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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
Welcome to Beyond the Message, the podcast where we take the weekly teaching at Christ Community Chapel and bring it into your week. Each week, I sit down with my friends and with ministry leaders at CCC to laugh usually a little bit, maybe a little more than others, reflect a good bit, and to figure out how to live out what we are learning. If you didn't hear the message yet, no big deal. Go ahead down to the description, find the message there, listen to it, and then jump back over here and join in on this conversation. This week, I'm joined by my name is Stacey DiNardo, and I I should probably say that.
And I'm joined by Brooks Montgomery, Sara Koons, and Jamie Hewitt. Hello. Hey, guys. Hello. This is week 10.
Crazy. We made it. We made it. More to come on that. But first of all, to just get things going, I thought with it being week 10, we would share just briefly a funny or something that stuck out to you that was an off the mic moment that our listeners or viewers might not have been witness to that, you thought was great?
What do you think? I think, for me, it would be the one that comes to my mind right now is Brooks' genuine PTSD over Jimmy's icebreaker when Jimmy was the, I think, the week two host and asked us to reveal the last song that we had listened to. And And Brooks was scarred, but yours was good. You guys, but it has come up multiple times. But for it's all the off camera moments where Brooks begins to sweat, and he's like before we're filming, he's like, I need to click on the sermon or something.
So in case that comes up again He has said that. He's like, I'm gonna make sure the last thing I've listened to is something from CC's. Every single time I close out Spotify now, I make sure to click on Hulu, a sermon, just in case. So Jimmy Kozy's rent free position in Brooks' head for eternity is is my favorite author. On that note, this is not my takeaway because I have another one, but is just the fact that Jimmy's been on this podcast, maybe six times.
I feel like more than half the time, and yet, we refuse to let him be in any Beyond the Message pictures. Nor will we ever. Nor will he ever this month. Even if he posts it the next go around. Mhmm.
Yep. And get to know Jimmy. He's a great guy. He is. Get to know you will know that this is an appropriate comment to make Yes.
If you know Jimmy Kozy. Yes. And that's probably my takeaway is just, you know, I feel like thank you, Jimmy Kozy. Yeah. Thank you.
Really, this has been, in some way, shape, or form, a podcast not only, for the church, but really perhaps even by Jimmy Kozy. By Jimmy Kozy. The mastermind behind the scenes. So this is your one moment. Thank you, Jimmy.
This is your moment. I mean, I've been pretty fascinated by the amount of time we've talked about our shoes. Shoes have a different topic of Whether or not the dogs are out or not. What do you mean by that, Sara? Okay.
So dogs would be your your toes, your feet. Mhmm. And so we all decided that they would We need to cover the feet. Cover the feet. That got decided early on before we started.
It felt personal. Early dog. With JV. You know, I I I owned some onus in that too from, my dogs being out once. Yes.
And it was not pretty. And we have tried multiple times to almost, like, coordinate, but we haven't We've never successfully done it. Today, I thought this would be the day. I was like, it's week 10. Everyone's gonna be like, alright.
Out of four. I did. Next year. Okay. Next year.
Okay. I gotta mention one that is a little bit tangential, but it involves a picture. So it was inspired by the fact that I was so impressed with Jamie's proposal. He also yes. Oh.
Jamie's proposal to Carolyn was amazing. Okay. Well, yesterday, I believe, was your fifteenth wedding anniversary. It was. Hey.
And here's a photo, folks, that was posted. I saw that. And I did have permission to talk to the production team of Jamie and Carolyn's son dud. Their wedding day. Guard your hearts, everyone.
Jamie's I know not everyone can see this photo because we have listeners, but I would just like to describe the fact that Carolyn, his wife first of all, she is she is beautiful. She is a stunning woman. Yes. But I mean, on her wedding day Yeah. She is like knock your socks off a babe.
Yeah. Like, hands down. And then there's then there's Jamie. More of the babies. Then there's Jamie.
Jamie. I'll just gonna sum it up by saying it, like, it kinda looks like you're eight years old. He looks happy. You yeah. Right.
I think you could say that. Moving to the third person. He sure looks happy. Very happy to be marrying Carolyn. Yeah.
I mean, you do look like a teen groom. We don't know what's But I thought also just a way to say happy anniversary. Yes. Happy anniversary. Totally genuinely that, thank you.
Alright. I thought it was a beyond the message appropriate way to say happy anniversary. Thanks, Stacey. So yeah. Appreciate it.
Okay. Well, let's jump in. Again, a little easier than the pivot last week, but moving on from that. This is week 10, and I just wanna remind listeners as well that we have made the decision to bring it back. So September I wrote it down.
