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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Welcome to the grazing
grass podcast episode 138.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Understand first, you must understand
the production systems and then
you have to go into marketing.
Cal: You're listening to the
grazing grass, podcast, sharing
information and stories of
grass-based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
On today's show, we have Angus
McIntosh from South Africa on
to share about his journey.
How he is branding himself,
branding his products, Farmer Angus.
And how he's getting them to the
consumer and what he's doing on his
farm, how he started at ground zero.
And for the past 16 years
been working on his operation.
Really good episode.
I think you enjoy it.
For 10 seconds about the farm.
Well, the drought continues.
We're still hopeful for rain.
, our heart goes out to those
people in Tennessee, where the
hurricane just dump massive.
Reigns on them.
If you happen to watch Justin Rhodes on
YouTube, he's got some videos showing
in the middle of the storm and stuff.
It's really interesting.
I encourage you to go watch it.
It's amazing how much damage it did.
Also for the farm.
Normally.
I see a post about the
Ozark fall farm Fest.
Usually it's because of Travis Ellis from
episode 26, he always goes there and he
posts and I see it and I'm like, oh, I
wish we would have planned for it and
went well, last week we saw the post
and we didn't have anything planned.
So we went up there for the weekend.
, Airbnb a house.
Nice old house that creaks when you walk,
but it was a really enjoyful weekend.
We were able to go out to the Ozark
fall farm Fest and really enjoyed it.
I enjoyed seeing the equipment,
the booths and the animals.
I think the animals, there
are a great addition.
That's one reason I like
going to the state fairs.
But this got me the
benefit of the farm show.
With the animals.
So.
I told my wife next year, when
we talk about Tulsa state fair.
Remind me, I'd rather go to
the Ozark fall farmfeast.
And if you're in that area near
Springfield, Missouri, it's well worth it.
Of course now you've got
to wait until the next one.
, for 10 seconds about the podcast.
If you listened last week, you know,
we had a little bit of audio issue.
I think we've resolved those
and we've uploaded new versions.
Should be better.
Shouldn't have any problem today.
However, if you do hear
issue, just let me know.
For the grazing grass
insiders are monthly.
, zoom will be coming up
October 22nd at 7:00 PM.
We're going to talk about the types of
grazing and what type you should use.
So if your insider.
And be watching for that.
If you're not a insider, you
can find out more information at
our website, grazing grass.com.
Enough of that.
Let's talk to Angus.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Angus, we want to
welcome you to the Grazing Grass Podcast.
We're excited you're here today.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Listen I'm more excited than you are.
I can tell you.
It's the, what I've always loved about,
so I've been practicing regenerative
agriculture for 16 years and, and all
of my leadership, well, not all of
it, but most of it comes out of the U.
S.
So it's wonderful to be, to be speaking
with you and, and, you know, this
network that you've tapped into, you
know, the sort of paradox of American
agriculture is that American agriculture
gave birth to this monstrosity that
is cage animal agriculture that
is just destructive in every way.
And yet, America is also the place.
where the counter movement, the
regenerative movement, the grass
movement is the strongest in the world.
It's, it's, it's a fascinating
situation actually.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: right.
And that's so true.
Yes.
So to get started, Angus, tell us a little
bit about yourself and your operation.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Yeah, Cal, so I manage a wine farm
outside Stellenbosch, which is
near Cape Town in South Africa.
It's called Speer.
I've been doing this for 16 years.
Before that, well, I actually
grew up very rurally on a farm in
the Eastern part of the country.
It was so rural that Zulu was
the first language that I spoke.
And then my father went into
Parliament in South Africa.
The Parliament was in Cape Town
and so we lived half a year on a
farm and half a year in Cape Town.
Anyway, I then studied
management accounting.
I went to London.
I worked as a stockbroker
for Goldman Sachs.
And it was I was sort of four and a bit
years into my stockbroking career and
I didn't really want to go to Tokyo.
Which is where they wanted to promote me.
So my wife and I made the decision because
we had at that stage, two young kids to
quit the whole Goldman Sachs lifestyle.
We managed to get an opportunity to
build a house on this farm, which
turned out to be a clay house.
So clay and adobe.
And I then in June of 2008, read Michael
Poland's book, The Omnivore's Dilemma,
where the book, I'm not sure how
familiar you are with the book, but it's
about, there's three parts to the book.
And it's basically traces a meal
from source to, to, to finish.
And the middle part is about a grass based
farmer who happens to be Joel Salatin.
And it was July of 2008.
I read the book.
I was so inspired by it.
I put it down.
I said to my wife, I want to be like Joel.
So I've been trying to be like
Joel for the last 16 years.
We, so we, there are seven
product lines that we produce.
The latest one.
being wine that we
released two months ago.
So we're two, just over two
months into a wine brand.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: So when you
came back to South Africa on that
farm and built your house, what was
happening on the farm at that time?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
That is a wonderful question, Carl.
I call it ground zero.
So the history of that farm is that it
had been, yeah, so, so we, we, we are
quite a brittle environment where we are.
We, our annual rainfall is 650
to 700 millimeters of rain.
That's the long, long term average.
700 mils, I think is 28 inches.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: I
was just looking it up because
I'm, I'm not sure right off.
Yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So, however, we've, we, we had nine
years of drought leading up to 2023.
Our rains come in quite a short
period, which is the sort of,
our winter, which is your summer.
So we get them usually a bit in
May, June, July, August, a little
bit maybe in September, and then
it's, it gets quite hot and dry.
So our summers are, are, We can get up,
comfortably get up to 40 degrees Celsius,
which I think is close to 100 Fahrenheit.
Not very, not humid at all, very dry.
We so, so I'm digressing a
little bit, but I just want to
sort of talk about the climate.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
I think it's good to
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
what's amazing about, about our
situation is that the Apartheid
government built an irrigation
system for approximately 600 farms.
where they put huge pipes underwater
through a very, very big area.
And so our irrigation water, we
are not having to turn on any pump.
There's no electricity costs involved.
All we do is we open this huge
valve or tap and we've got five
and a half bars of pressure.
It's unbelievable.
And it's super cheap, the, both the
water and the, and the, and the cost.
So, so we have this amazing thing,
Cal, where we get irrigation
in summer and rain in winter.
The result of that is my cattle, I
never have to feed a, feed a bale.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
I never have to buy any food from outside.
