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Le podcast JAMAIS ASSEZ est le projet de la Clinique Physiovélo.
Qu’il soit question de vélo, de triathlon, d’ultra-distance ou de remise en forme, on se pose la question: Pourquoi on fait ça? Pourquoi on continue de se donner des défis sportifs de fou? Pourquoi on n’en a JAMAIS ASSEZ?
Hello there, fellow cyclist, and welcome to Ravito, the series to learn everything about ultra-endurance. My name is Philippe Cossette, I am a physiotherapist at Physio Vélo, and in 2026, I will be participating in the Race Across Québec. If you want to know everything about what it takes to do a bike race of over 500 km, well, this series is for you. Grab a gel, let's go. This podcast is presented by Edica, from one enthusiast to another. Hello Ev. Hello. >> Welcome back from the RAC. >> Yes, refueling. >> Yeah, for sure. And just to give some context for people who haven't seen the episodes we haven't released yet. >> Yeah. >> Gab and I already did our, like, race debrief together. >> OK. >> And Charlotte and Guillaume did their debrief on their end. Oh, that's good. >> And the idea behind all this is that they sort of experienced the same things >> in it. So I did the one with Gab, and she told me a bit about what happened to you, but she mostly mentioned that she wanted to let you talk about it yourself. >> Oh yeah, perfect. My pleasure. It was mostly me who had some issues, >> well, >> with nutrition. >> Nutrition, yes, but >> she had other types of issues. >> Clearly. What was interesting is that we complemented each other in our issues and also in the timing. We didn't have issues at the same time. So we supported each other, it was, like, perfect. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And you guys also experienced, well, us and you, you know, at night. >> Well, I found it fun, honestly, >> you know. I think that's one of the things I found fun about us chatting together again because >> I found it >> harder than I thought, >> the aspect of, you know, we talked a lot about the refueling stops, and getting supplies at convenience stores and things like that, and having variety, but I had to carry that variety because my last stop before the next morning >> Yeah. >> was at 9 PM. >> Ah, that's a long time. So from 9 to 6 —and actually, I told you it was before 6, but I arrived at that refueling spot at 8—so I went almost 11 hours self-sufficient for food. >> Oh! Was there, was there nothing open? >> No, there was a convenience store in Tremblant we could go to, and some restaurants, but we really had to deviate. It was like a 5 km descent and a 5 km climb back up. >> Oh no, you don't want to deviate. >> No, no, doing 10 more clicks. You're crazy. >> Exactly, so since I didn't want to deviate from the track, >> I hadn't gone 300 meters further. >> That's it, so I told myself you were definitely going to relate there. >> Or I relate. >> So anyway, I was looking forward to chatting with you about my race a bit. >> But how did you do that? Is it what, almost 11 hours basically of... >> Yeah, yeah, so before leaving I made lots of little ziplock bags with the amounts of carbs for my bottles; each ziplock I had was like for two bottles. >> So I calculated 120 grams of carbs for two bottles. >> Per ziplock. >> Per ziplock, and then I calculated that it was about 2 hours of riding for one bottle, 60 each, plus having a bar or a gel per hour. Okay, so one bottle per hour plus one gel per hour. >> So that was like my starting strategy. >> So around... >> Except I knew that, like we said, leaving with that meant that if I started with that, >> Yeah. >> I could, you know, for sure I was probably going to be below all that. Because, because at one point with the timing, I don't know, >> You have to stop for the bathroom, then after that you start riding again, and you don't even remember how long you've been riding, so I knew it was going to trend downwards. >> So I didn't necessarily want to either, I knew I tolerated 60 well. >> Yeah. >> But I wanted to prepare for more, knowing that if ever >> Yes. >> I was probably going to be closer to 60 , especially at night when >> I'm cold, I don't feel like eating, and everything. >> Yeah. And 60 is still the baseline, in the sense that >> It's better than 30. But, but...You know, it makes a difference, I think, I think over that length >> of time, to be a bit higher than to be at the limit. >> Yeah, but >> but it's hard because, were you really managing to drink one bottle per hour? >> No, I don't think so. Well, definitely during the day. Yes, during the day it's fine, at night... >> but even then, not that much during the day because because my first loop, basically, the feed zones, I had put them all in my saddlebag, but the problem with what happened is that nobody was stopping at the first feed zone. >> You get influenced. >> So there, so in my race I was like, I don't want to stop, and besides the first one is at 60 km, so I was like, I just don't want to stop, I had plenty of carbs left in my stuff. >> It's pretty far, though. Isn't it like at 20 km? >> No, but nobody stopped at 60. >> And the next one was 110. >> Still. >> So I did 110 completely unsupported there. >> Okay. >> So two carb bottles of 60 each, but I went through more gels and bars to compensate because I had my hydropack in my base layer. Yes. >> Just so I had an extra liter of water. So I did it on 2.5 liters of liquid plus gels and bars, let's say. >> For how long? >> 110 km, so that's like 4:30. 4 hours, 4 hours. >> 4 hours, 4:30. >> With 2 liters, that's 500 ml per hour. That's okay. >> Well, like. >> That's okay. >> Yes, yes. >> You can do it. >> Yeah, yeah. >> You arrived at 110 bone dry. Yeah, yeah , well, at like 90 I was dry. >> But wait, was your plan to stop at the 60 aid station? >> Yeah. >> But I let myself get influenced because . >> First thing in your plan you deviated from. >> Yeah, but. >> By the influence of others. But I understand. >> You know, because since it's a...and that's what I find difficult, because since it's a race situation, you want to, like. >> You want to race. Exactly. >> You want to be, you know, and since my training plan was to start things off relaxed, you don't want to fall behind, but at the same time, you don't want to burn yourself out. Uh. >> So, uh. >> You don't want to burn out, so you just skip the first one. That's good. >> That's good. >> I don't know. Looking back—because we're going to talk about the rest—do you regret going straight through that stop, or would it not have changed anything? >> I don't think it would have changed much. I think if I had to do it again, my repair kit was in a third bottle cage. >> Hmm. >> I would have taken a bigger 710 ml bottle and jammed it full of carbs. >> Uh. >> To have a safety, let's say. >> Hm. That's what I would have done looking back, and had my repair kit in my jersey pocket. >> Yeah. >> That's what I would have done. >> Okay. >> Because, because ultimately I didn't stop also because I really had the legs to keep going, and I was like, it would have been stupid to stop. >> To refill my bottles, but at the same time it wouldn't have been stupid. >> But that 5 minutes I would have lost felt like a huge amount in my head. >> But you had enough water to make it to 110. Yeah. >> It would have been stupid if you didn't have enough water left. >> Yeah. >> That would have been very stupid. >> But since you had your pack, you were able to. >> But I still had to, you know, now starting from 75-80, I kind of calculated too. I kind of half-rationed myself, you know. >> You know, I had arrived, but I told myself, I'm going to save some for later, you know. I saw that there was more elevation gain coming up. So I was like, I'll take a little less now, and a little more later on. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's less fun. Yeah, >> like rationing your water. And was it hot >> at that time? Yeah. >> On top of that. >> Yeah. Because that was like from noon to 2 p.m. >> Oh yeah. So maybe technically you could take more than 500 per hour too. Yeah. >> It's hotter. >> That's for sure. Yeah. And yeah, and I was kind of afraid of running out of electrolytes, like, really badly because all summer long, I never tried taking salt pills. >> I wasn't going to start trying them then. >> Good. You listened to the advice well? >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Not to try anything new on race day. So I was like, well, you know, in a drink mix, is it enough for the amount I'm doing? Hm hm. >> And I had no idea how to figure that out. >> Yeah. We have no idea. >> We have no idea, right? >> You can do a sweat test to find out for you per hour >> how many milligrams per liter of sweat, how many liters of sweat you tend to lose per hour, then calculate a ratio and all that. But you have to do a test that's a little more valid because there are lots of tests that are a bit bogus. It can give you an idea, but without that, you have no idea >> because even with that info >> right now in the literature, we don't even know how much sodium you need to replace. So let's say I have your...I know that you would need, I don't know, 1000 mg of sodium per hour. >> Yeah. >> Because that's what you're losing, but we don't know the amount you need to recover from that. Is it 100%, 75%, 25% ? We don't know. So, you understand there are a lot of things we don't know : how much water you lose, how much salt you lose, because that is very variable from one person to another, and how much you need to replace. But we know that over 500 km, you definitely need sodium at some point. >> Yeah. >> And you know, you were already drinking carbohydrates in your bottles that had salt in them. Not all of them. >> But yours did, you had checked. