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We document our journey trying to double our content marketing agency over the next 2 years (by Jan 2026).
We closed zero new clients this month.
No churn though.
So that's positive.
And we were busy because as per
last update, January update, we
had closed three new clients.
With these three new clients and
this hat I'm wearing of helping
train new writers and strategists,
I spend so much time editing our
long form blog post for clients.
2, 000, 3, 000 words, you know?
And it's like close editing, Zoom
calls, like going over what we're doing.
And it's just like, so much
of my day is just like that.
Plus, just scrambling to keep
up with email and all the
other to do's or whatever, and
then the day ends or whatever.
People listening, I'm sure, are gonna have
the same response that like, everyone's
gonna have, is like, Devesh, why don't
you just hire some hire an editor!
Which is something that you and
I have fought about, so we'll
just do it publicly on this.
It is not easy to write,
grow, and convert articles!
Why don't you kick us off this time?
Yeah, so we're gonna do February results.
I can just quickly go through them.
We didn't add any new clients this
month, but on the positive side, we
also didn't really have any churn.
So kind of just a flat
month, but we did have some.
Decent conversations.
That is the most like
positive Benji spin on that.
If I had done that intro, I
would have been like, we closed
zero new clients this month.
Hey, no churn though.
No churn is good.
That's positive.
No churn is good.
And we were busy because as per last
update, January update, we had closed
three new clients and that just, you
know, at an agency of our size and with
our operations, that, that takes some
effort to just get them kicked off and
ramped up, which we did in February.
Go for it.
You want to walk through the
leads that we did get and then
what the status of them are?
Yeah, let's see.
So we have seven leads in February.
Yeah.
Seven.
Is it seven total leads in February?
Seven total leads in February.
I think two of them are cold or no.
Yeah.
Two of them are cold.
Two we have conversations with.
Scheduled.
One of them we talked to and
felt like it wasn't a good fit.
And then we had one really good
conversation that we're still in
talks with and then another one that
we need to schedule a call with.
And then another current client
that came to us and wants to expand.
So that's another opportunity.
Let me recap the numbers, hang on, before,
because you were going one to another and
you and I are looking at a spreadsheet
that no one else is going to be seeing.
of our sort of our leads.
So seven leads in February of those I'm
seeing, Oh, I messed up our spreadsheet.
Two of these are December leads
that just got put up here because
the conversations were continuing.
Um, so, but of the seven, there are, I
think two of them are like an active,
One of them is in an active conversation.
We have right now, three more,
three total active conversations.
The other two are from four, four,
including the existing client.
Yeah.
So for including the existing client,
wanting to expand to a couple of their
other products and those, one of those
are as a February, the other ones are
January and December, like older leads
that already is something to remark on.
Right.
This type of service.
There's a lead time.
Like they're deciding whether to pay 10
AK a month to start this channel content.
I mean, as a channel for them, like
there's a commitment, a February
lead doesn't close instantly.
Sometimes they do.
Um, but usually those people
are like, I've been reading
Grow and Convert for four years.
Like I'm like waiting for this
moment and now we have the budget and
they've kind of closed themselves.
Um, so that's so, so that, and the other
ones, like if we just walk through it
carefully, I'm just going to put my.
Um, cursor here so you
can follow along as well.
So when we say, when, when Benji says
cold, that's someone who like we thought
was somewhat qualified, but they either
like stopped responding before the call
we had with them or after the call.
But I'm going to go through the ones
that we marked as not qualified.
The first one is a coding,
like a development firm.
And that's one that we, we could have
entertained this lead and we have closed
some of those in the past, but we cho
we have chosen not to close any more.
Software development companies.
You want to explain why?
Because you're the one that's most sort
of, you have the strongest opinion on no.
I think on this one, I was like,
Hey Benji, let's talk to them.
And you were like, Nope.
Yeah.
I mean, it's just a challenge.
One, we need someone
technical on our team.
We have limited people that
have that expertise . Two.
It's just the most competitive space.
It's kind of like doing marketing for our
own site where we're competing against.
Tons of other marketers that are going
after the same keywords that we are.
But in the software development
space, you're competing against just.
Ridiculously high authority sites that
have ranked for these keywords forever.
And it's just an uphill battle that
on top of that, a lot of the agencies
really don't have differentiation
when it comes to software development.
So there's really not a lot to write about
from a, like a sales copy perspective, or
at least nothing that's really convincing.
So yeah, we've just found that
they're really not the best leads.
I think I would be open to it if a
software development company came to
us and they truly had a different way
that they built products or something
that was different about their process.
But from what we've seen, just most of
them are just generic software development
companies that have no domain rating.