They survive entirely what's on the
pastures and then in winter, what's,
what's being grown off the pasture.
So we, we're very, very,
very lucky like that.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
It sounds like a great advantage
to have that in, in place.
Now you mentioned about
your temperatures in summer.
How cold does it get
during the winter for you?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
When I tell you what it, how cold it
gets for us, you guys, you guys are
going to sort of laugh and say cold.
You don't know what you're talking about.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yes,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So in winter, we might get one or
two frosts a year so that it could
go down to sort of zero degrees
Celsius at night on a really cold
morning for us is below five Celsius.
And then it usually in winter
sort of will heat up to.
15, 20 degrees or so.
So, so it's, it's, it's pretty mild.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: it is.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
It's a, it's a pretty mild winter.
It's probably as mild
as Florida in winter.
Uh, maybe even not quite
as, a bit colder than that.
So, so yeah, that's the situation
we, we, we are, um, the farm,
I'm afraid I'm talking hectares.
I, I think, I think acres is 2.
2 or something, that conversion.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Almost 2.
5.
So,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
We were in five.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: one hectare to 2.
5 acres.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
hectares, the whole
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, okay.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
However, so that's what
over 2000 acres, I think.
And, and, and part of that 30, 35
hectares ish is where we, we have a
hotel and restaurants and shops and an
organic vegetable garden, et cetera.
And then the rest of the farm
is 21 hectares of vignettes.
We are in a wine growing area.
116 hectares of irrigated pasture.
We have about 150 or so hectares of
So when it rains in winter, the cattle
can graze there about twice a year.
And then we have a rewilding area or
what we call a Feynbos restoration area.
So the Feynbos is the Afrikaans name
for the original biome or the plants
that were in the area, or that we think,
you know, because they weren't, the
first white people who came here was
in 1652 and they didn't have cameras.
So we don't actually know
what this area looked like.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
We're just speculating.
So, but this is an area where
the animals don't graze and we're
trying to, you know, resurrect
what we think is the original bio.
Yeah.
And, and, and, and I mean, we,
I've worked very hard over the
16 years on building a brand.
Everything I sell goes under
the farmer Angus brand.
Which I was, you and I were joking
about earlier is confusing because of
Angus the Angus cattle breed, but, but
interestingly, I, if you allow me to
digress on the, on the brand development,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
it's Joel Salatin who said that
50 percent of your time needs
to be spent on marketing and 50
percent of your time on production.
And, and, and I've over time realized
that the, the truth of that statement
and, and within the production, you
know, I've emphasized on production
is to try and drive down production
costs and have, protocols and
systems in place all the time.
And then of course, staff is a huge thing.
You know, Cal, I've got, I've got
two staff who finished high school.
You know, it's, it's, it's I mean,
literacy is a real problem in Southern
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So, so that is a very big drive
for us is the social work and
trying to upskill our staff.
And we, we, we at the stage now,
we've mostly got really good people.
But yeah, I could bore you for hours
about the, the, the problems that,
that we've run into on the farm.
Now, obviously for us, labor is
much cheaper than for you guys.
It's a very different economy, but we, we
sell, we've got one product that really
goes to a big national retailer, but
the rest all goes direct to consumer.
And because we have the brand, we are
what we call price makers, whereas
commodity producers are price takers.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
In South Africa cowl, the farm gate prices
for wiener, wiener, wiener oxen or heifers
in the last seven years has gone up by 1.
3%.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So, in South Africa, South
Africa from 2010 to 2024.
In 14 years, we have lost
56% of our cattle farmers.
They've gone bust and
54% of our corn farmers.
So I I, when I was in, in Virginia,
in, in August, Jim Gar, not Jim Garris,
um, oh my gosh, I Company, kit Farrow.
Kit
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: oh,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
was, and Kit Farrow said that between,
in the US between 2017 and twenty
twenty two, a hundred and forty
2000 farmers in America went bus.
This is just the most shocking statistic.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh.
Yes, the numbers are crazy when
you start looking into that.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Cal, I don't know, I don't know
how it ends, but at some stage I
mean, let's talk later on about it.
I've got a few ideas as to how I think
this thing can, can, can change, or this
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
Well,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
But, but, but sorry, just back to us.
So, so, June of, July 2008, I
finished reading Onward's Dilemma.
I was lucky that I had a
Zimbabwean mentor for three years.
He had been practicing a lot of
this rotational grazing thing.
things on his farms in Zimbabwe.
So he had four farms, employed 350
people, and Mugabe, in those days,
he, Mugabe came onto his farm and
said, you got 24 hours to leave.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: oh,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
It's unbelievable what
happens in Zimbabwe.
Absolutely incredible.
And, you know, prior to that, Zimbabwe
was the bread basket of Africa.
They were the best farmers
in the entire continent.
They're incredible.
So so I was lucky for three years.
He was my mentor and a lot of
the stuff he hadn't done either.
You know, he hadn't done
boiler chickens before.
We hadn't done layers in egg mobiles.
But sort of the principles, I guess, of
regenerative agriculture, he understood.
well.
And, and, and, and, during the time
that he was there, the first year or
two, I guess, we would sell our product
as pasture reared, pasture reared.
And,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yes,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
then, Carl, someone says,
Oh, I do pasture reared.
And another guy in another part of
the country goes, I do pasture reared.
So I said to my wife, this is crazy, man.
These guys aren't doing pasture reared.
They don't understand
the first thing about it.
They can barely spell it.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: right.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
she said, well, you've got to brand
it around you and I resisted because I
said to her, I'm not doing this for me.
I'm doing it for the regenerative
agriculture movement.
And she kept going on and she was right
because in, in, in branding something
around a person, it immediately
makes the story more interesting.
And, and I fundamentally, I
think humans like a story.
That's why you, that's
why you like podcasts.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: oh, yeah.
Yeah, it's the story the journey
learning about people Yes, I agree
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So I've paid epic amount of school fees.
I just hope I've got, that's
why I open source everything.
You'll see on my website, all my
Eggmobile plans are available to download.
Everything we've got is open sourced
because we don't want other people
to pay the school fees that we have.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
With your farm and your marketing,
I think that's an interesting angle
because to be honest, and I've mentioned
this on the podcast before, I think
that marketing is so, so important, but
so many farmers are resistant to it.