September 15, I believe, will be the next time an episode drops for Beyond the Message. Mark your calendars. Make sure to subscribe. Really thankful and grateful for, again, for you guys for the way that I know processing through the message in a deeper way has changed and grown me. And I think you guys have said the same, but also I think so many people that have been listening have shared that with us.
And that's what this was about. It's not about us. It's not about the number of people listening. It's about God using it in the lives of this church, of individuals in this church and hopefully hopefully collectively too. So, yeah, that is where we're at there.
But, recap from the teaching this week. So Pastor Joe is wrapping things up. He's in Exodus two verses 23 through 25. If you do wanna go look back at that and you're listening to to remind yourself, But what's happening here is this is about four hundred years after that promise has made has been made to Abraham about his descendants and and all the nations that would come from him. And through a series of people and generations from Isaac to Jacob to Joseph, The Israelites are in Egypt.
They began their time in Egypt, we would believe. We don't have anything else to believe other than probably a time of prosperity because they were related to Joseph. He was, you know, second to the king to the pharaoh. And, but now we see them in a season where they are, they're groaning. They're going, like, things are not good.
And yet we see God sees them, and he hears them and all that. So the points that pastor Joe said was what people feel, what God sees, and then what God does Mhmm. Out of that. And to start things off, what was it what was the takeaway that you had out of the teaching that just stuck with you? I think the end of the sermon, Pastor Joe was talking about grace Mhmm.
And the centrality of grace, how much we need grace, how it's the only thing that we need. It's the only hope and answer that we have. I feel like throughout the sermon, there were he really was giving a picture of at least the maybe two primary ways that we are prone to miss grace. One is, we think too much of ourselves. So life seems to be going good.
We think that we have everything under control. We just stop looking to God. We stop crying out. And then that prohibits us from receiving grace from God. And then the others, maybe we think too little of ourself.
We think that God is not listening to us, that he does not care about us, that he does not want us. So on one end, we tend to think we don't need God. And on the other end, maybe we miss grace grace because we think that God doesn't want us. So that was my takeaway as I was just listening to the sermon. Mhmm.
It's like, oh, man. He's really he's giving a clear picture as to how a lot of people will miss the grace that God is always freely offering. Yeah. That was I mean, I think so much of even just being reawakened perhaps to the beauty and wonder of grace. Yeah.
Like, for me, I just in last or listening to the sermon from pastor Joe, just sort of sensed that I think there's a danger for us to get familiar with grace and get very casual with grace. And even just the remind I mean, we sing the song Amazing Grace, not familiar grace, not casual. Like, there's a sense that the reason you and I have a promise to hold on to, that we have hope in our lives, that one day we're gonna be in union with Christ face to face, like that ultimate promise that we hold. All the promises that Abraham was able to receive from God, like, the reality is it's it's by grace. And just being, almost reawakened and reminded of the beauty of grace, the wonder of it, just kind of, being absolutely captivated by grace Mhmm.
And maybe awaken from at at least, perhaps I had a little bit of a casual, mindset of the grace that God gives and the importance when you're talking about promises, was just really impactful, for me personally. I think last week we talked about this idea of, we you can be around God, but not really know God. And I think when we know God, like, we have a deep relationship with him, that relationship changes everything. Right? I always talk about with kids, like, you have, your God goggles on.
So when you do that, it just changes your perspective on everything. You do invite grace into your life. You want God to be near, so you do groan out to Him and and and and know that He is near to you. So all those things that he kinda talked through, how the Israelites were feeling or what they did or just our even our, what both you and Jamie and Brooks, talked about this idea of maybe not, inviting grace into our lives. I think when you do have that relationship with God, you can do that better, and it allows you to see things differently.
And I was just, it was a good reminder of that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that tees up the clip really well because I I think this encapsulates, again, pastor Joe really saying some, again, kind of reawakening reminders and profound things about the gift of grace. So let's take a minute and watch that.
The crisis is a chance for for God to give us grace, and grace is what we need. Grace is what I need for the forgiveness of my sins to be sure, absolutely. But it's more than that, I think. I think grace is the great elixir for the human soul. Grace is the only thing powerful enough to actually change me into the man that I was made to be, that I'm not even close to.
But if I'm ever going to get closer, it's going to be grace that gets me there. And it's the same for you. And that means that every single crisis I have ever experienced in my life, every crisis I will experience from now until I die, is an opportunity for grace. Every crisis you experience is like a crack where God has the opportunity to pour in grace to your soul that your soul so desperately needs. I I think the idea of grace being something that we typically will invite when we are at our end.