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> And you were going to eat foods other than just gels as well. >> Yeah. So you were going to get sodium. >> What's dangerous is drinking just water and then really >> never recovering. That's when you kind of self-dilute, you know. But >> without knowing it, you can still manage. I think there are people who either take too much or not enough, and it can hurt their digestion, and it can hurt how they feel, too. But it's normal that you don't really know how much you need. And that's one of the biggest questions. >> It's crazy, right? Because, like, regarding the amount of carbs, I had an experience, maybe 3 weeks before the race, of taking way too many and like >> never too many. >> No, no, no, I just >> Okay, but too much, how much is too much? >> Basically, I was coming home from work, doing a 90 km ride. Okay. >> So I took the West Island route and I was riding, and I had planned for it to be about 3 hours and 20 minutes with stops. >> But I left with my two bottles filled with 85 grams of carbs >> each. >> Each. >> Okay. >> Roughly, because I was joking with Guillaume and Gab while filling them, and I was like, "Oh, did I put a scoop in?" I don't remember, so it was way too much. And we had just recorded the episode with the Big Daddies, so I left with two Big Daddies >> full of >> Yeah, and I had eaten Pop-Tarts before leaving. >> Okay. >> And after 1 hour and 30 minutes of riding, I had also finished one of my bottles because the carbs in it were flavorless. So I couldn't taste it, so >> so it really went down just like water. Hm >> hm. >> And at one point, I had to stop because it wanted to come back up. >> Oh, yeah? >> Yeah. But wait, what you're describing to me there, that's not too much. >> It's too much for me. Like >> that's it, what happened? And it was after 1 hour and 30 minutes. >> So it's not that much carb accumulation . I mean, you drank your 85 g bottle, yikes. >> Yeah. >> Did you eat—did you eat two Big Daddies in your hour and a half? >> One Big Daddy? Yeah. >> One Big Daddy >> with the pack of Pop-Tarts beforehand. >> The pack of Pop-Tarts beforehand. Maybe it was also what you ate during the day that made that amount of carbs hard to digest. >> Actually, you know, but >> yeah >> technically it's not that much, but it's definitely probably a lot more than you're used to taking, and since your body for some reason, maybe if it's hotter, it doesn't process as well , like there are so many things that can play into it. >> But that really scared me. >> It scared you, so you like chickened out of eating a lot? Oh yeah, huh? >> But I, I carb-loaded before, but I got scared, I got scared during the race, so you see, I didn't take any Big Daddy because I was like, what if that was it ? >> What if that was it? I bought one, I was like, this will be my backup, but for sure I won't eat it until I have, let's say, only 60 km left to go, so I'm like >> because you associate Big Daddy with >> that event >> digestive problems. Yeah, I think I have a lot of PTSD from all that, easily, like with a food that, like, it didn't go down well, so I just cut it. >> Your, your neutral drink, that wasn't its fault. It's the Big Daddy's fault. >> Well, it's >> and maybe the Pop-Tarts, but the Pop-Tarts were the only thing that was more new, let's say. >> It's new. Yeah, I understand. So that's why I sort of, actually I think cutting it did me good mentally to allow me to continue taking a good amount of carbs. You see what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah, I understand. >> Like, it was like I was giving, you know, I knew it was like a, what's the word in English, it's like a scapegoat. It's like the thing you're going to blame. Yes, yes, yes. >> So pinning the blame on the Big Daddy was easier for me, yes, because you're like, if I don't have it, then I won't have a problem. So that's it, yes, I, but psychologically it makes sense, why not, and you had it there >> Yeah >> just as a backup plan, but you didn't take it, as long as you didn't take it, you had no digestive problems, exactly. >> You're, like, tricking your own mind. >> I love it, but >> so have you eaten Big Daddy since then while riding? No. >> You should do it. >> Yeah. >> Break, break the trauma and do it right away. >> I honestly don't think that's it. >> Yeah. >> because yeah, you know like someone who falls off a bike, you'd recommend getting back on the bike quickly otherwise it blows up in your head. But here the Big Daddy is going to take on a whole new dimension, a big Big Daddy. >> Yes, exactly. When deep down, it might not even be that. Maybe it is, but like >> no, I know. Just to like give yourself more options. If you, because at some point it's going to become psychosomatic, you'll eat another one and get sick just because you convinced yourself it was associated with it, but then >> you can also live your life without Big Daddy, you know, you can just say this food is now on my blacklist, you know. Yeah, >> but you don't want the blacklist to get super long. That's the thing, because it takes away options, you know. >> Do you have a personal blacklist, like >> Oh yeah, there are foods I can't eat anymore. It's just because they're burnt out in terms of taste, in terms of texture, >> you know, I won't name any to avoid bad publicity, but you know, there are some where I'm like, I've eaten too much of that, I'm done. It happens often with clients I work with who are like, I used to eat that all the time and now it's over. Even outside of cycling, you know, say people who eat oatmeal every morning, well it's possible at some point they're like, oatmeal, I can't take it anymore. But there are people who will eat it for the rest of their lives, you know. So it's very different , but it happens more in terms of sports nutrition because you know you have to eat, say, 90g an hour and that's a lot of gels at >> Yeah, and you know, certain types of gels, you might have eaten them and eaten them, and at some point you just got sick of it and >> it's possible that it just won't go down anymore. >> But the more your blacklist grows, the fewer options you have left. >> Yeah. >> Then you're kind of, you're kind of stuck, you know, so >> yeah. >> Hence my advice, but you know >> you just don't want me to have a blacklist, I >> But I don't want you to have trauma, but you could just blacklist the Big Daddy, that would be fine. There are plenty of people in the comments who were anti-Big Daddy who would be happy. >> Yeah, I know. >> But that's it, but I don't think it's the Big Daddy's fault. I think it's circumstantial, probably a lot of things at the same time. What you ate perhaps that day >> the heat, or just the stress. On a day when you have extra stress, things don't go down as well. >> A food that usually goes down fine suddenly doesn't. Why? It could be a whole bunch of things. You know, you know when I work here, I’ll have like two or three coffees a day. That that could have been like >> that could have been it. Absolutely. >> You're right. But it was so close to the race that I was like, this can't happen to me again, otherwise I’ll be terrified the whole time. >> 100%. And it didn't happen to you during the race? No. And I didn't go to the bathroom often, either. >> Oh yeah? >> Yeah. >> So did you not drink enough? >> Yeah, like, clearly. >> So 500 ml per hour wasn't enough. >> I don't think it's enough, but then again, it's hard to say the plan failed in hindsight because I still really hit my goals, you know. So, in the end, I think even though I really strayed from that plan, there are a lot of things that...well, we'll get to my night eventually, but that I did differently, like, it wasn't something I expected, say, eating that much of certain things . >> Yeah. And that eventually it went down, like I had a huge craving for it and I remembered Eva saying if you have a craving, eat it, it'll do you good. Bravo! Yes. So that's what I did a couple of times, but that's it, I had, like, zero digestive stress the whole way. So, I tell myself at the same time , OK, maybe it would have helped with performance, but even then >> eating more. >> Yeah, >> but you still ate your minimum 60g per hour. >> Yeah, pretty much. It's hard during the night. Honestly, it's hard because I wasn't focused anymore. I really should have set alarms on my watch to tell me to eat and drink >> because I didn't have enough concentration left to manage that. And >> that would have removed that mental stress, I think, or that burden. >> Absolutely. It's really hard to drink enough at night, >> I find. It's colder, >> you don't think about it. >> The night is long. For