And it sounds like you were
resistant to it at first as well.
How
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Well, yeah, so, so my job at
Goldman Sachs was equity sales.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
It is basically a stock broker.
So I mean, selling is
something I've enjoyed doing.
I love talking and I'm quite passionate.
And so the marketing part was easy.
The hard part of the marketing thing.
is to try and get the appropriate
message across and to, and
to work on your packaging.
That's taken us a hell of a long time, but
we are, we are very, very close to having
all our packaging finally look the same,
to have the same look and feel, same font.
I mean, because we've got
loads of different products.
You know, whether it's bone broth
or a tea that we make, or, you know,
we, we freeze dry egg whites and,
and, and, and egg white powder.
I mean, and then there's salami and beef
and eggs and wine to try and have the
similar palette from which one's painting.
So that, that's been a real challenge.
And then I tell you what's, what
was really amazing for me on the
marketing was this August thing
at salad on Joel Salatin's farm
where a guy called Ty Lopez.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, okay.
I don't know that name.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
yeah, look him up.
I mean, he's got millions of followers.
L O P E Z is his surname.
Tai, T A I.
He was actually one of Salatin's
first interns, believe it or not.
And, and, but, but, but he's a
business coach, et cetera, et cetera.
So he spoke for the couple
of hours on what he calls
the 39 triggers of marketing.
Now, now, but, but let's
go back to farmers.
Most farmers just want to produce.
They do not want to market.
They don't trust marketers.
Marketers are snake oil
salespeople, etc, etc.
The fact though, Cal, is if
you're not prepared to market,
you will be a price taker.
Whereas if you can market, you
will You will be a price maker.
Now, there's a possibility and I've, and I
know a couple of farmers who've done this.
They are mostly commodity big producers,
but they have a little sideline, which
they slowly but surely increasing
where they sell direct to the consumer.
So, you don't have to,
it's not an either or.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: right.
Yeah
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
know, in my, in my case, everything is
down the niche line, trying to get the
high margins, branded, da da da da da.
I'm just not big enough to
be a commodity producer.
I'm not.
And, and also our production costs in
the regenerative model are way too high.
So we couldn't be commodity
producers even if we wanted to.
You know, with, I mean, we've
got enough volume and maybe
one or two of the products, but
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
it's just not a game
I'm prepared to be in.
So, so just back to the marketing thing.
So, so there's Tyler Opace talks
about the 39 triggers of marketing.
And he says the first one, and
I actually changed my website.
within days of being
with him because of this.
He says the first thing, top of
everything, is called the blunt reward.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Okay.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
so if we go to my
website now, farmerangus.
ca.
za, and you pull up my website, you'll
see that if you go to the landing
page, I've, I've, I've put in right,
right, the first thing you're going
to read is welcome to where you can
buy the finest regenerative produce.
And learn why and how regenerative
agriculture heals the earth,
provides delicious clean food.
So, that is what essentially we're about.
You can buy our products, and you can
learn about regenerative agriculture,
which is this healing exercise.
That's the blunt reward.
Whereas, before that, the website had,
you know, little pictures and, a thing
that said, we believe in nature's power
to sustain healthy life, da da da da da.
That's not the blunt reward.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: So so
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
was,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: sorry Angus jump
in there So the blunt reward is you're
just telling the viewer or whoever's
landed on your page what you're doing
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Correct.
And what Ty
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: to hunt for it
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
absolutely.
So what Ty did is he said, okay, let's
go talk more about the Blunt Reward.
Who of you in the audience has a website?
So the hands go up.
Who of you is prepared for
me to look at the website and
critique it in public here?
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632:
And the hands went down.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
And no, no, no, no, actually a lot
of people were prepared and then he
looked at people's business cards.
He looked at their brochures and and
it's amazing Carl how few people Have
their blunt reward slap bang right in
the in the middle It's extraordinary.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: websites and
I would say zero of them have the blunt
reward right there at the beginning.
This is really interesting to me.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
It's fascinating.
It's got me, it's really got me thinking.
And then of course, all the other
triggers are supportive of that thing.
They elaborating on it.
So for example, if your target
market is only men, then you need
to have lots of statistics in there.
Men love statistics,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
women not so.
And, and, and, but
that's how you refine it.
But those are refinements further down.
At the top and center of
everything is the blunt reward.
Hmm.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632:
That's very interesting.
Angus, I've got his website pulled up.
I'm going to have to do
some more looking on that.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Oh, you found his website.
Excellent.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: I do.
Yeah, I've got pulled up here,
so I will have to spend some
more time looking at that.
Let's, I think the marketing
aspect is very interesting.
I think being a price.
taker versus a price
setter is very important.
And I, I readily admit we're too
much on that price getter side.
We're working towards
that price setter side.
So, so hopefully we get there.
I actually want to rephrase that.
We will get there at
sometime in the future.
We're working that way.
But let's talk, let's change gears just
a little bit, and we could probably
already transition and call this the
overgrazing section sponsored by Redmond,
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cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: where we're
going to dive in deeper into your farm
and what you're doing on your farm,
because I think, for one, we could talk
that marketing a long time, but let's
talk about your farm and maybe we'll get
some of that other a little bit later.
So first on your farm, you've already
talked about your environment.
You talked about how many hectares
that are set aside for each thing.
Let's focus on your
grazing animals right now.
What do you have in way of grazing
animals and how are you doing that?
How are you managing those?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So we have cattle, we have
laying hens we have pigs.
We used to have sheep, but we
stopped the sheep because of theft.
So Africa is a very criminal society.
Listen, cow, sheep's
the number one takeaway.
Makes no sound, super comfortable
to carry on your shoulders.
And, and it feeds a lot of people.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So, and we used to do broiler chickens.
Unfortunately, I tried
broilers three times.
I had to close the business.
My, my mortalities were too much
and my slaughter, slaughter costs
were just exorbitant because there's
no, there's no infrastructure here
to support small scale farming.
So I would have had to drive, I had
to drive almost a hundred miles to go
and get my, my animals slaughtered.
So you've got to drive with a pickup
and a trailer, come back the next day.
You've got to drive the refrigerated
truck there and come back.
This is epic.
So which, so, so, so anyway, the animals
that we graze in the pasture, the
cattle, the laying hens and the pigs, the
cattle, we move twice a day, every day.
