is the Royal estate.
We have this mythology in the United States that essentially the King of England wanted
to charge a 3% tax on tea.
And we decided to risk it all and go to war and kick them out and not have a King.
And George Washington, first president didn't want to be King.
Everybody wanted to make him King.
And it was like, no, we're not going to have a King.
And yet there is a Royal estate who owns the, the land that your house is on.
Property's cool.
Houses are cool.
I love a good piece of land.
I'm incredibly bullish on California, Los Angeles, the kind of Hollywood region specifically.
I think California is just the greatest geographical region in the world, a temperate climate.
Everything grows here.
It's just like fruit.
You can go pick off the trees.
It would be wonderful if we didn't have a communist government who is just hell bent
on making life miserable here and creating an enormous gap between the rich and the poor
that the federal government also exacerbates.
But all that said, owning property, owning land is cool.
But ultimately, if the state wants to just take it from you, if they just want to increase
your property taxes, if they want to just put an oil well in the middle of your yard,
declare an eminent domain and kick you off and just pay you whatever they say fair market
value is, they always have the ability to just take it from you.
And so in the future, when the world, not everybody in the world, but when some countries
go on a Bitcoin standard, the countries that are friendly to Bitcoiners are, Bitcoiners
are going to go to those places.
They used to say, he who has the gold makes the rules.
In the future, those who have the Bitcoin are going to make the rules.
And governments, if they want the Bitcoiners to participate, the people who have the money
to circulate into the economy, they are going to have to be friendly to the Bitcoiners.
So it just gives you a little bit more power.
The state ultimately is going to try and control the land.
But Bitcoin just evens that, evens the scales a little bit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You do see this too, right?
You see, you already see capital flight happening.
Like capital flight out of Europe, out of France.
France has like draconian tax laws that they tried to put in place a few years ago and
people just started getting out of there.
And now again, that's much more difficult to do when you've got your assets and whether
it's regular bank accounts or if it's in less liquid things, whether it's real estate or
businesses or whatever it is.
And so with Bitcoin, I mean, it's just so liquid.
It's so it's trivially easy to leave with billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin if that's
what you have.
That yeah, it's just going to be you're going to have you're going to have a situation that's
far more similar to like what Dubai is experiencing, right, where they're incentivizing.
They're trying to attract people to live there with very friendly tax laws and very friendly
things like this.
You've seen Portugal experiment with this.
Portugal has for years has offered I think it's no capital gains on Bitcoin or some other
similar very tax advantaged things.
And you're only going to see more competition for that as Bitcoin continues to to ascend.
I just looked up in Norway in twenty twenty two.
Oh yeah.
I love this story.
They increase the wealth tax by one point one percent.
Immediately.
Yeah.
Thirty billionaires left the country.
Deuces.
So the thing that I love about this story is that they were projecting I'm going to
mess up the numbers or whatever.
They're projecting that they were going to be able to have a net tax increase like the
net tax base would increase by like four hundred million or something like that.
Great.
This is such a solid plan.
We got it.
You got it guys.
And because all the billionaires left, they ended up losing a whole bunch of the taxes
that they were just collecting anyway had they done nothing.
Yeah.
It's like they literally shot themselves in the foot.
And that dynamic just gets easier for the people with capital when that capital is Bitcoin
going forward.
Yeah.
So this is this is actually like a really fascinating thing for me and Jordan.
We were just like to to put you in and to put you in the secret.
Anton Jordan and I are kind of like working on a new project which will drop at some point.
One of the.
So it's like writing.
I was trying to figure out a an argument against like the authority Bitcoin usurps authority
from like a Christian perspective.
And one of the things that that really nailed it for me was.
Bitcoin draws its authority not from the state, but from natural law.
When something draws its authority from natural law, that means it's it's it is above the
state.
Its authority is above the state because it doesn't the state doesn't matter whether the
state exists or not.
Bitcoin can still function, can still work, can still operate.
You can still do transactions doesn't like completely irrelevant what the state thinks
about it.
And the reality of that is that Bitcoin is a higher authority than the state.
The game theory basically says, well, the state can't do anything about it.
Well, the state has to answer to it.
And that's what we're going to see.
And that's why.
Now, how does it how is it going back to America?
Why is America going to benefit the most?
I'd be I'd be interested in hearing Jordan's take on this, especially if he doesn't believe
that that's going to be the case.
I mean, we're going to we own I think most of the world's Bitcoin is in the United States.
I think there's a significant amount of it.
So I think that that's going to help.
But yeah, I mean, it's interesting, right, because, like, honestly, I think for a lot
of people, the problem that they have when they think about government is they don't
really have a framework for thinking about government.
So like they're just like, I don't want people telling me what to do.
And they think that's sufficient.
You know, again, you have the libertarians, you know, they're like, hey, we just don't
want people telling us what to do.
And there's not really any well-defined, you know, like grounded, basically, if you don't
believe that there's if you don't believe that God is there, God created people, God
created these authority structures, then like you're just out there flying, like you can
make stuff up as you go along and you're drawing arbitrary lines.
And, you know, that that is what it is.
But yeah, I think the problem that you have on the other side, the far more common problem,
because most people aren't aren't libertarians is especially within the in Christian realm.
But I think this is also true among just normal Republicans and people who are just comfortable
or comfortable with the level of state control that we have right now is they functionally
have like a body positive move, a body positive view of governance, where it's like, you know,
like you're looking at the you're looking at government and you're like, oh, what are
we going to do if we get rid of this thing?
It's like the problem is the government is like a 900 pound morbidly obese woman.
And and you're telling her that, you know, she should let you should stop drinking nine
diet cokes a day or per hour and only drink two.
And she's like, oh, my gosh, how can I even consider doing such a thing?
You're just how dare you?
