Come Back To Earth | Music & Mental Health

Neither Could Dylan blends rock, punk, and folk into something entirely his own. In this Season 3 finale, Jamie shares how a pandemic hobby became a full creative practice, and how self-production and learning new instruments helped him break through the limits he'd put on his own sound. 
 
Jamie dives deep into the creative process, revealing how he overcame limitations and explored new musical territories. You’ll discover: 
- The unexpected inspiration that sparked his solo project during lockdown. 
- How writing lyrics first allows him to shape his music around the emotions he wants to convey. 
- Insights into the importance of pushing creative boundaries and not limiting oneself to a single genre. 
- The joy of creating music that reflects personal growth and experimentation. 
 
Learn why embracing challenges can lead to incredible breakthroughs, both musically and personally. It’s not just about creating music; it’s about building a world of sound that resonates with your true self. 
 
Go backstage HERE
Theme music by: Lincoln Parish

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From the Studio
This episode is part of Come Back To Earth, produced by Story House. We believe story is a tool for meaning-making, not just performance.
Leave a voice message or reflection

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I read every letter. If something in this episode landed for you, or raised something you're still sitting with, I'd love to hear it.

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Find the House

  • (00:00) - Neither Could Dylan
  • (00:06) - Opening Memory
  • (01:09) - Intro
  • (01:29) - Conversation with Neither Could Dylan
  • (34:58) - Closing Reflection
  • (35:57) - Outro

Creators and Guests

Host
J.D. Murgolo
Founder of Story House

What is Come Back To Earth | Music & Mental Health?

What does it cost to make music, and what does it give back? Come Back to Earth is a weekly music interview podcast where host J.D. Murgolo sits down with musicians and songwriters to explore mental health, creative survival, and the stories hidden behind the songs.

We go beyond the stage to uncover the wounds, turning points, and hard-won hopes that shape an artist's life. Through honest conversations about the creative process, music and mental health, and what it means to keep going, this is a show where the music is the doorway — and the soul is the destination.

Because the most important thing an artist makes isn't the record. It's the decision to come back to themselves.

Neither Could Dylan
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[00:00:00] Every story begins somewhere. This one begins with Story House Studios.

There was a time when music meant waking up to it. Six in the morning, Bob Dylan at the other end of the house, my father already up, already moving. I didn't always want to be awake, but I remember how the house felt: alive, held together by sound. Years later, I think about how small things carry weight. A song drifting down a hallway, a phone ringing, a moment you assume will repeat.

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't This season began with the idea that music outlives the person, that it keeps playing long after the room goes quiet. But there are moments in life that hinge on something smaller, a ring, a missed call, a driveway. And [00:01:00] sometimes we don't know what it meant until years later.

That's where this episode begins.

This is Come Back to Earth, a podcast at the intersection of music and mental health from Story House Studios. I'm JD, a storytelling alchemist, and each episode is an invitation to return to the stories, wounds, and hopes behind the songs

Thanks so much for having me. My name is Jaime Jakubszek, uh, but I am Neither Could Dylan. Uh, Neither Could Dylan is my solo project I started just a couple years ago, uh, during the pandemic actually. It's a solo project because I simply could not meet up with anybody at the time, uh, given the nature of the pandemic.

Yeah. So, um, it really start-- kicked off this, uh, resurgence of creating music for me, um, and led to me deciding to play all the parts and wear all the hats of the process as we went. And, uh, [00:02:00] uh, it's s- yeah it's been a crazy sort of journey since then. I play a mix of rock, punk, and folk music, depending on- Mm-hmm

my mood and what I'm talking about. I t- I tend to write my lyrics first, so then I just adapt my music to the mood I want to convey with those lyrics. So I don't really feel like I'm kind of held to any specific genre, but I would say I s- I stand nestled within that that realm. And, um, yeah, that's kinda where I started this project, and have released a few albums since then, and I'm working on a new EP now.

I'm kinda always working on stuff. Something, right. So yeah that's where we're at currently.

That summed it up beautifully. Um, thanks for playing. You know, that's the correct answer in my opinion, you know, to, to what kind of music do you play? Y- you know, is that it's not the non-answer, it's not the like, "Oh, I'm a rock artist," or you know. I think like really the only people that can get away with like a, a truly specific is when you get into the classical, but then even then [00:03:00] you have so much breadth 'cause you don't s- you're not gonna necessarily see a classical artist all of a sudden play metal.

