Loan Officer Success Live

Buckle up because this episode is a masterclass in mortgage leadership, operational excellence, and radical industry innovation!
Host Devin Dubuc welcomes long-time friend and industry icon Jemma Pachiano, Chief Innovation Officer at Legend Lending, to talk about her inspiring rise from loan officer to executive powerhouse.

💥 Key Takeaways:

Why radical transformation, not tiny tweaks, is the future of mortgage
Jemma’s “digital DNA” vision: eliminating paper, embracing data
What real leadership looks like in high-pressure moments
How to prepare for the future of regulation, compliance, and tech in lending
A call to action for the industry to wake up and disrupt itself

Jemma doesn't just lead - she redefines what's possible. Don’t miss this one.

#LOS.Live #LoanOfficerSuccessPartnerLive #MortgageIndustry #WomenInLeadership #MortgageInnovation #MortgageTech #PremierLending

Creators and Guests

Host

Devin Dubuc

Coach. Dreamer. Dad. Helping you own your worth and go after what sets your soul on fire🔥

What is Loan Officer Success Live?

This isn’t another sales tips podcast.
This is LOS.LIVE - where mortgage and real estate pros come to master modern growth without the burnout.

Hosted by Devin Dubuc, LOS.LIVE is a deep dive into the psychology, strategy, and systems that build legacy-driven businesses in today’s market. Whether you're a high-performing loan officer, a rising agent, or an entrepreneur scaling fast—you’ll learn how to attract clients, grow income, and lead with brand, not brute force.

Real conversations. Tactical playbooks. No cold-call bro-hype. Just clarity, confidence, and creative firepower.

You don’t need a script. You need a strategy. Welcome to LOS.LIVE.

Social Media Links:
Instagram: www.instagram.com/los.live.hub/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/los.live.hub
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@los_live

Premier Lending, Inc.
13850 Ballantyne Corporate Place Ste #380
Charlotte, NC 28277
NMLS #238143

Disclaimer: The information is intended to be viewed for informational purposes only. The content contained herein is not guaranteed or endorsed by the company, or any company mentioned, nor is this content meant to be an offer of credit. The information contained in this video may not be wholly or at all applicable to every situation or jurisdiction. You are strongly encouraged to consult your professional mortgage advisor before acting upon any information in this video. The information provided is for use as a training tool only. The information is not intended, nor should it be relied upon for any other purpose.

