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Green Shoots & Big Shifts is hosted by Reetu Gupta, who started the show to have open, hopeful conversations about what it really takes to make sustainability part of how we live, lead, and work.
Each week, she talks with people doing innovative, meaningful work, turning ideas into action. From startup founders and corporate change-makers to community leaders - reimagining how business, society, and the planet can thrive together.
These are stories about innovation, collaboration, possibility, and the everyday shifts that move us toward a more abundant and resilient future.
you're listening to Green Shoots and Big Chefs
the show that spotlights the people and ideas
transforming our world for the better I'm your host
Reetu Gupta in every episode
I'll be talking with innovators and trailblazers
who are reimagining
our relationship with our planet earth
whether it's a small spark of innovation
or a sweeping shift in how we live and work
we'll explore the stories that give us hope
and the actions making a difference together
we are planting seeds of change and driving big shifts
for a healthier abundant sustainable future
the podcast I am your host
Reetu Gupta and with me we have Zach Plopper
from Surfrider Foundation welcome
welcome Zach very very
excited to have you on the podcast
thanks Reetu I'm excited to be here awesome so um
just just for background to introduce so our listeners
know whom they're talking to
if you could give us your background
and walk us through your journey from what I
remember like early in San Diego County where you
love to serve
and be near the ocean do where you are today um
if you could walk us through your journey that would be
great yeah absolutely
so I'm the senior environmental director
at the Surf Rider Foundation
and we're a grassroots organization
that's dedicated to the
Protection of the world's ocean waves and beaches
for all people through a powerful activist network and
I'll get more into to what we do at
Surf Rider later but
I've really dedicated my my career to the
the conservation of our coasts
and an ocean I grew up right by the ocean
in Solana Beach
North San Diego County in in Southern California
super grateful for being able to walk to the
to the waves and the sand which really is is
why I got into the work that I do
my neither of my parents surf
my dad's from the Midwest um
but they love the beach and like I said I could
they could open the door and tell me to
to go play and that's where I would go I was a kid
um surfing just seemed like a really natural
activity to to start this was
the late 80s so you know
it wasn't as big of a sport as it is today but there was still a lot of people doing it
especially around the
the beaches near my house and so I saw all the
cool kids surfing and decided that's really what I
I wanted to do so I I started
surfing at about 9 years old after years of just boogie boarding and playing in the water
um and I mean it's really something I
continue to do today uh 36 years later
and not many weeks have gone by where I haven't gotten in the ocean
I started actually competing when I was like 10 or
11 years old as in in competitive surfing um contests
and did that through elementary
school and a junior high school and high school I started doing some professional
events and got sponsored and
that allowed me to travel to really cool places
um Mexico throughout Europe
South America and so at a pretty young age I got to
get out of the Southern California bubble and
experience different cultures and in different places
and that was it was all through surfing
that allowed me to do that I
went to did my undergrad at UCSD
University of California San Diego and LA Jolla
it just seemed like such a natural
fit for me even though I grew up just a few miles
up the coast there but I knew that to be a surfer
and go to university that was definitely
the place to be right on top of the bluff at Blacks
Beach which is one of the most iconic
surf spots in the United States um
and all sorts of great waves around there and
great programs at school that had a lot to do with the ocean
so I actually started off as a biology major uh
and pre med and got my butt kicked academically uh and
I kind of lost interest
um it was really challenging
I don't think I was quite ready yet I actually
went abroad and studied in northern Spain
my junior year and kind of put the sciences aside
and I studied
Spanish art and architecture when I was there and
the uh subject of urban planning
is really baked in to architecture and and art
at least in the curriculum
at the university I was at and I noticed that UCSD
had an urban planning program
and that really interested
me I was really interested in why you know
what what's the difference of the built
environment that creates
the kind of lifestyle and culture in European cities
compared to the sprawling
Southern California landscape you know people and
the town I was in walking everywhere there's kids and
elderly people hanging out at night in the plaza
and it's just this outside real communal
atmosphere and it actually really
conservation too because the cities and towns are
pretty dense and then outside of that it's nature it
