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Dr. Ron Hall, professor and pastor, and Peter Englert, pastor, help you delve into 1 John. Understand the context and background while applying this practical book of the Bible to your life.
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Peter Englert
00:01 - 00:22
Welcome to the first and introductory episode of Reading First John, which is a book in the New Testament, and I am here. We previously did Reading First Peter as a podcast. My name is Peter Englert. I am the Adult Ministries Pastor at Browncroft Community Church in Rochester, and I am with my friend and professor.
Peter Englert
00:24 - 00:34
I'm about to call him Doctor, but he's going to correct me. His name's Ron Hall. Let's start here. It was your idea to do 1 John.
Peter Englert
00:34 - 00:39
What kind of compelled you to come to this book? It seems like it's been a spiritual home for you.
Ron Hall
00:40 - 01:03
Yeah, well, it is such a neglected letter. You rarely hear sermons out of 1 John, yet there's so many passages that will stand out to us, you know, that we love him because he first loved us, or love not the world, neither the things that are in the world, love of this world isn't of the Father. So there's passages we hear.
Ron Hall
01:04 - 01:18
If we confess our sins, he's faithful and just to forgive us, cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Those are just a few highlights. So people know of those, but you really don't hear churches doing series out of the letter. It would be rare.
Ron Hall
01:18 - 01:54
And there's so much depth that if all you had was 1 John to live your Christian life out, in the first century, you would have had a substantive letter to really carry you a long way in the faith. It's not written to just baby Christians. It's written to people that have been serving the Lord for a while. And so because of that, I was motivated in the whole idea of people that were denying sin and the parallel with our culture that we deny sin are just a few highlights of the things that really have caught my attention.
Peter Englert
01:56 - 02:21
Yeah, and just to let you all know the format of this podcast, what we do is in this first episode, we're just entering the book to help you understand it. But our goal is whether you're in a small group, whether you're reading First John by yourself, we want to give you just the commentary and the insight to engage it really, really well. And so that's part of our heart and passion. So without further ado, let's jump right in.
Peter Englert
02:22 - 02:43
Um, you know, before you jump into the specifics of John, you know, if you have a commentary or a study Bible, uh, the, I would just recommend the NIV application study Bible just came out. It's one of my favorite commentary series. Uh, Craig Keener has a context, uh, Bible. So some of these study Bibles are really, really good.
Peter Englert
02:43 - 03:00
And what they do in the first page is they say things like the key theme, key verse dating. So. What Ron is about to give you is kind of for free, but these are key aspects. Don't skip the introduction because it's going to help you get the book.
Peter Englert
03:00 - 03:05
So without further ado, like walk us through some of the bullet point introductory points of First John.
Ron Hall
03:05 - 03:30
Well, there was a lot of false doctrine that was going around in the first century, just like we have today. And so John is writing to present to them what real true Christian belief is like. versus the false teaching. The biggest one that we're going to deal with is the denial of Jesus Christ being the Son of God and actually coming in the flesh.
Ron Hall
03:31 - 04:06
And so he gives tests in the letter regarding how do we know if someone is a genuine Christian and genuinely walking in the faith. And he's going to come down to the deity of Jesus Christ. If you have the Son, you believe in the reality of the incarnation that we call it, which means God became man and dwelt among us through the story of the birth of Christ, and that he was the son of God offering himself as a sacrifice for our sins. And John is going to drive that home, and it will come up in every single chapter.
Ron Hall
04:08 - 04:27
There was a group of people that were creating a lot of problems with false teaching. They are called cessationists. Not to get technical with us, but we're gonna be visiting that word again. Cessationists were people where John said, they were with us, they went out of us, but they really weren't of us.
Ron Hall
04:28 - 04:47
So they acted like they were believers, but in reality they weren't. Which you can already see by my saying that, we have parallels like that today. People attend church, but they're really not with it. People who say they're a Christian, but they want to do their own thing.
Ron Hall
04:48 - 05:05
And so that's going to occur again and again. There were also people that were denying sin. They believed that there was nothing in their life that needed to be confessed. And in the coming podcast, we'll be able to dig deeply into that as we open up 1 John.
Ron Hall
05:05 - 05:17
And we call them sin deniers, that they deny that they had anything really wrong with them. as if they had already arrived at perfection. And in chapter 2, that will come home. What?
Ron Hall
05:17 - 05:24
There's nothing wrong with me. I'm just fine the way that I am. Again, you can see the incredible parallels with today.
Peter Englert
05:27 - 05:50
So I think that that's really helpful to to get like some of the backdrop of it, because even what I'm hearing you say with this introduction is, you know, this is a church that's in conflict with most of the New Testament letters. There's some reason we actually in commentaries, you can look this up. They say the occasion. Why don't you walk us through?
Peter Englert
05:50 - 06:05
So we talked about the key theme. But then, you know, let's talk about like the key verse, the dates and the keywords, because I think those are kind of key things to look up. And let me start with the first one. I think that this is pretty powerful.