And as I explained to you earlier,
we've got this amazing climate.
We don't have a barn because
our winters are super mild.
We because we've got this irrigated
pasture in, in summer and winter
grazing and rain in winter, we have
green growing grass all year round.
There are times when the, when the
nutrition is down a little bit in
the grass and the cattle sort of
stabilize, but mostly they're just
growing all year, so we never have
to bring in food from outside.
The only things that we do bring
in from outside from the cattle are
the ingredients of the free choice
mineralics, which is another idea
that we got out of, out of the U.
S.
And, and there are very, very
few farms in this country that
do the free choice minerals.
It's just boggles my mind.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: So are
you doing pre mixed minerals or?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
so we, we will buy all
the raw minerals and
then in the compartment of the
wagon, we will put minerals in.
Yeah, yeah,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632:
that cafeteria style.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
exactly.
Cafeteria style.
The brilliant description.
So the cattle, we move
twice a day, every day.
We've currently got about
175 cattle on the farm.
We'll be close to 200 when the,
the calving season finishes.
We, we, we aim to calve
when nature calves.
So in our spring early
summer, which is right now.
I can talk about the
cattle breeds if, if, if,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: I, I do.
I, I love breeds and I know
you're new to the podcast.
That's always my question.
What breeds are you running?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
But let me, I'll come back
to the cattle if you don't
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Okay.
Yeah, that's great.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
about the chickens.
So we've got 6, 000 laying hens
in Eggmobiles, which is another
American invention and they are
incredibly aggressive graziers.
Though the eggmobiles, we move,
they're on wheels and we move them
every single day to fresh pasture.
If we don't, they completely
overgraze and overfertilize the area.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
The, the, so, so, so, so that's
an important thing for us to do.
The pigs is a very different story.
The pigs, we move
approximately once a week.
We have them in areas where we
want them to open up the bush.
And, and, and really get their noses.
I mean, that pig snout is just the
greatest agricultural tool ever developed.
And, and, and, and get them into really
turn up the soil and bring, and bring
fertility into, to a very degraded farm.
You know, we spoke earlier about the farm,
but I actually should tell you a little
bit more about what used to happen here.
So, for a long, long time, it was
a university's farm and they just
did all sorts of tests on it.
And then at one stage
they grew tobacco on it.
and they fumigated all the
soils with methyl bromide
and then planted tobacco in.
And then on an 80 hectare block, which is
what, nearly 200 acres, they did, they did
carrots without rotation for seven years.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So you can imagine the poison that they
had to put on by the end of that time,
you know, and, and, and lots of artificial
fertilizers et cetera, et cetera.
So, so it has been a genuine
regenerative product or project in
our case of rebuilding the soils.
The, the, what's really gratifying.
is that every time, and we do this
three on three yearly intervals,
we test the carbon in the soils.
It's gone up and up and up.
And we've actually been paid carbon
credits three times already for
increasing the carbon in our soils.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
So, so another income stream
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Yes.
Yes.
But I have to tell you, Cal,
it's not a big income stream and
the carbon credit market itself
Collapsed about two years ago on
the bearer's frauds regarding trees.
So it was, it was looking very positive,
the, the, the carbon credits, but
that's just, it's completely collapsed.
However, I do believe that in the
future we will have a more, how can I
say, wider view of accounting and then
farmers who are improving the ecosystems.
their land will become more valuable.
They'll be paid more.
I, I, I, I see a future of,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
yeah.
And then, and then, and then the yeah, so
that's the grazing and, and, and we have
a, we have a rule on the farm where it's
at least six weeks before any animal is
allowed to come back onto that piece of
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, so
letting it rest for six weeks.
One thing you mentioned mentioned
there was the land, the university
had it and you know, growing
carrots on that one section.
When you got started, did you
have to go in and plant your
different forage species?
Yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So, so we had established
all the pastures.
Interestingly a grass called kikuyu,
which is a Kenya, which is a very,
very strong grass has come up.
And the other, there has been a plant
called plantain P L A N T A I N.
I think it's in New Zealand.
It's a forb in a way.
And that's, and that's, and that's grown,
which has been wonderful, but you know,
the grass and legumes we've brought in.
And the mix in the pasture slowly
changes as the soils get more fertile,
the mix has changed differently.
You know, John Kempf has, is very
persuasive in talking about forbs
and how, how dominant the US
prairies are with forbs actually,
and how good they are in the soil.
So a long term project for us is
the introduction of more forbs.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: So with your,
your pastures, you're letting it rest
six weeks before any other animal.
There with your chickens, are
you moving those behind your
cows or those on a separate area?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
No, they, they are in the same,
they will be sometimes in the
same area, so the cattle will
graze through the chicken pasture.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, okay.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
however, we will leave a space of at
least 7 to 10 days for the chickens to go.
In other words, we won't have the
cattle grazing directly in front of
the chickens because the pasture,
it's just too hard on the pasture.
Having the cattle hammer it and then
the chickens hammer it immediately.
That, that, that's why we
want that long recovery.
So, so 10 days, then, then the chickens
can go over where the cattle used to
be and we're, and we're fine with that.
But, but, but, but not less.
I mean, some people have talked about
the chickens following the cattle,
scratching open their manure piles.
We tried that.
It's just too hard on the pasture.
Um, and, and yeah, it
didn't really work for us.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Well, that,
that's interesting because I do hear a lot
of people like follow your, your cattle
with chickens just a day or two later
so they can scratch through the manure.
However,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Kyle, the, the, sorry to interrupt
you, but the, the other, whilst, I just
need to finish that chickens following
cattle thought before we move on.
Our other complication is that we've
got 6, 000 hens and 21 eggmobiles.
So to move those behind the
cattle is a logistical nightmare.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Two, our egg meals are quite big.
They, they three and a half
meters wide by eight meters long.
So that, so, you know, to, to, to
have those things cruising around the
cattle, I, I just, it's too difficult.
And then finally, we have a
predator problem with the chickens.
It's, it's, it's a thing called a caracal,
which is very close to your bobcat
and, and that thing loves the chickens.
I mean, on these farms,
it's only been guineafowl.
So now it's suddenly got dinner
with a white tablecloth as well.
So, we, we were, we have an area,
a 30 hectare block that we've
sort of tried to keep fenced off.