All right, guys.Welcome back to LOS Live, In Action.And guys, man, what a monster show we've got today.A great friend of mine, uh, you know, previous co-worker, and just an amazing individual.One of the smartest people in this industry that I've ever met.Gemma Pacchiano, with Legend Lending.Man, I am so, so proud to have you here on the show with me today.Thank you so much for joining in.Guys, get ready, because, uh, you're gonna have to put them seat belts on.She's gonna drop some bombs today.So Gemma, welcome to the show.Glad to have you here.Ah, thanks for having me, Devin.I feel like it's, uh, much bigger than just being friends and co-workers.I feel like we grew up together a little bit in the business.Uh, you know what?Amen to that.Amen to that.You know, I remember the first time that we really met.Uh, Plano, Texas.Mm-hmm.You came over because I was onboarding to Mid America Mortgage, and you spent some time in our office really nurturing and helping our team get up to speed, so that we could have a fast start.And boy did we, you know?Boy, did we.It was funny, I remember when we started over there, we were closing about 30 to 37 loans a month with our previous company, and within 60 days, we'd doubled that.Uh, and, uh, part of that, I, I'd like to say was because of you, Gemma.Uh, I don't know about that.Was that circa 2011 or 2012?So that, I believe 2011.I think it was- Yeah.2011.That's, you know- A long time ago.That sounds right.I don't know.It was- Mm-hmm.Yeah, well, you know, 14 years ago.I'm gonna go, the second go.I don't really get it.You know.Yes, I'm getting old.You were like 20 years old then.I love it.I love it.But now you're not even in Dallas anymore, uh, and so you're, uh, you're in Florida- That's right.Right?I am.I, I kinda call myself a modern day gypsy.Hm.Me and my husband, uh, like to keep things exciting and, uh, we move a lot.So we are in Florida now.Um, Space Coast, about 45 minutes due east of Orlando.Uh, near the NASA base.So- Very cool.We, um, mixing it up past couple years.Yeah.Well, and before you did that, I, I think you guys were out on the west side of Texas too, right?Out there in the middle of nowhere, with all the tumbleweeds andOil field.We were in the oil field.That was it.Yep.I remember.I remember, and I think if I'm right, uh, your husband loves cars.Obsessed might be a better word.Yeah, yeah.Enthusiast, maybe.The month.And you being a Boston girl, love lobster and purses.Yeah.So we went to New England for 2 weeks this summer, and like, it's just different eating lobster in the Northeast.Mm.Um, I can tell, like for my husband, when we first met, he was like, "Oh, lobster's okay."And then I brought them to Maine and he was like, "Oh my gosh, this is real lobster?"So we definitely had like, this summer, just some massive bowls of lobster stew.Ah.Um, so yeah.Just kind of a different world, but yes, we love lobster.You know, it's funny you mention that.I just, as I told you before we jumped on, I just got back from the Bahamas, and, uh, as strange as it is, we met some folks from Boston.And, uh, went out to dinner with them and, uh, I ordered the lobster roll.And they were like, "You know, I thought about that," and then I thought, "No, probably shouldn't- Yeah.because the Bahamian lobster's definitely not the same as the lobster up north."Uh, so, uh- Yeah.So, and they were right.It wasn't good.I think there is, I mean, there's lobster in the Bahamas, but it's a different species, so to say.Same down with the Keys in Florida.People talk about a certain species of lobster that's, um, in the Keys.I haven't tried it yet, but I'm like, there's nothing like a Maine lobster fresh off the boat in Maine, so.I, I couldn't agree with you, and I've never been up north, but I've had some Maine lobster here in Dallas, and, uh, absolutely a different experience.And not that that lobster roll was bad.It just wasn't, wasn't as good as the ones I've had before, so.Mm-hmm.Yeah.Well, enough about lobster.Uh, so we're here to talk about you and all the cool things that you've done.Uh, and some of the cool stuff that you've actually got going on too.So, um, so I know I mentioned Legend Lending.Um- Yeah.You worked with me at Mid America.Mm-hmm.Uh, which is now Click & Close.Um, when we started on, you were there to help onboard, but you eventually became the COO.Mm-hmm.That's a big title.Maybe.How do you do that?How do you becomeAn- and you've worked as a loan officer and a processor.Like you've- Yeah.literally run almost every position in this industry.Like, how do you do that?Like, how do you get from there- You know-to where in your career?I feel like that's my magical power.Um, so I've beenSo this fall will mark 23 years in the business.I'm going into 24 years in the business.And that first half of my career, I was sales.I was your loan officer.Yep.Very traditional, out on the streets, networking with realtors.Um, and you know, went through the collapse of 2008, 2009.And, h- you know, was really successful and loved it, and I still love being a loan officer.I still hold my NMLS license and, and close loans Yeah.Like, I close loans 'cause I feel like it's, it's important to practice your craft and keep- Mm-hmm.connected to that side of the ecosystem.Um, and then I had a move in 2010 to start my life with my husband.So it brought me across the country, and just kind of a reflection, uh, point in my career where it's like, "Hey, am I gonna build this new sales territory in DFW, in Dallas-Fort Worth, one of the biggest metroplex in the- Yeah.country, or in the world?"Right.Um, and just kinda stumbled across, uh, different, um, groups