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Come join a groundbreaking new podcast that promises to change the way you think, the way you live, and the way you manage your future. Grab a cup of coffee, a 6mg Zyn, some noise-canceling headphones, and get lost in the world of the Fiscal Firehouse. With your co-host Jon Beattie and Louie Barela, the Fiscal Firehouse is your guide to financial freedom. Tailored to union firefighters, we will discuss problems, solutions, and benefits that are unique to our profession. Change your finances, change your life at the Fiscal Firehouse. Brought to you by Local 1309.
Welcome to the Fiscal Firehouse,
a podcast dedicated to promoting
financial literacy to firefighters.
I'm your co-host, John Beatty, executive
board member of Local 1309, a lieutenant,
and also a certified financial planner.
With me, I have the other co-host of the
fiscal firehouse, Louis Barella, executive
Board member of Local 1309 ambulance
driver, and want to be financial expert.
Together, John and I hope to bring
clarity to the world of personal finance,
specifically relating to firefighters.
Firefighting is a
difficult job making sound.
Financial decisions shouldn't be.
Lombardi Intro: in today's
episode of the Fiscal Firehouse.
John and Louie, welcome a special guest.
Fire Chief Don Lombardi of West Metro
Fire Rescue Chief Lombardi will share his
wisdom and experiences gained throughout
his 33 years in the fire service,
including the last 14, as the fire
Chief Chief Lombardi opens up about his
experiences between labor and management,
the importance of having a financial
literate workforce, how firehouse culture
can influence financial behaviors, and
lastly, what he's looking forward to the
most regarding his upcoming retirement.
Without further ado.
Let's kick it over to local 1309 studios
and the recording of the fiscal firehouse.
Jon: welcome back to another
episode of the Fiscal Firehouse.
I believe this is episode number 10.
I'm your co-host John Beatty.
with me as always.
I have, really the fan favorite,
the one that I was always
really carry in the show.
Louis Barilla lb.
How's it going today, brother?
Good
Louie: Good man.
Really good.
Really excited for today.
I think the podcast has been
doing really good things.
We've been getting a lot of growth.
We're hearing from people even
outside of the state of Colorado that
they're listening to the podcast.
So we're just really excited
that we found something that we
feel like firefighters are into.
There's a thirst for
that kind of knowledge.
The financial knowledge.
So the podcast is going great.
And now we have a really
special guest on, so
Don: it's gonna
Louie: even better.
Jon: That's right.
That's a soft little intro.
A little teaser as they
say in the business.
Right.
We got a little teaser.
So we normally do a recording at Local
1309 studios, which is at our old union
station, but we've gone mobile, we've made
our way up to the second floor, the corner
office at 4 33 South Allison Parkway.
So those of you from West Metro definitely
know what office we're chatting about.
But we're in the office of the Fire
Chief of West Metro Chief Don Lombardi.
Chief, good to see you.
Thanks for agreeing to
come on the podcast.
I know it took a long time to get
the schedulers, you know, all fixed.
You got a busy schedule, sir.
So thank you for making the time for us.
Don: No, I appreciate it.
it means a lot that, that we
can get together and chat.
This is super, super important,
so I appreciate that.
Jon: Yeah, absolutely.
So we would be remiss if we didn't give
you a little bit of a bio, a little
cv for those of you, for those of the
listeners unfamiliar with Chief Lombardi.
And you're probably looking at me
like, I can't believe you're gonna
do this to me, but we have to.
It's always appropriate to
introduce, a special guest.
You gotta give them their cv.
Louie: do it.
Don: say, I can't believe
you're doing this to me.
Jon: you can exactly say you
didn't know this was a trap, this
Don: Yeah, exactly.
Like,
Jon: oh, we had these questions
prepared and now you guys
are just bait and switching.
Yeah, we'll have some
further conversations
Don: so it'll be one sentence long
Jon: That's, that is not true.
And I will fact check this.
So, I definitely have some good resources
that I used to procure this cv, but I also
fact checked it with chat GPT and I don't
know if you guys have played around with
AI very much, but the, what this thing
came out with was very impressive, like
almost line for line, what I had lined
out, minus a couple things here and there.
So you are definitely well known as far
as whatever large language models they
use to get this in sources information.
So if you're, someone that's considering
going into research, a PhD student,
Mike Minnie, I would say maybe you
should probably rethink this because
this, I mean this software is gonna
Louie: start.
And it was all about you chief, a lot
Don: of, well, it was my $5 donation
to Google, so I appreciate that.
Jon: got your own Wiki
Don: paper.
Well, exactly, yeah.
Jon: uploaded that.
So no, chief Lombardi has
served the citizens of west
Metro honorably for 33 years.
He became our fire chief, the
chief of West Metro in 2011.
under his tenure.
West Metro has received
accreditation along with an ISO
Class one, which is pretty special.
There's only 117 departments in
the whole world that have done
that, so that's a huge achievement.
He helped introduce, and facilitate
Camp Ember, which helps young
women gain awareness and exposure
to a career in the fire service.
this is something that's really near
and dear to a lot of our hearts.
known pun intended,
help draft legislation.
To form the heart circulatory cancer
and behavioral health trust here in
the state of Colorado, you've held a
multitude of leadership positions as the
president of the Metro Denver Fire Chiefs
Association, also the president of the
Colorado State Fire Chiefs Association,
and then the big chiefs, the president
of the Metro Fire Chiefs Association.
So really not only just at the state
level, but all the way up to the
national level, you've held those
leadership positions and because of
that, you've received certain leadership
awards, including the, fire Chief of
the Year, presented by the Division
of Fire Prevention and Control.
You're also awarded the Russell L.
Sanders Lifetime Achievement Award
by the Metro Fire Chiefs Association.
and then recently you were acknowledged
at the state for your service, to
the assistance here of West Metro.
And the one thing that I'm most proud
of, out of all of that stuff, which is
quite a list, and this is something that
chat GPT did not find out, and that is
your, knowledge and awareness and really
advocacy for the labor management.
Relationship.
That is the one thing it
didn't pick up on at all.
And that's something that we are
very proud of here at West Metro and
especially as a union sponsored podcast.
Local 1309 is just our relationship
that we've had through the year.
So that is quite the, that's quite the CV
Louie: is that it, you're already gonna
retire and that's all you've done.
Don: all I've done.
Yeah.
Jon: is just a
Don: I do have one correction.
Russell E.
Sanders.
Jon: Oh, I put Russell L.
Oh my
Don: That's okay.
No, thank you for that's, I have to
acknowledge that because he's probably
one of the top two or three people in the
fire service, so that's a great honor.
But Russell E.
Sanders,
Jon: Okay.
No, thank you for
Don: And then the reason you
needed, didn't find anything
in chat, GGTP about GPTG.
Jon: Yep.
GPT.
Don: Yeah.
about our labor management
is we try to keep that quiet,
Jon: Well, the secret's
Don: Yeah.
Mostly it started with, Mike Veneer and he
wanted to, you know, not let anybody know
that he gets along with the fire chief,
Jon: It would ruin his street cred.
Don: Yeah, exactly.
Jon: and start beating
Don: up
Jon: on management.
Don: No, I appreciate
Louie: Thanks.
And since we just talked about that
union side of things, I know we have some
financially minded questions for you since
this is a financially, oriented podcast,
but, just because of the relationship
that you've built, with the union, you
know, you and the union have accomplished
a lot of good things together.
and I know you've learned a lot
during that partnership, so.
I kind of want to know, what do you
think has been your key to success with
that relationship and how would you
help guide your successor to maintain
that kind of a good relationship?
Don: So, you know, my relationship with
the union has gone back, when I first
started, I mean before that, but really
when I started as the administrative
chief here at West Metro and, Mike Ner
and I, who is the president, then we
worked really hard from a collaborative,
standpoint on, how we do things.
and our fire chief at the time,
wasn't as involved, organizationally
as we thought he should be.
and he came from an outside agency.
And so Mike and I worked a lot to keep
things at that level, at my level from a
disciplinary standpoint, from budgetary
type things, all of those things.
So we developed, a relationship
then, and Mike was starting out as
the union president, then as well.
So we both were kind of growing up
together and we relied on each other.
greatly for a lot of things.
And you know, where people talk about
labor management, you know, they typically
see, you know, people butting heads or
really being at odds with each other.
And not to say that Mike and I weren't,
'cause we've yelled at each other a lot.
These walls could talk.
yeah.
And, but we always had a mutual respect
for each other that we would do that
behind closed doors and then typically we
would come out and be on the same page.
a lot had to do with, and I'm
thinking of one time when I was at
the National Fire Academy when I was
going through my executive fire officer
and we had a problem with one of our
members from a paramedic standpoint.
And I, so I'm back there for two weeks
and I'm in class and we get breaks
every single break for two weeks.
I'm on the phone with Mike going
back and forth, and finally it was
on, I think the second to last day.
I said something to Mike and Michael.
That, that's what I'm saying.
And we both went, we both stopped
and said, you mean we've been saying
the exact same thing for two weeks?
We just were yelling
at each other that yes.
So my point is, so we developed this
relationship, but I try to treat
it as, and I say this with great
respect, it's like being married
that we work really hard at this
relationship and it's very fragile.
And so, like in most marriages,
although I know people get divorced
and those things, but we don't
get to walk away from each other.