spares all that space'cause everybody lives
relatively on top of each other in their apartments
but it allows
all that open space that's super accessible
that really interested me and I I studied undergrad
UCSD urban planning
and then I went to graduate school UCLA and and
continued um continued that work and
and urban planning and all the while
surfing and being by the ocean actually didn't apply
to a single university
east of the 5 Freeway and that's the our major
north south freeway that runs
along our coastline here in California it kind of
surfings like brought me everything and broadened
my perspectives
in the world but it's also like kind of kept me very
focused on I need to be by the ocean
I need to be by the water
I need to do something with the water
and so my second year at UCLA
I did my capstone project
with an organization called Wild Coast
I had a friend that worked
there and that's a non profit that does a
coastal ecosystem conservation
in California Mexico and and other parts of
Latin America and
that internship turned into a full time job I was at Wildcoast
for close to 15 years all the way from
managing programs on the ground to associate director
and then in in 2,020 I joined Surf Rider
as the senior environmental director
so that's kind of the fast recap of what got me here
to where I am and and
more or less why I do the work that I do I love it like you were able to
intertwine your passion for the ocean and the work
that you did both at by coast and now it's
a Surf Rider Foundation can you
tell us more about what what you do at Surf Rider
Foundation what's the mission what's the goal
yeah so like I said our our mission's to to
protect the world's ocean waves and beaches
for all people through a powerful activist network and
so where we do the work
it's our ocean waves and beaches who do we do it for
for everyone and how do we do it it's through
our powerful activist network so
we're chapter based organization we have more than 250
chapters and student clubs around the country
and these are boots on the ground
concerned about local issues at their local beaches
and then my job and and my colleague's
job is really to scale
that effort up so we can make systemic changes
and so we work across five initiatives so it's
reducing plastic pollution in our oceans it's during
that the water is clean
when we get to the beach so we're safe when we
swim and play on our coasts
it's to protect ocean habitats and ocean ecosystem
it's to protect
beach access'cause what good is any of this if you can't
get to the coastline and then
is combating climate change on our coasts
and adapting to its inevitable impacts and so it's
we cover a lot there but we have an incredible team
we have about 85 staff around the country so from
Hawaii to Puerto Rico Maine to Washington
and so many places in between
we have a new chapter in Alaska we work in the
lakes we work on the Gulf um so we
I consider us the surf rider as the
the strongest and the largest organization
that's really dedicated
to our coastline there's a lot of ocean groups
and there's a lot of terrestrial groups
but we really work that nexus between
the coast and the ocean and
part of our real ethos is
enjoyment of these spaces as well
and so we're unique in that
respect that we really represent
people that enjoy our coastlines
yeah so it's not just surfers it's fishers it's
just people that love nature
it's me coastal communities
it's really you know this is our coastline
is one of the most important things to Americans
no matter where they are
people at some point go to the beach
whether that's in Hawaii or whether that's in
Lake Michigan or whether that's in Florida
or Southern California or anywhere in between
it's really
a a big part of our American culture that we often
kind of forget about as well and so
you know we work really on the front lines
to ensure that it's it's protected for everybody
yeah I really I really
like it and it resonates like we go out to oceans
or in my case I love the forest as well to
enjoy to be to be able to
enjoy the natural beauty to be able to enjoy and then
it looks like your organization
is doing the hard work to preserve it for everyone
as you look back you know
your time at Surf Rider or even beyond are the
are there any projects that stand out that you would
you know you are proud of yeah um a lot
unfortunately I've
I've been able to be a part of some very
really successful work I know
starting with my early work and with Wild Coast um
a lot of that work was focused in Mexico
and this is work trying to
protect these really large intact coastal ecosystems
and so the Baja California Peninsula
you know immediately below
California is home to some of the largest
desert wilderness coastlines left really on the planet
you know intact desert wilderness coastlines
looking at hundreds of miles
without any sort of development whatsoever
mangrove forests coastal dunes
wetlands coral reefs sea turtle nesting beaches
really incredible
wildlife and really incredible habitats
and my first job was actually to try to figure out how to
protect these areas uh huh so
building off my my graduate school studies
where I looked at different conservation
approaches to different types of places we determined