of people and ended up at Mid America within a year of us moving, and kinda was sales, ops, in a branch.You know, kinda wearing a lot of hats.um, and then just ended up growing up the ranks in operations at Mid-America.Yeah.Just kind of that, you know, I guess sweetheart story where started out in a branch and support and, you know, training director.And I kind of used to joke that I was student council president, you know?Mm-hmm.I was always the voice of the people.Um, very connected to what was going on down in the pipelines, in the trenches.Absolutely.But able to communicate and be a part of the leadership team.Um, and then we just had a changing of the guard at the end of 2020.Right.And, um, uh, our COO position opened up and, uh, Jeff Bodye, the great owner of Click & Close, came to me and said, "Hey, it's your shot."And so super thankful for that opportunity.Didn't really see it coming, and it just happened, and it was amazing.That was a big year for all of us.It was.It was COVID, so the entire industry experienced, you know, a trajectory that they had never experienced before.So while everyone else wasI was just telling this story the other day.While everyone else was watching Netflix, like-binging on Netflix, we were all working 20 hours a day.Unbelievable.Right.Yeah.Uh, like up at 4:00 AM and offyou know, not off the computer till midnight.And so we just- Yeah.We had a banner year.You were a part of that, you know?I was.Your sales team was part of that.We were all part of that together and, um- Over 1,700 loans that year.Yeah, we did 2 point- Just my branch, just mine.2.5 1000000000.Yeah, we did 2.5 1000000000.We did.We did 10,000 units in retail- We did, yeah.that year.So just a great year to kind of get thrown into that COO position.And we just had a great team.We had allI just say this all the time.We all grew up together, so that- We did.was our sales leaders and, you know, people leaders and, um, you know, key players on our operations team.And so it was just kind of this perfect synergy that year of growth and, um, the markets aligning and just getting a great opportunity to lead a super awesome group of people and a massive pipeline.Absolutely.Um, many hours at the desk, and, umAnd then 2022, I think it changed for the entire industry, and- It did.Click & Close went through a little bit of a, um, sale of some of their divisions, and I moved over as part of that sale to Legend and, and really got another great opportunity.You know, I carry that title Chief Innovation Officer.Mm-hmm.But I am very involved in the business practices and risk management and compliance, and so just kind of rounding out that experience of the ecosystem in sales, very traditional ops, um, and then, you know, getting into some of those business practices and, um, risk and compliance side.And, and so I have.I've really touched it all.You got it.Um, and I feel like that's somewhat of my superpower.Um- Oh, no question.And just, you know, just really blessed to have all that opportunity over all those years and, and touch all those, um, points.And I feel like I'm a s- a loan officer at heart, but I love ops and it really allows me to, um, just be a great ops, um, mastermind, because I also always had that salesperson, you know- You got that brand.in the back of my head.Yeah.Yeah.You know how files should flow.Well, and I wanna go back a little bit, you know, because at the end of the day, I've watched you work and, you know, I've been a part of that growth and I've seen, you know, um, what, uh, what you bring to the table, right, I think is the best way to put it.And, you know, sometimes, you know, when you're transitioning somebody into a role, it's the right role but the wrong person, right?Mm-hmm.But in your case, it was the right role and the right person.Like, you were up for the challenge, and you came into a very difficult position at a very difficult time.Mm-hmm.And you were able to keep our production going seamlessly.In fact, I feel like a lot of the departments really came together in a way that was really unexpected once you took that transition, and, uh, and, and really ran with it.And, uh, I, I can tell you, it's because I- I've seen your standards.They're very high, you know?Your standards are very high, and that's super important when you're in that type of a position.Um, holding yourself to the level of accountability that you do, it's impressive.You know, you're a true uni- unicorn in this industry, and I say that, you know, wholeheartedly, because I've seen you work, I've seen the way that you put things together, and there's a reason why we were able to hit that 2.5 billion that year.and it was because you were back there, you know, directing traffic and building systems and perfecting processes to allow for us to be able to maintain that type of production because it was massive.And there was a lot of growth and a lot of hiring and a lot of training and a lot of changing, but you did that.Mm-hmm.You know, and, uh, you did it in a time that was very difficult to do it without as much experience, right?In the role, right?Yeah.Making that happen.So, you know, I'd love to just step back and say, "You did that."You know?Yeah.You should own that because it was pretty epic and just, you know, I know a lot of times we talk about loan officers tooting their horns when the rates were really low, but in your position, that wasn't the situation.You had to make it all work when the rates were really low.So I'm gonna give you one of these, right?Like- Oh, wow.congratulation, right?Hats off to you, Gemma, you know, for- for, you