But beyond that, I think there, mm-hmm. My son asked me at the, the dinner table the other day, like s- maybe something about either my favorite artist or favorite song and like instantly like, you know, even my wife like I think made a noise that was just like, "Oof." You know, 'cause it's just that. You know?

It's, it's wherever your mood lies, and certainly you can give somebody a genre, you can give somebody like a style, but it's also, if music's doing its job right, it's- It fits into whatever you're feeling, and sometimes that's very melancholy and, and that can come out very strong in, you know, like rock version too, but, you know- Yeah

certainly has its kind of pieces, right? Yeah, definitely, yeah. I feel like you never wanna, you never wanna hold yourself back in any way. So if it calls for like during this project I've learned new instruments because I've just been like, "Hey, I really need piano on this. I don't know how to play that yet, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna learn how to play piano."

And it changes the entire process, but it [00:04:00] also just changes the way you start to look at creating and your own limitations or lack thereof. Um- Yeah ... so you open up the door to so many other things beyond that. And all that I think just kind of spirals into your everyday life as well, which is kinda cool, um- Yeah

'cause you might, you know, start out writing, writing new songs and yeah, you try something totally out of your wheelhouse and you're like, "Wow, I didn't think I could do that." And then in your daily life you start to approach things with the attitude of- Same ... "I don't know if I can do that, but I'm gonna give it a shot," and- Yeah

and that, that also opens up a whole realm of possibilities, which is pretty cool. So let's start there before you dive into any like, specific project, is just that, like creative process and, that to me, like that's wild that, you know, you, "I don't know how to play piano but I'm gonna just do it," 'cause it's not just a, "Okay, let's sit down with a book."

You know- ... this is, this is something a little bit more involved, possibly challenging. But it brings to mind like the question that I always you know, wonder like to ask or even, you know, as you read, like, big name artists almost say the same thing, like never learned how to [00:05:00] play music.

I forget who I was listening to I think it was Hayley Williams the other day on a podcast, and she said, like, she ne- she started to, like, play piano or something like that, and then just she wishes she could go back and, like, learn, like, musical theory and things like that. Yeah. But, like, never...

And, like, that always blows my mind that it, that s- here's somebody so talented and you just have a musical brain. So start there, just what that looks like as far as playing all the pieces, as you said. But then- Yeah ... coming up on a piece that you know feels this way and needs this, but don't know how to do it.

It's kind of funny. Just to touch on that, I always find it very funny when, um, when professional musicians- ... make comments like that because I'm like- So many ... I'm like, "This is your full-time gig for the most part." Yeah. They might have other gigs, but this is basically what you do and what your main priority is, and you're telling me you don't have time to go- There's so many

sit and learn how to do something? And I could, I could list, like, five right off the top of my head- Like, like- ... that I've heard that, um- ... it's crazy. It, it starts to kinda get to you 'cause you're just like, man, uh, not to play the whole, [00:06:00] like, indie musicians have it so much harder, but, like, at a certain point you do when you're comparing to a Hayley Williams.

Yeah. You don't get to just sit back and, and ride your coattails of your one hit. And, like, you can't do that anymore. No one's impressed- ... anymore by that. Like, I just find it crazy. Yeah. Um, but that's, like, besides the point. What's, what's more sad about that is, again, re- reaching that point of, like, limiting yourself and saying, "Oh, I just don't have time to bother with learning because I, I know a piano player.

I can just go grab a piano player." Yeah. Don't you have that hunger that says "What can I do and what would I create if I had- Yeah ... that skill set?" Because that's why I started playing music to begin with. I, and I don't know anybody that would say otherwise. Like, why do you- Yeah ... learn an instrument at all?

Why do you learn to sing? Um- Right ... because you want to express something and you, you need tools to do that. Yeah. So why not, why would you not wanna continue expanding on your skill set as much as you can? It's hard, don't get me wrong. Like, especially- Yeah ... with right now, like, I play, And I w- I don't play everything as [00:07:00] well as-

as the other, to be clear. Like I, but I play guitar, I play bass, I sing, I play drums, and I play a little bit of keys. With that I can create a full band's production and a f- an orchestral production because of the keys aspect- Yeah ... of that. So that's, that opens up so much. Like it's- Yeah ... insane. And I just can't imagine just being like, "No, I'm never gonna try."

What it sounds like to throw a shaker in here. Yeah, no. What it sounds like to throw a marimba in here. Like, it just seems like a, a weird place to limit yourself. Um, it's-- You don't have to do everything, but- Yeah ... but why not take a few minutes, I g- I guess is where I, I kinda settle down. Because, uh, some of my favorite productions now are ones where I'm like, "Whoa, I came up with that keys line?