To keep those cats out from
the, the the, the, the chickens.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: you have a
perimeter fence you, you hope you try
and keep those cats out of there from
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Yup.
And then in addition to that, in
addition to that, we've got people
moving around during the day, and then
when my people knock off at five, I
employ security guards at night to look
after, or not at night, they have to
stay with their hands until it's dark
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
they're all inside the Eggmobiles
and then lock the Eggmobiles.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, okay.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Because otherwise that, that
predator, that bobcat cousin
will just massacre them.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
Interesting.
I was wondering about predators.
Do you have to worry about any
predators for you mentioned your sheep?
You get some human predators there.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
That's it.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: any?
Any other issues with your pigs or cattle?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Listen, the two legged predator
that likes to steal the sheep.
Good luck to him trying to catch pigs.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632:
Right, that's true.
Yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
And I'll tell you, if, if he makes the
mistake of getting into the nursery where
we are, pigs are currently, we've got 16
gilts giving birth for the first time.
They are unbelievably aggressive.
I mean, he, he tries to
get close to baby pig.
Mama's, mama pigs, there's
been nothing left of this guy.
So I, I don't, listen, I, maybe
they do steal the pigs, but
I, I, I dare them to try and
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: yeah,
you're not seeing much losses
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
No, not losses there.
And the cattle, fortunately, we've
also got quite big perimeter fencing.
So for these guys to steal
the cattle, they'd need to get
a big vehicle onto the farm
and, and and that would be stopped.
You know, in other parts of South
Africa, cattle rustling is a real thing.
But for us, fortunately, we're okay.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: oh yeah.
So with, with your pigs, you were
just talking about those gilts,
feraling, and you've got them in an
area and you're going to move them.
Is the goal there that you're going
to plant more forages in there so
that you can hopefully open it up
and get more grazing for your cattle?
Or do you have
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
so that, so absolutely, so up, so we've
had pigs on the farm for six years, I
think six or seven years, not quite sure.
And, and, and they were
always in an open area where.
They would graze, and we actually
eventually took the irrigation out,
and so the cattle would only be able to
graze there twice a year with winter.
However, the pigs are, I don't know
how to, I don't even know English,
my English is beyond me, but
they are ultimately disrespectful
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
any human plans that you have,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: That they are.
Yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Okay, so what we've now done is we have
fenced off a huge 12 hectare block in
an abandoned plum orchard where Where
we've fenced it with barbed wire enough
that the pigs can't actually get out
of that area So the electric fences
now if they break the electric fence
We don't really mind because they
are contained within a bigger area.
So our goal with them is to
Revitalize that plum orchard
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
You know, they say pigs have
co evolved as with the trees,
they're like forest animals.
So this is the most foresty
area we have on the farm.
So the first thing is we're the only guys
in South Africa raising pigs outdoors.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
also the only guys who are
curing them without adding
nitrites, nitrates and phosphate.
It's, it's becoming more common
in the, in the, in the U S.
I
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: to
process them on your land
there or you have to take them?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
have a butchery on my farm.
I did process them there
for about three years.
And fortunately I've outsourced that
production to a huge factory in Cape Town.
And, and, and it's actually
one of the things that's
similarly happened with my wine.
I've collaborated with
a much bigger company.
And it's been a real benefit that I've
got, you know, this sort of little
guy is working with the big guy.
So it's not, it's not the big little
guy being crushed by the big guy.
I'm getting, it's the best of both worlds
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
these collaborations, both on
the cured meat and on the wine.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, very good.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So they, I mean, they, we're just lucky
that they were prepared to do this for us.
And so they, like,
contract make it for us.
We're the only stuff in their
factory without the nitrites,
nitrates, and phosphates.
But it's a business that's
kind of going, it goes okay.
I, South Africa is quite a small market.
It's not hugely appreciative
of this kind of thing.
I am looking into export for this product.
Because I, I, I want to find a bigger
market that's more appreciative of it.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yeah.
And are you marketing
locally there to Cape Town?
How far away from Cape Town are you?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Sure.
So we are about half
an hour from Cape Town.
We do deliveries three days a
week, a week into Cape Town and
then the other two days elsewhere.
Our cured meat, this pork I was talking
about, it goes to a national retailer.
So that we take to their big distribution
center and then they ship it around
the country, which is very handy.
And then we do have a client
up in Johannesburg who we,
who we send all our stuff to.
In fact, that we use a a freight
company that specializes in refrigerated
transport and the gate, they broke the
gate going into my butchery on Tuesday.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh no.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So now I've said to them, listen, hold
on, we, you're charging us, but for
a change, we're going to charge you.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: You were right.
Yeah.
Well, let's jump back
just a little bit, Angus.
Let's talk about your breeds of
animals you're, you're running there.
So let's start with your cattle.
What kind of cattle are you running?
And you know, with, with a name
like Angus, you might think
you're running Angus cattle.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Listen, it's a joke that unfortunately I
never get tired of that my father named
me after a cattle breed, although he
claims he didn't name me after a cattle
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
It's amazing that the Angus Breed
Society and hats off to them
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh,
they have done a wonderful job.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
a wonderful job of fooling the
world into thinking there's
something special about Angus beef.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
It's absolute nonsense.
Beef is entirely dependent
on what it's eaten.
I mean, I've done these trials.
I had eight breeds of oxen,
raised them all, same diet, blind
tasted them to all the chefs.
No one can tell you any difference.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Obviously the breed societies are
desperate to tell you a difference
and, and I mean the most, some of the
most fanatical people in the world are
people committed to their cattle breed.
So, I mean, again, I can't talk for
the Anguses in America because I'm
never found in America and, and there's
obviously huge differences within breeds,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, there are.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
but that most of the Anguses
here are quite different.
thin and
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
more framed and skinny.
And, and, and I prefer a bit more meat.
I'm in a very fortunate position that I've
got this amazing grazing all year round.
So I can afford slightly
larger framed animals.
Right at the, so for, for quite
a few years, I was just doing
pure limousine cows, limousine
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Then I crossed them with a red
Angus actually, very nice cross.
And this
I've crossed them with a Bonsmora bull.
So Bonsmora is a, is a, is a, You
could call it a hybrid breed, but
I mean, it's been around since the
forties and fifties now, so it's
quite well established and Dr.
