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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Hello. Hi. Hi.
Speaker 2:How are you?
Speaker 3:I'm worn out. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3:Nothing to be sorry about. It just is.
Speaker 2:I feel terrible.
Speaker 3:No. I'm I mean, I feel terrible. You've had this alone for so long, but it's it's okay. It was nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing bad, really.
Speaker 2:So can I rewind and catch up a little bit before we get started? Is that okay?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I don't even know how things happen so fast that all of a sudden, okay. We're going to the cabin tomorrow, and you have to take the kids because I'm out for a week. That was so fast, and I was so overwhelmed. And I feel like even when you got to the house, first of all, you were very gracious about it. My therapist was like, That's so great.
Speaker 2:What did he say when you asked him? And I was like, No. No. You're not understanding. I just told him.
Speaker 2:I let him know that this was happening. It was not a conversation. Much less a request. I'm so sorry. You were so gracious.
Speaker 2:But then I was so overwhelmed and overstimulated, and it was all happening so fast. I was worried about my friend's presentation this afternoon. And so I almost didn't even get to say goodbye, much less actually see you. Now it's surreal that I am back at the cabin and you are at the house with the children. Like
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm sorry. I'm still just processing that because okay. So my day. I got up, I taught them Spanish. We had Spanish class first thing.
Speaker 2:And then well breakfast. And then we did Spanish class. And then they played outside while I tried to pack, and then you got there, and we did their little award ceremony for the first quarter of the school year, which to me was just emphasizing how long we have been in quarantine, that we have finished another quarter of another school year, and then throwing everything in the van and trying to get out the door. I forgot to give you all lunch. I forgot to get me lunch.
Speaker 2:And I had done such a good job of getting up early to put that food in the crock pot. First of all, I don't think I meant to take the crock pot. I think I just meant to take a bowl from the crock pot. Then right? And then I think I just meant to take a bowl from the crock pot.
Speaker 2:And then on the way here, I was going up and down the hills. Yay. Ozark Mountains. And the crock pot turned over in the car.
Speaker 3:I feel so bad because at one point, thought, I wonder if we should put this crock pot in a cardboard box just in case it spills. But then I looked in the crock pot, and it didn't look like it was very full. So I thought, no. It'll be fine.
Speaker 2:That's what I thought too. Because it was not like a slushy kind of crock pot. It was just half full. Mhmm. So I actually worked really hard researching.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to find foods that are healthy, but also that my body will let me swallow, like that I can eat. Yeah. Because a lot so here's my predicament. We're talking about so many things.
Speaker 3:I'm
Speaker 2:sorry. Here's my predicament that I do want to eat healthy and I'm actually pretty good at eating healthy in some ways, but I'm a big girl so clearly it's not entirely working. And I think part of my issue, the more that I get in touch with my body, I think part of my issue is that some of the, or a lot of the safe foods that I'm comfortable eating or that are not difficult are very plain foods and turn out to be more processed than I realized, like breads and stuff. And so even though I don't eat a lot and even though I don't really, like, binge on sweets or things too much, I'm a pretty savory kind of person. I'm a savory kind of person.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You are. My salty gal.
Speaker 2:But I just can't anyway. So I actually worked really hard researching and coming up with this recipe that I wanted to make some, like, Thai curry coconut chicken. Anyway, I was trying to make it protein, but then if I slow cooked it, it would be nice and soft and tender meat. Long story. So it spilled the crock pot turned over right as I was getting here.
Speaker 2:Like, I was so close. And then Yeah. It's weird. Right? But because you know what the roads are like out here, and so it's not like I could pull over anywhere to fix it.
Speaker 2:So by the time I actually got here, I it had flipped back over, like, the next time I went up the hill. So then all the chicken was outside of it except for one little pile. So I was like, okay. The universe has at least protected me with this, like, just enough to eat dinner. Right?
Speaker 2:So I can just eat dinner. Because this was the, like, small chunk that did not go in the car, and it didn't come out of the Crock Pot. Like, it's not like I it went in the car and then went back in the Crock Pot. Like, it was still in the Crock Pot. And so I carried it upstairs, and then I had to drive to, like, the trash can next to the lake to dig out all the chicken out of our car.
Speaker 2:And the floor mat, there was just nothing I could do. And because I'm out here, I didn't have anything to clean it with, so I had to throw the floor mat away. Like, it was
Speaker 3:just an
Speaker 2:exhausting disaster, but I got it cleaned up. And then I warmed up my little piece of chicken, and I took a bite, and it was not chicken. It was like a pile of seasoning.
Speaker 3:And Oh, no.
Speaker 2:It was very unpleasant. And so I had to scrape it and throw it away. And so it was just a disaster of a day. And my friend was trying to present. So in the community, I'm having in the community, we're having, like, a monthly topic, and different people are presenting, kind of like the interviews, but they're doing actual presentations.