That's crazy." Yeah. I I know I struggled like crazy through it, but by the time you get to the end, you're like, "That sounds really cool." Yeah. And it really conveys that emotion that I can't get out of a guitar or a bass or whatever. And I think that's the most exciting part about creating music for me, [00:08:00] is just seeing how much I can build the worlds and- Yeah

and knowing that I built the world. Like that's it. And so what's the, the difference, you know, and ex- and, forgive my, like, naivety here, but you know, you can, you can go and find that beat. You can kinda piece it together digitally, uh, and, and, and- Yeah ... always have been able to in some way, shape, or form, and I feel like that's kinda where we land when it comes to creating music and similar to, you know, creating a, you know, a podcast that- that's the first thing I wanna tell you. Anybody can do it. It's a free platform. You just need this. And sure, you do. You can find, f- a free download of a, a drum beat or a guitar or, you know, whatever you need. But then Where's the limit? Like, you know, where do you, where do you, where do your, where does your brain switch and go sure, I can do that real easy, but if I tried to play it, it might, this might be a pain in the butt to learn how to do it-" Yeah

but the, the payoff is gonna be better." Like, how do you, how do you wrestle with that, just going, "Ah, I'm doing all these pieces. I could just [00:09:00] find this somewhere." I, yeah ... not even looking for a person, but just, you know, like being still in control somewhat, but saying, "I really want, like, full control." Y- yeah, I think for me, like, it comes down to, well, it comes down to, I guess, two things.

Uh, one, and I say this with saying I have great respect for the, the world's greatest, like, hip hop producers that, that use samples, that just do loops or all that kind-- They, they utilize that, and that is, that is the craft. Um, I, I know that that is its own craft, and I have all power to you. Do your thing.

For me, it's the one p- the first part of it is that I find it remarkably boring to sit down and go through a sample library and say, "Do I like this kick sound? Do I like this kick sound? Do I like this snare sound? Do I like this-" Yeah. Whoa. Kill, like, kill the whole mood for me right off the bat. I don't wanna be there now.

Like, later. Um- You could, you could do cool stuff, for sure. Um- Yeah ... and there's a lot of very talented people that, that do that kind of thing, but wow, [00:10:00] is it ever mind-numbingly boring to me. I would rather sit at a drum kit that I don't understand all the different parts and pieces of it yet, and- Yeah

grab a stick and just say, "Oh, that makes that sound. Oh, that's kinda cool. That makes that sound. Cool, if I hit it here, that's, that makes a different sound." Yeah. That's more interesting to me. Um, and I think what it comes down to is I was raised on, like, rock music. I was raised on incredible rock musicians- Yeah

Who all put in their, so to speak, 10,000 hours to get- So proficient at their instrument that when you look at them it's effortless and you're like you're so talented." It's not, not that they are s- they, yes, yes they're talented, but it's, it's they put in- Yeah ... so many hours from the time they were yea big to now that when you look at them you're like, "Whoa, they're insanely talented," like, "I could never be like that."

It's like, yes you can but you have to also put in those hours. I remember, yeah. And for me that's like the other most rewarding part about, when I'm looking to produce a song is, is knowing that again that I'm doing it, that I'm [00:11:00] playing the part, that I didn't just sit through and say, "Oh well this person already got a really cool drum sound."

I w- I wanna create a cool drum sound. Like I don't wanna- Yeah ... I don't wanna take somebody else's work and just manipulate it in that way. Like it's just, it's just not that interesting- Yeah ... I think. And then, uh, the other, I guess the third part of it all is I like to know that what I create I could pull together a band and go on a stage and we can recreate it with just instruments and not have to rely on- Yeah

a computer sitting there and having to hit little buttons and to make that, that happen. Like it's not that I don't s- consider it real music, it's still music to do that. It's just- Yeah ... there's the, the tactile nature of physically playing an instruments that I think changes everything about music for me.