Bornsma, I think, modeled the
Bornsma or for Tom Lasseter
was doing with the Beefmaster
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
and And and so what we do is we
have a closed bullying season
We give them three cycles in
which to conceive So 60, 63 days.
And yeah, we do pregnancy tests and
if they're not pregnant, then we'll
call them, you know, there's usually
one this year, two cows that weren't
pregnant and, and, and then there, and
the, and the, and the rest are fine.
And, and then we did an experiment the
year before with a Simmon tolerable.
And the Simmentaler Bull on the
limousine cows, those calves are just
too big, they were just enormous.
So we had, we, for two of them we
had, we lost a calf with birthing
problems, which is very sad.
But, I've got, literally two days ago
I got the first calf on the ground
of the season, and they're beautiful.
Those little Bonsmara
calves, they'll be fine.
But what I like about the Bonsmara
is there's a lot of boss, Inus in
it and the limousine is obviously
Bo and the Limousine and the
Red Angus is are a boss Taurus.
So we you can get that boss
Taurus, boss Indicus cross.
it's
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632:
Oh, get that hybrid
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
I have to say I was in the States two
years ago, two and a half years ago,
and I spent two weeks driving around
rural Alabama and rural Tennessee.
Just going, trying to find some
ridge err to forms and I was.
I ended up on, on, on a couple
of farms where they were really
involved with the South Poll.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
My gosh, what an animal,
how I was impressed.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: I've
been impressed with him as well.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Damn it's
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: In
fact, that's the bulls I'm
running right now are south Poll
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
wonderful.
Wonderful.
I mean, there's not a single
South Poll in South Africa.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: oh yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
who knows one day I might be
able to actually bring some
embryos in or some semen in.
I'd love to just see them here.
They were just, they were magnificent.
So, and the thought that this
Teddy Gentry, I think it was put
in two And the money was proper.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I have to admit this.
When, when I first heard of South
Polls, I actually, when I thought,
well, Teddy Gentry from the band
Alabama made it, I'm like, I'm not
so sure I'm interested in that,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Mm mm mm
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: and then up on
more research and actually seeing them
and stuff, I've been very impressed.
And then I heard Teddy Gentry talk
at One of the field days they had and
he spent a lot of time researching
what he wanted for his environment
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
mm
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: then Spent
the money to breed towards that that
took if he wasn't a famous singer
He might have got some of that done,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Mm
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Being that gave
him the ability, financially, time wise,
to be able to do it, which is amazing.
I've been pretty impressed, too.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So how long have you had South Poll Bulls?
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: This
will be, I think, three years.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
And are you happy with the offspring?
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632:
I am very happy with them.
We, we've got two herds here.
We have my dad's herd, we have my herd.
With my herd, I'm breeding just
to South Poll and I'm going
completely that direction.
I'm all in on it.
Now, I've got some Corriente cows.
I also have some South Poll cows.
But I'm working that way.
With Dad's herd, it's a limousin
based herd that we've crossed
up with a few different breeds,
and we're liking the crosses.
We have not got any, I guess the
heifers we just weaned will be
half South Pole, some of them.
We use multiple bulls and we've
used multiple breeds on his herd.
So we haven't got any cows in production
in his herd that are half South Pole.
For my herd, I am just
so impressed with them.
I'm impressed with the South, with
the half South Pole, half Corriente.
They just really make a
nice functional cow that.
Then you breed 'em back to that South
Poll, you get a really nice calf that you
would think was full blood South Poll.
So I've been, I've been
really impressed with them.
Just the way they can keep weight
on, even in dry weather, rougher
weather, they just handle it so well.
My next step, and I mentioned
this earlier, we're a price
getter rather than a setter, but.
The goal is to start finishing
them out when I have enough
and work towards that part.
We're
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Mm.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: we're probably
a year off from that right now.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
But, but, but, but your cu cows or
the heifers that don't fall pregnant,
surely that's a perfect animal
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: It is?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
to the butcher.
And, you know, you know, do you know
how I started in the meat business
before I had my own butchery?
I, I would my cu cows and whatever
I take to the, to the heaven's
floor, to take him to butchery
and say, mince the entire thing.
From the nose to the tail and and mince
everything put all together and then I
would sell Little rolls of beast mince
that was literally I think now with
hindsight was a bit stupid I should
you should take out the 10 percent of
the steaks because that's where the
high value is and then mince the rest
But literally just mince the rest.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: That's actually
my thoughts that on my first set that I
will have to slaughter or to process is
It'll be my heifers that didn't breed.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Yeah.
That beef is amazing.
It's, it's delicious.
And they're fat.
So, so again, take literally what we
do is we basically take the steaks out.
They kind of sell themselves.
The forequarter ground
beef, we turn into burgers.
And the hind quarter ground beef,
we turn into just ground beef.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
That's it.
The burgers from the
forequarter are delicious.
And then the ground beef
from the hind quarter.
And then the other challenge, of course,
is that 25 percent of your carcass, well,
again, it's breed dependent, you know,
between 20 and 30 percent of your carcass.
is bones.
Now, we again copied the Americans,
but we've had a bone broth
business now for quite a few years,
and that's going really well.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So, so yeah, Cal, I mean, you guys
already know all that stuff, but
it'd be quite cool to just start
your own brand with ground beef.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Yeah,
which I think's a great idea, you
know, as we work towards that.
Not really as we work towards that.
We're working towards that.
Yeah,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Your question around breeding, to
talk about, I'd like to touch on my
chicken and pig breeds, but before
I do that, let's just, we'll just
talk something about the beef thing.
So, have you heard of a
guy called Dan Kittredge?
The Bionutrient Association.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: I have not.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Dan Kitteridge and it's called
the Bionutrient Association.
Wonderful, wonderful man.
He is about six months away, maybe 10
months away from having a handheld meter
that's spectroscopy based that will tell
you the omega six and three ratio of meat.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Carl, just understand what that's
going to do for the grass fed beef
market because all corn fed beef.
is the omega 6 ratio is super
high on the omega 6 side.
As soon as you drop the corn
and you introduce multi species
pastures, it literally inverts.
And, and, and, and so you have a
very, very low omega 6 to 3 ratio.
And that is, it's my belief that
we are moving into a world where
the consumer is going to be able
to measure for nutrient density.
And Dan's the first guy,
first step towards doing that.