Like, it feels almost embarrassing to go, I can't do this. I thought about, just something going on in my family this week where my daughter's going through something that's a little bit difficult and how it's so silly. It's like such a small thing for her and for me to ask for help in this, and yet how incredibly hard it was to go, I can't do this on my own. I actually have to say, can somebody else do this for me? You know, pastor Joe gave that van example of, like, digging out the van.
And and I think that's the reality, but how come we we are a people that our default nature is I can do it, I can earn it, I can do it myself, and that grace is the opposite of that and having to lay it down and go, I can't do it. God, you're the only one, and you have provided the only way through your grace. So I don't know. I think that picture of a crisis and how we can seek grace in that and and open ourselves to that is, there's a lot there. There's a picture of, though, what I think as Christians is is best for us, for sure.
Yeah. I I it was really interesting to me to think about, well, why is it Yeah. That we don't we don't freely take on grace. Like, even when he talked about he was embarrassed Yeah. You know, with the van, and that's why he told his neighbor, no.
You know, I got it. Thanks. So it led me to actually, look up, like, okay. What is the definition of grace? And it's God's unmerited favor.
And that word, unmerited Mhmm. It means I didn't Don't deserve it. I didn't deserve it. I didn't do anything to earn it. And that's just not Yeah.
As humans, It's not That's not kind of how we're wired. Right? We think that's our sin nature. We just Exactly. Like, we've gotta do it ourselves.
I've gotta do it. I'm gonna be independent. I'm gonna be my own god. Yeah. Right?
Yeah. So I thought that was really important for us to recognize that, yeah, We don't deserve this. But like you said, Brooks, that's what makes it so amazing. And it's and it's the reality that it's, you know, grace is available to all. Mhmm.
Right? It's the unmerited gift, but there is the sense that we have to respond to that, which goes Yeah. You know, I was thinking about this, like, Jesus never forces his crease on someone. Jesus never forces his healing, beg someone to accept it. Rather in the gospels, it's the people that humble themselves, the people that come to Jesus and recognize they're at the end of their wits.
They're in a mess of a situation, there's nothing that they can possibly do to restore it. Yeah. And they find themselves humbled at Jesus. And that those are the ones, right, who experienced the the miraculous Mhmm. Of grace in their life.
Well, this kinda tees up another thing I wanted to ask you guys about, because, you know, we hear from the Israelites or we hear God responding to the Israelites when they are groaning. But there's all of these years have gone by that we don't necessarily know what happened, but we can maybe kind of assume that initially there was prosperity, things were good. Pastor Joe made a comment of, like, you know, for him personally, I could say for myself, my health, my wealth, I would sum it up by saying my comfort leads me to a place where do you think it leads us to a place of this false sense of security and then maybe even a distance from God? And and why does it take why does it take a crisis? Why does it take a crisis or something being bad for us to recognize and see his grace?
I wish we could just always see it in the middle of our comfort when things are good. But, yeah, thoughts on that or yeah. Yeah. I was just thinking, I mean, at the heart of our of sin and our rebellion against God is is a desire to be in control. Mhmm.
Yeah. And when things are going well, when you're successful and comfortable, it can lead to the false illusion that you are in control. Mhmm. And so, yeah, to me, like, logically, it makes perfect sense that in those moments, we'd be like, oh, I can I kinda work? I I do pretty good as my own god.
Right. And then there are moments that even God in his mercy will lead us into to help us see Mhmm. That you actually are not. And, actually, you know, pastor Joe talks about that with Abraham and Isaac and the idea that, you know, Isaac had possibly begun to usurp God's position in Abraham's life. And actually, it was a it was an act of mercy and grace that God would lead them up the mountain together and say, hey, this is my place.
And for your good and for Isaac's good, you need to remember that. Mhmm. Yeah. So Yeah. Yeah.
At the same time, I think the the other thing to note about that passage of scripture where God is seeing the Israelites is the reality of his closeness to them always. So, you know, not only does he hear them, which means, you know, you're close to them, but in saying he sees them and he knows them. And, I mean, that's just amazing that we have a God that that is that close to us and knows so intimately Yeah. Everything. And that, again, should just open us up all the more to everything that we can have because of his grace.
Yeah. It's kinda like there's a there's a paradox. At one point in the sermon, Pastor Joe says, the promise will outlive you. Yeah. And in some cases, that means you don't receive Right.
The the fulfillment of it in the way that you want. And in some cases, that's like, oh, man. That's that sucks. Like, I kinda wish I got the end of that. Yeah.
And so it's the the the story, the promise is bigger than you. Mhmm. You are not at the center of it. Yeah. And you need to recognize your rightful place within that.