Speaker 2:And then people in the community can watch and ask questions if they want to, but we record it and then put that on the podcast.
Speaker 3:Oh, cool.
Speaker 2:Right? So it's very, very neat, but I was really excited about this one because it was storytelling and about stories and how that works in therapy, and it made me think of you. It made me think of us. Like, it was such a good one, I really wanted to be there. And I was dealing with this crock pot disaster, and I was trying to get to, the cabin on time, and all this stuff just kept happening.
Speaker 2:And this I can't even tell you about this day. It was crazy. Oh, I'm not saying crazy. I'm trying so hard not to say crazy. It's such a habit.
Speaker 2:It's like learning not to cuss.
Speaker 3:Well, and you have to come up with an alternative word. Like, what is a word that expresses that through different letters? Right? So you need a word that expresses that idea.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Well, it was tricksy. Anyway, so here I am at the cabin, zooming you who is in my bedroom, but we are still not at the house at the same time.
Speaker 3:It's true.
Speaker 2:It's been
Speaker 3:Your hair looks really cute, by the way.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's just out of the shower. Thanks.
Speaker 3:It's draping nicely. Well,
Speaker 2:I'm happy to see you. I'm happy to have an actual conversation. I'm sorry I'm rambling about things. It was just wild. And you were stuck at home this whole time dealing with children.
Speaker 2:How was that? Like, welcome back home.
Speaker 3:Mostly, it was fine. We had our lunch and I read. I had what did I do? I had the kids who weren't doing Harry Potter read for a little while just on their own. Afterwards, I said they could play while I checked Alex, and he had while he worked on corrections, we watched a couple Halloween y family videos and started showers.
Speaker 3:And and then I was like, all ready to send them to bed? And I looked at the clock and it was like 06:15. And they're like, we can't go to bed yet.
Speaker 2:Yes. You can. That's when I send them, and I tell them they can read until dark.
Speaker 3:Well, I let them watch a Scooby Doo.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3:But they were they were down to bed by, like, 07:30 or something. So it's something. Oh, but here is our drama for the evening. Alex wanted a private conversation to talk about the issues that you had already told me about.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And then as he was leaving, Amber was there at the door, and she said, I had come downstairs to do something. I can't even remember what it was, something she'd forgotten. And she said, but right when I came down the stairs, I saw Barrett over by the table take some candy out of Kyrie's bucket.
Speaker 2:From the awards today?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And Kyrie is not his?
Speaker 3:That's what she says. That's what she says.
Speaker 2:What was she doing downstairs?
Speaker 3:Do the same thing. I don't know. I don't know. But so I walked over to the boys' bedroom. Alex was still with me because we had just finished up his private conversation.
Speaker 3:And oh, no. Alex had already gone out. So he was in his room already. So I came out. I told Amber to go to bed.
Speaker 3:I went to the boys' room, and Barrett was down on the floor. And I had told him specifically, repeatedly to go climb up into his bed, like, twenty minutes earlier. And I can't remember exactly how the conversation went, but I said, well, Barron, what I'm doing now is I'm going to the dining room to take all the candy out of your bucket because you were taking candy out of someone else's bucket. So I hope you enjoyed what you got. Then that was when the screaming began.
Speaker 3:And so I went back and knocked on the door and said, Barrett, just to be more specific, would you rather watch movies with us tomorrow? Because those are all part of living here, and I wanna share those things with you. So but he said he he was like, I I didn't take anything from her pocket. I was like, Barrett, well, you weren't in your bed like you were supposed to be. He said, well, Alex told me to turn off the closet light, which evidently he did.
Speaker 3:I was like, Alex, he was in bed and you were walking around. Why did you tell him to get out of bed to turn off the closet light that he left on so you could see your way to bed? So that was gross. But I told Barrett that I wouldn't eat his candy, that I just have it set aside in our room, and we can have a conversation about it tomorrow. But I don't know how to untangle these things.
Speaker 3:It would not surprise me at all if he did take candy from Curious Bucket.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. He cannot have his candy back because I talked to him about it. And, also, this is why I'm not doing candy anymore. I will take the candy, and I will give them a few pieces at a time, but they clearly cannot regulate it still because this happens every time still.
Speaker 2:And then they just get mad because different ones are stealing it. It's not like he's the only one. So no.
Speaker 3:Do I need to take it out of everybody's bucket?
Speaker 2:Take it out of everyone's buckets and put it in a small baggie with their name on it and then keep it in your room.
Speaker 3:Okay. Sad.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to parenting.
Speaker 3:Like they're supposed to be they're supposed to be regulating. Right? Like, that's what we've been working on. I saw I saw a video as, like, a little I guess, like, a TikTok thing, but I wasn't on TikTok. I was just talking to you.