We have to continue to do what we
do and we can't just walk away.
And some days, you know, the union
president might give 120% and I, as a
fire chief might give 10% just 'cause
of circumstances and vice versa.
it's a relationship that we work at a lot.
And then when Mike Veneer, moved on
to be the Ninth District vp, or it's
the state, president and then the
Ninth District VP and Mike Mulkey.
Mike's a much different personality than
Mike Veneer, and yet we have a really
deep connection and we work really hard
to, again, to try to do what's best for,
the organization do best, what's for,
best for our firefighters, and ultimately
what's best for, our, community.
And so when we have that, when we have
that understanding, and collaboration
like that, it's not hard to win.
Yeah.
It's not hard to be
successful with all that.
Louie: Yeah, well, you've accomplished
a lot of great things with them,
so it's been awesome to come into
that as a younger firefighter,
younger in my career anyway.
I'm not really young, but younger in my
Don: career.
Louie: and just seeing the things that you
guys have done together over the time that
you've been here, I think it's awesome.
I think it's really cool, and it's been
a great thing to be a firefighter at
such a great department that has a good
relationship between labor and management.
so I just wanna say kudos to that,
Don: I appreciate that.
And, you know, one of the things that
I've been accused of, and both from a
good and bad standpoint, you know, they
go, I've been accused of, you're in bed
with the fire, with the, firefighters.
You're in bed with the union.
It's like, yeah, I am.
But for all the right reasons.
And I ask people, you know, especially
when you look at, from a fairness
standpoint, when we look at do
we treat our, membership fairly
and with respect, you know, as
accountability goes, things like that.
I can always say yes.
And has anybody ever, been.
has our relationship taken away
from anything that this organization
does or, does it take away from
any of the values people have?
And the answer is, at least
from my perspective, is no.
Right.
So, so when I say I'm in bed, I'm in
bed with them for all the right reasons.
Yeah.
and that makes a little bit,
I think, better sense as we go
along with this of how we work.
Louie: Well, John and I will go to
these conferences and we'll hear
these horror stories from these union
leaders about their relationship with
their management, with their chief.
And I mean, it just sounds so, abrasive.
And they'll be like, well,
that's just how it is.
Like, that's just how all
departments are, right?
Like everyone has to just struggle
with that, and we just kind of
look at each other like, no,
it doesn't have to be that way.
It shouldn't be that way.
And we can aspire to work closely and have
the same goals and the same, you know,
even the same ways to reach those goals.
That's a good thing.
And so we have a good
culture of that here.
and I, you know, I hope it never changes.
Like it's been so conducive to
our relationship and the things
that we've accomplished here
that I, I hope it never changes.
Don: I don't think it will.
I think that people understand
what great looks like.
And when I say great, what it looks,
you know, that's an, that's a tribute
to the entire membership here at West
Metro and how we do stuff and what they
allow us to do and, what they want us
to do, what their expectations are.
And so when you look from that
perspective, I don't think
that we'll fall backwards.
I think that people will, at the very
minimum, when I say demand, that's not
the right way to say it, but they'll
expect that from the new chief coming in.
And I think the new chief will give
that because he sees, you know,
how that's, been a such an asset.
And, what you guys have experienced
with, at your, labor conferences.
I've experienced at my fire
chief conferences when I was the
metro president, I would talk
about labor management and I had.
Chiefs come to me from large fire
departments and go, how do you do this?
How do you do that?
and I talk about, building relationships
and collaboration and trusting each
other and empowering people to do things.
And they go, I can never do that.
I just can't.
and so it's a different perspective.
I've finally realized it's just a
different perspective they have.
But you're right, it's, I will
say this from my perspective, it
is way hard being the fire chief.
It is a very hard position
within our organization.
if I had to battle the union on top of
being the fire chief It would be that
much harder and it would be so much we
couldn't, if you look at the successes at
West Metros because of our relationship
that allows us to have those successes,
I, we couldn't have it any other way.
And if you don't mind, I want to
go back just a little bit on how
meaningful that relationship is.
When we, back in 2012, when we lost
out that election, to raise our
mill levy, we had to cut service.
And my first call wasn't
to any of our chiefs.
Nor to the board of directors, my
first call was Tom to, Mike Verne.
as the union president, said, Mike,
we've got a lot of work to do.
And I said, as yucky as this gonna
be, you and I have to pop our
heads up above each other and look
at each other and understand that
we're on the same page with stuff.
And so the union jumped in at
that leadership role to help
shape of what we are today.
So that's very important to
me that they took that on and
that, again, is a norm here.
And I've had a lot of chiefs
go, I want your relationship.
And I go, okay, take about try.
Yeah, exactly.
Louie: You gotta work
Don: that, and you
can't have it overnight.
this is working really hard for
as long as I've been in the fire
chief and then as the admin chief.
So since 2004, you know,
you look at all that.
So,
Jon: And as a history, as a
person that loves history, our
history wasn't always that way.
Back in the day, there was very
adversarial relationships where we
had to use the union attorney on speed
dial for all of these disciplinary
cases and all this other stuff.
So it's like we have learned as
well, and it wasn't always this way.
It took some right people at the
right time with the right mindset to
start to create a culture that would
help, you know, facilitate better
labor management relationships.
And we, I think that's really
important that we continue to pass
down those history lessons as we
continue to look towards the future.
But I think that's a great
lesson for all of us to
Don: take.
And I think from our board of
directors perspective, they take
a cue off of that as well too.
And I think that they're very
collaborative and wanna work with you.
And when you look at some other
agencies around us where they're either
their city council or their board of
directors go, now that you guys are
hands off, I don't want to talk to you.
there's no, nothing good comes from that.
Yeah, nothing good at
all comes from that, so.
Louie: Well, that's really cool.
I think it's awesome.
And one thing that we like to brag
about is that you and your chiefs are
all dues paying members of local 1309.
Like you guys still do that
as a way of being like, Hey,
we're all in this together.
We're still firefighters at heart,
and so we're gonna, continue to
support and contribute to that.
'cause that's important to us.
And that's not something that is
universal or even common among
Jon: definitely not common and
Louie: So that's pretty cool.
But
Don: But it's not hard.
And so I look at that and I know
that for a fact, but it just
throws me that's not the norm.
Yeah.
That we are the exception to that.
And it's, and it means a lot to still
have, my, you know, union card and
that I'm still part of the union.
and that I'm from Labor's perspective
is I'm still a valued member of that
union, even though I'm a fire chief.
And it, and so when you look from
those perspectives, that's not.
That's not how it is.
It's an us and them thing.
And that's never been in my
wheelhouse and really, you know, is
to educate our chiefs along the way.
Through my years as a fire chief, I've
had to pull some of those chiefs along.
as well because they thought that's how
it should be, that we're us and them.
And it's not.
it's we do this together and that's
why we accomplish all the things we do.
Cool.
Jon: Yeah, that's great.
So we're gonna, pivot a little bit
and start to focus on really the theme
that Louis and I when we're sitting and
thinking about how we're gonna have this
conversation with you, chief Lombardi was,
really marrying that concept of, financial
independence and financial literacy,
with like overall firehouse culture
and how sometimes that can be super
beneficial and how that can also be a
huge detractor as well, just depending on
where you sit on that side of the fence.
So one of the questions we have is,
how would you describe the overall
financial challenges that firefighters
face throughout their careers?
Obviously you've been in the fire
service for a long time, you have
a lineage, you have kids that
are in the fire service as well.
So this is probably meaningful
for you, well beyond just your
tenure here as the fire chief, and
then your service to West Metro.
But what do you think about, what are
some of those challenges that they face?
Don: Well, you know, I think that, you
know, from when I first started out, to
where we are today has been, we're leaps
and bounds above what we feed both from a
pay perspective and a benefit perspective.
And I remember when I first got on,
I was a school teacher and my pay as
a tenured school teacher, so I'm up
four years on almost was to the dollar
of what I was getting as a brand
new firefighter here at West Metro.
And so that was interesting to me.
but again, it was like
$19,000 is what we made.
And during that time, you know, it
just, we thought we had good pay,
we thought we had good benefits, and
yet we were still, my wife and I.
You know, she stayed at home with her
kids, was still like poor as church mice.
So we got, or I got to see
a lot of different things
from a different perspective.
'cause we had kids and such.
and what I found is that, and me included,
'cause my first captain that I had my
first shift, he sat me down and got
out the I the ICMA form for our 4 57
and said, okay, you're putting $25 in.
I said, I can't afford that.
He goes, I don't care.
He goes, you're putting $25
into ICMA starting today.
And that was my, that and good for him
Louie: I'm gonna start doing that
to all the new guys that come
through, just forcing him to do it.
I like that idea.
Don: yeah, he, no, he did
and he was a scary guy.
he was my captain of
training, captain Donal.
And he was
Jon: infamous for exactly that,
Don: For exactly what you're saying.
and, but yeah, he, so he's my
training captain scared us all there.
And then I always.
I always made fun and said, oh,
my luck is I'm gonna have, is my
captain when I go to the station.
And I did.
But he sat me down and he said he wasn't,
there was no option and he wasn't.
When I say nice about it,
he said, you are doing this.
And I knew he cared because he, he told
me why after you know that this is you
may not be able to afford it today,
but you won't, you're not gonna miss
this money if it's gonna come out now.