And so for us to, to take them on, I just
feel like it would be very difficult.
The funny thing is, I think this one, I
could be getting them mixed up precisely
because of what you just said is they
all kind of sound the same, right?
They're all like, we can develop your
mobile app or, you know, software
thing from idea to final, you know,
shipment or whatever, but I think this
one tried to convince us, like the
funny thing is they try to convince
us, they're like, no, no, no, no.
Cause we're like, Hey.
Like, thanks for reaching out.
We're so sorry.
We send them, I think, a very nice email.
We're like, we decided a long time
ago that like, we, we've tried this
before and it software development
space is just uber competitive.
Um, and, and it takes forever to rank.
It's going to be hard to,
to get ROI on our service.
Do you want us to introduce you to
someone else or something like that?
Um, and they're usually like,
no, no, hang on, hang on.
We're differentiated.
And then the things they say
are not differentiated, right?
The we like take into account, whatever.
So.
Question to you, this is a little bit of
an aside, but it could be interesting.
If someone listening to this, either
has a software development agency
service, or they're like a solo or
whatever, or has a client that's a dev
agency, what do you recommend to them?
Do you recommend just give up on SEO?
I still think it's viable.
I think software development companies
that build very specific products, I
think have a, have a somewhat of an
advantage because I think the challenge
is when you're just some generic
software development company, you're, and
you're trying to rank for like, I don't
know, mobile app development service.
It's just like that,
that's extremely difficult.
But if you, if you have like a, specific
vertical that you service or you develop
very specific type of products or there's
questions that people would ask before
they would need to build something.
That, that's kind of where I would focus.
But yeah, the general ones that
kind of take all projects and have
no differentiation and have no
specific verticals that they work
with, those are really difficult.
Okay, that was enough time spent on that,
although I find it kind of interesting.
Okay, the next, um, not qualified
lead was a big bank, I can
say, with like a brand name.
I was like, whoa, when I saw that
in my email, but they were looking
for someone to help start a podcast.
I was like, yeah, no, how
did you even get our name?
Um, and then the next not qualified one
was actually one that we Spent some time
talking to, so it's not qualified, but
it wasn't disqualified out of the gate.
Um, this one, we, they reached
out about content marketing.
We talked to them about that
and paid search, and I think
we just got some vibes.
I put it as not qualified.
Um, just because in our labeling system
of leads, we don't have one where it's
like we DQ them because they seem like
they have red flags, but basically the
client seemed like they had red flags and
was going to be a giant pain in the butt.
And so us too, and one of our employees
who was part of the discussions were like,
yeah, no, we're not dealing with them.
Yeah.
I mean, which is important because
if we, I mean, what we tend to do
from just a business perspective is.
Really that clients from a personality
standpoint and a business standpoint
before we start working with them.
So that even if they have a business that
we think we could do well for, I think
the person that personality issues come
back to bite us because essentially it's
going to make someone on our team unhappy.
And so, and part of the, like the, you
know, we almost every episode after
the churn episode, we've referenced
back to it because that's a huge deal.
Um, as per that episode, but like a non
negligible portion of our churn is us
letting go of the client because they
were a giant pain and we stick, stick
by our team and say like, no, we're not
going to have our team go through it.
It's not worth it.
Um, and so we want to vet that out
at the beginning, but that shows if
that was another, like good lead.
If that person's personality was like
great, whatever that was, that was
going somewhere that could have closed
and it could have been a good lead.
So that's like not.
It's not like marketing's
fault that they happen to just
sort of have some red flags.
So those are the three not qualified.
The cold ones.
One of them just had some weird
vibes from the beginning of being.
You could tell sometimes just
in the email exchange whether a
client is like too cool for school.
Um, he had that vibe and then no
showed on the call and then another
one, uh, didn't respond to it.
Our initial email, that
one was kind of sad.
And then another one, we
had a really good call.
We sent a follow up.
And she just hasn't responded
since the follow up.
I mean, I thought that was
had a good chance of closing.
That's just part of the game And then
after that we had another one that like
kind of passed They said they were talking
to another agency and we just haven't
heard back um from them, so presumably
they went with another option, so like
Now that i'm thinking through this I
think before this call I was like Our
lead situation was tough and you were
convincing me otherwise now that I'm going
through one by one You're you're right
Like this is actually was a decent number
like seven leads a decent fraction of them
over half were pretty well qualified We
also have like leads and conversations
from january and december that are still
ongoing Yeah, we have four there and I
would be surprised if we didn't close
at least one of those So that's why I
don't I don't necessarily think we're
in a horrible spot Obviously, I would
love lead volume to pick up coming into
this next month though Yeah, I mean,
Churn is going to be a big one, right?