Speaker 3:And it was this mom and her son doing a dance routine together, and, like, they were just having a blast. They were having such a good time, and he was really good at it. And I thought, oh my gosh. That's why people love having children. Like, there's a biological connection there in a way of, like, not just loving each other because you're family, but, like, literal similarities and inclinations and things.
Speaker 3:Sometimes I forget that that happens in in bio families.
Speaker 2:That's interesting you bring that up because I was actually just talking about that the other day. I was on a walk and I saw a mom come home with their groceries and all the kids ran out to see her. And I was like, only my chickens do that and it's because they think I have food. And it just reminded me of those moments that we don't actually experience as adoptive parents. Though we have moments in some ways, in other ways, and, like, we're trying and they're trying and we have these powerful conversations and, like, singing with you and different moments that we've worked really hard to build up that kind of feeling.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it is not an innate automatic response that we get
Speaker 3:to experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's work. It's always work. And it's been eight months since you were gone, and I miss you. And I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I was just like, it's nine weeks is up. Fall break. I'm out. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3:No. That was perfect. I'm so excited for you. Nothing to be sorry about for real.
Speaker 2:I feel like I it's so interesting because I feel like I thought we were gonna talk about other things and maybe we'll still get there. But I also just like, literally the first time we've had a chance to have a conversation in weeks and weeks besides passing off kids and tagging outside and Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's true.
Speaker 2:Quarantine being so hard. And I don't know. I think it's it's interesting because the more therapy I do, the more aware I become of things like self care, which is great, except that we're in such an impossible situation that it's really, really difficult. So seeing on the calendar, wow. This week, it's really been eight months since Nathan left.
Speaker 2:And then also those adjustment things, like even having you come in the house again, like you've had your booster shot, you've been in quarantine, you're not staying because you're having to care for your parents, but just being in, I'm like, wow. Nathan is a safe person. I love Nathan. But also that's gonna be a really careful transition when you come home because it's a big adjustment and it's really hard for me, even though it's not a bad thing. And at the same time, there's also the whole thing of, I finally get to see you.
Speaker 2:You finally get to come in the house, and I left. Like, I still didn't get to see you. So at the same time, there's that ongoing, I don't know, grief or something of Yeah. It's just hard. And then everything is hilarious along the way, like the crock pot.
Speaker 2:Like, it's just that's classic. But I'm happy to see you for a minute. I am.
Speaker 3:Yeah. For real.
Speaker 2:Okay. I need a drink of water, and we can do this. Are you ready?
Speaker 3:I think so.
Speaker 2:Or you need to do it a different day. Are you okay?
Speaker 3:I'm tired, but I can probably pull it off. Yeah. I just don't know that I'm gonna be any less tired as the week goes on.
Speaker 2:That's what I was worried about because I know what it's like to be there. And that's why I put him to bed at 06:30 or fifteen and say go read and you can read until it's dark and then at seven I call out lights out. Because that way by eight they're actually asleep or in bed. Whereas if I put them to bed at eight or 08:30 they get fussier and fussier and fussier and they're still not in bed, and then it's another hour after that before they're asleep. And then it's used up my whole window as, like, I need adult quiet time before I start another day.
Speaker 2:It uses up the whole evening. So I have to have them down so that I can rest so that we all function the next day. Yeah. But, also, I don't watch Scooby Doo. So who's got littles now?
Speaker 2:Okay. Let's do your thing.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:So we're having a date. Is this our just a regular Zoom date, or is this a big fancy date here on Zoom land?
Speaker 3:With us, every regular date is a big fancy date.
Speaker 2:We've had a regular date.
Speaker 3:Every day, Betty.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. So we're having a date just for fun. It's not actual philosophy or is it real philosophy?
Speaker 3:I'm not sure how to answer that question.
Speaker 2:Does the lady think it's real philosophy?
Speaker 3:I don't think she thinks it's philosophy. I think she thinks it's physics and biology. Biology.
Speaker 2:Oh, fascinating. Okay. So let me tell the story, and then you tell your story because it's really your story. But you showed up at the house last week for sitting outside on the porch to read to the children from 15 feet apart, and you told me that while you were driving over, you had found some wild new podcast. See how I said wild instead of crazy?
Speaker 3:You Oh, that's a good one. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Thanks. So you found a new podcast, and you were trying to tell me all about this, like, personality mapping or something. Tell me.
Speaker 3:So yeah. I was listening to a podcast, and they started talking about something called human design. I thought, I like design and I'm a human. Let's see what it is. And it it turns out to be a combination of horoscopes and chakras and I Ching and couple other things I can't remember.