Peter Englert
06:06 - 06:22
You know, when people think positively about Christianity, they think of it synonymously with love. I think there's a lot of people that would say God is love. I think one of the surprising things is you and I kind of engage this. Their love is referred to 180 times in the Bible.
Peter Englert
06:24 - 06:29
24 of those times happened in 1st John. I think he's trying to tell us something.
Ron Hall
06:29 - 06:55
Yeah, that's the incredible part. But to help frame that a little more, Peter, and for those listening, it's understanding this John that we're talking about. And he wrote the Gospel of John, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John in the Book of Revelation. His trademark, his hallmark, a little play on my last name, His hallmark is dealing with love.
Ron Hall
06:55 - 07:16
And when we read the Gospel of John and the most famous, of course, John 3.16, for God so loved the world, that he drives that home. Well, that theme of the Gospel of John is driven home the same in 1 John. But remember, love is always balanced by judgment. So he also authors Revelation, which is full of judgment.
Ron Hall
07:17 - 07:51
So it's keeping that in mind. And this is John, one of the 12 apostles of Jesus, and we learn in Mark 3, verse 17, his brother was James, and that they were known as sons of thunder because they were given to fits of rage, anger, violent tempers. They're the ones that wanted to call down fire from heaven to turn people into crispy critters. because they were not following after Christ.
Ron Hall
07:51 - 08:17
And three years with Jesus put a lot of tenderizer on him. And he became known as the Apostle of Love, or also Jesus, the disciple whom he loved. And so endeared was John that he's the only one of the 12 that show up of the 12 disciples at the foot of the cross. and the rest of them have scattered.
Ron Hall
08:18 - 08:49
John returns, and Jesus thought so highly of him, he entrusted the care of his mother to John on the cross. And that's huge for us to be able to understand. So he's a person that was given to a career of fishing, but Jesus calls him out of that into this incredible ministry And again, where we get the Gospel of John, 1st, 2nd, 3rd John, and Revelation.
Peter Englert
08:50 - 09:09
I love that. And again, sometimes even just studying this and thinking through this, we kind of gloss over some things. So one of the things that stood out to me is The book like the dating of the book is late 80s to early 90s. Yes.
Peter Englert
09:10 - 09:31
And so the description that you're bringing up, which I think is really powerful. What we're saying is 80 to 90 years after Jesus, give or take, you know, just we we started with, you know, timing, you know, AD after Jesus. Yes. And, you know, John is probably one of the last apostles left.
Peter Englert
09:32 - 09:59
And I think that that's even what brings more power to this book is like we're we're not talking 10 to 20 years, a 40 year old, like we're talking someone that's, you know, very close to death. And I think that that probably frames the way that we read this book. This is less of, you know, an opus in your 40s. This is hey, this is probably one of the last things I'm going to write before I die.
Ron Hall
10:00 - 10:23
Yes. you know, if history is accurate outside of the Bible, John is the only one to die of natural causes. So we are dealing with a letter that could have been written 55 years plus after the resurrection, if we place the resurrection around 30 to 33 AD. So here is John.
Ron Hall
10:23 - 11:12
We should have identified, I should have noted this before, the letter is probably written from Ephesus and John was overseeing the church and churches of the expansion from Ephesus itself. Paul was the one who established the church in Ephesus, and we read about that in Acts 18 and 19, and he was there for three years, the longest of any of his places of ministry, and he's followed by Timothy becoming the pastor, and then John picks up to be the pastor to oversee this church in the region of Ephesus, which was known as Asia Minor at that time, and the greater area region where these churches were placed.
Peter Englert
11:15 - 11:30
So there's a lot of context there. So that actually changes the way that I read Ephesus, because in some ways it's a prequel to this book or Ephesians, I should say. Ephesus is a place. So, yeah, let let me just walk through a couple other things.
Peter Englert
11:31 - 11:46
Let's come here to the theme verse. So we don't want to jump ahead, but I think it's helpful, you know, for each book. There is kind of a central verse. And again, sometimes commentators and pastors will argue.
Peter Englert
11:46 - 12:15
So if you read somewhere else, that first, John, that this is not written in stone. But, you know, for our purposes, first, John 513, it says, I write these things to you who believe in the name of the son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. And I think one thing that you're probably going to pick up Um, in the gospel of John, most people think the theme versus towards the end of the book. So again, there's five chapters in first John.
Peter Englert
12:16 - 12:38
The theme verse in John is John 20, which is towards the end or John 21. I've written these things that you may believe. And so I think in some ways, John is not necessarily saying something new, but even this theme verse is very connected to what he's writing and very connected to the book. So not just this book, but all of his books.
Ron Hall
12:39 - 12:51
Yeah, excellent. Pick up and to reflect on it. And in that key verse, we have this idea of son of God. Because remember, there were people that were deniers that Jesus was God.
Ron Hall
12:51 - 13:16
And we'll deal with some of the false doctrines that exist about the deity of Christ and entire groups that deny him, but we'll get to that later in later sessions. But for now, it's just understanding this denial of Jesus being God. And if you don't have that straight, then Jesus was just a man who died on the cross. But the fact is, he was God's.