And so that's what the
kind of the thinking was.
So today, now I have a pretty good chunk
in my ICMA because of him and always doing
that, just never deviating from that.
But what I think from a, from
our firefighters now, what their
perspective, and that's why I am
loving what you guys are doing is
because you give different perspective.
They don't understand, retirement.
and so I'm getting ready to retire.
I now know, oh my gosh, all those
decisions I made way back when
have a great effect on me today.
But at the time, I'm going, my
gosh, every and everybody talks
about it, they go, oh, you know,
you gotta plan for retirement now.
And, you know, our jobs in this and
we look at retirement, blah, blah.
We do, but we don't.
and so, so I think our folks
are uneducated about, really
what's available to them.
And then in turn, by putting dollars away
today or figuring out what you can do with
your dollars today helps you long term.
The other thing too is I see this a
lot and I don't know how to get around.
It is, and I see it in, in, Athletes
and professional athletes, they all of
a sudden, like here at West Metro, when
you become a firefighter here at West
Metro, you're making pretty good money
and you've got really super good benefits.
and so people think that, oh, I'm
gonna go out and buy this really
cool truck, or I'm gonna buy
Louie: truck baby.
Yeah.
The 1309, the Ford F 1309.
Yeah.
Jon: And
Don: that, or get, jet skis or
get a big huge cool trailer,
which I think is all awesome.
I still look at some of the toys
that some of our folks have.
I go, I can't afford that today.
How are you affording that?
Yeah.
And so I want, I want people to think,
you know, what's practical today and
then long term of what they can sure.
Afford.
and so I go back to what they
expect me as the fire chief
from a budgeting perspective.
You all want me to provide long-term.
Fiscal sustainability that we can
manage what we're doing today.
That I can still do that five years from
now, 10 years from now, 15 years from now.
I ask, I go back to ask the
same thing for our firefighters.
'cause I see it a lot is think
about your fiscal or your financial
stability today and how are you
gonna maintain that down the road?
Because things happen, you know, illness
happens, kids happen, life happens.
All these things happen where
you go, oh shoot, now I've got to
pay more for something on that.
And so always try to, when I look at
our firefighters again, I want them to
enjoy the dollars that they're making.
But some of the stuff I look and go,
I don't know how you afford that.
Louie: yeah.
Well, so speaking of that, in all
your experience, I'm sure you've seen
this and we were kind of even talking
about, before the recording started, we
were kind of talking about some of the
stresses that come with that financial
insecurity or financial irresponsibility.
But have you observed situations where
a lack of financial knowledge negatively
impacted a firefighter's performance
on the job or wellbeing or just mental,
whatever, alertness, mental health
while on the job as a firefighter?
Don: Yeah.
and that's a great question
and the answer is yes.
And so when you look at, I think that
finances and how we do finances and our
ability to, pay for things or have some
stability with our dollars, I think
it leads to a lot of different things.
Meaning I've seen people that have been
stressed out and have probably not done
a great job of managing their money and
they get into a jam in turn that causes.
marital problems, and then, or family
type problems, which in turn can
cause, mental health problems, can
cause anxiety, can cause other things.
And then in turn, they feel like
they may not have an out because
they've spiraled so much in and
haven't taken care of their dollars.
Sometimes it can lead, I've seen
to dependency problems either
with substance abuse or with
alcohol, those types of things.
So I think that when we look at a,
and again, just take the job itself
of what we do and a lot, all the
stressors of just our job that has, that
compounds that, I think that having.
financial difficulties or financial
angst, also contributes greatly to that.
And I had a chance to talk, with the
general president, ed Kelly about this,
that we, he thinks the same thing.
He goes, if we could come out with a way
to educate our firefighters on finances
and give them some financial footing,
because we do it with, here at West
Metro, we do it from, fire training.
We do, EMS training.
And you go through paramedic school
and you go through our academies.
You do all these things and we're very
much, on how we train you to do stuff.
And if we had an avenue, and that's why
I'm so happy, what you guys do, an avenue
to educate people on, finances and.
Fiscal responsibility.
not to say that you can't have fun,
and not to say you can't use your
dollars for fun things, but if you've
got everything else taken care of,
then you, then it's okay to do those.
But I think that would take away,
if we had some better responsibility
with our dollars, that would take
away one of those, problems of
creating other things that, stressors
that we have from firefighters.
and so I think that's a big
thing that we need to do and
we need to educate better on.
and this is how, and I
love our firefighters.
I do, but sometimes they,
I, they cause me pause.
And the reason is this'll
give a good example of that.
one of our, when we went from our
money purchase plan and we got
into our defined benefit plan, and.
We had to switch things over and
they said FPPA, the, our defined
benefit said if you don't switch
over, we're just gonna put your money,
purchase dollars into this account.
It was like a money
Jon: Marney market account.
Yeah.
The safest account there is there.
You're not gonna earn any money,
but it's not gonna grow at all.
Don: Yeah.
So one of our firefighters did just
that, didn't think he had to do
anything, didn't listen, none of that.
All of his dollars went
into the money market.
He comes up and he goes,
okay, I'm ready to retire.
HR looked at his stuff and said, not
only can you not retire, you have to
stay and put this much money away and
do all these things to get your years
so that you have a good defined benefit.
And I looked at him and I
said, what do you think?
He goes, I just didn't know.
And I went.
This is your life.
Yeah.
This is, your, we all talk about
it, make sure you know, can't you do
all these things to protect yourself
so that you have a good retirement.
And then he had nothing.
He had to stay for three more years, put
money away, buy a bunch of years, all of
these things to get to a point where he
was, and I don't think it was even close
to whole of what he should have been.
Had he put it away or
had he directed Yeah.
Directed it the correct way.
And so that was a big eyeopener to
me of going, we need to educate our
people better on what's available
to them and then how to use it.
and people have different, you guys know
this, different temperatures of what they
want to do from an investment standpoint.
Some are really aggressive risk.
Yeah.
Really aggressive.
And some people are going,
nah, I want to be a T toller.
Which is totally cool, but
just have it in something where
you know that it's going to.
And then also the other stuff that we
have available either through our RHS,
I think has been super good for us.
Louie: And that's the retirement health
savings account for those of you that have
ignored that or don't realize what that
Don: Thank you.
Jon: very little.
Yeah.
Don: Yeah.
And so benefit, well, but I'm
telling you now is, when we had
retiree health and the district was
paying, we were paying half, of that.
And so when people didn't have
to worry, they were paying
the half of their premiums.
And now when we reverted over to
retirement health savings, RHS, we
also now have to think, okay, how much
is too much in there in your account?
Because now I'm finding out, when I
talked to my financial advisors, they
said, how much do you have in your RHS?
And I told them, and they went.
Oh my gosh.
Louie: how are you gonna use
Don: Yeah.
Yeah.
And the good thing about from West Metro's
perspective is the board of directors, and
this goes back to relationships, had the
board of directors, you know, so the RHS
dollars, if I die, don't go to my family,
technically they go back to the district.
So the district board of directors
has said they will take that money
and give it to the survivors.
Louie: Write a check out
Don: Yeah.
And so when I explained that to 'em,
they went, okay, that makes great sense,
because not many fire districts do that.
You know, they just say, look, we
put that money in and helped you out.
Now we're gonna get it back if you pass.
And so, so when you look at all of
those avenues that we have, You know,
for, like I talked about 4 57 and some
other things, we have opportunities
to put yourself in a good spot, but
you have to be active about that.
You have to understand what they're,
and it's not rocket surgery.
It really isn't.
Just if you know what, if you know
what all of the options that we
have and just take somewhat of an
active role in that, I think you'll
probably be way ahead of the game.
Yeah, and
Jon: something that I think is
back to the culture aspect of it.
And you talked about Captain Donal,
Leah, more or less, I don't wanna
say coercing you, but be like, I
know this is in your best interest.
You gotta do that.
And that's something that we have
a pretty strong culture here.
I think last time I checked with
hr, it's like 90, 95% of our, I.
Our members contribute to the 4 57
plan, which is an amazing uptake ratio.
There's a department that's close
by a similar, profile as far as our
size, and there's those with like 60%.
So a lot of that just
Louie: and they consider that good.
They consider
Don: that good and they consider
Jon: that not bad.
Pretty good.
So a lot of this is just the
culture that you maintain at the
firehouse and the conversations
that you have at the kitchen table.
And that's where we all have a certain
level of accountability, personal
accountability, but also responsibility
for who you're working with.
And as new folks come on, or even people
that have been here for a while, just
checking in, and Louie and I always
talk with the recruits about this,
it's a sacred profession in that.
The, the knowledge and the
information that you're gonna share.
The personal, you know, the intimacy
that you will have is unlike many
other industries out there, a lot
of people can play or kinda like the
military and some of these other close
knit, tight unit teamwork type things.
So that's just something that we all
have a responsibility to check in and
make sure people are doing fine on that.
And when things start going off the rails
is, there's plenty of resources out there
in which we can help, course correct.
But it does.
100% starts with education.
So one of the things that the the
IAFF is looking at, or they have
implemented, and this took place back
in when we had the Ottawa convention,
it's initiative called the 15 by five.
So basically they want every IAFF member.
By the time that they have are in
their fifth year service to have
15% of their salary saved in their
deferred comp plan, their 4 57 plan.
And you do it incrementally.