Speaker 3:And, like, just from that description, I would have thought, oh, boy. Like, I I think I'm interested in chakras. I think they're interesting. We've we've done some exploring of chakras, you and me. I don't know anything about the I Ching, but I've I have sort of an innate skepticism about the horoscope just because what you see is is usually so ridiculous.
Speaker 3:But I've always found I've always found it interesting when some of these sort of traditional ways of understanding the world give new insight into who you are or whatever. And so I thought, well, you know, this could be cool. Let me look into this and see what it's like just for fun. So I come to this with a high degree of skepticism, but also the delight that comes from reading your horoscope and finding that it actually describes you. Right?
Speaker 2:So this is the part that got my attention and why I said we have to talk about this on the podcast, because you started telling you looked up mine and you started telling me, and I was laughing so hard, and there were even like these allusions to plurality and like these
Speaker 1:Oh, yes.
Speaker 2:Different things that I was just laughing too hard. So I made you pause. I was like, hold the energy. We need to talk about it on the podcast. You have to tell so you've sent me a map now, which I don't know how to read, but it It's so complicated.
Speaker 2:Right? Okay. So let me just describe it, and then you can talk about it and talk about this podcast. Is it a certain podcast that we're referencing or we're not actually advertising it?
Speaker 3:There's lots of there's lots of different things about it. I mean, we you can get your your own map online. There's free human design map generators, but there's not one specific podcast that it's
Speaker 2:Where did this come from? Is it like a fad, or is it like an actual thing?
Speaker 3:I think it's sort of a I mean, I would kind of classify it under new age spirituality spirituality kind of stuff, but it's it's a conglomeration of lots of different traditional understandings of spirituality and the body and whatnot.
Speaker 2:Does your mother know that you're listening to these kinds of podcasts?
Speaker 3:No. But many years ago, when I first started looking into chakras,
Speaker 1:I decided to talk
Speaker 3:to my mother about it, expecting her to just be once again horrified by all the shocking things that her son does. But she's like, oh, yeah. That makes sense. I was like, really? She's like, well, you know, sometimes I can see people's aura, so that makes sense that those chakras would be in place too.
Speaker 2:No. She didn't.
Speaker 1:I was
Speaker 3:like, what? Yeah. Yeah. She says sometimes she can see a light around people and can see different colors in it. And I was like, wow.
Speaker 3:Okay. Cool.
Speaker 2:Wow. That was before cataracts too. Okay. So you've sent me this map, and I'm just gonna describe it because it's a podcast. Okay?
Speaker 2:So Okay. First of all, I don't know what any of this means or how real it is. So I'm not interpreting anything. We're just having a date. But what I see is there's, like, a shadow figure of an outline of a person in the background, like, so that you can see where everything corresponds.
Speaker 2:And then Yes. There are, like, triangles and squares, kind of very chakra ish. Mhmm. But Yes. They have, like, all these little paths between them.
Speaker 2:So it looks like a highway exchange or something. What is that called? Like the clover leaf? It really does.
Speaker 3:Like a clover leaf system. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then it has all kinds of numbers and symbols. So that's what you sent me. And then you were telling me this hilarious story about how messed up I am and that it was on this map.
Speaker 3:I did not say a single thing about you being messed up. Not one single thing. Alright. So there's there's many different parts to this chart, and most of these parts, I do not understand.
Speaker 2:Is how I feel about myself.
Speaker 3:Perfect. So the the shapes on the chart are indeed related to the chakras. But in this system, there's, like, two more chakras than there are in the traditional chakra map.
Speaker 2:I can't see you.
Speaker 3:But it's because I have to keep looking over at my I'm on my phone, so I have to look at my different files. Maybe I could share my screen with you. Would that
Speaker 2:be awful? Clever. It's working.
Speaker 3:Oh, is it?
Speaker 1:Oh, yes.
Speaker 2:Mall. You're adorable.
Speaker 3:So I organized my apps by rooms in an imaginary house.
Speaker 2:Wait. Time out. Don't change the screen. I wanna read these. These are your phone folders, and it says entry hall, morning paper, the study, the rumpus room, the dark room, the solarium, the parlor, the media room, the mall, the garage, the shed outback, the office, the ward building.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. I can't get enough of you. That's hilarious. You're adorable.
Speaker 3:Classic me right there. Alright. So so the shapes are we going back to the Yes. Thing? Alright.
Speaker 3:So these shapes correlate with the different chakras. The top one is the head chakra that has to do with, like, inspiration where it comes from. And they also talk about it being a a pressure point of, like, the feeling the pressure to understand, I guess. I I'm not entirely sure about that. But then there's the third eye that has to do with, like, thinking and understanding things, like, intellectually, I guess.
Speaker 3:The throat that has to do with communication and also, like, charisma kind of comes from the throat. Then the one below that in a regular chakra, that would be the heart next. But here, they call it the g center Oh. Which is like your the g spot is right there. That's why we couldn't find it.