know, being so awesome and, you know, it was a big part of the reason why I wanted to bring you over to thisto the show, you know?Thank you.So-flash forward to today, right?Yeah.Y- yeah, you know, today just learning a whole other angle, um, you know, still working with a few people, um, that we, you know, were a part of for all those years and- Yeah.and now working with the, uh, leadership team at Legend, which has been a- a cool, um, kind of full circle as well.Right.The owners of Legend were part of Mid-America back 14 years ago.Right.And so we've kind of had this full circle opportunity in, you know, getting to work together, um, in a different way, you know, 14 years later, um, and just kind of learning a totally different side of the business.Mm-hmm.And being able to kind of put the next piece into perspective where it's like originate, operations, and then you have this whole legal side and this post-closing side and this regulatory side, kind of this, um, side and- All the theories, yeah.it's not sexy for some people, you know?They're like, "I don't wanna know compliance and I don't really wanna know what the regulators do."Um, and so asOne of the things that I've done over the past couple years is I've brought us through all of our, um, NMLS state exams.Mm-hmm.And I bring that up because I've had the opportunity, I think we've gone through 27 state exams, which is standard.I mean, you may not realize it, but all the IMBs and mortgage companies are going through that, you know, on a daily basis, and just having the opportunity to talk to regulators.Right.And the state examiners and understand, um, you know, what's going on at the state level and what is driving, um, some of those things that we do day-to-day that we don't even realize that we're doing, whether it's disclosures or, you know, how we, um, safeguard what we're doing or the documents that we're collecting or how we're housing them.And so really having a chance to talk to, um, you know, the states and, um, you know, why they're making decisions or why they're doing things and talking to these examiners and getting kind of another perspective in that full ecosystem.It's been a- a really neat thing and kind of opened my brain up to more of the advocacy side.Right.Um, and really advocating for the industry, um, because we are disjointed, you know?Um, we have this really, you know, hungry sales teams and then you have these operations teams that are just like focused on their pipelines, but then you have this whole other regulatory world, um, that really actually is driving what we're doing and sometimes there is a disconnect, you know?Sometimes the regulators don't necessarily understand what the mortgage companies need and vice versa.The mortgage companies don't understand really the position that the regulators are coming from.It's kind of like when you talk about sales versus ops, they don't always understand each other.Well, you have this whole other, um, life outside of just the functioning mortgage company as well.And- and so that's been really fun to learn.Um, again, I said it's not sexy, but it's been really neat to learn.Right.Um, and really understand, you know, the workthe bigger work that we need to do as an industry and how we need to, um, you know, advocate for ourselves, um, so that we can be better for the consumer and it's this whole trickle down effect that affects the consumer.That's right.Right.Yeah.Um, and so we have to advocate for us as mortgage companies to grow as an industry, become better as an industry, become more efficient, um, more consistent, because all of that ultimately trickles down to the consumer, to our borrowers t- and that's really the end and net result of everything we do.We're here to service them, um, and we're here to, um, you know, um, provide a mortgage, to provide financing to one of the biggest financial, you know, um, decisions or celebrations of their life.I- I talk about that all the time.I talk about that all the time, right?You know, and I think what you're talking about is just, you know, the customer experience, right?The client experience, and how do we dial that in and make it the best possible experience it can be?And one of the things that I always like to say, you know, 'cause people always say it's the biggest financial decision of their life, and it is, but it's so much more than that, right?Mm-hmm.Like this is their home, like this is where they're gonna break bread, this is where they're gonna spend their holidays, this is when they're gonna have their good times and their bad times, and at the end of the day, we want that initial experience to be a great time, right?Mm-hmm.So how do we do that?And part of it has to do with people like yourself, Gemma, that are behind the scenes, you know, making surethat these experiences are, are fun and enjoyable.And I can't think, say that that's always been the case in this industry.I don't think everybody's always felt like they were fun and enjoyable.Um, but how do you break down barriers and, you know, make processes smoother and make it easier, uh, for all parties so that we can create a great client experience?And you're one of those people that's thinking about that while all of us others are, you know, out here just going through the motions.You know, you're behind the scenes making it happen.So, I love that.And I can be honest with you.I'll be full circle.I would never be able to do that.That's not my talent.That's not my gi-That is your gift, right, to be able to get involved and learn those things on such a high level, uh, so that we can, you know, start to