And, and as soon as we've done that,
then, then the, then the feedlots have
got problems because people are going
to go, I just want grass fed and grass
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
I think it, it has potential even
help on, on grass fed because
I've got a friend that they're
like, we tried grass fed once.
We won't try it again.
I'm like let me change your mind.
I'm, I'll, I'll be there soon.
And I'll, I will change your mind.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
And then Cal there, those heifers
of yours will change their minds.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
So, jump back on the breeds on cattle
before you get to the other species.
Your genetics, are they predominantly
South African genetics, or do
you all, have you all imported
genetics from Europe or North
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Well, so the limousines would, would
obviously have come from France.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: yeah, they had to
come from somewhere else to get there, but
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
I, I did bring in some limousine
semen from the UK at one stage.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
But I, I, I, I was a member of the
limousine society, but I stopped that.
I just, I, I just don't have.
Well, I don't have the time or the
desire or the money to build a that's a,
that's a multi multi year dedication to
eventually setting, setting those pools.
So, I mean, I've still got that
semen I'm sure it's quite valuable.
The, the Bonsmara genetics, Bonsmara
was a breed created in South Africa
from lots of different breeds.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Right.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Yeah, so, so, my, my philosophy is I bring
a bull in, a different bull every time.
I keep him for three years because
I only put two year, I only put the
heifers when they two to the bull.
I don't, I don't buy the, I
don't buy the old enough to
bleed, old enough to breed story.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Whereas a lot of people do that.
They, they, they put them in nine, 10
months and they're carving, you know,
before they're two, the first time.
But then what they don't tell you is
how much they struggle to get them
to fall pregnant the second time.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: hmm.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So we've got the closed
bulling season for the cattle.
We've got the, the, we wait until they
are two, two years old before we put
the bull in with them the first time.
And yeah, and, and, and, and,
and it's just, we, we're very
strict about the rotation.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Twice a day, every day, six weeks
before they come back to the same place.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: On the Bons Mara,
have you used that for a number of years?
Are you
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
No, it's only my, I've only used it once.
Um, and what I've seen so far from the
calves, I mean, listen, the one calf is,
Five days old and the other's two days old
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
it's, it's, it's very early to say.
But their father is a magnificent bull.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
and, and I really think a Bonsmara
limousine cross is going to be fantastic.
The, the, the, you know, Bo Bo Bonsma
was brilliant in his, in the Bonsmara,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
and the Bo response Inus, I tell
you, red Angus limousine cross.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632:
Oh, I could see that being a
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
And what I like about the red angus
limousine cross, unfortunately, no
animal that, no carcass that I've seen
has the conformation of a limousine.
I mean, on a butcher's hook, a
limousine carcass is just amazing.
But Cal, it takes years
to get them fat enough.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
It really takes a very, very long time.
So since we've added the red angus
genetics, the carcasses aren't
quite as magnificent, but those
animals get fatter much quicker.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: You
can get them finished earlier.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Much earlier.
So that's the one.
The other limousine cross,
which, which, which people have
experimented with is a Brahman,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
specifically the Mansu Brahmans.
Those are very good.
The other cross breed, which is
really popular here, which does
amazingly, is what they call the
Simbra, which is Simantala Brahman.
But, but it's those F1
crosses that do really well.
You know, so it's the Brahman limousine.
I, at one stage I was
about to buy a Sussex bull.
I don't know if the Sussex is a breed
that's significant where you guys are.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632:
It's not significant here.
I've actually tried to find some in the U.
S.
and I've not had any luck yet because I
think it looks very interesting But I see
they're popular in some other countries.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Yeah.
So, I mean, I've, I've gone
from being hugely limousine pro.
To being limousine and something else pro
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Whereas, but but, but there'll come a
day I hope, where I am less busy and
I can give the South Poll a good look.
Damn.
Such a lovely breeder.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Yeah I I think
they're doing some good things there.
Okay, let's jump over to your chickens
and pigs before we We wrap this up.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Okay, cool.
Sorry man.
I, I, I like you.
I just love talking.
We can
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
No, I'm enjoying it.
I
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So cow, where the,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: I watch
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
okay cool, because I haven't
even noticed what the time is.
The, the, the Chickens, we
specifically choose white chickens
because of the heat stress.
So the brown birds get much hotter.
We have two breeds of hens, one lay
white eggs, the other lay brown eggs.
So they're called ambelinks and leghorns.
But, but we have farmed, so one of the
things Cal, to the point of marketing
is we do farm tours all the time.
My record is I think four in one day.
So people will come and, because
we're so close to Cape Town people
come and visit us all the time.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yes
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
and, and I guess about seven out of
10 times when people ask us, why have
you got white eggs and brown eggs?
And I say to them, well,
up until 11 o'clock in the
morning, she lays a brown egg.
And then after that, and more than
more than half the people believe me.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632:
Oh, I bet you so yes, yeah,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So we choose those for that, for, for,
for, for the, for the heat stress.
And then the pigs we've actually using
duroc boars, which are brown boars.
Because the flip works for them.
They handle the heat
better than the white pigs
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
and, and I mean, listen, the Duroc
pros will tell you the marbling
in a Duroc pig is better, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
My theory of the pigs again
is I want a pig that is
epigenetically adapted to my farm.
So I'm, I'm now in my third
breeding cycle because I always
just used to buy in wiener pigs.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
But you know, I could talk at length
about how we ended up breeding.
It was the teenage pregnancies
that caused a big problem for us.
And anyway, so we, we, we've now really
focused on, on trying to get our pigs
epigenetically adapted to the farm.
So again, with a boars, my philosophy
is going to be that I'll keep them
for three breeding cycles and, or
however, because pigs are quicker.
So it might be four or five, but I don't
want them covering their daughters.
And that's when I'll
bring in new genetics.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Right.
Yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
But listen, pig, pig outdoor pig
farming is an engineering challenge.
That's it.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Those things are destructive.
Mamma mia.
The other thing that's really fortunate
for us is that South Africa, you're
allowed to feed food waste to pigs.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, okay.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
And the result is that our pigs get this
incredible diet of expired fruit and veg.
Expired ice cream porridges that didn't
work properly, you know, just lots
of different things, which is, which
is fantastic.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Yeah.
It gives you a little bit
more flexibility there.
One thing, just real short,
you're selling all that locally.