Speaker 3:You can edit that out.
Speaker 2:No. No. We're gonna leave it there because I want everybody to find it.
Speaker 3:So in this system, this center is like the center of your identity, yourself.
Speaker 2:Could this lady really not find a different name for that besides the g center? I mean, seriously.
Speaker 3:I wish I had an answer to that. So then down and a little bit over from that center is the the heart is the little triangle space there. And so that has to do with love and emotion and and also evidently will and contentment. Then you've got sort of three that come across in a horizontal row. On the left side is the spleen that has to do with intuition and physical awareness being present.
Speaker 3:Then in the center is the sacral, which is sort of like the furnace. Like, it's the place that gets stuff done. And then the solar plexus over on the right has to do with, like, emotions and processing, you know, processing our emotions. And then at the bottom is the root, and this is another pressure point. It's like the pressure to get things done.
Speaker 3:It's always like pushing up there. So that was kind of bland if you don't have a chart in front of you. But here's what's interesting in comparing our two charts. We are almost opposites. So if you look at my chart, most of the shapes on my chart are white, and then I have two colored shapes.
Speaker 3:The white shapes are called open centers, and that means that you don't have one particular way of doing things there. So for example, the white crown chakra, crown center means there's not just one way that I receive inspiration. There's a lot I can find inspiration in lots of different ways. Right? I the ones that are colored in are called fixed.
Speaker 3:So they are sort of more strong in their identity or the way that they process things. So the the heart chakra, the little triangle that sits over to the side of the main column, mine is colored in. And in part, that ties into the idea of, like, having a strong sense of your own value and self worth, trusting in your emotional self.
Speaker 2:So you're saying that one on mine is not filled in?
Speaker 3:Well, let's go look at yours.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. Is the opposite.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So most of yours are filled in except for we both have are open in our, like, intuition and intellectual areas. But where I am filled in in my my heart center and my I can't remember what it is on that side, but it has to do with emotional processing as well. Those are filled in on mine, but they are open on yours. And everything else on yours is filled in while mine is all open.
Speaker 2:Wow. So what is that supposed to mean?
Speaker 3:So to me that says that that you are very open in the ways that you receive inspiration and direction. You are vulnerable in in your sort of emotional stability, like in understanding your feelings. But in the other ways, and the other aspects of who you are that you're very directed and action oriented and sort of very specific in how you approach things. If we go over to the right side of the side of the chart where it has chart properties, we get into more details that will probably be more interesting on a podcast where people are just listening instead of talking about a chart they can't see. So there's different types of personality.
Speaker 3:There's basically five types. There's the a reflector who basically is open everywhere. Like, they're very susceptible to other people's energies all the time. There's a reflector. I'm a projector, which is sort of slightly less than that.
Speaker 3:So very open but with a little bit more focus. There are also manifestors and generators, but you are a manifesting generator. So a combination of two other types. Wait. What?
Speaker 3:Here under type it's yeah. So it means you can come up with ideas and then make them happen. Right? You are manifesting and generating.
Speaker 2:Fascinating.
Speaker 3:But it says, your type is manifesting generator, the multi hyphenate, multi passionate people who are here to do and accomplish many diverse things.
Speaker 2:It says I am a people.
Speaker 3:Even your horoscope says you are a people. You are a multi hyphenate, multi passionate people who are here to do and accomplish many diverse things.
Speaker 2:I feel like if I ever go back to Twitter, that could be my new bio.
Speaker 3:Oh, I love that. My type my type is the projector. It says the seer, people who can see better, more efficient, or upgraded approach to a specific thing and are here to share that with others. So both of those kind of described us pretty well. Right?
Speaker 3:Like, you are someone who does lots of things because you have lots of passions and interests going on inside of you. I just sort of look around at things and think about things, and I'm happy to share what I have. Mine doesn't say a single thing about doing anything.
Speaker 2:That's so true. That makes sense, and I think that it's part of what makes our relationship work though, because Mhmm. You just let us be, and it doesn't phase you at all.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like Strategy Wait. Oh. So so, like, think of the example of this week of, hey. By the way, I'm going to the cabin tomorrow, so you need to be here to care for the kids with for a week. Like, warning.
Speaker 2:This is just what's happening, and you're like, okay. But in the past, that's also happened. Hey. We're going to Israel tomorrow. Can I have your passport, please?
Speaker 2:Yep. Okay.
Speaker 3:Well, and and that actually ties into the next thing on this character property thing where it says strategy. And for my type of person, my way of interacting with the world and being my best self is to be invited. It suggests that I cannot actively go out and force myself onto the world. Right? I can't impress myself.