make changes- Yeah.in the industry that are necessary, right?Yeah.And I feel like that, that's been one of my big, um, talking points lately is, how do we effect change in our industry?Amen.Um, how do we, you know, collectively make those changes?And there're so many pieces when it comes to running the mortgage company, you know, the consumer, the, the regulation, and the legal side.And I don't think that there's been enough push or enough pressure, um, or enough just real talk, and a lot of under- other industries are doing a really good job at, you know, progress.Yeah.Um, looking at radical change and making impact for the future.And, um, somebody said something to me yesterday and it caught me off guard a little bit because I feel like mortgage is everything for us.It's our entire existence.Right.Uh, sometimes I feel like it's my entire existence-and then it becomes my family's entire existence.Um, but I feel, somebody made the comment that the mortgage b- industry is not as big as we think it is.Mm-hmm.And that some of these other industries, whether it be healthcare or maybe energy, um, are, you know, progressing in whether it's technology or mindset or whatever it is, they're bigger industries.They have people investing more money, um, and they affect more people.Everybody has healthcare.Everybody needs energy.Not everybody has to have a mortgage.Um, and I stepped back and I was like, "Really?"Like, I'm thinking the mortgage industry is everything, but it's not.And so we, we need more people to step out and say, "Hey, we really gotta talk about some radical change."We have to get the cost to originate a loan down- Mm-hmm.so that mortgage companies, um, can continue to operate and continue to provide, um, for the consumer and give them, um, diversity in who they get to choose with their mortgage companies because the more that it costs to originate, the less competition we have and the less choices our borrowers have.And so, really digging in and saying, "What is that radical change?"And so I've got some visions.They might be kind of unicorns and, um, rainbows, but I do have some visions for what that is.It may be really radical for what a lot of people think it, it is, um, but I'm, you know, kind of been out there saying, um, you know, talking about what technology looks like for the future of our industry.Yeah.And, um, I think that really, we have got to really ta- start taking a hard look at that, um, just from a, a cost standpoint.Well, it's funny.I was literally gonna ask you.That was one of the questions that I had lined up, which is, you know, what do you see, you know, happening in the future, you know, with mortgage and, like, how do we improve, you know, the process overall?Um, so what do you see?What's on the horizon, Jemma?Like, what's, what's, what's coming down the pike?So I don't wanna use words that are too mythical or too scary for people.Um, but, you know, like, digital, right?We need to be digital.So, you know, digital DNA, source data, blockchain data.Um, you know, and I know those are kind of, like blockchain's a mythical word for people, so I just more explained it as, like, the digital DNA, right?Like, we need to start building a digital DNA of the consumer, a vis- digital DNA of the borrower's file, a digital DNA of our business practices, of our companies- Right.of how we answer to regulators.Everything is based on this paper concept, right?So you collect paper from your borrower, your loan officer.Your sales teams look at paper.Your operations team look at paper.Your QC team looks at paper.Your post-closing team looks at paper.Your examiners and your regulators, they're asking for the same paper.Then you have to record retention this paper, and everything is just revolved around all these touch points of this paper that, you know, um, is relyingWe're li- relying on humans to look at that paper.That's right.Um, and so we're kind of at this point where everyone's like, "Okay, well, we will, we will inject some AI to look at this paper."But I'm saying let's delete the paper all together and let's go straight to the source of the data.I love that.you know, if you just think about, like, if we talk about compliance, which is not the exciting s- part, but we have to report to- It's not.um, we have to report every quarter, you know, the loans we funded.Right.So I'm saying that data happens real time.Like, y- when we close a loan, the data's there, so why not have some sort of static reporting where, you know, at any moment, a regulator can come in and just see that digital, um, output of the loans that we closed.Right.Why am I, every 12 months, 24 months, pro- you know, providing some Excel spreadsheet of the loans that I funded and then restacking the files to send it, right?Like, it's this whole thing, and I don't think there's a magic bullet.We're all looking for that magic bullet or that, "We're gonna restructure our teams just a little bit," right?Like, "We're gonna put another LOA here or another underwriting assistant here, or we're gonna move our QC up in the process."And those are good, you know, tweaks, but it's not really rethinking the system.Like, it's not the magic bullet to all of a sudden become cost prohibitive, and it is an industry.And we've been really, as a society, talking about that cost to, like, get a mortgage and credit report fees are going up, and all these things cost money.Right.Um, and it is, it's expensive.Like, customers come and they look at their, you know, loan estimates and they're like, "Holy cow, this is a lot of money."You know, and we've kind of rationalized it over the