me >> it's a lot of hours. >> but the water in my hydration pack was warm because I’d been sweating, it warmed me up at night while I was riding >> it warmed you up, wow, so it wasn't that bad to drink >> but for me it was more the fact that we were in a section that was more difficult. >> Yeah. >> So there were potholes. >> Yeah. >> So I didn’t want to let go of my handlebars that much. >> Potholes you can't see. >> Yeah. >> Except at the last minute. >> Yeah. >> The number of times I went "Ah no, there was a hole," you see it like, yeah, >> last minute, you can't always avoid them. It’s it’s not easy, is it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So so that was like a combo that made it difficult for me. But uh but that's it. Otherwise, overall, that’s what I had explained to Gab as well. I ate more bars than eating gels all the time . >> And it seems like that too, it made me feel safer having more solid stuff in my stomach all the time. Hm >> hm. >> Whereas in my training, I was doing a lot of gels. >> OK. But uh I found that, yeah, having like a solid base. >> Yeah, >> it caused me less like >> Yeah. Well gels are still very concentrated in carbs, you know. And in the long run over 500k, it can be a bit irritating too. OK. >> Uh so, I think it's a good reflex to have. You can afford it on a bike, digestion is more stable too. You know, >> what were your cravings exactly? You know, was it that? Is it like bars? >> No, no, no. Well no, I think it was just that the taste went down well. It was a chocolate bar and I was like, that one, I think I ate 10 of them for real. >> Yeah, that one in particular went down well and it was like >> yeah, I had, you know, my little bags of carbs in my in my pack and I had plenty of bars and gels and I had calculated one bar and one gel per hour >> because I gave myself the choice between the two every hour >> with the amount of carbs and after that I told myself well if I have a lot more and I finally reach a water point during my night on my own. >> Yeah. >> And I don't want to deal with opening a little electrolyte bag or I'm tired of having a flavor in my water. I could just drink water and eat more of that. >> So at night, I did quite a bit of it on water >> without carbs. >> Oh yeah. >> With lots of bars and gels. >> OK. >> So every 15-20 minutes, it gave me something to do. >> But you didn't have an alarm. How did you manage to >> I don't know. It's every 15-20 minutes. >> OK. But I figured by feel, feeling 15 minutes, I was like, ah, but it's like the night riding feeling where you always think you're going fast, but you're actually—you're at 15-20 minutes, but you were actually at every hour. >> That's possible. The season is ending, the season is wrapping up. You didn't get a bike fit, you're putting it off until next year. But no, the end of the season, or even winter, is the best time to come in for your bike fit because you've ridden a lot, because you have a good feel for your bike, and you'll be able to feel the changes we're going to make. Your winter training will go better, or otherwise, you'll start next season already in a better position. Go to the Physiélo website or call the clinic at 450-486-388. OK, but you see those choco-cherry bars, it's really fascinating because I find them hard to chew. They're pretty dense. >> And I know plenty of people who would be like, "I couldn't eat that on the bike," and you ate 10 of them, you know , like, yeah. >> And that's what's fascinating about nutrition, it's >> we never would have put that in your plan, to have 10 choco-cherry bars, you know, specifically those ones. Yeah. And that's why, you know, you had a rough game plan, without it being really precise, but it's important to be flexible with your cravings, and if that goes down well, then go for it. >> The Big Daddy is scary, don't eat it— choco-cherry, you know, it's not that they're the same thing, but I mean why would one be better? >> But for you, that was it. >> Yeah. >> And it's funny that you say some people can't handle them, because for me, the ones I struggle with are the gels that are too liquid, so those just maple-based, >> that look, you know, almost like the texture of water. It feels like I'm going to gag just taking them, but when they're really thick, like, I don't know, a texture, yeah, like Maurten or like ganache, let's say, it just goes down much better. It seems like the fact that I'm chewing my carbs, >> Yeah. >> Helps me not feel nauseous, regardless of the flavor. >> But you see, for me, it's exactly the opposite. Exactly the opposite. >> I feel like I could see it in your eyes . You're like you're not No, you're not listening to me. But it fascinates me. For me, the more liquid it is, the better it goes down. That Martin gel that I have to chew, it makes me so nauseous. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No, >> I take that and I'm like Oh, I'm gonna like yeah. When when I'm really >> not long after I'm but like it doesn't take much. Maybe one I can handle, the second one for sure it makes me feel sick. >> Oh yeah >> but you see >> Yeah. It just goes to show it's interesting that there are gels of all kinds of textures because >> because after that, we can have >> each person. Yeah, I know plenty of people who don't like that jam-textured gel, but you're like it's my fave because well, maybe not that one, but you want to chew your gel. There are plenty of people who like that, it's fascinating. Each person is really different and it's a good thing that there is now a wide a wide range of products because everyone can find what suits them. >> And even flavors, you know. >> Yeah. the flavor no taste the salty cucumber flavor that one person loves while another finds it absolutely disgusting, you know, everyone likes their own thing and you really have to find it and that's why it's important to test beforehand, you know. >> Yeah and that's it, for me it seems like flavor is rarely an issue. >> Huh. >> So after that I'm pretty lucky with that, like being able to navigate, like being able to have variety there, I think I had like >> 9 or 10 different gel flavors and for me it was like a surprise because I put them in my pockets so I couldn't see and then I'd pull one out and I was like oh well this will be >> Yes, well there's that aspect of spontaneous variety and it's like >> a surprise and that keeps you entertained on your bike because it's long. >> Thinking of what, 17 years? >> Uh I don't know and I hardly played any music, I had my thoughts the whole time . >> I think I listened to two music albums. >> Two albums for 500k? Yeah, that's it. >> Oh yeah. >> And maybe a couple of tunes every once in a while, but the rest of the time, I don't know, like I was singing in my head or like I was thinking about stuff . But honestly, I couldn't tell you, it went by so fast, the night especially, it went by fast but. >> The night went by fast. >> Yeah. But the fact of being all alone, I think, I think the fact that I did it alone, it went by faster than if I’d been with someone. >> Oh, why? Because I think I was just so focused on everything happening and my experience in the night. Like, I couldn't wear headphones because I was listening for, say, cars coming, but also >> I was listening to the ambient noises a bit, and it was just such an experience >> Yeah. >> that being focused the whole time made it go by really fast. But I think if you're two, >> well, you can sort of experience the other person's misery if there’s difficulty, and kind of be like, "Oh my God, I hope this person isn't as flat as I am," or like, you know, I think it's longer when you're two. >> It feels like that in my head, but then again, >> it's interesting. >> I don't really know. >> But I get your point about the music. I also always listen to music when I’m out, but there I didn't have the reflex to put it on because at night your senses are kind of dulled. It’s fine and all to add music even if it’s shocks and you technically hear it, it feels like >> you’re just not—it’s less safe, I don't know, because you already see less. >> Yeah. >> So I understand that desire, but is it harder? I was really happy to be two out there. >> Yeah. >> Because mentally, when things aren't going well, >> Yeah. >> alone, you can really get into a spiral and deep down, and I feel like I would have quit if I were alone. Yeah. >> But did you have moments of spiraling, like when things aren't going well and you’re like, "Why am I doing this?" and " >> Can this just end?" I think so, I had a few, but you see, often >> what got me out of it was that I was alone, but I kept crossing paths with people who were at the same pace as me. >> So we didn’t stop at the same time, or at one point there was a guy— shoutout to Eric, because I know you listen to the podcast, Rick—who had a flat, so I just stopped to see how he was doing. >> We chatted for 2 or 3 minutes, and after that, we ended up doing all the night hills together. >> And we ended up at the same convenience store in the morning, so you know, that was kind of how the end of my night went. But it meant my low points weren't so bad, knowing there were other people who had low points too. >> Yes. >> So I was focusing a