Speaker 3:I have to wait until the invitation comes, and then I can respond and give what I have. Let's see what your strategy is. Responding. That's interesting. Interesting.
Speaker 3:So you see a need and you respond to it, which those two seem really related to me. They're slightly different. Right. But yours is like the active version of mine.
Speaker 2:Fascinating. That makes me happy though, because responding is exactly what I've been learning about for the last year, that it's actually really important to me. I feel like in the past I've had several relationships with different, I don't mean dating relationships, but therapists or friends or different kinds of people who were good people and who said they had my best interest at heart, but they didn't actually respond to me and were not attentive in that way. And I don't mean, like, paying attention. Like, I'm not an attention needy kind of person.
Speaker 2:But Yeah. But in a like, I'm not high maintenance in that way. I can just do my own thing. But if you say you're on my team or there to support or whatever, however you would say that, if you're one of my people, then when I do share something, someone responding to that is actually really important to me, and me learning how to respond to others is really important to me. And so that's interesting that that came up, which is one of the other reasons I wanted to talk about on the podcast, because I feel like it's one of my biggest takeaways from 2021, is that responsiveness is actually a really big deal to me.
Speaker 3:When I think of you in friend relationships, I feel like you are somebody who is much more likely to express that friendship by meeting their needs than by sitting around and chatting.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Right? It's not about socializing so much as it is mutual service.
Speaker 2:Right. And and that actually can be a really beautiful thing, but it can also be a challenging thing because when it's not mutual, then it becomes fawning, which is a trauma response. And it gets me giving away pieces of myself instead of caring for someone and also caring for me. So the difference sometimes is a really fine line because when you're really committed to caring for someone else, you will do a lot for them. But when it's mutual, and when it's turn taking, and it's a relationship, then you also get tended to at different times, right?
Speaker 2:Like this week, I am here at the cabin. Later this year, you're gonna go to the cabin. Like, we're able to take turns with that to get a break from parenting, which for us is really, really intense work. It's not just, hey. These are our kids, and we hang out all the time.
Speaker 2:But when it gets out of balance, or it's not mutual, then it is a trauma response, and I'm giving pieces of myself away instead instead of sharing myself with someone who also shares themself with me. Other time I notice
Speaker 3:it
Speaker 2:is that there are some people where conversation and a lots of communication is actually really important to them, which is not a bad thing, but it overwhelms me very quickly.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's it's just two very different ways of of interacting. It's not that one is better or worse than the other, but you just have to be aware of what the other person's sort of energetic style is and and know how to how to process that. Right? Or how to prepare for it or respond to it or react to it or all those things.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's and marriage and with children and all of those things.
Speaker 2:So like a love language from the nineties?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that makes sense because if I have a child who talks a lot but doesn't do what I ask, ever, then it's not meeting my need and does not connect us in a way that's meaningful to me. So it's extra work to care for them the way that they need because I'm not getting something back.
Speaker 3:Yes. And so you prepare yourselves in various ways. You just sort of know that it's going to be a taxing exchange and recognize that you will need recovery time afterwards or something to bounce back from from that time together.
Speaker 2:Well, that's why I'm at the cabin.
Speaker 3:Shall we go on?
Speaker 2:Yes. Sorry. Go ahead. I mean, I would like to invite you to continue.
Speaker 3:Oh, I feel so spoken to. So the next has to do with authority, which is oh, yeah. Authority. So the way you make decisions. So
Speaker 1:for
Speaker 3:yours, it says you make decisions based on your gut, and I make decisions based on how I feel. Oh. Which again, they feel like two sides of the same coin, but not quite.
Speaker 2:Fascinating. My
Speaker 3:mom was more reactive. Right? How you feel almost comes after sometimes, but gut is more like instinct. It feels more active and and defensive somehow.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 3:So definition, I'm not entirely sure about definition. I think it has to do with sort of the flow between these different shapes on the chart. It says I am I have single definition. There is easy flow in my chart. But for you, you have split definition.
Speaker 3:There are two distinct voices two distinct different voices inside your system. What? I would say they got the number a little low.
Speaker 2:How does it even know that?
Speaker 3:So if you look over at your chart, in the same way that the colored shapes are, like, fixed in a certain way and the white shapes are open, they're colored and open lines that go partway or connect things. And so evidently, in the sort of circulatory network here, I get that it functions in different ways that shift from time to time.
Speaker 2:What does that mean?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm clearly no expert. What do you think it means?
Speaker 2:You are not my therapist.
Speaker 3:Be the therapist today. You recognize the quote.
Speaker 2:That's wild that it says that you're one single united voice and that I have more than one voice. How does it know this is based on like my birthday or something?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So the first lady I heard talking about this was talking about how it has to do with neutrinos interacting with your atoms as you were born.
Speaker 2:That was just rape.
Speaker 3:Oh, dear.