And even that brings a whole new like, like nuance to the way it's played that you created it with an instrument and somebody-- Now you have to, teach somebody else but they could potentially hear it in a different way, and not necessarily [00:12:00] change it entirely, but even just the slightest twinge is like, heard and- Yeah

Good or bad, y- you know, and you get to play around with that. But I think, and I've said it a couple times already this season it's just like hearing it live. That's what-- That's when it rings true an artist for me. I think that's, if I like look at the ones that I play, listen to the most- Mm-hmm

it's because I heard them live. And sure they had a song that was exactly the same but it was probably the one that everybody's listening to the radio, but the other songs, the other 99% of them that they played, there was something different that you weren't... It was almost like they didn't want you to sing along with it, but at the same time- Right

it was like their way of showing like, "Watch, like I-" I enjoy this song so much that I'm gonna do it just a bit different and have fun with it. Being able to play with that instrument. And you can certainly play with the technology too, but you're right. I mean, it comes with a different, different set of playing with it that you have to...

That went from your brain to somebody else's brain and not, like, necessarily on paper, you know? Yeah. [00:13:00] Oh, for sure. I mean, even if you, if you learn say, like a guitar solo and, like, you're gonna play that a little differently every time- Yeah ... unless you force yourself and commit yourself to playing it exactly the same every time.

Unless you played Stairway to Heaven every day. And it, and- Right. Yeah. Yeah, and at that point, it's, at that point you're not expressing yourself musically- Correct ... you're just playing a piece of music. Correct. And I think there's a distinction there, too, which again is something you kinda lose when you're relying so much on, on technology and other people's, uh, creations to create your art.

It's limited. You're going to... You get back to limiting yourself and limiting your ability to express yourself. Have you always been this way? Like, I mean, you were talking about, and I think that's beautiful that you've, you've kind of pl- at least, like, personally, that you kind of walk through life the same way.

That it's like, here's another challenge. Like, how do I... Okay, I did this in the studio similar when I couldn't play this instrument- Mm-hmm ... but, like, you walk through life. Have you always been that way, or did this kinda just as you developed as a person, but also as a, as an artist, did that you know, [00:14:00] mesh it all together and, and learn to treat challenges that way?

Or, you know, have you always kinda A watch me do this kind of attitude, you know? Yeah, I think I've always been open to, like, trying new things, and if I wanted to try something, I would try it. But I would say I... It took me most of my life to gain any sort of confidence in anything that I was doing.

So sometimes I think people may have seen me when I was younger and been like, "Oh, you're so confident that you're, you're going out there and doing that." And I'm like, "No, I'm not." No, you're not. Like, not a chance. Not a chance. Like, I'm freaking out. But in recent years, since I started this project specifically, and I have taken this, this complete ownership over what I'm doing and, and going through these steps to create everything from the ground up that has really changed things.

Yeah. Because I think, I mean, it took me, it took me years of my life just to be able to say, like, "I can kinda play guitar." Like, it's a hard thing to do to learn an instrument. I- Yeah ... I've always told people I'm not, again, I'm not someone that is naturally gifted at anything. I [00:15:00] have to work really hard to get to a point where I'm- Yeah

like, comfortable in saying, "Okay, yeah, I can play something." Other people might have their perceptions of it when you've reached that point, but for me, it took a very, very long time to say- Yeah ... "Okay, I can, I can kinda sing. I can kinda play this." Uh, and then once you get that with one thing, then it's, that's when it trickles into- It trickles into-

okay, what else can I do? What else can I, what else can I try? And now I'm at a point where I'm like, okay, I've gotten, like, decent at, like, comfortable enough with myself in a few things that I, that's how I can now apply to everything else, 'cause I'm like, okay, if you can do this, even though it's, like, a weird specific thing that you're starting with then what, what's stopping you- What's next?

Yeah ... from all those other things you wanted to really commit to in the past, and what's stopping you? Like, n- nothing should ever stop you, I think from trying to grow and trying new things and just exploring what you're capable of. Yeah. And so I'm guessing that that has a lot to do with what got you here.

You know, you mentioned at the top here that, you know, you began this, like, solo project. And yes, [00:16:00] partly, you know, this is, like, that was kind of the only option, but you could've very well not as well. Mm-hmm. So just, just a short walk there, through just that decision to say, "Okay, I'm gonna do this myself."

And also kinda, I d- I'm always fascinated by names altogether, but, you know, especially when it comes to artists, that the choice is you either are your, your name, and that's how everybody's gonna see you, or you're this other, I don't wanna say identity, because it's not necessarily, like, trying to, like, hide who you are, 'cause they'll, we'll figure out your real name eventually.

But, you know, the choice of, of the name and then just how this all puts together in, in one project. You know, as we're sitting here talking about the music what does that all look like then as you came together? Yeah. I think, um, so, like- As, as short as I can kinda say, I started playing guitar when I was like 13.