Ron Hall
13:16 - 13:19
So John drives that home in this key verse out of
Peter Englert
13:20 - 14:03
first Peter first John 513 hmm okay that's a good preview so we'll just kind of hold it there let let's kind of come back to the backdrop of first John I I want to compare it with Romans and Revelation because I think that this is where it's going to be helpful maybe When we talk about apologetics, I think it has to do with proving that Jesus is real, proving theology, and you have a book of Romans that the proving is so connected to the Old Testament. And and it's just let me talk to you about Abraham. Let me talk to you about theology and logic.
Peter Englert
14:03 - 14:16
And then you have revelation that's writing to the churches. It's highly connected to the last six chapters of Daniel. But when we get to first John, I. I there's deep theology.
Peter Englert
14:16 - 14:28
We're going to talk about confession. But it's almost as if it's apologetic for Christianity. If someone was reading this, that didn't know Jesus was the way people lived. It was the way that they loved.
Peter Englert
14:29 - 14:48
It was being light, not darkness. And so that's kind of the way that I kind of, um, compare the doctrine. This is a very practical doctrine book, maybe applicable because even, you know, atonement is very applicable. Justification is very applicable.
Peter Englert
14:48 - 14:55
But this is like grit on the ground. This is how we do it kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Peter Englert
14:55 - 14:57
Is is that how you see it? It's good.
Ron Hall
14:57 - 15:23
I mean, the theology, when you get into chapter two and the first couple of verses are all about the atonement idea. but it is a practitioner's letter. So, for instance, how can we say we've loved God whom we have not seen if we can't love our brother whom we have seen? And when he gets into the letter, he'll deal with, this is how you know whether or not you love God, by how you treat other people.
Ron Hall
15:24 - 15:39
And he'll use Old Testament examples in order to drive that home. So there is that love-hate tension, which is characteristic of John. You got light and you have darkness. You have your in or your out.
Ron Hall
15:40 - 15:58
And so it's very, in many ways, it's black and white for the practitioner. So how do I know if I'm really serving the Lord? And I love it when it's driven home in chapter three. Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us that we'll be called the children of God.
Ron Hall
15:58 - 16:16
And this is how we know whether or not we're children of God. So for those of you who are struggling, am I really a Christian? You've fallen into sin, you've had something that's not going well in your life, am I really a Christian? John drives it home that we can have this confidence in us.
Ron Hall
16:17 - 16:21
So I'm glad you brought up the idea of practitioner, because that's what I would call this letter.
Peter Englert
16:23 - 16:42
Mm. I think that that's really helpful. And and again, you know, one of the things that you taught me in prison epistles is, you know, sometimes we think, you know, books like Ephesians chapters one to three, they're theological, but they're not applicable. And then, you know, chapters four to six, they're not applicable.
Peter Englert
16:42 - 17:00
We believe the Bible is all applicable, but sometimes it's a little bit more practical. And I think even what I hear you saying, is in some ways John is direct. He's not waiting for a chapter to talk about how the theology connects to real life. He's literally doing it there.
Peter Englert
17:00 - 17:11
And he's saying, hey, if God is love and you hate your brother, you haven't experienced the gospel. Like it's that basic and simple right there within the passage in the verse.
Ron Hall
17:12 - 17:31
That's it. And Right from the first chapter, if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, God's Son, cleanses us from all sin. So right there from the outset of the letter, do you accept the fact that Jesus is God? If you don't, you're not a believer.
Ron Hall
17:32 - 17:54
Do you then accept the fact that God is light? If you don't accept that, and you're thinking it's darkness, you don't have fellowship with Him. Or do you deny the reality of sin. So you're spot on that it is the idea of this practical living out, and so we're not going hunting for the application, it's there for us.
Peter Englert
17:54 - 18:09
Mm hmm. Let's you know, I want to jump in a couple other things like the audience, because we've kind of hinted about Ephesians. I think we we can go deeper in that. But I think something that's helpful for our readers that you point out is just the organization of John.
Peter Englert
18:09 - 18:25
So I'm going to I'm going to read kind of what the organization is. So in in first, John one, one to four, we have a prologue where it's setting the stage for the book, an introduction. And then first, John one, five to 227. God is light.
Peter Englert
18:25 - 18:37
So you can kind of put it all under there. And then first, John two, twenty eight to four, six. God is righteous. First, John four, seven, five to five, twelve.
Peter Englert
18:37 - 19:02
God is love. and then there's a closing section in 1 John 13-21, I think that that organization really sets the tone for what we're saying, is there are these deeply, highly theological, systematic theological, biblical theological points, but they are all packaged in right-of-way application practical in each section.
Ron Hall
19:03 - 19:19
Yes. And by seeing that progression as we work through it, we will find it will repeat some of those same themes. So themes that are introduced in chapter one will be reaffirmed. And that's what makes it such a rich letter.
Ron Hall
19:21 - 19:45
So much so that I want to motivate a lot of you to, all of you actually, to memorize some of these passages of Scripture. Write them out on a three by five card, have them in your pocket, with you in the car that you will be reinforcing it, because you'll find there'll be a loop. We call it recapitulation. So the theme is introduced, and then it is revisited again to drive us home.