Speaker 2:Don't know what neutrinos are involved in that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So here's a here's an interesting one as we move on. Like, some of these are really interesting things. So here we get to what's called the profile. And by profile, you have two two different numbers.
Speaker 3:The first number is more subconscious and is kind of what you explore through the first half of your life. The second number is more conscious and is more of what you explore in the second second half half of of your your life. Life.
Speaker 2:Okay. Okay.
Speaker 3:So my numbers are one and three. One is known as the scholar, I believe, and three is known as the martyr. So the scholar is learning things intellectually, and the martyr, even though that sounds terrible, the martyr is about experiencing things through trial and error, experiencing them physically, and learning from your mistakes.
Speaker 2:That's very you.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. The name of my profile is the establisher of knowledge and truth, which sounds very profound. Yours is yours is amazing. Oh, no.
Speaker 3:Alright. So yours is 35, referred to as the great life experimenter. The three is the same one that I had for the first part of my life. Your your first part was the martyr, and the five is called the heretic.
Speaker 1:What? So,
Speaker 3:again, the names are not exactly what they are. The the martyr is about learning things physically through, like, trial and error and learning from your own mistakes. The martyr, they talk about the martyr having to retreat to their caves to heal themselves, and then other people come to them to look for healing and understanding.
Speaker 2:Woah. Say that one more time.
Speaker 3:So the martyr is someone who retreats to the cave to heal themselves, and then other people come to look to them for understanding. Woah. Right? And they talked about how people who have this martyr type, typically, these people they're helping are not long term. It's sort of this person gets what they need, this person gets what they need, and then they go on their way, which makes me think of you as a therapist who specialized in assessments and diagnosing people.
Speaker 3:And another piece of it is the people who have this five type have what they call a projection field,
Speaker 2:which is Well, wait. Just a second.
Speaker 3:Cool. That sounds
Speaker 2:Wait. Sorry. Sorry. I'm interrupting. Yep.
Speaker 2:So I got good at assessments and diagnosis because that way I didn't have to work with people long term with attachment ness when I was during this season, that I was struggling with attachment ness especially. But I also see, looking back, obviously again because of my own trauma growing up, but lots of people who were in my life for a very short time and very few people who actually stayed.
Speaker 3:Yes. Yep. That's that's the five.
Speaker 2:Wow. Okay. So this heretic thing, is that because I wanna stay in quarantine instead of going back to church?
Speaker 3:I I think it's more like what you talk about when you talk about witches as being the old women who are kicked out of the society, but they're not actually as wicked as people think and they're actually there to help them. Oh, yes. That's what I think the heresy is.
Speaker 2:So Mary and I in Africa learned about the witches camps being not what we think of like Halloween witches, but they were actually widows who were the surviving spouses in their family, in their village. But when their spouse died, the widows are kicked out so that the village doesn't have to care for them. And if they make it to the witch's camp or the widow's camp, really is what the word should be and translate it correctly
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Then they can live there and survive. But if they are caught before they make it to the witch's camp, then they're killed. And so the women in the witch's camp then it's like what you were saying about the other thing too. What was the other one called? The martyr?
Speaker 2:Because Yes. It overlaps. Because once they make it to the witch's camp, then they actually make dresses and food and medicine and things that people from the village need and come to get from them, but don't stay or care for the women. The women have to care for themselves and each other. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That is I think exactly what it is.
Speaker 2:Wow. That's wild.
Speaker 3:The other interesting thing about this type five person, they say it comes it has what they call a projection field. And when they first started talking about that, I thought, oh, you can, like, project your thoughts out onto the world. No. It's actually the reverse of that. This projection field means other people are always projecting their stuff onto you.
Speaker 3:Oh. So yeah. Does that sound familiar?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Where you will have lots of trouble with people, and they will be accusing you of things, but actually, they're accusing you of their own stuff.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Or they are upset with you because of their own stuff.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:So this would suggest that is another part of your sort of energetic self, that you allow people to reveal these sort of negative parts of their self in order to help them on their own journey to get past those things.
Speaker 2:Well, that is heavy, and I don't know what to say about that one. It wears me out.
Speaker 3:Well, it pairs nicely with this next thing on the chart. The incarnation cross has to
Speaker 1:do
Speaker 3:with, like, your work to do in this in this lifetime. And yours is the right angle cross of the sleeping phoenix, which just sounds beautiful, doesn't it? The right angle cross of the sleeping phoenix.
Speaker 2:Oh, that could be my new Twitter handle. I'm just kidding. I'm not going back to Twitter. It just really is very fancy.
Speaker 3:It is. The sleeping phoenix being a bird that is that burns up and rises from its own ashes to heal other people.
Speaker 2:Basically, the story of my life. It's like the cliff notes of my book.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I get a kick out of this. Mine is the right angle cross of the unexpected.