Uh, and then I got my first band together in high school, and then, you know, come university time, our- the members I had all kind of, we all dispersed. So things broke down, and at that point, you kind of [00:17:00] reach a p- realization that you're like, "Okay, shoot, what do I do now? I guess I need more players or whatever."

And I didn't, so I didn't have the thought process back then to be like, "Well, I could just do it all myself" at 18, 19 years old. That didn't even... Nope. Like- Nope ... was not even a, a thought. Um, but I, I did start thinking about like, "Okay, well, I could do like a solo acoustic, like folky thing or something." So that's when I kinda got really into folk music, and, um, but the problem with that is you're very vulnerable and exposed when you're just you, yourself, and a guitar- Yeah

on stage. And I think I had a lot of things I wanted to say back then, but I didn't know why I felt like they should be heard. Yeah ... so I never, I never really made the push to to really put that out. Again, my confidence was not where it should be, and my, my general direction, I didn't know. 'Cause I, I us- when you're a kid, I think you kinda look at music like, "I just wanna play music 'cause I wanna play shows."

I just wanna jam, right? I wanna just, that's, I just wanna have fun, you know? Like, you're not thinking about what you're saying or why you're [00:18:00] saying it. Is this loud enough? Is it gonna- Yeah ... are, is your ears still there? No? Okay, I'll keep playing. Yep. Uh-huh. Exactly. Um, and so then, like through the years, I kinda, I, I was still working in music.

I was actually an audio engineer in, in studios for a couple years, but I was always working with other artists, and I wasn't working on any of my own music. Yeah. So somewhere along the way, I just took a back seat and I was, I'd kinda, told myself, "Well, I guess you're not meant for the stage, you know?

You're not meant to do your own thing. You're just meant to be a, a player for somebody else or whatever." And then that, I guess that got me down over the years. I started to get, like, really depressed about it. Sure. Um, without, without realizing that that was what was kind of making me a little depressed.

And, uh, so when it, by the time the pandemic kinda came around and I, I was going through a lot in my life personally, um, and I think I had been for so many years and I hadn't addressed any of it. So I started writing songs again for myself just to expel- Just to get it, yeah ... what was going on. And, um, and that's when I realized I know why I wanna say things [00:19:00] now.

It's, so that took 15 years or so to be like, I, I have something to say, yes, and I know why I wanna say it now. I know why, yeah. So then that changes the whole thing 'cause then you're like, "Okay, now I wanna bring it to a stage, but I gotta do the steps to get there, and I gotta polish it up and bring it to a point where I'm comfortable saying, 'Hey, I want you to hear this song I, I wrote.'"

Yeah. And then that's what turned into I gotta do all the parts because- ... I have this vision and I have to put it together now. So that's how Neither Could Dylan was really born. It really came down to I, I have something really important that I wanna talk about, and this is the best way I can think of to, to bring it to other people and see if it resonates with anybody else.

Sure. Yeah, that's, that's where that happened. That's, I mean, I- to me that, it's the most, like, if there was a perfect story of, of how to, how music came out of somebody, it's that. It's just it was allowed to kind of breathe for a little bit, you know? I don't even, I wouldn't even say, like, held in because how many times, you know, do you hear people that say it took, you know, five, 10, 15 [00:20:00] years for something and, you know, our immediate reaction is like, "That's a long time."

But at the same time- Mm-hmm ... we forget that there's a human- Yeah ... attached to it and there is no specific timeline for really anything. Exactly, yeah. Um, you know? It's just how it feels and you, you felt it and regurgitated it. And so what does that then look like here, um, as we're talking about just the way you create, the things, you know, you create how does it sound?

What does it, how did these words eventually fall out and get pieced together? I think, um, what it came down to really is I wanted to have conversations with people that were not interested in having those conversations for one reason or another. People are obviously, people are people. Uh- Mm-hmm

you, I might want to address a situation with somebody because it's hurting me or it's bothering me or, or it's interesting to me, but you can never force somebody else to have those conversations with you. Sure. Um, and that's, I think that [00:21:00] takes a long time to understand as a person. That's, because you, then you take that personally.

You're like, "Well, what, there's something wrong with me. You don't wanna talk to me because of whatever reason." That's a whole other conversation. That's, you know, the psychology of humans. We could get into it, but that's, there's no point really. But, but basically so it came down to I started writing these songs because I, I needed to ha- I needed to have these conversations even if it was- Yeah

with myself. And I needed to figure out how I felt about things because I, if I wasn't talking to myself about them in some way, then they weren't going anywhere and I wasn't able to process the feelings I was having all the time. And I, I'm being intentionally vague because this covered- ... so many things.