So you start with five and then
it's just 2% every year thereafter.
Hopefully raises and everything
else are kind of gonna take that
raise and just put it over there.
if our members were able to put
away 15% of their salary every
year, ever since five years, we
would all be in a much better shape.
Louie: we are doing great.
Jon: Yep.
So it's just little things like
that, it's little nudges here and
then incrementally just keeping up.
It really moves the needle on that.
So I'm happy that you got to have
that conversation with GP Kelly and,
probably secretary, treasurer Frank
Lima, and having those, 'cause it's
important not just at our level at
West Metro, but statewide and the
nationally as well, to have those
and carry on those conversations.
So
Don: when you look from those perspectives
too, is what people don't realize is
that when you start earlier in your
career, when you start earlier and start
putting, you know, X amount of dollars
away for those types of things, then.
by the time you retire my age, you
look back and you go, oh my gosh.
You know how much you
have that helps you out.
and so I think that it's went from
a cultural perspective, you're
right, that we need to educate our
folks and put our arms around them
and show them all of these things.
I think that's incumbent upon all of us
to be able to do, you know, if we talk
about that we're in this, brother and
sisterhood of taking care of each other,
and here at West Metro, we really pride
ourselves on having this family that
I think it's incumbent upon all of us.
And like you guys do that we put
our arms around somebody and say,
look, you need to be looking at
these types of things, and not only
for your future, but even for today.
You go and, because we all talk
about, I'm gonna go buy this,
and what do you think about that?
this boat and all the, I think that, just
having that candid conversation of saying,
are you sure you're able to afford that?
Or if you get in over your head and
you've, you're, you've leveraged
yourself to the hilt on loans or
whatever it might be, does that.
Does that, is that feasible?
Does that make sense to you?
Yeah.
long term.
And the other thing too is, through the,
through a lot of years, we built a lot
of good relationships, especially, I sit
on the board right now for the Foothills
Credit Union and, they've been worked
really well with us, but they give a
lot of information to our firefighters.
They come out, at the
academy and give information.
So there's different portals that we
have that, it doesn't have to be just
through ICMA or it doesn't have to be,
through some of the other stuff we have,
since we've built these relationships,
now our firefighters can go and their
families can go and save to Foothills
and get a better rate on loans or get,
better savings, CDs and things like that,
that I think gives us different options.
Jon: Yeah, I wanted to give, a huge
plug and a huge shout out to, our
HR department here at West Metro.
they really do go above and beyond
with what is required, quite frankly,
and one of the recent things they
did, and if there's members or.
People listening in the audience outside
of West Metro, potentially something
you should bring to your organization.
Your department is making sure that
beneficiaries are updated yearly.
because we know life happens,
divorces, all sorts of things.
And we've unfortunately had several
members here that did not have
their beneficiaries aligned with
their wishes or their latest wishes.
And, the funds ended up going to someone
that they didn't want it to go to.
And it's not required from the depart
from the department standpoint, it's
not some kind of law they're following.
Once you get that form, they don't
have to continue to update that.
This is something that our organization
values, our HR department and it's a
heavy lift for them to update that.
Every year we get members that call in
and they're trying to figure the login
account and they're just constantly
trying to keep our members up to date.
And when you look at, I don't know, even
you as the fire chief, if you realized
all the forms that are maintained with
all of our benefits, like it, it blew
me away when I looked at all that stuff.
I was like, and I.
Try to keep up to date on all that stuff.
And there was even a couple, lapses
in some of my stuff that, could have
put my family in a bad position.
Don: and you talk about that, and
that's a huge statement because
we had, we have had examples of
that, and from a, the district's
perspective, I can't do anything.
HR came down to me and said, Hey,
can we, this is going to, an ex-wife
that they haven't been married for
20 years and he's got another family
and, kids and all this other stuff.
And I said, we have no choice by law,
Jon: by law, by contract,
Don: contract.
We have to do it that way.
That's
Louie: That's heartbreaking.
Don: you make a great point.
Is we, it's, again, it's not rocket.
It's not hard.
Time it takes diligence, takes
responsibility on all of our parts to
make sure that those are up to snuff.
'cause if not us, no one else can.
Like you said, HR can't change
beneficiaries, they can't
do these types of things.
We have to be proactive
with all of those things.
And in, and if I was to give advice
to anybody, that would be one of my
main things is to say, be proactive on
what your benefits are, who's getting
benefits if something happens to you?
Those types of things.
And keep up on those.
Louie: Yeah.
Don: That's cool.
Louie: we kind of want to now shift
a little bit and talk about, maybe,
drawing on your extensive knowledge and
Jon: that's a really nice way
of saying you've been here for a
Don: Yeah, I'm old.
Louie: you're, you're old and you got some
Jon: Salt and pepper.
Don: Yeah.
Louie: but what, you know, if you
could kind of go back 33 years ago,
you clearly contributed to a 4 57 as
you were strong armed by your officer.
But what would you have done
differently, or what do you look back
now from a financial perspective?
What do you wish that you would've
done to maybe change the course
of your financial future or your
current financial situation?
Not that you're in a
rough financial situation.
No.
But knowing what you know now,
Don: so interestingly, we have two
kids and so, we were just, we were in
a position where I, we couldn't put
a lot of dollars away for college.
And so, I'm proud to say that we put our
two kids one through the University of
Denver and then one through Colorado State
University, which is hard for me to say
as a buffalo, but, without any loans.
But that was, that's awesome.
Well, it is, but it isn't, we.
We, refinanced our house several
times, to pay for all that.
Now, I can say that our houses,
our mortgages paid off and we
did it be earlier than 30 years.
So it all worked out, but it was a
stressful time, and my wife's parents
helped out and my parents helped out
a little bit on those, but not a ton.
so I guess going back, I, although
I put money into a 4 57, I wish that
I had done it better incrementally,
meaning as I got raises, and again,
we were, so, I understand when people
say, look, I'm in the moment, we
were truly as poor as church mice.
again, my wife stayed home,
to take care of the kids.
We had a little small business
out of the house, where we did
first aid and CPR training.
And so every either promotion that I got
or every raise that we got, we gobbled up.
And you know, people that lived
paycheck to paycheck, we did.
and so, one of the things that,
and I, it has zero to do with me.
It has everything to do with my wife,
Vicki, is before we got married,
we were getting right about, we're
getting married and she goes,
okay, this is how it's gonna be.
She goes, you're gonna have your account.
I'm gonna have my account and
then we'll have a joint account.
I said, no honey, come on.
let's have one account.
She goes, absolutely not.
And so we had, we started off that way
and she goes, if we'll put money into a
joint account that to cover all of our
expenses together and stuff like that.
Yeah.
And then she goes, whatever's left over,
you gotta keep yours and I'll keep mine.
'cause we were both employed at the
time and she goes, if you want to go out
and, you know, play golf or drink beer
with your friends, I won't say anything.
And if I want to go out and do
whatever I do, you don't get a.
You know, bitch about that.
Can I say bitch in
Jon: yeah,
Don: yeah.
Okay.
you don't get a bitch then.
Yeah.
And so, and so it, it morphed a
little bit after that when she
stayed at home with the kids and
she couldn't contribute as much.
So then I got an allowance and stuff.
but nonetheless is, I still have
my account, she has her account
and we have a joint account and
it has saved our marriage Sure.
Because we don't argue about money ever.
Nice.
And so I tell that to people a lot
is, consider those things because I
have a lot of friends here and they
either try to hide money from, you
know, of saying, you know, I can't
Jon: it's a little slush
Don: Yeah.
Exactly.
That or other, and there's
none of that with us.
and or they say.
I went out and, we went to Vegas and
gambled a little bit more than we thought.
Had a little bit too much fun.
And so my wife now gets that much
to go out and do whatever she wants.
We've never had those problems.
so I would suggest that
to a lot of people.
Like I said, it was wonderful for us.
in fact, I remember when I was
a captain of Station 12, and Dr.
Phil had a show specifically on that same
thing we're doing, and I grabbed Kevin
Warren, one of my engineer at the time
and said, you need to be, because you
get married, you need to be doing that.
Yeah.
And I think he did.
but anyway, so back to what
I wish I, I wish that I had,
enough, I'll just say guts to.
It when I got raises or when I got
promoted is to put more money away.
I've got a pretty good, you know,
the 4 57 now is okay, but you think
over, 30 years it would be a lot more
Louie: all that compound interest.
yeah,
Don: so I would suggest as people
look at that as is to take, put money
in there and do the pre-tax stuff so
that you look at that and say, okay,
I, I don't, I'm not getting that.
Yeah.
And I'm not, I don't,
write a check every time.
I think it's easier that you
get that taken out and then
you don't worry about that.
I, and
Louie: I, man, that's, that,
those are great pieces of advice.
two things I'll say about that, John,
this is really good for us because we're
always looking for, recommendations.
We're always asking the membership like,
what do you guys want us to talk about?
What do you guys have questions on?
And I know one thing that I don't
think it's on our list of like future
episodes, but I think, how couples handle
finances I think is super important.
And that's a great idea.
And I know, Caitlyn and I have some
pretty advanced budgeting software
that we do, but we do the same.
Yeah, nerds, but we do the same thing.
She has her own account and I have
mine, we call her discretionary funds.
And those are things that we can
spend that money on whatever we want,
whether it's go golfing, drinking
with my buddies or whatever it is.