Ron Hall
19:45 - 19:53
So that when we come to the end of the letter, yes, Jesus is God, and we need to be walking in the light as he is in the light.
Peter Englert
19:56 - 20:15
Something I want to come back to because I think that this is important for our listeners. We touched on this probably being written in Ephesus, Ephesian churches. A lot of the books that we talk about, they seem like they're either Gentile or Jewish, and there's always some type of Jewish influence. Yeah.
Peter Englert
20:16 - 20:25
Where do you see that tension or that focus playing out in the book to help our readers understand maybe what the original readers were seeing?
Ron Hall
20:25 - 20:57
Yeah, this is primarily a letter that is written to a Gentile audience, in other words, non-Jewish people. It has Jewish themes. It will make reference to Old Testament passages, but it's not going to be, say, like Romans, even though Romans wasn't just you know, Gentile audience, lots of Jews too, but it used a lot of Old Testament passages, where 1 John isn't doing a lot of that. So these are people that came into the faith of Christianity.
Ron Hall
20:57 - 21:20
They were exposed to it. Some were in it, but really not of it, as we've already talked about with these people that went out from the church, but were false believers. And so the audience is primarily Gentiles, that come to a saving faith of Christ, and now they need to learn what that means. And we need to appreciate that.
Ron Hall
21:20 - 21:39
That's why I think the letter is so relevant for us today, and I don't know why it's neglected so much. And for all of you, it's five chapters, and it's one of those ones, you read it and you say, oh, I need to go back and read that again. This idea I talked about, recapitulation, you revisit the themes again and again, because it will help you in your daily walk.
Peter Englert
21:41 - 22:23
Well, let's kind of go there, you know, because I think this has been just a helpful introduction to know who wrote it. You know, one of the disciples and later apostle of Jesus, what the structure is, what the theme versus who is reading it, first of all. But if I'm approaching this book, you know, and I'm thinking about, you know, depending on when this person's listening to it, you know, we're recording this in a very polarized time. And it's interesting that a lot of our arguments and discussions, we think that we're going to gain ground or find common ground by some knowledge based argument.
Peter Englert
22:23 - 22:39
And I think that what John is even saying is there, there's a beauty, there's a whimsy, there's a relational level to the gospel that people experience the truth of the gospel. And you do have to say it. There is justice. There is darkness.
Peter Englert
22:40 - 22:56
But but there's something rich and deep about this book in a time when, you know, it take the first kind of connection with an enemy or even just with someone on the other side is actually like they have to know that you love Jesus and you love them.
Ron Hall
22:56 - 23:09
Yeah. It's kind of the element of James. You know, you can show your faith just by talking about it, but I will show you my faith by my works. And so John is living it out.
Ron Hall
23:09 - 23:34
Back to the passage I mentioned before in 1 John 4, how can we say we love God whom we have not seen if we can't love our brother whom we have seen? And so love is, you show your love by your, your words and deeds. So you talk about it, but you live it out. You end up showing compassion for people.
Ron Hall
23:34 - 23:46
You care about them. It might be providing. We'll get real practical later on in dealing with food and clothing in another session. How do you show it practically?
Ron Hall
23:46 - 24:13
So just Godspeed, yeah, I love you, or I'll be praying for you and then never pray for him. So it's that action orientation that you're talking about. And if you remember, too, because here we are at the introduction of what love is, love in the Bible times is not something that's for this first century in this letter about romantic love. I have sentimental feelings for you.
Ron Hall
24:13 - 24:34
Genuine biblical love was love in action, and so John's concept of love is action. God loves us. This is the action he ended up taking for sending Christ for us, so that we can walk in the light as he is in the light. And so it's back to, again, the practitioner's idea.
Ron Hall
24:34 - 24:38
Love is about action. It's not about sentiment, having a good feeling.
Peter Englert
24:39 - 25:01
Well, it just makes me think, so I want to just set it up and caveat it. We believe forgiveness is different than reconciliation. You know, God calls all of us to forgive, whether there's the safety to reconcile, and forgiveness is also a process, but it's not a choice. So I want to just say that on the outset.
Peter Englert
25:02 - 25:30
You know, I think it was about a decade ago. I think you and I were living in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, when this happened. But there was the Amish school that had a shooting and the immediate practice of the Amish with rooted in Christianity was this intentional act of forgiveness. And I think sometimes we hear that story and we just think, oh, you know, they're they're just forgiving to forgive.
Peter Englert
25:30 - 25:59
And it's like, no, this is This is a rooted value from First John that we're watching be placed out there. This power of forgiveness and. Again, I'm using that as an example. I think all of you have to process that complication on your own, but that is just a brief glimpse of a picture that this theological doctrine plays itself out so people actually experience a little bit of the gospel.