lot on, Oh my God, here I am. I wonder where the others are, or like, maybe someone I crossed earlier, how did that go? Did they stop in Tremblant to sleep or, you know. >> Yeah. So >> but yes, it is true that it's a funny race format where often you are all alone, but sometimes you pass people, and then sometimes you stop, they stop, they pass you, you pass them. Yeah. >> But plenty of times you are all alone too. It's not like a normal race format , you know. You run a marathon, there are people everywhere with you the whole way. You're never alone. >> But it feels like maybe here, >> you know, let's say in a marathon format, there are tons of people, you're in such a sea of people that you don't feel alone in your struggles, like. >> Whereas when you just cross one other person doing the same thing as you, automatically they're your friend. >> Yes, automatically they're your friend. I agree. But let's say when you did Gravelous. >> Yeah. You know, we both did it. >> Billions of people. >> Yeah. >> Well, billions of people, I'm exaggerating. But there were, there were people, I was never >> alone, you know. There were always people >> around. >> But I, you see, I felt more like I did Gravel alone than Race Across. >> Oh yeah? >> Yeah, because, well, the weather was also there, and I was, like, I was at the end of my rope. But, but that's it, I thought Gravelous was, it was the mud , everyone was...seeing everyone... >> everyone kind of laughing at how the gear was totally wrecked by mud, and like, >> it felt less bad because I was like, we're all in this, at least there's, like, a thousand cyclists right now covered in mud, it's funny, it's like a party, versus >> being all alone in the mud like that, you know, my >> chain falling off all the time, I was so damn frustrated, for real, way more than just "Oh well, we're all here," it's like it's funny, it's an event. >> But for you, it's the opposite. >> I don't know, but at the same time, you and, how many people did you cross while riding? >> Well, there weren't that many of us on the 200. >> That's it. >> But we crossed, people would pass us, but we were often all alone. >> Yeah, you know, I think that >> We made friends there too, I understand . Yeah. >> For me, there were like 5 or 6 people we ran into quite often and caught up with. >> Yes. OK. Yes, yes, so it was like a journey we were all on. >> Yes, but I understand there's more closeness. Yeah. >> It's a bit like an ultra-trail, you know, where you often make a friend because you run with them for a bit. But in a marathon, even if you're in, you know, the Boston Marathon, you might not talk to anyone. Like, if there's way more people, so it's the same concept. >> That's it. But you know, like when you do an ultra-trail, you feel all alone on the trail. >> Well, I have been, but it's true you see fewer people than if you're doing a marathon. >> Yeah. >> In a marathon, you're constantly surrounded by people. But that makes me feel like you're more in your own bubble. >> Yeah, I get it, I get it. But that's it , I get your point. So was that what helped you avoid the infinite spiral of >> of numbness? And it also meant we talked about nutrition, like who was craving what. >> Ah, interesting. >> So after that, me and Rick among others , we'd make plans like, when we get to breakfast, it's going to be this. Are you hungry? >> Yeah. >> We're starving. >> Yeah, I'm hungry. But you're saying you're not eating enough. Yeah, but I had, you know, there's a limit. To what I could carry, you know? Like I told you, from 9 to >> 8 in the morning, I had nowhere to stop . >> So what did you carry then? What were you eating? >> I had bars, Rice Krispies, gels, and my electrolytes, plus a Big Daddy on top of my bag that I wouldn't touch. It had a cross on it like >> a talisman that would bring bad luck. >> You can carry it, but you can't touch it. >> That's good. >> Yeah. It was David who told me to carry my fears, so that's what I did. >> That's crazy, but did you have enough of all that to last? >> I guess. But >> so you didn't calculate it, you didn't really know, in the end. >> But I had calculated every hour, but I hadn't calculated my cravings in it because I told myself my cravings would come, I'd have a super big craving and that craving would eventually happen when I could access it, you know. >> But at least it gave me >> the desire and the hunger. It gave me a checkpoint, but I wasn't hungry like I hadn't eaten enough, but I was hungry for something specific that I knew was coming >> like breakfast. >> Like my breakfast. I had I had described my breakfast to you c >> No, tell me no. >> That really proud. >> Was it the breakfast at the finish line basically? >> No, no, no, I had arrived at the Couche-Tard. >> OK. OK. >> And that store is like a luxury store. >> OK. Inside, there are tons of breakfast sandwiches >> Oh! >> And lots of other stuff. So, I grabbed a breakfast sandwich with bacon, sausage, cheese on like a croissant on my fat. Wow! OK, >> yeah, I got that. Two hash browns. Oh yes, of course, >> I got a coffee, so I took three sips and I was like, whoa, that's enough. >> Did you put cream in it? It’s missing a little bit of fat, keep going. >> And what else did I take after that? I took some candy for my morning. Whoa! >> And >> all of that went down well. >> Oh yeah, it put me to sleep though >> Of course. >> Yeah >> of course. There are so many lipids. It's not that I'm against lipids. Not at all, but it's just that of the three macros, lipids are the longest to digest, actually. But >> but it feels like I saw all of that and I needed it so much. I think I was really in a calorie deficit. That's the main thing. >> Well yes, your brain is like, don't give me celery, give me that thing that looks like it has the most calories in the world. Plus, the thing that is full of calories, your big need, you refuse to give that to your body, so it compensates. >> Well yes, but >> I mean, it's a great choice to get calories and everything, but like, it doesn't surprise me that afterwards, yeah. Your body is tired a bit because all your energy is on digestion, you know, it's heavy. >> Yeah >> but I had a huge heavy breakfast. >> OK. And after that, I got on my bike. And then in my head, I had kind of finished the event, you know, the sun had risen, I had 70 km left. To me, that was like nothing anymore. >> Technically, >> in my head. In my head, I was like done , I was like I could have a glass of water and head out and I was fine, that was my mindset. My god. >> So then, so then, I still filled my water bottles with Gatorade and I started on my on my little path and >> OK. You finished your 70 km with just Gatorade? >> No, but I had gels and bars left in my in my pack I had >> I should have calculated it for the needs or >> but I had >> how many hours? It’s it’s easy because I emptied and refilled it at the aid station. >> For the 200 I had calculated 10 hours >> and I had calculated max. That’s it. I had calculated 10 hours and 18 hours. So I had 18 hours of carbs. I had 18 powder sachets. No, I had nine because it was divided by two. And I had 18 bars/gels. I had a lot of carbs in >> Yeah, that must have been heavy though. >> Yeah, >> rice crispy treats are less heavy. >> Yeah, >> that’s advantageous for the weight. >> Yeah. Yeah, but it’s very bulky though. so >> still >> more than the gels Yeah. >> Yeah. So I carried a lot of stuff and I ended with plenty of things left, you know. >> So you didn't eat enough? >> No, but because you know when I grabbed my candy, I grabbed a big bag of candy >> that wasn't counted in there. >> That wasn't counted in there. And at my convenience store before, at 9 p.m., I made myself a bowl of ramen. >> Yeah. >> With hot water from the store. >> Yeah. That went down well. Yeah. That’s one to repeat if it’s cold. Is that something you learned from the convenience store episode? Yeah. OK. Completely >> cool. But it served me for that. >> Well yes, really. >> Did you eat the little pepperoni sticks ? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, >> I bought two of those. I ate one that day and one the next morning. >> OK. >> And otherwise ham sandwiches with mustard, not with cage-free eggs or fair-trade eggs. No. >> OK. But you see with all that, even just your sandwich, you had some sodium there. Yeah, >> it was fine. >> Yeah, >> in my opinion, I don't think >> but that was after 110 you know, that was at my 110 km mark, so yeah. >> but after that >> yeah >> that that needs to be recovered, I can't >> you know, your sodium, you need it starting from about 4 hours or more, you know, so at the limit even for your first 110 km, if it's not super high in sodium and you already had some in your drinks a little. You're fine there. H >> h >> it's after that where you can't just afford to take only carbs and not think about sodium. That's more it. >> No, that's it. >> But I think you were fine without knowing it. >> Yeah, but I was really afraid of running out of gear. So that's why I carried so much stuff. I calculated, actually, I calculated every hour what I would need and I brought it regardless. >> And I was certain that I wouldn't touch some of those things because I would have cravings. >> But you did the right thing. I think it's better to do that, to have too much because you don't know >> also when you might have mechanical problems, it's going to take longer and >> even if you're not riding during that time, you have to eat, you know, it lengthens your time there, so no, 100%. And you know, in the context of the 500 , and since we had a base camp, in the end I didn't need much gear, you know, because I had changed before leaving for the night. I had brought an extra layer for when it would get colder. >> Yeah. So my bag could have been essentially empty if I didn't have food in it, you know. >> Yeah. >> So after that, I could really, I had the luxury of that volume, let's say, which didn't bother me because it wasn't like a frame bag or >> Yeah. >> So it was actually not too bad for that . And my light gear, it's all in the front, it's integrated. so >> and are there any foods you got really tired of more than you thought or that >> uh >> because you have the bars, the gels, there were powder flavors >> because I had sachets of lots of flavors. >> OK. >> And uh it was the pink lemonade one that I was like I took two and I was like that's going to be it, that's going to be all. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. >> Do you know why? >> It just didn't go down as well. >> I don't know. Maybe associated with a mental slump. It was while I was drinking it. So that >> a lot of nutrition association and >> that's fine. That's good. >> There are a lot of red flags in everything I say. I am convinced. >> After all, if it if it works, why it's fine. But after that, you see the pink lemonade, I drank some just yesterday while biking, so it's not a big deal. >> It was fine. >> Yeah, for sure. >> It had gone back to normal. For sure. >> Yeah, but for sure there are things that in a really long race context, you'll get tired of that you'll be able to eat again. It's normal and it's fine . >> Yeah, I tell myself >> did you brush your teeth at the base? >> The base of I did that. And >> it feels good. >> Yeah. And I would have never done that. I would have never thought to do that. >> It it really did me good. And I had wet ones too to wash myself. Hm to remove the layer of dust and everything. Yeah >> yeah because after just after 3 hours of bathing you're covered >> or >> so no, that really feels good. I changed before heading back out so all that all that made it so I was in a better mood to digest food then. >> Did you feel like not heading back out for your 300k? Yeah, >> it's tough. >> Yeah, I found I found that it was tough because >> as fun as the event is, I find the atmosphere is too nice at the base camp . There should be like a zone only for runners. >> Hm. A boring zone. >> Boring zone. Boring zone that encourages leaving. You have to taste your past boring a lot. Exactly. There should there should be no music, like everyone is people not welcoming because because it's like people are too nice, they ask you how it's going and then you chat and then you know you sit down you you know >> or you hire mean volunteers who don't want to be there. >> Yeah yeah yeah. You know you have like a dinner included so they give you a little participant dinner, it was like pasta with tomato sauce on it. I'm like well I'll eat and I'll so then you know you're like without realizing it you've been there an hour and you're like I have to head back out but I don't want to >> no, how long did you stay? I stayed there for about an hour and ten minutes . >> Still. >> But >> but that must be about the case for everyone. >> Exactly. I had calculated that I really had no choice but to make a substantial stop at some point to, you know, fix my bike, change, and eat a little. >> I mean, it's good to eat some real food . Not that it's fake food, but, you know, bars get old after a while. >> Yeah. >> You crave eating something hot, of... >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I get it. >> Yeah. The pasta was in the microwave there. But, but I get what you mean. >> They tried to make it bland, but it didn't work. >> Well, honestly, it would have had to not be that good, because otherwise I would have had too much. Yeah, yeah, I understand. >> Yeah. >> OK. >> But yeah, so I had a hard time getting going again, and that’s when I put on my second music album to pump myself up , leaving the transition zone like, " Okay, yeah, I'm having fun." >> What time was it when you went through? >> Around 5:00, maybe 5:30. >> OK. So you still had a little bit of daylight before heading into the night. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Did you find the nutrition part hard during the night? You know, like, was everything going down as easily at night as it was during the day? Was that an issue? >> Uh, well, I had less of an appetite. >> Hm. You know, it's like, the fact that my body wanted to sleep and I was proposing that we keep exercising and eating, it just wasn't something it wanted to cooperate with for another chocolate bar. >> Yeah, "We're not sleeping, but look, look what I've got for you here.""I've got more chocolate bars." >> Yeah, that's, that's tough. I feel like mentally your body is like, "Okay, but I'm supposed to be sleeping.""Why are you giving me food?""Why aren't we sleeping?" >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Huh. >> Yeah. And at one point, that's it, you know, I laid down for like 30 minutes. >> Yeah. >> To sleep, because it felt like I no longer had that fatigue signal since I was so tired all the time... >> That I didn't know if I was exhausted or if I needed to sleep. >> But it was more that my heart rate wouldn't go up anymore. >> Yeah. >> And my perceived effort was way too hard. But I kept fueling myself. So at first, I was like, "Oh well, I'm probably not eating enough." So I tried to give it more. >> But it wouldn't go back up. So I was like, "Okay, this has to be sleep." to lie down. >> And that 30 minutes, do you feel like it made a difference? Yeah, >> yeah, yeah. >> It like rebooted you. >> It's crazy. And it was the worst sleep I've ever had in my entire life. The worst, on a park bench with your girlfriend checking on you >> with like, like survival blankets there . >> Yeah. I saw some photos, it’s, it’s cute. >> So, so you know in the, you know deep down that's it, I had, it's the worst sleep ever. And after that, I just started back up and then I crossed paths with Rick with his flat and, uh, Manu started off well. >> Yeah, I get it. >> Yeah. >> OK. >> So, but that's my epic journey. >> Yeah. >> But I also wanted us to talk about your epic journey because you gave me a few snippets or >> and especially since the first thing you told me when I asked how yours went , you said "Oh my God". Ah yes, indeed, it wasn't easy. >> There are more and more of you following us on social media. To continue providing you with quality content, Physiové needs you. Subscribe to our various platforms and let us know which future topics you might be interested in. It's not my first ultra rodeo that's gone wrong. I've done many ultra-trail races that went poorly for all sorts of reasons. So I was like, >> I think I have a good level of resilience. That helped me. >> But why, why do you think you have so many events that don't go well? >> Well, you know, for 5 years I've been doing one ultra trip race per year of about 50-60 km. >> Yeah. >> And this year, a week before the QMT, I did Boréalis. >> Yeah. 46 km, and it was my first time in 5 years that it went well from A to Z. >> OK. >> At least that's lucky because they are two intense events close together. Lucky it went well. You know, if I had had a bad race and then, a week later, I had to do another race that didn't go well, you know, that, that, that takes a lot of resilience. It went super well there, and it went poorly here for a lot of reasons. I think my digestion is much more fragile than other people's, so I can't eat as many carbs as I'd like to and as I recommend doing. I have issues possibly with hyponatremia, back pain, digestion, hypothermia, all sorts of things. You know, it's always different stories, and you learn from one time to the next. Then I built on that, and probably my race that went well this year is due to all the lessons I learned. And I was very happy with that race, you know. And I arrived at the 200 km night ride feeling pretty confident, you know. I mean, >> it wasn't the 200 km that scared me, it wasn't the elevation gain, it was more —well, not fear, but the night, I had never ridden 100%at night, you know. I've ridden a bit at the end of the day , at the start. >> Yeah, but with lots of M&Ms too. >> Yes, exactly. Eating lots of M&Ms, but you know, not for long, not a whole night. And a night is long. >> You know, we left at 8 p.m., so it was almost dark when we left and we arrived at 7:30 a.m., so it was pretty much dark the whole way. >> That's it. Did you see the sunrise? >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. >> My god, that’s hope being reborn. >> Yeah. He >> Ah, it’s crazy. It’s it’s crazy. Just experiencing that, it’s really cool because I remember around— because the sun rises what, around 4 a.m., no, maybe a bit later at that time. Maybe around 5 