So many. Yeah. Um, so but what I, what I quickly realized when I was writing my first record, my first solo record, was a lot of the things I was talking about, uh, had to do with, uh, addiction. Um, it had to do with abuse, it had to do with alcoholism, it had to do with not feeling [00:22:00] wanted, not feeling heard, not feeling- Yeah

seen, um, and grief. Lots of grief. Um, my, I would say most of my catalog if you listen to it is I am a funeral. Um, I, I am an ever-ending funeral. And That's, so that's what was coming out, and what I realized as I started writing the songs and what turned me to wanting to put them into a record was, well, I really wanna share these ideas with people that might- Yeah

feel the same way or might also be confused about why they're struggling with things like I have been. Because I, again, because it was the pandemic and I was, I was really struggling at the time with, there's so much chaos going on- Yeah ... in the world right now. Everyone is really struggling, and I didn't know how I could help in any way, uh- Yeah

'cause I was just, like, in my house in Ontario, and I was by myself 95% of the day. And I was just like what do you do? I can't really- What do you do? Yeah ... I can't even really go out of the house. We're not supposed to go anywhere. [00:23:00] Like, it was a whole-- so it became a question of, well, how can I help?

I d- I don't have money to throw at a million charities. I don't have that, those type of abilities. Yeah. I have myself, my life, and my experiences, and maybe that's something. So that's, that's why I started doing that. And, uh, it was-- So it really, it started kind of from a selfish place. It was just for me to get a handle on what I was dealing with.

Yeah. But I really do believe that in sharing these stories it can help other people because it wasn't until I was listening to other my favorite musicians or just other people in general when they shared certain experiences in their life that may have been very traumatic, for example that helped me to hear it from somebody else even though it wasn't the exact same story I went through necessarily.

Uh, it was, it was something to hold onto that I was like, "Oh, somebody else gets it." Yeah. Um, so that's what I wanted to do for other people, and that's why I'm still doing this now. That's my whole body of work. Like, everything you're explaining is just, I'm just nodding my head over here 'cause to [00:24:00] me that's-- I don't wanna say that's where we necessarily get it wrong, but I think we just like, steer away from, like, other versions of stories.

Like, we just want You know, the specific. Yes, we might want the traumatic, but we want, like, the super traumatic and- Yeah ... just so we can say, "Nah it wasn't me at least." You know? But there, there are lesser versions of that everybody goes through, and I think just the simple like what you pointed out, the simple fact that, like, just connecting on some level i- is exactly what a story is supposed to do.

You know- Mm-hmm ... whether it's this simple love for summertime or, you know, the fact that you've gone through something absolutely, you know, challenging, like, you know, abuse or addiction, um, grief. You know, it, it's, it... Somewhere, e- everything in between and then some. You know, it's being able to say that.

Mm-hmm. And, you know, being uncomfortable with it or, or comfortable in the fact that somebody else, you know, appreciates the same thing or has a life, too. Um, and I think- Yeah, I think you have [00:25:00] to be, get a c- get comfortable with being uncomfortable- Yeah ... before you're able to ever become comfortable- Yeah

with, with what it is because, uh- And we say that, right? We say that so often with things, and it's like, you know, do you know what you just quoted? It, you know, like, and it... This is what that means, you know? And y- your favorite song over there, like, that's exactly what it's saying. Like, I think sometimes, you know, you, you kinda catch people off guard and, you know, when they share, you know, when the artist, like, finally shares, like, what they, what they meant by it, and you're like, "What?

What?" Yeah. "That's, that's not what I thought at all." And it's like, well, maybe you did think it, but you, your brain steered you away 'cause you're just so used to steering away from that thought. And I think- For sure ... the most, like, talented musicians, if you wanna call it, like, talent or not it is...

They're aware of that. They're aware of just the fact that you did it... I wouldn't even call it selfish, that you just did it because you felt like you needed to get that out of your system, and that- Mm-hmm ... that's a human thing anyway. But the, the best part about it is that you were willing to put that on, [00:26:00] on, you know, as a performance, um, for other people to hear.

And so just the song here that you, you know, you shared with, with me that you wanted to talk about, um, or the project spe- specifically, I feel like goes right, right in the face, um, of that, of being able to say, like, "Here's something huge that we need to talk about," if you're okay with talking about it.