Have you found the demand to be I know
you have the three species and you
had sheep and you've changed that and
you're not doing broilers anymore.
Are your customers asking
for some of that or?
Are the three species you have with
the eggs and then the pork and beef
really meeting your consumer's needs.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Yeah, well, the eggs not.
So we were producing five and
a half thousand eggs a day.
Bird flu came along.
The effect of bird flu was that
we could not buy replacement hens.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
then for a whole year, we've been at
two and a half thousand eggs a day.
Now, a month ago, we managed to
get some replacement hens, so our
numbers are slowly picking up again.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
We touch wood and we're very grateful.
We're selling out of all our eggs, so
we could have a bigger egg business.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
beef, we deliberately pulled our
horns back because because we want
to just, Instead of buying in, the
other guys making the money, I want to
breed my own and grow them by myself.
So the beef business,
I've really shrunk down.
There's a, there's a, there's
a quite a fancy hotel.
that's opened that's, that's on the
estate actually being renovated at
the moment, but that hotel, we are
going to exclusively supply them.
So our beef is, our beef is, our beef
is ready for ultra local consumption.
The cured meat is a national thing.
And the wine is my first export product.
So the wine is
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yeah.
Do you, do you graze your vineyard at all?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Yes.
Once a year super high
density with a cattle.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
the reason for that is we want them to
graze the cover crop, smash it completely.
We obviously want their manure
and urine as a fertilizer.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
And our, because we, we farm our vineyards
organically and biodynamically, we don't
use herbicides to, to kill the weeds.
Sorry, the, the growth, but we want
as much biomass as, as possible.
And the enzyme in a herbivore spit
that stimulates plant growth, we
want that in the plant because
the more biomass we can generate.
In winter and in spring when the
hot summers come that biomass
covers the soil and keeps it cool.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh yeah.
Very good.
Angus, it's time we transition.
We do our Famous Four,
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cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: And same four
questions we ask of all of our guests.
Our first question.
What is your favorite grazing
grass related book or resource?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Stockman grass farmer
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632:
Excellent resource.
That's, I don't even know.
I think back to when I started getting
that and I don't even know where I came
across it, but it's a tremendous resource.
And the great thing is they
deliver it to me each month.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Well, mine's also delivered but via email
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, well, okay.
So I splurge, I have the email
version or the digital version
and the paper version, because,
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
to get the paper version it's
fantastic reading it in my hands
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632:
Well, that's that's the thing.
I think I love technology.
I think I would enjoy consuming
the digital version of More.
I've got a e ink tablet that I read on.
I think, oh, that's great,
but that's not what I do.
I end up finding I
consume the paper version.
That's the one that I
always have next to me.
It's one I can leaf through at
any time, and I just, I read more
when I have the paper version.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
And I can see also the other thing is
the way Stockman grass farm has been
put out by there's an article that
starts and then it goes to this page,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: yeah.
And you gotta jump.
Yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
in a paper version, is much easier
than in the digital version,
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: It is.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
So, so, so to read the digital version,
you've actually got to say, okay, I'm now
committing to sitting and reading this.
You're absolutely right.
So, I think when, when my subscription
comes up for renewal, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna get the, the, The paper
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
You know, we just have issues with
our post is rather unreliable down
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yeah.
Actually, I'm looking here.
I have the renewal envelope I just
got from them that, oh, right here.
I have to renew mine.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
That's wonderful.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Our
second question, what is your
favorite tool for the farm?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Solar powered electric fence.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yes.
I, I love the, the capability
of having a solar powered
energizer and the portability.
It gives me the ability to run
electric fences on land that I don't
have power to, which is so nice.
Our third question, what would you
tell someone just getting started
on their regenerative journey?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Avoid paying school fees.
Try and limit yourself to doing one thing.
That's been my biggest mistake.
I've just done too many things.
Limit yourself literally
to doing one thing.
Understand first, you must understand
the production systems and then
you have to go into marketing.
So you've got to design a very good logo.
Thanks to Tai Lopez.
You've got to know
what's the blunt reward.
You got to really bring
people along on your story.
And even if you're starting,
just, just start an Instagram
page and take photographs and
tell people what's going on.
People just love it.
They come along on the journey.
You've got to bring people
along on your journey with you.
Don't put yourself under pressure
that, Ooh, I've got to have
all of these things in place.
You're starting man.
Everybody wants to see someone starting.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Right.
Yeah.
There's a lot you said there just putting
it out there and I'll be honest That's
a struggle for me because I I go through
and I look at the pictures I've taken
I'm like, oh none of those look good.
None of those.
I'm worried about everything.
You just put it out there It's kind
of like what I did with the podcast.
I need to apply to the Farm a little bit
more but the podcast I knew I didn't know
what I was doing, but it didn't matter.
I was going to start because
that's the way you learn.
That's kind of the same way with
putting your, your farm out there
and getting it out to the public.
Just share what you have.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Yeah.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632:
And lastly, Angus, where can
others find out more about you?
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Yeah.
The, I'm most active on Instagram.
Farmer Angus Speer, S P E R, I've
got a website, it's farmerangus.
co.
za there, you know, you can
email me through that website.
I, my Instagram is automatically
linked to Facebook.
Although I can tell you that
I've never been on Facebook.
I just know it's, it's, it's,
it's linked to Facebook.
I've also just started a little TikTok
channel and a YouTube shorts channel.
Obviously we, the best
way is to come visit us.
I realize it's a long way from Oklahoma.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Yeah, it is.
I'd love to come visit.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
we are very, and it's cheap for you guys.
You can't believe how far the
dollar will take you in Africa.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Very, very far.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: You know,
that'll have to be on my to do list.
My wife has this little
problem with vacations.
If I say we're going on a vacation
and then I somehow include looking
at a farm or, or animals, she's
like, that's not a vacation.
Yeah, it is.
It's still a vacation.
We just took a little bit of
time for the business so we can
count some of those expenses.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Yes, yes.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Well,
Angus, really enjoyed talking to you
today and appreciate you coming on.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
Yeah, man.
The pleasure has been all
mine and strength to your arm.
I look forward to, you know, reading
more about what you guys are doing,
especially your direct consumer beef.
cal_1_10-03-2024_125632: Well, thank you.
Appreciate that.
squadcaster-geg3_1_10-03-2024_195632 (1):
All the best.
Stay well.
Cal: I really hope you
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