a.m. >> Yeah. I I wanted to say 6 almost >> but it was in >> July but the sky gets less dark at a certain point early on. You >> or >> and there I was like, "Gab, is it me or is the sky less black?" I remember around 3:00, 3:30 a.m., and I was so sick of it being night. I remember with Gab, we sat on a bench. I was like, " I’m so fed up with it being night." It’s like it’s like it’s infinite , it being dark. And I just can't wait to see something, to get out of this, because that’s it, I hadn't you know, I have a lot of trouble racing with digestion because it’s really harder on the on the stomach >> for hours and hours >> but cycling usually goes pretty well, so you know, I wasn't really afraid of that and I was like, "Well, I’ll eat my carbs." We had tons of variety, you know, we had listened to podcasts, we were too, but what I hadn't foreseen was the nausea. So, I got nauseous starting at 70 km all the way to 209. >> To 200. >> Yeah. Until the end. >> Oh yeah, >> it didn't, it never went away. It went away a little bit when the sun came up. Hope springs eternal. >> Oh, it's psychosomatic, but it came back. It didn't give me much of a break . And in the past, a really long time ago, I did an evening 10k race where I had a headlamp and I remember at the end of the 10k feeling super nauseous because of the moving light. And uh, it was my first experience and I hadn't really done it again since. And the last time I did a night race was at Ricana, where I DNF'd in the woods with hypothermia while feeling nauseous. You know, but I felt nauseous before it was night, so I didn't associate it with >> the night, but I really think it's like the effect uh motion sickness from the light moving, and on a bike it's more stable, you know. >> But it still took a good 4 hours before it... >> but once it set in, >> it can't go away because you have plenty of that, so as soon as you take >> it's not like you could even turn off your light and >> you can't turn off your light and with Gab guiding because like >> No, but I'll see his light anyway, it'll do the same thing. >> You don't have a choice but to have a headlamp because like >> and that's also the headlamp that moves a bit more. >> I didn't have a headlamp. >> Oh yeah? >> Yeah. >> But I still find it useful when you >> like I said, you check your blind spot and you see absolutely nothing. >> Yeah. >> But I admit it's freaky, I'd turn and I'd see nothing, so I was like, I'd turn. >> No, it remained useful, but once it kicked in around 70k, it never went away. But you know what it is? 6 hours of feeling nauseous. It's long, while cycling. I mean, >> it's >> nausea passes if you're resting calmly and you know, but here you can't really afford that. >> Because on top of that, there was a pretty tight cutoff, and also you don't want to take an hour break during the night to chill and get colder and all that. So, you keep going, and this is the part...the part where there are lots of hills, so every hill your heart rate goes up. When your heart rate goes up, you feel a bit more nauseous. You have to weigh the pros and cons, but you have to keep eating. And that's it, it's about keeping on eating when you're feeling nauseous. It’s just so difficult. I mean, like every time I even took a sip, it just made me more nauseous. So you're always walking that fine line between I need to eat, because I'm in a great position to know that I need to eat, but >> every time I eat it increases my nausea and I don't want to end up at the point where I feel so sick that I can't keep going, so you don't eat too much, but >> then you run out of energy and I calculated that, you know, in the end, over 10 hours, I was eating 30 grams an hour, you know, and that's really not enough, 30 grams an hour for 10 hours. It's half of the minimum. >> Is it the first time you've eaten that little for such a big effort? >> I don't know, I think I've really gotten good at not eating much, and you know but >> wait, you've gotten good at not eating much? Yeah, I think honestly, I think my body has developed a kind of resilience to sustained effort with not enough carbs because I've had all my other experiences >> because, you know, we passed a girl who told us that she had already given up because she wasn't able to eat anymore. I'm like, that's pretty much my case right now. >> Yeah, >> but because I had been there at other times, and like, even while I was doing it, I was like, I don't understand how my body keeps going with so little that I'm giving it, you know. For me, the only things that went down a bit was I tried to drink my drink >> with, you know, the non-sweetened drink —well, a little bit sweet, but it wasn't too bad—and a little maple syrup sometimes. Everything else, you know, I had brought a >> a pouch of rice >> yeah >> to have something salty, you know, at a certain point, and >> I remember we arrived at, for us, we had something open, it was an IGA >> and >> it’s, it’s in Saint-Sauveur? No. >> And I never knew where we were. I was like, "Oh, there's a sign, we've reached Saint-Sauveur, now we're in this town." Me, I >> you were just so focused, it’s crazy. >> ah I I didn't know where we were we left from Terbon we came back to Terbon everything we did in between honestly I just followed the GPS you know >> but >> there was an A&W at the end at about 100 km. And then, so I tell myself "Oh, I'll eat my RITZ crackers." Maybe that's the only thing I think might go down. And it just kept rolling around in my mouth. I remember, I was sitting, my head pressed against the wall, I was shivering and I was eating my RITZ and I was like it's like 1 a.m., there's 100 km left, this is not going well at all. There are all these images of poutine and cheeseburgers, you know. We were at the A&W, everything makes me feel sick. I'm like in a miserable state. Gab like Gab was finished at that moment because she wasn't doing well. She almost DNF'd at 60, she probably said, she told me at 60 km, " I'm DNFing." >> I don't care, I'm too tired and I'm like, ugh, it's been a long day, long night, you know, at 60 km and, uh, finally she, like, she popped with the caffeine, I think. And me, that's when I started to, anyway, I think my body has a resilience to tolerate a bit, but by the end I couldn't do it anymore. And when you tell me at 70 km, "Oh, there's only 70 km left, it's easy, I'll take it," and I had 30 km left. I was like, 30 km is the end of the world , like, it's so long, 30 km. But >> Oh yeah. >> Yes, because by then I had to, like, manage myself. I've been feeling so sick for like, I don't know, 5 hours, my body is like, "stop." And there, I have to, like, try to convince myself to keep going because we're not going to stop at 30 km of course, but, like, it seems so >> so long because I feel so bad in my body, you understand? >> And I remember at the very end, you know, when you know there's not much left and there's a tiny hill, that hill was going to kill me because I must have had >> So much glycogen left in my legs, there . I just climbed, I...I...I...I think I started to cry at that moment. And then , at the end, I was holding back tears because I was at the end of my life. Then I saw 600m on my Garmin, and that just killed me. I started crying. I... my God, I can't believe we made it here . I was crying and we were at the the finish line, you know, we... >> yeah >> and every person that arrived I started crying again because I I felt how they felt to arrive and that it was finally over for them and I I cried again for every person who arrived so I was a monumental wreck there but at the same time it's so much mental resilience >> to bike for 6 hours while feeling nauseous, you know, and not easy biking either. I mean, there are still some good climbs and you're at night, 2800 m plus >> something like that, all concentrated in the middle there. >> Yeah >> about where did you start to pretty much. Exactly. But you know >> Gab was good at reminding me to drink. Mm-hmm. >> She reminded me to eat, well, to eat, I was more or less eating. But you know, every time she told me: "Don't forget to drink, we'll drink on the next hill, we will", and every time I was like: " Oh no, not already", and because you're doing a bit better, so you don't feel like eating because it's going to make you feel sick again. But you know, >> yeah. so you have to, like, ah, that's it, it's that whole mental aspect that is really difficult. >> Ah, it's good to try to persevere through that, because for me, it seems like, probably, and it's for sure not the right thing to do, I probably would have tried to continue for 2 hours without taking anything mm >> h >> and then after that start again and play catch-up, which you can't really do. >> But you know >> well, that's a good question. My question is, would your nausea have gone away? Because I feel like even if you stop eating, your nausea as long as you're in action won't go away. >> Yeah, but especially since your nausea wasn't necessarily correlated with what you were eating. So it wasn't like something that didn't sit well. >> It was the light, and that's why I think that when >> when it rose, there was no more light, so I think that helped me, but by then I think I was too deep. I was