Because we said, you know, the whole
premise of this show was double the
agency in two years, so from 20 to 40.
So, if we want to do half of that this
year, that's, you know, adding 10 clients.
We added three in January, which
helps, but I think that 20 is that?
Yeah.
But anyway, we want to get one
each, but then there's churn.
So then is it like two each month
and then are we going to be able
to fix some of our churn issues?
Like there's a lot of unknowns, but, um,
business is always better when you're
consistently closing new customers.
Right.
So let's see.
But yeah, we have some
good conversations going.
Challenges this month.
What have we been dealing with and
what have we been dealing with?
Yeah.
I mean, I can go first.
Yeah.
I was going to say we were discussing
my challenges before this conversation
of, you know, prepping for this episode.
I think we know we're not going to
get into like the total details of
exactly what we're ranking for and other
channels that are bringing in this leads.
You know, as much as folks listening
may want to hear that for obvious
reasons, like we've worked hard to get
certain channel mixes to work like this.
And in my defense, read the rest
of our blog, like we've been pretty
transparent of what we do marketing wise.
Um, but one thing that I think we've
talked about in previous episodes.
I have the memory of a small rat,
so I don't remember, but it's just
LinkedIn posting, like organic.
And I think we talked about just
like our attempts at hiring at
least one person or two people.
Yeah, and in the last episode, I think we
talked about even doing a service around.
Yeah, and so we know that that is
something that tends to work, and I keep
thinking I have good things to write
on LinkedIn, and I just haven't been.
I haven't even been posting
updates for when we release a new
episode, um, and that's something
that it's just like, it's so dumb.
Like, I feel like.
I could read the reason I say I have stuff
is I do some of this like analysis to
help some of our strategists that are like
analytical, like tracking growth graphs.
We just were on a call this morning
where I updated some growth graphs
and we had kind of an interesting
conversation with a long running
good client on like an expanded deal.
Um, and, and, and even that
could be a LinkedIn post.
Right.
Remember that graph?
It was like, it was like low
growth, slow growth, slow growth.
And then in the last few months,
it just like upped and you could
have a LinkedIn post on like,
look, look at what happens on SEO.
If you stick with it, you know, I
should write like, that's a post.
Like I'm writing the post right
now, but it's just like my day.
So back to the challenges
with these three new clients.
And this hat I'm wearing of helping
train new writers and strategists.
I spend so much time editing our long form
blog posts for clients, 2000, 3000 words,
you know, and it's like close editing Zoom
calls, like going over what we're doing.
And it's just like, so much of my
day is just like that, plus, um,
just scrambling to keep up with email
and all the other to dos or whatever
and then the day ends or whatever.
And I, and I'm sure everyone, you
know, people listening, I'm sure,
are gonna have the same response
that like, everyone's gonna have.
It's like, Devesh, why don't you
just hire some, hire an editor!
Which is something that you and
I have fought about, so we'll
just do it publicly on this.
It is not easy to write,
grow, and convert articles!
That's the reason I'm
spending so much time editing.
If it was easy to write, grow and
convert level articles, we would
have a bunch of writers that do it
because there's a million writers
who have applied like not a million.
We have thousands of applicants
on our spreadsheet, right?
There are tons of freelance
writers looking for work.
It is very hard for us to find
some that can write at our level.
So like if we can't find writers that can
write at our level, what is the argument?
There are just these magical editors just
like out in the You know, in the, in the
ether that was waiting that, you know,
the, for, to like edit you to edit Grow
and Convert level articles, you need to
be able to write them and that's not easy.
And that's why I have split that task with
David, where David does the recruiting.
Um, David was on a previous episode
and then I, and he was like, look,
like I need, once they're, once they
pass his test project and they're
kind of good enough to test on a
real thing, they still need coaching.
And we were like, well, a lot of
our existing strategists and all.
Are now thriving, but I used to coach them
like intensely back when we were smaller.
So let's go back to that.
So I feel like that actually is an
important hat for me to be wearing.
You know, the whole thing is like,
if you're an owner of a business.
You should you should do the like
the hard things that no one else
can do and outsource the rest or
delegate the rest This is the hard
thing that no one else can do.
Yes.
I I don't believe no one else can do
it I think I think I don't mean that
literally I know but I just think this
is a huge bottleneck and we have to
solve This at some point other night.
Otherwise, we're never gonna be able
to scale and so if you just flip
that mindset to It can't happen to,
okay, where do I find an editor?