at Wildcoast that direct land purchases
would be the most effective
um way to to uh protect that coastline
and I'll add this was within a federally
protected area already within Mexico but
it's not enough and it's not just right
there it's same in
California United States you need layer upon layer of
tools and so
um we actually were able to to purchase about
40 miles of coastline and over 50,000 acres
um hmm and so just this large scale
um spaces that we know are gonna be protected
uh for generation come was really really well it was a
really educational experience for me that's kind of
my second graduate program essentially was
doing that work um
and then being able to take so many lessons
Learned from that work and apply it
all over you know and I
continue to pull from that again and
in addition to that work in Mexico I
helped the state of California
improve the management of its marine
protected area network and so California
has one of the world's largest
integrated network of marine protected areas that span
more than um
uh 280,000 acres across the coastline of California
um with a lot of challenges around management
and imperfect policies
and you know it's it's hard to educate people on
protected spaces in the water
particularly that doesn't have a right
Yellowstone or Yosemite
where you go through a gate to enter
right so I Learned a ton through that process
and to see these marine protected areas thriving
when I was a kid the reefs
around my house were really depleted of wildlife uh huh
that's from decades of overfishing
and since these marine protected
areas were established in California back in 2,012
uh there's been
changes and now these these reefs are thriving
with lobster and white sharks and sea turtles and
it's been really incredible
to see those ecosystems rebound so I take a lot of
joy and knowing that I was a part of that and
and then hmm yeah I was doing work like that
I really focused on protected area management
cause I Learned that okay you can draw lines on a map
but if there's not enough management
and that's from local users of those spaces
all the way up to the agencies in charge
then they're just
what are called paper parks they just exist on paper
but in reality they're not doing anything and so
I was really able to
learn from these experiences working on the ground
seeing the challenges
that have really got me to where I am today in conservation
and able to apply that really
across all the work that we get to do at at Surf Rider
yeah that's a that's a really hopeful
great story about the reef
getting repopulated with sea life etcetera
you talked about having good management
strategies like for our listeners
like even if they're not in marine conservation
are there any like top
two or three strategies that you would say
worked and it might be different like
I know you've worked in Mexico you've worked in California in different
areas it might be different by different areas but
yeah looking
to see if there were particular strategies
that were more effective than others
yeah I think well first off like
all they all come with their challenges there's no one
perfect tool
and this is played out and really everywhere
that I've worked so
trying to protect hundreds of thousands of acres
that are within a federally protected area in Mexico
has a lot of similarities with trying to
protect one state park in California
and so ultimately
at the end of the day I think there's two things that
are the most powerful and that is
stewardship that is local stewardship
that's on the ground communities
that are invested in the Protection of those spaces
and then there's being adaptive again ecosystems
habitats and wildlife and human interactions
with those spaces
change over time and those spaces have to adapt
it's shifting migratory corridors
we're seeing that with gray whales
in California right now uh huh
there's changes in feeding areas and aggregation sites
of different species sea level rise is gonna change
our coast our wetlands particularly
right and so so these tools and whatever
conservation regime
has been established for a place needs to be
continuously with constant input from users
without that and they're gonna be ineffective
so it is it's really layer upon layer
upon layer right we're right now seeing
in protected
areas across the United States being weakened
by our federal administration
and the weakening of regulations or selling off public
land so just by having a national forest
clearly isn't enough we see poaching in our marine
protected areas off the coast of California so
just calling in a marine protected area is not enough
right there's man pressures that surrounds
just about everywhere that we work
uh huh and climate change adds a really
big level of of complexity on on top of this so
we have to you know whatever whether it's a state park
a national park a private you know reserve
through direct land purchases
you know those need easements
on top of it they need an engaged they need policies
that strengthen enforcement or strengthen management
but again most
important is that there's a the local community is
invested that there's buying and that they are are
continuously
being involved in the management of that and then that
protected