completely lacking lucidity, surely dehydrated. so >> you had too much water in your eyes, that made another another one in the water. >> But yes, that's it. It it came back and I couldn't shake it and you know it took an hour after the after the race for it to pass and for me to want to eat and have lunch and everything. But >> that's it, as long as you're in motion even if you stop eating, I feel like it won't go away. So if you know that you still have >> 130 140 km, well you have to keep eating. But it's but I could have maybe done more but it's really hard to >> Yeah, >> it's that everything in your body tells you don't eat and stop moving and you're trying to do that. Hm >> hm. >> Maybe there's also the night aspect, you know, eating during the night. Your body is a little off balance, you know. And maybe that accentuated my nausea. You know what's due to the night? What's due to the light? I wouldn't know. But clearly I you know if I do another 200 km at night tomorrow, I'm bringing ravioli, you know. >> Now will that really help me? I don't know. I didn't think about that. You know it's something I hadn't prepared for. >> No. Uh maybe there are other people who have experienced this and who experience it and have tips, you know. But it's it's really tough because it's like your physiology failing you and >> Yeah. >> It's not uh it's it sucks and it's just really not fun. >> But no >> it's >> and you you seem to do well with carb loading like that's what helps you to be able to >> I don't particularly like carb loading. I find it really hard. >> Yeah. Did you do one for the 200? >> I didn't do an official one. Official no. I ate more carbs but I didn't calculate anything. And it wasn't my event either. You know my event was a week ago. You know for that event did you did you try to calculate? >> Yeah I I had calculated it but we did it more. >> And it went pretty well. Yeah >> but say we rode for 10 hours even if you carb load your first three hours and then it catches up to you you know lucky I was able to eat in the first four hours I tell myself that >> it might have bought me a little you know a little bit of leg juice if I hadn't eaten enough in the first four hours hm >> when it was still going down, you know, we were in full carb-loading mode, we were eating, we were motivated, but you're trying to keep Gab awake too, her >> Yeah, well, yeah, there's that, that was her challenge, and you know, I didn't have that issue at all, I never felt like I needed to sleep or that I was, you know >> that's what's funny too, is that everyone experiences it differently, you know, Gab, she never felt nauseous, you know, yeah >> so, but it really helped me that she was there because, well, I didn't want to DNF because we're a team, so I don't want to abandon her, so it's not just you in the equation, yeah. >> And she was encouraging me, you know, when you talk to the other person, it takes your mind off your nausea too, you know. Because being all alone in your head and feeling that you're nauseous all the time, that's, you know , I tell myself, alone, it would have been long. But it's for sure that your experience, you know, your experience alone would have been terrible, you probably would have DNF'd, in the sense that me, let's say >> I had, you know, I was lucky not to have to go through that. So after that for me, you know, my big issues were that it was cold when I was going down because, like, there was fog and >> that night was, like, really colder than yours. And but after that, you know, it it stuffs, you know. Yeah, it stuffs. But you see, hypothermia, if you don't eat enough carbs, you're going to be colder, your body won't be able to warm up as much. So, there's all that too that comes into play. >> Uh, and you know, honestly, I am very proud to have succeeded and to have made it through and to have done a whole night from A to Z, and I'm very happy. Do I want to do it? No. But you know, 1 year ago in a similar state of cold, night, nausea, I had DNF'd. Just not to this time, even if it's not exactly the same context, for me it was a point of pride, and >> I didn't think much about DNF, I was just >> well, it's going to be >> it's going to be that >> all that time of nausea again, you know >> yeah >> But when you...When you've had a lot of experiences like that, I really think you can build on it, and it makes it so you maybe have a stronger mindset and more resilience afterward. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I mean, good for you if you're looking good, no worries, and it doesn't happen to you. You don't need to go there, it's not fun. But I can guarantee you that 30g per hour is not enough, >> it's not sufficient. After testing it, testing 10 hours at 30g, eating more carbs, it's for sure not enough, you know. That's the equivalent of one gel per hour, you know, because there are a lot of people who >> Yeah. >> start cycling and say, "Well, one gel per hour, I'll take one, that's fine." >> But it's also written on the packets sometimes, like, to be taken every 45 minutes or every hour. >> Yeah. So it's like bad advice, knowing >> or, well, it depends on how long you're doing it, if you do an hour and a half every 45 minutes, it's that too. >> That packet recommendation, we can agree it's not individualized, and >> but yeah, I knew that already, but to actually experience it, you see that it's really not enough, you know, and >> you know, I'd be curious to experience it, okay at 30g, experience it again at 60, experience it at 90, experience it at 120. Do you yourself see the difference of 60? I asked myself that question during the 500, you know, asked myself what was I reflecting on? >> But >> you know, I ask myself that question every time in races, I have trouble knowing if I could be better. >> Yeah. >> You know, I feel like, you know, we talked about it the first time we recorded a podcast together, about like eating just one bar >> when you experience something else, you're like, okay. Yeah, that's enough, but I don't know if that feeling is that at some point you have enough and it just flips the switch and then you're okay, or if it improves. Do you get what I mean? >> Yeah. Like >> is it just an on-off thing >> that you either have enough carbs or you don't have enough >> h >> or is it a feeling that improves that trends upwards, you know >> you mean let's say at 80 you're okay >> is it like I'm not eating enough or enough >> or it's more like the more you eat, the more positive you feel, up to a certain limit; you know, there are studies showing a positive effect between 90 and 120. >> so that 120 >> would be better, especially for your recovery. So I think that's mostly relevant in a context, let's say, of >> multi-stage events, >> the Tour de France, where you're chaining efforts, or backpacking, where every day, you know, you're going to do it again. >> But do you actually feel it? That's another question. Do you tolerate the 120? That's another question. You know, if you don't tolerate the 120, even if on paper it's better, >> well, and you don't feel good. Maybe 90 is better, you know. But uh, >> I feel, and this would need to be confirmed by studies, but I think it's also very individual, >> that >> as long as you tolerate it well, more is better than less. >> Did that make you want to try doing a year of "gut training"? Ah, I'm all for >> I'm already in a year of "gut training. " >> But yes, well yes, you know, I know that's my weakness and I talk about it all the time. And you know, when I DNF'd at Kona a year ago, I said to myself at the time, I'm quitting. It's not for me. I've tried four times. Four times it ended badly. Hmm. >> I hadn't DNF'd the other times, but this was like the ultimate one, and I had never DNF'd a race, so it was super hard on me. >> Mentally, my identity as someone who doesn't quit and all that; I questioned everything and told myself, it's not for me. The next day, I think, I registered for Bromont Ultra and changed my mindset; I told myself, "You know what, it might take 10 times, but eventually I'll finish an ultra race and it'll go well," but I was aware it could keep going wrong, you know. And so, doing "gut training" is definitely something I'm trying to do more and more, systematically eating in the morning before going for a run, you know, rather than running fasted. It's a way to train your stomach a bit, to take in more carbs during my long runs. >> to try, >> and to do it a little bit on the bike too. On the bike, it's never optimal. I need to be better. I struggle to eat while riding because I’m a bit scared on the bike. So, dexterity is harder, which hinders me, but I’m constantly trying to train. Yeah, yeah, how many grams are you increasing by and how often do you think is like >> it’s not calculated enough. >> It’s not calculated enough. Yeah, but >> if I were really, you know, I’m not even good with myself because I’m so often helping others. >> Yeah. You know, I think this year was the first time I made a clear nutrition plan for my races. I did 1.8 and 1.46 this year, and those were the first two times I had a nutrition plan because other times, it’s like you give so much to others that when it’s your turn, you’re just like, I don’t