And yeah, they're not going to be
good right from the get go, but what
if you just trained someone to edit?
The same way that you
would train a writer.
Like, someone has to be able to do it.
Like, I've had people in the past
rip my articles to shreds that know
nothing about what I'm talking about.
And I think it's the same, it's the
same thing if we were to find a,
a really good structural editor.
Even if they don't know the subject
matter, they can just know if
something doesn't make sense.
Or just how to poke holes in arguments.
And there has to be people
out there that can do that.
Yeah.
My hypothesis, so that people listening
aren't like, What is Devesh saying, he's
just gonna do this forever, what an idiot.
First of all, I might be an idiot.
You might not be wrong.
Second, My hypothesis is, uh, that
I would, it would be someone that we
already trained internally to be a
writer that it's like, if you're going
to be a good editor for Grow and Convert
pieces, you first need to be a good
writer for Grow and Convert pieces.
So it'd be someone who has
the proclivity just like David
is doing all this recruiting.
Um, I realized the episode with
David was about updating, but aside,
he does all of our like, Recruiting
and training of initial writers.
He just happens to like that.
He was like, no, no, I like it I like to
mentor them and so he wants to do that and
if the problem is Editing kind of sucks
like it's hard and I think basically every
single person on our team is like I don't
want to edit if I don't have to But again,
there's people that do love editing.
Like, that's their whole job.
There's, there's editors.
So we need to go find those people.
I, I think part of the challenge
that we have is that people on
our team wear a lot of hats.
Like, they start as a writer.
Then some people move to strategists.
Then some people move to do editing.
And those are all completely
different skill sets.
No, writing strategists are
very, they have a lot of overlap.
I would not say people on our team
wear a bunch of different hats.
I would say the majority
is writers who then, yeah.
And strategists and strategists
also write themselves.
They just also do the rest of our
process and they sort of self select.
You're right.
Let's zoom in on what you're saying.
I think what you're getting at is.
When they transition from writer
to strategist, they have to
edit someone else's writing if
they want to use other writers.
Someone might, someone can write
themselves, but not be good at
providing feedback, such as we have
very good strategists on our team
that have been with us for years
who have said like, I'm not editing.
I hate it.
Yeah.
I'm one of those people.
Like, I just, I don't know how
to rip someone's article apart.
Like it's just not my skillset.
But again, there are people that
do have that skillset that that's
what they're really good at.
So where, where are those people?
We, we just, we, I think, I think
the problem is we haven't even
attempted to go hire someone.
You're right on that is that I have
shut it down from the beginning.
Cause I'm like, this
is just makes no sense.
That's not going to work.
So what are you saying?
Like we create a job posting,
like looking for an editor,
structural editor or marketing.
Yeah, maybe like we've
never even tried it.
How can we just dismiss that there's.
Not one person out there
that can do what you do.
Well, but then they would have
to be trained to like first
write to grow and convert pieces.
I mean, we're doing that anyways, but
instead of training someone to become
a writer or strategist, why not train
them to take over what you're doing?
Yeah.
So if we, so you're saying
basically, look, I agree with you.
This editor would have to be able to, if
needed, they would have the skill, have
to have the skills to be able to write.
client piece on their own.
Otherwise, like how can you edit?
So you're like, fine, but you
will train them in that the
way you train any other writer.
But if the, if they came in like the
job posting, they read or whatever was
came in with the intention of ultimately
being an editor, then maybe that
brings in a different type of person.
Yeah, it does.
It's cause also it just
help in other ways.
They could mentor writers.
If they were truly good at this,
they're going to help with writer
training as well, because they know
what we need, what we're looking for.
I think it helps solve multiple problems.
And I think just right
now you're the bottleneck.
We're time limited because you
only have so many hours in the day.
And as we grow accounts, this
need becomes even bigger.
More pronounced so yeah back on the
lead thing like I do sometimes and
this could just be like some fantasy
in my head I think like what would
it be if I just posted a really good
LinkedIn post three times a week I know.
I mean, I, I, I don't even
have the time problem.
I just hate LinkedIn so much
that it just like repulses me
to even log into the platform.
Yeah, you do have to kind of like
just draft it and not look at everyone
else's like inane postings on there
that like say the same cliche thing,
but it's like presented in a, in like
a really, Supposedly profound way.
Yeah.
I don't know what's happened because I
feel like when we started the business,
I used to love being on social and just
posting stuff and sharing my learnings.
And I think now being this far into
it, I, I have like a hatred of it.
I don't know why.
What's, I think we've seen
a lot of data on what works.
We've done a lot of this work.
We're like living and breathing it
and we have for years and years.