You're just such a hater.
And it's like, yeah.
And then there's a bunch of people.
Oh, yeah.
You just you know, you don't really care about people because you want to you want the government
to go on a diet.
And it's like, no.
Yeah.
I want the government to go on a diet because it's morbidly obese and it would be 100 times
more efficient at the thing, the duties that it actually has, if it would give itself to
those things rather than trying to take on 100 responsibilities that ought to just belong
to, you know, again, to your point, free market individuals, families, you know, other cultures
as well.
So I think that's what we're going to see is now, again, I'm more bullish on America
in that respect, because we actually have both the financial capacity.
We have a tradition of I mean, we're founded by standing up to to the world superpower.
So, again, it's kind of to quote the great philosopher Taylor Swift, it's in our blood.
So, again, I'm more I'm, you know, again, I'm confident to a degree or more confident
I would be in a lot of places that, you know, Americans are going to be less susceptible.
Some of the things that we've seen in good Lord seen in Britain, was it today or yesterday
where they're banning banning samurai swords?
I'm just like, this is I mean, what are we 12 like?
What are we doing here?
Like, I just don't understand.
So there's lots of other places that I'm just I'm way less confident in terms of their ability
to move before it's too late.
But the United States isn't in that situation.
So I wanted to say one thing, sort of almost a correction.
You said that the majority of the world's Bitcoin is in America.
The majority of the world's Bitcoin private keys might be in America, or the majority
of Bitcoin companies that hold Bitcoin might be in America.
But and I'm just saying this for people listening or just trying to figure out what Bitcoin
even is.
Bitcoin is everywhere, because it's it is the entire Bitcoin network.
And that's one of the beauties of being a Bitcoin and what gives us so much power as
we move forward into a world that is on a Bitcoin standard.
And as more and more countries just start to use Bitcoin for various things, we have
the power to go anywhere.
So the concept of of America and of the United States in the future, I'm not sure it looks
like what it looks like now.
We, the three of us are at an age where we our whole lives, there have been 50 U.S. states.
There's some territories, there's like Guam, there's like Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin Islands.
What are they exactly?
You don't really need a passport to go there.
But essentially, America is just look like it's look like now we're talking about taking
back the Panama Canal.
It's in Panama, like it's not even anywhere near the United States.
And yet it's going to be ours.
We're talking about taking Greenland.
And in the future, the world is going to open up to to Bitcoiners.
And so, yeah, why do you so so explain to us why you hate America so much that you were
opposing to us going to Panama and liberating it, going to Greenland and liberating it from
the clutches of I put out a post the next day.
I'm excited because I have always wanted to go to Greenland.
And how sick is it going to be to hop on a plane and go to Greenland?
You don't have to use a passport.
Let's go.
Just the driver's license.
Let's go.
I do think I mean, this is something else that I don't know if you guys are interested
in this at all.
But I mean, one of the again, one of the big motivations for going after for going after
Panama is because of the inroads that China's made just economically.
They have been building.
They've been busy, man.
They've been building ports.
They've been investing and again, doing a lot of the investing and getting basically
getting different countries to denominate their debt in Chinese, the Chinese currency.
And so again, that's that's the U.S. playbook.
That's I'm sure that's, you know, Great Britain as well.
But like, that's the playbook is get people, you know, give them stuff and then put the
debt in your own currency and then you're creating demand for your own currency.
And so so again, the U.S. doesn't want China, you know, who is tremendously involved in
Panama to be able to just to close the doors on the giant, you know, the biggest one of
the biggest shipping ports in the entire world.
So that one, again, I can I can from an American standpoint, I can see that one's more defensible
than some of the other ones.
And even I think the defense of Greenland is for Russia as well.
Like it's opening up shipping lanes and well, there's also the gun.
Well, I never thought about this, but Mexico is building it's not a canal, but it's
essentially it's like an eight lane highway with massive rail lines through the bottom
part of Mexico.
So with us naming the Gulf of Mexico, the Gulf of America, it essentially gives us
jurisdiction to stop ships coming through that are instead of going to the Panama Canal
are going to go to Mexico to then ship goods across to the Pacific.
So it's a lot of strategic things going on all at once.
Like if it's strategic at all and if it's not just like, yeah, you don't know, you don't
know where your hands are. Like, you know, Trump is just completely trying to give the
impression that he's a loose cannon.
So you just don't know where he's going to go.
So you can't do anything. It's completely hand tied.
We're going to send a lot of very beautiful new maps.
Is is Trump playing 4-D chess or is he an idiot savant?
And does it matter?
It's like probably both.
And yeah, it's both.
But yes, also, oh, I also want to say, sorry, I keep cutting you off, but I'm almost
positive that China has something to do with that infrastructure project in
Mexico, which they often do, because China, go look at what the infrastructure they're
building in China. They can build bridges, they can build high speed rail lines.
And the Silk Road project is insane.
The infrastructure behind it is completely bonkers.
It's amazing what you can do when you don't have to pay people.
It's just incredible.
But yeah, no, the infrastructure, too, they're building the entire infrastructure for
Africa. I mean, not all of it, but like an unbelievable amount of infrastructure in
Africa that just isn't there.
And it's just like, yeah, unbelievable.
So when they're and again, like the crazy thing is they're in a race against time, too.
Like they're flying like crazy because right now, I mean, they have what is it like
four times more debt the United States?
It's something insane where they have so much debt and they're projecting this
strength. That is just I mean, by all accounts, there's people who are investing
there. I think Kyle Bass is one of them.
He's like they are a paper tiger.
They have like again, they have a demographic cliff that's going to happen.
The people aren't reproducing.
This is basically their one their one opportunity to kind of get out ahead of this
thing in some ways.