feel like it. >> I don’t know if you have that too, but >> well, yeah. >> I think we’re all a bit >> we’re all co-dependents or something. >> Exactly, so it makes a difference, so you see...if I were really...that might be my next step, to be really more consistent with the "gut training," to calculate it. And rather than...right now, I’m making a conscious effort to think about it, bring it, and do it, but not calculating, so maybe that’s why it’s not yielding results yet. Well, you know, after you know the 200g a night, was that gut training, or was it just that I hadn't thought about being nauseous, you know? >> Well, I wonder, you know if 60 is already your limit before you start feeling unwell, you know, maybe >> if you’re able to tolerate 90, >> you’re able to get 60 in while feeling nauseous, you know. >> Yeah. No, but I don’t know. >> Maybe, no, but absolutely. Plus, you know, on the bike, I can tolerate more carbs than while running, that’s for sure. >> But that was already that amount, you know. >> Yeah, but that’s a good question, because have you ever ridden while feeling nauseous for a long time? >> Not for long. >> Yeah. >> I’ve done a day of skiing, but >> I think you have to experience it to understand how you feel. You know, I don’t even know if, let’s say >> if I were the carb-eating queen. >> Yeah. >> And I was at 120g/hr, if I’m nauseous , am I able to eat 80? I don’t know. I feel like when you're nauseous, all those numbers, they just go out the window because you're just not feeling well, you know. But maybe you're right, that's a good question. I'd be curious if other people experience that. >> Not you next year. >> But I you know, I don't know if there are people who experience that, having nausea for a long time and are able to keep eating because >> they have better gut training and a better baseline tolerance. >> I don't know that many people, you know , who go through that, having nausea the whole time >> and keep eating and keep doing it regardless. You know, I don't know, maybe there's something there to study. Uh, besides that, >> I have so much empathy for people now who have to go through that. And honestly, all my nutrition adventures that don't go well, even though I know the theory, it allows me to put the theory into perspective, you know. Just because you know the theory doesn't mean the practice is easy, and >> good for those people for whom it goes well easily. But there are plenty of others for whom it's difficult. And I have a lot of empathy for them because I know myself that it can be hard. So that's why we work together to see what we can figure out. And >> as you were saying, each person is really different too. You know, your 10 Snickers bars, I would never put that in a plan in my life, but it worked for you, and that's great, you know. Would you actually taste one? No, no, but I know them. I'm like...I don't even know if I'd eat one, but it's a question of texture, a question of taste, a question...it's all that to take into account, and that's what's beautiful about nutrition, it's that it's so individualized. You know, G and I, we did the same event. >> At the same time, same speed. >> And you had completely different issues , >> completely different. And you know, we, I mean, we know the same theory, you know, you understand, it's >> but it was completely different. So that's why customization in nutrition is beautiful, that's what's necessary. And that's why on social media, you know, when someone says "I do this, so everyone do this because it works for me." >> You're a great example of like >> That's not true. >> That's it, it's so >> different for every person. Yes, it's important to know the theory, you know, but you really have to adapt it. And to every person, but to every situation as well, you know, >> maybe you'd do another 500k >> today, it probably wouldn't go the same way. And uh yeah, maybe the 10 bars wouldn't go down as well. Maybe there would be other, other issues, you know. >> Yeah, >> maybe you'd eat your Big Daddy, we don't know, you know, like >> maybe, maybe I should've eaten the big one. >> No, but I still like the idea of the sacred talisman that you can't touch. But >> yeah, >> but, but one, just to see. >> But yes, >> if you get sick, you'll never tell me again. Never again. >> I just want to text blacklist. >> All right, we'll put it on there. We'll do a Blacklist episode one day. >> Well yes, that's a good idea. >> Yeah. >> Uh, do you have any goals for your next season? You know, in view of, if you're in good, constant training, do you have a number in mind? Do you have an event coming up next year that you want to be ready for? Do you have, do you have a target for that? I have plenty of events I want to do, but I'm not registered for anything. I don't know yet. Uh I think learning to eat on the bike would be a good I have, I have a lot of fears in life on the bike, you know. and it takes me time to >> to desensitize. I think that could be a game changer for me, >> that's clear, >> on the bike, because it would allow me to eat more, not have to stop, and all that. And >> it's for sure, it's for sure that it makes a big difference. You know, me in total, >> I maybe stopped six times during the 500. >> Yeah, that's it. >> Like some longer bits there. >> But maybe that's also why I was able to make it to 110k. It's, you know, I was taking breaks, but for those listening on audio, I did air quotes with my fingers. >> What were your "breaks" in air quotes? >> Uh, it was stopping pedaling, unwrapping a bar on a downhill slope, and then after that on the flat, eating it, but like at, uh >> uh >> 50 watts, and then after that you get going again. But >> did you have aero bars? >> No >> No. Uh, no, because they didn't fit on my, on my bike. But also because, since I was doing a lot of gravel events during the year or because I wanted to be able to go on adventures, do things like that, I decided I wouldn't put bars on because I would have been taking them off and putting them back on constantly. >> Yeah, that's annoying. >> And I never would have gotten used to them in the end, you know. >> And when it came down to it, I wouldn't have any bars. I like...I'm not comfortable enough with having aero bars for it to be useful to me, you see . I know other people who did the 500 where the course was so rocky and had so many holes that for the whole night portion, they didn't use their bars. So that leaves you with one less position to put your hands on your handlebars. Oh yeah, I get it. But I feel like opening your bar while in aero bars isn't any easier. No, I don't know. I've never ridden with aero bars, so I don't know. But >> maybe. But look, for having opened 10 chocoerise bars, >> what's your trick? The pro tip is to open it just a little bit. >> So then after that, you undo a corner. And after that, you hold onto the big part. >> Wait a second. >> Turn it. You don't undo your corner like that. >> Give me 2 seconds. >> You're you're on a bike. Show me. You have to hold on. I can't not hold my handlebars there. Impossible. So >> what I used to do. >> Hold your handlebars there. >> H >> OK. >> A pi >> Yeah. If it if you undo it a bit >> in Yeah, no trash. >> You put it in back. Ideally, you try not to let it get to that point. >> OK. >> And then after that, the... >> while waiting like that. >> OK. So with your teeth a lot. Yeah, that's it. Gels are the same thing. >> Yeah. A same >> with your teeth. >> Yeah. Well, you know, I think I think you have to practice it to get the hang of it. Yeah, >> but there are some gels that I find open really well with your teeth, and there are others that are just disasters. >> Yeah. >> The first time I tried it in a race situation, I spilled it all over my top . >> Ah, that's classy. >> Yeah, it was it was a maple thing. So then, and it was in a gravel race. So all the dirt just stuck to it. Whoa! >> It was disgusting. I had it all over my hands and everything. >> Ah, it’s sticky. No, it’s the hell of the patriots. But that’s it, really. >> Yeah, >> I wasn't exactly proud of myself. And it was the first gel of the race, you know, that I took. You get it? So I had a disgusting bike the whole way. My hands were so sticky. Yeah, but that’s it. I have to learn and sometimes you have to. >> I think it could be a great, uh, a great goal, you know. >> You know, you go to the track one day when there's no one around. Just eat some bars, open some bars. >> You don't eat them, you just open them, throw them and >> I eat for my guy training. >> And I open them, yeah, no, I could do that, we’ll do that. >> Yeah, that's my goal, to be able to. >> Because that's what's fun about cycling , you can digest so much better than running. Cycling, for someone who runs a lot like me, is like a luxury for nutrition because you're like >> you’re so stable compared to >> Yeah. Everything is easier, but there is indeed that dexterity aspect that is a challenge for me, but >> uh >> Maybe not next year, 2027 we'll talk about it again. >> So the goal is that in 2027 we do a blacklist episode and open these things with one hand, like how to open these things with one hand, I like that, okay perfect, we'll do that. >> See you soon. >> See you soon.