Speaker 2:That is the other reason our relationship works.
Speaker 3:Pretty funny.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3:So now anything else here? Signs that you are living your life's design as a feeling of satisfaction. Signs that you are not living your life's design come in the form of frustration. Digestion. I thought this was interesting because I thought it meant literal digestion, and maybe it does in some form.
Speaker 3:But I heard them talking about digestion on one of the different podcasts, and they were talking about it's it's not just eating, it's about how you take things in from the world. And so yours says daytime eating is the direct light. And I'm not entirely sure what that is, but I start thinking, like, on a metaphorical level, what does that mean that you like, it sounds very forthright. It sounds very transparent, taking things indirectly, looking for good and light all the time. I'm not sure what it means, but it's fascinating.
Speaker 3:But then it says your strongest sense is outer vision. So with my my sort of type, there's a lot of inward looking, but your strongest sense is looking outward, like looking to others, looking at the world around you.
Speaker 2:Avoiding looking at myself.
Speaker 3:Perhaps. Perhaps. On my digestion, it says my digestion is buzzing nervous touch.
Speaker 2:That is a true story right there for you, buddy.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So when I thought I was eating, I was like, that that doesn't make any sense. My eating doesn't buzz. But then I thought, oh, yes. I'm always feeling overstimulated and and overwhelmed.
Speaker 3:And yeah. So there is especially when I spend a day with six children, there's a lot of buzzing going on when I'm taking things in from the world.
Speaker 2:Wow. The one
Speaker 3:on mine that the one on mine I don't really resonate with is this how do I feel when I'm not living myself, and it says bitterness. I don't I don't really recognize that as an aspect of I I don't feel like a very bitter person even when I struggle with not living up to what I expect of myself or feel like the world doesn't give me what I would like or I I don't know. I don't see bitterness really as part of myself. Don't know if you have a better idea of what that means.
Speaker 2:You are the least bitter person I know. Maybe you just have to redefine what success is.
Speaker 3:It says the sign that I'm living my design is success. And that's such an interesting thing because I always think money, like lots of recognition, which I don't really have. But in a lot of ways, I have exactly the life I've always wanted. Like I've got you, and I've got amazing children, and I'm able to write, and I have all kinds of wonderful things in my life. So it's in a way, I'm really successful.
Speaker 2:So in the morning, when you wake up because your alarm goes off because you're back home and there's six children to go feed, you remember that, buddy.
Speaker 3:I'm drowning in success.
Speaker 2:You have to barely keep my head
Speaker 3:above all the success around here.
Speaker 2:I love you. How are you doing after caring for your parents even before you go deal with kids tomorrow?
Speaker 3:I'm I'm doing okay. I I worry about them. It's a new situation. I'm not entirely sure how to be of the most help or how to prepare them or what to prepare for. Like, it's a very open ended kind of mysterious situation.
Speaker 3:But
Speaker 2:I worry because when you're home, I don't think they're actually gonna ask you for help.
Speaker 3:I'd say there's a very good chance you're correct. We might not even know if if mom falls until after I've gotten back there.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. It's such a hard season.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Life comes with hard seasons.
Speaker 2:I mean, I had to care for my mom for just a little while, but then I mean, squashed by a Jeep is kinda the way to go.
Speaker 1:I'll suggest it to mom, but I don't think she'll
Speaker 3:be over to the idea.
Speaker 2:That's terrible. I'm sorry. It's good to see you though.
Speaker 3:That's really good to see you.
Speaker 2:I'm really glad you were designed as a human.
Speaker 1:It was either this or a hedgehog. Yeah. It's kind of a toss-up.
Speaker 2:That's so funny that you were just playing with it to see from hearing on the podcast and then heard all that stuff about different voices. And
Speaker 3:Ain't that funny? I read it, I was like, no way.
Speaker 2:That's wild. That's wild. Well, I will let you go, but thank you for chatting with me. It's good to see you for half a minute. Good luck this week.
Speaker 2:I'm so sorry. I'm really feeling badly about it, but also not. Those are my two voices.
Speaker 3:It's great. I'm happy to be here. It's hard, but just being hard doesn't mean it's bad.
Speaker 2:I feel like there's a life lesson in that somewhere. Good night.
Speaker 3:Good night, sweetie. Bye.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing. One of the ways we practice this is in community together. The link for the community is in the show notes.
Speaker 2:We look forward to seeing you there while we practice caring for ourselves, caring for our family, and participating with those who also care for community. And remember, I'm just a human, not a therapist for the community, and not there for dating, and not there to be shiny happy. Less shiny, actually. I'm there to heal too. That's what peer support is all about.
Speaker 2:Being human together. So yeah, sometimes we'll see you there.