area is is looked at you know through an adaptive lens
of okay what's changing
here and you have to be open to those those shifts so
ultimately it doesn't matter like what tool is used
as long as it's underlined
by local stewardship and and adaptive
yeah you've talked about
involving local community and
local stewardship what does what does that look like
yeah it's a
again that's the I think that's the hardest part of conservation
and something that is messed up all the time
I don't go a week without hearing that like
you know this organization forgot to
include this community or
or there was no tribal engagement or
you know someone wasn't invited to the table
ultimately it you know you need you need relationships
um you can't just show up in a community
without having a relationship and
and assume they're gonna be on the same page
so I got thrown
into this on day one I'm straight out of graduate
school and I'm sent down to
southern Baja California and Mexico to meet with um
the commission for National Protected Areas and local
local fisherman and you know I'm the the young
gringo that's sent down there and and
extraordinarily uncomfortable for me and
for everybody around me too and
it was really eye opening
and that was just the beginning I was
doing that work then for 15
years and became a lot more comfortable
with being in uncomfortable situations but um
you know what I saw really is the people that are on the front lines
of conservation the people on the ground
it's not in a capital building
it's not in an agency's office conservation
starts on the ground and the people on the ground
and so whether ranchers and fisherman in Mexico or
tribes or commercial fisherman and women in California
that's who you have to engage
and you have to do it early and
it's got to be on their time not your time
right and that you know it's
you might have a grant deadline but they don't care
you know and they're gonna ask you know
what I have to get this done in six months or you need me all of a sudden
for this we've never met yeah
yeah so it's something to be really mindful of is how do you
you gotta constantly be establishing relationships
I've seen Ngos get kicked out of communities
both dance
the United States and in Latin America cause they
they show up with an agenda that doesn't align
with the community's interest
so some of the lessons I've really Learned is
it's critical to engage at the earliest point
at the earliest point um
I've seen projects that haven't
and then they're rushing to get community engagement
at the 11th hour and it's just not going to be
successful
so that's where those long standing relationships
really help
you have to invest in the people go out of your way
give them the time you know provide lunch provide
something you know and that stuff can go
but but demonstrating that you're there for them
you're investing for them
is critical it's really important to ask questions
and prepare to listen and sometimes that's
all you need to do is listen
having listening sessions public forums you know where
you can hear concern
not social media you know it's it's got to be right
and so asking questions listening learning
that's really important making space for dissent
not everyone's gonna agree on everything and right
if everyone in your coalition does agree on everything
then you probably don't have the right people hmm
it's you're gonna need those different perspectives
and and they exist working on
marine protected area management in California was
um really collaborative across
all agencies all types of ocean users lifeguards to to
um commercial fishing businesses tribes and surfers
and really everyone in between
and there's a lot of times we I
disagreed but that was good because that's what drove
solutions
and then always need to be asking who's missing
too you know every time
you get your community together
it's OK who's not here cause guaranteed
some important user isn't there um and uh
and local leadership is is fundamental as well
and that's something that I've really
come to understand lately is without a local leader
uh huh community
you're not gonna be able to get much done
and that leader needs to be interested
and have the time and be supported as well but
we can't just leave it up like we can't just leave it up to
surf riders chapters to
get the job done at the end of the day we know we need
you know off paid leadership to help them you know
navigate the challenges
whether it's policies or whatever
threat that their coastlines facing so it's kind of
gathered
little bits of this throughout all my work and yeah
always learning
but it's it has to come and start with the community
yeah that makes a lot of sense I can
like you you mentioned different kind of stakeholders
I can imagine sometimes
sometimes the challenge is economics sometimes
the challenge could be cultural it could be different
I was curious like how involved
are the stakeholders looks like you have long standing
relationships with these stakeholders
how how involved they are in the upstream
like planning or grant writing
even before you get awarded something
yeah yeah that's a great question
our chapters really very you know they represent
these different communities across the country