years, like, "This is a, you know, this is a big thing.It's notYou're not going to the store buying milk, you're getting a mortgage and you have all these fees."But those fees are just bloating and bloating and bloating, and no one's making more money.Sure.Right.And so we're snowballing.And, um, I don't have all the answers.My brain is just constantly running, you know, like, "What do we need to do to eliminate the one thing that seems to cause the most touch points along the way?"And we just keep throwing people and more people and more people to look at this paper.Um, and so that's kind of my rainbows and unicorn is, you know, call it blockchain, call it immutable data, call it source data, call it digital DNA.It's somehow building out not just the customer or the customer's file, but everything we do with business practices and how we report to regulators.Um, you know, I feel like one of the agencies who's done a really good job at this, if anybody wants to look them up, is the, the CSBS.Um, they are, um, the entity that kinda controls the NMLS.They've been really, um, forward-thinking on a lot of this stuff and trying to build out systems whereby the, um, mortgage company can have a library of information and any examiner can go in there and pull it when they need it.Um, but that's the kinda change that we need, and so I'm probably dreaming but, um-if we were talking rainbows and unicorns, and if you follow me on LinkedIn, this is not new news.It's not.No, it's not.Um, it's not even new news for the people in my house.My, my kids and my husband have been poking me a lot lately, um, you know, with some taglines about, um, not providing paper, uh, during the mortgage transaction.But that is where I think we need to get.We just need more people kicking and s- screaming and pushing and pulling and, you know, saying, "Hey, we're gonna, we're gonna make real radical change."So I think- Yeah.radical change and impact are my 2 words this year.Yeah, I love that you say that though, because I do think that a lot of industries make things a lot simpler than mortgage is.And I do realize that, you know, there are certain mortgages that take a lot of moving parts, right?Not everybody's built the same.Um, I do think that, you know, on the front end paper side, right?'Cause you're also talking about a lot of the backend paper.I do think we'll see in the near future with programs like, uh, you know, well, with credit in general, right?We can see income on a credit report now.Like, they can actually access those types of things.Asset information can be discovered.Mm-hmm.And, you know, for your simplified loans, like your Fannie Maes, your, your FHAs, and, and, and c- uh, you know, your Freddie Macs, um, I do believe, you know, that we're getting closer to a point where you can almost just push a button and get somebody qualified.Yeah.Right?I, I think we're getting closer to that, and I think we will see it, uh, in our generation as, as, uh, uh, in the original generation, right?Not their generation, Kevin.We need this in the next couple years.Yeah.Well, I think it's gonna happen in, in the nextI genuinely believe that.I do, I do.I think we will.Well, and that's where it all starts.It's source data, right?Yep.Yep.That's it.So why are we collecting a bank statement when we can get that info- That's already there.immediately from the financial institution?That's it.Exactly.Um, and we really lived that.We lived that for many years.Yep.We embodied that a lot, um, you know, and the, uh, owner of, uh, Mid-America, or Click & Close, formerly known as Mid-America, he was a big cheerleader for that.And I- He's an advocate, for sure.Yeah, I do, um, thank him for kind of, you know, planting that seed in us.Yeah.Um, same with e-notes.E-notes are there.Let's adopt e-notes.Everyone go put your aggregators.Get it up on paper.Right?I remember the, uhWhat was it?Scotsman guy that think he was on there.Yeah.And it's like, "Jeff Bodie's getting tough on paper."But I love that because we have to innovate- Whoo!and change.And let me tell you something, what a great time it was.I remember, you know, when COVID hit, we were already prepared for e-docs, right?Like, we were already closing loans electronically.We were ahead of the curve and, you know, that was because of his innovation, uh, in that.I think we were one of the first lenders at the time to actually record an electronic, you know, document mortgage, which was awesome.Yeah.And my team was a part of that, right?You know, so, um, you're right.He did instill that.Like, we've got to make changes, uh, and, and disrupt this inter, uh, uh, this, uh, industry.And I think that's what you're talking about too.And, Gemma, I think you're one of the people that is, you know, making the push to disrupt, uh, and we need that.We need more people out there like Gemma Pacchiano that care so much.And she doesn't just care about the industry but cares about the consumers, right, and the client experience, uh, because that's what it's all about, you know.So we want to make things easier for people and we want to get away from, you know, those days of, "Man, I, I don't like working with this originator because they keep coming back and asking me for the same thing over and over and over again."Why is that?Mm-hmm.That's because of the disconnect with the things that you're talking about right here, right?So, um, I know you got some other cool projects.Uh, could we talk about any of that?I, I know you're working on, you know, maybe something behind the scenes?Yeah, a little bit.Like, we haven't gone live live.People in our circle know, so