And so, you know, if they're the question is, how much longer are you going to is things
going to go on like this before you get some sort of kinetic conflict?
I've got a buddy who's in the Navy who has written this big exhaustive piece about how
like, you know, China's way.
We're just one one move away from them taking.
What's the port there with all the chip manufacturing companies?
Is it Taiwan? Taiwan.
They take Taiwan.
And, you know, it's it's on like it's it's a it's not a good place.
And then there's somebody else I can't remember.
There's one other thing.
I don't know if it's China.
Basically, there's one other strategic place where it's like if we take this, then then
it's a whole deal. And so, again, then then a lot of this stuff, you could have periods
where, you know, where economically we have less of a we have a move away from globalism
for at least a period.
This is somebody is it Ray Dalio talks about this, about how you have these periodic, you
know, kind of like wave like shifts from globalist globalism to nationalism.
And also the sovereign individual thesis, too.
Yeah, exactly.
So. So, yeah.
So we'll see. I mean, again, you could have periods where our economy, you could bring
home a lot of this stuff just by necessity because you can't or you're going to get a
kinetic warfare.
You're going to have to sacrifice lives and a whole bunch of other things.
I am super bearish on kinetic warfare.
Not that kinetic warfare is bullish, but yeah, I just like the connectivity of the world
economy and the Internet and especially with like Bitcoin and the way the capital, the
returns on violence are just monumentally low, like they've literally never been lower
and they're just lowering all the time, all the time.
It's just. For China and America to go to war, like you think about that, like a kinetic
World War, World War Two style war, it's like mutually assured destruction, you think?
Yeah, I mean, well, that's that's like a whole nother level of reality on top of just the
practical economic reality, like the practical economic reality is like.
Yeah, no, it's just it's just ridiculous.
All of our stuff is is Chinese.
Yeah, like they like and then there's the food situation, too.
We're like so much of our food goes to China because they just they have a lot of
people they need.
They don't have as as a as much aggregable land as we do.
And it's just like, well, this is what we got to do.
And then so that's the lower level economics.
Then the next level would be mutually assured destruction.
World War. Yeah.
I was including economic destruction in the actual blowing ourselves up.
Yeah. And then on top of that, you know, you get into the the fringe, the fringe
understanding of reality, which is like MH370, like hidden physics and the whole that
whole other thing, which is another rabbit hole to touch on at some point for this
podcast. But with that stuff in mind, it's like there's just no war.
War is something that like if there's going to be kinetic warfare, I can see it
happening in space, which is like satellites.
And I think Pippa Membrane, I think, has mentioned something like this.
She's awesome. If you guys don't know who that is.
But there is presently some kind of like.
Call it. Like spy, a spy game happening in space where satellites and
imaging things are interfering with each other and blocking each other and doing this
whole like thing, because these satellites have been out there for decades, I think, at
this point that are just literally surveying every single second of every single inch
of the earth at all times.
It's yeah, it's crazy that it's one of these things where, again, like I mean, you
guys remember that. What was the balloon?
Like they confirmed that that that balloon that was just flying across the country was a
Chinese balloon. Right. I'm not misremembering that.
Yeah, there were multiple balloons.
They only one of them crashed or was shot down or whatever.
But there had been others that had passed that nobody stopped prior.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you're just like, wait, we did what?
You know. But then again, yeah, it's like I understand the incentives are such that it
doesn't make sense to go to war.
But like when you have I mean, that's like imagine if Russia did that.
Imagine if that was Russia.
We'd be you'd have Lindsey Graham with his knickers in a knot.
We'd be like we'd be going to war tomorrow.
And so just like the selective outrage based on, you know, again, it's understandable
because of the deeply entwined economic ties between our two countries.
But still, like, I mean, it's just like how.
Yeah, it's like how long do you I think they're playing the long game.
I mean, this is like China's M.O.
Right. Like they play the long game.
China plays go. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
But but yeah, but I mean, that's kind of the thing is, I mean, from I can't remember who
else I was listening to on this.
But yeah, they just are saying China's demographic cliff is like twenty fifty.
Like they're they're they don't have enough kids.
They're going to start shrinking their, you know, their their power is going to be
waning, all this kind of stuff.
And so like this is that they're making hay right now.
But again, like to what end, really?
Like what is if they can't can't overcome the the demographic cliff?
Is it just what like you just store up enough of the world's debt to?
This is interesting because the like big I think China has the second largest Bitcoin
reserves to from Bitcoin that they confiscated second to America.
I'm curious about I mean, maybe you guys know this, maybe you don't.
I'm going to have to go research this.
But like what's China's policy on Bitcoin presently?
Because it's it's almost ridiculous to try and follow it because they ban Bitcoin every
other month. And then on top of that, the incentives in Bitcoin apply to China.
Yeah. Right. So internally, how is that going to affect the people of China?
Like demographics, like we're all Bitcoiners here.
We all have kids like.
Bro, part of the reason we have kids is because we're Bitcoiners and demographic cliff.
But how does the how does Bitcoin affect that in China, in the east?
I don't know if you guys have any thoughts or insights on that, but.
I'm just well, I just I just look something up.
This is interesting.
So you're saying that China is going to fall off a demographic cliff by 2050.
The U.S. kind of would, too, like our our I don't even know if we're hitting a replacement
rate right now, but we have massive immigration like everybody in the world wants to come
to the United States.
Why wouldn't they?
And I just looked it up in China.
I don't know how many people I can look at my people over there.
Over a billion people, they only have they have less than a million foreign nationals
even living in China.
Yeah, they basically have no immigration.
And I just looked it up and the numbers in the U.S.
are about one point two million people immigrate per year to the United States.
Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
And it's because they recognize the they recognize the I mean, they recognize a lot and
are much more real in terms of the the consequences of, you know, of both like just the
call of cultural difference.