And she could do the same thing.
She buys fabric and sewing machines
or whatever, and we don't have
to clear it with each other.
Hey, I thought that money was for our
family vacation, or I thought that
money was for the mortgage payment.
it's all set up so that she
knows what is in her account.
her budget line item is for
her to do whatever she wants.
I think we can have a really good
episode where we talk about that.
That's a fantastic idea.
Don: Yeah.
I like that a lot.
and I agree.
and if you, with your
experiences, and it's interesting.
Vic and I have different,
looks on purchasing.
She's very much a remorseful buyer.
We'll go out and buy a couch
and the next she goes, do you
think we really can afford this?
I said, yes, we can.
And I'm the opposite way.
I always say, we'll figure
out how to right pay for this.
And we always have.
And the thing is, and again, now
that we're doing, from fire chief's,
wages are doing okay for us.
But I remember again, when things
weren't, were difficult for us
when we had the kids at home.
we were famous for going out and
buying, something that had, no payments,
no interest for X amount of time.
We put the money away knowing that
in 36 months or whatever it was,
we'd have to pay those things.
And we, we did that every time,
which in turn helped our credit.
So then we could get better, loans
or things like this if we needed.
But, But it was interesting.
We were very famous for
that, but she is very much a,
Jon: she's kinda like a spend thrift.
Like she just doesn't,
Louie: and you're not, you don't care.
You're just like, whatever,
man, that money's gone.
Yeah,
Don: is.
I, we'll go out.
we just bought couches the other day
and I said, we need to get a new couch.
And she said, she goes, we've got
some pretty big expenses coming up.
We've gotta wait.
And I'm going, no, we don't.
And so fix it.
I know.
Yeah.
and then, so then when we went and bought
it, and we, it was the, it was like the
memorial day or whatever it was, deal.
And so she goes, at least
we got this much off.
and I was just like, my gosh,
Jon: looking for a deal.
so one of the courses that I took, that
was actually my favorite course, was a
course called Money and Relationships.
I mean it was more or less,
how to be a therapist.
'cause there's actually a subspecialty
within financial planning that
specifically focuses on financial therapy.
And that's, you've already alluded
to it, where a lot of the sources of
conflict come from in a relationship.
it's not about the money,
like the money is the symptom.
There's something more deep seated
about where the resentment or
wherever that is coming from.
But until you actually talk about
this stuff openly is where you can
really start to make some headway.
And what I've.
Heard from both of you.
It seems like although your styles
are different, at the end of the
day, you guys are operating as
one and you guys are aligned.
And even though people have different
feelings about what that spending or lack
of spending may be, you guys are on the
same train heading down the same tracks.
And the minute that those things
start to bifurcate is when
there can be some friction.
So I think there's a lot of useful
tools out there, but I think that
would be a fun episode to have.
and that's something that, you know,
just around the firehouse table is
always a source of comedy for one,
but also friction and real friction.
And if we can help alleviate some of
that friction and give people some
strategies and some tools to help
mitigate that, all for the better.
So I like that idea.
Louie: I just want our listeners to
also take note is, one thing that
John and I always preach to new
firefighters, to people at the station,
to whoever we talk to, is about putting
money away in your 4 57 or your IRA.
and you just heard the fire
chief say the same thing.
if I had to do over again,
I would put more money, I'd
make the sacrifice earlier.
I try to put more money in that 4 57.
And that is something that we always
say is, look, you think that someday
it's gonna be easier and it will be in
some ways, but there's always gonna be
demands for your money, whether it's
kids or college or, HVAC systems or new
trucks or boats or toys or whatever it
is, you're gonna have demands for your
money that are always going to tempt
you away from contributing to your 4 57.
But I've heard people at every
single level of this organization,
from firefighters who retired as a
firefighter to now the chief about to
retire saying, one, one thing that I
could have done differently or that
I would've considered doing earlier
is putting more money in my 4 57.
So I just want that to be a specific
thing that we highlight in this episode
is every level of the organization,
people that have retired, have said,
man, that 4 57 put money into it.
Keep socking it away.
Even if it's uncomfortable,
do it and you won't regret it.
No one has ever come to
me, John, I know about you.
No one's ever come to me.
What about you chief?
And said, you know what, man?
I really wish that I don't, I didn't
have as much money as I do in my 4 57.
I really wish that I would not have
saved as much as I did in retirement.
Man, what was I thinking?
I've never heard that.
Don: Nope.
Jon: No.
If they, anything they're complaining
about being in a higher tax bracket, then
Don: That's mostly it.
I,
Jon: air to the IRS and everyone else
about the unfortunateness of that.
Don: yeah,
Jon: that's, and the one other thing
I really picked up on it, and it
just hit me there, is where you were
describing kind of your challenges at
the beginning, especially, you know.
33 years ago.
I know a lot of our newer members feel
like, some of the dreams of the American
dreams have vanished because of high cost
of living and all these other things.
But it seems like in every generation
it's always been that way where there
has been a certain amount of sacrifice
and scraping together a certain amount
money in order to achieve certain
life goals or whatever that is.
So whether that was 30 years ago
or five years ago, it seems like
there's always that underpinning of
theme that most people, especially
at the very beginning, you're young,
you just got outta college or your
education, you're starting a family.
There's just like a lot of those needs are
trying to go all sorts of other places.
So it's not lost on the three
people around the microphones here,
about what a challenge that is.
But it's been that way for a lot of
folks in a lot of different generations
and not just here in Colorado housing
is more expensive, but also our
compensation is higher than other places.
So if you level the playing field, a lot
of that, It's, there has been things that
have changed, but there's also things
that, the themes are very similar, but
I'm just curious, chief does that worry
you at all about some of the, just some
of the at least perceptions of a high
cost of living area like Colorado and,
a recruitment aspect and continuing
to get, attract the most talented
people here to this organization,
does that ever sit in the back of your
mind about being a limiting factor?
That people are just gonna feel
like, just even the perception of
me not even being able to afford a
home, like why would I wanna live in
a place that I can't achieve that?
Is that something that you think about?
Don: It's not in the back of my mind.
It's in the front of mind.
Because when you think about that,
like you said, from a recruiting
perspective, we've done a lot of
things to take away barriers, to get
people to apply here at West Metro.
And so one of the things that I can't get
away from is what housing is, what the
cost of living is, those types of things.
And one thing that we've articulated to
our board of directors, and really from
the union perspective in collaboration,
is that we want to have the best
firefighters here, the best trained.
And to do that, it costs dollars.
we have to retain really good people,
otherwise, they would go to other places.
or now when you look at all the
stuff, and rightly so, we talk about
the risks of being a firefighter
from, our cardiac problems to cancer
problems, to mental health problems.
And people going, why in the
heck would I wanna do that?
So I now recently been competing
now with the private sector
as well, on getting people.
I've had people, some minorities
say to me, why would I.
Do all of that when I can work over here,
have less stress and make pretty close
to the same amount of dollars and stuff.
So we have to look at it from a
different perspective of the service
and why you want to do these things.
But again, if we don't, if we're
not attractive enough from a, from a
dollar perspective and from a benefit
perspective, but then also then you
look at the intrinsic things, what
Mike Benny's been doing from a sleep
perspective on is there a better
schedule that we could be on or a
better time start that we could be on?
the bottom line is this,
we have to protect our
community, that's our business.
Yeah.
And so we have to have people
here 24 hours, seven days a week
to go on calls all the time.
Yeah.
But are there different ways that
we can meet some of those needs
that might help our workforce?
Meaning is there an ability to have a
surge, engine or a surge medic unit or a
surge, whatever it is to help alleviate
some of our busyness and do that on
a different schedule where typically
we're on a 24 hour schedule and for
us being on the 48 96 turns into a 56
hour work week, are we able to look
at a surge where we say, okay, you're
gonna work this shift of, and just to
throw things out a 10 hour shift and
you work three and a half, days or four
days for this to get to that 40 hours.
Is that more beneficial for
you from a family perspective,
from a life perspective?
All of those things where
people go, they value.
Me as a, as an employee here, as a worker
here, they understand the difficulties
of everything I want to be with them
and as opposed to another place.
So we have to look at
those types of things.
And if we were looking at, just
as something, when I say as
simple, 'cause it's not simple,
a shift schedule, time change.
Where we started 7:00 AM
do you know why we started?
Seven?
Am you two?
Jon: always done
Don: Yeah.
Just 'cause I remember
that's what it always was.
Started 7:00 AM And so through the
fabulous research that Mike Benny's
done, we know that our best time is
probably to gain the best amount of sleep.
Both coming to work and being at work
is probably a 10:00 AM to a two-ish pm.
time start.
Okay?
and so we get, we gain almost two hours
of sleep for our firefighters, but then
I have to then look from that and say,
okay, how does that's great if that
was the only pure thing that we had
to do, but then I have to look, okay,
how does that integrate with training?
How does that integrate
with building inspections?
How does that integrate with everybody
else around us on stuff, community events,
blah, blah, blah, all of those things.
And so when you look from that perspective
is how then can we, from a leadership,
can we fit that in to make that right?
And then in turn, where I may not be able
to because of revenue sources and because
we live off taxes here, where people might
say, I don't wanna pay you as much in
taxes anymore, and they limit us on taxes.