"Driveway"- Yeah ... um, uh, just, I, I think it's probably a, a good example of just that, that it's on the nose, like, "Here's what we're talking about, and here's why." And not to make necessarily, you know, to purposely make people uncomfortable, but to, to kind of like, "Hey," like, "we have to talk about this" kind of thing, right?

Yeah. "Driveway," uh, I guess I'll, I'll sort of tell you a bit about the story of "Driveway." Yeah. Um, 'cause "Driveway"- J- part, part and parcel to everything I've been discussing about like how it takes so much time to get to a certain point with things. Driveway is a story that happened when I was 20 years old.

Um, a friend of mine who was 21 at the time committed suicide, uh, when he was away at university. And [00:27:00] we-- me and my, my friends, my friend group that we were all close together, um, we all took it in very different ways, I think. But I think the overwhelmingly most of us were just in so much shock 'cause we were so young, he was so young, and none of us...

The big thing is that none of us saw it coming. Like sometimes you hear stories and you, you hear about- Yeah ... somebody who's committed suicide and you're like, "That's really sad, but they'd been struggling for years. They'd, th-th- there were certain signs or whatever." Um, there were no signs with this one.

So we were completely- Yeah ... thrown off guard and that, that I think was really scary as a kid to realize, oh, you don't know, you don't know- You don't know, right ... anything about anyone. Like you think- Yeah ... you know people, you don't know anything. And, uh The, uh, the s- the story for Driveway, so as I said, it, it affected everybody very differently.

His, uh, one of his best friends, one of my best friends at the time, uh, he had actually called him on the day that he committed [00:28:00] suicide, and he tried to call him. I-- we s- when I think about it in my head, I assume he was calling him from the car that he killed himself in, and that's morbid a little bit, but that's how I always think of it.

Yeah. Uh, because he tried to call him, and he had tried to call his sister, and neither of them answered the phone, uh, that day. For whatever reason, they just couldn't make it, didn't see it, were busy, whatever. And I always find that part really, really distressing because it- Oh ... then what, what happened is for years we all thought, would it have been different- What if?

Yeah ... if somebody had answered? That's a huge weight, yeah. And that's really tough to deal with. And the sort of irony of that, and it also sits with me, is that when that same friend was calling me to give me the news, I was at work at a recording studio that day, and I didn't answer his phone call.

Um, I wasn't actually busy. I could have. I could have answered the call, but I didn't wanna take away from work, so to speak. Right. Uh, so and I was like, "I'll call him later 'cause whatever." And, uh, and then when I called him later, that's what he told [00:29:00] me, and I've, I've, you know, sat with that like, "Oh my God, I also didn't answer this phone call that's prob- was pretty important."

And that- Yeah ... that kind of messed with me too. So every time I got a phone call from my friends for years after that, I had incredible anxiety. Like- Yeah ... I hate, uh, for years I hated using the phone. And I didn't understand in my early 20s that I was dealing with the grief of that and then- Yeah

the anxiety that came with that, because I didn't understand, you know, these mental health, uh, things that we all talk about today. That wasn't really talked about so much back then. Yeah. So Driveway, um, there's a lyric in, in this, in Driveway. It says, "10 years to the day," 'cause I wrote it 10 years to the day that he passed away.

I was sitting there on that, you know, 10 years to the day in the morning, and I just, every, you know, when that date comes up, and it's coming up again in, in about a week or so s- right after Valentine's Day. So every Valentine's Day I think about this. Yeah. That's how I- Oy ... that's how I think about Valentine's Day.

Um, That, that let, I, [00:30:00] for the first time since it happened when I wrote "Driveway," I let myself be completely vulnerable about the situation, and I wrote what came that, that morning. And- Yeah ... and it came out relatively quickly, but I was sobbing profusely, um- Yeah, of course ... 'cause I, I, uh, I had, cried about this previously, but I, like, I think I have, I've always held it in when I'm grieving.

Of, it's always just always been something I've done since I was young. Yeah. Then I just let it out, let it all come out, and that was, you know, very therapeutic in a way. But at the end of it, it was just like, okay, well, now I have this song. There are these lyrics at least about this thing, and that, felt better a little bit.

Um, it just in knowing that, like I was thinking about the fact that this will never leave me. Yeah ... and it's, it's had such a tremendous impact on the way I view everything in my life, the way I view relationships, the way I view a phone [00:31:00] call so many things. And it took me a couple years after writing those lyrics to actually develop the song into what is now on, on the record that it sits on, um, because I was worried that I didn't have the skill set as a musician to translate the s- the lyrics into a production that- That's a big moment.