Like they are they are a monoculture to the extreme.
And obviously we would say to like unhealthy degrees and and oppressive degrees.
But again, they recognize there is a consequence to letting people into your country who
have vastly different beliefs about the nature of reality.
And they are not willing to in any way concede and let that in.
Now, again, you can you can argue, well, they're missing out on a tremendous amount of
investment and talented people and all these kind of things, which is true.
But those things all come at a cost, especially when the vast majority of people who are
coming in the United States aren't necessarily the talented people.
There are people who are fleeing from the worst countries on Earth, countries, you know,
countries whose economies have been destroyed through, you know, just the the results of
fiat currencies.
Yeah. So again, we're reaping what we're selling to to a large degree.
There's also the new buy a U.S.
citizenship, provided that you are going to create however many jobs and it costs five
million bucks or something for it's like, bro, every single entrepreneurial minded person
who exists like has lived their entire lives in a different country that's not America and
has the money to do it.
They're just like, of course, I will do this.
I will literally I will literally do this as fast as I can.
See, my my my immediate first thought was, OK, how are, you know, terrorist things in the
in the Middle East going to use this?
And then also, how is China going to use it?
So China, now you have now you're giving American citizenship to you know, you've had you've
had like a lot of the people who've been stealing secrets in the United States have been
foreign exchange students who are on these college campuses and they've been leveraging their
position, all this kind of stuff.
Well, how what happens when all of those people are actually American citizens and they have
American rights and they have all these things like you just accused them?
I mean, I guess you can accuse them of treason.
But again, I'm just I'm just wondering on that level, what does the complexity how does that
add legal complexity?
I mean, you're seeing tons of legal complexity.
Yeah. Well, I mean, you're seeing a lot of the conversation right now.
There's a again, a foreign exchange student comes in, starts talking bad about the United
States or something. And the Trump administration wants to kick her out.
And there's people who are fighting against fighting against their their right to do this.
And so, again, how much more do you heighten that if you're you know, if a lot of these
people now have I mean, because again, how many how many millionaires are in China?
Do we want to look this up?
It's tons.
It's I mean, it's it's tons.
It's millions, right? It's millions.
But it's also this interesting dynamic.
And when I lived in South Korea, we saw this everywhere.
South Korea has a dynamic of if you are 18, you have to register.
It's the same as Israel, right?
If you're 18, you have to serve two years in the military.
Yeah. And everybody who's rich in South Korea is like, nah, I'm not having my kids do
that. They're going to go to school in America.
They're going to start in high school.
We're going to buy property in America.
We're going to have the kids go to high schools in America because we can afford it,
whatever the best schools in America.
And then they go to college in America and the whole thing.
And then they go back to to Korea after all their schooling is done.
A similar thing happens with China, as we're all well aware.
All of the rich kids in China go and study in Europe and they go and study in American
universities and the rest of it.
And then they go back to China.
And so it's like.
The amount of Chinese nationals and Korean nationals who have who I know personally,
who are my age, who have dual, I think, dual citizenship with the United States and
Korea or China, it's so many like I've witnessed this over and over and over again.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And this is where I mean, I look at.
Yeah. I mean, do you know, like, I mean, Mitch McConnell, arguably the most powerful
up until he's now not sentient, basically.
But but he I mean, he's married to married to the daughter of this giant Chinese
shipping magnet, like one of the wealthiest families in China.
He's married to her. And you're just like this.
And then you find all these there's all these spies.
You're like all of these guys are farming out the United States left, right and center
for years. They've been doing this.
And so, I mean, because, again, it's the same logic as what happened with the with the
United States and the UK.
Like you basically central bankers get in there.
They suck out the life of this of the country through the economy, suck out the life
blood via the money, and then they move on to the next host.
And so the United States has been the has been the next host for the last hundred
whatever years. And so now, again, that first of all, the thought in the 80s was that
that the next host is going to be Russia.
And so that's why you had all this Russian propaganda of all Russia, the next one,
blah, blah, blah, blah. And then, nope, we weren't ready to do that yet.
And now it's kind of China is, you know, even guys like we just mentioned him, Dalio,
like Dalio's invest in tons of money.
And so he's talking his book, talking about how China is the future.
And again, like there's reason to believe that, like it makes sense on paper.
But again, there are complicating factors to this, like your demographic cliff.
You know, there's there's a whole bunch of other things like the cultural, cultural,
like your culture as a country has a humongous impact on, you know, the way that
things go and the way that the world turns.
I think the bullish case for China is this is somebody I'm a Christian, like there's
100 million Chinese Christians and that number is exploding exponentially.
So I think like the bullish case for China is that number continues to rise.
And those people are having kids, you know, like they're they're happy to comply with
the more like if you look at the demographics of who's having a lot of kids,
Christians have lots of kids around the world.
They value life.
Obviously, the United States killed a whole lot of them, too.
But but you have this thing where, again, as you Christians have kids, they
appreciate life. And so that's one place where depending on how many kids they have,
it can basically I don't think it's going to stem it necessarily.
I'm not going to predict that, but I think it can significantly have an impact.
So, again, we'll see. We'll see.
You know, those kind of differences are huge.
Those kind of factors have a big impact.
I think that one of the one of the biggest factors, if not the biggest one, is that
and there's got to be like a good philosophy about this.
Saifedean has talked about this, but it's the idea that.
The political structure of society and civilization is predicated on the type of money,
so the type of money kind of dictates how our political structure functions, and
practically this this checks out and makes sense if you have a central bank printing
money, your your political apparatus is going to be super bloated.
You're going to have all these problems.
It's just people money grubbing and fraud and the whole thing, which exactly is what we
have in America presently.
Now, if you replace that with Bitcoin, how does that change borders?