Ron Hall
26:00 - 26:27
Yeah, and that was powerful. It happened in Mill Creek, Pennsylvania, and it was a milkman who ended up coming into a single-room schoolhouse and shot a bunch of the kids. devastation for them. And it had a national attention that went all around because the Amish practice was when you had a funeral, that's when you forgave and you buried it.
Ron Hall
26:27 - 27:09
And what was profound is the mother of children that were lost. She lost two of her kids, along with some of the other Amish women, went to the wife of the man who had committed the murders in a heinous crime, like we have things going on today, and ended up giving gifts and financial help. Now, the idea of forgiveness like that is beyond us, and as you brought up, I mean, there's a lot to process, because they were expecting the grieving to be over because you had the funeral in Amish practice. but there's a little more to go through with grieving, but incredible example of forgiveness, yeah.
Peter Englert
27:12 - 27:29
Well, I think we've done a pretty, we've taken a nice little chunk for those of you reading First John. Ron, I just want to give you the last word. Was there something else you wanted to mention or say in this introduction before we start kind of diving in in the next episode?
Ron Hall
27:29 - 28:05
Well, I am so looking forward to us Talking about what it means to really walk in the light as he is in the light It will be a fresh way of looking at what does it mean to be filled with the spirit? And if we could capture better the idea of God being light What that means is glory his presence We'd be far better off. So I think we're into a great journey and and I want your Christian lives to be richer for this, and I want to equip you with tools that will be able to, for you to be able to better help people.
Peter Englert
28:07 - 29:15
Well, next episode we're going to be in 1 John 1, so stay tuned, and thank you so much for joining us today. Welcome to the Reading First John podcast. I'm one of your co-hosts, Peter Englert, and I'm here with my friend, pastor and professor Ron Hall. Ron, in our first episode, we did the intro to John.
Peter Englert
29:16 - 29:32
Before we start, we're going to look at verses one to four slash a little bit of five before we jump in. But I thought before we started there, let's just talk big picture of how John is broken up and why this prologue matters to the rest of John.
Ron Hall
29:33 - 29:51
Yeah. Well, it's understanding why 1 John was written. John was in the area of Asia Minor. He became the pastor for that overall regent, and we don't know for how many years, but the Apostle Paul would have established the church in that area.
Ron Hall
29:51 - 30:17
Later on, Timothy was pastoring in that area, and then John came to take over all the churches. And we date the letter 85 to 90 AD, and then Revelation comes right after that. So we are talking about the letters at the end of the New Testament. And John is concerned about their doctrinal condition, and people that are coming into the church, or were already in the church that really weren't of them.
Ron Hall
30:18 - 30:47
And there needed to be corrective measures, and he also wanted people to know what it was like to genuinely be in the faith. Keep in mind, this is the Apostle John, and his brother was James, and we have a background from them in the Gospels, and so this is John speaking all of these years later. He's known as the disciple Jesus loved, but he's also known as the one about God being a God of judgment, to balance it out.
Peter Englert
30:49 - 30:59
I think that that's great. And just real briefly. So like, I think that that context is helpful. We have the prologue, which is versus one, one to four.
Peter Englert
30:59 - 31:11
And then the way that you have this charted off, which is many commentators do. God is light, which is one to five to one, five to 227. God is righteousness. 228 to 46.
Peter Englert
31:11 - 31:27
God is love for seven to 512. And then we have an epilogue 513 through 21. So just kind of let people know where we are. And I think the reason why what you're saying there is important is we're going to after I read this passage, we're going to get into why.
Peter Englert
31:28 - 31:52
What is the false teaching or maybe the misunderstanding that John is trying to address? And I think that we're going to see that in this letter, but also in the other letters. So without further ado, let me read the first five verses. It says this, 1 John 1, 1, 1, that which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched.
Peter Englert
31:52 - 32:04
This we proclaim concerning the word of life. The life appeared. We have seen it and testify to it. And we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the father and has appeared to us.
Peter Englert
32:04 - 32:21
We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard so that you may also have fellowship with us. and our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ. We write this to you to make our joy complete. This is the message we've heard from Him and declare to you.
Peter Englert
32:21 - 32:43
God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. You know, Ron, where I think I want to start, because you got me thinking and we're talking about connections. It's very fascinating to me. One of the most powerful passages in the Gospel of John is Jesus goes to Thomas, who We call doubting Thomas.
Peter Englert
32:43 - 32:56
He missed the first resurrection. And the thing he tells to Thomas is blessed are those who have not seen but believe it. Here we are. And he's saying we touched him.
Peter Englert
32:56 - 33:08
We saw him. And so there's just this interesting paradox that John is kind of going with. And I wonder if that's a great place to kind of start to frame what John is trying to say and do.
Ron Hall
33:08 - 33:20
Yeah. Well, he wants people to know that Jesus literally appeared. So you refer to the Gospel of John with Thomas. Go back to the beginning of the Gospel of John.
Ron Hall
33:20 - 33:43
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. and that we beheld him the only begotten of the Father. And that Jesus, the incarnation we call it, God becoming flesh and dwelling among us, Jesus was a literal physical person to be a physical sacrifice for our sins. And that's huge.