How do I make it that we get more people
and we get highly skilled people, highly
committed people with a big heart that
says, I want to be part of West Metro.
How do I do that?
And if it's something as simple as.
Man, they start at 11:00 AM
That'd be great for my home life.
That'd be great for, me working.
Yeah.
All of those things, when you look from
those perspectives, how can we do that?
So, so when we look and retain, it's also,
dollars is a driver, don't get me wrong.
Yeah.
Benefits are a driver.
But those other things, now I think
are as important, if not more important
to a lot of our newer workforce today.
And again, going back to, if we're
able to do those types of things and
that value that we show from a, just
being human, probably goes a long way.
and then the other thing, I meant to
talk about this a little bit earlier too.
The other thing too is we have to
remember that our firefighters have, a
certain amount of life as a firefighter,
meaning the demands of the job.
And the stressors of the job limit us.
we don't see, you know, somebody
that's, gonna be here till they're
65, a retirement age, or 70 or some,
where you look out and you see that
accountant that's been out there and
he's 74 years old and still thriving.
Not to say that we can't, and we
don't, but that's not very typical.
We have a shelf life here as firefighters
because of the demands of the job.
And so that's why it's more important
that we put dollars away and we work
on those things because our time.
Getting those dollars is shortened
and people need to realize that.
'cause we have this mindset
of, of retirement, well, I'm
gonna be real old when I retire.
Well, no you're not.
Yeah.
and then when you look from
that perspective of life after.
being a firefighter is insurance
and all those other things you're
gonna have to be paying for.
So that's why it's important
that you capitalize.
I get the truck is really cool.
I really do.
And I'm not harboring on trucks.
But also too, as remembers
you've got a finite time.
Jon: And
Don: we talk about life happens, we've
had people that have had injuries that
have ended their career, medical issues,
that have ended their career early.
And while we have a benefit
to help out with that, it's.
It's not unbelievably great.
So we have to protect ourselves and
do it early enough and put those
things away because again, we only
have a finite amount of time here to
be able to accumulate those dollars.
And that's one thing I try to
explain to our board of directors.
And one thing I try to explain to our
civilian support staff, because, they're
on a different, system than we are from
a benefits and things where I can keep
our folks that, do our EMS billing.
I can keep them till they're 70.
I rarely can keep a firefighter, and
you guys all know this, that they're,
we have people that are retiring,
in their fifties and early sixties.
Rarely do we have short of,
Gary Armstrong, where they're
gonna be here till they're, 68.
Yeah.
Jon: Yeah.
Don: types of thing that,
Jon: that career longevity is, I think,
an often overlooked point of view.
and you just don't think about it
when you're in your young twenties.
Don: you
Louie: an office job and you have a
bad back or bad knees, that's okay.
You're, you can still do your job.
You can still go to meetings and sit in
a chair, but you can't drag someone out
of a fire or, do all the other demands.
So, you're right.
that's a good point to
Don: And then you look from our physical
fitness perspective, because it is a.
physically demanding job that we put all
the ERs through for our firefighters.
It doesn't matter if you're
22 or 62, you still have to
Jon: the standard is the same.
Don: the standards the same, so
your body gets beat up over that.
So I, I guess another thing is if I,
you say it's often overlooked, I think
it is the most overlooked thing is that
is longevity and our shortness of time.
We have to accumulate our wealth, if
you will, from a retirement standpoint.
I want everybody to retire here
and I want them to call me from
The Bahamas with a ma tie in their
hand and ask how things are going.
I want everybody to do
that's as a firefighter.
but we have to be smart about
those things and remember that
we have that compressed time.
Louie: It's cool to
hear you say that chief.
'cause that's really, that's the whole
reason why John and I are partners doing
this podcast and teaching the recruits
and stuff, is because we realize that
we have that passion and we want people
to get outta here when they want to get
outta here, when they feel like it's time.
We don't wanna see people that
have to work because they haven't
saved enough or that they're
trying to fight through injuries.
'cause they're getting older and they
don't have anything in their 4 57.
So the whole reason we're doing
this is for exactly what you said.
We have a short amount of time we
wanna educate people and get them
on that right track so that they
can get outta here when they want.
We've joked about this before, but John
almost named this podcast 55 and out.
Like, let's get you outta here
at 55 if you want to, because
we want you to get outta here
when you want to get outta here.
So it's cool to hear you say that
because that's our whole goal.
that's literally why John and I are doing
this podcast and doing this whole thing.
So it's cool to see that you
are in agreement with that.
You're in alignment with that.
I think that's really cool.
Don: and to educate.
I have to educate our public on that.
I have to educate our
board of directors on that.
'cause they don't think through that.
Correct.
They don't think that way.
being able to do those things and when
they finally see that and they realize
that, they go, oh, you are right.
That it is a limited amount of time.
Yeah.
Jon: Yeah.
So Chief Lombardi is what
I'm hearing is he's comparing
us to, professional athletes
Louie: right.
We got a shortened earning
Jon: our career, timeline there.
Time horizon is shortened because,
and that's just the nature of
the physicality of the job.
Don: But no signing
Jon: But no signing bonus.
No.
Are we gonna get, for an
next deal negotiation?
Some NIL money?
Can we get a little NIL money over here
Don: for the fiscal firehouse.
as buff.
I can say this.
you may have fallen as far as sha Sanders.
Louie: Oh, ouch.
Ouch.
Brutal.
Well, hey, let's shift gears one more
time and ask some fun questions now.
Yes.
Because we've, you've given us some
good advice and things to think about
from a financial perspective, but now
we know that you are about to ride into
that sunset, which congratulations.
Super exciting.
and let's just assume that the couch
behind the couches is not gonna
Jon: You're not gonna have to extend
Louie: not gonna have to pull your papers.
Let's assume you actually retire.
Can you tell us what kind of activities
or hobbies or passions that you are going
to pursue now that you're gonna have a
few more hours of free time, every week?
Don: So, my wife has said, when I
told her, retirement, you know, we're,
it's, we're gearing towards that.
She looked at me as we got
closer and she says, you know,
that's a lot of together time.
Jon: lot of together
Don: time.
Yeah.
So she's.
She's, worried that I'm gonna watch.
'cause I watching Andy Griffith.
Jon: you love the old school TV shows.
Yeah,
Louie: I've never heard of that.
What is that?
Don: Wow.
Louie: I'm just kidding.
I know.
It's a black and white
Jon: It's
Don: black
Jon: white
Don: thing.
Louie: Mayberry,
Don: right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
she thinks I'm gonna watch
that all day, every day.
So I said I may watch that one
day all day, but not every day.
I think there's gonna be some
opportunities where if someone called up
and said, Hey, would you come out and from
a leadership perspective talk about this?
Or, do something like that.
I would do those things.
I don't think I'm gonna run out and like.
Ask people, Hey, would,
do you want me to do this?
Do you want me?
Not that I can be content being retired.
I really can't.
People said, you got
too much stuff going on.
You're, you've gotta go 60
miles an hour at the time.
I go, nah, I don't think so.
I
Jon: you were getting ready to, endorse
your candidacy for some type of,
political, I was like, this is great.
We
Louie: Oh, breaking news.
Breaking news.
Jon: Yep.
Yep.
New state senator coming your way.
Don: one bit.
I like playing golf and then,
Vicky and I wanna travel a
little bit, but then we have any
Jon: places you guys
Don: Well, we're gonna, we
are gonna go to, in March,
we're gonna go to, Costa Rica.
Louie: Oh, nice.
Don: you guys been
Louie: I've always wanted to go.
Never
Jon: going in a month.
Don: Where are you going to?
Jon: right outside of Tamarindo.
So on the Pacific side,
Don: yeah, I have no idea.
my daughter and her husband went there
for, their honeymoon to Los Catalinas.
I don't know where it's at.
Okay.
But there's this over the top.
Resort there.
And so I'm gonna take
Vicki to go over the top.
So this goes back to us
being, porous church mice.
we didn't take a ton of
vacations every year.
like my friend across the
Jon: oh, you're shooting at me.
I mean, come
Louie: He's not talking about me buddy.
I don't go anywhere.
Jon: all those union negotiated benefits.
All right.
I mean,
Don: Yeah.
And so, yeah, mine revolve around
conferences or something like that.
But anyway, so, so we're gonna, I'm gonna
take my wife on a trip to Costa Rica, but,
we like Vegas a lot too, so, we'll she'll
do that and dabble in probably, gamble all
of my retirement away, all my ICMA stuff
or my 4 57, but no, so we'll do something
like that and play a little bit of golf.
If I get for near to get me to go to,
Ravenna, that would always be good.
But, and then we have
our little grandkids.
Oh, yeah.
So, Avery's 10 months
and, Nico's six weeks old.
All of a sudden being a grandparent,
you found a new love in your life.
It's pretty cool.
Everyone
Jon: talked to says it's always
better the second time around.
just from the way that you view at life
things, like all the things that you were
so in it at the beginning and you're just
worried about not messing up or you're
just worried about all these small things.
You kind of miss, like the
little things that really matter.
And the second time you get to
appreciate all those little things
that much more because for one,
it's gonna be okay, but now you've
got this parenting skill already.
Like, oh, it's not that bad.
This is gonna be
Don: okay.
Yeah, it will be okay
Jon: get to spoil 'em and all these other
Louie: my mom is a
completely different person.