Right. Like how does a how does a country enforce its borders in a similar in a similar
way or fail to enforce its borders in a similar way?
Like these these dynamics are are now completely.
Up for grabs like we can we can start to question these weird like is is the West
failing in the order of self-governing nations that have borders, you look at a map like
any world map, there's really clear borders, blah, blah, blah.
Apart from one one or two, not one or two, a handful of contested zones.
Yeah. Is that is that even necessary under Bitcoin standard?
Like that's because, well, if if all the people in Nicaragua or wherever that are
trying to get into America because their country has been destroyed by their politics,
which are just fiat politics.
Well, what if all those people are now Bitcoin denominated?
They don't really need to try and get into America, provided their local government's
friendly with Bitcoin. Case in point, El Salvador.
All the El Salvadorians are repatriated, not all of them, but like so many of you hear
all these stories about like I am so proud in town.
I don't know if you've seen them, but like you see license plates in L.A.
and like bumper stickers and like El Salvadorian flags, like people have lived or lived in
America their whole life.
And now they're like unbelievably excited about just being El Salvadorian for the first
time ever. They're just they love it.
They left during a civil war in the late, late 70s, early 80s.
Yeah, a friend of mine's father in law left when he was 17 and amid a full civil war and
just went back two years ago to El Salvador for the first time.
Like he hadn't seen his sisters since he was 17 years old.
And he was like, it's incredible now.
Hmm. So you were you're saying like basically our borders even necessary.
Well, there's been a huge push for socialism in the United States, socialized medicine
the way that the UK or Canada has socialized medicine where health care is essentially
free. And yet at the same time, those same people pushing for it have been pushing for
free and open borders.
Well, you can't have both because let's say that all medicine was free.
Housing is free.
Just give a universal basic income to everybody.
Why wouldn't every single person in Nigeria or Ghana or Bangladesh come to the United
States? They all would.
And so it doesn't work.
And the only way that socialism works, it doesn't work.
But the only way that it works is with money printing.
You know what country had incredibly predicated on money printing?
Yes. And this is something I saw when when there were those massive this essentially
like a revolution protests in Venezuela.
It was like about seven years ago.
One thing you noticed was that the women had breast implants and a lot of people had
braces. They got free breast implants and free braces.
Meanwhile, you're watching videos of people literally like jumping over barbed wire
fences and chasing cows with rocks to kill cows because there was no food to eat.
So socialism, it kind of works when you can throw endless money printing at it.
It doesn't work when there's open borders and ultimately it doesn't work.
And so at some point there are going to be borders that are going to have to be
enforced. But Bitcoin will end money printing.
So another another way it kind of works, which it doesn't really work, but it works
if you're sitting on a giant lake of oil because like the Middle East, they don't even
have taxes. This is a crazy story.
We were in Kenya last year and there's a guy who we met who grew up as a missionary
kid. He's now living in Kenya and a couple of times a month he flies to Saudi Arabia
and he's working with the kingdom to help basically invest money.
That's like his whole his whole deal.
And he talks about how for the first time ever, he's like, first of all, the kingdom has
they don't have any nonprofit organizations because they don't have any taxes.
So he's like, because they don't need any taxes because they make so much money via oil.
And so he said, but they're starting nonprofit organizations because there are certain U.N.
programs where like you have to you have to have a nonprofit organization or to be involved.
So he's like working on that. But like, so that's that's one thing.
Now, again, is that socialism?
Whatever. Like, you know, that's not everyone's situation.
The other way you can do it for a limited amount of time is how the Nordic countries,
which we always hear about from our friend Bernie Sanders.
Oh, the Nordic countries. Look how progressive they are.
Look at how. Well, yeah, you know, our comrade Bernie Sanders.
You know how else you can do communism for a while is when you have somebody else funding
your national defense. Right.
We have the United States funding your national defense and that's billions of dollars.
You don't have to worry about. Well, sure. Yeah.
I think you can you can make things look pretty good for a limited period of time.
Yeah. Do you know that in in the Scandinavian countries, they essentially have a.
It's like a 100 percent or a 200 percent tax on cars, but they pass an incentive, a tax
incentive back in like the 2010s, where essentially if you had an electric car, you
didn't pay that tax at all.
So a Honda Civic, like a basic Honda Civic, was like a hundred thousand dollars to buy
in Norway. But you could buy a Tesla that was one hundred thousand dollars and it was
like one for one the same thing.
Yeah. Anyway, I wouldn't I would prefer not to pay 100 percent tax on an automobile.
Yeah. Uruguay. Uruguay had 100 percent taxes on imported cars when we were there.
Yes. Same with Singapore.
Singapore might have been the the guys who like actually did it and tested and like put
it forward is like, hey, this actually works.
Yeah. Also, Singapore has incredible public transportation.
You can just like literally the whole country is as is a city.
And so, yeah, like you just hop in the subway and you're good to go.
You don't you literally don't need a car that in any way.
No. I would love to do a future episode on how you had places like Macau, Singapore,
Venice, these these places that essentially became the centers of the world where
everything was incredible.
The architecture, the lifestyle was incredible.
And what made the because I have a feeling that in the same way that we brought this up
on every podcast, the way that El Salvador has been having a massive boom before there's
absolute hyper Bitcoinization across the entire earth, there are going to be new Hong
Kong's and new Venice's that essentially become that way because they are friendly to
Bitcoiners. Yeah.
I'm looking for my copy of Bitcoin is Venice.
I don't know where it went. I know I have.
Oh, damn. The time.
I mean, I when I visited Venice, like I was just amazed because it's like, how on earth did
this place come about? And then you realize like, oh, the reason it comes about is because
they're able to. I mean, you could you just like watched.
Apparently you watched a documentary in this like last night.