And so then when we have people just like
sort of doing this random pontificating
with no data to back it up, it's annoying.
Cause you're like, what
have you even tried that?
We've like anyone who's actually done
the work would know that that's false.
Yeah.
I like hate getting into
the arguments on LinkedIn.
It's like, Try to comment on someone.
You're like, yeah, this is incorrect.
And then they want to go back and forth.
I'm just like, I don't even
have the patience for it.
I don't know if I follow this guy,
but there was a guy that showed up
on my feed the other day that was
like, you know, helping businesses
blow up their marketing with AI.
And he was basically, there was this
post that he was like, today in modern
times, you can produce, and it was like.
Original music, writing, this,
that, and the other, at exceptional
quality, all with AI, without humans.
And I was like, no, you cannot!
That's not true!
AI writing is like, people
laugh at it because it's so bad.
Um, they're just, it's done by
like affiliate marketers and people
trying to take shortcuts to write it.
Like, I'm gonna publish 3, 000 blog posts.
Um, I mean, hey, some of it might
work, but that's not what we do.
Okay.
So that's my challenge is like, I
think there's maybe yet another channel
in LinkedIn organic and every time
I say to myself, okay, I'm going to
public, you know, post these posts.
The second thing is like
publishing a good LinkedIn post.
I keep thinking, Oh, it's like 15 minutes
of my day between saying it's not, it
takes a while, like you have to draft it.
Then there's usually some image
or something you need to create.
It's, it's, it's a decent amount of work.
So it takes more time than I think.
Um, yeah, I don't know
anything else on your side.
I mean, I think that's probably the
biggest thing on the marketing side.
The other thing is just
getting our own rankings up.
We've invested in a lot in content over
the last year and there's a lot of things
that are ranking, but still, I, I think
it's, it's been an uphill battle just
because of how competitive our spaces.
So just trying to think of
different ways that we can.
either produce new articles that
rank or just get the existing
content that we've produced up.
So either updating past posts
or building more links to
some of our pieces of content.
Um, that and just ads.
Ads keep working for us.
And so Yeah, I think, I think, I
think what I'm thinking about a
lot is just the balance between
our own SEO content and ads.
I mean, they're, they're working together
and both are driving leads, but you,
you mean how much dollars a month?
Yeah.
Do, do we shift more?
Yeah.
I mean, we've just been spending
a lot more on content than we have
on ads, but ads has been driving
some pretty good leads lately.
And so just thinking, do we shift
some budget away from link building?
Okay.
ads or vice versa.
It's, it's tough because one's
building the longterm game and
one's bringing in short term leads.
So, uh, yeah, I still think there's
value in, in building the long game.
Like there's been one post
that we produced two years ago.
That's just on the cusp of
ranking for on page one.
And it's been an uphill battle.
It's a super, super, super, super
competitive bottom of the funnel keyword.
And so, It's just time.
It's, it's, it's building
links over the last two years.
And when it first started it was in
position like 70 and now it's in 14.
And so like now I, I, I finally
feel like we're making progress.
It's just, yeah, it takes time.
I mean, the flip side of this, as
per my challenge, is like, Imagine
if we were getting on this update and
we were like, we closed three more.
Clients in February.
Yeah, it would be stressful.
What would I do?
But again, I think that's why we need to
solve that issue like now because I just
If we do close five more clients, I don't
I don't get how it's sustainable With with
you doing all the editing and training.
Yeah I mean it's an issue and even
if I were to like Stop this recording
and immediately start working on quote
unquote finding an editor like that.
That's not something that's gonna
happen overnight Yeah, it takes time
Yeah, so we should start that now.
I mean, I maybe if anything this like I
didn't even think we were gonna really
go here In this episode, but it is
probably the biggest issue even more
so than leads because we need to be
able to service the leads And unless we
solve this problem In the near future,
let's say in the three to six months
I don't know how we keep growing.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
I just push myself until I'm really
angry and start yelling at everyone.
Yeah, that's not, that's not sustainable.
But yeah, no churn is good.
And we have a bunch of
active conversations.
And there are just months like this
where, like, you got good leads, you
know, various little things, delayed
deals or makes them not qualified or
you don't really want to work with them.
And then you just You know, you
have a bunch of things in, in
the pipeline and you're waiting.
That's normal.
But I, but again, I think bigger, bigger
than that, even then, yeah, each of these
monthly recaps is about growing, but
I think more important to the business
right now is solving this problem.
Like, I think that that's
going to unlock more growth.
Yeah.
Instead of servicing new accounts,
we need to solve this problem.
ASAP.
To be able to service the new accounts.
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