But then also, in the midst of that, that could make you think, oh, well, then then I'm just insignificant, and God doesn't care. But it's like God wants you to know that that's not true either. Right. And he's like, hey. This story is not about you.
Right. However, I I am close enough to hear your groanings. Mhmm. That I was just thinking of the intersection of that. Mhmm.
And maybe it feels almost like a paradox, but, you you know, I think God is the God of the impossible. It's like only he can hold both of those things in his hands. That's and and that's so much of even, like, God hearing and rescuing his people in Exodus. Mhmm. Christ, Matthew 11, like, there's one point where, Christ's heart is talked about.
And how is it talked about? Christ is his heart is gentle and lowly. Yeah. Right? Like, the the accessibility, the presence, the nearness of God to us, to rescue, to save us.
To Jamie's point, it's kind of the paradox of, dying to self is the only way you're going to experience that ultimate life in Christ. And it's going to feel at times like, yeah, it's going to it's going to feel like death, losing control, losing kind of your, sense of earning your worth and value, but only in that death to ourselves, the death to our effort, do we find ourselves becoming alive in the grace of God. Yeah. Yeah. I think it it does require humility for each of us.
Right? Like, I think even the concept of time, how we view it and how God views it. Because even when he was I mean, it's been four hundred years. Yeah. And when even pastor Joe kinda referred to I mean, my great great great grandfather was 200 years.
You know, how long does this be? And I think it is really good for us to recognize that our our our part in God's story is important. Like, he can use us, but it's also In the scheme of things. Yeah. It is a And it feels like a book.
Doesn't think about generational Yeah. Right. As as I that's my sense at least. I'm I get the sense that back in, you know, what we're reading in scripture, there was much more of a view of long term generational, just what God will do and and who people are in the length of, you know Yeah. I'm sorry.
Think if we have that sense of humility, it also allows us when we go through times of, like, prosperity Mhmm. And then, the paradox of, you know, the crisis, we don't Yeah. Do as much as the up and down. We just kinda are able to understand the perspective and the awareness to see and look to God in those moments without the need for being humbled. Right.
Like, can we Speak yourself. I think God says we need to be humble in order to receive his grace. Mhmm. And there's we can either be humble or be humbled. Yes.
Yes. And that's, like, the question is which which do you want? What was it gonna be? And and the and the necessity of it being such a daily recalibration for our hearts. Right?
Even when it's great, even when life is a mess, to be able to find yourself reminding yourself each day of your need for grace and the insane gift that it is. Mhmm. Like, you you very quickly, can find yourself days, weeks, months of just not reminding yourself of that on a daily sense. Yeah. I, Pastor Joe had a few different kinda drop the mic moments.
I actually talked to him about just, hey, what were your some of your takeaways? And he even mentioned the fact that there were these kind of revelations that he kept having that were these sidebars that he mentioned. One of those, and he's mentioned it one other time, I know, was just the reality that he was talking about Joseph's family and really the dysfunction and trauma that occurred over the course of the story of Joseph. Read it if if you haven't. But, you know, he made the point to say no level of dysfunction or trauma actually is going to offset God's promise.
And and I know personally, my husband has been one who's kind of wrestled through over this last decade just realizing a lot of dysfunction and challenges that he's experienced and how that's played out in his life. And, to be honest, I I you know, initially, upon him realizing that and us processing that as a couple, I feel like there was this parallelization that happened. And but as Christians, the reality is there's hope in that. And so wherever you are at and and, in that, if you are someone that this has happened to or you are experiencing it now, just don't let that shape, what how you see your future. Because, again, God's promises don't change.
So, yeah, I don't know if there's No. I I think that's super powerful because I think all of us, either whether in our own life or someone we know, have seen the devastating effects of generational sin. And it probably feels, at some point, hopeless because you're like, well, that's who I am, you know, as as a person. And I think that isn't true. I I specifically think about I I have two adopted children, and one of my daughters, Hannah, is from Korea, South Korea.
And, we got very limited information about her family background, but one of the things we did see is that both her birth parents were Buddhist. And I remember, a really kind friend coming to me in the midst of that and just saying, oh, Sarah. Isn't this cool how God, her coming into your family is now gonna impact every generation that comes after her? And I was just sort of I mean, it wasn't even something that was on my radar, but I was It was not on your radar at that time. Yeah.
Yeah. Right? No. But I was so impacted by that truth, and I think the fact is that's true for impacted by that truth, and I think the fact is that's true for all of us. The way that God intervenes in our lives and can change everything That's right.
About who our family is and who we are, and I think I mean, that's amazing grace. You know? That's awesome. So yeah. And you and it doesn't always seem like grace in the moment.