Yeah ... did justice to the situation- Sure ... um, you know, for him. I was like, "I don't want it to be, I don't want, you know, the ghost of my friend look- looking down at me-" Yeah. No, I get that. Yeah ... being like, "That's what you did? That sucks. That was-" Yeah ... like, "You could've done better." Yeah. I could, I could feel that.

Yeah. So, uh, so yeah, it took a couple years and, and that was part of, and part of that was I was like, "I really need a piano. I really need, I need this, this somber version of this song, um, and be quite, like, dramatic," because it was so dramatic for me. And, uh, yeah, so that was one of the first things I really wrote piano for, and was like, "Oh, okay.

I, I [00:32:00] accomplished the task, uh, that I think I could do." Yeah. And I, I couldn't really put that, any part of this situation to rest in any way until I did that song, which sounds kinda weird. Yeah. No, not at all. Um, but it was like that's what really helped me start to get beyond the situation after- Yeah

so many years. Um, because now I have somewhere to h- to kinda house those feelings. Those feelings. Yeah. And I can still bring it up and bring it out and bring it to other people when I am ready and feel comfortable with, with approaching that conversation again. And, and so, you know, with a song like that, you know, with so much of, you know, weight carried, like, with it just anyway with the words and not even just the pressure that you put understandably on yourself playing that is that, does that present its own challenges, like, all over again?

Or do you, do you feel that- I don't wanna say like completely released it from you, but released enough to like, as we were saying, like be uncomfortable or be comfortable with the [00:33:00] uncomfortable that you can be, you know, comfortable enough with this, this tough moment. Tough is like an understatement, of course.

Yeah. But you know, that you can share it without, you know, losing it completely. Like, I've heard, you know, artists that, you know, have these songs and like they just refuse to play that. It's out in the world. You can hit play if you want to, but asking me to do it, again is just not gonna happen.

Like, and to me is like human, you know, it's not, that's understandable completely that it's, you know, you're asking them to like rehash something that they've already processed in some way. And that could have taken them, you know, like, like, in your case, 10 years- Yeah ... you know, to get that out and you're asking them to do it like immediately, and that's just not gonna happen.

So do you find yourself with that or- I- Or no? Not so much, I think. I think I have- Yeah ... in fairness, I have not played a full band version of, of "Driveway" yet because- Yeah ... I hadn't had a band to do so. But again, it's one of those things just as with the recording it, I wanna make sure when we do play it live that it's, it does justice to- [00:34:00] Sure

to the song and the message. Um, so I very much do intend on playing it live. Yeah. And I, I anticipate at some point it will become a more regular staple, so to speak. Yeah. Um, because I think it's an important conversation to talk about, uh, specifically with youth about suicide- Yeah. Yeah ... and to understand that this is a unfortunate reality that- This is here, yeah

a lot of us deal with, uh, losing people in this type of way. And I, I think it's, it's more important to continue to share the story and the message than it is for me to be like, "That's a little too tough for me to do today." Yeah. Um, I still- Yeah ... cry when I s- sing that song sometimes, uh, often. 'Cause you do, yeah.

Um, it's, uh, it, it does bring forward those emotions by nature of the way the song was written. Uh- Yeah ... but I think that makes it better. Yeah. Jaime, thank you so much for sharing your story. More importantly, thank you for gifting your music to the world.

There's [00:35:00] something about writing a song a decade later. It's not crisis anymore. It's reckoning. Listening back, I kept thinking about how long it can take to say the thing out loud, to stop carrying it alone I think about that missed call, about the small hinges that change everything.

This season has been about the ways music holds what we can't always say in the moment, about fathers, about bending, about knocking, about building, about carrying arrows, and about the songs we finally write when we're ready. Sometimes we can't answer the call when it comes. Sometimes, years later, we answer it in another way, through a chord, through a lyric, through staying

Thank you for joining me on this journey with [00:36:00] Neither Could Dylan. If this conversation stayed with you, carry it into your next walk, your next quiet moment, your next horizon. Music connects us, not just through sound, but through shared experience and the courage to keep evolving.

If you've got something you wanna share about this episode or how music has supported you in your life, you can send me an email at storytellingpods@gmail.com. Until next season, keep breathing, keep listening, and keep coming back to Earth