But the reason it came about was because they were able to build a city on a marsh, which
meant that nobody could invade them.
So they had this in, you know, in era of we're just going to invade the city and steal all
those resources and therefore we're going to be the king.
So whoever has the bigger sword wins or, you know, right.
But you can't you can't invade Venice.
So then and then the way it's defended, it's like so nobody can invade Venice.
And so then, well, that just means that that's where all the money goes, because that's where
you have property rights. That's where you that's where nobody's going to be able to take
your money. So you can imagine like, OK, cool.
Now we have all this capital here.
We can do shipbuilding.
We can do this other thing.
We can do like extended long form trade.
Like Venice is one of the guys who Venice Venice glass Venetian glass.
Right. Like the reason that all was able to to come about and exist was in the Venetian
glass in particular, because it they basically just did the same thing over again.
Oh, we have this advantage.
The advantage is we can make glass for cheap.
We have another advantage.
The advantage is nobody can invade Venice until Napoleon did, of course.
So so like let's get let's build let's take all the glass, put it on ships, which we can
defend because we nobody can invade us so we can do really good shipbuilding.
And let's trade with Africa and get all the gold out of Africa.
Right. And then the the bead trade, the glass bead trade becomes the slave trade.
And like it's I don't think Venice was necessarily the start of that, but they're a big
part of it now.
So Venice needs to pay reparations is what I'm hearing.
Yeah. Well, yeah. Essentially, all the pirates of the world, rather than going in a
raiding Venice, they would come back from the raids and trade within Venice and then go
back and go and raid.
And yeah, so basically Bitcoin becomes Venice and cyberspace or becomes Galt's goals,
Gulch and cyberspace.
It makes more sense to participate and trade within it than to attack it because you have
you have nothing to gain.
You only have you only have something to gain by fairly trading with it.
You have to put in work to create real value.
To to eat otherwise, otherwise you just you just don't eat.
Yeah. Sorry.
Not a Bitcoin proof of work.
Yeah. Shout to what's his name?
Who's the guy who wrote the book, Bitcoin is Venice.
Alan Farrington, there you go.
I've got it. Someone read that one.
Yeah. The other one that is similar on a similar, similar train of thought, there's a guy
named George Grant. He's a pastor.
He's a really thoughtful, interesting guy.
Lives in Nashville. He's founded a classical Christian school.
I think he's founded a university as well.
Just really historically informed guy.
Brilliant. I mean, just speaks perfectly.
Incredible recall. And he was talking about the development of.
Swiss like the Swiss economy and just basically how it became one of the darlings of the
world. And he talked about how it was it was basically this wasteland.
And there was a Christian monk who went there and just started serving these little kids.
He's like ministering to these little kids.
And over time, these little kids just came around and they listened to him.
And he started like a school.
He's training them up in school.
He's you know, they're doing Bible lessons, whatever.
They're becoming Christians. And so those kids grow up and ends up.
And again, it's based on he's teaching them like basically the Protestant work ethic.
And so these guys end up producing a human ton.
I mean, this is where Swiss army knives were made.
This is where was it like chocolate watches, watches?
Yeah, exactly.
So all of these things started to develop as the fruit of this little missionary monk who
just made it his life's work to just basically serve this this place.
And so then they had so much money from how how profitable and fruitful that their labor
had been, that that's how Swiss banking started.
They had to figure out what to do with it.
And so, again, they have some good geographical isolation as well.
And a whole bunch of stuff via the mountains.
And so, yeah, it's just fascinating.
It's fascinating how these things happen.
And there's like, again, predictable ways where you can watch and predict where these
things are going to happen. You just you just have to have logic to be able to think
through. What are the implications of this?
What's the game theory? What's the whole thing?
As you say, just what you say, what is logic?
Logic is a time machine.
Let's go based.
I just looked at the Bible verse Proverbs 11 one.
The Lord detests dishonest scales, but accurate weights find favor with him.
And I feel like that's the way that that these places were why they prospered was
because they had fair trade within those places.
And when you start messing with taxes and money printing and tariffs and all this
stuff to try and like, I don't know, to punish the producers and punish the
consumers, then it makes the scales uneven.
And so Bitcoin is famous for that.
They had the same gold coin.
Now, I don't think it was circulated, but it was like their reserve currency was the
exact same gold coin for hundreds and hundreds of years.
It's just this is like this is the standard that we're going to use.
This is it. They had other currencies, of course, but like this is one currency, which
is like completely standard as the base currency for hundreds of years to your
point. A concept we can't even comprehend anymore.
Yeah. Zero comprehension.
In our lifetimes, we've watched the money physically get debased.
I mean, cash almost doesn't even exist anymore.
They were saying we had a coin shortage back in the covid era.
And then if you literally just hold a quarter, if you can even find one, a 2023 to 2025
quarter, they just feel cheap in your hand.
Yeah. So even though the quarter was already debased to worthlessness with the little
copper stripe down the middle after 1964, somehow they debased it further and pretty
soon it'll be made out of plastic if they ever even have it anymore.
Like, I think I saw a video one time of a of a Japanese yen.
Like whatever plastic will be too expensive.
I think you could put whatever the smallest denomination of a Japanese coin is in the
water. Tension on a cup of water would literally the coin would float.
Yeah. Like that's how far they can physically debase money.
See that. No, but that actually helps because then if you have like you're shipping large
quantities of these coins, you know, previously the coins would sink to the bottom and you
couldn't access them anymore. So they're thinking of everything over there in Japan.
Floating coins.
Don't have to worry about shipwrecks anymore.
We got it, guys.
You're taking it off your top.
We had started out this episode before starting it, we were going to somehow branch into
A.I. How do you guys think that we're going to bring A.I.
into every episode to bring A.I.
into A.I. is Venice.