and until I got my current role at Surf Rider I hadn't
realized
now I hadn't really been around the United States
that much and
in five years I've been with Surf Rider I've
been I've been to Texas to to Maine to New Hampshire
Hawaii Oregon Washington
Florida and so many places in between um
and I've seen like OK like culturally
all these places are very very very distinct and
my uh kind of myopic
Southern California vision was like really widened
through this work and through traveling to these sites
and meeting with our chapters
I've really gotten to know a lot of these leaders
really well
and at the end of the day they're deeply passionate
about the work
but they do have they do have jobs
you know they do have their own they're affected
economically they're you know they
surf rider is a priority
for them but there's also other competing priorities
and and we recognize that as an organization
you know that's why we have
the staff and the structure that we have is to really
support and
these chapters so some chapters are extremely strong
Ventura Chapter where I live is very robust
they get funding from
a variety of different sources from private foundations
to Patagonia to do the incredible work that they
our San Diego chapter is
really strong we have really strong chapters in
in Florida and um
all really you know all all over
but yeah some need a lot less support
um directly than others
and and some more so but at the end of the day
you know my job is to help us
marching in the same direction and
looking for opportunities to
scale up these local challenges and local solutions
to have broader you know systemic change
our chapters do a lot of beach clean UPS
they find plastic pollution then they
take the information they gather
of what types of trash they're seeing on the beaches
then they'll go pass at a local level
whether that's a ban plastic bags or straws
upon request when people go into restaurants maybe
bands on the sale
or the release intentional release of balloons
that's a big one lately
that all stems from what they find on the beach
and then they work together with a regional
manager in their region and other chapters
to see maybe there's an opportunity to pass a state law
that addresses this
a local ban a local Bill that bans
plastic bags for example will affect you know thousands
to tens of thousands
maybe hundreds of thousands of people
when you get into the state level
you're looking at millions
you know and then right the next
is then to tip the scales nationally where you're
affecting 345 million people and so it's
it's that scaling where those chapters are
super critical cause if we can show we can
if you can show a governor that you can pass
a plastic pollution reduction policy in multiple
cities in a state then you're probably gonna be
successful doing that at the state
level and so that's how that
and then we help
truly grassroots right absolutely it
it really is that's the
the foundation of our work is is grassroots and
we've seen to be really really effective
and especially in the plastic pollution
front that's a it's a real like clear example of
how each cleanup can lead to
and we've tried to pass national policies
and we have to some limited extent
or federal policies that reduce plastic pollution
the administrative changes make that challenging
but that said Florida is a state
we've passed lots of local legislation and and
um state level legislation as well to
protect our coast through
from plastic pollution being one um different
climate policies as well so it's you know
it's and as politicized as our world is right now
this work is actually really bipartisan cause everybody
agrees
at the end of the day they want a clean beach to go to
yeah yeah it true truly is um
I so just you know I think what I'm getting is it is
work that people
you know people are passionate about but it's hard
because it's so complex and so multi layered
how do you keep yourself
and your teams and the volunteers
motivated to keep doing the work yeah
and they are passionate leaders you know
sometimes passion is not enough right absolutely
it's well
there's power in numbers right and there's when they
when they are connected
into this network there's kind of an inherent uh
inspiration associated with that we have
you know like I said
250 chapters in student clubs and so
uh every year we go do regional chapter conferences
in each region
all of our California chapters will get together
all of our Oregon and Washington
chapters will get together
all of our Hawaii chapters will get together
that's a really good example of when you get to
and they see that there are people completely aligned
and fighting for the same thing as they are
it's really inspiring
and so we recognize that we have to
keep our network intact and keep them together
later this week
we have 185 chapter and student club representatives
meeting with their
congressional leaders in Washington d C through our our
10th anniversary for Recreation Hill Day and so
that's another moment where they know their
something bigger and I think that's really important
and so we really try to
continuously be engaging with their chapters
leveraging them getting them together
sharing experiences finding opportunities