Ron Hall
33:44 - 34:30
This isn't a Hebrews class, but in Hebrews chapter 2, it is the best passage on the incarnation as to why God had to become a man, to be able to identify with us. So here at the introduction of the Gospel of John, the introduction of 1 John, are picking up on the same concepts, that Jesus literally appeared. With Thomas, okay, touch me to be able to see this is flesh and blood, but here we have the reality, we've been with him, we've been in his presence, that it was truly God in the flesh. Now, it's important for us all to understand there were two false teachings that existed at that time.
Ron Hall
34:31 - 34:53
Some of you might be familiar with this terminology, others aren't. There is a term called Gnosticism. These are people that believe they had a superior knowledge, and this doctrine was going all around this region of Asia Minor. and John is going to counteract that, and we'll deal with it later on in other sessions.
Ron Hall
34:54 - 35:26
There's also a doctrine, a teaching called doceticism, and that was the denial that Jesus literally came in the flesh, and that is the seedbed for false doctrines. You deny the reality of Jesus actually physically coming, God coming down from heaven and dwelling among us. Great passage to parallel with this is out of Philippians chapter 2. He's the one who came down from heaven, he humbled himself, and then became obedient unto death.
Ron Hall
35:26 - 35:33
So it's this full identification of Jesus becoming a man so that he could be a sacrifice for our sins.
Peter Englert
35:35 - 36:09
That's really great. Before we jump into the passage, I love the way you explain Gnosticism and Doceticism, but I think something that might be helpful is what's a phrase or something that someone might say today that would lean that way, maybe accidentally, but we'll start with Gnosis Gnosticism first. Like if someone said this, like in a small group, then again, we're not trying to be the theology police. But what might be something someone said today that they're kind of heading in that direction?
Ron Hall
36:11 - 36:21
Wow, there's a lot of them. I know better than you. I have a superior revelation. God has shown me things that you don't know about.
Ron Hall
36:21 - 36:46
I have a deeper insight with the Lord." Terminology like that, because they claim a superior knowledge, kind of like the people did in the Colossian letter. They claimed a superior knowledge and insight. And so that would be along the lines of Gnosticism, believing you're you're better than other people, you know more than anybody else.
Peter Englert
36:48 - 37:05
So let's talk about doceticism because, you know, again, one of the things that you'll find when you read the Bible is there's a timelessness. It's not like these things run away, but like what might be something someone would say that maybe they're kind of on the path there? Yes.
Ron Hall
37:06 - 37:28
Boy, that's huge. Doceticism would be that whole idea that Well, I'll give you an example. Where you are in Rochester area, not too far from you, is Palmyra, New York, the home of Mormonism. And the Mormons directly deny the deity of Christ.
Ron Hall
37:29 - 37:42
They do not believe that he is God. He was just a created being. So there's a denial. So that would be the whole Mormon background.
Ron Hall
37:43 - 38:15
I had a person that I was connected with some years ago who was a Jehovah Witness, and she was taking me to a physical therapy appointment I had, and we were talking about Jesus, and she said, I want you to get this straight. Jesus is not God. And the discussion did not go well because she did not believe in the reality of the Trinity at all. And so that was huge to be able to deal with.
Ron Hall
38:17 - 38:30
So doceticism, it's best reflected in 1 John 4 that we'll get to down the road. Anyone who denies that Jesus has come in the flesh is not of God. That's how we recognize false teaching.
Peter Englert
38:32 - 39:00
I think that that's super helpful because I think it frames the way that we read this passage. Because I think as 21st century individuals that live with the internet, you can lean one way or the other with some of these. But why is John talking about all of our senses, what we've heard, with our eyes, what we've looked upon, what we've touched? And so, you know, it's very, very clear.
Peter Englert
39:00 - 39:17
It's, and this isn't just stuff that we're reading into. Commentators have talked a ton about this. He, he begins immediately by saying, before I talk about the counterfeit in those false teachings, let me remind you about the truth. And I think that that's a good way.
Peter Englert
39:18 - 39:26
How, how is this passage broken down? How, what's the best way to read it and kind of walk us through it each, each step of the way?
Ron Hall
39:27 - 39:57
Well, We can dissect every verse or do what we're doing now of stepping back and looking at the big picture. Jesus wants, John wants them to know this is the very one that you are coming to, the one who is going to be forgiving your sins, the one who is going to be light to you, the one who is going to be the dispenser of truth for your life. So this is the one that we behold.
Ron Hall
39:57 - 40:16
That's why as Christians we sing so many songs about Jesus. You know, he's the greatest, he's the best, his name is higher than any other. Just like it says in Philippians, he's given him a name that is above every name. So John wants them to know the literalistness of Jesus himself.
Peter Englert
40:19 - 40:48
Yeah, and I think what's powerful about that is, I know that spirit is mentioned in this passage, but Even this passage hints at the complicated but very vital, important trinity, the doctrine of the Trinity. And, you know, at the end, like tying together, Jesus has fellowship with the Father. So again, when you're reading this, start thinking about those stories. So when Jesus gets baptized, you know, they can hear a voice from heaven.