Yeah, definitely.
So A.I., we're at this point where there are certain jobs that A.I.
is obsoleting, like elements of graphic design are just essentially like you're not
needed for those things anymore.
But I was thinking about this yesterday.
Once every single person has access to all the tools, it kind of zeroes things out again,
and then you need a skilled operator to use those tools.
How do you think that other cultures are going to fare?
Is is it going to?
Essentially, right now, like the best creators in the world tend to be like English
speaking Americans and everything like that, I've been noticing that people creating A.I.
films are just random 18 year olds from Bangladesh.
And is it going to sort of democratize creativity across the world?
I think I think, again, it takes so it's going to be the people who have time, right?
If you if you have time and you don't have money and you have the ability, you have the
luxury of having time and being willing to spend large amounts of time to turn that into
what we would what people in different, more developed countries would consider not very
not a very good amount of money that, yeah, you're going to have tremendous success.
And so it wouldn't surprise me at all if you get some these A.I.
these A.I. film experts are in these places where they're dirt poor, but they have these
incredible tools and all the time in the world, you know, to to do something with them.
So, I mean, people who are usually dirt poor don't have all the time in the world.
So, yeah, I mean, this is true.
It depends on what you're willing to be.
Yeah. Not evenly distributed, perhaps.
Yeah. And in your question, one of the first things that comes to mind for me is the idea
that. The A.I.
is going to apply to everything like we got code, we got graphic design, we got like
video now, like all all of these like writing, like all of these things are going to slowly
become far easier for vast amounts of people now.
I think what's going to happen to racing it in code, you don't need to be a specialist in
code anymore. And in fact, I saw the guy, the CEO of Replit, I forget his name.
He's awesome, like awesome story.
You got to check him out. He was saying he does not recommend that people learn to code
anymore. This is just don't learn to code.
You don't need to. What you need to do is you need to learn how to think and understand
code and know how how like what good code kind of looks like and how it functions and
how the pieces connect.
So everybody who's a software developer really kind of now needs to be a generalist
software developer, right now, that same concept kind of applies to everything and you're
not you're you're no longer the graphic designer who does the super specialized thing
because it's just irrelevant.
You're now the graphic designer who knows all of the super specialized things and can
bring more value to the table because you're you're more diverse and you can do things
way faster in the whole thing.
Right. So I think as this applies is that everybody kind of becomes a specialist, like
100 years ago, Federal Reserve came about it basically inflation and a deprecating
currency because it takes out this cornerstone.
I was writing about this on Twitter.
It takes out this cornerstone and creates all the specialization.
You have to, oh, we need to, you know, instead of having a cornerstone, that's just all
the pieces kind of fit together and work well.
Oh, well, we need a guy who's doing who fixes roofs and a guy who mends concrete and a
guy who does mason work and the whole thing because this cornerstone has been removed.
OK, so that's the specialization becomes incredibly important.
Right now, is AI good cornerstone?
Probably not. But Bitcoin is.
And what Bitcoin is going to do is it's going to give people the time to be able to be
generalist, to be able to pursue whatever they want to pursue on a.
Like. Like global influence kind of scale and without without, you know, oh, well, I
needed to have a team of 15 filmmakers to shoot just this 30 second thing.
No, you can just kind of do it.
I know it's good.
Go on. The reason I bring it up is.
In the very near future, people are going to have to earn Bitcoin and as the world is
changing insanely rapidly because of AI and every single field that you can possibly
imagine, like I'll throw out one example that was just popping in my head as you were
talking was. Let's say that you want to like straighten your teeth and you want to get
Invisalign right now, you have to go to you have to like put them I don't know, I've
never done it, but you put a mold in your teeth, you have to like mail it off, then
they send it back and a computer does the thing.
I'm pretty sure that right now you could upload like a 3D scan of your teeth, pop it
into Grok, ask Grok to step by step straighten your teeth.
If you have a 3D printer, you could essentially print your own Invisalign by yourself.
Like there are people with the skill to do that right now.
The company Invisalign doesn't even need to exist anymore.
I'm not saying it's going to go out of business tomorrow or anything, but literally it
applies to everything.
And so if people in the future need to earn, they have to earn Bitcoin, they're going to
have to leverage these technologies to make money.
And there's one more thing to kind of draw it all together.
Jordan, you were talking about how China has a monoculture.
They don't just have a monoculture.
They also have a mono-ethnicity, which is crazy, like they're literally Han Chinese.
And they're very hostile to even their own minorities within their country.
But I've never said this publicly out loud, but I've tweeted it many, many times, so I'm
not afraid to say it.
We as Christians believe that all people are created equal, all humans have the same
value. However, all cultures are not created equal.
Some cultures are worse than others, some cultures are better than others.
I literally live in Hollywood.
There are lots of foreign films that I love.
I love weird movies, but Hollywood movies spread throughout the world because the
culture behind the movies made a certain type of movie that everybody loved to watch.
But if you go and watch a Korean film or a Bollywood movie, sometimes they just don't
connect with you because you're like, I don't know, the values in this movie, especially
if you watch a Danish movie, Danish movies are dark and they don't have happy endings.
And so I would just say that America in throughout the last hundred years, I don't know
going into the future, but we've made the best movies because we have the best culture.
And you have to have a cultural understanding to leverage these AI technologies to make
the best things.
And so the people in the countries that have the best cultures are going to do the best
in the future as the world opens up.
Yeah, I definitely think I definitely think it is true.
I definitely think it does come down to the culture.
I would say it's the culture produces the money because the money that a country uses
is in many ways, it's like a bedrock of your whole country.
And so it's a bedrock of touches everything else in the world.
And so what you believe about money necessarily flushes itself out in all kinds of places.