She used to be like, I don't
care if you want this for dinner,
this is what you're eating.
Or you go to bed hungry.
And then she'll, I see her how
she interacts with my children
and she's like, oh, that's okay.
I'll, yeah, I'll eat, I'll.
Take the, you know, this sandwich away and
make you a brand new one with this on it.
Or I'll change this around for you.
It's okay.
You don't have to eat that.
And I'm like, who are you?
Like, that's not how you
Don: Oh, it raise
Jon: Yeah, it's you get the opportunity
to maybe improve what you would've
done before, or you just look at
things through a different lens and
if this is the littlest thing that's
gonna make this person happy, then by
Don: all means.
Oh yeah.
Trust me.
I, they both have me
around their little finger.
they've got their papa around
a little, their little fingers.
But yeah, it's, they are,
they can do no wrong.
And we've already had, even at 10
months and six weeks, we've already had
the chat that I'll take care of 'em.
Don't worry.
Jon: That'll
Louie: Oh yeah.
Nice.
Don: Nice.
Jon: And I hope your kids appreciate
just how much of a blessing that
is to have immediate family nearby
to help step in and whatever life
brings at you, it's an amazing gift.
we've had some of that
flexibility to some degree.
but it is an amazing gift.
I know there's a lot of people that are
envious of that position to be in there.
And I'm really happy that you get
the opportunity to spend some time
on, quite frankly, really matters.
And you get to, make up.
'cause you've been, you've missed
a lot of things, being in this
job for one as firefighters and
holidays and all the other things,
and especially at the beginning,
you don't have a ton of time off.
And then obviously as you've moved up,
to the fire chief, like the level of
responsibility and you've taken it to
a whole nother level, is always being
on call, answering that phone twenty
four seven, all that other stuff.
I know you talked about a little
bit, but are you worried at all.
Not that your identity is tied up as
being the fire chief, but are you worried
about just, I have to imagine there
has to be a certain amount of reset
time where you are not constantly going
to be looking at your phone or going
through something just because that has
been such a large part of your license,
especially for the last 14 years.
not that you're gonna feel irrelevant,
but just like that constant of always
being on, or do you feel like you've
got some pretty good outlets and
you're just ready for that transition?
Don: When I say a thought about
this a lot, I don't think about,
you know, how many days I have left.
Yeah.
'cause I'd be a mess.
and so I don't think from that
perspective, but what I do think about
is that so a lot of that goes about, it
goes back to, the organization in essence
needing me, that if I go, it's gonna
fall apart and all this other stuff.
and so I've really thought about this
a lot is, I couldn't be, I couldn't
be more proud of who West Metro is,
what they are, what we've all become.
And I say that because we've worked
really well together for so many
years to build what we have today.
And somebody said, as we were looking
for the new fire chief, they go, God,
I, we need to find another Don Lombardi.
And I said, please, no, I.
Absolutely not.
We need to find someone that understands
all the things we went through.
So if you think of when I became the fire
chief that, we had the two suicides and,
Mike Miller's death that, was sudden.
That kind of came really quick.
And then, and then right after that,
the financial difficulties that the
district had and the reorganization
we did from that, and then we
merged up and did all these things.
And so I want someone to understand all
of the things that we went through to
get to this point of greatness that we
are today, and then build upon that.
And so that's where, from my perspective,
I don't, I'm not worried about that.
I think that we, the organization
is in a unbelievably great spot
when you look at our culture here.
Can we get better?
The answer is yes.
I mean, we all, that's what we all, we
always look for continuous improvement.
But if you look at it.
I think, I really do think
that we are a family here.
And interestingly enough, I got an
article the other day from somebody
that's a high level in the fire service
and the article was about how family
is a bad, thing for the fire service.
Jon: don't wanna analogize it like that.
Like somehow that's not
Don: correct, that it was bad.
Like, so if you think of a, if you've got
a brother that's got a drinking problem
that we, that as a family member, we try
to, we, try to coddle them and don't take
care of them and try to, condone what
they do and, and not do the tough love
stuff or from, from other perspectives
of not facing up to problems we have.
And I.
And so I fired, it was a group email,
and I fired back and I said, I absolutely
disagree with this because here at
West Metro we do, I, and this is me
speaking, I think that we do believe
that we are a family, truly a family
that where we do take care of each
other, but in the right way, if we see
somebody struggling or if we see somebody
needs help or someone's not meeting
the expectations that we have, that we
help them along to either get better
or meet or exceed those expectations.
I think that we may have some
instances, but rarely do they
fall through the cracks here.
Yeah.
And that we, that people know
that we can grab you and say,
Louis, I see you're struggling.
Can I help you out?
Or.
if they see something that's good's
happening, that we acknowledge
that and we praise that and that
we celebrate those types of things.
So I think for us, from a family
perspective is such, is that's really a
hallmark of who we are here at West Metro.
So when I tell people, the people go,
oh, are you really sad about leaving?
I'm, yeah, sad 'cause I'll
miss people, but not sad.
I'm so proud of what this place
is and all of the work that we've
all done to get to this point.
and I'm thrilled and
I'll call you all from.
the Caribbean beach with the, my tie
in my hand and say how proud I am of
Jon: Los Catalinas.
Here we are.
Yeah.
Don: years from now and stuff.
No, just to tell, because I think that
there's the trajectory that we're on,
but all the, that you guys all demand
from the organization and what you demand
from leadership here and then you are
a part of leadership here to understand
what those responsibilities are, I think
is gonna put us in such a good spot.
So for me is, people go,
are you sad about this?
I go, no, I'm really not.
And I, and people go,
well, can you disassociate?
I think I can.
We'll see when it happens.
I don't think I'm gonna look at Pulse
point every single minute or run
over to my computer to pull up CAD
to see what's happening on that a,
that abandoned building fire at at
the service station that we've been
20 times, those types of things.
And so, so I don't, I think we'll be good.
Louie: Yeah.
I, and I think we all
can disagree with that.
in terms of that email, this is a family,
and I think a lot of companies will
use that as like a generic tagline.
It's like, oh, we're like family here.
But I mean, the difference in the
fire service and with our fire
department is that we are a family.
We live together.
we cook together, we
do everything together.
We know each other.
really well.
We know about our struggles,
our financial situation.
I'll, just a personal example of that.
I like, there's a guy that I
work with now at Station three.
His name is TJ Rashi, and he,
Don: yeah, shout out to
Louie: but he and I, we went
to the academy together.
I know his wife and his three girls,
he knows my wife and my three sons.
we just know each other really
well and we are like family.
And I think that's important for our
families to know that because if he's
ever in a bad situation, which in our job,
we sometimes we go into bad situations
with each other, and his family needs
to know that I will do everything that I
can to make sure that he comes home safe
and that he will do everything to make
sure I get to go home safe to my family.
And that's the kind of family you want.
That's the kind of work family you want
when you are going there that, hey, I
don't know if he's gonna go into bad
situation today, but I know that he's got
guys that love him, that care about him
and that will do everything that they can.
It's the same thing with Reed.
Norwood, our captain, he was the same way.
Like he knows our families and he knows
that he's gonna get his home to them.
I, you gotta have that If you
don't have that culture, I wouldn't
wanna work in that kind of a.
Fire
Jon: And there's a certain level
of dysfunction in every family.
Right.
Don: No,
Jon: the part
Louie: put the fun, we put the fun in
Don: that's
Jon: what makes it true.
I mean, we have some dysfunction as
well, and that is part of that family
environment that through thick and thin
at the end of the, at the end of the day,
it's really measuring what your heart's
about and what your true feelings are.
and advocating for people and
supporting them and respecting them
and getting them across whatever
proverbial finish line that may be.
But, yeah, to say that,
that is not a good analogy.
Don: I think there'd be a
lot of people that would,
Jon: that would,
Don: yeah.
It just, it, and I, and
I tell people this a lot.
I said, I say, as a family, we
do have some funny uncles and we
do have some quirky aunts, but
we all love each other 'cause we
all will take care of each other.
And when you look at that, I try to
explain to, people outside of our
organization, I said, just like you said,
we work together, we sleep together.
I'm sorry, we,
Jon: He's like, can you edit that
Don: out?
Yes.
We, we lived together at
Louie: we lived together.
Yeah.
Don: Live together.
and then for some odd
reason, we all play together.
And so we're together a lot.
And that's why that family
thing is very important.
I did it with the, with the chiefs here.
To get them back in a place
where they understood each other.
We did that.
Simon Sinek start with Why,
and we did it organizationally.
Simon Sinek, start with
Why Do you remember that?
And so very clearly, one of the things,
the, in the, and if you have, if
again, to the podcast world, if you
get a chance to look at the, Ted Talk,
Simon Sinek start with why is to watch
that and answer questions in there.
But one of the things they
ask is, what drives you?
What gets you up in the morning?
we brought everybody together
from, we had what, 40 some odd
people in each group and did Yeah.
And did this together.
And I, we put up all their answers.
And so what got people up in the morning?
the main thing was their family at home.
What was oddly close in numbers.
within one or two of each group was
their, west Metro family and their crew.
what that said to me was that, and it
was interesting 'cause people would
say, I was at station three on a
shift and we were as close could be.
And then I got promoted, I moved
over to, station four on C shift.
And you know what, we were just as close.