Peter Englert
40:49 - 41:14
Who's the father? This is my son who I'm well pleased with. And you begin to go through all the and Jesus talks about the spirit. So in many ways, what we see John doing is pointing at Jesus and and really dispelling some of the myths, the misguided teachings, or maybe even the the soup du jour of the day to make sure, hey, let's let's get this right.
Peter Englert
41:14 - 41:16
And that happens with us today, too.
Ron Hall
41:17 - 41:33
Yeah. And that's why I think he lays, not I think, it's why he lays such a strong foundation at the beginning. This is our source of life. And you'll notice he even refers to that in verse two, proclaiming to you eternal life.
Ron Hall
41:33 - 41:56
It is found in the person of Christ for what he's done. And he'll move in when we get to chapter two, the first two verses, that he's an atoning sacrifice for our sins. So he's the one, that word for atonement, He died in our place. So this is the and we have to take it literally that Jesus physically came.
Peter Englert
41:59 - 42:22
So I think we've talked about one and two, but one of the things that and again, I think sometimes we over as Americans, maybe this is just me, I confess, you know, we skim through introductions. You can't do that with the first verses of the Bible. You can't. And verse three, I think, is really, really important because it talks about this word fellowship.
Peter Englert
42:23 - 42:43
It's an archaic, sometimes weird word in the 21st century. But I think it really points to what John is saying about relationships. So when John talks about fellowship and he talks about the fellowship of the father and the son, and then he talks about our fellowship, what do you think he's pointing to?
Ron Hall
42:44 - 43:15
Well, You already pointed out the relationship of the Father and the Son, and that is that word that's used in the New Testament, koinonia, which means there's a commonality among people, so it's where they're functioning together. It comes with use in Acts chapter 2. They continued steadfastly in the imposter's doctrine, fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayer. So this fellowship means that there was a camaraderie among them.
Ron Hall
43:16 - 43:32
They shared in mutual faith together. And it shows up numerous times within the New Testament. And the fellowship isn't fluff. It is fellowship that goes deep, what unites us, because we are fellow believers.
Ron Hall
43:33 - 44:05
I was thinking about this in church on Sunday, and we were singing an incredible worship song, and all of the people are together in the service, and we realize, and hands are lifted up, people are worshiping. It's not about the worship team, it's about singing to the glory of God and how holy he is. And I just thought there was such a sense of peace among us. There was joy, there was rejoicing, and people were really into it.
Ron Hall
44:05 - 44:14
And I thought, well, that's fellowship we're having with the Lord. And then you realize we need fellowship with one another. So it's a camaraderie that we share.
Peter Englert
44:15 - 44:39
Well, and later on in the passage or later on in the book, it's going to talk about if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we won't hate our brother. We'll love our brothers. And, you know, chapter two, which I think is my favorite, you know, John speaks to direct audiences, direct people, whether it's young men or old men. And so I think that that's powerful.
Peter Englert
44:40 - 45:08
And, you know, just going to your point, you know, today I was having a conversation Um, I oversee a ministry called small groups and it's living intentionally with 10 to 12 people in your life. And a lot of small groups, um, they'll either become really good social groups that they don't talk about the Bible and pray, or they become like super Bible study. Intellectuals. And I think that both of those visions miss it.
Peter Englert
45:08 - 45:28
It's the holistic relationship. Hey, we're going to pray together and we're going to pray for each other that God would be glorified. We are going to read scripture together and we not only are we going to read scripture to debate it theologically, but we are going to allow it to pierce our hearts to apply it. And we're going to have fun together.
Peter Englert
45:28 - 45:52
You know, we're going to eat together and. And the vision that the relationship between the Father and the Son, the vision that Jesus gives to us is it's not this like compartmentalized relationships. Yes, we worship and we do all these things together because of the commonality of Jesus that we can love our neighbor. And I think that that's even the power of John starting here.
Peter Englert
45:52 - 45:55
I want to give you a picture of what healthy relationships look like.
Ron Hall
45:55 - 46:20
Yeah, well, I think John is affirming that. and the other parts of the New Testament affirm it. I've gone through in-depth study with the New Testament, and half of the New Testament is devoted to relationships, how we get along with one another. I'm dealing with an individual now that there's no church that's good enough for him, because he wants churches to do things a certain way.
Ron Hall
46:20 - 46:39
And So he connected with our church. He wasn't happy that they wouldn't talk about a certain subject. So he basically took his papers from this regeneration group, and he left. And then the pastor had another staff person say, you better get in touch with Ron, because he's a neighbor of Ron, to be able to deal with it.
Ron Hall
46:40 - 47:01
And I said to this guy, there are over 700 churches in Charlotte, North Carolina, where I am. And you mean to tell me there is not one church you can find that will be right for you? And he said, well, these people that he likes are from different parts of the country. And I said, if you actually went to those churches, you'd find out they have their own challenges.
Ron Hall
47:01 - 47:11
What we need to do is realize we're fellow believers, and therefore, we need to function together. We need to blend together. It's the one and others of the New Testament.