So basically, if you're the if you have a sufficiently good enough culture that you
appreciate scarce money and what in the ways that appreciate the ways that that affects
individuals and people, I mean, individuals, families and just society more broadly, if
you if you if your culture is sufficiently mature to realize that, well, then, yeah,
it's going to be mature in a whole host of other ways.
And so I think it really is interesting, you know, people compare Bitcoin to like a
monetary and open internet versus, you know, like national currencies or like
intranets. Right. And so, again, you're looking at this where, again, China, you
know, again, it looks like based on rumors that like there can there they have their
own Bitcoin that they apparently are mining some maybe maybe trying to figure out what
does this look like? But they have two competing views that are two competing core
beliefs that are working against each other.
So you have this thing of like we will control everything from the top down with an
iron fist. We'll kill our own people if necessary, you know, and because we value the
state control above everything.
And then the other side, you have capitalism and you have, you know, and so, again, they
have they have fudged enough to allow themselves to benefit from from the United States
and benefit from global trade and and a lot of these things.
But the question is, are they going to be willing to fold when it comes to turning over
their capital controls and, you know, turning over the control that they've their
absolute fight, just absolute control that they've been able to exercise over the
currency? And again, it's not one of these things.
This isn't one of these were obviously over a long enough time horizon.
Yes, I think that they will.
What I'm not as confident on is how many countries are going to get in before them,
you know, like again, you can deny reality for a certain period of time.
You can drink your own Kool-Aid for a certain period of time.
And it doesn't take many countries to get in line before you backing up the truck with
the you know, with the amount of fiat dollars that they can turn around and buy scarce
Bitcoin with. Like it doesn't have to you don't need a whole lot of those to get to a
point where Bitcoin gets bonkers, bonkers expensive.
And where you have again, we have these nations who are buying with 50 year time
horizons for buying and selling their Bitcoin.
And so I just think somebody is going to get left behind.
Like there's going to be some huge global players who I mean, well, maybe not.
I think it's possible at least because you do need these extra factors.
Somebody like a like a somebody like these European countries, they're just going to
fall in line because they feel like they have to like they don't have the they're not
governed by people who have these deeply held, seated beliefs like China does.
You really need something like that to to to even fall prey to something like this.
So it's interesting, man.
This is so fascinating to like think about how what's going to happen and what things
might look like in the next 10 years.
It really causes you to question things like what like religious beliefs are not going
to survive Bitcoin, right?
Yep.
Like, yeah, like, whoa, yeah, culture, what what culture is not going to survive
Bitcoin, but like what beliefs like what things that I believe are literally
incompatible with the reality that I have to deal with on an everyday basis.
Like that is going to be crazy, especially when you consider like, oh, fiat.
It's like, oh, well.
Fiat just we can just invent any reality we want because it's all bullshit, right?
Like so, oh, well, well, of course, I believe anything I want because I can like
literally just like if I have enough money, I can just manifest it.
And the money is we're just made up, but manifested by somebody else.
It's like, oh, yeah, of course.
It's all just BS all the way down.
OK, but what if it's not BS all the way down anymore?
What beliefs survive and what beliefs are just taken out?
Just like unbelievably easy to ridicule because the person, by continuing to believe
this undermines everything they do in their life.
Yeah. And this is it's this self it's this self fulfilling thing where like you have
this belief that you have that you have the money undergirding it.
So once you once you buy into once you buy into Bitcoin, then it starts to reshape you
and it starts to reshape cultures around the incentives involved with accumulating more
Bitcoin. And so it really you're like, oh, wait, OK, so I have to I actually have to be
productive. I have to add value.
I have to do. And so it starts to change from an individual level on up.
It starts to reorder even to the to the point that you're making in that in that piece
that you were talking about. Yeah.
So, again, I am super bullish on that.
I think it's going to be incredible.
The overall the overall arc of this is just amazing.
And yeah. And again, I'm bullish on Christianity, the spoiler alert, bullish on Jesus,
because, yeah, I think this is I think that we have experienced I mean, what we've
experienced in the last 50 years has been the bull market for atheism, because, again,
it's the bull market of of a world where we can create reality.
We can create the money to fund it and then just subsidize every insane thing that we
want to to further our own further the ends of a small political cabal, small banking
cabal, whatever it is.
And now that that's not going to be possible to anywhere to the same degree, there
obviously will be people paper Bitcoin.
There will be things like this that will eventually get nuked, like they're going to
get blown up and it's going to be amazing to see who's the first nation to get blown up
because they have because they thought that they could play fiat games and they could
hold their Bitcoin at Coinbase.
Yeah. Anyway, we should probably wrap it up, guys.
You have any last thoughts?
American dynamism.
Global game, theoretical outcomes, changing in beliefs, culture, Anton, go.
Yes, to all that.
OK, I I think everything is made better by Bitcoin and you'd better buy Bitcoin.
Yeah. Agreed.
Jordan. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's going to be good.
We need to get we need to get John in here.
Hadabad, my co-host on the Think Avernaster podcast.
He'd be we've read a ton and done a bunch of book clubs about technology and the
positive to the negative, the downsides, again, just the tradeoffs to it.
And so it'd be it'd be interesting to have this this question on a on a larger scale,
because, again, in the same way that Bitcoin produces a set of incentives and then
consequences, technology more broadly does the same thing.
And and so, yeah, it's radically and we're experiencing the radical reshaping of of the
world in real time. And yeah, digital technology.
Is it is a tricky it's a tricky beast, so it's not a it's a longer conversation.
Indeed. All right.
I totally love it, you guys.
Thank you, Jordan. Thank you for popping in.
Yeah, I appreciate you guys.
See you. See you next time.
And yeah, I'm Bondar signing off.
Got a good day.
And it's all I need.
Everything I want.