So what that told me was that as a mature
organization we were very much closely
connected and that's allowed us to do
a lot of our workplace respect, and to.
To understand that and to cultivate
our workplace respect, which in
turn makes us that much closer.
Because if people feel like this is
their place, west Metro is my place.
I belong there.
This is who I am, this is what I believe
in, and that they feel safe here to do
all those things, then in turn, that
makes that family even more tight.
And then in turn, we can provide
better service to our citizens
because we trust each other.
We get along with each
other, we know each other.
we, anticipate each other.
All of those things gives us a
better ability to serve our community
while still being tight here.
it's a funny circle.
Jon: we're gonna wrap up here, but
I think it's, we wanna give you the
opportunity, chief Lombardi, last word.
So we're, you're imparting 33 years
of wisdom in the fire service and
really a subject matter expert when it
comes to kind of all things chiefly.
but is there anyone that you want to
acknowledge that has helped you per
either personally or professionally
along your 33 years as a firefighter
and getting ready for retirement?
I'm sure the list is long, but I'm
sure there's probably a few people that
you would say, without their support
this would not have been possible.
Boy, I hope I get when I say this.
I have to think, obviously, building a
base was, you know, when was I growing up?
My parents, built a base.
and my parents and my dad
especially, supported us loudly
of being an Italian family.
we would, I would, every sporting
event that I had, my dad was there
and it was the loudest and people
would go, does that embarrass you?
Go, no, I feel like someone's there
supporting me, and maybe that's why
I feel like we're supported here.
But, as we go along, obviously my
family, my wife has been super,
super supportive of what I've done.
I couldn't be the fire chief without her.
and, but you couldn't be a lieutenant
here, and you couldn't be a
firefighter here to do all this
stuff without, your family support
to allow you to do what you do.
Louie: Amen.
Of that.
Don: You know?
and Vicky's been, when I say
times, yesterday was Mother's Day.
I had to get up in the middle of
Mother's Day and go take a call for
something that was going on within
the organization just because it
needed, and she doesn't mind that.
And my kids growing up, understood
that too, that I may have to go in the
middle of the night to a second alarm
fire or that I couldn't go to a school
thing because of what's going on here.
They understood the importance of that.
So having that support have
allowed me to do those things.
Made it easier to be the fire
chief here at West Metro.
And then, when you look at, people
that have influenced me along the
way, I will say this, I think it,
the people that have influenced
me the greatest are members here.
because, I saw, I mean, and not that when.
When we got on, when I got
hired here at Lakewood Bancroft.
But you know, we were going through
the merger at the time and they were
thinking of splitting up and, there
wasn't too much of an identity.
And as we, as I grew up within this
organization and saw the leadership
that we had, and you look at, labor
leaders like we had, that, that
really professed collaboration.
And so when you look at somebody like
a Greg Strauss Heim, that was union
president from Bancroft that really
said, we need to do more togetherness
as opposed to punching each other.
we saw that, that worked.
And then I look as we grew up,
people that, helped me create a path
or, Mike Verne and Scott Rogers,
and, all of those folks really.
help develop a lot what
we do here at West Metro.
And then I'd be re remiss to say, looking
at somebody like Gary Armstrong, so full
disclosure, who's my brother-in-law,
had he not called me up and said, I know
you always wanted to be a firefighter.
we're looking to hire.
And I was a school teacher teaching
kindergarten through second grade PE
that had he not called up and said,
Hey, do you want to come over and put
a lot of faith in me to say, I want
you to be part of my organization.
I'll never be able to repay him
for that of him doing that with me.
And we all know, if you don't
know Gary Armstrong, look him up.
But here in the, yeah, here in
West Metro, you look at somebody
that's got great humility, but it's
got so much confidence in what he
does and the respect that he has.
he's always been really a guiding
light for me as we go along.
But I go back to the
membership in general, that.
Really, I've learned so much
of how to be a leader because
of the membership that we have.
I talk about this when I promote folks,
I talk, we talk about stewardship and
I know there's organizations around us.
and I get to see around the
country that have these people
that, that go above and beyond.
I get calls and emails.
I got an email that said from this
lady that said, I saw that you were
over at my elderly neighbor's house.
She said, before I could yell
at my husband to go shovel
snow to get you guys in.
You guys had already done it.
or a lady you picked up my dad.
He went to the grocery store.
He lives by himself.
You picked him up 'cause he had
a seizure and he knocked his head
and she said, I would've never
known you were there, had he.
Told me that, that you guys were there.
She said you put away his groceries
and you cleaned up the mess.
at Station one, which is in our busiest
part of our district, they went on
a guy, they see a lot, And they, his
only mode of transportation was a bike.
And he would go to work using this bike
while he got in an auto bike accident
and it mangled up his bike station.
One crew, realized that 'cause
they knew him, they transported to
the hospital, the engine went over
to Walmart and bought him a bike.
They pulled all their
money, bought a bike.
I don't stand up here and thanks
for coming mobile to my office in
this really cool office with all
these windows and pound my chest
and say, you guys have to be nice.
You all do that.
And it's not, like I said,
there's other organizations
that have people that do that.
We do that.
Across the board and that
shows what's in your heart.
That's who you are.
and we could easily go on these calls,
a medical call, transport hard stop, go
back to the station, and I wanna say,
do training and, look up protocols and
do all these things and play pickleball.
Yeah.
Jon: we got some cards to play.
Let's be honest.
dish has gotta be done.
Louie: It's gotta do it.
Jon: we got some cards
Don: play, which by the, which, by the
way, I did really well at Station 10
the other day on Kings in the Corner.
Yeah.
Did great.
Shout out to Kings in the Corner.
we do this all the time.
I hear people that put up lights, 'cause
somebody fell while they're putting up
their Christmas lights, trim trees, Andy
debell, finishing, mowing the lawn, those
types, you all do this across the board.
And it's not because of me, it's because
of you all and what's in your heart.
So what I get outta being a leader here
at West Metro and being the fire chief is.
I see all of you and how you all lead, and
that inspires me greatly every single day.
That's what I think sets us apart from
all other organizations is, that you all
believe, you all get why you're here.
just one really quick thing, if,
have you guys read Good To Great.
the book Good to Great.
So do you remember the flywheel concept in
Good to Great, flywheel's this big, huge
piece of machinery and it's, it's hard to
move, but once it's moving what happens?
It has great momentum.
And so when I first became the Fire Chief,
I felt like I was pushing the flywheel
by myself and it was hard, really hard.
And then I look over and I see,
Firefighters and chiefs and civilian
staff, all of a sudden they're pushing
and they're pushing harder than I am.
And that flywheel now has that momentum
where I think we're in a good spot.
So that's cool.
from a leadership perspective, I feed
off of all of you and what you all do.
Jon: That's a great, that's
a great way to leave it.
Those are some good closing
statements, if you will.
thank you Chief for your time.
You're a tough man to
track down, but thank
Don: you
Jon: for giving us this hour and a half
roughly of, really some good knowledge and
some good education, some good experience.
you've been here for a long time.
We're surely gonna miss you, but we
know that your next venture is gonna
be all the better the next chapter.
So thank you sir for your time.
Louis.
Louie: Yeah, I just wanna say,
and this is not an insult.
This is probably the best compliment
you can get once you retire.
This department is gonna be just
fine without you, and that's because
we're strong and we're healthy.
So thank you for that.
Thank you for setting us up for that.
We appreciate it.
And like my partner said, we appreciate
your time and your effort to this podcast.
It's been great.
Don: So can I ask, can
I just have one ask?
Jon: Yeah, absolutely.
Don: So two years from now, we'll do
two years from now will you call me up
and see how retirement is and see if
all the planning that I did made sense?
Jon: we will follow up.
And actually, so there was two,
I think there's two good segments
that we got as far as next
episodes or potential episodes.
So kind of money relationships I think
is one, but I think one that is often
overlooked and something that you
and Vicki have discussed is just like
that reentering into we're gonna be
spending a lot of time with each other.
So not just, you know, we were married
and you're going off to work, but now
that you're now retired and coming back
to the home where I'm used to you being
gone for two days is a real transition.
And that's something that we can probably
find some educated guests that can give
us some of their lived experiences.
But I think that would be another
great, episode in edition.
So we've got two
Louie: we'll check in on
you though, we'll check in.
Don: We'll,
Jon: gonna be in Costa Rica
Don: Yeah.
I'll call you from there.
Call me and, and to see, how
it is to be out a fixed income.
Jon: There you go.
A true pensioner.
All right, so that's gonna wrap it up.
Thanks for everyone for listening to a,
another episode of the fiscal Firehouse.
Louis, how do they get ahold of us?
Louie: if you have any questions or if
you have any ideas for future podcast
episodes, you can always email us
at Ask fiscal firehouse@gmail.com,
and you can also find us on Instagram
at, at fiscal Firehouse, and we'll
take your messages from there too.
Jon: Beautiful, everyone
stay safe out there and
Louie: keep saving.
Disclosure: The Fiscal Firehouse
Podcast is a podcast curated
specifically for local 1309 members.
This podcast is for informational
and educational purposes only,
and should not be construed as
professional financial advice.
Should you need professional
advice, consult a licensed
financial advisor or tax advisor.
The opinions of John Beatty, Louis
Barilla and their castmates are
solely their own, and don't reflect
that of West Metro Fire Rescue.