to to mobilize and so I think that's
and then you know it's like obviously
they're all passionate
about the coast they're all passionate about the ocean
yeah they're not perfect but they enjoy the beach
they enjoy the outdoors
whether they're in Maine or Florida or Texas or
Hawaii and so there's kind of this uh
you know they're not gonna like what else
what else are they gonna do let it
let it you know that's
for me it's like people ask why do I do this work
it's the most important next to my family
the a healthy ocean and a
healthy coastline is the most important thing to me
so how can I
not be involved and how can I not be engaged
I think a lot of our network
kind of really feel the same way like it is their duty
to protect what they love
and so we really try to showcase those stories too we
shared we do chapter profiles continuously
through kind of our different uh
you know report outs to the public or on our website
so we you know we really try to showcase
the local leadership
on the ground leadership the people behind this effort
and that's what makes us different too
there's a lot of real big coastal or ocean
Ngos out there that
it's hard to see who's behind it you know
we try to make it clear
that like no these are local people on the ground
that are are doing this work day in and day out
yeah so important it that resonates a lot like if you
are involved if you are
invested you wanna keep doing it
and who doesn't love the ocean
like I love the ocean it is
I love to go to the ocean and just sit there it's so
beautiful and calming and you know so ever changing
so um anything
else you wanna wanna share with the with the listeners
I know many of them will be ocean lovers here
anything you wanna share with them anything
else yeah I mean it's challenging times these days
we're you know we're seeing
a lot of threats to our coasts it can be it can be dire
but I think we also have to
remember that the past wasn't always better
I live in Ventura uh this is where the first
offshore oil drilling happened
way back in the late 19th century
and if you look at photos of the Ventura coastline
in the early 20th century
it was covered with oil derricks
all along the sand offshore same's
true down in Huntington Beach
there's some iconic pictures
of the beach in Huntington Beach and like they're
1920s and it's just covered in oil derricks you know
and and now it's beautiful like I mentioned too
I grew up there wasn't a lot of wildlife on the reefs
that I served and now those reefs are right
driving and so
there's things in the future that will be worse
but there's things in the future
that will be improved as well you know and some decades
from now we're gonna look back and be like
I can't believe we powered our
economy with oil what were we thinking or
we we built sea walls all along our beaches
like what were we thinking or I can't believe we
take out food in Styrofoam containers
what were we thinking you know just like
yeah I used to smoke what were we thinking so it's
there's it's gonna get better
there's gonna be things that definitely
get better we have to work hard towards those
but I feel like if we envision a future
without the things that we like the oil
and the sea walls and the Styrofoam we
envision a future those we can take incremental
steps to get to a more sustainable future but
you know at the end of the day what we can do is get out
on the field get outside
what I would tell any young
conservationist is like the theory is
important but the practice is really essential
you gotta be willing to be uncomfortable
listen and learn be open minded
never assume that anyone's in charge or
often times there's no one in charge
you know there's no leader
and that leader is gonna be you or that
that leader is gonna be somebody
in the community where you're working
and also to take one thing at a time like don't
try to save the world in one fell
swoop you're gonna get really discouraged
but play to your strengths
um you know and just take it one step at a time
I'm confident that we can create a sustainable future
for ourselves and and have a healthy ocean and coast
yeah yeah great advice and
I'm hopeful and thanks for sharing
that example of where
the coral reef was repopulated so it can happen
like they can be positive forward movement
with enough hard work and effort
so this has been great I love the work you're doing
and your passion for it and I've Learned a lot today
if you know I always like to ask one word
that you would like to leave the list
with what would that one word be
that's that's challenging I'd say
one word would be engage
uh huh engage with nature and engage
with the process to
protect it if you don't get engage with nature
you're not gonna care about it if you do engage
and you don't engage with the process to
protect it it's not gonna be protected
and so I think that's what you can carry with you um
and remind yourself of when
when you're giving up hope
just engage get outside and then
appreciate it and then do something about it
yeah I love it love it engage towards
towards ship right it's it's so important um
thank you so much Zach
for your time today and I also want to thank the listeners
for joining us today thank you Ritu
yeah really appreciate it same here thanks