And I think even Joseph, like, you see chapter after chapter after chapter of brokenness. A lot of suffering. Where is this going? And in Genesis 50, Joseph will say to his brothers, what you meant or intended for evil, God meant and intended for good. And so all things, you know, for those who love God, like, he will work for our ultimate good in him.
Yeah. No. That's great. That's good truth. Well, I wanna kinda turn the corner to talk about any takeaways or things you wanna share with listeners as we think about, this message or even just this series in general.
Yeah. I think one thing I, I I have found myself thinking about, just the rule of grace as we all have. And I think in my flesh and my sin, sometimes when people experience grace, it bothers me. Right? In the sense, that when, you know, some someone's, kind of you know, I think it's easing our flesh to root that, hey.
Consequences play themselves out. And when someone gets to experience grace, I can find myself almost in some horribly cynical way, frustrated. Right? And I think that's just a good litmus test, even for myself, to look in a mirror and really say my understanding of grace and my understanding of my daily dependency on grace is immediately infused with a poison called pride, that thinks in some way, shape, or form I've risen above the need for grace, and when others experience it, and it, in a way, almost subtly bothers me, perhaps. Like, man, that's a moment just to really consider, how pride has infused my soul.
So that's one area, man. I was just thinking about, wanting to be on the front lines of celebrating grace, on proclaiming that grace is accessible. But, yeah, it's gotta be a response to us all. Yeah. Because I think the great poison for our souls and our understanding of grace, is pride.
Yeah. I'll jump in. I I feel like, you know, pastor Joe wrapped up talking about all of this really points to Christ. Christ is the center of the story. He is the one who brought us grace.
The Passover, which again was, leading up to the rescue of the Israelites from, Egypt, was kind of forward pointing as, you know, the final, plague there was that a son was gonna die unless you put the blood of a lamb around your door. And, forward looking to the fact that Jesus is Jesus is the answer. He is the one who has ultimately rescued us, and we see that when, John the Baptist says, behold, the Lamb of God has come as Jesus is there. And I just thought as, for everybody listening, if you are someone that needs to be reminded and see Jesus when you are reading scripture, no matter how old or how young you are, we have a resource we often point people to called the Jesus Storybook Bible, and I'm just gonna read because it's so beautifully written. This is the end of that Passover story of Israelites leaving Egypt, after, again, the Passover that happened.
And it says, and so that very night Moses and God's people fled out of Egypt and out of slavery. They were free at last. God's people would always remember this great rescue and call it Passover. But an even greater rescue was coming. Many years later, God was going to do it again.
He was going to come down once more to rescue his people. But this time, God was going to set them free forever and ever. And, that's such a reminder. It's what we all need. We need the hope of Jesus, and this is just a great resource if you've if you've not looked at it before or need that reminder on a more daily basis.
So Yeah. I don't know if a week goes by that I don't point somebody to this They're not. Yeah. There's there might be people listening who are, like, guilty. I know, Jamie.
Come on. You always tell us about the Jesus storybook Bible. But, yes, a really great resource. Before we close out, I just wanna give some shout outs. Jamie, Sarah, Brooks, and myself, we've had the privilege of being able to have this conversation most of these weeks, and so thankful for you guys.
But in many regards, I think we have the easy job. Yes. For sure. So I wanna shout out, first of all, Jimmy, We talked about Yep. Okay.
If you didn't, I was going to Yeah. Ken, for Bucky, Atlanta, all come in. I think those were the other folks that have sat in on these conversations. But really, again, they had the easy job too. And so really wanna shout out the, from Marcus.
And I think, yeah. Woo hoo. Marcus, Ben, Rima, Andy. I know I'm not saying all your last names. Hallie, Matthew as well.
All of them, they are the ones that put in the work and to make this get produced, to make this look good, to make this sound good, and to get it to you. And, we just get to sit here and have a conversation for a little bit. Easy to speak. That's right. So I'm so thankful.
I mean, not just for the work they do for this podcast, but that they do weekend, day in and day out. Yeah. They're incredible at what they do, and they're also really fun to work with. Like, this is so enjoyable, so thanks, guys. Yeah.
We do have a ton of fun. So thank you guys. We will be back in in a few weeks, but so thankful for you guys and for this conversation today. Thanks so much for tuning in to Beyond the Message before you leave. Don't forget to subscribe, so that you don't miss out on the episodes when we do come back in just a few weeks.
And all week long, we would love to provide you with content so that you can grow right where you are. On our CCC app, on our YouTube channel, or our website, you can find content there. And I just invite you to check it out, share it with friends or family. We look forward to seeing you next time.