I might be working on a little project with a little buddy and, you know, some other people in the, in our peer community, um, you know, to get out there and do some education.So, uh, we have not gone live.I think me and her might be going live in a couple of weeks with our project, so that- Okay.That'll be exciting.So look for something, um, a- an education, um, for our consumers- That's it.um, coming soon.I love that.So, you know, if you see Gemma's name come across on something, go check it out.And that's why I dropped her link here, uh, for LinkedIn.This is where you can find Gemma.She's on other places, uh, but she's very vocal on LinkedIn.You'll see a lot of posting from her about exactly what we're talking about here on the show.Uh, and it's all for a good cause, right?It's to change this industry for the better, to get us heading in, uh, the right direction, and to make things easier, right?Because, to be quite frank with you, this industry hasn't been easy.And I think the other one, and, and this is a big elephant in the room is, you know, the bringing the cost down because, you know, unfortunately costs have gone up.I mean, everything costs more but, as you mentioned, it's not because the industrythe, the lenders are making more money.We're not, right?No.Uh, it's just because inflation has gone up and the cost of the goods that it takes to qualify the mortgage have increased.Mm-hmm.And unfortunately that has to be passed on or we can't provide mortgages, right?Like, we have to be able to pass on those costs.Or maybe we can find alternative resources, uh, that can do away with some of those costs and put us in a better position so that we are moving forward, uh, in creating better experiences.Yeah.Yeah.That's- So I don't know if anyone can see the chat, but my lovely husband is watching today.He is not in the mortgage industry.He can see what he said because he hears me say it over and over, he, he could be our advocate for our industry without being in it.But yes, no more pay stubs.Like, we don't want pay stubs and we don't want bank statements.So that's my joking way of saying, like, let's bring the industry digital.I love it.Hey, Adam.Uh, good to see you here on the backend.I just threw you a, a chat too.And by the way, if you guys have any questions for Gemma, feel free, uh, to drop them in the chat.Um, we're always here to answer those live.But, uh, uh, at the end of the day, I also know we're running a little bit short on time.Mm-hmm.What did we not tackle today that we should have?Um, you know, I feel like my, my story's been told and I thank you for that.Um, uh, I think that, you know, there's a lot of things coming at us as an industry, as a society.Um, a lot of technology, a lot of, you know, government headlines.And I know for me that, um, as a steward of our industry, it's constantly learning.Um, and so, you know, what is my trick to becoming a COO overnight or, you know, what is my trick to all of a sudden talking to 27 examiners over a two year period when I've never done that?It's just learning.It's learning- Yeah.It's reading, it's asking, it's connecting.Um, and so there's no magic.Um, it's just a lot of studying.And so if I have any advice for anybody out there, um, just continue to study your craft and, you know, keep asking questions, pushing, pushing the narrative, pushing what you're passionate about.Gemma, you know, relentless pursuit for knowledge and there to serve the people, right?To make processes better, to improve our industry, to improve the client experience, and, uh, uh, again, it's just been an absolute pleasure, uh, having the opportunity to, to work a lot of that time with you side by side in the trenches and see you, you know, grow up to become the person that you are today.And, uh, I'm just proud to f- call you friend.So, you know, thank you so much, uh, for joining in today.And hey, guys, you know, if, uh, you know, you wanna see Gemma come back for a part 2, drop a comment.Uh, you know, and let us know.We'd love toUh, we'd love to hear from you.Also, again, if you wanna find Gemma, she's at LinkedIn, @JemmaPasciano, and, uh, go over there and check out her page.Make sure to follow, and if you were interested in any of the topics that were covered, I promise there's a whole lot more over there than what we had the time- Mm-hmm.to cover over here.So, uh, Gemma, anything else you wanna say?Uh, any other, uh, information you wanna throw out there, like, for, for getting in touch with you before we wrap up today?Yeah, no, just LinkedIn.Like, I've been super pumped up on LinkedIn.I think it's a great place to network internally in our industry.Um, or text message.My phone number is everywhere.Um, I saw someone say this the other day, we don't share our phone numbers enough.It's public.My, my phone number is public, so text messages are great as well.But, um, you know, just thank you so much, Devin, and, you know, um, just interesting how life comes full circle, and just thankful- I know.for people like you and that I've grown up with in the industry.Amen.Amen.Well, guys, again, as always, thank you for stopping in today.Keep coming back and learning from amazing people like Gemma Pasciano with Legend Lending.A great friend of mine and now a great friend of yours too.So, um, hey, by the way, don't forget to like, comment, subscribe, and if you wanna see Gemma back- Mm-hmm.Right?Don't hesitate, right?Just, uh, just drop it in the comments and we'll bring her here.So thanks again for coming in today, guys, and on the next time, we will see you.

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