Peter Englert
47:13 - 47:30
So let's kind of go here, because the last two verses I think are pretty powerful. We've talked a little bit about light. in verse 5, what is John hinting at in verse 4? We write that your joy may be complete.
Peter Englert
47:30 - 47:32
What do you think that that means?
Ron Hall
47:33 - 48:03
You know, it's interesting because Paul does that same thing, and John does this same thing in 2 and 3 John. He wants joy to be complete by them being in harmony around sound doctrine. In this case, the reality of the Incarnation and what that means, that that brings satisfaction to his life. And we should be experiencing joy when we know people are in keeping with sound doctrine.
Ron Hall
48:04 - 48:23
That should be something that moves our hearts deeply. So it's a matter of him being able to get it out, communicate with these people that he loves. Because remember, he's their overseeing pastor with this whole region. We don't know how many thousands were involved, but it impacted a lot of people.
Peter Englert
48:25 - 48:50
Yeah, that's really powerful. And so we touched on the incarnation, which it's the belief of God being fully God, fully man, Jesus being born in a manger. As we kind of come to a close, because this has been really deep for four verses, how does the Incarnation apply to us today? What does that look like?
Peter Englert
48:50 - 48:53
Why should we care so much about it outside of December?
Ron Hall
48:54 - 49:23
Well, I'm glad you brought reference to the idea of the Trinity. in John, and he's going to deal with the Holy Spirit working within us, the Father and the Son. The incarnation should matter to us because Jesus himself sets up a home within us and through the Holy Spirit, and therefore we become a living expression. There's an old hymn that we used to sing in church to be His hand extended, reaching out to the oppressed.
Ron Hall
49:24 - 49:40
That's the idea that we have with the Incarnation. The Holy Spirit sets up a home within us, and we become a reflection of Christ. And that matters. You know, I mean, the idea the only Jesus some people ever see is the Jesus in you.
Ron Hall
49:41 - 50:03
And that's not to be said tritely. that you and I become a living expression of Christ with our acts of kindness and how we care. Someone did an incredible act of kindness to me recently, and my response was I couldn't thank them enough. And I had another person, I did the same thing, two different issues that came up recently to be able to extend it.
Ron Hall
50:03 - 50:06
So we are a reflection of Christ.
Peter Englert
50:08 - 50:43
Well, and something that you just said about being the reflection of Christ, I know that there's some varied thoughts on Eugene Peterson's paraphrase, but I do enjoy in John Wood, John 1, the way he paraphrases it. He says, And Jesus came to the neighborhood and neighbored among us. And I think that that's a pretty powerful picture of, you know, it's not just the light in the darkness, but Jesus showed up. And so I think as leaders, as pastors, as followers of Jesus, we're people that show up.
Peter Englert
50:44 - 51:08
Um, you know, I think probably the most revolutionary thing you can do in your life is get to know your neighbors. And, you know, just, you've already told like four stories today, not, not mentioning for the first Peter podcast that we did about getting to know your neighbors. This, this is a value. This is a practice that what Jesus has done in us, we reflect to others.
Peter Englert
51:09 - 51:21
And so like, it is your literal neighborhood. I'd even dare say your online neighborhood. Everywhere we go, we reflect Christ. And so it's our it's our call to be like him.
Ron Hall
51:22 - 51:47
Yeah. And John, we'll pick up on that further when we get to chapter three. you know, that idea that, you know, He's within us, that brings purity to our lives, and we have this hope within us, well, then we express that to others. And if we're not interacting with anyone, if we're never expressing the Christianity that we have within us, you know, we're depriving people of what can come out of our lives.
Ron Hall
51:48 - 51:58
So, and And then there's the balance of the false doctrine that goes there. But in the letter, then we find out those who are really part of this fellowship.
Peter Englert
51:58 - 52:41
Hmm. So as we come to a close, because this has been a really good conversation, I think between you and me, we can give just kind of one application, you know, for it. And in something within our conversation that I'm kind of applying with John one one to five is I'm thinking about how John has talked about all the ways that he's experienced Jesus. And I think it's worth like after you close this podcast, you know, to get first John one one to five and just maybe write down four or five ways that you've experienced Jesus in your life, whether it's a miracle, whether it's a conversation, an answer to prayer.
Peter Englert
52:41 - 52:58
I think this passage really it does teach, but it causes us to reflect in gratitude, which I think also allows us to see the future differently. What's maybe one concrete application that we can take from your mind?
Ron Hall
52:59 - 53:24
I think it's being able to keep our arms and our hearts wrapped around in our minds that Jesus is God and he came and dwelt among us. We can wear that out at Christmastime, but it's the truth. If there is no Christmas of the reality of Christ, then there is no Easter Sunday. So we're talking about what the Lord has done.
Ron Hall
53:24 - 53:31
So you're giving the practical application. I would just reinforce that with the reality of who Jesus is. He is God.
Peter Englert
53:33 - 53:40
What a great conversation, Ron. We're looking forward to really digging in next time, and we hope you all have a great day.